← The Stephen A. Smith Show
The Stephen A. Smith Show
Full Show: Stephen A interviews conservative activist Riley Gaines | ET's Kevin Frazier updates us on impact of Immigration crisis in CA.
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Stephen A. Smith
What'S up everybody? Welcome to the latest edition of the Stephen A. Smith show. Coming at you at the very least three times a week over the digital airwaves and YouTube and of course iHeartRadio. As always, I'd like to pause and take a moment to thank my subscribers and followers for the continuing to support the show. We really, really appreciate the love the millions of downloads we received courtesy of iHeartRadio over the last few months. The 1.23 million in subscribers we've now eclipsed as well. Can't thank y' all for the love and support enough. Keep it coming and I'm gonna keep on coming to continue to like and follow the show. Get Get. Just click the bell to get notified for all of our newest content and you too shall be considered the latest member of the Stephen A. Smith show family. And while you're doing that, please don't forget to pick up a copy of my New York Times best selling book Straight Shooter, A Memoir of Second Chances and First Takes now in paperback. Just go to straightshooterbook.com to get yourself a copy. Once again, that's straightshooterbook.com to get yourself a copy. As usual, you see over my right shoulder, Straight Shooter Media. That is the name of my media company that controls this operation and what have you. It's named after my book, just so you know. Obviously, it's my production company, so I really appreciate the love and support, y' all. Thank you so much. Let's get started with the latest in Los Angeles, California, where tensions are escalating to a fourth day after protest against Immigration and Customs Enforcement, better known as ice. Demonstrators and police faced off in scattered protest in downtown LA as more than 100 people were arrested just last night. According to Mayor Karen Bass, damage to the area appears to be limited to a portion of downtown, while most of the city has not been affected by the protest at all. Meanwhile, President Trump has now deployed 4,000 National Guardsmen and now Marines to Los Angeles as well. All this while Governor Gavin Newsom is suing the administration, saying they unlawfully trampled over California's sovereignty when they federalized the state National Guard. Meanwhile, Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth went to Capitol Hill today to address the overall cost of sending troops to Southern California. However, Hegseth repeatedly did not answer questions about the cost or what resources were being taken away in other areas to send troops to la. First things first. That's bull. You get summoned to Capitol Hill. You're the Defense Secretary of the United States of America. You're in front of representatives who control our budget, the legislating body that controls our budget. They ask you a damn question about what it costs. You're supposed to have the answers, supposed to have the answers, and you're supposed to be willing to answer those damn questions. That's bs. Let's get that out the way. Secondly, I'm gonna have my man Kevin Frazier on in just a few minutes, who is a Los Angeles resident, he's a host for Entertainment Tonight, and obviously he's been on the ground, on the scene throughout this ordeal because it's right in his area. He lives there, so he would know what's truth and what's falsehood as it pertains to several things. Number one, was it really, really necessary to send 2,000 National Guardsmen initially? Was it really, really necessary to send an additional 2000? Was it really necessary to send 700 marines? Is this all pomp and circumstance, or are things really, really that bad that we have to prioritize making sure federal properties, federal buildings, et cetera, are protected and Donald Trump is doing the right thing by taking this kind of stance? We have to look at Democrats when it comes to the leadership, that of Governor Gavin Newsom or Mayor Karen Bass. Less about Bass, more about Newsom. Let's get to Bass. First, it's Los Angeles. You know, we've seen riots there before. We understand how things can go down. And so engaging in preventative measures, I don't know how awful that is for the Trump administration to do. If they are honest and open about that's why they're doing it, as opposed to giving a picture that something is more egregious than it really, really is. It seems a bit of sensationalism and embellishment is entering the equation, at least in some people's eyes. She's saying that the LAPD did not need the help of the federal government. It did not need the help of the President. It did not need National Guardsmen and Marines there. All you're doing is exacerbating a situation. My response to that would be, fair enough, that's a reasonable conclusion. But having Marines and a National Guard there shouldn't incite people to engage in lawlessness. Even more so, it should be a deterrent. And if it's not a deterrent while the Marines and the National Guards are there, why are we to believe that them not being there would be a deterrent? That doesn't make sense to me, Mayor Bass. It just doesn't. So I don't want to hear that it's exacerbating the situation. Lawlessness is lawlessness. And if you have law enforcement officials, National Guardsmen, U.S. marines, federal participation in the mix, and they believe that this is what they need to do, breaking the law doesn't cut it. That doesn't mean everybody. That doesn't even mean most people are not being peaceful, pro peaceful protesters. But for those who are not, who are throwing bricks and stuff at the cops. No, arrest their ass. Arrest them. You've got no business doing something like that. Not to national guardsmen, not to U.S. marines, not to LAPD, not to any law enforcement official. You engage in violence, protesting is one thing. Peaceful protesting is one thing. Engaging in mayhem, contributing to mayhem, instigating mayhem is another matter entirely. So I wanted to say that. Let me get to Gavin Newsom. Sir. We kind of see what's going on. You know that, right? You're challenging the border czar, Tom Holman to arrest you. You're bringing up fourth grade children, being bothered and what have you. California is a sanctuary state, which means there are laws in place for you to defy the federal government. A president's order, essentially federalizing the state National Guard, which is what you're taking the Trump administration to court over, just like you have the right to do that. Trump has the right as president of the United States to say, I don't like what I'm seeing and I feel this is necessary. Now, do I believe that's his objective? Of course I don't. We heard the arguments over dollars being stripped from Medicaid and whether there was a debate going on as to whether or not that was true or not. We saw what was going on between Trump and Elon Musk over the last week. We still see the war in Ukraine with Russia going on. Okay. Tariffs. That situation hasn't been totally resolved. So if you're Trump with the midterms a year away and with you not necessarily being the most popular individual in the polls, this being a subject that you're tackling, which happens to be right in your wheelhouse where most Americans are siding with you and the Republican Party in this day and age, I mean, boo, boo. The fool can see why you would want to tackle this issue. It's a very winnable issue for the Trump administration. Nobody's blind. Except possibly Gavin Newsom. Because where it gets interesting is that you being the governor of California, you knowing about your budget deficits, you knowing about how homelessness in the city, although it has decreased somewhat, is being depicted over the national airways, you knowing that being a sanctuary state, how many immigrants and undocumented immigrants have entered the state of California and reside there, even though they're taxpayers, even though they're hard workers and what have you. And no, most of them are not criminals. And the way they're being depicted and talked about has been very, very egregious, no doubt about it. But you exacerbating the situation, not in terms of what you're saying, but how you're saying it and how you're coming at the president. You're trying to tell me that people are not looking at you and they're not going to assume you're trying to politicize all of this to your advantage, especially since you do to come out of office and you desperately want to be a candidate for the election in 2028. All I'm saying about Gavin Newsom is that I don't know how much this is going to work. Republican pollster Whit Ayers in a Wall Street Journal says, as is so often the case, Donald Trump's opponents are playing right into his hands. This is exactly the kind of fight that Donald Trump loves with his opponents carrying Mexican flags and past burning cars. That's a Republican strategist. We know this. Democrats counted that Trump's decision to initially send 2,000 members of the National Guard into the nation's second largest populous city over the weekend only inflamed the situation. While raising legal issues about states rights, the administration on Monday also deployed about 700 Marines to Los Angeles to protect federal property and personnel and authorize an additional 2,000 National Guard members. What are they saying here? A Democratic strategist every day that Donald Trump is talking about immigration and not talking about kicking 13 million people off insurance and Medicaid? He knows he is winning. He wants to see people standing on top of burning cars waving the Mexican flag. That's the exact imagery that can help him over perform in the midterm elections. So whether it's a Democratic strategist or it's a Republican strategist, they're essentially both saying the same thing. This is a winning hand for Donald Trump. So maybe, just maybe, we need to be a bit more judicious and more careful in our verbiage and our temperament when we're attacking this issue. Because the next things Republicans are going to say is, you know, they're for lawlessness, right? They're going to show these images, they're going to say they're for lawlessness. Folks are going to buy it hook, line and sinker, and their issues of safety is going to usurp any other concerns they have. I'm talking about the voters. And before you know it, Dems are going to lose the midterms. They're not going to regain any seats in the House or the Senate, and Trump will be able to operate with relative impunity to 2028. I'm sitting here, months after the election, seeing what's transpiring in Los Angeles, still waiting for the Democrats, in this case, Gavin Newsom, to show me a strategy that's going to work. Still waiting. That's my opinion. My opinion. But obviously there are opinions that matter more than mine. And in this case, it'll be my next guest, who happens to be a Los Angelean. He lives there. He's been right there in the streets, drove down to the riots, the quote, unquote, riots last night. How do I know this? Cause I was on the phone with him right before he decided to hop off the phone to get in his car to go there. I'm talking about the host for Entertainment Tonight, one of my best friends in the world. I've known him many Many years. And he's a contributor to this show, the one and only Kevin Frazier of Entertainment Tonight, here to talk about what's going on. What's going on, man? What is going on in Los Angeles, California? We see cnn, we see msnbc, we see FOX News. We hear political pundits on both sides of the aisle telling us what's going on. What's really going on in Los Angeles? Is it really as bad as it looks?
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Kevin Frazier
That's been the disappointing thing. Watching national cable news and watching the way they have inflated the situation at night. Things are getting a little ugly with a few agitators that are in a very small sliver of Los Angeles. Have to understand Los Angeles is a large, sprawling city. Downtown is a small part of it, and in a small part of downtown, there are issues. And let me put it to you this way. Last night I was at the Peacock Theater for the BET Awards. Now you're talking about big major stars moving in and out and around the city. There were no problems. There were no issues. There was a convention going on in downtown Los Angeles. And I was so disturbed by what I saw on the national news that I drove up to where the protests were going. I drove right up to the police barricade, and then I turned around. What I saw is a lot of youngsters walking around videoing. I saw people that had graffitied all over the place. The people who are doing the graffiti and causing any damage at all need to go to jail asap and they need to be put under the jail. But the narrative that is being sold, the narrative that is being pushed out there, that LA is in chaos, that the city is burning, that it would have burned down if it wasn't for the President. Sending in troops is a false narrative. And I'm telling you that because I've seen it with my own eyes. And so it's very bothersome that LA is functioning as normal. But I see the national news and on both sides, I'm not saying that it's one and not the other, on both sides are inflating this situation. And that has been horrible.
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Stephen A. Smith
And that's the thing that's been driving me crazy about it, because I saw FOX News and, you know, naturally, 2,000 National True National Guards have been sent by Trump. 700 United States Marines have been sent by Trump. And so you think it has 2700 plus, they're saying additional Guard National Guardsmen are going to be sent to protect federal property. You see that onslaught of troops coming into a major city in the United States of America. It would certainly give that impression and Fox News didn't hesitate to do that. But then I look around and I see Aaron Burnett and others from CNN in their own way doing somewhat the same thing. Why are people doing that in your estimation, Kevin, if that's not truly what, what's going on in the city of Los Angeles?
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Kevin Frazier
Eyeball, Stephen. And if you're watching, our good friend Stephanie Elam this morning on cnn, she has really done a great job of setting the record straight. She was down near the damage. She talked about the incredible cleanup that has gone on in Los Angeles today in the areas that were affected, how graffiti is being wiped away. The biggest problem right now is graffiti and there are agitators out there. They can be arrested. I will tell you, last night as I drove around at 10:30pm There was a large police presence, especially around the downtown police station. There was no one interacting with those police. There's just a large police presence. The police force in Los Angeles is one of the nation's largest. They have this situation under control. We heard the head of the LA Police Department say that he wouldn't have sent in if it was up to him. He wouldn't have sent in the National Guard because he knows he has more than enough resources. So what is happening is, is that, and you've seen this before, say somewhere floods. And the people go to the flood and one neighbor, their house is underwater a block over, they're dry. You stand by the house that is underwater. And so a small sliver of Los Angeles, and I will say this again, a very tiny sliver of Los Angeles, a three block radius. There were issues, but during the daytime there was a peaceful protest in Grant park with many people there.
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Stephen A. Smith
But is it possible that it wasn't as big of an issue as it's being made out to be because of the presence of the National Guard and Marines? And as a result, people, is that possible?
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Kevin Frazier
No, no, no. Before they got there, before they got there, things had tampered off. You have to go back and look at, you know, when you see these shots of chaos and a car burning or something like that. If you notice they are interestingly framed shots, here's all I'm saying, were cars set on fire, was concrete thrown at police and other things. Horrible. Arrest those people immediately. I posted earlier today from the celebrations after the super bowl in Philadelphia, where they took a furniture, where they took a laundry truck and they stopped it, they pulled all of the towels and everything out and they set it on fire. In the middle of the street in Philadelphia, it looked like chaos. The same thing after UConn won the men's national championship. They were tearing down street lamps and other things. They set furniture on fire on the campus. It looked like chaos. What we need, and all I'm asking from journalists is to give us a clear and honest picture of what's going on. If I can walk around there, there, if I can go and get a juice from the juice bar, then everything's okay. It's. We have to stop the graffiti. We have to stop the craziness and the agitators that are going out at night. But the citizens of LA are going about their business everywhere else, so that's all they're inflaming, the situations.
- [19:21]
Stephen A. Smith
I'm going to ask how Los Angeles feel about their leadership, from Governor Gavin Newsom down to Mayor Karen Bass, because Karen Bass was on msnbc, I saw her last night saying, it's overblown. We do not need all of this. But Gavin Newsom basically threatening border czar Tom Homan to come and arrest him. Going off about Trump the way that he has, some people believe his political grandstanding, other people believe it's sincere. I would say this, Kev, as overblown as it may be, the reality is, is that it is not a look. It is not a good look. If you see folks in Los Angeles walking around with flags that ain't American, whether it's Mexican or something else passing by, burning cars, you know that's going to be something that's utilized by the right. Because Trump has us talking about this instead of other issues that we should and could have been talking about, seems to be working to his advantage.
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Kevin Frazier
Say this, okay, first of all, there is a lot of theatrics and grandstanding going on. And can the situation get under control? Of course. But to villainize people because they are carrying a flag of another nation. Let's think about that now. We don't villainize the police in New York during the St. Patrick's Day parade if someone is carrying an Irish flag. We don't villainize the people at the Puerto Rico Day Parade when it is one of New York's great moments. And we can't villainize the people who carry around Mexican flags. All that is is celebrating your heritage. And that's one of the things that America is about, celebrating your heritage. So to say the flags are a problem or other things like that, that's crazy talk. Remember where Los Angeles is. Remember that the state of California was once Mexico and so to villainize the people who celebrate their heritage is ridiculous. Now, to be upset with the people who are causing damage and destruction, 100%. Arrest them tonight, put them under the jail. That's this. I have no problem with that. These are the wrong people. These are agitators who are coming out for different reasons besides what the people who are joining the peaceful protests are out there for. And so let's not conflate or confuse the two things.
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Stephen A. Smith
Got it. Is the city of Los Angeles your estimation standing with Governor Newsom and Mayor Karen Bass, or are there an abundance of folks that are siding with Trump and his position and that of his administration and what their stance is? How would you say things are looking in that regard amongst Los Angeles?
- [22:03]
Kevin Frazier
I'll say this, I'm not a pollster, but I will tell you this. The city of Los Angeles is based on working people. This city works because there are working people of all nationalities and many of them Latino, that help keep this city moving. When you make those people afraid to go to send their kids to school, afraid to go to work, afraid to go and do the essential jobs that they have, then that's a problem because you are crippling the city. We are seeing this with farmers all over the country who are losing their workers, construction sites who are losing their workers. And when people applaud that and American productivity plummets, then that's a problem because you're working against our own best interests. So, look, violent criminals, get them out of here. People who are doing bad things, get them out of here. But there are lots of people who are violent of all race, creeds and color. And so let's just keep that in mind before we single out certain people. Is President Trump doing what he said he was going to do? He is. And I'm not mad at him for doing what he said he was going to do. If we had a problem with it, we should have gone to the polls and taken care of that. And now everyone has to get ready for the midterm elections.
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Stephen A. Smith
There you go. Kevin Frank.
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Kevin Frazier
I will say this, Stephen. No one voted. No one voted. I don't think anyone voted for him to usurp the Constitution.
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Stephen A. Smith
And is that what is believed he's doing?
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Kevin Frazier
The Constitution is there for a reason. And I believe that if you are creating laws and things that allow you to work around it, through it or push it to aside, then that's a problem because that's the most un American thing there is. You know, a lot of people were upset before and when they were saying unconstitutional, things were being done on both sides. And if you are. If you are not following the Constitution, the law of this land, I have a problem with you. I don't care what party you are from. And by the way, just like you, I'm disgusted by the way the Democratic Party has conducted itself. It's been horrible. What they have done to this nation is horrible. I am disgusted by some of the things that the Republican Party is doing right now. What we need is we need people who actually care about the people in this country and are not putting their self interest first.
- [24:28]
Stephen A. Smith
See, I'm gonna stop you right there. We gonna end this interview because then the next thing you're gonna say is you're gonna try to get me to run again. See, people don't know behind the scenes. You've been trying to get me to run for a while office. It ain't happening.
- [24:36]
Kevin Frazier
Talks about Steve, we've had a lot of talks about this, and we. And I have said that there has to be a change. There has to be a voice that is coming from the middle and can see both sides. We can't be afraid of each other or we can't be afraid to talk to each other. And one of the things I love about this show, and you know why we are so close, is because it's about bringing everybody on to speak their mind and let them speak their piece. I'm not going to interrupt you. I'm not going to argue. I'm going to let you speak your piece. And that's what it's about. You have to hear the other side to know what they're thinking. So in that way, I do think that there are things that we are discussing and you need to think about. And we. We'll get into that later. There's more of that.
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Stephen A. Smith
Maybe I'll be lucky enough to get Gavin Newsome to stop running and come on the show. Maybe that'll happen, but we'll talk about that.
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Kevin Frazier
I don't think he's running, Steve. I don't think he's running.
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Stephen A. Smith
I think.
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Kevin Frazier
I don't think he's running.
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Stephen A. Smith
His feelings are a little hurt.
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Kevin Frazier
His feelings are hurt.
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Stephen A. Smith
It's okay, though. I understand. Kevin Frazier. Appreciate you, man. Stay safe out there. Even though it's not as bad as it's trying to be paid it out to be. I spoke to you last night while all of this stuff was all over the news. You're like, I'm right here near downtown. I'm absolutely fine. That's what you saying? That's why I had to have you on today. Thanks a lot, man.
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Kevin Frazier
BET Awards. Do you think Mariah Carey is going to come into a riot to accept an award?
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Stephen A. Smith
That's exactly.
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Kevin Frazier
Hell no.
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Stephen A. Smith
No, that's true. That's true. Appreciate you, bro. Thanks a lot, man. I'm only Kevin Fraser right here in the house with Stephen A. Smith Show. Coming up, the NBA Finals head to Indie for game three. With the paces and thunder splitting the first two games, which squad has the advantage in the series so far? I'll get into that. But first, Simone Biles and Riley Gaines get into a war of words over the inclusion of transgender athletes in women's sports. Riley Gage joins me next on the show with her side of the story. Stick around. It's your boy Stephen A. In the house. Why would you go in? All right, everybody, listen up. Lola, big time sports action is happening each and every day. The Stephen A. Smith show wants to make sure you are taking advantage of it all. That's why we partnered with Prize Picks, the best place to win cash while watching sports. The app is really easy to use to make a lineup. All you have to do is pick more or less on a few player stats. Choose from any of your favorite players. Tyrese Halliburton, Shay Gilgeous Alexander, Pascal Siakam, all in the same entry. Just sit back and watch. The list is really endless. You can play prospects in over 40 states, including California and Texas. Best of all, Prize Picks will give you 50 when you play your first five dollar lineup. Win or lose, you'll get 50 bucks. So just use promo code SAS and download Prize Picks now. Again, download the app and use code SAS to get 50 instantly after your first five dollar lineup. Prize picks. Hey, hey. Run your game. Welcome back to the Stephen A. Smith Show. My next guest is a former NCAA All American swimmers turned conservative pundit who now hosts the gainesforgirls podcast on outkick.com that focuses on current events, social issues and topics related to women's rights and gender equity. Please welcome to the Stephen a. Smith Show, Ms. Riley Gaines. Riley, how are you? How's everything?
- [27:38]
Riley Gaines
I am fantastic. Super excited to be on with you today. So thanks for the opportunity.
- [27:42]
Stephen A. Smith
Oh, please, my pleasure. Thank you for coming on. Let me give the audience some background on the story. Last week, a transgender softball pitch in Minnesota named Marissa Rothenberger led Champlin Park High School to a state championship. This athlete's participation in a girls softball season was in defiance of President Donald Trump's executive order of keeping Biological men out of women's sports. The high school league removed comments from a post showing the winners of a softball state championship. So I know you reacted to that. I want to know what was your reaction when you saw all of that. Could you remind our audience of what it was?
- [28:20]
Riley Gaines
Absolutely. Well, this was about two weeks ago at this point. Understand that week we saw in five different states, California, Washington, Oregon, Maine and Minnesota, boys take qualifying spots, state championships, or podium spots from deserving girls. This case in Minnesota that you're referring to, this was a boy who pitched five games straight, 35 consecutive innings. Only allowed two runs. Of those 35 innings, I think he pitched 21 shutout innings. They won the state championship. It was his team's first time ever even making the state tournament. Of course, they went on to win. He led his team in a way that I would describe not very valiantly. Nonetheless, to be very clear, this boy is. Is following the rules that were in place by local leadership, state leadership, of course, at the interscholastic level, but nonetheless, it violated federal law, that federal law being title nine. So I was quick to call this out, as I have done for years after experiencing personally the effects of competing against a man. So that's a little backstory here. The issue is still happening. It continues to persist with full steam ahead and no signs of slowing down.
- [29:31]
Stephen A. Smith
And how long have you maintained or, you know, I don't want to say this is new to you because like you said, you've been speaking on this for quite some time. I'm assuming when you talked about having personally experience competing against a man as a swimmer, I'm assuming you're alluding to Leah Thomas. I want you to talk about the origins of your feelings and how outspoken you have been about this particular issue in the past.
- [29:52]
Riley Gaines
Yeah, yeah. I'll give you the 30,000 foot overview, Swami. University of Kentucky. Did some great things in my career. 12 time All American, five time SEC champion, the SEC record holder in the 200 butterfly, making me one of the fastest Americans of all time. Two time Olympic trial qualifier. The list goes on. But. But really, just to reiterate, it's a lifelong journey to be able to compete and succeed really, at the highest level. Senior year, ncaa. We're geared up. We're ready to go. This is the meet. You work all year, really all your life for championship final of the women's 200 freestyle, meaning top eight women in the entire country. And I look over at the lane, a couple lanes over for me, and there's a 6 foot 4 man standing there, his size 15ft, taking up the entire diving block visible from his side profile is not only his Adam's apple, but to be pretty explicit here. And again, just describing what we saw, the bulge and his women's swimsuit. I recognize this to be wrong, as did 99% of athletes on that pool deck, but everyone was terrified to say it. Jumped in the water, we swam eight laps of freestyle, touched a wall at the end, and almost impossibly enough, Steven, we went the exact same time, meaning down to the hundredth of a second, which is really rare in our sport. We get out of the water, we go behind the awards podium, where the NCAA official looks at both Thomas and myself. Thomas towering over me, eight, nine inches taller than me. And the official says, great job, you two, but you tied. We don't account for ties. We only have one trophy and we're going to give that trophy to Leah. And when I asked the dreaded question of why, the question that they weren't prepared to answer, they weren't given a script of what to say. When asked this question, he stumbled on his words, but ultimately was honest and said, look, we've been advised as an organization, as the ncaa, that when photos are being taken, it's crucial that the trophy is in Leah's hands. And I'll tell you what, that's when I made my mind up that I would say something again. We all recognized it. My coaches, the athletes, athletic directors, the officials at the meet, they all knew it to be wrong, but everyone was terrified to say something. So that was the competition piece on top of the locker room, which is again, a totally violating experience, on top of the silencing that we faced. All of those were contributing factors and ultimately the stance that I've taken a little over three years ago at this point.
- [32:11]
Stephen A. Smith
How much resistance have you experienced since you've taken those stance?
- [32:16]
Riley Gaines
Man, I think back to 2022, where it was certainly not as favorable as it is now to say the controversial thing that men and women are different. I mean, I've been in situations where my, well being, my safety is at risk. I've been held captive for over five hours, four and a half hours. Ish, actually, in San Francisco, where a mob of protesters demanded that I had to pay them money if I wanted to make it back home to see my family safely again. I mean, even just a month ago, not even a month ago, in Seattle, I had human feces thrown at me. In Portland, there were about five people arrested for trying to terminate my life. And Again, Stephen, I think my take is just about the least controversial take on the entire planet. It's described as an 8020 issue. I think it's more drastic than that. I think it's a 9010 issue, if not even more than that. 90% of Americans, of course, believing that men don't belong in women's sports. But for saying that out loud, publicly and unapologetically, you're really met with some of the most hostile and oftentimes violent encounters that you could possibly imagine.
- [33:33]
Stephen A. Smith
Now, see, I'm liberal when it comes to living and let. Living. Okay, that's my general stance. But when you're talking about women competing in sports against transgender women, men transitioning to women, I side with you 1000%. I have no problem with your position whatsoever, and I'm not scared to say it, and I've never been scared to say it. I think that's absolutely the right thing to do. Women should be competing against women, men should be competing against men, and transgenders should be competing against transgenders. I have no problem with it whatsoever. I don't know why that's controversial. But when you think about what you've been exposed to and what you've had to deal with, it brings us to Simone Biles, which is why this is a subject that we had to tackle. Because your stance and your position recently, when you spoke about the person from Minnesota that prompted Simone Biles to post this about you, quote, this is her quote about you. You're truly sick. All of this campaigning because you lost a race, straight up. Sore loser. You should be uplifting the trans community and perhaps finding a way to make sports inclusive or creating a new avenue where trans people feel safe in sports. Instead, you bully them. One thing's for sure is no one in sports is safe with you around, end quote. What was your immediate reaction when you saw what Simone Biles had to say about you, the great Olympian that she is, because nobody could question her credentials? And now that you've had an opportunity to reflect even further on what she has said, what is your reaction?
- [35:01]
Riley Gaines
Now, when I first got this notification on my phone, of course, as you just said, Simone, her illustrious career, what she's done for the sport of gymnastics, what she's done for women's sports in general, much broader than gymnastics, I have looked up to her and admired her. I mean, I watched her compete in 2016, 2020, 2024, the past eight. Ish. I guess, nine years at this point, I. I've admired Simone Biles. So when I Got this notification on my phone that I had been tagged in something on X from Simone. I was like, overwhelmed with excitement and starstruck. And I click on it and I read what. What you just said out loud. And I read it again and again and I clicked the profile. And then I went back and I clicked the profile again to make sure it was. It was really Simone Biles. This wasn't a fake account. And it. It really was Simone Biles. And I was heartbroken. And I'll tell you what, I wasn't heartbroken because of the personal attacks, because of her calling me a bully or saying that I'm disgusting or truly sick or whatever she said. It wasn't that. That hurt my feelings because I'm a very secure person. I'm secure with myself. I'm secure with the side of history that I'm on. Very happily married for three plus years. Like, none of those personal attacks bothered me. But what did bother me is knowing the platform that she has and how she was so quick, in such a venomous way to sell out young girls like my little sister. My little sister's 16 years old. She's an elite level gymnast. She's. I come from a family of athletes. Look. My dad played professional ball, SEC hall of Famer. My brother played football in college. I, of course, went to University of Kentucky. My mom was a Division 1 softball player. My oldest sister went to Ole Miss. She played softball. My youngest sister is the best athlete out of all of us. She will go on to do incredible things, whatever she does in college and beyond. That's why my heart broke in that moment. I'm sure you'll continue to read the next tweet that Simone put out, which we can discuss. But in that moment, I was so just disappointed and disheartened to know a woman who has done so much for the sport was so quick to pull up the ladder. Behind her is how I would describe.
- [37:05]
Stephen A. Smith
It in your response to Bob's. You brought up Larry Nassar, and that's the only thing that you said where I took issue. I took umbrage with what you said because you brought him up. This is the former national team doctor who sexually abused multiple US Gymnasts, including Biles, under the guise of quote, unquote, medical treatment. You wrote, quote, all the horrific sexual abuse Simone Biles witnessed and spoke out against, caused by one man, yet believes women should be forced to strip naked in front of men to validate the man's feelings. You know how many gold medals you'd have if Your inclusive dream came true. 0 I want I I. That was the only thing that I criticized you for because I thought that was really, really below the belt. Considering what, how heinous of an individual, how despicable Larry Nasser was and what Simone Biles was subjected to because of that man. Any regrets at all about saying that? Bringing up Larry Nasser is what I'm asking.
- [38:03]
Riley Gaines
I stand by what I said. But let me provide a little context.
- [38:06]
Stephen A. Smith
Okay.
- [38:06]
Riley Gaines
First of all, for clarity, I believe Larry Nasser is a monster and who should spend every single waking second for the rest of his life miserable and rotting away in prison. There, there's no me and Simone certainly agree there context here for the situation. Again, that, that my own personal experience that I can speak to. I don't know if you've ever been inside of a locker room, specifically a locker room on a pool deck. Right. It's an open space. It's basically like a large square. There is no stalls beyond the stalls that you use the restroom in, but you're not putting your suit on or of course showering in those stalls.
- [38:40]
Stephen A. Smith
Okay.
- [38:41]
Riley Gaines
Does it get more perverted than being in a shower, which is typical for a swimming locker room especially, you're in the chlorine, you get out, you're in the pool five times a day, you rinse off. Does it get more perverted than standing in the shower, totally undressed, when a 6 foot 4, 6 foot 4 man approaches you, stands in the shower, head next to you, undresses himself fully naked, fully intact, and watches you shower? That's, that's the context I was drawing. And to me, that is sexual abuse. What me and my teammates had to go through was certainly sexual abuse. Again, for clarity, I think what Simone, her teammates went through is condemnable and punishable beyond what we face. Again, there's no doubt in my mind there. But to try to normalize this, or in Simone's case, attempt to silence those who speak out about this. That's the conclusion I was drawing here. No girl should have to go through this. Whether it is rape, whether it's unwanted touching, whether it's voyeurism, whether it's indecent exposure. And no woman should ever, ever be shamed for pointing out when men are abusing women. I found a video of Simone testifying before Congress. This same seat I have found myself in. I've testified, testified before Congress in the Senate many, many times. And I listened to the part of her testimony. I posted a video of it, a little clip of it, where she's of course Speaking to the abuse, speaking to how horrific. Speaking to how no woman should have to go through this again. And our messages sounded the exact same when I sat in that seat. She got emotional in her testimony, I got emotional in my testimony describing this. That's the conclusion I was drawing here. Again, it is easy to condemn Larry Nassar, but I believe it should be just as easy to condemn those who attempt to normalize or think it's not on a scale of gross sexual offense against women and girls to have men undressing and showering next to women.
- [40:37]
Stephen A. Smith
Riley, I can push back, but I won't even try. And the reason why I won't even try is because you make a very, very valid point. First of all, your personal experiences. Secondly, you're a lady. I am not. And so when you talk about what's offensive to you, one of the things that I have a problem with, particularly with people on Capitol Hill, is when men are trying to tell women how they should feel about their experiences, as if they know. It's one thing for you to have an opinion, but it's another thing for you to come across as if you know something. It's impossible for you to know. I can never know what Raleigh Gaines just alluded to, other than how you explained it. So I really appreciate that point, and I thank you for it. I gotta ask you this question. Is there a resolution? When we think about the whole trans issue in sports, I don't have any problems with anybody from the LGBTQ community. Live your life. Do what you do. I'm not trying to be invasive in that regard, but. But when we talk about transgender issues in the world of sports, it seems to me, from a societal perspective, we're being a bit hypocritical because we go out of our way to talk about the protection that women need in terms of title 9, fair and equitable treatment under the laws of our land. But somehow, some way, something like this comes up and we forget those very things, which somebody like you essentially was reminding us. We have forgotten about that. But you didn't. So that's a testament to you that. But when we talk about an equitable solution to the issue of trans athletes, is there a solution that you think exists out there? Because it doesn't seem like there is one.
- [42:06]
Riley Gaines
It's a good point you bring up, and it's Simone mentioned in her initial tweet. Right. Creating a third category. Almost. I'll tell you, I initially supported this idea. I believe this was a way to prioritize inclusion, but not at the expense of safety, number one and fairness number two. But I'll tell you, when I changed my mind, this was done. Fina, the international governing body of swimming, created a third category at the international level, like a very high level of competition for people like Leah Thomas or those who are identify as trans, gender, non conforming, non binary, whatever. It is a separate category for that. No one competed in it. Actually. Thomas went on to sue World Aquatics for, for this new rule, ultimately making the point that he doesn't want to compete if he can't trample on women in, in the process here then I began to really think about is antithetical to sports to have a category based on identity. We don't have a category based on identity, any other identity. Right. We don't have a category based on race and we absolutely shouldn't. We don't have a category based on religion and we absolutely shouldn't. Sports aren't about your, your feelings. Ultimately, at the end of the day, they're just not. You can make the argument about, of course, peewee leagues or 12 and under or whatever division that is, I think especially before puberty. But you reach a certain point and sports are about winning, it's about success. And I don't know if you saw even just this afternoon, Simone Biles issued an apology to me. I think it was a bit of damage control personally, but nonetheless I fully, fully accepted her apology. But in her apology she mentions, you know, we need to be striving for inclusivity and competitive equity. The idea of sports inherently are inclusive, Steven. Anyone can play sports. That's the beauty of sports. That's why I love them. It's really this unifying experience that again, I got to be a part of, that I got to benefit from. But on the other hand, competition by definition is exclusive. So the idea of competitive equity is totally nonsensical. I believe the solution is what is is at least has been in front of us the past, actually this month it'll be the past 53 years since title IX was implemented. You have a men's category and you have a women's category. That allows for everyone under the sun to be able to compete.
- [44:31]
Stephen A. Smith
You know, that's a compelling argument. I would tell you that when you think about the Paralympics and other things, I mean, you see people with disabilities and what have you competing against people with disabilities. So that's where my idea came from. In terms of women, women, men, trans, trans. In other words, compete against your own. If you're a man transitioning into being a woman, then compete against other men, transitioning into being a woman, and vice versa. It shouldn't be you infiltrating women's sports in that way. I've always agreed with that position. I'm not about to sit here and be a phony and disagree with you now. Raleigh Gaines, I really, really appreciate your time. Thank you very, very much. Your arguments were very eloquent. I appreciate I got very little pushback to provide, you know, the one pushback that I had. But you explained that thoroughly, and I really appreciate it. Are you hoping to speak to Simone Bile soon?
- [45:17]
Riley Gaines
Look, I would love it. In my response to her apology today, I conclude it by saying, look, I welcome you to the fight to support fair sports and a future for female athletes. I would love to have a discussion to further elaborate again, the position that I have taken, the line that I have drawn in the sand, why I will never back down from that. Would love the opportunity to do so.
- [45:40]
Stephen A. Smith
Okay, well, there's always a place here for you anytime you want to discuss these issues. I'm not running or hiding from it. And I really thank you for your time. Thank you so much for coming on and explaining your position. I really appreciate it. And good luck with your show. Good luck with your podcast. I mean, you're doing good things with it. Keep. Keep it going.
- [45:54]
Riley Gaines
Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate it.
- [45:56]
Stephen A. Smith
Okay, one and only, Raleigh Gaines, right here on the Stephen A. Smith Show. Coming up, the NBA Finals heads to Indy with the paces and thunder splitting the first two games. So who has the edge heading into game three? I'll get into that next right here on the Stephen A. Smith Show. Don't go away. Welcome back to the Stephen A. Smith Show. Now let's get to the NBA Finals, where the series shifts to India and the Pacers holding home court advantage after stealing game one from the Thunder on the road. Oklahoma City bounced back with an emphatic game two win on Sunday night to even the series. It's not over. This is still a highly competitive series, and I give Indiana a lot of credit for that because I never anticipated that they would win game one the way that they did. To be down 15, to come back. To be down 15 with over nine minutes left and to come back and to win that game. Got to give a lot of credit that particular game. Neesmith Nemhard, Miles Turner, Pascal Siakam, all of them showed up with big buckets down the stretch, setting the stage for Tyrese Halliburton to hit his game winner with 0.3 seconds left in regulation deserves a lot of credit in that span this post season. This brother, tyrese Halliburton, in 15 seconds or left, left in regulation or overtime, okay, this Brother has gone 5 for 5 from the field while the rest of the NBA in the postseason has gone 4 of 26. You can't say enough about that from Tyrese Halliburton and his performance in game one, meaning that big time shot. But for the most part, he's been relatively neutralized because the star of this series, make no mistake about it, has been Shea Butter, as in Shea Gilgis. Alexander, as in the reigning league MVP, just finished averaging 32.7 a game. He's averaged at least 30 over the last three seasons. He's 26 years of age, ladies and gentlemen. Doesn't even shoot that many threes. But the brother's Mr. Mid Range. He's got a nasty handle. He can create his own shot. He can get to the rim anytime he wants to. And the reason I'm bringing that up is because if you're Halliburton, who everybody's been talking about as this young superstar, and I said, no, he's not a superstar. Not there yet. The brother can play. He's not overrated. He's not a scrub, but he's not a superstar. That would be Shea Gilgeous Alexander. Here's the flip side to all of that. Shay Gilgeous Alexander is not only a star, a superstar, but he plays the same position as Tyrese Halliburton. They're damn near the same height, for crying out loud. You got to step up and handle your business. This brother, Shay Gilgis Alexander, dropped 38 in Game 1, dropped 34 in Game 2, averaging 36 on the series, you got to answer that call. You can't be averaging 11 points or 15 points. Rather shoot 33% from the field. You can't go to first 40 minutes of the game with just five points, and you score 12 points in the fourth quarter. When the game is out of reach, that ain't good enough. So Halliburton's got to do more. Pascal Siakam. You can't be held to 3, 4, 11 shooting with Alex Caruso guarding you half the time. You got to take advantage. You got to find a way. Because Indiana, as potent as they can be, Oklahoma City is a different beast. This defense is elite. Lou Dort is an elite defender. Alex Caruso is an elite defender. Kayson Wallace can defend. And then when you take into account that Shay Gilgis and Jalen Williams also do defend as well. And Jalen Williams, your second best offensive player is a cat, only two, one of two in the entire NBA. Him and Evan Mobley of the Cleveland Cavaliers, who were all NBA, all NBA on all NBA team, but also on an all NBA defensive team. Only two players did that this year, Evan Mobley and Jalen Williams. So there's no drop off with okc. Everybody defends. Everybody defends. And then when you got this cat Wiggins coming off the bench and he gives you 18 points on five threes and Caruso is open in the corner three or four times for his corner threes and he's giving you 20 and not a single Indiana Pacer has scored 20, 20 points in Games 1 and 2 of this series. Indiana has to show up. Game 3 is pivotal for them. They must at least split or it's over in five. Five. They gotta split or it's over in five. So you gotta win game three or four and I think there are better chances to win game three as opposed to game four. They gotta show up. Will they? That remains the question. It's an intriguing one though, because Indiana can score and because they can score, who knows how interesting they may make this. Oklahoma City is clearly the better team. That does not mean Indiana can't win. Keep that in mind. I'm still with OKC in six, but Indiana better win. Win one of these games or it ain't going six. That's it for this edition of the Stephen A. Smith Show. Hope you like it. I gotta head to the NBA Finals, but I'll holla at y' all in a couple of days. Until then, ladies and gentlemen, peace and love. I'm out.
- [51:08]
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- [52:07]
Stephen A. Smith
Life.
- [52:10]
iHeart Podcast Host
Camp Shane, one of America's longest running weight loss camps for kids, promised extraordinary results. But there were some dark truths behind Camp Shane's facade of happy, transformed children.
- [52:22]
Washable Sofas Advertiser
Nothing about that camp was right.
- [52:24]
Riley Gaines
It was really actually like a horror movie.
- [52:27]
iHeart Podcast Host
Enter Camp Shame, an eight part series examining the rise and fall of Camp Shane and the culture that fueled its decades long success. You can listen to all episodes of Camp Shame one week early and totally ad free on iheart True Crime plus so don't wait. Head to Apple Podcasts and subscribe today. This is an iHeart podcast.