← Straight Shooter with Stephen A.
Straight Shooter with Stephen A.
Full Show: Straight Shooter Stephen A. Smith interviews the charismatic Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro.
01:00:05
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- [00:00]
Josh Shapiro
At&t has a new guarantee because most.
- [00:03]
Stephen A. Smith
Things in life are not guaranteed like.
- [00:06]
Josh Shapiro
Getting through self checkout by yourself.
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Stephen A. Smith
Not guaranteed in a world where nothing is guaranteed.
- [00:12]
Josh Shapiro
AT&T is bringing something new to the table.
- [00:15]
Stephen A. Smith
AT&T is introducing a guarantee with connectivity you can depend on deals you want and service you deserve or they make it right. Learn more@att.com guarantee at&t connecting changes everything.
- [00:29]
Josh Shapiro
Terms and conditions apply.
- [00:30]
Stephen A. Smith
Visit att.com guaranty for details.
- [00:37]
Josh Shapiro
Hi, I'm Daniel Tosh, host of new.
- [00:39]
Stephen A. Smith
Podcast called Tosh show brought to you by iheart Podcasts.
- [00:42]
Josh Shapiro
I'll be interviewing people that I find interesting. So not celebrities and certainly not comedians. We'll be covering topics like religion, travel, sports, gambling, but mostly it will be about being a working mother. If you're looking for a podcast that will educate and inspire inspire or one.
- [00:59]
Daniel Tosh
That will really make you think this.
- [01:01]
Josh Shapiro
Isn'T the one for you, listen to Tosh show on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [01:19]
Stephen A. Smith
Welcome to the special edition of the Stephen A. Smith Show. I call it a special edition because of who I am about to talk to. I am honored to have my next guest. He is the 48th governor of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. And obviously we know he's sitting here with me in New Orleans because the Philadelphia Eagles played in the Super Bowl. I'm talking about the Pennsylvania governor himself, Mr. Josh Shapiro. How are you, sir?
- [01:42]
Josh Shapiro
How's everything? Great to be with you, Stephen.
- [01:45]
Stephen A. Smith
I couldn't wait to talk to you because there's so many things to talk to you about outside of sports. We talked about our sports the other day and now here we go. We're going to get in your wheelhouse right now. And you've seen The President, the 47th President of the United States, Donald Trump, handing down an abundance of executive orders. And that's something that we can get into in a little while. But the first order of business is his position that essentially the US Wants to take over Gaza.
- [02:10]
Josh Shapiro
Yeah.
- [02:11]
Stephen A. Smith
What was your reaction when you heard that and when you saw him standing next to Benjamin Netanyahu, the prime minister for Israel, Why slaying?
- [02:18]
Josh Shapiro
So I thought it was an unserious proposal. I thought it was a proposal that if he actually carried it out the way he said he was, violates international law. I thought it was deeply disrespectful to the Palestinian people. I think it doesn't take into account Jordan and Egypt and how they're going to feel about it. I thought it was wrong. Look I want these hostilities to end. I want all these hostages home. I'm someone who believes that there should be a two state solution. I want the Palestinians to have a state that they can call their own. I want them to live peacefully, side by side with Israel. I think what Donald Trump did was make that harder. And again, I thought it was really unserious and unhelpful. At this time you still got about 100 ish hostages that aren't home. Why would you do anything to upset that process now? Why would you do anything like that? That's going to make it harder for those loved ones to be able to wrap their arms around those hostages, get them back from Hamas's, Hamas's control. So I didn't think it was serious. Look, I get this guy, he likes to make a lot of noise, he likes to put a lot of stuff out there, throw a bunch of stuff up against the wall and see what sticks. And I'm sure we're going to talk more about that. I just thought this was both unserious and unhelpful at this time.
- [03:38]
Stephen A. Smith
With that being said, how did you feel again about Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's response, which was pretty much nothing. I mean, it looked like he had glee on face. He certainly didn't see alarm, seem alarmed or disturbed by what the President was saying. And what do you make of that?
- [03:54]
Josh Shapiro
I think Netanyahu is playing a short term game. He's not thinking about the long term interests of Israel. He's playing a short term game to keep himself out of legal jeopardy, to keep himself in power with this really difficult coalition, that he needs to be able to stay into power. I think if you're taking a long term, sober look at Israel's safety and security, you need to figure out a way for the Palestinians to look. Drive Hamas out, drive terrorism out, of course, but have a stable home where they can focus on their economic goals, their educational goals, their other goals as a nation. And that is going to create more peace and stability in the region. And I don't think Netanyahu thinks about that at all. He's just trying to look at his short term interests.
- [04:45]
Stephen A. Smith
Why do you believe he doesn't think about that at all? I would surmise it's just a guess because I certainly don't know as much as you, but I would surmise that one of the reasons he may have short term thinking is because when we think about what Hamas did last October 7th and how they ravaged through Israel and kidnapped and murdered people and whatever Absolutely awful. No excuse for it. That was on Benjamin Netanyahu's watch.
- [05:10]
Josh Shapiro
Correct.
- [05:10]
Stephen A. Smith
And I imagine there are a plethora of people in Israel that are not very fond of him and the job he has done because they point the finger at him for that. Could that explain your assertions about his short term?
- [05:21]
Josh Shapiro
That's why I'm saying short term. The moment this war is over, which, look, God willing, this war is going to be over tomorrow, we want all these hostages home, we want the violence to end, there's going to be a whole lot of questions about why didn't he know on October 7th or what did he know and what did he ignore. His trial for corruption charges gets back going, he's going to have to answer to the 62ish, 64ish, whatever he's got now, members of his coalition, as to what the best path forward is. As long as there is continued fighting, as long as there is continued what I would describe as chaos within his ranks, he's able to be protected. That is maybe in the interest of Benjamin Netanyahu in the short term. It is not the interest of Israel in the long term. I've said for a long time, Stephen A. I, I don't think Netanyahu's got the best interests of Israel long term. Now I'm sitting in the backseat. I'm not in Israel, I'm not a voter in Israel, I'm not an Israeli citizen. I don't get a say in this. I'm answering your question as someone who's looked at this issue. I think long term you want to create an environment where 12, 13, 14, 15 year old Palestinian kids are growing up not with animosity toward Israel, but, but with hope for a brighter future for themselves. Same thing for Israeli kids. If you're able to do that, you're able to create stability in the region in the long run.
- [06:45]
Stephen A. Smith
I'm questioning its possibility. When you talk about the displacement of 1.5 million Palestinians, I'm not talking about Trump's. I know, that's what I mean. I meant Trump, I meant Trump. That's what I'm talking about. When you're talking about, when he's talking about it along those lines and you don't hear emphatic resistance to that emanating from Israel, then they're going to be viewed as being complicit, which to me is additional reasons for the fervor, the vitriol to continue moving forward. I don't see how peace comes from that.
- [07:13]
Josh Shapiro
No, I don't I don't see how peace comes from it. I don't see how it's lawful what President Trump has put forth. And again, I don't think it's in the interest of Israel long term.
- [07:23]
Stephen A. Smith
With that being said, where do you go from here as the governor of Pennsylvania, as somebody who's been seen, who's been seen as being pro Israel, as well you should, and has been criticized for that, particularly leading up to the election. I'm wondering how you feel right now about your stance, where you stand, knowing the criticism that you have received from being pro Israel and now you're taking the position.
- [07:49]
Josh Shapiro
I stand, I stand where I stand. And I don't get too highs from the too high from the love or too low from the hate. I think with any of these issues, and I'll remind Stephen, I'm the governor of Pennsylvania. I'm not the secretary of State.
- [08:01]
Stephen A. Smith
That's right.
- [08:02]
Josh Shapiro
But I got opinions on things and I'm happy to share them with you. I think you've got to study issues. I think you've got to be open to opinions that aren't your own and bring them in as you're thinking through stuff. And then ultimately you've got to make the decision that in my day job is in the best interest of Pennsylvanians, in the best interest, the future of Pennsylvania. And you got to stick to that regardless of the love you get or the hate you get on it. So, look, I'm mindful that there are some people out there that attack me. Let's be real. For. For being a proud American Jew and someone who's open about celebrating my faith and open about how my wife and I are choosing to raise our kids and proud of who we are. I get that that brings attacks from others, but that doesn't force me to change the way I think about stuff or change the way I view stuff. What I do leave myself open to are people who bring a different perspective, who are able to educate me on something I don't know about. And I'm willing to open up my mind to those things and evolve in my positions. When you evolve in your positions, when you change your position, I think it's really important, especially when you're a job like mine, to be really honest with the people you serve about why. I'll give you an example of that. Moving from Middle east to something else. I ran twice successfully for Attorney General of Pennsylvania.
- [09:23]
Stephen A. Smith
Yes, you did.
- [09:23]
Josh Shapiro
Both times I ran in support of the death penalty, honestly held view based on research, based on the Experiences that I had as an elected official and then serving as Attorney General, case by case by case, would come across my desk and I could never sign off on capital punishment. Something was bothering me about that. I spent a lot of time thinking about it, spent a lot of time looking at it more. Then my 10 year old kid came over me one day and said, dad, we don't do the death penalty in Pennsylvania, do we? And I couldn't look my kid in the eye and explain to him why we have the death penalty and why it's important. Now, I realize there's some folks out there who, who feel strongly on both sides of this, but after I thought about my kid's question, I thought about my experience as Attorney General, I changed my mind on it. And I stood up in West Philadelphia, gave a long speech to folks explaining why I had. I know there's some people that didn't like that. I changed my view on that. But I know they walked away going, you know what? That guy actually thought about it and he explained to me why he is the way he is on that. I share that example with you because I'm not going to be bullied into changing my position one way or the other based on the noise that comes from people attacking me about being Jewish or attacking me about my support of Israel. But I am going to always be open to different perspective, different ideas, different thoughts, and communicate with the public, with my constituents in Pennsylvania as to why or how I've evolved on an issue, if not better.
- [10:57]
Stephen A. Smith
Do you think that makes you distinctively different from the President of the United States, from the Republican Party as we speak, considering how dogged they may be in their positions and how they don't necessarily change, at least publicly?
- [11:12]
Josh Shapiro
Here's what I'll say. I don't know how the President makes decisions or thinks about issues. And I'm not trying to be a jerk saying that. I really don't. I don't have an insight into how he thinks through an issue and arrives at a conclusion. I differ from him on a lot of his conclusions, but I don't know the process. The folks that I have a problem with are the enablers who know better. These members of Congress who have basically given up their constitutional responsibilities, the Republican elected leaders who will come to me and whisper in my ear, can you believe he said that? I don't agree with that. Whatever. And then you see these guys out at a press conference the next day, oh, Donald Trump's the best. I agree with them on this. I agree with him on that. Those are the folks I have a problem with and how they go through those mental gymnastics and sleep at night, I don't know.
- [12:00]
Stephen A. Smith
See, I view them. If I may make a statement here, I view them.
- [12:04]
Josh Shapiro
It's your show. You get to make whatever statement.
- [12:06]
Stephen A. Smith
I mean, people, people use derogatory terms, gutless or whatever, and I say, okay. But to me, they are scared to death because this is a man that has proven he will get you out of office. And if you're addicted to power and influence and it comes from sitting in one of those seats in the House of Congress, you're gonna do everything you can to hold on to what you have. And that's why they capitulate. Look at Ted Cruz. He talked about his wife. Look at Marco Rubio. I am aligned. Marco Rubio, now he's the Secretary of State. I mean, look of this stuff.
- [12:37]
Josh Shapiro
Profoundly weak people. Tell you something, you insult my wife, we're not going to be on the same team.
- [12:43]
Stephen A. Smith
That's right.
- [12:43]
Josh Shapiro
And I just. I find these folks to be ridiculous. First off, they've got a constitutional responsibility that the citizens of their states or their districts gave them. This is part of the whole checks and balances. We teach our kids this in elementary school. Fact is, they have given up on that. And this isn't about issue A or B. Right. We can debate these issues whether we agree, disagree. The fact is that they have a responsibility to play. And it's not just saying, yeah, Mr. President, whatever you want. They have a constitutional responsibility to do their jobs. And they're not. Those are the folks that bother me the most in our politics.
- [13:18]
Stephen A. Smith
What about the notion that people will look at Democrats and when we talk about the Republicans not having much spine, what about on the Democratic side where it got to a point, at least in my estimation, as just a conscientious observer, it got to a point where people were scared of their own shadows because of the cancel culture that existed. And a lot of people obviously believe that the Democratic Party provoked that mind, that level of thinking. What about that? What about people who look at the Democratic Party and some of the members of the.
- [13:48]
Josh Shapiro
It's fair criticism.
- [13:49]
Stephen A. Smith
Yes.
- [13:49]
Josh Shapiro
And it's a criticism that I levied against folks in our party for years. Not trying to personalize it about candidate A or B. But yeah, I think we started walking around on eggshells. I think it is important to treat people with respect. I think it's important to respect people for who they are. I think it's important to not bully other people in our society. But you can't go to such an extreme that you end up talking past folks and you end up not actually being able to listen to people and the feelings they have, the emotions they have, the desires they have, because you feel like you have to follow a certain set of rules or practices, otherwise you don't get to be in the room. And I think that's been a problem for a lot of years. I don't do my politics that way. I don't govern that way. And I would argue I govern the toughest, most swingiest state in the entire country. And I'm proud of what we've been able to do there to bring people together and to not bully others, but to also not get ourselves so caught up in an extreme that we're not able to have an honest conversation with people.
- [14:57]
Stephen A. Smith
Do you believe that's what lost the election for Kamala Harris? What? We're just what we just finished talking about the general consensus about the thinking associated with the Democratic Party.
- [15:06]
Josh Shapiro
I mean, I'm not going to duck your question, but I'm going to say I'm not a pundit here, and I get that, you know, like in sports, you know, you lose a game on Sunday, you got to spend time on Monday trying to figure out what happens. So when you start practicing Tuesday for the next game next weekend, you're better. Right. And I get that there's going to be folks doing that analysis, and I think that that is a fair question you are asking. That can be part of the analysis. But I think that this has been years in the making. I've seen it in rural communities in Pennsylvania where, by the way, I did quite well as a Democrat running in those areas where Democrats stop showing up, stop treating our farmers with respect, by the way, our farmers maybe do the most noble work in society. They feed our neighbors. Right. National Democratic Party for a lot of years started defining success as having a college degree. Let me tell you something, Stephen, a 62% of Pennsylvania adults don't have a college degree. So if you're one of those 62%, you look at the Democratic Party, this is years and years and years in the making. And you're being told, well, success is defined by something you don't have. Well, all of a sudden you're going to start to say, are those folks really? For me, I've tried to govern differently. Hell, my first day in office, I signed an executive order doing away with the college degree requirement to work in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania.
- [16:33]
Stephen A. Smith
Wow.
- [16:33]
Josh Shapiro
60% of the people I've hired in Pennsylvania don't have a college degree. We're better for respecting people from all different walks of life. I think our party for a lot of years started getting away from that. Now, the answer part of it is that Monday morning analysis you gotta do after you lose a game, lose an election. That's fair. But part of it is I think folks are looking too much to Washington and not enough to what's been happening in the states over many years. I think there's a number of governors who are doing thoughtful things that matter in people's lives. My job isn't to, you know, just give speeches and make a lot of noise. My job as a governor is to put points on the board every day for our school kids, for our farmers, for our cops, for our firefighters, for everybody. And I try and do that in a way that lifts everybody up, doesn't shut people out, doesn't do it with an attitude of elitism or extremism. And it's working in Pennsylvania.
- [17:31]
Stephen A. Smith
But think about it. If I remember correctly, doing my research, I was reading up about how a Republican led effort for millions upon millions of dollars in school vouchers was something that you supported, if I remember correctly. And you got criticized for that by your own party.
- [17:43]
Josh Shapiro
Yep.
- [17:44]
Stephen A. Smith
I mean, so I'm looking at it from that standpoint. I'm saying, wait a minute here. At some point in time, do you pause? I'm not talking about you. I'm talking about them. Other members of your party, that is. And I'm saying, look at what this man is doing in the state of Pennsylvania. Look at the reputation that he has. Look at how popular he has. You guys have said he hasn't really had any competition. Well, I'm from the Jordan era. Yeah, it wasn't a lot of competition because he made it look like it wasn't. It wasn't competitive because he annihilated.
- [18:11]
Josh Shapiro
Still the greatest. I yell at my kids all the time. That's right.
- [18:14]
Stephen A. Smith
It's Jordan. It's not LeBron. It's not LeBron. But we'll talk about that another day. My point is to use that analogy towards you. You would think that knowing all of this, seeing your record, seeing a state like Pennsylvania, knowing how rabid the base is, not just as fans of their sports teams, but even their politicians, that knowing that you had such popularity in that state, it would be a no brainer, considering the importance of the state of Pennsylvania, that Kamala Harris would have chosen you as our vice presidential nominee. But that did not happen, sir.
- [18:46]
Josh Shapiro
Yeah. And look, Stephen, I said all along, Kamala Harris had a deeply personal decision to make. Who she wanted to run with, who she wanted to govern the country with. In the end of the day, I had a personal decision to make, too.
- [19:01]
Stephen A. Smith
Okay.
- [19:01]
Josh Shapiro
And I love being governor. I love being able to chart my own course. I love being able to meet a Pennsylvanian on their farm, on the streets of Philadelphia, hear their problem and actually do something about it. Get shit done for them. I always want to be in a job where I can make real change, make decisions and make things happen. And I love being governor of Pennsylvania.
- [19:25]
Stephen A. Smith
So is that your way of saying that it was a job that you didn't want because you wanted to be governor?
- [19:31]
Josh Shapiro
It's my way of telling you how much I love being governor and also respecting the fact that she had a decision to make. She made it. I think Tim Walls is a good guy. I wish they would have won. I campaigned my heart out for them. I worked hard to make sure to do my best to help make sure they won. And they came up short.
- [19:47]
Stephen A. Smith
Well, let me be more direct, sir. If she had offered you the vice presidential position, would you have accepted?
- [19:53]
Josh Shapiro
I think. I think it is not worth going back and kind of Monday morning quarterbacking it or going into hypotheticals. I also want to be respectful of the Vice president, not get into our private conversations as well. I can tell you that I love my work. I love being able to do my work on my terms. I love being able to do my work and still be a father to our four kids and a husband, and love my life since the ninth grade. And the best way for me to serve the public, to be able to meet the obligations that I've learned about from the way my parents taught me and the way my faith teaches me, is to be governor of Pennsylvania right now.
- [20:35]
Stephen A. Smith
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- [21:54]
Josh Shapiro
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Stephen A. Smith
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Josh Shapiro
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Josh Shapiro
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Josh Shapiro
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Stephen A. Smith
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- [22:20]
Larison Campbell
There's a type of soil in Mississippi called Yazoo clay. It's thick, burnt orange, and it's got a reputation.
- [22:28]
Josh Shapiro
It's terrible, terrible dirt.
- [22:30]
Larison Campbell
Yazoo clay eats everything, so things that get buried there tend to stay buried until they're not. In 2012, construction crews at Mississippi's biggest hospital made a shocking discovery.
- [22:44]
Stephen A. Smith
7,000 bodies out there or more, all.
- [22:47]
Larison Campbell
Former patients of the old state asylum, and nobody knew they were there.
- [22:52]
Stephen A. Smith
It was my family's mystery.
- [22:55]
Larison Campbell
But in this corner of the south, it's not just the soil that keeps secrets.
- [22:59]
Josh Shapiro
Nobody talks about it.
- [23:01]
Larison Campbell
Nobody has any information. When you peel back the layers of Mississippi's Yazoo clay, nothing's ever as simple as you think.
- [23:08]
Josh Shapiro
The story is much more complicated and nuanced than that.
- [23:13]
Larison Campbell
I'm Larison Campbell. Listen to Andre yazukle on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.
- [23:27]
Stephen A. Smith
We started off this conversation by talking about the Israeli Palestinian conflict. Yeah, that obviously had transpired at the time she needed to make a decision. Speculation was that there were some folks who didn't know whether you would be the right guy because you were Jewish, because you were pro Israel, et cetera. This is the year 2025.
- [23:50]
Josh Shapiro
Yeah.
- [23:51]
Stephen A. Smith
And yet we're weeks removed from that. Still being mentioned as a concern. What does that say to you about the state of America right now? That that is still a concern in some people's lives.
- [24:04]
Josh Shapiro
You know, I. I heard a little bit of that noise. I know there's a lot of noise online about that. I don't really pay much attention to that. But I gotta tell you, man, when I travel across Pennsylvania, and I think we can agree, the ultimate swing state, right? You want to be president of the United States? You're Donald Trump. Kamala Harris. You gotta win Pennsylvania. I tell you, I go across the state and folks open up to me about their faith because I'm a person of faith. I find that it allows me to have a greater connection with my constituents, with my fellow Pennsylvanians. I find that it is a value add, not a. Not a divisive thing. Remember, I'm. I'm literally someone who is followed in a line of leaders of Pennsylvania. I followed William Penn, a guy who created the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, as a place that would be warm and welcoming for all people of all faiths. Now, I'm not sure Penn ever imagined there'd be a Jewish governor, right? But I think that's a spirit that we have always had, that we're a place that's tolerant, we're a place that's welcoming. And so, yeah, I know there's a lot of noise that was surrounding that, you know, in our national politics. But my experience when you're actually out talking to folks, when you're out engaging with them, is folks are really good and honorable and decent. They may not worship the way you do, but they appreciate that you're a person of faith, that you're grounded in something, and it gives them something to connect with you on.
- [25:35]
Stephen A. Smith
Is it fair to say that the Jewish community shares exactly what you just expressed? Because we've been hearing a lot about anti Semitism. And one of the things that I point to is that I'm not Jewish. I can't stand when people who are not black try to tell black people about what they're experiencing. It gets on my last nerves because you don't know. But I will tell you, as a black individual, I'm not Jewish. You would know better than me. When we. When we hear anti Semitism, how real is that issue in this day and age?
- [26:08]
Josh Shapiro
Anti Semitism is on the rise, okay? That is an empirical fact. I still think the vast, vast, vast, vast, vast majority of people are good and decent and respectful. But it is true that it is on the rise. I think that there are a number of reasons for that, but one that I think has been driving a lot of this is the fact that too oftentimes we don't have leaders speaking and acting with moral clarity, giving certain folks who are spewing antisemitism or other forms of bigotry a passion or actually allowing their words to be misappropriated by someone who's hateful to use that as a tool to attack others. I think we see that from the President, United States, at times, and it's dangerous. And so I think that is something that we have to guard against. And every leader has that responsibility. Speak and act moral clarity. I try to do that and I think if more leaders did that, you'd see the incidents of antisemitism, racism, hatred, bigotry in all forms begin to be reduced in our society. It's never going to get rid of it, but it's going to be reduced. I just can't stress enough, though. Stephen A. As I get around, as I talk to people, as I'm in their communities, most people are really good and decent and honorable folks. They'll stand up to someone who's bullying someone in their community or or online.
- [27:42]
Stephen A. Smith
I completely agree.
- [27:43]
Josh Shapiro
And that gives me hope, that gives me a sense of optimism. I'm not sure our politics are keeping up with where the community is right now, but it is something that I think gets lost a lot of times in our media or online. I'm not, I'm not someone who bashes the media, but I think sometimes that storyline gets missed.
- [28:01]
Stephen A. Smith
Could politics be what's bringing our society down?
- [28:06]
Josh Shapiro
In based on what you're saying, part it is because I think leaders have a responsibility to speak in actual moral clarity and too many of them don't right now.
- [28:14]
Stephen A. Smith
What do you say? Because we know some of the rhetoric the president has used, as you alluded to and what have you, and obviously that's problematic at times, no doubt. But there's another side, too. Just the other day we saw Democrats really pushing back on Doge's apartment. You know, Elon Musk and his department of. Yeah, you know, don't get me started with that. And the verbiage, the language they use, some would say that kind of rhetoric is exactly what we don't need either. How are you any better as a party than what you're describing the other side to be? There are folks who look at Democrats and they say that now.
- [28:59]
Josh Shapiro
Yeah. And look, I didn't see the specific thing you're talking about, but I'm not going to duck what you're saying because I think you make an important point in general. I think you do have too much of this rhetoric in both parties. That is divisive. That is too white hot. That is. That is just making it harder to find common ground. I get the Theatrics of politics. Right. I get that there are some folks out there in Pennsylvania who, yeah, they gotta, like, sort of show that they're fighting with me to their constituents so they can score some political points. But you know what? You got to get your ass around the table and also make some progress and work on things together. And so I was trying, you know, keep that in mind with my rhetoric. And as I, you know, deal with. With others across the aisle in Pennsylvania, I think we've got to learn from the way we try and do business in our commonwealth at the national level. I don't think that kind of rhetoric, no matter what party's engaged in it, is helpful and it further divides us and it breeds more cynicism in our society. And when you've got a public that gets cynical, a few things happen. Number one, you kind of lurch back and forth in politics. Well, I'm pissed at these guys, so I'm voting for these guys. How many times have we seen that over the last 20 years, Stephen? A right Democratic wave, Republican wave. I think a lot of that is because people are angry and there's cynicism, and so they're going back and forth, and it makes it harder to actually get stuff done that matters to people.
- [30:34]
Stephen A. Smith
Do you tell this to your own party? I mean, when people think about the squad or they think about the progressives on the extreme. Look, the mag is on the right. You know, you can say what you got to say to them, because you're absolutely right. But on the left as well. Do you say this stuff to your own party?
- [30:45]
Josh Shapiro
You know, I don't know that it's my job to lecture other Democrats. I think what my job is, is to be a hell of a good governor in Pennsylvania. That shows you can get elected with not just Democratic votes, but Republican independent votes as well. I'll tell you, I got more votes than anybody ever in the history of Pennsylvania running for governor. I'm not saying to pat myself on the back. I'm saying that because as a empirical fact, the only way you get the numbers I got is by having Republicans and independents vote for you along with Democrats. I'm governing in a way where our ratings show Republicans, independents still support the work I'm doing. I think the best thing I can do is not lecture people in my party or the other party, but show that you can do common sense things. You can bring people together and you can get stuff done.
- [31:34]
Stephen A. Smith
But, Governor, do they come to you for advice? Because, I mean, you're winning you're doing your job. So you would think that if you. You. You've got a formula that can be emulated. I mean, listen, I'm a thief. I steal successful habits all the time. I see a successful habit, I'm stealing it. Okay. I'm going to master it. I'm going to learn. I'm going to do what I have to do because I want to win.
- [31:54]
Josh Shapiro
Sure.
- [31:55]
Stephen A. Smith
What about folks that get. They don't reach out to you for this?
- [31:58]
Josh Shapiro
No, they do. I'm just saying I'm happy to have those conversations with a candidate running for office, with party committees and groups and what have you, and I do, but I don't think sort of engaging in a public beating of people in my party or the other. I don't think that's particularly helpful. I think the best thing I can do is lead by example in the Commonwealth, and that's what I'm trying to do every day.
- [32:21]
Stephen A. Smith
Let's get back to Trump in this regard. These executive orders that he's been handing out, like Skittles, crying out loud. I mean, it's something special.
- [32:30]
Josh Shapiro
Sharpie.
- [32:30]
Stephen A. Smith
It's unbelievable. I mean, he's got a fresh shop.
- [32:33]
Josh Shapiro
Most of them aren't worth the paper they're written on, by the way.
- [32:35]
Stephen A. Smith
I'm wondering what your thoughts have been about the executive orders A and B. Is there one. Is there any one particular that alarms you more than the others?
- [32:46]
Josh Shapiro
Yeah, I think the one that alarms me the most is the one that actually, of all the things he signed, is the only one that's absolute. And that is when he pardoned people who assaulted cops on January 6. When he granted clemency to people that assaulted cops on January 6. I think that shows an utter lack of respect for law enforcement. Listen, I'm someone who for years has respected law enforcement. We invest in law enforcement in Pennsylvania. I have their backs. They screw up, they're going to be held accountable. But I got their backs. I understand how central safety is and law and order is proper. Law and order that respects people's constitutional rights is for a civilized society. And the fact that on his first day, using the power of that Sharpie pen, gave those folks a pardon says a lot about his values and something I really strongly disagree with.
- [33:51]
Stephen A. Smith
Now, just to be clear.
- [33:53]
Josh Shapiro
Go ahead.
- [33:53]
Stephen A. Smith
Do you believe. Are you of that position for anybody who stormed the Capitol that day or just those who engage? There are those on the right that say some of them were lawless, not all of them.
- [34:08]
Josh Shapiro
All.
- [34:08]
Stephen A. Smith
Do you differentiate at all?
- [34:10]
Josh Shapiro
Of course. You have to differentiate between someone who was, you know, assaulting a cop versus someone who wasn't. Of course there's a difference. But look, Stephen, A. I mean, these folks were prosecuted. A jury of their peers heard the evidence and convicted them. I'm not going to stand here right now and say this sentence was too weak, this sentence was too strong. Whatever. You asked me a question, I'm answering it directly. You asked me what, you know, what is it about, you know, the things that he signed that, you know, what do you think of that? I thought that was the most disturbing thing. And, you know, in a civilized society, you've got to have rule of law being respected by all people. You got to make sure that people's constitutional rights are protected in the process. And I just thought using the stroke of that pen to do that on the first day sent a really poor message.
- [35:05]
Stephen A. Smith
Department of Government Efficiency, it was created. It was not something that was in existence before Trump got there. Your thoughts about its existence and a non elected official like Elon Musk running it?
- [35:20]
Josh Shapiro
Well, look, I'll just tell you, in Pennsylvania, I've worked my tail off to cut costs, put money back in people's pockets. I've cut taxes five, six times. I've, I've proposed in my most recent budget to cut taxes even more. We're trying to make childcare more affordable, help seniors stay in their homes, help our small businesses. We're trying to bring down the cost of goods and services to put money back in people's pockets. And one of the ways we are doing that and also still being able to invest in our schools, in public safety and economic development is by eliminating wasteful spending in Pennsylvania. So I'm all for eliminating wasteful spending and I'm glad they've got a crew that's looking at that now. I mean, I kind of have to laugh. This goes back to the beginning of our conversation about members of Congress, right? I mean, this money doesn't just go out willy nilly. The way it happens is members of Congress vote for these appropriations bills and a president signs it into law. So those members decided, hey, they want a million dollars going to the Stephen A. Smith Society or whatever, and then to not actually spend that money and have the members of Congress that supported it not stand up and say, wait a minute, we got some constitutional responsibility here. We sent the money out. That, to me is a little crazy, right? So, yeah, I think we should be cutting back on wasteful spending. I think you got to go through a legal process to do that. I am glad the Trump administration is looking at it. I think we've wasting too much money for too long and it's not dissimilar to the kind of work we're doing in Pennsylvania to cut costs.
- [36:56]
Stephen A. Smith
Your thoughts about his position on diversity, equity and inclusion? DEI being completely eradicated and eliminated. Your thoughts?
- [37:03]
Josh Shapiro
You know, you referenced before all the EOs he signed, executive orders he signed and a whole bunch of them have to do with so called dei. It seems to me that they're using that as an excuse for everything from the horrific plane crash in Washington D.C. to the fact that they do not have a plan to do the one thing that people really wanted Donald Trump to do, which is to cut costs in our communities. I haven't seen any EOs about making eggs any cheaper. Stephen A. I don't know if milk or gas or any of these other things, so I'd like to see him focusing on that when it comes to this issue of dei. You didn't kind of ask me this directly, but I do want you to know where I am on this. I mentioned William Penn before.
- [37:57]
Stephen A. Smith
Yes.
- [37:58]
Josh Shapiro
And I take very seriously my responsibility as a governor that we have a place that is warm and welcoming for all, that respects all people, no matter what you look like, where you come from, who you love, who you pray to, that doesn't pit one group against the other and that respects people for who they are and doesn't make people feel guilty for who they are. I have never thought that DEI should be vested with one employee or one office. I think it is a mindset of respect for all, of acknowledging our shared history and making sure that opportunity is available for all Pennsylvanians in my case or for all Americans. What I don't like about what the President's doing is he uses these sharpie signed executive orders to bully other people. And I think that's bullshit. If you're a president, you're a governor, you're a mayor, you're a leader of a community, you got a responsibility to lift everybody up, not talk certain people down, not pit one person against the other. That makes everybody's life less safe and it's bad for our society.
- [39:12]
Stephen A. Smith
Let me share my position with you about DEI real quick to see if you agree. What I've said publicly dei. What I don't like about what I've seen the right doing since Trump has gotten into office and signed these yo's is that you're making the claim that anybody associated with Di DEI was unqualified, incompetent, And I said, first of all, that's wrong. But secondly, and most importantly, as was, as was the case with the Rooney Rule in the National Football League, as was the case with affirmative action, we're just going to ignore why it was, it was put into place to begin with. We're going to ignore the origin of its, its existence. It existed because there was unfair, unfairness and inequities that were being practiced and it needed to be addressed. That's why the programs came in play to begin with. So it seems like we have a segment of our society that wants to ignore the reality of.
- [40:11]
Josh Shapiro
So I'm talking about our shared history. We have to understand that. And you gotta be building a society where everybody's got opportunity, not where you're pitting one against the other, but where everybody's got opportunity. That's what I'm trying to do in Pennsylvania and also trying to make clear that, you know, when a black owned business does well in my commonwealth, it doesn't mean that that small business next door owned by someone who looks like me has to do worse off. This is not a zero sum game. We can lift everybody up. One of the things I'm most proud of is the work we're doing to bring a high quality education to every zip code in Pennsylvania. Right? We gotta make sure that a child that looks like me has a shot and a child that looks like you has a shot. And we shouldn't be pitting those kids against one another either in the way we teach them or in the way we fund their schools.
- [41:06]
Larison Campbell
There's a type of soil in Mississippi called Yazoo clay. It's thick, burnt orange, and it's got a reputation.
- [41:14]
Josh Shapiro
It's terrible, terrible dirt.
- [41:15]
Larison Campbell
Yazoo clay eats everything, so things that get buried there tend to stay buried until they're not. In 2012, construction crews at Mississippi's biggest hospital made a shocking discovery.
- [41:29]
Stephen A. Smith
7,000 bodies out there or more, all.
- [41:33]
Larison Campbell
Former patients of the old state asylum. And nobody knew they were there.
- [41:38]
Stephen A. Smith
It was my family's mystery.
- [41:40]
Larison Campbell
But in this corner of the south, it's not just the soil that keeps secrets.
- [41:45]
Josh Shapiro
Nobody talks about it.
- [41:46]
Larison Campbell
Nobody has any information. When you peel back the layers of Mississippi's Yazoo clay, nothing's ever as simple as you think.
- [41:54]
Josh Shapiro
The story is much more complicated and nuanced than that.
- [41:59]
Larison Campbell
I'm Larison Campbell. Listen to under yazukle on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.
- [42:09]
Daniel Tosh
Have you ever wondered, if your pet is lying to you?
- [42:11]
Josh Shapiro
Why is my cat not here and I go in and she's eating my lunch.
- [42:14]
Daniel Tosh
Or if hypnotism real, you will use the suggestion in order to enhance your cognitive control. What's inside a black hole?
- [42:21]
Josh Shapiro
Black holes could be a consequence of the way that we understand the universe.
- [42:24]
Daniel Tosh
Well, we have answers for you in the new I Heart original podcast Science Stuff. Join me Jorge Cham as we tackle questions you've always wanted to know the answer to about animals, space, our brains and our bodies. Questions like can you survive being cryogenically frozen?
- [42:39]
Josh Shapiro
This is experimental. This means never work for you.
- [42:42]
Daniel Tosh
What's a quantum computer?
- [42:44]
Josh Shapiro
It's not just a faster computer, it performs in a fundamentally different way.
- [42:47]
Daniel Tosh
Do you really have to wait 30 minutes after eating before you can go swimming?
- [42:50]
Josh Shapiro
It's not really a safety issue, it's.
- [42:52]
Daniel Tosh
More of a comfort issue. We'll talk to experts, break it down, and give you easy to understand explanations to fascinating scientific questions. So give yourself permission to be a science geek and listen to science stuff on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [43:13]
Stephen A. Smith
Immigration I have to confess to you, I'm liberal in my thinking. I'm a fiscal conservative and a social liberal. I've always been that way, even though I mostly vote Democrat. Here's the deal. I'm looking at his position in closing the borders and I must say I could not disagree with him because of Biden. President Joe Biden opening the borders when he took office. And I took into consideration Barack Obama. Barack Obama was once joked about, I shouldn't say joked, but he was once deporter in chief. Deporter in chief. So he certainly practiced it. He, he, he, he, he campaigned on it. He let it be known. He said what he had to say, then he went out and did it. But he didn't stick out his chest and brag about it. He just did the job. I'm looking at Biden and you come into office after he departs. Four years after he departs. Trump has his administration for four years. Then you come into office and to me you went against what Obama was doing and you opened the borders and that's what caused a lot of this right now. To that you say what I would say.
- [44:18]
Josh Shapiro
You have your facts right and that's important. Cuz a lot of the conversation about immigration has been devoid of facts. You go look, Barack Obama was deporting way more people than Donald Trump.
- [44:27]
Stephen A. Smith
Yes, he did.
- [44:29]
Josh Shapiro
I think it's also true to say that there was a border challenge during the Biden administration. I have for years and years and years said the same thing. We need a secure border. We must make sure our border is secure. Some places it requires a fence, some places it requires technology, some place it requires personnel, you name it. But you gotta have a secure border and you've gotta have clear rules of the road to enter this country. Someone who wants to come to America, I want you to come here, follow the rules, and I want you to make this country even better by bringing your talents, by bringing your heart, your passion, your drive to this great nation. Follow the rules. I also think because we have had these challenges for so many years, you've got to acknowledge the more than 10 million people who are here, who came here illegally and have a path for them going forward. Whether that path is deporting them because they've violated the law here, or that path is saying, you've been here long enough, you're part of our society, you're working here, your kids go to school here, you name it, you own a house, whatever. We're going to make sure that there is now a pathway for you for citizenship. I think that's common sense. I think that's where most people are. I think what Donald Trump has been doing in his early days, he's actually, by the way, not meeting the numbers that Obama had, but he's doing a lot of PR around it. He's scaring the shit out of a lot of communities. He's pitting people against one another. I got no problem if you want to deport someone who broke the law while they're here, who harmed someone while they're here, you name it. But I do think you've got to have a comprehensive immigration solution. Something I've been calling for, for years.
- [46:16]
Stephen A. Smith
And neither side pulled it off. I'm sorry, neither side has pulled it.
- [46:19]
Josh Shapiro
Neither side has pulled off. And by the way, I think you also have to have a comprehensive immigration solution that acknowledges the workforce issues we have in this country, that actually listens to what farmers need in their communities, listens to what states need, listens to the way immigration, immigrants have enhanced our economy in, in many ways. And I think you have to have that kind of honest conversation. Lawmakers have to come together and finally pass comprehensive immigration reform. We were on the 1 yard line about a year ago when Donald Trump said to members of Congress, back out.
- [46:57]
Stephen A. Smith
Because he wanted to use.
- [46:59]
Josh Shapiro
To use. The issue goes back to the point I was making before. You got a whole bunch of Republican lawmakers who seemingly are swearing an oath to Donald Trump and Not the Constitution. Every day. That's dangerous for our society. We do need comprehensive immigration reform. We need a secure border, and we need a pathway for those who are here.
- [47:18]
Stephen A. Smith
Today, around 10,000 employees of the USAID, the Agency for International Development, are expected to be fired, furloughed, or put on leave. Your thoughts about his position with that?
- [47:28]
Josh Shapiro
You know, I, I don't know. And not ducking your question, but I don't know enough of the specifics of what's going on there.
- [47:34]
Stephen A. Smith
Okay.
- [47:35]
Josh Shapiro
But I do know this. Members of Congress voted for a bill that funded all these operations at usaid. It was signed by the President, United States. It is lawful. Whatever Donald Trump chooses to do at usaid, it needs to be lawful. He can't just do this unilaterally, given the laws that are in place going forward. If he wants to propose a new law that does away with USAID or curtails its operations, that's certainly his prerogative. He won the election. He gets to put his mark on things. But he's not a king. He doesn't get to just sign an executive order and say, this is the way it's going to be. When there is a law in place, his executive order doesn't get to Trump.
- [48:20]
Stephen A. Smith
Then he is the closest thing to a king. I certainly don't look at him that way, but he is the closest thing to a king. When you consider the Republicans and how they're at his beck and call right now in the House, in the Senate, et cetera, it's like he's put people in there. And I brought up Hegseth, obviously, Matt Gaetz didn't get the position that he was, that he was shooting for his Attorney General. Pam Bondi is now in there. You see a lot of these folks that are in office right now, and clearly the loyalty and the fealty to him appears to be his top priority. So certainly you're not gonna call him a king in a complimentary way, particularly in a democratic society that is the United States of America. But nevertheless, the fear that people had seems a bit real because of the cachet and the power that he wields. And you have folks in this country who voted for, who says that's exactly what we need because Washington has spent decades not getting things done. How do you argue against that thing?
- [49:18]
Josh Shapiro
You gotta unpack a lot of what you just said. There's a lot of different important threads there that, that I want to talk about. One, the president is using his hard power and soft power. He is flooding the zone. Whether you agree with his positions or not, and I don't agree with many of them. Putting that aside for a moment, you have to appreciate the fact that he's pushing as hard as he can, trying to expand his power as much as he can can. If you look at a lot of what he's doing, though, it goes against the bounds of the law. It is outside of what the law allows. And that is where these members of Congress and others who constitutionally are required to be a check on him are not doing their jobs. There are laws in place that he can't get around just by signing an executive order or having a loud and angry press conference. He wants to change the law. He's got to go through that lawmaking process and get himself the votes in the House, get himself the votes in the Senate and get a bill to his desk. I fault those members of Congress who are not standing up and doing their part. As to the American people who say, we wanted this kind of change, we wanted this kind of disruption, I get that. I'm not denying you that. But the way we make change in this country, the way we disrupt things in this country, is by working within the bounds of the Constitution of the United States. And we have seen in the early days the President of the United States trying to go outside the bounds of the Constitution. He thought he could do away with birthright citizenship written in the Constitution by signing executive order. A court slapped him down immediately. He thought he could freeze federal funding, funding that had been duly appropriated to the states. Quickly, there was an injunction put in place saying he couldn't do that. So I guess, look, I don't blame the guy for trying to expand his power. Right. I don't agree with what he's trying to do. The folks that I've got a real problem with are the people who constitutionally are required to stand up to that.
- [51:21]
Stephen A. Smith
Who aren't, well, the Democrat. What's the Democratic Party going to do about it? Because I've been on record saying, who's the voice? Who's the face of the Democratic Party? Because it takes a face and a voice to beat the kind of following he's built. I know he doesn't get to run for office again. Even though you had some Republican representative that wanted to push for a third turn for Donald Trump. Don't get me started with that nonsense. But considering J.D. vance is there, consider Marco Rubio as the Secretary of State, considering the fact that they're now a part of that and the position, how he's positioning somebody to take the reins when he's gone. What is the Democratic Party's answer going to be to that? I see Josh Shapiro. I see Wes Moore. I'm not going to lie to you. I'm just being honest. I'm allowed my opinion. I don't see much else right now.
- [52:07]
Josh Shapiro
Okay. First off, Wes is a great guy and he's doing a great job as governor and. And we're good buddies. I think you're wrong, respectfully, sir, by saying who's the face of the Democratic Party and how is that person going to stop Donald Trump? There will be a face of the Democratic Party when the next presidential race rolls around and Democrats choose to nominate someone to fill that void. In the meantime, I think the answer is not who is the face, but who are the faces?
- [52:43]
Stephen A. Smith
Okay.
- [52:43]
Josh Shapiro
Who are the people doing this work? I would say to you, respectfully, stop looking at D.C. all the time. Look to what's happening in the states. Look to how Democrats who are put in positions to govern are governing responsibly. Look at the fact that we've got Democratic governors in Kentucky and Kansas, two pretty Republican states. Look at the fact that in those three, you know, swing states, Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Donald Trump won all three. There's Democratic governors in those three states. The point I'm trying to make to you, Stephen A. Is there's not going to be one person that rises up tomorrow that becomes that voice tomorrow. But there is a lot of good things happening amongst some Democratic leaders in the states that I think we should be paying attention to, who I think show a common sense, rational approach to governing that can be really informative for the conversation the Democratic Party is going to have to have going going forward.
- [53:46]
Stephen A. Smith
I'll end this with the last couple of questions, and thank you so much for your time. I'm a sports guy.
- [53:51]
Josh Shapiro
Yeah, me too.
- [53:52]
Stephen A. Smith
And I think about competition.
- [53:54]
Josh Shapiro
Yeah.
- [53:54]
Stephen A. Smith
And so when I think about Donald Trump, I'm thinking about what does it take to beat him.
- [53:59]
Josh Shapiro
Right.
- [54:00]
Stephen A. Smith
I'm not talking about an individual per se, as somebody. Somebody's being the king or the kingmaker or anything like that. I understand it's going to take a party. I understand it's going to be a collective effort. I understand one person can't do it all. But I watched this guy stroll down some escalators in 2015, and there hasn't been a Republican that can touch him in 10 years. And so I'm saying to myself, in order to beat him, who in the party can resonate with the American people to have that kind of impact. It seems to me that it would be somebody that has a national profile because the exceptional work somebody may do locally isn't enough to offset the cachet that he has built. That's where I'm coming from.
- [54:50]
Josh Shapiro
He has no doubt been a dominant force in our politics for the last 10 years. My kids sort of awareness of politics in their early years in life are going to be shaped by Donald Trump. I don't think that's a particularly good thing, but it's the reality. And he has certainly taken over the Republican Party. Now he's not running again.
- [55:15]
Stephen A. Smith
Nope.
- [55:16]
Josh Shapiro
And there will be a backlash to the manner, to the way in which he is governing. The fact that he hasn't brought cost down, the fact that with some of the things he says, he actually potentially makes us less safer around the world. I understand people want disruption, but when they begin to see the effects of that disruption on their lives, there will be a backlash to that. Let's take tariffs as one example.
- [55:44]
Stephen A. Smith
I was going to bring that up.
- [55:46]
Josh Shapiro
He proposed to put a 25% tariff on our two biggest trading partners, Canada, Canada, Mexico. That means you're paying 25% more for most of the stuff you buy. He promised to lower costs. That's going to raise costs. There's an effect to that. Now he walked that back like he does most things, but we'll see if he actually goes forward with that in 30 days. My point to you is there will be a backlash to that. And the answer is not a Democrat who can ride down an escalator or an elevator or whatever the hell they're going to ride down, but actually Democrats who have governed with common sense, who've put points on the board and who can share a vision for this country that's actually going to bring people back together after Donald Trump has spent the last decade or more dividing them.
- [56:37]
Stephen A. Smith
Is that answer within the two party system? What if somebody said, does it need to be a Democrat? Can it be an independent? What do you say to that?
- [56:46]
Josh Shapiro
I think there's a conversation, you know, we've been having for a long time. Probably the most notable independent in sort of recent memory would be that Ross Perot.
- [56:56]
Stephen A. Smith
I was getting ready to bring him up. Ross Perot, 1992.
- [56:59]
Josh Shapiro
And so maybe there will be a third party or an independent that comes along. But I gotta tell you something, man, for all its challenges right now, I'm proud to be a Democrat. And I'm proud. Yeah, I am. And I'm proud to be a voice within the Democratic Party that is hopefully going to heal it from what we just went through and is going to help move it along in a way that broadens the conversation to include more people. Back to what I was saying before. Broadens it to people that have a high school degree and chose not to go to college because we gave that person some resources so they could go learn to be a welder. Broadens it to include more of our farmers because we invested in our heartland and did what we needed to do to help our farmers put food on the table for their families and grow their farming operations. Broadens it to include people who right now feel like our party hasn't been talking to them. That's what we've been doing in Pennsylvania. And while I recognize we gotta go through some change and some learning, that Monday morning process we were talking about before, excuse my voice. We have got to, I think, remain committed to what's at the core of our party, which is trying to look out for others, help people, lift people up, give all people a shot. That's how I'm trying to govern in Pennsylvania and that's what I think we need more of in our party.
- [58:19]
Stephen A. Smith
My last question to you, Governor. As we sit here right now, you have a lot of American people who feel the damage to this country is on the fringes. MAGA, right, extreme progressive, left, woke culture, cancel culture, etc. They think about a centrist, whether it's left or right, because they think that's where the meat of the people lie. People who are willing to compromise or open minded, as you articulated a little while ago, open to listening to other folks. Maybe you've made a mistake here or there. That thinking might be pervasive to some degree at times. But they think about, contrary to what you think, they don't think about Stephen A. Smith. I don't care what the polls say. Stephen A. Smith is not running for office. Okay? Okay. I'm not knowledgeable enough. That's not my lane.
- [59:10]
Josh Shapiro
That was for you, man.
- [59:10]
Stephen A. Smith
Don't think, don't even think about it. I'm not qualified. Okay, but you are. And there's a lot of people that look at Josh Shapiro and they say the country deserves more than him being in just Pennsylvania. We need him for the United States of America. What do you have to say about that?
- [59:33]
Josh Shapiro
That's a very humbling thing, thing that you just said. But I also think, respectfully, you're wrong on something, okay? I talk to people all the time across Pennsylvania and more and more across the country. I. I don't hear most folks saying to me, oh, I'm on the left, I'm on the right. I'm on this part. I'm this, I'm that. I think where most people are is just their common sense. They want their lives to be better. They. They want to know that the people who are serving them are looking out for their interests. They don't need to agree with me 10 out of 10 times. But if they know, like, I got their back, I got compassion in my heart, I'm fighting for them every day. That's good enough for most folks. And so where I disagree with you a little bit is I don't think this is about targeting the left or targeting the right. I think that's actually disrespectful to attack people because they support Donald Trump or they support. I agree on. On the left. I never slice and dice people like that or attack them for who they support. I think what we need more of in this country is common sense. People who are willing to have tough conversations with people in another party or with a different perspective than them. I try and surround myself with people on my senior team, in my cabinet and elsewhere who disagree with me on issues, have different life experience than I do, were raised differently than me, because that forces me to think about things in a different way. And ultimately, past policies, do things take steps that are looking out for more people than maybe I was just aware of when I began my public service career. So to get back to what you said, I mean, yeah, I'm humbled when folks acknowledge the work we're doing in Pennsylvania, you. But I don't think it's left, right, center. I think it's more like, who's on your side, who's looking out for you, who's got the skills to get done.
- [61:25]
Stephen A. Smith
Might be right, but the party makes you. I'm not. Shouldn't say. The politics make you pick a side come election day. I think that's where I'm getting at the fact you.
- [61:36]
Josh Shapiro
I don't think that's right. The politics makes you pick a party when you register.
- [61:41]
Stephen A. Smith
Okay.
- [61:41]
Josh Shapiro
Right. But come election day, and I'm proof of this, we had a whole lot of Republicans who voted for me. I think what people look to when they finally get in that ballot box is who's gonna fight for me, who's gonna look out for me, who's gonna actually solve the problems that matter most to me. It's one of the beefs I've got with Trump. You know, he's focused on so many things other than actually reducing costs. He's focused on pitting Americans against one another instead of actually saying, hey, I got all of you guys. I'm the president for everybody. I'm now going to help reduce your costs. I'm going to help make you safe. I'm going to help, you know, create a job for you. I try and do it in a way that brings people together. I don't think this is an issue where you're only dealing with your side of the field. I think you got to. You got to work. Work the whole field.
- [62:30]
Stephen A. Smith
We are here super bowl week. I can't thank you enough for giving me your time to be sitting with the governor for the last hour. I can't say enough how grateful I am for your time. I really enjoyed this conversation. Thank you. From the bott.
- [62:41]
Josh Shapiro
Well, and I'm grateful to be here with you. I'm grateful for the conversation, and I'm grateful that you are willing to use your voice outside of your comfort zone, if you will, outside of sports, which obviously you're fantastic at. And I enjoy that. You care about this country. You care about the Democratic Party, and I may not like everything you say, but you're kicking people in the ass and forcing people to think about things a little bit differently. And I appreciate that about you. And it's an honor to be here with you, Stephen.
- [63:16]
Stephen A. Smith
Thank you so much. Anytime. I'm always here for you.
- [63:18]
Josh Shapiro
Thank you.
- [63:19]
Stephen A. Smith
Thank you so much. Appreciate it. The governor of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, Mr. Josh Shapiro, right here with Stephen A. Smith. Wow. It was a privilege, y'all. Anytime you get to sit down with a governor of a state, particularly a state as formidable as Pennsylvania, what can you say? Josh Shapiro, in a lot of people's eyes, should have been the vice presidential nominee for the Democratic Party. Had he been the vice presidential nominee, who knows? It might have spelled more success for Kamala Harris. But that didn't happen. And so we move on. Who knows what the future is for him, where the future potential lies. But one thing, you know, just listening to him, hearing how he thinks, there is no doubt that if he isn't, he certainly should be a prime candidate for the presidency of the United States of America in the year 2028. We shall see in the years to come. I don't think this will be the last time you'll be hearing from him. It's certainly not the last time I intend to hear from him. And by the way, all of us should want to hear more from him. Based on the things that we heard him say today. Today. That's it for this edition of the Stephen A. Smith Show. I hope y'all enjoyed that conversation as much as I did, cuz I loved it and I'm hoping to have more of it. Till next time, everybody, it's Stephen A. Signing off. Peace and love.
- [64:47]
Daniel Tosh
What's up everyone? It's Greg Rosenthal and I'm teaming up with the King of Spring, Daniel Jeremiah. He requires me to say that we're going to be bringing you 40s and free agents the only podcast you'll need this NFL draft season. From DJs mock drafts to my top 101, free agents will have it covered for you, with all new episodes every Thursday keeping you up to date as we head to the NFL Draft. Listen to 40s and free agents starting on March 6th on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.
- [65:17]
Larison Campbell
What's up everyone? Julie Swerbinks here along with former NHL player Nate Thompson.
- [65:22]
Josh Shapiro
We're doing a new podcast together.
- [65:24]
Stephen A. Smith
Here we go.
- [65:25]
Larison Campbell
The name Energy Line with Nate and jsb.
- [65:28]
Josh Shapiro
Each week we'll get together and talk about hockey life. All topics are fair game, right?
- [65:34]
Stephen A. Smith
Exactly.
- [65:34]
Larison Campbell
And you'll never know who will drop by to join us.
- [65:37]
Josh Shapiro
Julie is pretty well connected. She has text threads going that you wouldn't believe.
- [65:42]
Larison Campbell
Listen to Nature Energy Line with Nate and jsb on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.