Government Shutdown, Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett Backlash, Texas Rep. Chip Roy, 2026 Senate Candidate Royce White, and CBS News’ Robert Costa

Summary

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The Stephen A. Smith Show – Episode Summary

Episode Date: October 16, 2025
Main Theme:
Stephen A. Smith dives into the government shutdown, the controversy surrounding Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett and his own critique, interviews with Texas Rep. Chip Roy and Minnesota Senate candidate Royce White, plus analysis from CBS News’ Robert Costa. The episode centers on sharp, unfiltered political commentary, bipartisan criticism, and honest reflection on the state of American government, media, and political discourse.

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Episode Overview

Stephen A. Smith addresses the week's biggest political stories, starting with intense backlash he’s received for questioning Rep. Jasmine Crockett’s rhetoric. He then discusses the ongoing government shutdown, healthcare debates, party divisions, and rising progressive movements. Unafraid to critique both Democrats and Republicans, Stephen A. spotlights conversations with key political figures and engages in forthright, often passionate, exchanges about the direction of the country.

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Sections and Key Discussions

1. Stephen A. Smith Addresses Jasmine Crockett Controversy

[00:18–20:35]

• Stephen A. defends his critique of Rep. Jasmine Crockett, refuting accusations of misogyny and disrespect.
  • Emphasizes that his critiques transcend party lines and demographics.
  • Rebuts claims of targeting black women: “I have a history of being critical of everybody. And also being complimentary of everybody. When you deserve the compliment, I'll give it to you. When you don't, I won't.” ([01:48], Stephen A. Smith)
  • Rejects association with the Democratic Party: “Who the hell told you I was a part of your party? Who told you I vibe with you? Have you not been listening? I don't like none of yalls.” ([02:29], Stephen A. Smith)
• Clarifies his question to Crockett:
  • Was asking if calling the President a “piece of shit” helps her constituents or electoral chances.
• Pushback on political tribalism:
  • Rails against both Republican and Democratic dysfunction.
  • Critiques Capitol Hill for “criminal” division and lack of principle.
• Calls out media and podcast critics, including references to opinions from Charlamagne tha God, Bakari Sellers, and Tamika Mallory, reading and responding to their statements.

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2. Media Reactions and Public Critique

[12:40–20:35]

• Charlamagne tha God supports critique but says Stephen A. focused too much on Crockett’s “style” over policy ([13:10]).
  • “No elected official is above critique... but you got to criticize their policy” ([12:40], Charlamagne tha God).
  • “If you’re criticizing her for the way she talks but not Trump, you buggin’” ([13:10], Charlamagne tha God).
• Stephen A. responds: “I respectfully disagree. I'm not bugging because I wasn't talking about Trump directly. I'm talking about the representatives... who you know are at his mercy.” ([13:39], Stephen A. Smith)
• Bakari Sellers’ criticism: Suggests Stephen A. is a “charlatan” lacking depth in policy ([14:40]).
  • Stephen A. scorches Sellers: “...so judgmental of other people that he is allergic to mirrors... Why don’t you teach us?” ([15:20–17:32], Stephen A. Smith)
• On identity and representation: Emphasizes family connections to rebut claims of misogyny, refusing to be drawn into “LD energy” or personal attacks.

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3. Interview: Rep. Chip Roy (R-TX)

[21:30–46:21]

Government Shutdown, ACA, and Partisan Blame

• Roy blames Democrats for prolonging the shutdown, insisting Republicans passed a “clean bill” ([21:54], Roy).
• Critiques ACA subsidies: Argues enhanced subsidies during COVID benefit wealthy Americans and insurance companies while costing taxpayers:
  • "People, you got families, friends, $25,000 a year we currently spend on health insurance to be told we can't go to the doctor we want..." ([23:35], Chip Roy).
• Roy on political posturing:
  • “I think this is a political play... to get leverage heading into and vault into the election season” ([25:05], Roy).
• Roy on healthcare realities:
  • Describes the broken system, the problem of government mandates, and red state reliance on ACA out of necessity:
  • “We've broken the system such that we've got individuals who are now reliant on these subsidies and it's creating this infinite do loop...” ([31:04], Roy).
• Personal story:
  • Reveals he’s a cancer survivor and describes ACA’s failure to provide access to top hospitals:
  • “Guess what? I can't go there now, MD Anderson is no longer on the Obamacare plan. That's a problem.” ([32:01], Roy)

Border vs. ACA – Which is Worse?

• Unable to choose, but leans toward open borders as even more damaging, citing Texas border crises, fentanyl deaths, and “the system being overwhelmed” ([34:06], Roy).

Bipartisanship and Solutions

• Admits to working with Democrats on banning Congressional stock trading ([38:32], Roy).
• Asserts that “healthcare is the toughest nut” but open to discussing market-driven reforms.

Shutdown Solution & On Politicians’ Pay

• Roy calls for five more Senate Democrats to end the shutdown.
• Personally declined his salary during the shutdown: "I will not take pay until the shutdown is over..." ([42:09], Roy).

Rising Extremism in GOP

• Addresses recent racist and antisemitic statements by young Republicans. Strongly disavows hate:
  • “There's no place for that kind of stuff from my standpoint. Not even from my standpoint, there's no place for that.” ([44:08], Roy)
  • Stresses his focus on faith, freedom, and service.

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4. Royce White: From NBA to GOP Senate Candidate

[50:10–73:39]

Shutdown and Government Critique

• White blames broad government corruption and supports shrinking the bureaucracy, regardless of which party is in power.
  • “We want to shrink the government as best as we can. We want to deconstruct the administrative state.” ([51:26], Royce White)

Party Divisions and Progressive Growth

• Sees turmoil in the Democratic Party—“the progressive left is very loud, very aggressive, and they have a lot of young, rising talent” ([54:01], White).
• Warns the progressive movement is growing (“one out of every three women 18 to 28 identify as LGBTQ”) and calls the movement “radical” ([55:31], White).

On Racial Divides and MAGA Identity

• Takes a nuanced view of MAGA, distancing from “racial animus” in party fringes and calling for focus on fighting global technocratic elites rather than “WWE” racial hype ([62:01], White).
• Offers rare criticism of MAGA: mishandling of Epstein files, silencing critics of Israel.

Outsiders in Politics and Black Political Loyalty

• Defends voices like Stephen A. joining political conversation, attacks elitism:
  • “For them to say we don’t need outsiders is a concession that the D.C. political elite... is just fine.” ([66:24], White)
• Discusses the lack of accountability for Democratic control of urban centers, arguing Black voters should apply “result orientation” seen in sports to politics ([68:22], White).

Respectful Disagreement & Growth

• Admits to previously criticizing Stephen A., but values honest, in-community critique:
  • “We need more Stephen A. Smiths. We need more black men that are willing to be honest about what's going on...” ([71:06], White)
• Applauds Stephen A. for open engagement; Stephen A. reciprocates respect, pledging to keep the dialogue open.

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5. CBS News’ Robert Costa: Analysis on Shutdown, Epstein Files, Party Dynamics

[74:03–92:35]

Why the Shutdown Drags On

• Both parties see a political edge: “Because both parties are winning by having the standoff” ([74:46], Costa).
• Dems push health care; GOP resists.

Sticking Points Beyond ACA

• Medicaid cuts also highly contentious ([74:55], Costa).

Epstein Files & Political Timing

• Arizona Rep.-elect Adelita Grijalva’s delayed swearing-in linked to a push to release Epstein files, with Dems and some GOP voices demanding transparency ([75:50], Costa).
• On why Dems didn’t push for files earlier: “Everything’s timing in context... they were focused on other things...” ([77:32], Costa).

Trump’s Control Over GOP

• “Now, the only test that matters... is loyalty [to Trump].” ([78:32], Costa)
• “You can’t win a primary... unless you have the imprimatur of President Donald Trump.” ([78:52], Costa)
• Trump’s executive power viewed as redefining the presidency: “He’s a movement.” ([80:57], Costa)

Democratic Party Infighting: Progressives on the Rise

• New York’s Zoran Mamdani seen as a potential “hammer to the system” ([84:35], Costa).
• Centrist vs. progressive Democratic candidates in key states signal a looming party identity crisis.

2026 Senate Race & Shifting Coalitions

• White’s commentary about outsiders echoes a broader desire for political change.

On Gaza Peace Deal’s Political Impact

• Trump frames himself as peacemaker.
  • “President Trump’s confident he did something historic. He’s on the cover of Time magazine…” ([86:35], Costa)
• Warns that situation is fluid; credits Trump with shifting US politics to a more executive-centric era.

Culture Wars, Identity, and Public Debate

• On the Jasmine Crockett affair: “He’s playing by his own set of rules… outsiders get tested every day.” ([91:13], Costa)

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6. Final Thoughts and Listener Q&A

[93:31–end]

• Stephen A. responds to tweets about third-party prospects, compromise, and political polarization.
  • “Keep an open mind and listen to somebody else. And if they have a better idea, hey, it’s better for America, I’ll take that.” ([94:20], Stephen A. Smith)
  • “All compromise isn’t bad because everybody doesn’t have the same wants and needs.” ([94:43], Stephen A. Smith)
• Bemoans the “gloom and doom” from both sides, calls for a forward-thinking, unified vision.

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• On criticism and respect:
  • “When you deserve the compliment, I'll give it to you. When you don't, I won't.” ([01:48], Stephen A. Smith)
• On political independence:
  • “I'm a centrist. I'm Stephen A. I'm not married to either side, don't like either of them.” ([07:33], Stephen A. Smith)
• Chip Roy on healthcare lobby:
  • “Insurance companies in the healthcare industry spend three quarters of a billion dollars, Stephen, on lobbying. That’s six times more than the defense industry.” ([23:35], Roy)
• Royce White on MAGA and elites:
  • “Our support of President Trump is the acknowledgment that in this moment, in this nation's darkest hour, he was willing to stand up against the forces...that have brought this country to our knees.” ([60:23], Royce White)
• Robert Costa on Trump’s GOP influence:
  • “The only test that matters in this moment in Washington: loyalty.” ([78:32], Costa)
• On need for outsider voices:
  • “For them to say that we don’t need outsiders is a concession that the D.C. political elite... is just fine.” ([66:24], Royce White)

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Memorable Moments

• Stephen A.’s unapologetic, energetic, and deeply personal defense against critics who accuse him of betraying his community or being disrespectful ([00:55–02:41]).
• The frank exchange about the MAGA movement’s complicated relationship with race, the Republican establishment, and America’s political structures ([57:41–62:01]).
• Costa’s detailed breakdown of the coming intraparty Democratic battle between traditional centrists and an energized progressive wing ([83:58–85:43]).

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Timestamps for Top Segments

• Jasmine Crockett controversy & Stephen A.'s defense: [00:18–20:35]
• Chip Roy interview – shutdown, healthcare, partisanship: [21:30–46:21]
• Royce White interview – shutdown, MAGA, race & politics: [50:10–73:39]
• Robert Costa analysis – shutdown, Epstein files, party control: [74:03–92:35]
• Final Q&A, third party talk, hope for unity: [93:31–end]

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Conclusion

This episode showcases Stephen A. Smith’s bold transition "beyond sports," bringing his signature candor to hard-hitting political debates and cultural discourse. With adversarial—but respectful—exchanges and in-depth interviews, the episode delivers a nuanced, engaging exploration of America’s political divisions, the search for honest leadership, the dangers of party purity, and hope for more open, rational debate. Fans of spirited, nuanced conversation—regardless of allegiance—will find this a must-listen.

Transcript

[Stephen A. Smith]

Straight Shooter with Stephen A.

[George Trulley]

What's up, everybody?

[Stephen A. Smith]

Welcome to this latest edition of Straight Shooter with yours truly, the one and only Stephen A. Smith. Coming at you, as I love to do, every Wednesday evening from 6 to 8pm over the airways of SiriusXM POTUS radio channel 124. Number to call up, as always, is 86696, POTUS. That's 86696, POTUS. 866-967-6887. You know, I don't know if I've ever cussed as many people out as I have over the last week.

[George Trulley]

I don't know if I have.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Apologies to Pastor A.R. bernard from the Christian Cultural center in Brooklyn, New York. I promised him that I would. I would cut down on my cousin. And I believe that. I've worked diligently to go in that direction, and I've done so on many occasions. But every now and then you get pissed off. And this whole thing involving me and Jasmine Crockett and the fallout from it, particularly from the black community and from the Democratic community, has really, really raked my last nerves. People are labeling me as being disrespectful. They're hinting towards misogynism. All of a sudden, we got to bring up, well, Stephen A. He has a history of being critical of black women. I have a history of being critical of everybody.

[George Trulley]

Okay?

[Stephen A. Smith]

And also being complimentary of everybody. When you deserve the compliment, I'll give it to you. When you don't, I won't.

[George Trulley]

The same applies to me from other people. I'm a big boy. I can take it as long as it's accurate.

[Stephen A. Smith]

But when people are using things for.

[George Trulley]

Clickbait material or just because they got.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Their sensitive antennas up or just because they want to be stooges for the.

[George Trulley]

Democratic Party, it pisses me off because I think that's a problem that exists in this nation. And I think that's a problem that specifically existed when it comes to the African American community, the black community, which obviously I am a part of, and this notion that I'm selling out the Democratic Party.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Who the hell told you I was a part of your party? Who told you I vibe with you? Have you not been listening? I don't like none of yalls.

[George Trulley]

I'm talking about other side of the aisle. I think with elected officials, with Capitol Hill. I'm not talking about specific individuals. I'm talking about the apparatus, the infrastructure that's in place on Capitol Hill. I think what they've done to the American people is criminal. I think they're the reasons we're divided. I think they're the reasons why our divisions are so conspicuous and so palpable that it's made us so volatile towards one another. So I'm gonna do everything that I can, although I might speak loudly, although I might be. I might speak acerbically. Trust you me, that's all I'm gonna do. In an effort to bring out facts and to make sure that we understand where everybody's coming from, I wanna stay. For the record, I owe no apology to Representative Jasmine Crockett or any of her supporters. I said nothing disrespectful to that lady or about that lady. I've even said she is welcome to come on this show. She has been invited for weeks. The same applies to aoc. Hakeem Jeffries has been on this show. Chuck Schumer has been invited to the show. Gavin Newsome has been invited to this show. Eric Swalwell will be on this show. I us off out of Georgia. I want him on the show. I can't make politicians, elected officials come on the show if they don't want to. But you're not going to silence me. You're not going to mute me with your absentee status if you don't show up. The party still goes on. The show still goes on. I'm going to do what I do now to remind people of what I said about Jasmine Crockett. All I said, ladies and gentlemen, was that when you're cussing the president out and you're calling him a Hitler wannabe, or going in front of public platforms and calling the President of the United States a piece of shit, all I said was, is that gonna help your 750,000 plus constituents? That's all I asked. That's all I asked. And then folks act like I've lost my mind because I asked that question. I'm saying, are you not trying to win the midterms? Are you not trying to ensure that he doesn't win 2028? Aren't you concerned that the power brokers that be, since he's not only considered a rare type politician, but a cultural figure who sort of shifted the paradigm to such a degree that conservatives have gained more traction than ever before. Bypassing traditional conventional media, creating their own platforms, having billions of downloads every day, gaining traction, winning an election, winging every swing state, winning the popular vote since 20 2004, getting more young voters.

[Robert Costa]

More.

[George Trulley]

Female votes, more everything. All of these things happened in the last election. I'm pointing that out And. And highlighting how this strategy might not be good for you. And because of that, we're having a conversation nationwide about me being disrespectful. Have you seen these politicians talking to each other on Capitol Hill? Did you see Pam Bonney talking to Senator Blumenthal or Schiff? Did you see Cash Mattel talking at other people? So they got a right to talk that way towards each other, But I don't have a right as an American citizen, as a conscientious observer, as a voter, as somebody that has his own airways available to him, to simply ask a question without being labeled disrespectful or misogynistic. That's what we're doing now. That's what we're doing. We can't do that. I got to come on the airwaves and remind everybody that Jasmine Crockett is an intelligent black woman. I took it for granted that y' all knew that. I got to remind you that she's educated, that she has degrees, including a law degree, that she's licensed to practice law in Texas and Arkansas. And on the federal level, I have to sit up there and couch me asking her a question by saying all of that, really? That's what we doing. That's what we doing. Because I asked the question. This is why I said what I said. This notion that I'm supposed to be sided with the Democrats. Don't you know who I am?

[Stephen A. Smith]

I'm a centrist. I'm Stephen A.

[George Trulley]

I'm not married to.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Either side, don't like either of them.

[George Trulley]

And I believe this particular Democratic Party should be purged. I'm not talking about the individuals. I'm not talking about how, oh, Hakeem Jeffrey should go away, or Schumer and AOC or whatever should go away. I'm talking about the apparatus that exists, the leaderless rut that it is, seemingly no direction. What principled position do you stand on, et cetera? You don't have it. You don't have it. Why am I saying this? Not because I want you to lose. It's because I want you to get together, get it together, and legitimately compete with the other side and stop riding the coattails of a last election that you keep living off of, talking about. You only lost by 1.5%, when, in fact, it's not about that being the reality. It's about where Biden was in 2020 and where you regressed to by 2024. That number was more precipitous because I asked these questions.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I have to sit here and defend my character for asking a question and saying, is that gonna work for you?

[George Trulley]

To be every bit as belligerent as the president? Listen, Gavin Newsom could try that out as the governor of California. He's about to leave office. He's got a term limit out there. He's departing and trying to keep himself relevant for a potential run in 2028. That makes total sense. If you're in Congress now, you got work to do. And just going after the president and going off ain't gonna cut it. We got Jasmine Crockett. Do y' all know that she sponsored.

[Stephen A. Smith]

37 pieces of legislation that includes bills, resolutions, amendments, etc. Stuff like Free Speech act of 2025.

[George Trulley]

Swiftvolk Act, Clear ID Act, Abortion Care.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Awareness Higher Credit Act.

[George Trulley]

According to Congress.gov Jasmine Crockett has co sponsored 831 pieces of legislation, bills, resolutions, amendments. 10 have become law. Congratulations. That's what I'm talking about. Don't we need to hear more about that as opposed to saying the President's a piece of shit? Don't we need to hear about what you're doing? I didn't say you didn't do anything. I said don't we need to hear about it. Don't we need to know your record so you can swing for the fences with the best of them? That's all.

[Representative Chip Roy]

We see.

[George Trulley]

Ted Cruz instead of the Cornine and Representative Chip Roy, who's about to be on this show, talking more about the issues than her. That's not to say she's not doing. I'm saying we should know what she's doing as opposed to how she feels about the President, because who the hell don't know that?

[Stephen A. Smith]

But I'm wrong. You got to be kidding me. You think I didn't see the news about those young Republicans and some of the things that they were saying.

[Representative Chip Roy]

Which.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I will get into a little bit later. Talk about bringing up anti Semitic and racial and racists verbiage and all of this? You think I didn't see that? You think me and others in this country don't have a palpable fear of what's coming up the pike? The kind of nonsense that Trump's behavior breeds in terms of contempt and disrespect.

[George Trulley]

Towards authority, being the showman that he.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Is and what have you and how.

[George Trulley]

Detrimental that could be to our country? Think I don't know that? I've spoken about it on several occasions. Unfortunately, that's not what people are hearing. Instead, people are hearing about Me asking a question to a representative who happens to be an educated, smart, accomplished black woman. And how dare me ask a question about whether or not a strategy of her is hers is being effective. And because of that, it creates some kind of brouhaha. We got cats with podcasts smoking weed, talking shit about me. We got women sitting up there saying it was disrespectful. It was disrespectful to ask a question. Y' all criticize and ask men questions all the time. My man Charlemagne, the guard on the Breakfast Club.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Number, love for the brother because he's smart, independent, thinker, and at least when he has something to say, he reaches out to me. Mad love to my man Matt Barnes from All the Smoke podcast as well, because he does the same whether they agree with me or not. And I appreciate that this Charlemagne the God talking about me for a second. Listen to what he had to say.

[Charlamagne tha God]

As far as what he said about Jasmine Crockett. And me and Stephen A. Spoke about this behind the scenes this week. But I don't think any elected official is above critique. But you got to criticize their policy. And it seems like Stephen A. Is criticizing her style. And if you are criticizing her style and telling her she needs to change her style to be able to get things done, but also saying that, also telling her to do that to get things done with one of the most uncouth political figures ever in Donald Trump, then I got to say that, you know, you buggin, all right?

[Stephen A. Smith]

Trump talks crazy.

[Charlamagne tha God]

So you can't call out Jasmine for allegedly talking crazy. You know, his words, but not Trump. And I also believe that, you know, Tamika Mallory and Bakari Sellers, they need to have a conversation with Stephen A. They should go on Stephen A. Show and explain to him why playing nice with Trump doesn't work. And I have no problem with Jasmine Crockett and her opposition or her resistance to Trump. I have no problem with her calling out Trump and challenging the President of the United States of America. I have no problem.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I'm not bugging. I respect the hell out of Charlamagne. God. I understand where he's coming from. I respectfully disagree. I'm not bugging because I wasn't talking about Trump directly. I'm talking about the representatives and in the House and the Senate who, you know are at his mercy. But you have to deal with the fact is, by talking with them, figuring out a way to finagle your way into the equation to get things done on behalf of your constituency, is your.

[George Trulley]

Job going off about a man that everybody, including the Republicans, would like to go off about. If they didn't think it was gonna cost them their seats in the House or in the Senate, the they would do it too. Figure out a way to work around.

[Stephen A. Smith]

That nonsense is my point.

[George Trulley]

Not sitting there trying to have lunch with him and glad hand with him. That's not what I was saying. But I understand how that could have been misconstrued by somebody like a Charlemagne of God. Bakari Sellers, however, has a different agenda. But let's listen to what his sorry.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Ass has to say before I go further. Go ahead.

[Bakari Sellers]

There is a through line between the ice cubes and the Jason Whitlocks and the the Stephen A. Smiths. These individuals have been around since we have been on this freedom struggle. There have always been individuals out there which exhibit behaviors of charlatans who utilize. You know, some people are in it for the change and some people are in it for the change.

[Royce White]

Right.

[Bakari Sellers]

And I think that that's indicative. And they found they. They find the easiest path to the front of the line. And Stephen A. Smith is someone who doesn't have the depth to talk about House oversight or the appropriations process. Right. And how you're able to bring resources back to your community or what Jasmine is doing. So he rather lampoon her.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I am not fond of Bakari Sellers. I think that he is an individual that is so judgmental of other people that he is allergic to mirrors. I'm quite sure you never took money from anybody, huh? I certainly have. The only money I've ever gotten from anybody or jobs I worked. But I don't know your history, so I'm not gonna go there. What I do know is this. First of all, never mention me and that other individual who everybody knows I despise in the same breath. I'm nothing like him. Secondly, Picari, Sellers is right about my lack of depth. My issue is why are you acting like I act like I have that depth. Sports is my thing. Politics is what I observe. Not to the degree that you do, but what Bakari Sellers needs to recognize is why don't you tell what the truth is?

[George Trulley]

Why don't you speak about the level.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Of resentment that you really, really have that the American people are more willing to listen to somebody like me or the others that you mentioned rather than you who's been doing this for years out of South Carolina and then some. Nobody care what you have to say.

[George Trulley]

I'm giving you pub right now by.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Talking about you because this is the kind of individual he is. I could come at somebody like that.

[George Trulley]

Who chooses to be disrespectful. You know my number. You could have reached me a long time ago. We could have had discussions a long time ago. Only time you ever reached out to anybody is when you wanted to sell your book. So it doesn't matter to me what you've accomplished. It doesn't matter to me how intelligent you are. It doesn't have matter to me how knowledgeable you are because nobody wants to listen to you because you're in your intent and your disposition. And your default position is to attack.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Personally people you don't even know.

[George Trulley]

A charlatan. That implies I'm a fraud. How am I fraudulent?

[Royce White]

My.

[George Trulley]

My work speaks for itself. I've been doing this for years. And SiriusXM wanting to come to me. I got news for you. CNN will want me for. They want you. And you work there. Not to mention other networks. Don't hate on us because of what you ain't. Step up and be more than that by focusing on the issues. And if we don't know, teach us. So all you got to do, teach us. If you're right, we'll listen to you. And instead of me calling you out on the airways, what I do instead is sit on the air and say, hey, this makes perfect sense, man. But Kari Sellers is right, just like I've said. Van Jones is right, just like I've said. Others are right on the left and the right. You bought and paid for on one side. Don't even want to hear what the other has to say. But you talking about me. Sit your ass down. I asked a question. You got Tamika, Mallory and some other person that was sitting next to Bakari Sellers while he was talking about me, I forgot who. Who her name was Tiffany something I don't know. And talking about I got LD energy. Go look it up. Evidence.

[Stephen A. Smith]

You really don't know me.

[George Trulley]

I mean, come on now. All because you don't like that I asked a question of a representative and her strategy. If you think I'm wrong, say why. I'd stand corrected. I'd come on the end.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Admit it. But y' all don't want to do that. Because what y' all want to do instead is hate. Here's what you don't know about me. I take it with ease. I know it doesn't seem that way because of how I came out with the opening of this show. But if you know me well enough, it's regular. I'm actually tame compared to What I usually am and could be. Y' all just ain't worth it. Charlemagne. I'm not talking about you, my brother, you know that. I'm not talking about Roland Martin, my brother, you know that. I'm not talking about Matt Barnes. All the smoke, my brother, you know that. I'm not going to address those ladies with their personal insults. I'm not going to go there. I have four older sisters at 15 nieces. I have 15 nieces and nephews, 10 of which are nieces. I have two daughters. I'm not going to do what y' all are trying to bait me to do. Y' all go ahead and y' all do it. I'm gonna keep doing me. Good luck, though. Knock yourself out. I ain't got nothing but time and energy. I'll see you around. Up next, Representative from Texas. Not Jasmine Crockett, who's been on invited on this show on several occasions, who I gave no disrespect to, by the way, at all.

[George Trulley]

Not her, but a counterpart, Representative Chip.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Roy, out of the 21st district in Texas. Oh, he's coming on the show. Let's talk about the shutdown as opposed to feeling disrespected. More straight shooting with Stephen A. In a minute. I love my music. I love my music, just like I'm gonna love having my next guest on. He is currently in his fourth term representing Texas's 21st congressional district. He serves on the House Judiciary Rules and Budget Committees and is the policy chair of the House Freedom Caucus. Please welcome the Straight Shooter with Stephen A. The one and only Representative Chip Roy.

[George Trulley]

How are you, sir?

[Stephen A. Smith]

How's everything?

[Representative Chip Roy]

I'm doing great. Stephen A. Smith. How are you, sir?

[Stephen A. Smith]

Thank you, sir. Thank you for being on the show. Let's get right to it. We're on day 16 of a government shutdown. You obviously were a vocal opponent of the extended enhanced subsidies for the Affordable Care Act, a key sticking point in the shutdown. At least that's what the Dems like to say. Why did you think it was important to any subsidies then, to prevent a shutdown? Some people would ask, what would you say to that?

[Representative Chip Roy]

Yeah, well, thanks, like, first of all, let's be clear. We passed a bill that will keep the government funded and it's a clean bill. It is basically extending Biden's funding through November 20th. That is something Democrats have always supported. In fact, they voted for it 13 times in the last administration to have a straight up clean extension of government funding. So they're the ones that are actually Blocking funding. We've passed it and frankly, we only need five Democrats in the Senate to get the government funded through November 20th. But like the sticking points are, many Democrats have put forward legislation that would have funding that would go to illegal aliens, for example, for healthcare and other things. But you raise an important point about healthcare. Look, the fact of the matter is there are a bunch of subsidies that were put in place during COVID Now, for everybody out there listening, what those are, are enhanced subsidies. That is, they go over the 400% of the poverty level that were originally put in place for healthcare, and they extend those subsidies in a way that, that go to people making 500, $600,000. They would cost taxpayers $400 billion. More importantly, in my view, that's $40 billion a year going almost entirely into the hip pockets of insurance companies. Insurance companies that are minting money on the back of families who can't afford to choose the doctor of their choice or afford insurance or get the health care that they want. And that's the problem. The insurance companies in the health care industry spend three quarters of a billion dollars, Stephen, three quarters of a billion dollars on lobbying. That's six times more than the defense industry. That's what's really going on. So with all due respect to my colleagues, they might expire. But hey, and by the way, I have thrown out the possibility we could consider a sort of phase out or something, but only if we get policies that will help the average American afford health care. You know, it, you know, people, you got families, friends, $25,000 a year we currently spend on health insurance to be told we can't go to the doctor we want to go for insurance companies to tell us what, you know, you know, you know, care that we're not going to get, what medicines we can't get, what doctors we can't go to. And as a cancer survivor myself, the reason I got into public policy was to try to help people be able to get access to health care.

[George Trulley]

What definite.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Well, what explanation do you. Are we to surmise that the Democrats are giving us that are remotely plausible to make an argument against everything that you just said? Because based on everything you just said, it would seem reasonable, particularly when you're talking about, you know, a clean bill or, you know, continue a resolution, it should be forthcoming. I mean, the bottom line is they held off on it for six months. Chuck Schumer nixed that a few months ago in March or so, and otherwise there would have been a government shutdown at that particular moment in Time. This time he didn't do that. And here we are. The explanation that the Democr are giving, in your estimation, what level of sense does it make to you?

[Representative Chip Roy]

Look, I, being honest, and I have friends of mine that are Democrats that I've done bills with together, I try to work together. The stock trading bill, which I hope we'll talk about in a minute, I worked with Democrats to do that. But in this case, they're playing politics, okay? Because. And we knew this was going to happen. All right, 100%, this was almost certainly going to happen. So that's why when we did the big beautiful bill. And you can like some of it, not like some of it, that's up to you and everybody, all the listeners can judge.

[Royce White]

And.

[Representative Chip Roy]

But what we tried to put in there was money for defense and money for the border because we knew we needed it. If the Democrats were to shut the government down for political purposes heading into an election season, which is what we really think is happening. I'm just being honest with you. I think this is a political play to try to get leverage heading into and vault into the election season, giving Democrats something to be on offense on. They wanna change the conversation from the border. They wanna change the conversation from the world stage and Israel and Gaza and Middle East. They wanna change the conversation from all the stuff that we're doing to make the country better. And they wanna flip it over and say we're gonna talk about healthcare. Cause they think they can win on that issue. And I'm trying to tell my fellow Republicans we should run on that issue. We're the party of the people. We're not the party of the insurance companies. We're not the party of the big hospital conglomerates that are driving people into the inability to afford healthcare, own it. The first big bill that I introduced in 2019 was the healthcare Freedom Act. And it would empower people to have money in health savings accounts, direct primary care, health sharing ministries, be able to afford health care, drive prices down. But we gotta get the votes here. And the big lobby doesn't want it.

[Stephen A. Smith]

What do you think about the notion? I mean, one, on one hand, you could look at it and you could say, okay, it's disgusting because, you know, people are being furloughed, if not flat out fired. Hundreds of thousands, if not millions of Americans are without, you know, are not receiving a paycheck. And, and people should be ashamed of themselves or based on what you just said, if they deem it politically expedient and it's something that they could potentially win on. Why shouldn't they try it? Because you're talking about regaining power. So you're not at the mercy of just the Republicans who now control the White House, the Senate, and the House as well. They're trying to regain some power. What are we to think about that as an American citizen at this particular moment in time, considering the fact that this isn't the first shutdown? There was a shutdown in 2018. There was a shutdown in 1996. This is the latest, unfortunately. I know as an American citizen, I'm disgusted. You sound disgusted, and I appreciate that.

[George Trulley]

But how plausible is it, or implausible.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Is it that this is happening at this particular moment in time of your estimation?

[Representative Chip Roy]

Well, look, you brought up that shutdown in 2019. That was when I first took office, when I was a freshman member of Congress, and I came in and it was shut down, and that was a fight over the border wall. Okay, so, okay, there was a political issue at play here. What you have, I think, is, as I said, it's a political issue. My Democrat colleagues believe they can get the upper hand. And if they can flip it to healthcare, then they can use that to get Republicans to blink. Right. In this sort of standoff. We think. Hold on a second, guys. We've literally funded the government. We sent you a bill at the Biden levels. We didn't change them. It's the Biden funding level, and we sent it over to the Senate. And you're rejecting that. So we think they're the ones that have to answer to the American people. To your point, look, there can be reasons to have these fights. Maybe they're good, maybe they're bad. But Newt Gingrich said it well the other day when he said, well, look, normally the American people do not love shutdowns. Right? We know that. And by the way, I've been okay with some shutdown fights. When you're fighting over an issue that you believe in, I wanted border security. I think it's important to fight for that. But, okay, the American people can decide. But Democrats here are saying we're gonna do a shutdown which the American people don't like, but we're going to do it for a lot more government spending and more debt, which the American people don't like and they don't want. The American people do not want more health care going to illegal aliens. The American people do not want insurance companies to get rich. They do want to afford health care. So Democrats are hoping they can win that piece of the argument. I'm telling my Republican colleagues, nope, we own that argument. We can drive down health insurance prices, drive down health care costs and give you better access to doctors. You, if we give you the power, you the American rather than the insurance companies.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Representative ROY could you explain to my listeners? Because a lot of times Democrats come on and they say there's no truth to this notion that more dollars are going going to be or more healthcare dollars are going to be going to illegal aliens, illegal immigrants, et cetera, et cetera. They're saying that's not true. Many Republicans say that is true. What's the truth, sir?

[Representative Chip Roy]

So the truth is if you go back to when we were debating the big beautiful bill back in the summer and late spring, we had these arguments repeatedly. And the fact is that the funds are fungible. So when you have the federal dollars that are going massively into the healthcare system, and this is a huge amount of money because of the subsidies under the Affordable Care act, because of Medicaid expenditures, generally because of Medicare expenditures, massive amount of money flowing into the system. Well then what happens is a big state like California that has a very, call it lax policy with respect to illegal aliens, right? They're kind of fighting a security. And again, whatever your view on it is, that's pretty objectively true, right? It's not like Gavin Newsom and all these guys are like hiding it. Like they are much more lax and so they are more willing to have undocumented illegal aliens in California. So they are then putting them into their healthcare system. Then if you follow the money, the money that the federal government is then giving to subsidize the subsidies under Obamacare, the dollars for Medicaid, those end up getting used by these health systems because they're adding up the numbers of the illegal aliens and they use the dollars, they can use state dollars for illegal aliens and they then backfill the federal dollars into the other stuff so that quote, unquote, they're not violating the rules. Also, you have illegal aliens who have, you know, false documents. This is not news to you. It's not news to your listeners. Of course there's stolen IDs and of course there's stolen information and they get then information through fraud. There is billions of dollars of Medicaid fraud and that's a part of the problem as well.

[Stephen A. Smith]

What about the argument that some Democrats make that, you know what, there's a lot of folks, you know, benefiting off of ACA subsidies in red states, not just blue states. It's constantly talking about Democratic states, but there's a whole bunch of red states that are using Obamacare, which is a word most Republicans don't want to use, particularly when there's anything complimentary about it. But they say a lot of red states are using the aca. What do you say to that?

[Representative Chip Roy]

Well, there are a number of factors to that. Number one, we've got some of our red states have been massively influenced, like Texas by the open border problem. Right. So we have a significant amount of people here that we're having to have run through the emergency health care system under emtala where we have to take people in and give them care. Same thing in other states. Arizona is one of those. Right. A more red state. You've got obviously some in the south. But what I would argue is we've broken the system such that we've got individuals who are now reliant on these subsidies and it's creating this infinite do loop, this circle where you say, okay, because there are people that we have made reliant on the subsidies, we've broken the system. So they don't have another solution. Then you're saying to me the problem is that they're on the subsidies that were caused by the broken system. They don't have another choice. That's my argument, Steve, is like, look, if you say, well, I stabbed you and I'm addicting you to the morphine, well, you need more morphine. Well, I know because you stabbed me. Like that's the problem we have here is we've got a broken system whereby we now have people who can't. For example, I can't go get an affordable insurance plan in the open market. Right. I only can get the plans that the government has said. You follow these particular rules. To give you an example, I'm a member of Congress. The only insurance I can get as a member of Congress is Obamacare. People don't know that. They would think we get these gold plated plans or whatever we get Obamacare. Well, I had cancer in 2011. I went to MD Anderson in Houston. You probably know it. It's one of the best cancer hospitals in the world. I was fortunate to go there and I was canc. I'm now cancer free. God bless. You know, I'm thankful to God, but guess what? I can't go there now. MD Anderson is no longer on the Obamacare plan. That's a problem. We're not giving people real solutions. So yeah, there are some red state people, there are some poorer parts of our country who are now on Obamacare, but they have coverage that doesn't mean anything. One of my constituents who got stage four cancer two years ago, she passed away a year ago. She was also unable to go get to MD Anderson to get treatment because her insurance didn't allow it because she was on Obamacare. We have to fix that. I have plans that I think we can do it, but we got to stop pretending that the current system is working. It's not.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Representative ROY if I asked you this, if you don't want to answer, I totally understand it, sir. But I have to ask you because I'm just tempted by listening to you. I'm wondering what was more damaging in the eyes of a conservative, a Republican, what was more damaging to this country? Is it the Affordable Care act or is it with Biden and his open border policies during his administration?

[Royce White]

Ooh.

[Stephen A. Smith]

When you take it to.

[George Trulley]

I asked that when you take into.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Account the federal deficit, which is currently at about 37. Point.68 or 37.88. You know what is a trillion dollars right now? That's what I'm looking at right now. That's what I'm asking, man.

[Representative Chip Roy]

You're like, it's like asking like I, like I grew up a Cowboys fan, so don't shoot me, right? And oh Lord, I know.

[George Trulley]

My condolences to you.

[Stephen A. Smith]

My condolences to you.

[Representative Chip Roy]

Hold on. The first 30 years of my life from night well, from 1966 to 1996, the Cowboys were awesome, right? They won like literally went to half the NFC championships. They went to eight Super Bowls, won five of them. They're over the last 30 years. You and I are pattico on our frustration with the Cowboys and, and the, and the frankly, a lot of bloviation that comes out of that. But we can talk about that separately another day. The reason I bring that up is as a Cowboys fan who grew up as a kid in the early 80s, I despise the Redskins. I despise the Eagles and the 49ers because they knocked off my Cowboys three straight years in 81, 23. And so you're asking me to choose which one of those is worse. I can't do that. But what I will tell you is this. They go hand in hand. I think that the open borders policy is probably the one that's the worst, but only by an edge. For this reason, especially as a Texan, the amount of death and destruction that immediately occurred, the fentanyl overdoses, the moms I've had to talk to the peoples whose ranches were ransacked, the people who died, like Jocelyn Nungray in Houston or Lake and Riley in Georgia or Rachel Marin in Maryland. I've talked to all their families. The horrors of the empowerment of the cartels, but also the flooding of our country with people who, God bless them, three quarters of them just want a better life. A quarter of them might have been kind of dodgy people, but those people were flooding our emergency rooms, flooding our schools, flooding our jails, and that overwhelmed our system. Guess what? Now tie in Obamacare. Now you've got Obamacare that's providing a lot of payments and subsidies to a lot of these people. So they go hand in hand. They're both very bad. They're both very destructive. They're both racking up debt. So, look, if I have to pick, I'll pick the open borders. But they're both horrific.

[Stephen A. Smith]

As a black man who grew up poor and struggled, I will tell you that the perception is that the Affordable Care act has been very, very helpful to the poor, the desolate, and the disenfranchised in this country. To that you say what?

[Representative Chip Roy]

I say that the overall price of health care has now gotten to the point where nobody in America can truly afford it. To the extent that Obamacare or the Affordable Care act closed a gap for a sliver of the population or a subset of the population, whatever, several million people who were sometimes in the gap, unable to figure out how to get health care. Okay, but at what cost? I would argue to you, Steven, that the. That if you've watched the overall uptick in healthcare expenditures, the health insurance premiums, like I used to remember being able to afford, you know, health insurance for like 100 bucks a month, 200 bucks a month. Right now, the average family of four is paying $25,000 a year between their employer and themselves to get an insurance product where they tell them that they can't go to a certain doctor, can't get coverage, can't get care that's not coverage. So, yes, we've been sold a bill of goods. And by the way, when you have health care being provided in the emergency room in Emtala, when you have healthcare that's being mandated, okay, then some people are, quote, covered who wouldn't have been covered otherwise. But the vast majority of people are now unable to afford care. They're unable to afford the doctor they want to go to. They can't go get the services they want to get. There's a reason at the surgery center of Oklahoma, if you go down there to get a knee replacement, they give you a cash price only for $14,500. But if you go to your insurance company and go to your local hospital, that will get billed out at $60,000 because the middlemen and the insurance companies are getting rich. A whole bunch of big hospital corporations are getting rich. The government is spending a lot more money. And for that, a handful of people might be covered, but for worse care. And now the entire level has been brought down to do worse care for more expense.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I imagine that talking to contemporaries and colleagues, Senator Cruz, Senator Cornyn in Texas, along with your other contemporaries on the Republican side, y' all are simpatico to some degree on most of these issues. I want to know what it's like for you to talk to Democrats in terms of expressing the kind of things that you've expressed to me, particularly somebody like a Jasmine Crockett who was a Democrat out of Texas. Have you ever had those discussions with the other side? And if so, what are the kind of reactions that you get from them when you explain stuff like this? Because you articulate yourself very well, you make your feelings very, very clear, it's not hard to comprehend and understand where you're coming from. You're certainly not shy about it. You definitely, I imagine you've let them know.

[George Trulley]

I'd like to know what their reaction.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Has been when you break this stuff down to them.

[Representative Chip Roy]

Well, look, we have fundamental disagreements about the role of government and what it should play in the lives of the American people. I think we're much better off when we have to go out and figure out how to go out and take care of our and engage and buy things in the open market, drive prices down, et cetera. My Democratic colleagues will say, well, no, that's not right. The government just needs to come in and provide it. I'm like, okay, well, now here's the cost. It goes up, et cetera. Your choices go down. So we have just a fundamental different view of how it should work now. Do I have friends of mine who get that it's broken? Yes. Will they go out publicly and talk about that right now? Not really. Right. Because they believe Obamacare is a message that they've been able to win over the last decade. I actually think that it's starting. The polling numbers are showing that that's going down, that people are getting more and more frustrated with healthcare. I think you're seeing some of these market driven approaches. Like, you know, I don't agree with Mark Cuban on everything, but, you know, his RX you know, prescription drug effort, you know, some of the things that are going on to provide more competition, those things are good. And people are saying, oh, wait a minute, you mean there isn't? Or like the surgery center of Oklahoma and other models, direct primary care. So I go talk to my Democrat colleagues about it. But we just have fundamental differently worldviews. But there are things where I can come to terms and agree with my Democrat colleagues. I've got a bill right now, as you know, with Seth Magaziner, to ban congressional members of Congress or members of Congress from trading stocks. That is a bipartisan effort. And these are things where I think we can get to general agreement, hey, we should clean up this town, restore trust in Congress. That's what we've called the bill. I've had that bill for four terms now, and now I think it's time to do it. We've got, I think 68 Democrat co sponsors and 20 or so Republican co sponsors. We need more Republicans to join the effort. But there are things where we can agree with Democrats. If you remember Dean Phillips, he actually ran for president briefly. Right. Member of Congress from Minnesota. Dean and I introduced a bill during the COVID shutdown to fix the PPP program, if you remember that thing, to make it where restaurants could stay open because there were a lot of mom and pop shops and people, poorer communities in the district that I represented. Mine are more rural. But you know, you said you grew up in a poor part of probably city. Well, you've got, you know, restaurants that were going under and you know, we needed to save them. We had to save restaurants, we had to save music venues, we had to go save. So we worked on that. And that wasn't a government like program per se. It was a way to make that program work better. So I worked for the Democrat. We got that bill passed. I actually had a bill signing, went to the Oval Office with the president. So that's the kind of thing you can do when you work together. Healthcare is probably the toughest nut because it's such a huge part of our economy and government spending. I'm open to talk to any Democrat about it. But my starting solution is doctors and patients, not insurance companies or government bureaucrats. I think it should start there. There ought to be physician owned hospitals. We ought to empower doctors and patients. We ought to give the money to the patient. If it's a government program like Medicaid, great. Put it in an account and let them use it to go get a doctor of their choice. If it's your insurance company, let them do it. If it's you, let you put it in there tax free, go out into the market and shop and that will drive prices down.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Last question before I let you get on out of here. Thank you so much for your time, Representative Roy out of Texas. Really, really appreciate it, sir. Number one, how soon do you anticipate it'll be before this shutdown ends in number two, and more importantly, or just as important, should say more important, but just as important, if federal workers out there working and not getting paid, how do you feel? How should the American people feel about our politicians on Capitol Hill who can't get together to get this done, getting paid while federal officials, while federal employees are not?

[Representative Chip Roy]

The shutdown will end when we get five Democrats to join us in the Senate. We've got, the House has done it. We've had three Democrats who have come across the line to work with us. We need five more Democrats to join us and then we'll be able to fund government and we'll be to able to get back and we go negotiate the things we still need to negotiate. As it relates to pay, I agree with you. I sent a letter on that day that the shutdown started saying I will not take pay until the shutdown is over. I'm not going to, I'm going to, you know, I'm not going to take pay while the people that I represent, whether they're TSA or whether an FBI agent or whether they're a border patrol officer, I'm not going to take pay if they can't get paid. So I don't know. I don't think, not all my colleagues have done that. I did it because I think it's the right thing to do. All federal workers for the most part, will get back pay unless they're furloughed by the administration and then that will be debatable. But like 99% plus all the federal workers will all get paid on the back end. But I'm not going to take a check in the meantime. And look, I just tell you this, the thing that we've got to do is we've got to come together and do the work to secure this country, right? And you can't do that. You can't have security at your border, you can't have security on our streets if you have this, you know, situation where the government's not funded when we need to do these things.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I would also add this as a last question. Believe it or not, sorry I lied. I had one More question I forgot to ask. You know, I trust when, when it's coming out of your mouth because of who you've been, how outspoken you've been and how consistent you've been. I trust what you're saying. I think that reservations or trepidation on the part of a lot of American voters out there, as it pertains to the right, certainly there's this trepidation on for the left as well. But as it pertains to the right, look at the young Republicans, look at the news that's out right now and look at what's in. What's in some people's eyes are being bred out there. You got a bunch of young Republicans engaging in rhetoric that involves antisemitism, racist and stuff like that. The stuff that's been all over the news over the last 24 hours or so. What are your thoughts about stuff like that? Because it seems like a folk, a bunch of folks on a come up that are younger don't seem to be anything like. Representative Roy, your thoughts?

[Representative Chip Roy]

Well, here's what I would say and I can't speak to, you know, what those individuals said or didn't say. Obviously, you know, you know, we don't like any of the rhetoric that I've been seeing flowing around on Twitter X you know, what was alleged, but I have no knowledge of what of those individuals. Right. Okay. But here's what I know. I do know that there is a spirit in a very good way. And I say this as a Christian who believes that there is a movement of faith among the vast majority of the young folks that I know that are all doing this from the right place in my view. I think Charlie Kirk represented that. Whatever you think about Charlie, right. I was at an event yesterday. Charlie was a friend of mine, full disclosure. And you know, when he was talking about, look, without God, then freedom devolves into chaos. Okay? And I believe that. I believe we need God at the center of our lives and that is the solution to any of this stuff. Look, you know Nick Fuentes, right? Like he popped off on something and I whacked him on Twitter saying he was, I think I said he was an asshat. I can't remember. But whatever it was like, I don't. There's no place for that kind of stuff from my standpoint. Not even from my standpoint, there's no place for that. But what I think is more important right now is the extent to which I see people who want to pick up and carry the cross, who want to carry Forward a message of hope. I represent Kerrville, the people who had all that devastating flooding. Those people came together all walks of life, people from all over the country, to serve and to help people from all political backgrounds, conservative people out there. There wasn't hate. There wasn't people throwing stuff around. People came together in love to help each other. That is almost everyone I know. And so whatever, a handful of people are popping off here and there, whether they're left or right, Stephen, I ignore that crap. Like, I'm focused on the gospel. I'm focused on freedom. I'm focused on my family. I'm focused on becoming the Attorney General of Texas so I can go defend the laws. I'm. I believe in this country. I believe in freedom. I believe in the Constitution. I believe in God. That's my guiding principles, and that's how I do things.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I don't mind you at all. The thought of you being an attorney general. It sounds good. I mean, I, I gotta admit that I don't. I don't mind that possibility.

[George Trulley]

It's, it's, it, it, it doesn't sound bad at all.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Representative Chip Roy out of the 21st congressional district in Texas. Thank you so much for joining the show. I appreciate it. Please know that you're welcome back anytime. My man. Thank you so much.

[Representative Chip Roy]

God bless.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Take care. SiriusXM POTUS radio straight Shooter with Stephen A. You heard what he had to say. You'll hear my comments and more when we're back in a minute. Don't go away.

[George Trulley]

Just a few more minutes here for you.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Finishing off our number one before I have Mr. Royce White and of course, Mr. Robert Costa on for hour number two. Look, I appreciate Representative Chip. Chip Roy for coming on the show, explaining things from his side of the aisle. That angle, I get all of that part. But none of us are blind, deaf, or dumb here. From the day Trump was sworn in January 20, 2017, he signed an executive order to waive deferred grant exemptions from, or delay implementing parts of the Affordable Care Act. Nobody's blind to that. Nobody's blind to the fact that millions of people will pay higher premiums, deductibles, and other health costs starting in just a few months, under a rule the Trump administration has finalized for the Affordable Care Act. Care act marketplaces.

[George Trulley]

We're not blind. We understand it. We get it. My point is, how do you resolve it? How do you work around it? How do you maneuver your way into this without making sure the American people are going to suffer more? Could you find A way hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people are going to be furloughed or furloughed, unemployed. You got federal workers working right now without a check. Thanksgiving is a month away. Christmas two months away. I know that the last shutdown was 35 days under Trump. There was also a 21 day shutdown under Clinton in 1996. And then the Democrats want to come.

[Stephen A. Smith]

And they say, but Clinton piecemeal did. I mean, he didn't make it feel quite as painful for all of us.

[George Trulley]

I got it. I got it. But I was 1996, that's 29 years ago. That was when the Dallas Cowboys were actually winning football games. Times have changed, so somebody's got to say something. And when I'm asking a question, I'm asking a question. I'm not insulting, I'm not denigrating. I'm not being misogynistic.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I'm not doing what the people who accuse me of doing such things are actually doing. But here's what you need to know about me. The worst thing they could have done, and I say this facetiously because I don't mean it, but the worst thing they could have done was given me my own political show. So I got at least two hours a week over the SiriusXM airwaves to respond and potentially retaliate to assholes who.

[George Trulley]

Want to come at me.

[Stephen A. Smith]

That's called Christmas in my world, ladies and gentlemen, gifts just opening at my discretion. You came to the right place. Nobody's backing up. Y' all can lie y' all asses off until the cows come home. I disrespected no one. I insulted no one. I asked a question which was my right. Our number two. Up next, Straight Shooter in the House.

[George Trulley]

Welcome back to Straight Shooter with George Trulley.

[Stephen A. Smith]

The one only, Stephen A. Smith coming.

[George Trulley]

At you over the Edwards of Sirius XM, POTUS radio channel 124.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Number to call up, as always, is 866-967-6887. That's 8669-676887-86696 POTUS. Welcome back to Straight Shooter with George Truly. I had to get right to my next guest because I'm falling for the brother.

[George Trulley]

I. I'm not a Republican. I keep trying to tell y' all that I'm a centrist. This man is convinced that just give it a few months, I'm gonna change my mind. Um, but he has a right to say that he's a special guest. Selected as the 16th overall pick by.

[Stephen A. Smith]

The Houston Rockets back in the 2020.

[George Trulley]

2012, rather NBA Draft.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Today, he's in a different arena as.

[George Trulley]

A GOP candidate for the United States Senate from the great state of Minnesota.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Please welcome back to Straight Shooter with Stephen A. The one and only Royce White is here. What's going on? Big time. How are you, man? How have you been?

[Royce White]

I'm great. I'm alive, so I'm blessed and I'm happy to be on the show. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Please, it's my pleasure.

[George Trulley]

Let's hype.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Let's get into a hypothetical to start off this interview. So let's say, for example, you were a member of the US Senate right now and this shutdown was going on because you're running for the open Senate seat vacated by Democratic Senator Tina Smith. If you'd been in the Senate right now during this shutdown, what actions would you be taking?

[Royce White]

Well, I'd be telling the United States Senate that the American people need to be their first priority and that some, in some instances, if the government needs to shut down because certain power brokers in the United States Senate or anywhere else in the government aren't keeping the American people's interest first and foremost, then maybe that's what needs to happen. And you have to allow that to happen. It's the same thing, I would say, in the general sense, when people talk about the government and government shutdown, they say, well, look at all the people who work for the government. Well, you know, if our greatest growth in new jobs come from the government, then all the black people who said the system was guilty after George Floyd died are invested in, deeply invested in growing the same system, you know, infinitely, that they say is corrupt. And I do think, and I think the MAGA movement agrees that there's deep, deep corruption in the American government on both sides of the aisle. I know, certainly I would say that. But, you know, the government and we, we want to shrink the government as best as we can. We want to deconstruct the administrative state. We think the bureaucracy is ripe with greed and power and special interests and lobbies. So sometimes if the will of the people is not shining through the people they voted to represent them, then the government needs to shut down.

[Stephen A. Smith]

What are your thoughts about the Republicans and how they've handled this whole shutdown issue compared to what the Democrats position is, you know, because you're not shy about calling out either side, even though obviously you identify as a Republican as, as a member of the MAGA movement. I want to know what Your thoughts are about one side versus the other in terms of how this whole shutdown issue has been handled.

[Royce White]

I think, for the most part, the MAGA movement that I represent would be much more aggressive in the Senate, in the House, supporting the President Trump's agenda with some very common sense and basic things, and we can talk about some of those here in a moment. But for the most part, I think the Democrats have really shown their hands, shown the inner turmoil they have in their party and tripped all over themselves with this shutdown. I mean, the. The Republicans, in a sense, kind of left a football on the field that already existed, an agreement that's a budget that was already agreed upon and many things in it that were already agreed upon. And the Democrats said, no, we're not willing to do that. And they showed the American people, in this instance, they showed the American people that even if the policy is. Is what I would call lukewarm for America first, they're not even willing to play ball with that because they're having so much turmoil inside.

[Stephen A. Smith]

When you say that turmoil inside, describe what you believe the turmoil inside the Democratic Party is.

[Royce White]

Well, you know, I think the progressive left is. Is very loud. They're very aggressive, they're very ambitious, and they have a lot of young, rising talent who thinks that they can leverage that talent against what is the. The old guard and establishment of their party. Same way as me in the. In the MAGA movement here in Minnesota or, you know, around the country, where we're going through a political shift, as often happens, you know, generations, you know, kind of have that clash in general, but. But it's happening in the Democrat Party right now. And I think AOC is. Is holding Schumer's feet to the fire a little bit and testing how much political capital she really has, along with some others that are more aligned with her for the future of the Democrat Party versus a Chuck Schumer.

[Stephen A. Smith]

And I'm wondering whether or not, you.

[George Trulley]

Know, you have a lot of people.

[Stephen A. Smith]

And I was anxious to ask you this, talking to some people that I've spoken to, because I certainly don't know as much as y' all that are entrenched in it, as I, as I unapologetically state repeatedly, because I don't want anybody thinking I'm thinking that I'm aficionado. But I do hear when it comes to the progressive left, you got a guy like Donald Trump, the president, he's fearful of the progressives gaining some traction because he thinks it's more of a threat than he's willing to publicly admit, which is why he has stuck his nose into the equation involving the New York mayoral race with Zoran Mamdani, because he's fearful that this country. There's a lot more progressives in this country than people realize.

[George Trulley]

Are you one of the people that think like that as well?

[Royce White]

Absolutely, Absolutely. On my show on Saturday mornings on Real America Voice, on the podcast, you know, I have on YouTube and rumble and whatnot, I've been cautioning towards the future and just how dangerous the progressives are in the Democrat. I think there are. For example, there was a recent stat that just said one out of every three women 18 to 28 identify as LGBTQ. I mean, that tells you that the demographics for the progressive thought process, you know, sort of the politic of the progressive wing in American culture is. Is growing. And. And they're radical, and they are radical. I mean, when you. Here in Minnesota, for example, a couple years back, there was a. A drag queen stripper show in. In St. Cloud, Minnesota, and there were women, probably liberal Democrat women, bringing their toddlers, you know, three to five, six years old to that show, and. And their kids were given dollar bills to stick in the. In the lingerie of these drag queens. So, I mean, it's a radical movement.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Talking to Royce Wright right here with Stephen A. Straight shooter with Stephen A. I gotta ask you this. I mean, again, you identify yourself with the MAGA movement, but you make sure to emphasize your MAGA movement, meaning that it's different from what people may typically think about the MAGA movement. I ask you that in fairness, because when we see young Republicans out there over the last 24 hours making news about tweets and stuff like that, we're hearing stuff like everyone that votes no is going to the gas chamber. We're hearing, you know, great, I love Hitler. They're bringing stuff like that up. I'd go to the zoo if I wanted to watch monkeys play basketball, that kind of stuff like that. You're former NBA player. You got these young Republicans talking about black people, according to the reports that have been leaked. And, of course, Vice President Vance, you know, he came out with a statement. Essentially, it's not in front of me right at this second, but he's basically saying he dismissed young people. Young people say stupid, foolish things, pay no attention to them. But it was a very aloof response in the eyes of a lot of people. I want to know what you feel about it first. And secondly, I want to know how you distinguish what you associate with as A MAGA movement compared to what some would think the MAGA movement is.

[Royce White]

Well, first, I got to go back in history a little bit, and I know we don't have much time, but go ahead. I want to start by saying that the Republican Party, that the black community, for example, or your average minority community, for example, references when thinking about the Republican Party lands right around Reagan's era. You know, the war on drugs is when the black community really started to feel like the, the Republican Party, the modern day Republican Party, had a racial animus. And you could agree with that. There are a lot of policies that happened during the Reagan administration that I'm not in agreement. In agreement with more maybe than some of the other contemporary Republicans. But people got to understand the neoconservative power base of the Republican Party, the Republican Party establishment, the George Bush junta, I call it the Bush junta. That neoconservative base continued to have power in D.C. and play the controlled opposition of the unit party up until President Trump came down the escalator in 2016. His initial enemies in D.C. were not the Clintons, it was the Bushes and the rest of the neoconservative Republican establishment. And he fought them into submission, he beat them into submission, and now they kind of have to eat crow and, and tip their hat to them while they try and wait him out. They're still sitting there in the weeds. And, and I only say that because people have to understand this. The, the early neo conservative movement who was led by political thought leaders like Irving Crystal, who was Bill Kristol's father. He was a Trotskyite. Right. And, and they were, they were disaffected Trotskyites. Many of them came from Russia, you know, after, you know, during the Cold War. And, and so there were two forms of communism that formed that, that kind of came together there in D.C. they had their differences, but ultimately they had the same political philosophy. That's partly why much of our foreign policy is so anti Russian today, because both sides of the aisle agree on their. On their. Again. When Stalin came to power, you know, he kicked Trotsky out of Russia. Trotsky went to Mexico. Trotsky was supposed to be the next in line. But how communists work, they tend to knife each other in the back when it comes to power grabs. So my point, saying all of that is the first thing people have to realize is that President Trump doesn't represent the, the Republican Party that they think of when they think of corruption over the last 30 years. Now, what the Republican Party has turned into is. Is something that's still being formed. And you got a lot of young people in this country that are angry even with the MAGA movement. And there's plenty of criticism to have of the MAGA movement. I certainly like, like, I want to.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Hear what criticism you have.

[Royce White]

I don't like the, I don't like the way the Epstein files have been handled, that's for sure. I don't like that. Anybody who has any criticism whatsoever of Israel or the way the Jewish identity is, is used in this country is considered anti Semitic. That's not fair. That's not reasonable. And there are a lot of other things, like, for example, Larry Ellison in this digital ID deal. So, but, but, you know, there are a ton of things that the younger MAGA movement isn't going to be so kind on. However, our support of President Trump is the acknowledgment that in this moment, in this nation's darkest hour, he was willing to stand up against the forces that many of us all agree have brought this country to our knees and devalued our citizenship and made our lives a standard that, that we don't really agree with. And, and that is the ultra elite billionaire class, you know, the, the kind of technocrat, you know, oligarchy that, that wants to create a sort of feudal empire. And that's why your young, you know, millennials and even Gen Z and whatnot are, are, you know, in a gig economy. They don't own anything. They're not going to own anything. They're better dressed, they're better educated, they have more information at any time in history, but they don't own anything. They're not going to own anything. There's no 401k plan for them. The pensions are, are all but bankrupt. So, you know, I think the MAGA movement, just like the progressive left, is loud. It has a huge sign in front of it, and it's. It, it, it's the thing you encounter first. But, but it's not the whole story. The whole story is much deeper. And then I don't agree with the wing of the MAGA movement that goes to the racial animus. I think the racial stuff is, is wwe, in my opinion. It's a distraction.

[Stephen A. Smith]

So describe the MAGA movement that Royce White is proud to be a part of.

[Royce White]

Well, I mean, like I said to you last time we talked, the prevailing political philosophy in this country since the 1960s is called the Post World War II Democrat Liberal Order. And what it claimed to do, or what it would claim to want to do is take freedom and democracy around the world, buy peace through strength, and make all these nations and their people self determining. We didn't do that. That was a lie. And that was on both sides of the aisle. That cooperation was on both sides of the aisle and with many of our foreign allies, you know, allies. But. But this is. This is how it really went down. There's a thing in. In politics called the vassal empire. And so, historically, if you have a vassal empire, a small country pays tribute to a big country for protection, right? I'm a little tribe. I'm a little town, I'm a little kingdom. You have a bigger kingdom, I pay you tribute. If I ever have trouble with my neighbors, or let's say a bigger kingdom, you'll send aid, you'll send troops. We live in a reverse vassal empire in America. We pay to protect everybody else. Like, ask yourself, the most dangerous nightclub or bar in your city. Would you ever pay to go be a bodyguard at their establishment?

[Stephen A. Smith]

No.

[Royce White]

No. Unless you were moving drugs out of the back door and you wanted the access, then you would pay to be at that front door. And. And that's what we've done. Essentially, we have a reverse vassal empire. And the reason why we do. The reason why we pay to protect everybody is it's used as a justification to steal our tax money. Three to four, six trillion dollars a year on the table, not under the table. We got all the black bag operations going on, too. That doesn't get counted. But at least $6 trillion a year in government funding go to a military industrial complex that says we need to be everywhere in the world to police everybody else's problems. And people don't blink. Right. Because the boomer generation was bought into this idea that we are supposed to be the world's police. I'm a part of the MAGA movement that doesn't believe that. Who thinks when we say America first, our money would be much better spent cleaning up the city of Chicago, Detroit, Philadelphia, New York City, Minneapolis, than sending it over to Kiev and Ukraine.

[Stephen A. Smith]

So how. What do you think the chances of that being pulled off? I mean, because the reality is, is.

[George Trulley]

That you got Royce.

[Stephen A. Smith]

In order to pull these things off, there has to be some kind of meshing of minds to some degree, somebody willing to see you and go like this. Like, for me, I'm sitting here seeing you, and even though I'm not a Republican, I'm like, it makes a lot of damn sense. It makes a lot of damn sense. And that would be better for us as a nation. I mean, if I, if I'm in a position of power and I'm talking to you, I can't summarily dismiss what you're saying, but that's because I'm open minded and I'm willing to listen. There's a lot of people on Capitol Hills on the opposite side of the aisle from one another. They're not willing to listen. They're married. They're married concretely to what they want to do and how they want to do it.

[George Trulley]

So how do we ever get to.

[Stephen A. Smith]

A point where everybody understands that compromise is the order of the day and nobody gets everything that they want, but we still got to do what's in the best interest of the country?

[George Trulley]

Do we ever get there? Do you want to get there?

[Royce White]

Well, of course we want to get there. And I think President Trump was the first real, real crack in the dam in terms of fighting back against that establishment. And he had to do it from the presidential position. It would have been very hard for him to do it in the Senate or the Congress because in my opinion, both bodies are captured by special interests and lobbies. We need more insiders. I'm under no false illusions that I can walk into the United States senate on day one in 2026 and change people's minds who are bought and sold. I mean, that's just not going to happen. Hopefully. What I can do is use the United States Senate and represent the people of Minnesota and the MAGA movement, the MAGA base, to articulate a message where hopefully other voters of their respective senators can, can see where their senators lie on the issues that matter to them. And that's why we need outsiders. And I would, I would welcome seeing you getting politics full tilt and a bunch of other people as well. We need more outsiders, they say. And this is why I don't like what Bakari Sellers tried to say about.

[Stephen A. Smith]

About me, about you.

[Royce White]

But the principle of it is that there's, that there's this about you. I saw the clip. But, but in, in general, there's this idea that we need this academic elite that has a certain bona fides or gravitas in, in the esoteric geopolitical, domestic political history. One, when you really talk about that history, they don't want to talk to you. That's why they never invite me on those shows, because they know I know the history and I know the issues. But for them to say that we don't need outsiders is a concession that the D.C. political elite, that we've had in this country since the Reagan era is just fine. So, I mean, they, they talk out of both sides of their, out of this, both sides of their mouth in that regard. I love seeing the outsiders. And we can change it. It's going to take a few cycles. It's going to take a little while to, to root out the corruption. But, but we can do it. We can do it. The question is, do the people really want that? See, here's the thing. STEPHEN A. Yeah. STEPHEN A. I tell you this, I'm running, but I become more contemptuous of the people, and even us black people in particular, because I come from the neighborhood. So, you know, you can't tell me it's not dangerous to live on the north side of Minneapolis. You can't tell me it's not dangerous on the south side of Chicago. I've been there. I grew up there. So, you know, it's like, for black people specifically, it's like the Democrats have been in charge of our cities and our education for the last 60 years. You can't argue that. When are we going to be, as result, orientated when it comes to politics and our communities as we are when it comes to sports? If, if our bet, if our favorite athlete, if they go on a drought for one third of a season, we're, we're choosing up, we're picking the next guy, right? I mean, we're very harsh when it comes to our sports or our music and the things that have been great about black culture when it comes to politics. We let the people who we support fail us time and time again. But it's a problem for the whole country because the Republican voter base sold out to the neocon Republican establishment too. For, for superficial reasons.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I completely agree with you. And what I appreciate it, I appreciate about you and what people don't realize. Listen, you're on the right side of the aisle. You've criticized me before.

[George Trulley]

I didn't have a problem with it because you criticized what I said.

[Stephen A. Smith]

You criticized my position, not me. You see what I'm saying?

[George Trulley]

So you got a guy like Bakari Sellers and you're trying to act like, oh, okay, this is who this person.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Is because you may not agree with a position that I took. This, to me, is the kind of stuff that, that, that I'm disgusted by because I think that's paralyzed the black community. I tell people all the time, if.

[George Trulley]

You, if you're, if you are black.

[Stephen A. Smith]

In America, all right, if you're not a Democrat, you're considered to sell out to your community. Most people feel compelled to side with the Democratic Party, so guess what? They get to take your vote for granted.

[George Trulley]

As a result, the Republicans know they ain't getting your vote, so they get to dismiss you. And then we're the ones without any representation. What did Donald Trump pull off? Donald Trump sat in front of people, and he said, what do you got to lose? What do you got to lose? And to some people, they said, yo, that made sense, which is why he gained traction that no Republican had gained since 2004, if not before that. I'm looking at that. I'm like this. I'm no Einstein. I'm no aficionado, but I know that, and it makes sense. And people resent you pointing that out. I'm like, how are we supposed to get better as a community if we can't admit that?

[Stephen A. Smith]

Royce?

[Royce White]

Well, at some point, and I'll say this, and with respect to my criticism of you, I'm 34 years old. I've come a long way in the last five to ten years myself. And, you know, there's a natural animosity between athletes and the people who cover sports, because all of us athletes look at people who cover. And I know you played sport. You were an athlete yourself, but I'm just saying the general sense is like, I'm out here playing. You just get to talk about it. So, you know, there's that, there's that tension there. And, and I did think that Kyrie Irving, in retrospect, was right. I, I, I, and I, and I was, and at the time when I, when I criticized you, I was like, man, I think, I think I thought you, and I thought the rest of the, the mainstream sports media was being harsh on Kyrie Irving. And, and he, he ended up being right about the vaccine. I'm not saying he's right about everything he said ever, but about the vaccine, he was certainly, certainly right. And, and so, but, but anyway, the, the, the thing that I think I used to think as an athlete is like, man, Stephen A. Goes hard. He's animated, he gets excited, and he goes hard on, on us. And even I came from that place where it's like, well, why you want to talk about black people like that? Now at 34 years old, I'm thinking to myself, we need more Stephen A. Smiths. We need more black men that are willing to be honest about what's going on with young black men. But black people in general, out of, out of a goodness, out of a good spirit. It used to be like, Like Malcolm said. And this is the best example I can give because there's all this controversy about President Trump and he's sending ICE in and the National Guard and we would much rather the National Guard be in Chicago than we send them off to Iraq for some war we don't end up winning or can't afford. But it, we, the black community is so caught up in the race narrative. And I'm not saying there's not racism and I'm not saying there aren't racist white people in the Republican Party and I'm not saying there aren't racist white people in the Democrat Party. What I'm saying is people like Malcolm X used to ask what's going on in Harlem? Why is Harlem a place that black people don't want to live? We black people have to be willing to fix Harlem first before we talk about what white people aren't doing for Harlem. And, and the greatest example, you know this. You're, you're very well off. I had a very brief stint of financial success. But, but when black people get money in this country, they move away from other black people. Why is that? If there was nothing wrong in the black community, I mean gravely wrong in the black community, when our, when our, when black people get rich, they would move to the black community. They don't. So I mean even that alone, that just example tells us that people are so caught up in race and the race narrative that we forget there's rightful criticism. We have to and be harsh with ourselves to help black people move, move up in this country and move forward beyond the chaos and self destruction.

[Stephen A. Smith]

We could talk for hours, my brother. And, and I really appreciate what you just broke down because I 1000% agree with you. We're going to talk another time. I'm gonna end this here for now. But I want you to know you're gonn get it back on because I know you got an election campaign. You are you going for this senate seat and I definitely want to have you back on to talk about some of those issues.

[Royce White]

They just didn't, they just did an internal poll and my, my probable opponent, Peggy Flanagan, she's our lieutenant governor, they just did an internal poll that said that the, the generic Republican candidate here in Minnesota is only a few points behind in that race. So Minnesota becoming a swing state in, in as a radical, I guess, I guess a lot of people are starting to see the, the, the, you know, the logic behind what we're saying. So I appreciate you having me on, man. I really do.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Listen, we always have a discussion. I don't know if I'm always agree with everything you say. I just know it's pretty hard to disagree with most of the things I've already heard you say on my show. Now two times that you've been on here. So you always got a home here to discuss anytime you want to.

[George Trulley]

Good luck, my brother.

[Stephen A. Smith]

We'll keep in touch and I'll definitely have you back on in the future.

[George Trulley]

All right.

[Stephen A. Smith]

You take it easy.

[Royce White]

Thank you, brother. Godspeed.

[Stephen A. Smith]

All right. One and only Royce White right here with Stephen A. Straight Shooter with Stephen A.

[George Trulley]

Coming up next.

[Stephen A. Smith]

He is a national correspondent for CBS News Sunday Morning and chief Washington analyst for CBS News. The one and only Mr. Robert Costa. He's up next with yours truly, Stephen A. Straight Shooter with Stephen A. Back with more in a minute.

[George Trulley]

Aha.

[Representative Chip Roy]

Welcome back.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Straight Shooter with yours truly, Stephen A. Smith right here with you until the bottom of the hour. Remember, we've got a town hall special. News Nation with Chris Cuomo, yours truly and Bill O'Reilly coming on at 8pm It'll air on News Nation television. It will also air right here on potus radio, channel 120 fell following straight shooter with Stephen A. Smith, channel 124 following Stephen A. Smith. Straight Shooter With Stephen A. It is my honor and privilege to have my next guest on the show. He's national correspondent for CBS News Sunday Morning and the chief Washington analyst for CBS News. The one and only Robin Costa is with me. Pleasure to meet you, my man.

[George Trulley]

How's everything going?

[Robert Costa]

Pleasure to see you. Thank you so much for having me.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Why is this shutdown still going on right now?

[Robert Costa]

Because both parties are winning by having the standoff. The Democrats feel like they need a fight on health care. The Republicans say we don't need to give in.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Is the Affordable Care act the only sticking point?

[Robert Costa]

The other sticking point is Medicaid cuts. You remem remember the so called big beautiful bill back in the summer? Democrats don't like how some of those Medicaid cuts were implemented as part of that bill. They want to see them rolled back.

[Stephen A. Smith]

What are the political repercussions for both parties?

[Robert Costa]

Government's dysfunctional and you're having paychecks being missed by a lot of people across the government. So far. When I'm talking to people privately up at the Capitol, they say they can endure the political pain. But eventually as this drags on, a lot of people back home start saying, why isn't this government open?

[Stephen A. Smith]

I wrote down this question because I Wanted to make sure I acted. I asked it right. Arizona Attorney General Chris Mays threatened and House Speaker Mike Johnson with legal action if he didn't formally swear in Democratic Rep. Elect Adelita Grijalvar. I want to know, I want you to explain what's the importance of this issue and where exactly does it stand now to the listeners out there?

[Robert Costa]

Well, she has won this special election in Arizona, but the implication here is that once she is seated, the congresswoman from Arizona, now the congresswoman elect, would be a vote to help release the Epstein files. You have a lot of Republicans, not a ton, but some and many Democrats saying they want to force the Justice Department through congressional action to release the Epstein files. That can't happen till she is seated. So they're pushing for her to be seated as soon as possible. And it's clear Speaker Johnson not rushing for that to happen.

[Stephen A. Smith]

What is the issue with the Epstein files from the Democratic side?

[George Trulley]

Last time I checked, the Epstein Epstein.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Files were relevant when Biden was in office and the Dems could have opened it then, but that didn't happen.

[George Trulley]

Why all of a sudden then the Democrats pushing for it now?

[Robert Costa]

You know, you think about this idea of secret government. I wrote a book with Bob Woodward a few years ago. He always talks about secret government. It fascinates people in both parties. And there's a lot of belief that there's more information out there, not just on any allegations about people in the Trump administration and their relationship with Jeffrey Epstein, but also Democrats. So you have people back home in so many states craving for more information. That's the age we live in. People don't want to just take the convention of wisdom. They want more information. And that's why this movement to get the files not going away.

[Stephen A. Smith]

What is the explanation the Democratic Party has provided for them not insisting on opening the Epstein files when Biden was in office? Because I'm thinking the reason why I'm not thinking there's anything with Trump, because they wanted Trump to fail to regain.

[George Trulley]

The presidency so badly that if there was something in those files about him.

[Stephen A. Smith]

One would believe it would have been.

[George Trulley]

Opened by the Democratic Party back then. That's my belief.

[Robert Costa]

Everything, everything's timing in context. When President Biden was in office, the Democrats were watching everything from afar along with the Republicans when it came to Ghislaine Maxwell. And now this is all kind of reared its head again with President Trump back in office. It's everything's context. When President Biden was in office, people were focused on other things. And President Trump had his own challenges at the time.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Wow. And the Republicans in the maga right. Have lost it. I mean, I'm saying I haven't seen them this way. I couldn't believe even Marjorie Taylor Greene spoke out against the Trump administration on this matter.

[Robert Costa]

It's notable they're only going so far. They're clamoring for more information. But it's such a tell that so many Republicans are not going to war with President Trump on this. They want more information. They're frustrated, but they're not saying we're going to just maybe because they're scared.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Maybe because they scared because if he runs the party, he runs the party. I mean, he does he run it to such a degree that is it at a point where they're fearful for their careers if they disagree with him? I mean, that's what people say. But is that the truth?

[Robert Costa]

When I started covering the Republican Party 17 years ago, there used to be what. What we call a litmus test. Ideology mattered. How conservative were you on the spectrum? Now, the only test that matters in this moment in Washington, loyalty.

[Stephen A. Smith]

But how did it get there? Was it Stephen Miller? I mean, who was was the voters?

[Robert Costa]

You can't win a primary in this Republican Party in almost any state unless you have the imprimatur of President Donald Trump. They recognize his power through their own voters, so they're responding not to pressure from the top. It's not like President Trump's watching all of these lawmakers and saying, you must do this. They know their voters want them to stay in line.

[Stephen A. Smith]

With that being said, is it a situation right now where one could easily argue this is the most powerful president we may have ever seen? Have we ever seen a president that has such dominion over his party to oppose point where he could control their vote the way that Trump appears to have that level of control.

[Robert Costa]

It's such an important point, Stephen, because when you step back, you see not only is he so powerful inside the Republican Party, but he's using executive power in such a new and unprecedented way. The next president, maybe Stephen A. Smith, if he decides to run.

[Stephen A. Smith]

And I'll be able to use executive power like that. Because he said, well, the next president.

[Robert Costa]

Going to be able to really test the bounds because you have the. Usually when we go, we grew up, whether you're in New York or I grew up in Philadelphia suburbs. You study history and you learn about Congress. It has power Congress. Now it's almost a side story here in Washington. Everything's going through the executive branch and I'm telling you, when I talk to prospective presidential contenders, they're all watching President Trump because they're saying, if I get that White House come January 2029, Trump has now created a whole system where all the levers of power are out of that Oval Office. You don't necessarily need to go through Congress.

[Stephen A. Smith]

But he still did it because of the power he has in Congress, because they're going to capitulate to his demands. I'm talking about the Republicans.

[Robert Costa]

He's rolled Congress.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I told people this all the time. It's not like he's doing it of his own volition. They're capitulating to him because they want to remain in power and they refuse to go up against him. So it's still going through the process, which is why the Democrats can't really touch him, no matter how many complaints they have about the House. And the House is willingness to defer to him.

[Robert Costa]

And he's a movement. That's the whole thing. When I'm up at the Capitol, I say, why aren't you fighting President Trump more if you disagree with him on so many things among the Republicans? And they say, I don't have a movement behind me. The question is, can anyone compete with President Trump in his movement? Is there anybody? Now, Senator Bernie Sanders has a movement on the left. He's older. Who knows where that goes on the left. You see Mamdani in New York trying to kind of jump on to what Sanders has built a foundation for in New York City, that, that progressive movement. But in the Republican Party, there's no counter movement. You hear talk about the conservative movement. It's all been absorbed into President Trump.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Robert Costas, CBS News correspondent, right here with a White House news correspondent, right here with Stephen, A Straight shooter with Stephen A. The shutdown itself. Getting back to that real quickly, who's going to suffer the most if this. The longer this gets taken, this takes to resolve. Because what we're talking about with President Trump, he almost seems untouchable. But then again, if American people can't pay their bills, that might touch him. Because obviously he's somebody that prides himself on saying, the economy is good under me, unemployment is low under me, et cetera, et cetera. What will happen if this continues? Who's going to suffer more, the Democrats or the Republicans?

[Robert Costa]

Well, Marjorie Taylor Greene, the congresswoman from Georgia, she's the tell. She's out there saying Trump voters are feeling pain on health care prices. And so there is this quiet movement on the right to get something done on these Affordable Care act subsidies. So I, based on my reporting, I see a deal on the horizon. There's going to be a lot of theater, a lot of grandstanding. But at the end of the day, my Republican sources want something done on health care, because their own voters, especially in rural states, in poorer states, they need something done on health care. And health care is going to be a big issue in 2026 in the midterms.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Do you agree with the Democrats position to hold down the fort in this regard and really, really stay, you know, willing, have a willingness to shut down the government? They're saying, hey, this is what we need to do, because Affordable Care act is the primary issue. We need to make sure that that's addressed. Your mentality is that they're doing the right thing with their standoff, with this.

[Robert Costa]

I've been up there talking to them privately, Steven. It's not just about health care for them. If you go around this country and you say to people, do you know who Senator Chuck Schumer is? Could you look at him in a lineup and place him. Could you place Representative Hakeem Jeffries out? Most people don't know who the Democrats now are. For many years, it was President Biden.

[Royce White]

Biden.

[Robert Costa]

It was Vice President Harris. The photo image of the Republic Democratic Party has changed. They're trying to get awareness of this new party now. Especially for Hakeem Jeffries, this is a real moment for him. Can he define himself to the country as someone who confronts President Trump? Now, there are people out in the states like Governor Pritzker in Illinois, Governor Newsom in California, who are taking their own stands against ICE in the National Guard. But Congress, Congress, they're so overshadowed by Trump, they're trying to get some attention. So it's about health care, but it's also about the Democrats saying, hey, we're here, we're in Washington, and we're trying.

[Stephen A. Smith]

But the Democrats are leaning more progressive in terms of popularity.

[Robert Costa]

Oh, there's a real tension there.

[Stephen A. Smith]

There's real tension there. And my attitude is they can win California, they can win New York. But to win a general election, to get people to veer away from capitalism and be more so, I mean, they're calling themselves Democratic, Democratic, Socialist, for crying out loud, Mom, Donnie, somebody like that. And in one, you know, you just saw Royce White acknowledge. U.S. senate candidate in Minnesota acknowledge. Yeah, that's a palpable fear, because that could be a movement that generates traction around this country. Is that what the Democrats, the traditional conventional Democrats are fearing or do they believe as much ado about nothing? It's just a nuisance that they have to deal with.

[Robert Costa]

We're looking at a real potential fight in the Democratic Party. Think about what's going on in New Jersey and Virginia with these off year elections in just a few weeks. You have centrist Democratic women who might win in these races for governor in Jersey and in Virginia. But you got in New York City, a self described Democratic socialist who's on the precipice of victory. Who defines the Democratic Party in 2026? Is it the centrists in Jersey and Virginia or is it Zoram Mamdani? And I'll say something about Zoran Mamdani. I just covered him in New York City. I was up In Washington Heights, 33 years old, a lot of charisma. You had white Americans in their 30s and 40s, black Americans in their 20s, 30s and 40s in this room, Latinos, you had Asian Americans. Now it's New York City. It was Washington Heights. It's a Democratic Party. But you see that Bernie Sanders movement, it's starting to draw in people who are disaffected in this culture. They're disaffected in this economy and they're looking for somebody who's going to break the system. It reminds me in a way of covering Trump back in 15 and 16, he was the hammer to the system. People don't even know much about Zoran Mamdani in New York, but he's a hammer to the system they believe has failed them.

[Stephen A. Smith]

What about aoc? Because it looks like people have been talking about her for president, but I'm thinking about her and the Senate.

[Robert Costa]

Could be Chuck Schumer's up in 2028, a few years away.

[Royce White]

Right.

[Robert Costa]

But it's very possible.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Is that what she's eyeing?

[Robert Costa]

I think she's. It's not clear what she wants. It's one of the biggest questions.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Why wouldn't she be? She seems to be clear about everything else.

[Robert Costa]

I know, I know some of her well. They may be eyeing the White House. Why aim for the Senate when you have the big prize looming of in front of you?

[Stephen A. Smith]

I got you. Let's transition to the Gaza peace deal. How much? I don't want to say the word credit, but how much has that that benefited President Donald Trump? I mean, it's like 20 different points to it. We already hear news that Hamas is violating elements of the deal, et cetera. I don't know what the latest is. You could tell me that. But how good Does President Trump look in all of this?

[Robert Costa]

Well, I've spoken to President Trump about this. He wants to be seen as the peacemaker president. But you just nailed it, Stephen. Every hour it seems to change about what's actually going on on the ground in Gaza. Is Hamas going to disarm? Is Israel going to evaluate the situation and change its position? So this is an evolving situation, but President Trump's confident he did something historic. He's on the COVID of Time magazine. He's got every Republican in the country pushing him for the Nobel Peace Prize. So it's certainly a juncture in his presidency that he's pushing him for the.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Nobel Peace Prize because he wants them to or because they genuinely feel.

[Robert Costa]

Well, they genuinely feel that, too, but they know he wants it a lot.

[Representative Chip Roy]

Okay.

[Stephen A. Smith]

And why does he want it so much? Because Obama got it. I mean, what was it? What's the reason?

[Robert Costa]

I've asked him about this. He believes he's doing a lot on peace, whether it's Ukraine, Russia or Gaza. He doesn't believe he's getting enough credit. He wants credit. This is someone who likes to have credit, whether it's a magazine cover of the Nobel Peace Prize.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Is that why the Middle east is so important to him, or is this something we don't know about?

[Representative Chip Roy]

He.

[Robert Costa]

He has told me.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I mean, he has talked about Trump resorts in Gaza. I mean, he did talk about that before.

[Robert Costa]

And you got a lot of people in the Middle east interested in developing. We'll see what happens. Gaza has been destroyed in many respects, and there's been horrific things happening on the ground there. So the idea of a resort on Gaza, I'm not sure that's going to happen anytime soon.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I think it would be a disaster. I think it would create even more enemies than friends, personally, because it'll be indication of capitalism in the Western world. Invading the Middle East, I don't think that would be a great idea. That's just my personal opinion. But what do I know?

[Robert Costa]

Well, you might be running.

[Stephen A. Smith]

That's how I feel. I'm just telling you how I feel. I'm just telling you how I feel. But go ahead.

[Robert Costa]

You're seeing right now so many presidents, whether it's President Trump or President Biden, President Obama, they've been vexed by how to handle the Middle east and especially Prime Minister Netanyahu, because he's an independent person. He doesn't listen necessarily to everything a United States president has to say. Now they've gotten everybody to the table. 4 Will, what is a very Fragile piece. He's proud of it, he's touting it. But every day this seems to change. And Prime Minister Netanyahu told CBS News just this week that he's watching what Hamas does every second and if they break any part of this 20 point plan, he'll walk away.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Before I let you get on out of here, let me get back to Mamdani for a second because there's a debate that's about to take place. What must Mandani do to protect the lead that he has?

[Robert Costa]

He was on Fox News earlier today. He turns everything back to the economy and healthcare and costs. He thinks he can win this race by not saying, I'm a democratic socialist, but by saying I'm going to freeze rental prices, I'm going to make busing free in New York City and I'm going to have universal childcare. And you have people like the governor of New York, Kathy Hochul, they're signing on to his big spending ideas like universal childcare because they see in him promise to a lot of people who feel very aggrieved in how they live their lives. And they want to see the government step in.

[George Trulley]

Are they doing it for that reason?

[Stephen A. Smith]

Are they doing it because they want to do everything to ensure that Andrew Cuomo doesn't regain any seat of power?

[Robert Costa]

Well, if there's one uniting thread in that mayoral race, it's the anger towards former Governor Cuomo. I detected it up on the ground in New York City. You're in New York City all the time. He's rubbed a lot of people the wrong way. I mean, you think about him at his high point or the pandemic, having all those press conferences. That's past. That's history.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Do you think he's got a chance to win this race?

[Robert Costa]

New York's peculiar. Remember, they elected Michael Bloomberg, they elected Rudy Giuliani. It seems like a city that's left of center, left wing even, but they have a tendency sometimes to drift toward the center. But at this point, because of all the consternation about Mayor Adams, about former Governor Cuomo, at this point, let's just say the Mamdani team who I huddled with a bid up in New York, they're feeling very confident.

[Stephen A. Smith]

You've, you've seen me and the nonsense I've had to deal with over the last week because I had the unmitigated goal, I asked welcome to Politics to ask a question about whether or not Representative Jasmine Crockett strategy to, about insulting the president or whatever would work. And the reaction That I get was, you know, an eerie reminder of how politics was years ago. Whether you call it culture, you know, you know, just identity politics, where you talk about woke culture, whatever words anybody wants to use. It just reminded me of a point where it wasn't even safe to ask questions. It wasn't even safe to say anything. I don't care. I'm going to do it anyway. But I'm wondering what your thoughts are about Mamdani winning and what that would mean for America, especially compared comparing it to what we saw, one would say during the Biden administration, what those times were like.

[Robert Costa]

I think there's a connection between what you've experienced in recent days and what Mamdani is doing in one particular way. He's playing by his own set of rules. He didn't listen to the Democratic establishment or the political establishment or the media about the norms of debate, about how people run. A 33 year old with little experience now going to become one of the most powerful people in the country. Mayor of New York City, usually you take a lot of time getting there and there's a certain kind of invisible set of rules you follow. He eschewed them. He said, no, thanks. I'm going to do my own thing. And it looks like he's going to potentially be very successful. Your episode is an example of how you're going to be who you are. But so many people here in Washington, I've been covering Washington for a long time. They play by a strong certain set of rules that's been set long time ago. And you walk in and you say, I'm not gonna follow those rules. Now some people get burned out, they get pushed out. They feel like they can't handle the heat. But that's kind of the cauldron of Washington episodes like this. For outsiders like yourself who come in or like mom, Donnie, who come into the system, they get tested every day. Because when I'm up there at the Capitol, Stephen, what I really see is people who've been there a long time and they've survived by testing others who come in and can't handle the heat. So can you handle the heat?

[Stephen A. Smith]

We'll find out. Appreciate it. Thanks a lot, my man.

[Robert Costa]

Thank you.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Thanks a lot. Only Robert Costa, right here, national correspondent for CBS News Sunday Morning, the chief Washington analyst for CBS News. You've heard them. I like them. I like them a lot. Like talking to him. Love talking to y' all over the last two hours as well. There's a lot that I had to say. There's a lot of more that I would have to say. I just, I don't want to be the bearer of bad news. I really, really don't. But it is important for me to let the audience know that the opening monologue today was just a taste of what's coming. People get on my damn nerves sometimes. And when they get my attention.

[Representative Chip Roy]

It'S.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Not all always a good thing. More Straight Shooter with Stephen A. Last segment to close out the show in a minute.

[George Trulley]

Just a few minutes left.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Right back here with Straight Shooter Stephen A. Smith, SiriusXM Polders Channel 124. We're gonna get to tweets to end the show today. Gonna go out with some tweets. Somebody named Seth Handle Twitter handle x handle at seth77349440 writes, if the field could open for a third party in the United States, Stephen A. That could operate with significant political power, let's say 20%. What ideology do you imagine and or hope this party would form around? It's not about an ideology, Seth. It's not about an ideology. It's about the fact that you have your ideas of what you believe is in the best interest of the country. Keep an open mind and listen to somebody else.

[George Trulley]

And if they have a better idea, hey, it's better for America. I'll take that. Because when you keep an open mind, somebody has an opportunity to reach you. When they have an opportunity to reach you, they want to talk to you, they want to listen to you. And all compromise isn't bad because everybody doesn't have the same wants and needs.

[Stephen A. Smith]

We're not.

[George Trulley]

We're not a monolithic people. As a human race, yes, we all bleed. Yes, we all pass gas. Yes, we all sleep. All that stuff is true. Yes, we all got to eat. But we don't want the same things. We don't desire the same things. We don't need the same things. Keep an open mind. You know what else that serves to.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Do that prevents us from being at the mercy of what one would call the mob? Because what you don't want to do is find yourself in a situation where folks get a bit rabid and out of control because they're so disgusted. You know why they're really disgusted? Because they're helpless to get us to get our act together. That's why they react that way, because we're giving them no indication that change could arrive. Next tweet. This is from was it wilds3ro. What steps can you take to unify the country? What I just said having ideas, being forward thinking, not always looking back. Yes, you can look back to make sure that you don't repeat the same errors twice. That may have afflicted this country. But you could also look forward because forward is where hope lies. You understand? Obama won the presidency not in 2008, but essentially in 2004 when he gave his speech at the Democratic National Convention saying it's not a blue state, it's.

[George Trulley]

Not a red state, it's the United States. You provided hope. What do we hear from both sides now we don't get our way is gloom and doom. Your world is going to end. It's going to end.

[Stephen A. Smith]

We got to stop that. That doesn't work to our benefit. We got to do better than that. Next tweet at lakeith 1911 they write.

[George Trulley]

Question can anyone on either side of.

[Stephen A. Smith]

The imaginary aisle ever see a future that isn't filled with so much hate and disdain for anyone that doesn't look or think like them? Not the way we are acting, not the way the far progressive left acts, not the way that folks who support Jasmine Crockett acted towards me this week. Not the way MAGA young Republicans who are MAGA was spewing their hatred and.

[George Trulley]

Their rhetoric only to be, you know.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Assuage as far as I'm concerned, smooth.

[George Trulley]

Over BY Vice President J.D. vince you gotta come out with a.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Strong statement in that if you vice.

[George Trulley]

President see this is when people bring up stuff like white nationalism and stuff like that about the vice president that makes me say hum because you should have been stronger in your rebuke against that verbiage, that rhetoric. But he wasn't.

[Stephen A. Smith]

But we'll talk about that another day. Last tweet let's go with this right here. Okay, let's see what this is.

[George Trulley]

At Nate City 11 who has the.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Best chance to defeat Vance and Rubio on a democratic side in 2008? The answer would be no one. Not a. Not a damn soul. But I like Ossoff. I believe that's the correct pronunciation of also for Ossoff out of Georgia. I think that he's. I think that I like him. I like how he sounds, I do. But I gotta be honest with you. If this Israel Hamas deal comes out to be more positive than anything else, I don't think anybody's gonna be able to compete with Marco Rubio, who Trump called maybe the greatest secretary of state in American history. Marco Rubio gets things done. He's former senator. He's now secretary of state and national security advisor. He is no joke.

[George Trulley]

I put him above Vice President Vance.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I can tell you that much. Stephen A. Signing off. Straight shooter with Stephen A. Until next time. Peace of love, everybody.