David Falk (4:01)

Good. Ashley, delighted to be with us.

Rich Paul (4:04)

You said what you said. You've had an opportunity to reflect on what you had to say about LeBron James in comparison to Michael Jordan. The floor is yours. What would you like to say?

David Falk (4:13)

Now let me say at the outset, clearly LeBron James is a great player in any era. You'd be foolish to suggest otherwise. His longevity is. His statistics are amazing. I think what makes Michael goes way beyond the court. I think on the court, Michael obviated the center position. Prior to Jordan, he needed the Elijah wants, the Ewings, the Kareems, the Bob Laniers. And the way Michael played, he made it unnecessary to have a great center. Look who he won the champions, Bill Weddington, Dickie Simpkins, Bill Cartwright. And I think that had a huge impact on the game. Secondly, and perhaps even more importantly, I think Michael individually broke down every barrier that existed for professional basketball players and in particular African American professional basketball players to become national marketing brand ambassadors. So the whole generation of LeBron's and Kobe's and Steph Curry's having their own shoes and being in commercials did not exist before Michael came in the game. Magic didn't have it, Bird didn't have it, Dr. J didn't have it, Kareem didn't have it. And I think that's a preponderant impact. I think third, I believe he's the first NBA player to become a billionaire. I believe he's the first NBA player to become a majority owner of an NBA team. And finally, finally, he had a tremendous impact on fashion. He changed the look of the way the players play with the Long shorts he made bald as beautiful. And so I think beyond comparing statistics, who have more points, who average more even who had more championships, I think Michael's impact is extremely broad and deep in what he did to change the game. I don't think any other player in history kind of an impact.

Rich Paul (6:12)

What do you make of people who would look. And I'm going to. I want to get far beyond those two individuals that we're talking about for the moment. But I got this one question to ask you. What do you make of folks and their assertions that the times that we're living in now, the advent of social media, the digital stratosphere, the microscope that is on players in today's game like never before, the impression is given that even the great Michael Jordan, with his unparalleled popularity, I compare him to no one. The only person I've ever compared him to was Michael Jackson, for crying out loud. That's how popular Michael Jordan was. When you listen to people talk today, they talk about the climate, the environment, the society that we're living in today. And they say it's far more invasive than it has ever been, which makes the road tougher for a guy like LeBron James compared to what Jordan had to endure during his compl. His playing career. You've been around a long time. You know this business like the back of your hand. What do you make of that, of those assertions?

David Falk (7:16)

Clearly, social media has brought the fans closer to the players. Everyone can express their opinion. You don't have to work for a newspaper or a television station to have an opinion. But I think it's the natural tendency when you're the best at anything. There's a human tendency to try to tear people down. And certainly Michael had that because of his immense popularity. People criticize him, for example, for not being political enough, not expressing his desire for certain candidates. And so, sure, I think that the social media has changed the game. I also think if you want to be objective, the game has changed itself. I had this discussion about a month ago with Ron Thor, who's a very dear friend of mine, who drafted Michael Jordan. And he said to me, which I didn't know, he said, do you realize today that the average NBA team takes one third more shots than they did in Jordan? Zero. So when Jordan averaged 38 points a game, if you, if you increase that by a third, that means he would average 52. Now, I think Michael could have averaged. And Michael took 1.7 threes per game. That's all he took. I think he could have averaged almost anything he wanted if it, if that was what was required to win. That's all he cared about, was winning. And I think his record of 6 out of 6 is the greatest in the history of the NBA. Never lost, never lost the championship.

Rich Paul (8:45)

Well, don't forget, he also never allowed a championship series to get to a seventh game. He took you out in six or less every single time. That's the Michael Jordan that we're talking about here. David, if you. Expanding beyond Michael Jordan and LeBron James, when we think about the age that we're living in, one of the discussions your comments prompted was player empowerment and the kind of things that have taken place in today's NBA and in today's sports world. As an, as an agent looking at the state of affairs that exist not just in the NBA, but professional sports as it pertains to sovereignty involving players, player empowerment, et cetera, et cetera. What are the kind of thoughts that come to your mind as to what we're witnessing today and whether or not it's good or it's bad for the world of sports in this day and age?

David Falk (9:36)

Great question. So, number one, I believe that players, great players, have only been empowered. I think the biggest difference between today's generation of players is, and if you will, Jordan's generation, the Magic's generation, is how the players exercise the power. Now, if you understand that in 1982, that was a long time ago, the NBA ushered in a salary cap and for the last 43 years, the players have essentially owned 50% of the revenues. So they're 50, 50 partners with the league. The only way players can make more money is to grow the business of the NBA. Now, I believe that when players exercise their power poorly and they make statements that denigrate the game, I think that they're impeding the ability of themselves to make more money, which is foolish. So I'll give you a couple of examples. You want to talk about player empowerment. In 1984 and 1985 were two players in the history of the game that opted out of the group licensing program. One was named Michael Jordan, one was named Patrick Ewing. They did not allow the league to use them in group licensing, and I opted him out of both of them. You're not allowed to do that today. In 1985, Patrick became the first player in history to have an early termination option in his contract. He signed a 10 year deal to three times more money than Magic made the year before as a veteran, and he had the option to opt out after six years, if market conditions change, that is empowerment. Michael Jordan was the first player to have a love of the game clause that did not require him to. That allowed him to practice at North Carolina in the summer, which came to be Conan's known as the love of the game clause. Darnell Valentine in 1980 became the first player to challenge the league's ability under paragraph 13B to prevent players from doing endorsements or interviews without permission of the team. That's in every contract now. Valentine versus the Portland Trailblazers. So I can give you 100 examples of player empowerment. Patrick Ewing became the first rookie in history to be the highest paid player in the league. He made 55% more money than Kareem, who's the highest paid veteran of all time. I believe that that's empowerment. Danny Ferry did the same thing in 1990 and he clearly was not one of the great players in the history of the league. So I believe the players in every sport have always had tremendous power, but I think that today I don't think they use it as judiciously as they should if the goal is to make more money and grow the business.

Rich Paul (12:33)

Well, let me ask you this, David. Give me an example if you can. If it's compromising, please don't bother. But if you can give me an example of players that have exercised influence and exercised power but you don't believe it's necessarily for their good or for the good of the game, could you highlight an example that that wouldn't be good to illustrate your point?

David Falk (12:57)

Well, the simplest one I would say is. Is traders. Okay. Now I personally, personally probably made 10 or 15 major trades. I made the Patrick Union trade to Seattle. I didn't want to make it. I didn't believe in it. But he and the Knicks agreed it would be best to have a change of scenery. It was a 13 player train. I traded stuff on Marbury Jersey in a 13 player trade with Sam Cassell. I did that behind the scenes the minute you announced publicly as a player that you're not going to play anymore. Hardly. As an example, you know, it makes it so much harder to make the trade for the exact reason that Rich Paul indicated is hard for LeBron. Because you're shining the spotlight on the player and the other teams around the league know that the player is demanded a trade. He doesn't want to be there, it's going to be a problem. And so they're not going to offer fair value. And so the very goal the player has of moving, he frustrates Makes more difficult by, you know, by publicly announcing it. Now, the opposite of that, interestingly to me, and I'm a big Nico Harrison fan, is the fact that Dallas only talked to one team to trade Luca. You know, Luke is one of the top five players in the league. And yeah, there wasn't competitive bidding. I know they had their reasons for it. I don't understand all the dynamics, so I'm not here to criticize it. But it surprised me that if you're going to. If you're going to sell one of the most valuable assets in the league, that you wouldn't want to have the highest level of competitive bidding. But the trade is the easiest example. I could give you, Stephen, or I'll give you an example on the agent side. Okay. I believe that every time an agent comes out publicly and says any of the following, my players not getting enough playing time, not getting enough shots, not making enough money, the team is taking advantage of them. They are advertising that they've done a really lousy job of being an agent because if they were doing a good job, none of those things would be happening. And if they were happening, then the answer is to sit down with the owner or the general manager behind the scenes and try and figure out a way to improve. I'm going to tell you a funny story, okay? In 2000, I saw my only high school player in my 50 year career, a guy named Darius Miles. He was the third pick in the draft. And yes, I went to a game one night in LA to see Elton Brand. Our company at that time represented eight of the players on the Clippers. Eight. I didn't represent the ball myself, Ali. I don't. I walk into the locker room to see Elton and he motions me to talk to Darius. Apparently, on the way from the locker room, from the court into the locker room, Darius hadn't played a minute. He cursed out the coach, Alva Gentry, who I've known since he was the assistant coach, Larry Brown at Kansas. Great guy. So I go over to Alvin. I say, alvin, what's the problem? He said, david, I love you. I love Darius, but he's not working hard enough. So, okay. So I told Darius to come to my hotel room the next day. And I said to him, son, do you want to play or do you want to sit on the bench? He said, of course I want to play, Mr. Falk. That's why I'm unhappy. I said, well, I don't think you want to play. And he said, why would you say that? I said, because if you want to play, you have to show the coach that you want to play. And the way you show is by working harder. He doesn't feel you work hard enough. And I promise you that if you work harder, he will play you more. That was on a Thursday. The next night they played the Houston rockets. Darius played 30 minutes and had 21:9. I went to congratulate him after the game, couldn't find him. Where do you think he was? He was in the weight room. Probably the coaches after the game.

Rich Paul (16:55)

He's in the weight room now.

David Falk (16:56)

I went up to coach Gentry, who I really like, and said, Alvin is this complicated. You want him to play, you want him to work and he wants to play. Now, most coaches in the NBA today are reluctant to tell their players they're not working hard enough. Now, I'm not talking about the Popoviches or the Pat Riley's, I'm talking about the younger coaches because they're afraid they're going to lose the relationship with the players. The players are so much of. They don't want to tell a coach that is bothering them that they're not playing. They don't think that's cool. And I think you need to communicate. So my job is to talk to a guy like Alvin and tell him that. And it solved the problem. And so I think that, I think on both sides this is a thing that should be done behind the scenes privately. My mom, who is a very highly educated woman, my life mentor, she taught me when I was very young, never hang your dirty laundry out publicly. And so I think demanding trades, complaining about how much you're making, those things are not productive to achieving the result that you want to achieve. And on top of it, I think it demeans the game. And I think one of the great differences between Jordan's era and today's, I think the players had a much greater as a whole. Not saying every single player had a much greater respect for the game as a whole. I'm going to tell you a great story you've never heard. When Michael Jordan.

Rich Paul (18:25)

Okay, please.

David Falk (18:25)

Was recruited by Ted Leonzis, the current owner of the Washington Wizards, to come to Washington, be the president. The day he was going to get final approval from a Poland Wes Uncell to his GM of the team and the face of the franchise for many years from 1967, this was 1999, he called me up and asked me to set up a meeting for him with Michael. I didn't attend the meeting, but apparently at the meeting Wes told Michael he Was going to leave when Michael came. And Michael told him, if you leave, I will not come. I respect you. You paid the path. Young players like myself, what's the problem? And Wes said, have nothing to do with you. Abe Poland runs around telling everyone else that he's like my father and I'm the lowest paid general manager in the entire NBA. He's disrespecting me and I'm quitting. And Michael said to him, don't, please don't quit. I will take care of this. So went to Poland's house and Poland says to him, I'm ready to hire him. Very excited to hire you. What should I pay you? And Michael, who's a very, very intelligent man and a very savvy businessman, said, pay me what you think is fair. And Paul said to him, well, I understand the range of salaries for a president team is between 1 million and 2 million. So I'd like to pay you 1 million. And I think Ted probably had a heart attack when he heard that because he figured all that work was over. And Jordan told him and said, I have a suggestion. Why don't you pay me 2 million, give 1 of my 2 million to Wes and I'm going to give the other million to charity. He worked for free and he took care of us. So Michael had a tremendous respect, the players that paved the path before him. Now one of the things that he's done is he, he's allowed the whole generations that came after him for the past 40 years to enjoy incredible commercial success off the court. And again, that's one of the reasons I think he's the goat. But he always expressed a tremendous. Whatever differences he might have had with Jerry Krause. And if you saw the Last Dance, they were men.

Rich Paul (20:35)

Of course I did. Of course I did.

David Falk (20:37)

Kept it private. Now I was amused when Rich Paul, who I really like, said that Michael had the advantage of having Jerry Krause. And I don't want to say anything negative about Jerry Krause because he died and I'm good friends with Reinsdorf. But if you ask me, when I put, when I put him in my top 25 GMs over the last 50 years, I would not, I would not. If you made a lot of very imprudent decisions. He drafted Charles Oakley over Carl Malone. He drafted Brad Sellers over Johnny Dawkins, the national player there. I think he made a lot of terrible decisions. But they won. And that's all, that's all that matters.

Rich Paul (21:17)

David, I want to know. I'm very, I'VE always been very interested in asking you this question. When Magic Johnson and Larry Bird came into the league, obviously they deserve an immense credit for building the popularity of the NBA brand. Most would argue Jordan took it to another level, but he did so because his individual greatness was so supreme, so, so, so awesome that, you know, he took the game in a different direction, but it also individualized the game more. And as a result, people view that as hurting the game. I look at LeBron, and not that he decided to depart from Cleveland to Miami, but how he handled it. As you talk about respecting the game, respecting the league, respecting the owner, et cetera, and the fact that he was willing to be so publicly defiant, or dare I say dismissive of Dan Gilbert at that time, I thought it served to compromise player empowerment to some degree, because collective bargaining negotiations took place thereafter. Remember, there was a Chris Paul trade to the Lakers that was ultimately nixed once Dan Gilbert erased holy hell by writing a public letter to, to the league, et cetera. When you think about the damage that has been done to the league, which obviously is flourishing, and so we got to be careful with that word, damaging. But if there's a negative, is it veering away from team with Bird and Magic in Boston and la, to the individual greatness of a Michael Jordan, or is it along the lines of player and power, empowerment and sovereignty exercised by the likes of LeBron James that clearly has appeared to have a residual impact? What is your thought about that question?

David Falk (23:05)

Well, first of all, when LeBron went to Miami, he was a free agent. He had the right to pick any team in the league that he thought would best. I have no. I think the mistake he made, in my opinion, was a power. The PR mistake was when he did the show, the decision with Jim Grave, and he said, I'm going to win not one, not two, not three, but eight titles, which he still hasn't won. I think if I were LeBron's, and I love Maverick Carter, I'm very good friends with Maverick Carter. Who's, who's. Who's LeBron's marketing guy, I would have told him, do the interview. And the day you win your first ring, the first, not eight, have a show, hold up the ring and say, this is why I came to Miami. This is. I couldn't achieve this in Cleveland. Now, interestingly, if I can give you a contrast, and I'm not saying one is right, one's wrong, it's just personal preference. I asked Michael once, would you ever like to play with Birdie Magic Sort of like to recreate the Dream Team Olympic Burns. And he said, are you nuts? I would never want to play with Bird Magic. I wanted to beat their butts every night on a one on one competitive level and just different personalities. That doesn't make LeBron's choice wrong. And I want to be crystal clear. I have great respect for LeBron as a player. I think his longevity, his impact, he's a great athlete. I think probably could have played other sports. And clearly, when they asked me, do I think he's in the top 10? Of course I think he's the top 10. Now, I had an interesting discussion over dinner with President Obama about this very subject, like, who's number one, who's number two? I would say to you publicly, what difference does it make who's number two? Only thing that makes a difference is who's number one. You know, who runs around four years. I say, God, don't you think that the team that lost that super bowl was a great team? No, they didn't win the super bowl, either one, or you're not. And clearly LeBron will be in the pantheon of great players for a lot of years. Now, you could say arguably that the greatest player was Bill Russell because he won most championships, 11 out of 13. You could say Oscar Robertson was the greatest player because he averaged a triple double. When Michael was asked in Cleveland, when they presented the top 75 players of all time, who do you think is the greatest player of all time? Without hesitating, he said, oscar Robertson. When they asked LeBron who's the greatest player of all time, without hesitating, he said, lebron James. Now, if someone asked me, who do you think is the greatest agent ever of all time? I say, Larry Fleischer. He was the head of the union. He created the rules that allowed free agency, all the things he did. Now, if someone thought that I was the greatest, I would let them say that. I would let you say that. I would never say that myself. I just don't think it's appropriate for you to have to make that comment. But. But I want to be crystal clear nationally, I would never want to offend LeBron James. I like him. I think we have a good relationship. I think I have a pretty good relationship with Rich and Maverick, and. And I admire LeBron for his commitment to the game, his longevity, and I think he's a completely different kind of a player than Michael. Most people that I respected basketball. If you were comparing Kobe and LeBron, say Kobe's more like Michael and Lebron's more like Magic. I'm an. I can make an argument that Magic Johnson is one of the greatest players of all time. Now think about this, Steven. Okay? In 1979 in the NCAA final, Magic Squared off against Bird. At the time, it was the highest rated game in the history of basketball at any level. Magic one. One year later, the Lakers are playing Philly in the your home, the NBA finals and in game, Kareem gets hurt. Magic play center. I don't know the exact. I think he had 37 and 14, had the baby hook to win the game.

Rich Paul (27:23)

He had 42. He had 42. He had forty two. Yep.

David Falk (27:26)

42 and 17. Right. Huge rebounds. He, he won the game, was the finals MVP and rookie of the year. Now if he had a one year career, and I'm here to give my props to Magic Johnson from the time he won the NCAA to the top, he'd be in the hall of Fame just for that one year. That was one of the greatest impacts in basketball, college and pro in one year. On top of that, you know, as popular as Michael is, I think if Magic had the proper representation as a rookie and we try to sign, we actually thought we're going to represent Magic. I think Magic could have done a lot of the things that Michael did at 84 in 1979, but he didn't have an agent that had the marketing background or savvy to understand the impact that Magic made in the number one media market, entertainment market in the United States.

Rich Paul (28:21)

David, before I let you get on out of here, I'd be remiss in neglecting to ask you this question. You and I go back many years, many decades. We've known each other since 1990, for crying out loud. You know, rough around the edges at the beginning because I was ignorant and didn't know any better and didn't appreciate your brilliance until later on when you took me under your wing and taught me so many things over the years. I can't even express my level of gratitude to you and we're friends to this day. I wonder, and I want to end this interview by asking you being, I'll say it, arguably the greatest agent ever in any sport. Considering what you know, what you've negotiated, the connections that you have had, the inroads you have made along the way to influence the game, to influence sports overall, what are your thoughts about today's business as it pertains to agents in today's business compared to what it was when you were doing it? I'll give you the floor. That's my very last question to you. Take the floor and answer that question, please.

David Falk (29:27)

It's a great question. So number one, I think that the principal role of an agent in business, whether you're a Hollywood agent or sports agent, is to negotiate contracts and something. Approximately 70% of all the contracts in the NBA today are not negotiated at all. If you're, if you're Wembayama and you're coming in the league as the number one pick or Cooper Flag, there's no negotiations. There's a weight scale. If you're a great player like LeBron or Curry, Kevin Durant, Luka Doncic, there's no negotiations, there's a maximum. If you're an average player, most of the teams are pretty well capped. There are mid level exceptions, biannual exceptions, there are minimums. And so the role of an agent has been dramatically curtailed by the rules. It's very hard to make an impact. If I could give you an example. So in my career, as I mentioned, I had two rookies who are the highest paid players of all time. I negotiated the first ever 100 million dollar contract, Alonzo Mourning in 1995 for 116 million dollars for 13 years. And I made him turn it down. One year later he signed for 105 for seven, he would have played six years for free. And he thought I'd lost my mind. When I told him to turn it down, that was dramatically higher. I negotiated contract the same year for Juwan Howard, who's a great friend and a great player. He made 70% more money than Chris Weber on the same team, playing the same position. They went to the same college. I couldn't do that today. I remember you can't do. So the ability to separate, like in football, a great receiver separates himself. That's how he catches the ball. In today's NBA an agent can't separate himself. And that frustrates me. It takes away a lot of your creativity. A lot of the things that I did that enabled me. Now I want to return the favor to my friend Rich Paul. I was disappointed that Rich Paul mistakenly compared my comment about cherry picking, which means that you are picking where you want to go, which was your player has every right to do as a free agent to the fact that three of the greatest coaches in the history of college basketball, Dean Smith, John Thompson and Coach K recommended me to their players. And the reason he recommended me wasn't because they liked me. It's because our track record with the rookies was so superior to anyone else in the business that it was an easy decision for them. Now, if I could give you and your listeners an analogy. To answer your very specific question, Stephen, I think the greatest investor in the history of the United States was Warren Buffett, and he's also one of the richest men. Now, if. If the securities Exchange Commission, which regulates investments, passed a rule and said no investment manager can get more than a 6% return. You know, it's illegal to get more than 6%, he would turn Warren Buffett into a first year kid out of business school. I'll give you another example, okay? And I use this frequently. I'm going to take LeBron back to his days in Cleveland, okay? Early days, the NBA passes the rule. They say no player could score more than 12 points a game. It's like fouling out once you hit 12, you got to sit down. Now, a guy like LeBron James would score 12 points in the first three minutes of the game. He could literally go to a movie, come back and meet with his teammates, you know, after the game. So the season ends and he goes out to lunch with his teammate Matthew Dalavodovo, and he says, dalley, what kind of year did you have? And Dallas is average 41 minutes and 12 points a game. And how'd you do, LeBron? LeBron said, well, average three minutes and 12 points a game. And Dallas is. Well, I guess we're both the same kind of players because the rules have homogenized LeBron's ability to be LeBron. And that's what the agent business, in my opinion, has become. So I was intrigued when the current mvp, Sheik Gilgames Alexander decided to represent himself. And while I think that there are many reasons that Che Gielgis Alexander needs an agent, he may want to get traded. He may be having problems with the team. And there's a famous expression, Stephen, that a lawyer who represents himself has a full for client. And so it's very difficult to walk in and say, I should be, you know, I don't want to be here. That's why you need third party people. But I think that the. I think that a lot of great players are going to do what Kevin Durant did with Rich Kleiman, a little bit what LeBron did with Maverick Carter, and have one person as sort of like their business manager, because the role of the negotiations has declined. Now the other part that's critically important is marketing. And, you know, I think that, you know, I'm starting with Aaron Goodwin. I think Aaron at one point had LeBron Dwight Howard, Kevin Durant and Horford. He did an amazing job for those guys in marketing. He got LeBron the hundred million dollar deal with Nike as a rookie, got a big deal for Dwight Howard. Royalties. I, I think, you know, I think he's. And I think there's a very, very important role for the star players to have someone off the court. But as I said at the conference, if I were coming out of law school today, based on State of the Union in the sports world, I would definitely want to be in sports, but I probably would not want to be an agent. I almost definitely would not want to be an agent. And that's why this spring when my last client, Otto Porter Jr. Retired, I, I, I let it run out. I don't want to sign any more players. I love basketball, love what it's done for me. I am humbled by the fact that some 14 hall of Fame players have entrusted their careers to me, including the goat. Everyone knows, you know, how important that relationship has been in my life. I would expand that include Patrick. Coach Thompson, who's the number one? John Thompson in my book. So you don't know if you read my book the Ball Truth. John Thompson was the most influential man in my life. Not the most influential coach.

Rich Paul (36:01)

Yeah.

David Falk (36:01)

Not the most influential client, the most influent. I learned so much from John that he should have been great man, my great man. And so I've been privileged to work for the best of the brightest, privileged to meet people who are great their profession. Like you. I admire what you've done in your career since we've known each other from the time a cub reporter in Philly and, and I want to end by saying this is not this, you know, last thing I want to say in the day, Magic Isaiah, Mark Guire, Herb Williams, who I really like, represented by a guy named Charlie Tucker, who's a fun guy. I like Charlie. And our guys, they were more urban guys. Our guys all came, as Rich pointed out, from Carolina, Duke, Georgetown, Kansas, you know, and the coaches basically gave us the players. They didn't do it to do us a favor. They didn't do it because they had any benefit. They did it because they wanted their players to make the most money that they could. And there was sort of like, it was like the bloods of the Crips. There was sort of a little competition during the all star game in 85. I won't name names. Some of the players from that group try to recruit Michael to leave us and go with Charlie Tucker and Michael Was really offended because he's such an incredibly loyal person. And, and so it's not a battle between Michael and LeBron. I think that two of the greatest players in history, not necessarily the two greatest players, two of the greatest players in history. LeBron's earned my respect, you know, a long time ago. And if I say anything that offended him, I would publicly apologize. Not my intent, I think. I think, as Michael correctly points out, maybe it's a good way to end the discussion. It is almost impossible to compare players from different eras. When Bill Russell won 11 titles, there were only eight teams in the league. When UCLA won all those championships in a row, There was only 16 teams in the. In the NCAA tournament. It's a lot easier. You start out in the Sweet 16 today. Getting to the Sweet 16 is a pretty good accomplishment for a lot of teams. But what I think separates Michael from every other player is not how many games he won or how many points he scored. It's the impact that he made on the game in so many different areas. As I mentioned earlier, being the first player to be a majority owner, the opportunities that he personally and individually created. You know, there was a whole right bunch of people, Stephen, after Jordan came to the league, it's like the search for the fountain of youth. They want to know, is Harold Miner, nicknamed Baby Jordan, Was he going to be the next guy? Was Penny Hardaway going to be the next guy? At one point it was going to be Ron Harper was going to be the next guy. And the truth is, they'll never be another Michael. They just won't. He came from an incredible family, two parent family, you know, incredible coach. And so let's leave it that, you know, let's leave it that way.

Rich Paul (39:12)

Well, listen, we'll leave it that way. I mean, Michael Jordan is my goat as well. But that's no disrespect to LeBron James. There's no disrespect to being perceived as one of the top two players in the history of basketball or anything like that. But the bottom line is this. No matter how grateful we all are to have seen great players and have witnessed the greatness of guys like them, I've also been great, very, very grateful and very lucky to witness the greatness of you, my man. We go back decades and I appreciate all you've done to edify me and help me along the way in my career. And I'm honored to have had this conversation with you, David Falk. You're one of the best ever. So I really, really appreciate you taking time out of your busy schedule to sit down with me and talk with me about this subject. All right. You take care of yourself, okay? We'll talk soon.

David Falk (39:55)

Try keeping the time. I'm very grateful.

Rich Paul (39:58)

All right, my man. Take care. The one and only David Falk right here on the Stephen A. Smith show of the Digital Airways with YouTube and of course iHeartRadio.

Unknown (40:12)

You see the world differently. Where others see empty lots, you see blueprints. Where others sit in lecture halls. Future leaders choose Ferris State University to build something real. Ready to to dig in and learn through action. Ferris State gives you the tools, the team and training to unleash your potential with paths to high demand careers and in state tuition for non residents. At Ferris State, students don't just study, they build. They lead. They succeed. Visit ferris. Edu Ferris State University we build champions. It is Ryan here and I have a question for you. What do you do when you win? Like are you a fist pumper?

David Falk (40:48)

A woohoo?

Unknown (40:49)

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Rich Paul (41:07)

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David Falk (41:09)

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Stephen A. Smith (41:11)

You're listening to an iHeart podcast.