← The Stephen A. Smith Show
The Stephen A. Smith Show
Interview Only: ESPN Brian Windhorst says KD, Kyrie and Harden were a basketball tragedy.
00:22:27
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- [00:00]
Greg Rosenthal
What's up, everyone? It's Greg Rosenthal, and I'm teaming up with the king of spring, Daniel Jeremiah. He requires me to say that we're going to be bringing you 40s and free agents, the only podcast you'll need this NFL draft season. From DJs mock drafts to my top 101, free agents will have it covered for you with all new episodes every Thursday. Keeping you up to date as we head to the NFL Draft. Listen to 40s and free agents starting on March 6th on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [00:31]
Julie Swerbinks
What's up, everyone? Julie Swerbinks here along with former NHL player Nate Thompson.
- [00:36]
Nate Thompson
We're doing a new podcast together. Here we go.
- [00:38]
Julie Swerbinks
The name Energy Line with Nate and jsb.
- [00:42]
Nate Thompson
Each week we'll get together and talk about hockey life. All topics are fair game, right?
- [00:47]
Julie Swerbinks
Exactly. And you'll never know who will drop by to join us.
- [00:51]
Nate Thompson
Julia's pretty well connected. She has text threads going that you wouldn't believe.
- [00:55]
Julie Swerbinks
Listen to Energy Line with Nate and jsb on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [01:07]
Stephen A. Smith
Now let's get to the NBA, where the undefeated Cleveland Cavaliers met the Boston Celtics last night and oh, look now, but the Lakers are just a half game out of the top spot in the Western Conference. Joining me now to break down the latest headlines around the league is my colleague at espn, senior NBA reporter and writer for espn, an insider as well does a phenomenal job at my day job. Espn, the one and only Brian Windhorse is with yours truly at this moment in time. What's going on, Brian?
- [01:37]
Brian Windhorst
Everything's good, man. I was in the crypto.com arena last night and the vibes around the Lakers are good. I'll just leave it at that.
- [01:44]
Stephen A. Smith
Well, it should be good if I if I drafted a Rookie with the 17th overall pick and I'm JJ Redick, the new rookie head coach who was a sharpshooter in college and the pros, and I see a guy like this kid connect, connecting on 37 points courtesy of nine threes. I'm very, very happy with my prospects. Talk to me about how the Lakers look now compared to how they looked last year. What are your thoughts about them?
- [02:09]
Brian Windhorst
Well, the thing about it is, you know what's confronting JJ Redick is the same thing that was confronting Darvin Ham. He doesn't have a good defensive team. It's essentially the same roster with the exception of Dalton Connect. And that difference has made a Real difference. So basically what Dalton connects ascension has meant and I mean into the starting lineup, not just to be a viable, you know, you know, offensive option is that now JJ Reddick can play Cam Reddish who is a defensive first player next to Dalton Connect and you can get a much more well balanced perimeter. And that's what's happening right now in this six game win streak with the Lakers have done. They've got Cam Reddish out there. He's giving them good defensive minutes. You got Dog connect out there. You got LeBron James playing a lot of point guard alongside Austin Reaves. LeBron's averaging nine assists a game. He had 12 assists against the Jazz last night. Now you've got really a really much more potent perimeter. They still are 25th defensively. Stephen A. They still got to get better there. There's been an absolute dearth of information on Jared Vanderbilt. They said two weeks ago that there was an update coming. No updates come. I'm sure it's not good news eventually what the hope is he can help them but connect. Look, you were said he's 17th pick, you know and I know we heard for months from these scouts saying that this draft was not very good. One of the worst drafts anybody could ever remember. The 16th pick is Jared McCain out of Duke who went to Phil, he's the leader for rookie of the year. The 17th pick was Dalton Connect. Obviously he's making an impact to the Lakers. Every drafter is good players. It looks like Philly and the Lakers hit in the mid teens.
- [03:49]
Stephen A. Smith
I love Connect and I love them. If you remember we were talking about it and I love the pick from day one because I watched him during the NCAA tournament playing for Tennessee. I said this brother's big time. I like him, he's got a lot of potential. And I thought the Lakers were the perfect landing spot for him because of his ability to shoot the basketball and how they struggled with that last year. I also like the idea of him being in the lineup because guess what, not only is he going to make shots, but if he compromises you to some degree defensively but you sacrifice it because of what he brings offensively, well, it ain't like D'Angelo Russell is giving you much defense or whatever. So I don't mind it at all. And can Reddish by the way can shoot. I don't, I don't understand why he isn't an even better shooter in the NBA. When considering coming out of Duke, there was speculation that he could be somebody at 6869 who could shoot the Basketball. Having said all of that, looking at the Western Conference, I watched OKC lose to San Antonio last night without Wembiana. Chris Paul played the sensational game from a leadership perspective, had a double double. But I'm looking at the rest of the Western Conference right now. Nobody's really standing out. So in light of that, how much of a chance are you giving the Lakers at this moment in time to make some noise within the Western Conference?
- [04:51]
Brian Windhorst
Well, look there. Right there, number three. And you know, that was a stunning loss for the Thunder because Devin Vassell was also out of that game for the Spurs. Basically, the spurs best two players. I mean, Chris Paul and any Nike might be there. But the thing about the west is you got to bring it every night. That's one of the things, when I talk to folks in the league right now, they're just like, I can't believe how easy the east is and how brutal the west is. You know, I've been doing this over 20 years, Stephen. You've been doing it even longer than that. I've never seen the imbalance this bad. Where, you know, Philadelphia is bad as they are, they can look themselves in the mirror and say, we have two good weeks. We can be in seventh place, sixth place, and mean it. And where if you in the west have two bad weeks, you can lose ground. It might take you two months to make up, if you're lucky. And so the Lakers have hit a bit of a soft portion of schedule. They've been awesome at home, which is great. You know, you win your home games, they get another home game later this week against the Magic, and that the balance will be eight home games, five road games. So, you know, they're about to go on the road, but they've hit a portion of schedule they can handle. They had New Orleans, they had San Antonio, they get Utah, but they won all those games. You got to put those kind of wins together in the West. Like, I know that this sounds crazy. When you play the Jazz, that now becomes a must win game in the West. And I don't say must win, because if you lose it, there's consequences. But when you play, there's only a couple of teams in the west that aren't really competitive. You have to pound those teams. When you face the New Orleans Pelicans when they're missing four or five guys, you have to win that game because there's going to be other games where you may play great. You run into a bus saw and you lose. So, you know, and none of we haven't even mentioned Anthony Davis yet. The reason the Lakers are VP candidate, league MVP without question. And look, this is what you've been calling for for years. You wanted AD to bring it every night. You wanted AD to show vision offensively. You wanted him to, to play like an MVP. The dude is averaging 30 and 10.
- [06:46]
Stephen A. Smith
Yes, he is.
- [06:47]
Brian Windhorst
And he's bringing it every night. And that's the, I mean the ancillary pieces are what make the Lakers go from like a sixth or seventh place team to a third place team. But I think none of it matters unless you got AD playing this way. AD playing this way is a difference making entity in the NBA right now.
- [07:03]
Stephen A. Smith
You know, I look at that. You're absolutely right. Right now he is arguably the leading candidate for league MVP because he's been that sensational. Can't take anything away from him. As we scour the West. Before I go to the Eastern Conference, Dallas is the reigning Western Conference champions. They've got Klay Thompson, but they've, they've been up and down, up and down. We know that Oklahoma City, I'm not worried about them, Wendy, because they were playing without Chet Holmgren, obviously and Isaiah Hartstein. He's not there because he got injured before the season even began with those two there. I think that Oklahoma City is going to be a monster to beat. The other team I'm looking at is Phoenix because Kevin Durant has been out. When he was there, they were looking good. We'll see what we get from them. I guess the question for me is the Golden State warriors because they're right up there right now. They've gotten off to a strong start. Just ignored a blowout loss to Cleveland when they were down by 40 in the first half. But nevertheless, once again, Draymond Green is a story because of him holding onto the leg of rookie Zach Edie. Obviously their coach, Dylan Jenkins had a problem with that. Draymond spoke out against him, accusing him of being too emotional. What are we to make of this latest incident with Draymond Green?
- [08:10]
Brian Windhorst
Draymond Green is an amazing character. Stephen A. I actually am looking forward to the day when Draymond is in the media. I would love. I can't wait to do a show and a panel with Draymond. I would love for the three of us, let's do it on first take. Like let's set it up because he is so smart, he is so fascinating. I so much enjoy his viewpoint of the game and he's willing to be so honest. And then when it Comes to his own weaknesses like this, he's just not honest. It's. It's kind of crazy. I guess it's sort of the athlete thing. The guy is absolutely a difference making player. His intelligence, and not only that, you look at the condition that he is in. Yes, he has extended his career because he's in so much better shape than he was seven, eight years ago.
- [08:55]
Stephen A. Smith
He's a future hall of Famer. He's a future hall of Famer without question.
- [08:58]
Brian Windhorst
Without question, without question. And. And he's really a testament to somebody who can, you know, he wasn't gifted with, great at, with, with, with. You know, he wasn't gifted with like the body of so many other players. He's had to work to make his body this way, and he's done it. There's so many things about Draymond that are amazing, but he's got this long litany of losing his mind and making dirty plays. And this is it. This is a dirty play. This is a dirty play. However you want to rack it up. He's got so many of these moments in his career, and in so many of these moments, he defends it. And in many of these cases, his team defends it. Like, I'll point out, the night that he choked Rudy Gobert, the Warriors defended him. Now after 24 hours, they got their senses and realized that wasn't what they needed to do. But like, this is why I can't wait to be on his. On a set with Draymond Stephen A. Because I think it's potentially tremendous conversation without question. And I think he playing with, I think being his teammate is kind of like that, like 90 some percent of the time it's going to be amazing. And 5% of the time, things are going to get wild and could get uncomfortable.
- [10:02]
Stephen A. Smith
Well, here's the deal. He admits he cost them a championship in 2016 because he got suspended after Adam Silva gave them that stimulus package gave LeBron. And that stimulus package suspended Draymond Green because they would have won him. They would have beat him. They would have beat him in five because they had gone up three, one in that game. And that game four was in Cleveland. They were going back to the Oracle for game five. They'd have closed them out then, but they suspended him. And then Iguodala and Boga got hurt in the same game. And then they went seven games and LeBron James won the championship. Don't get me started with that. But also, one could easily argue that last year he coursed a golden State Warriors a playoff berth. They're 28 and 15 with them, fifth best record in the league. Okay, but they are game under five, three games under 500 without him, he cost them a playoff berth. So now I'm looking at it. The other day, I thought the flag, the upgrade to flagrant one was the right call. I thought he could have easily been ejected from that game. That would have been the right call. But I didn't go as far as Kendrick Perkins did, where he said that Draymond should have been suspended for several games. Wendy, how you feel about that?
- [11:00]
Brian Windhorst
No, I don't think so. I think if he had been called for a flagrant two in that game, it would have been upheld on review. So he didn't get called for, you know, he didn't get called for a flagrant at all. They upgraded it to a flagrant one, as you said, the next day. Let's just put it that way. If the referee had seen the low angle, which we've all, We've all seen, where he, he pinches his leg and trips him up, the referee would have called a flagrant, too. And let's put it this way, if they went to Secaucus in the replay center, they wouldn't have overturned that referee didn't make that call. They kind of got lucky. Draymond can say whatever he wants, but as, as authentic and as appreciative as I am of his intelligence and how loquacious he is when he talks about the game. And I appreciate so much his willingness as an active player to discuss games that he's playing in at. In real time, which I think is unique. You know, he just has a blind spot when he talks about his own dirty plays. He, he, he, he. He can't come to a, a point where he can say, I, this was a dirty play. This is a dirty play. And, and, you know, is it suspension worthy? No. Is it in the top five of his dirty plays all time? No. It was still a dirty play. Gotcha. But the warriors are in the middle of a grand experiment right now, Stephen a. They're playing 12 or 13 guys, and they've had some injuries, so sometimes it's, you know, a little bit less. They believe that they can play this way and win at the highest level. We've never seen a team play this way and win at the highest level. I always go with the Pat Riley line. I don't know if he stole it from somebo else, but Pat Riley famously said to me, when the games matter, you play eight and trust seven. And frankly, when they really, really matter, sometimes you play seven and trust five, sometimes you trust four. And so they're. What they're betting on is that they can play this huge lineup with high intensity and it can work. Or do they get to January and say, you know, we're good but not great. Do we need to cash in some of these players? And that's what things were, one of the big things we're watching in the NBA right now.
- [12:53]
Stephen A. Smith
Well, Wendy, I'm going to let you get off the hook because I got a few other questions to get to and we're running out of time. But I want to let you know I'm not going to let you get away with it. For future references where we're going to talk with one another, how you're pouring out, how Steve Kerr is managing to play 12 or 13 guys but couldn't play more than 10 in the Olympics. I'm gonna let that slide right now.
- [13:11]
Brian Windhorst
I'm let it slide that the NBA is not the Olympics. I understand that.
- [13:15]
Stephen A. Smith
It's 40. It's eight more minutes. It's eight more minutes, man. Don't you, don't you get me started with that.
- [13:18]
Brian Windhorst
And it's single elimination.
- [13:20]
Stephen A. Smith
I know it's single elimination. There you go. I knew you would say that. I knew you would say that. But I'm gonna let it go because I got to transfer to the Eastern Conference because Joel Embiid is making news. Joel Embiid obviously took hits, had a local columnist in Philadelphia, Marcus Hayes of the Philadelphia Inquirer. I thought he crossed the line when he brought up his deceased brother and obviously his son to make a point about a critique he was throwing in Joel Embiid's direction. I thought that was crossing the line. But in the same breath that I called Marcus Hayes out for that, I also acknowledge that as a columnist. Take that aside and everything else he had said about Joel Embiid is in bounds, whether you agree or disagree. As a columnist, he has the license to editorialize an opon and give his opinion. And that was his opinion. I think he was buffered today to some degree or last night rather, when news came out by Shams Sharania. I knew NBA insider extraordinaire that Tyrese Maxey, during a team meeting called out Joel Embiid for his tardiness and how it was affecting the team. When you saw that story, what were your, what was your reaction? What were your thoughts?
- [14:24]
Brian Windhorst
I saw a team that absolutely surrendered in back to back second half. They had played in Orlando. Orlando had been hot. Or as we talk about this right now, the Orlando's on a six game win streak. They were up by 10 in that game and they totally surrendered in the second half. They were up by 19 on Miami and they surrendered in the second half. They got scored by 30 over the last two and a half quarters. When I see a team surrender like that, I do think there's an issue with the spirit and there needs to be a discussion. So the fact that a team meeting I think was appropriate. Whatever gets said in that team meeting, you know, if it's, you know, things that we're not going to see like a player showing up late for something and holding each other accountable, I think that's good. But I don't think it goes to the heart of the matter. The heart of the matter is that Joel Embiid doesn't look good on the court at all. He looks terrible. And it's not just him, by the way, Paul George is having a poor start to the season coming off that knee injury he had. Kyle Lowry isn't playing very well. Andre Drummond, who they really thought was going to be like a buffer for when indeed couldn't play, he hasn't played very well. Eric Gordon has shot some of the worst of his career. And other free agents they brought in. It's not just Embiid, but Embiid's the biggest defender. And Stephen A. This is one of the big things. Joel Embiid played limited minutes in the, in the, in the Olympics, but he looked good. There were times where his matchup wasn't that great, but he was a contributor to the Team USA winning the gold medal. And that was in mid August. And then in mid September, the 76ers gave him a 3 or $190 million contract. If there was an injury that happened in there, they don't give him the contract. I don't think at least a major injury. And then all of a sudden you look at the guy and he can't move. Yeah, like to me, like all everything else is secondary. The fact that he can't move. Last year when Joel Embiid got the ball in the triple threat position, dribble pass or shoot, you were in big time trouble because he could make that shot. He could put the ball on the court and get to the foul line or get to the basket and he could distribute. The guy was averaging more points than minutes played. It was first time since Wilt Chamberlain anybody did that. Right now he can't even get to the foul line. No. No free throws for the second time in his career the other night. So whatever Maxi and other people are doing to keep him accountable, that's all I think healthy, and I think it happens with almost all teams. The health thing is what we're really talking about.
- [16:38]
Stephen A. Smith
And I got to tell you this why I've completely removed the 76ers from the mix. And it's not just because they're 2 and 11. It's because of what you said. And here's why I say this to you. When we look at the Boston Celtics, the reigning defending NBA champions, they're playing without Porzingis, and they're the second best team in the Eastern Conference.
- [16:54]
Brian Windhorst
Why?
- [16:55]
Stephen A. Smith
Because they got two stars that are young thoroughbreds, 28 and 20 and soon to be 27 years of age, respectively. And Jaylen Brown and Jason Tatum. You look at the Cleveland Cavaliers, who were undefeated at 15 and oh coming into last night's game, you got Mobley, you got Jarrett Allen, you got Darius Garland, you got Donovan Mitchell. Donovan Mitchell is like a senior citizen on the squad compared to most of the roster. So you got young cats who know how to move and run. How do you offset what a Joel Embiid or Paul George, at their best, could potentially run at you? By moving, running, and having fresh young legs.
- [17:32]
Brian Windhorst
Yeah, and that's the thing. Like, if you're looking at a team like Milwaukee, who's struggling, you're looking at a team like Philly, who's struggling. The big difference is that Giannis is balling. Giannis is averaging 31 12. And so you say, well, okay, if they, if they're. They're supporting cast picks up or whatever, you've got the best player playing at MVP level. If Joel ain't playing at MVP level, the rest of the supporting cast doesn't matter.
- [17:55]
Stephen A. Smith
With that being said, how legitimate of a threat do you believe the Cleveland Cavaliers are? Kendrick Kirk has had that as a top two team in the NBA. I think that's going a bit too far, but they are up there.
- [18:06]
Brian Windhorst
I saw what he said on first take and I almost thought he misspoke. I saw Perk later in the day. I said, hey, did you. Did you mean what you said exactly that? He goes, no, I said what I said. So I think the Cavs actually had a really impressive performance in Boston. They were missing four players. Three of them were key defensive perimeter players. Boston had their best three point shooting half in the first half in 25 years. The Cavs obviously had trouble with. With what Boston was doing defensively, and there's going to be some things that they're going to learn from that. The Cavs were on the road and the game came down to the last minute. I think if you, if this had been a Game 1 of a playoff series and the series was over, you would come out of this saying, this is going to be a long series. And so I say they play again December 1st. They could play again in the NBA Cup. They play two more times on the schedule after that, and we could see him playing in the spring. And while I would favor Boston to win, I think it would be a long series. And you know, in a long series, anything can happen.
- [19:03]
Stephen A. Smith
When I look at Cleveland also, I got to tell you what something else that's on my mind. Just a couple of questions before I let you get on out of here. Number one, even though it might be a bit presumptuous because he did depart from Brooklyn, go to the Golden State warriors as assistant coach, obviously learned a lot under Steve Kerr before coming and taking this head coaching job in Cleveland. Kenny Atkinson's performance as head coach in Cleveland, there's a clear discrepancy between him and JB Bickerstaff from last year. There is no doubt about that. And also it has me fantasizing to some degree or reflecting on what would the Brooklyn Nets, with Kevin Durant healthy and Kyrie Irvin healthy, have been with Kenny Atkinson as their coach instead of Steve Nash, who now had no head coaching experience whatsoever. Do you find yourself thinking about that?
- [19:51]
Brian Windhorst
I hadn't until now. But you know, the James Harden, Kevin Durant, Kyrie Irving failure is what I have called a basketball tragedy. It's not a real life tragedy. It's not life and death. But from a basketball standpoint, those three guys getting together on the same team in one of the major markets should have produced championships, multiple at least one. And the fact that not only did they not, but they were largely a failure because they couldn't even play together or get along or whatever is a basketball tragedy. And when you add that layer to it, it certainly adds to that.
- [20:30]
Stephen A. Smith
My New York Knicks, I saved them for last. What am I to make of them now that I'm seeing Cleveland looking the way it's looking and knowing who Boston is? And that's without Porzingis knowing he's coming back before the playoffs?
- [20:41]
Brian Windhorst
I think the Knicks were always destined to have their best shot at this in the 2526 season because they hollowed out their team to put these guys on it. And they just need to build out some support players. Obviously they need more depth at big man. They need to rely less on Karl Towns as their five man and that'll help with Mitchell Robinson. But they also need more ball handlers. You know, when, when, when they, when they've done that trade, they took the ball handlers away and now Jalen Brunson has to work a lot harder. You know, when you talk to scouts, they'll say Jalen Brunson is playing the same number of minutes, but he looks more tired at the end of the game. It's because he's got to do all the ball handling and they're pressuring him full court. They're trying to tire him out. They need some more supporting players. That said, I think they're going to be right there at the end. I think they'll be a top four seed. They've got a top five offense in the league, which is what they wanted when they made this town straight. Their defense isn't where it needs to be. So I say give them two transaction cycles, give them the trade deadline and give them next summer and see where they are next year. By the way, I'm not sure the Celtics can keep this team together. I'm not sure the Cavs can keep this team together. I'm not sure what's going to happen in Milwaukee. I'm not sure what's going to happen in Philly. New York's got all their star players locked in, so it's a window. It's not just in 20, 24, 25, you know, you know, make sure you, you know, respect the window.
- [22:00]
Stephen A. Smith
They've got no regrets whatsoever with the Knicks giving up five first round pick from Bridges or giving up both Randall and Divincenzo for call Anthony Towns.
- [22:08]
Brian Windhorst
Here's my view on the Bridges trade. You can't look at the Bridges trade as just a Bridges trade. You have to look at it as the Bridges trade and the fact that Jalen Brunson signed a contract that was nine figures below what he could have gotten. And if you look at the Bridges trade brought Jalen Brunson to do that agreement, it has a totally different view on it.
- [22:27]
Stephen A. Smith
That's true.
- [22:28]
Brian Windhorst
And the Towns trade was a risk, but in all honesty, I'm not so sure they could have gotten a better player for Julius Randle. Maybe they could have gotten players that fit better and contributed better to now, but in terms of overall talent, I think they did well. They just need to build out their roster more.
- [22:45]
Stephen A. Smith
Brian wenthos always appreciate you, brother. I know you got work to do with NBA today and beyond. Keep up the great work, man. We talking to you soon.
- [22:51]
Brian Windhorst
Have a great day.
- [22:51]
Stephen A. Smith
See you soon. Wow. My Knicks. My Knicks. I'm gonna try to hang on there. Ladies and gentlemen, that last part that he talked about how you can't look at bridges in just the five picks, look at the fact that it provoked Jaylah Brunson to take nine figures less than what he could have demanded. That means you could have some money down the line to spend other places to build those supplementary parks so the Knicks can finally win a championship. Because that's the way I'm interested in. That's what I'm interested in. Just to be clear. Just to be clear.
- [23:26]
Nate Thompson
Foreign.
- [23:30]
Greg Rosenthal
What'S up, everyone? It's Greg Rosenthal and I'm teaming up with the King of Spring, Daniel Jeremiah. He requires me to say that we're going to be bringing you 40s and free agents, the only podcast you'll need this NFL draft season. From DJs mock drafts to my top 101, free agents will have it covered for you with all new episodes every Thursday, keeping you up to date as we head to the NFL Draft. Listen to 40s and free agents starting on March 6th on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [24:01]
Julie Swerbinks
What's up, everyone? Julie Swerbinks here, along with former NHL player Nate Thompson.
- [24:05]
Nate Thompson
We're doing a new podcast together. Here we go.
- [24:08]
Julie Swerbinks
The name Energy Line with Nate and jsb.
- [24:11]
Nate Thompson
Each week we'll get together and talk about hockey life. All topics are fair game, right?
- [24:17]
Julie Swerbinks
Exactly. And you'll never know who will drop by to join us.
- [24:20]
Nate Thompson
Julie is pretty well connected. She has text threads going that you wouldn't believe.
- [24:25]
Julie Swerbinks
Listen to Energy Line with Nate and jsb on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.