← The Stephen A. Smith Show
The Stephen A. Smith Show
Interview Only: Fight Freaks Unite publisher Dan Rafael talks Canelo backing out of Jake Paul fight.
00:16:26
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- [00:00]
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- [00:29]
Greg Rosenthal
What's up everyone? It's Greg Rosenthal and I'm teaming up with the King of Spring, Daniel Jeremiah. He requires me to say that we're going to be bringing you 40s and free agents, the only podcast you'll need this NFL draft season. From DJs mock drafts to my top 101, free agents will have it covered for you with all new episodes every Thursday keeping you up to date as we head to the NFL Draft. Listen to 40s and free agents starting on March 6th on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [01:03]
Stephen A. Smith
Joining me now to discuss this is a man who's written about an opond on the sport of boxing for both ESPN and USA Today Today. He's the founder, the owner, the publisher of. What was it? Fight Freaks? Is that what it is?
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Dan Rayfield
Dude? Fight Freaks unite on Substack. Stephen A.
- [01:19]
Stephen A. Smith
Please gotta let the audience know that the one and only Dan Rayfield. What's going on, buddy? How you doing?
- [01:23]
Dan Rayfield
Great to be on with you. I kind of figured when this topic emerged we might be discussing it.
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Stephen A. Smith
Absolutely. I wanted to know your thoughts. When you saw Jake Paul going off, showed the contract with the signatures on it, even though he did that relatively quickly, by the way, I didn't get the chance to really, really see it. Nevertheless, that's what he said. He's implicating that Canelo Alvarez signed to fight him. It was supposed to happen. They were supposed to announce it February 11, but it did not end up happening. Your thoughts, your reaction to what you saw from Jake Paul?
- [01:53]
Dan Rayfield
Well, Jake is upset, obviously. But if you take a look closely at the document that he supposedly signed, that's supposedly the fight contract. If you take a look at it closely, Stephen A. What it was was a confidential, a confidentiality agreement. It wasn't a doubt agreement. It wasn't a let's sign for the fight. This was here's what we're working on. And then they take that so they can let the people that they're trying to sell the fight to know that they've got both sides on board. So that was maybe a little fast and loose with the truth. But the reality is Jake Paul wanted to fight Canelo Alvarez. And I don't think that Canelo was really, truly that interested in the bout. That's been his sort of thing he's been saying all along. But I think what he did was he used Jake Paul and the people at his company MVP to raise the price that he was going to get from Turkey, Al Sheik from Saudi Arabia to do real fights, to do other title defenses, to do the fight with Terence Crawford. And that was used to sort of jack up the price. And if he didn't get the price, yeah, maybe he would have gone through with it. But Jake Paul felt that he was going to and feels like he was aggrieved because Canelo has gone and done a four fight deal with Turkey Alchemic to bring his, his talents to Saudi Arabia for three of those fights.
- [02:59]
Stephen A. Smith
That sounds like the latest dealings in the world of boxing as far as I'm concerned. That's how business goes from time to time. I can understand why Jake Paul is a bit upset, but Canelo Alvarez is a four division. He's a, you know, listen, four different weight classes. This man is one of the greatest in the game, arguably one of the greatest ever in a lot of people's eyes. And to me, him fighting Jake Paul would have made no sense whatsoever for him outside of just money. Because Jake Paul, as much as I respect him and what he's trying to do, hasn't earned the right to be in the ring with Canelo Alvarez as far as I'm concerned. How do you see that, Dan?
- [03:35]
Dan Rayfield
Yeah, I don't disagree with that, but I think at the end of the day, Canelo Alvarez has secured a certain aspect of his legacy. I don't think there's a lot more left for him to do in terms of the legacy that you mentioned. And so in terms of the overall reason to do the fight with Jake Paul, it is about the money. He's trying to put as much money in the bank before now, you know, now in the end of his career, Jake Paul's doing the same thing. And they would have both made tremendous amounts of money for this. But Jake Paul is, I, I respect him also. I enjoy Jake's events, interviewed him about his events, and I have nothing but respect for what he's doing in terms of trying to make himself a better boxer. But it's not at the championship level boxing that Canelo Alvarez has been at for the last more than a decade, decade plus decade and a half. And so to think about him going in the ring with Jake Paul, whose only advantage is his size. You know, obviously most people would look at Canelo Alvarez and say, look, you can get him out of there easy. Now, at least in these fights he's going to be fighting actual championship level boxers, maybe not superstars. Like his first fight of this deal is against a very unknown fighter named William Scull, who picked up the vacant IBF belt that Canelo was forced to, that was stripped of him because he didn't fight the mandatory William Scull. It was totally unknown and brought nothing to the table. Now he's going to fight him, but he's still an actual professional fighter with real fights in his own weight class. So I get where Canelo is coming from and I get where Jake Paul is coming from.
- [04:52]
Stephen A. Smith
Let's go to, let's go to Canelo for a second. I'll get back to Jake Paul in a minute, but let's go to Canelo for a second. I mean, I don't like, I don't root against him. I respect the hell out of him. I've interviewed him on a couple of occasions. I know what a great fighter he is. I know what he brings to the table. I've seen him against Triple G, obviously against Mayweather, obviously against Charlo and others. We get that he's proven himself. Okay. The flip side to it, however, is that there's a guy by the name of David Benavidez out there, the Mexican monster that's got to move up to light heavyweight because Canelo won't give this guy a fight. As a, as a, as an expert of the pugilistic sport that is boxing. Knowing what you know, how do you feel about Canelo avoiding David Benavidez? And how foreign, foreign is it for him to be avoiding David Benavidez?
- [05:43]
Dan Rayfield
I mean, being truthful, and I'm known as a Canelo guy, Stephen A. But it's disappointing because that's the fight, that's the real fight that fans, I think want to see. It's not like there's not other fights they'd be interested. And sure, a Terence Crawford fight will interest a lot of people in the mainstream because of all the history that goes with it and, and where both those guys are in the sport. But Benavides has earned the opportunity. He clearly is a top level fighter, whether it's in the super middleweight division or the light heavyweight division. He's now fighting in the light heavyweight division, has Made it very clear that where his body is now, after having now had two light heavyweight fights, a really outstanding performance a couple weeks ago against David Morell, that he's not about to drop back down to 168. So if Canelo will ever agree to fight him, it's going to have to be in the light heavyweight division, where Canelo, by the way, has had two fights in the past, a spectacular knockout to win a world title against Sergey Kovalev, and he got outboxed by Dimitri Beo, a much different style than Benavides. So I think that Canelo realizes, look, he's. I won't say he's playing out the string, but he's making more moves that are going to benefit his bank account than perhaps to give him another loss on his record. Taking on William Scull is not a big gamble, even, frankly, taking on Terence Crawford, who's a great fighter, his own, right, but the weight disparity is so great, right, that I don't think that he and his team think it's that great of a risk. And then there's two other fights on this deal which I don't even think are named in the contract or in the agreement, and he'll be able to sort of pick and choose. So he may be able to run the table on the four fights. But David Benavides poses a massive threat. He knows it. You know it, I know it. Anybody who watches boxing knows it.
- [07:14]
Stephen A. Smith
How are we to feel about Canelo Alvarez fighting people other than David Benavidez when there's smaller fighters? Like, for example, when he fought Charlo, clearly he had to move up two weight classes to fight Canelo. We knew he didn't have the power to really fend off, you know, Canelo. I was proud that he survived, for crying out loud. When I look at Terence Crawford, I think Terence Crawford is a marvelous boxer, arguably the best in the world, pound for pound. But can you hurt Canelo? If you can't hurt, I have no doubt he could outbox him. My issue is, if you can't hurt him, what kind of a challenge could you truly, truly pose? What do you say to that?
- [07:54]
Dan Rayfield
No, that's. Listen, that's a great point. I mean, here's the thing. Canelo Alvarez has a historically great chin. Now, I go back, way back, when he first came to the United States and started boxing. And he found himself on an HBO Pay per View undercard years and years ago, fighting against the older brother of the great Miguel Cotto. His name was Jose Miguel Cotto. And he had gotten a ton of hype. He had signed with Golden Boy Promotions and a lot of those of us in the media. And I had seen him a couple of times before that. This is my first time seeing him in person, really paying close attention. And he almost got knocked out in the first round. And I remember Stephen A, all of us looking around at media row going, what the heck is this all hype about? This man can't take a shot. He's going to get drilled. He was lucky that the fight was over, you know, that the round was over in round one or there might have been some much more trouble. Stephen A. That was like, I don't know, 16, 17 years ago. I've never seen him wobbled. Rock physically visibly hurt since then. He has an all time great chin going in the ring with tremendous punches. Kovalev 2 fights with Gennady Golovkin and plenty of other fighters. So, you know, he, he has the great chin. And like you mentioned, can Terence Crawford coming up two weight classes do any damage? Yeah, he's a slick boxer and he's also a good puncher in the welterweight division, in the junior welterweight division, in the lightweight division. But even at junior middleweight, which is where Terence Crawford had his most recent fight back in August, when he moved up and he won a world title, he didn't blow the doors off. He fought a very tough, solid opponent named Israel Majimov. He gave him a good fight. It was very close. Magimov's people seem to think he might have even been able to edge it out. But if you can't hurt an Israel Magimov at 154, what the heck are you gonna do with Canelo Alvarez, the sturdiest guy in the world at 168. So that aspect of it is certainly a problem. You mentioned about Charlo. Charlotte was there to get his check. I know one thing about Terence Crawford. He's not going to just come to turn up to get the check. He'll at least try. And Charlo I don't think really tried. There's a difference in mindset between Charlo and Terence Crawford.
- [09:43]
Stephen A. Smith
Yeah. You and I have a slight difference opinion about the Charlotte thing. I think that Charlotte Charlo hit this man with a shot in the first or the second round. And Canelo just walked right through him and he said, oh, my God, I cannot hurt this guy. I need to run for my life for the next ten rounds to survive. That's what I saw. But I hear you loud and clear. Back to David Benavidez. Since you brought his name up, he wanted to fight against Morell. I walked away more impressed with Morell than I thought I would be because the kids got, he could take a punch. He could really, really take a punch. And I was very surprised by that. And I was surprised that with the shots that David Benavidez was hitting him with that he couldn't take him down. And then I said to myself, what if he goes against and it's not Bavol, it's Better bf? I, I, I'm a little bit worried about that for David Benavidez. What about you?
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Dan Rayfield
David Morell may not have been well known to the masses, but certainly within boxing he's well known. He was a great amateur coming out of Cuba and he has accomplishments. So don't be fooled by what the record was 11, 0 going into the bout against Benavides. He's a really serious quality fighter and that was a really, you know, matchup that a lot of people were excited for. And so I wasn't surprised that David Morrell, you know, gave him a good fight. I mean, I picked David Benavides to win the fight for a lot of different reasons. But you talk about the, the possibility of, of David Benavides facing off against the winner. There's, there's the rematch for the undisputed title that takes place on February 22nd between Arthur Better BF, who is the undisputed champ, and Dimitri Beavel, who they fought at the end of last year. And it was a very close fight and that was to unify the division. Turkey Alik, who runs the show with Saudi Arabians involvement in boxing with Riyadh season. He said he loved to see the winner of that fight fight against David Benavides. Now, if there is a fact that Bevo wins the rematch, he's also said maybe there'll be a trilogy fight, but if Better Bev is the winner and they also, he invited David Benavides to come to the ringside and to check it out on February 22nd. I think that's got a really interesting and good possibility to happen. That would be a huge fight for David. I would hope they would do that fight in the United States. That's where David's got a lot of fans that would do probably quite a bit more in terms of popularity, viewership, pay per view, etc, than if it was taking place in Riyadh. But you know, we're going to see the, the best fight, the best if they can make that match and David's up for it. I mean, he'll fight, you know, David Benavides, he's never turned anybody down. He'll fight whoever. And he's on a really good run right now. Andre and Caleb Plant, and then of course, what he did against Vodzik when he moved up, and then this fight just a couple of weeks ago in David Morell. He's not. He's not looking to duck anybody.
- [12:17]
Stephen A. Smith
Let me get back to Jake Paul before I let you get on out of here. I really appreciate your time, Dan. Jake Paul, listen, I respect him because he's his own promoter. He shows that you don't have to be at the mercy of promoters to make a fight happen. And I really applaud what he's doing for the sport of boxing in that regard. But as I've told him to his face, I'm not being a hypocrite here. You got to fight fighters, and Mike Tyson at 58 years of age ain't cutting it no more. UFC strikers or basketball players, that ain't cutting it. You got to get in the ring with some boxes. So while I listen, Canelo used them probably to up the ante, to up the price on the back end. And I get that part. The flip side to it is if you're Canelo Alvarez, why should you allow somebody to get in the ring with you who hasn't really fought any contenders in the sport of boxing? To me, that's what Jake Paul has to do. So I understand his outburst, which was the reason I had you on. But in the same breath, I'm of the mindset you kind of brought this on yourself because you're trying to get a shot at the crown without working through the process and fighting guys that are at least contenders to that, you say what?
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Dan Rayfield
Well, I think part of it's because Jake knows that his events are big events. Regardless of that. It's not like he's not working hard. He's not really cutting the line because if other people didn't want to watch his events, he wouldn't be in that position because he's got the certain popularity and he brought in. I mean, you looked at the Tyson fight that he had on Netflix. They did gargantuan numbers, brought up all kinds of subscriptions. That was the plan. So he has that in his back pocket. He brings money and he brings notoriety and a lot of eyeballs to his events. Whether you think he's put in enough work in the gym to make himself into a quote unquote, real fighter. Now, if you step back, prior to The Tyson fight, you know, he did have, dude, the one fight against the BKFC fighter in Mike Perry, but that was because Tyson was dealing with his, his, his illness and they had to postpone the fight. But prior to that fight, he actually did take a step back. I was sort of happy about this. He fought like actual boxers, not, not big names, but guys that maybe had quality amateur backgrounds that were of around the same level of professional experience as him. As he said to me in some interviews, I'm trying to build up myself as a fighter to get the reps in, to get in the experience. Here's the problem. Those fights did not do big business. So he's kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place. He can fight those developmental fights, but nobody gives a dart about him and they don't bring in the kind of money. So he's going to be fighting these bigger names, whether it's MMA guys or boxers who maybe are past their best or try to lure a Canelo in who maybe is smaller because that's where the money is and the fans flock to it. How could you take a guy who's fighting Iron Mike Tyson and does gazillions of viewers on Netflix and say, well, now you should step back and fight a guy in an eight rounder that nobody ever heard of. I understand the predicament he's in.
- [15:21]
Stephen A. Smith
I definitely respect that. And I appreciate that perspective as well, because that makes sense. This is the money business. You're trying to make as much money as you possibly can.
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Dan Rayfield
Prize fighting. STEPHEN A. It's prize fighting.
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Stephen A. Smith
It's prize fighting, no doubt about it. But last thing, I'll say this much, because I get where he's coming from. So where does he go from here? Because my mentality is, okay, you want to make the money, you definitely want to do that. You don't want to do things. And I applaud Jake Paul, by the way, because he promotes the hell out of his fights. He shows up, he honors his commitments. He's more professional than a lot of the professionals in that regard. I give him a lot of credit for that. But what are we to make of his future now that he said what he says? Particularly when he says, I promise you I will generate more money. My events will be bigger than Canelo Alvarez. I'm not so sure about that. Dan Rayfield, to that you say what?
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Dan Rayfield
Yeah, I mean, look, he's already played the Tyson card that that happened and it was huge. Canelo obviously is not happening. That would have been big. Whether people Loved it or not, there would have been a massive amount of people, for perverse reasons perhaps, interested in it. And so now you say, who else can he fight? He's fought all kinds of former MMA or, you know, MMA guys cross over to boxing. I just don't know the answer. I mean, he. Is there another famous boxer that's looking to come out of retirement to fight him? That would actually move the needle, you know, I don't know about that. I mean, was he gonna get Oscar De La Hoy to come out of retirement? I mean, or Floyd Mayweather? I doubt that. So the one. The one name that's out there, then he's brought it up. And I mean, it would be a big event. I would personally not like to see it. He's talked about Conor McGregor. I mean.
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Stephen A. Smith
Oh, Lord.
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Dan Rayfield
I'm just saying. I mean, that's where we're at here, Stephen. A. What can I tell you?
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Stephen A. Smith
I mean, that, that. I mean, come on, man. I mean, they. I will say this. Nobody would eclipse them promotionally. That I will admit. Nobody would. Would eclipse them promotionally. But outside of that, when it gets down to the bare bones of a real fight. Nah, I'm not feeling that. Not at all. Dan Ray. Dan Rayfield. Obviously fight freaks. You not appreciate you, buddy. Thank you so much, man.
- [17:16]
Dan Rayfield
You bet, Stephen. Anytime.
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Stephen A. Smith
All right.
- [17:25]
Greg Rosenthal
What'S up, everyone? It's Greg Rosenthal, and I'm teaming up with the King of Spring, Daniel Jeremiah. He requires me to say that we're going to be bringing you 40s and free agents, the only podcast you'll need this NFL draft season season. From DJs, mock drafts to my top 101, free agents will have it covered for you with all new episodes every Thursday keeping you up to date as we head to the NFL Draft. Listen to 40s and free agents starting on March 6th on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.
- [17:56]
Julie Swearingen
What's up, everyone? Julie Swearbinks here along with former NHL player Nate Thompson.
- [18:01]
Dan Rayfield
We're doing a new podcast together. Here we go.
- [18:03]
Julie Swearingen
The name Energy Line with Nate and jsb.
- [18:06]
Dan Rayfield
Each week we'll get together and talk about hockey life. All topics are fair game, right?
- [18:12]
Julie Swearingen
Exactly. And you'll never know who will drop by to join us.
- [18:16]
Dan Rayfield
Julie is pretty well connected. She has text threads going that you wouldn't believe.
- [18:20]
Julie Swearingen
Listen to Energy Line with Nate and jsb on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.