← Straight Shooter with Stephen A.
Straight Shooter with Stephen A.
Interview Only: Former Bad Boy Rapper Moses “Shyne” Barrow discusses relationship with Diddy, jail time and rising political career in Belize.
00:27:43
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- [00:00]
Greg Rosenthal
Are you still quoting 30 year old movies? Have you said cool beans in the past 90 days? Do you think Discover isn't widely accepted? If this sounds like you, you're stuck in the past. Discover is accepted at 99% of places that take credit cards nationwide and every time you make a purchase with your card, you automatically earn cash back. Welcome to the now it pays to Discover. Learn more@discover.com credit card based on the February 2024 Nielsen report. What's up everyone? It's Greg Rosenthal and I'm teaming up with the King of Spring, Daniel Jeremiah. He requires me to say that we're going to be bringing you 40s and free agents, the only podcast you'll need this NFL draft season. From DJs mock drafts to my top 101, free agents will have it covered for you with all new episodes every Thursday keeping you up to date as we head to the NFL Draft. Listen to 40s and free agents starting on March 6th on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.
- [01:03]
Stephen A. Smith
My next guest was a rising hip hop star in the late 90s with a distinctive style. Signed the Bad Boy Records. His career was cut short when he was convicted in the 1999 high profile shooting at Club New York with Sean Puffy Combs. After serving almost nine years in prison, he he's back with a compelling Hulu documentary called the Honorable Shine, which details his compelling journey from prison to politics. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome to the Stephen A. Smith Show, Moses Shine Barrow. What's going on? Big time. How are you, man? How's everything?
- [01:39]
Moses Shine Barrow
I'm fine. I try to bring some of that warm weather with me from Belize to the Disney studios here in New York, but it's not really working out. Other than that I'm managing remembering my days in Brooklyn where I was prepared for this rigid weather. But I'm happy to be here with with a legend such as yourself.
- [01:57]
Stephen A. Smith
I was getting ready to say stop lying to the American public. You know, you had no chance in hell of bringing that warm weather to New York City. Ain't never been here. You know, it ain't coming to Brooklyn, you know, not the weather in New York, especially this time of year. You know that ain't coming, right?
- [02:11]
Moses Shine Barrow
I tried, man. Listen, last week, the weather was incredible. The weather was incredible, like in the 60s.
- [02:18]
Stephen A. Smith
I. I feel you. I feel you. Look, man, let me get right into it with you. First of all, I'm proud of you. You not only are you a politician, you look like a politician did you ever in your wildest dreams believe you'd be sitting here today as a politician talking to me and anybody else for that matter?
- [02:37]
Moses Shine Barrow
Well, you know, I'd like to be specific on the opposition leader of the Belize House of Representatives. So I'm not just a politician of elected representatives, I'm the opposition leader in the House of Representatives, which puts me in line to be the next Prime Minister of Belize. And you know, for me, I always knew that I was going to make an impact because I wanted to make an impact. I wanted to affect lives, I wanted to lead people in the right way. Even as a young kid on the street with a gun in my waist, defending myself and defending my community, everything that I was doing was geared towards a collective betterment. And if you listen to that first Shine album, the very first words that I utter in the intro is, dear America, I'm only what you made me, Young, black and crazy, please save me. So that shows you where my mindset was at speaking in those socio conscious terms, pleading to the system to provide an alternative to the systematic oppression that I as a youth and many other urban youth were facing at the time. And saying, listen, if you would build schools instead of prison, I'll stop living the way I'm living. That's what I was saying at 18 years old. So to fast forward to 46 year old shine, who I've been politically active for the last 10 years, I have an opportunity to be the system and that doesn't always happen. Jay Z helped Obama become president. Beyonce tried to help the vice president, you know, to jump. But it doesn't always work out. You don't always have someone who can go from the spectrum of entertainment to actually the Oval Office or the Prime Minister's office in my case. And so in my work in the last 10 years, it was a smooth transition from singing about all that was wrong with the society I was living in to being the person that can provide solutions for all that is wrong. And I don't think it's a stretch to go from, you know, an entertainer to a politician. Ronald Reagan did it. And I believe that all the musicians I grew up around, you know, we're all community oriented people and, you know, that's what hip hop does. We give back, we get there and we give back. So giving back on a legislative level, to me is just the evolution of hip hop.
- [05:21]
Stephen A. Smith
It is, it is special. No doubt. When you think, when I think about the honorable Sean, I'm thinking about this documentary that is the title of it. And I find myself wondering, I'm guessing, why now? One would easily surmise it's because of what's happened to Sean Diddy Combs. Others will sit up there and look at it and say, it is election time after all. It seems the perfect opportunity for him to come out with something like this. How do you answer that question? Why now? With this, with this documentary.
- [05:52]
Moses Shine Barrow
I have been in and daunted with solicitations to do a documentary for the last 22 years. To be factual. Mark Wahlberg offered me, I think, like a million dollar deal back in 2004. And I, I have that proposal. I could share it with you. I just was always looking for the right partner. I was just looking for the right partner. And it had to make sense fiscally because I'm a true businessman. And it had to be the right partner. And being the right partner was not just a financial commitment. It was a story that we were going to tell. I didn't want to tell the Diddy story. I did not want to tell.
- [06:36]
Stephen A. Smith
Why not?
- [06:37]
Moses Shine Barrow
Because that's not my story. My story is next prime minister of Belize. My story is power. My story is Victor. My story is triumph over tragedy. That's my story.
- [06:50]
Stephen A. Smith
But allow me to interject, Allow me to interject because you emanate from the hip hop community. It is, I, I use this respectfully. It's a rags to riches story. Because I, like you get upset when we're always highlighting, you know, the rags to riches or the rags element of the rag, the riches, riches story. Because everybody, everybody seems like every story is about that, about that. But in your case, it's special because as you highlighted, you're an opposition party leader. You're next in line to be the prime minister. And that is a huge, huge deal. It's one thing to all of a sudden, you know, to go from rags to literally being successful and making money. Well, you did that in the 90s, okay, because you were making millions in the 90s. But to be a politician, to be a leader, to be in line to be the leader of a nation, I mean, that's something entirely different, wouldn't you say?
- [07:42]
Moses Shine Barrow
Yes. And that's the story, unfortunately. I think I should have done a Bio documentary maybe 10 years ago, and this should have been another documentary focused on my political life and the journey from maybe 10 years ago to now. But I just didn't do it. And that's why I said it was timely. But it was all about finding the right partners and people that understood, like when you look at this documentary. It's the first time in my life that I've relinquished creative control in any type of entertainment project. And I had to trust the people that I was working with, you know, and it just doesn't happen like that. And when I found those partners, everything else just happens to be coincidence. You know, two years ago, started shooting, we signed a deal two years ago, we started shooting production maybe a year and a half ago, and all the other things that you see happening. I can't stop the world from, from happening. But, you know, my story was bound to be told. And it's not like we just looked at what was happening and said, oh, come on, let's hurry up and, and tell the Shine story. The Shine story is overdue. And as I said, it was about finding the right partners. And with these partners that I have, Marcus Clark and the Disney people, Hulu landscape, Disney plus. If you look at the documentary, I have no creative control. But the documentary doesn't tell the Diddy story. It's not a gotcha sensational documentary in those terms of trying to exploit his tragedy. It's talking about what I've been through. And obviously we're forever linked. We're forever linked. I can never get away from that. I prefer not to talk about it. I'll be honest with you. When I, when I first saw the documentary, one of my first objections was, why are you focusing so much on the trial? Right. You know, we need to focus more on, on Belize. You know, let's, let's focus more on how I made the album. Let's focus more on the creativity. Let's get more people to talk about what a great musician I was. But unfortunately, a part of the story is that the pain. A part of the story is the sorrow. A part of the story is the defeat, is the devastation. And we just can't escape that.
- [10:00]
Stephen A. Smith
Let me. Because. And when I use this word, educate, I mean respectfully, because obviously your educated brother, you know what you're talking about. I'm talking about from a media perspective. From a media perspective. Let me educate you on this level. You. Nobody did. His story will be told. And no matter what story is going to be told about Diddy, there's a potpourri of things to talk about about him from, for months and years to come. When some folks are talking and when folks are talking to Shine and they're talking about Shine, they want to know about Shine himself from his perspective, what he experienced. So tell us, what exactly did you experience? People are going to go to December 27, 1999. They're going to look at things like that. They want to know what happened to Shine himself. In your words, what happened to you?
- [10:53]
Moses Shine Barrow
Well, you know, in my words, I said so many years ago, back in 2001, that was my first double XL cover. I had about six and the COVID is Death. Before this honor, it was me talking about not snitching on Diddy and not getting him in trouble to get myself out of trouble. I said that, you know, 20 odd years ago. So I've always maintained in every interview I did until recently when I healed and I moved on and I forgave. But for years I was saying, you know, what a creep I thought he was and how he destroyed my life. And at one point I thought he was the devil. But because of the power of Diddy, which is so loud as far as a pop culture icon, nobody listened. So I moved on and I pivoted my life to healing, to forgiveness and to taking accountability for what I can control. And I can't control what someone did to me decades ago. I can't control them not wanting to pay reparations, not wanting to make right, you know, that people say, oh, Diddy gave me millions to go to jail. Nothing. Probably made two what I thought were offensive contributions over the last 20 something years which led to a breakdown in the relations. But I moved on. So. So yes. Was I the sacrificial lamb? Of course. Did I take the fall? Yes. There was no quid pro quo. There was not. Listen, we're going to have $10 million waiting for you when you come out. I'll just do the right thing. I did that on my own, you know, and I've been saying that it's not anything new, but in the documentary, just like in this interview, I can't say to you, Stephen A. I don't want to talk about Diddy. Let's talk about me becoming the prime minister. Let you know I can't talk about only what I want to talk about. I have to be fair and transparent to the audience. But I've been saying the same thing. If you do your research. But listen, he also mentored me in the year or so we spent working together to make one of the greatest hip hop albums ever. I learned a lot as far as being an entrepreneur, as far as being, you know, a disruptor and a trailblazer. And so I got exactly what I went to the University of Bad Boy with Diddy as professor. When it comes to entertainment and even things that I'VE been able to carry with me as far as work ethic, as far, as, you know, manifesting the greatness that you want to achieve. You know, there were some positives, but obviously going to jail for 10 years when that could have been avoided, or someone that, you know, my mom entrusted, you know, her 19 year old son, that they would do right by me, you know, to send me to prison when we could have avoided that, you know, there's nothing we can ever do to change that. And so when I'm telling the story, I can't whitewash that, I can't sanitize that. That's not necessarily the story I want to tell. So I hope that the next documentary, the next movie I do will be about, you know, my rise to become prime minister.
- [14:06]
Stephen A. Smith
When you heard. And I want to move on from this because I want to, I'm, I'm transitioning to who you are. I want to be very, very clear. I'm not going to be unfair to you and just focus on this. I'm transitioning to who you are and where you stand right now, but I'm just trying to paint a picture. When you heard them sentence you to prison for 10 years, could you take us back to that moment and what kind of effect, effect you thought that would have on you at that moment in time?
- [14:37]
Moses Shine Barrow
I was, I was devastated, but I'm such an eternal optimist that I just kept thinking, you know, I'm going to get a bill, I'm going to get a bill. I'm going to get the judge to give me a bill pending appeal, which is what Tupac got. When Tupac had his case, Death Row was able to get him out on bail pending his appeal. And so I just kept living every day with hope that I'd get a bail pending appeal or I'd have a successful appeal and get out. And I never gave up hope. And I was very spiritual. You know, I was a orthodox Jew. Still, I'm still spiritual. I don't, I'm not as observant as I used to be, still rap the fill and still observe Yom Kippur and all the high holidays and Shabbat. But I was always optimistic. But, you know, listen, the first night in prison, I got on my knees and I cried and I said to God, you know, listen, I'm not, I'm not even gonna, not even gonna question you because I didn't question you when I, when I was driving at Bentley last week. I didn't question you when I was driving that Ferrari, I didn't question you living on the 51st floor of the Trump Towers, which is where I was living at the time, this is before, and all that stuff. I didn't question you when I sold a million records going from a poor kid in Belize that didn't even have a toilet system and used to have to take the waste bucket to the canal. I never questioned you how you took me from that to a millionaire at the age of 18 to one of the most popular rappers in America, in the world. I didn't say, well, why me, God? So I'm not going to say, why me, God? Now all I'm going to ask you is to give me the ability to endure this the same way that you gave me the ability to make it through everything. I made it to this point and to accomplish the things that I accomplished. I felt this was my biggest test to date. And the same way God blessed me to be able to not just survive, but to thrive through all of the adversities up to that point. I knew that God would be able to give me the power to get through this. And. And so I did that every day. So I was present every day. I never closed my eyes and tried to get away from what I was facing, because I. I knew, instinctively, I knew that it's just like if you want to win a world championship, whether it's baseball, whether it's football, whether it's basketball, it's grueling. The guys that win the chips are the guys that don't go to the clubs when they're, you know, traveling on the road. It's the guys that are in the arena practicing. You know, it's the guys that don't sleep because they're practicing. It's the guys that go through excruciating training to make sure that they're conditioned to, you know, for the championships. And so for me, I looked at what I was going through as me graduating to the next level, whether I was convincing myself and I was being delusional. It worked because I did graduate, and I am on the next level.
- [18:01]
Stephen A. Smith
When did you begin studying Judaism? That was in prison, correct?
- [18:05]
Moses Shine Barrow
I became spiritual in a monotheistic way before I was incarcerated. So I always believed in monotheism, and that's why I changed my name to Moses, because Moses was always my hero. You know, Moses was a person that was wealthy, powerful, you know, worked with Pharaoh. But Moses had a moral crisis. And because of that moral crisis as what was right and wrong in how you treat human beings, he left all his money, all his power, and he went into the wilderness and he led the Israelites to freedom. But he did all that talking to God. So when I was 15 years old, one of my friends got his brains blown out right in front of me. And he was one of the toughest guys that was around us. He was the toughest guy that I knew. And when I saw that happen to him, I became. Know. Just awoken by mortality. And I said, if that could happen to him, there's no way that I'm going to survive these streets of Brooklyn. And that's when I started praying and I started talking to God the same way that my grandmother told me about this Moses. And, you know, that's how I learned about God, not through an intermediary. I'm not judging anyone in their religion, because we all. There's a different route. You can fly to Los Angeles, you can take the train, you can drive. Everyone has a different route to where they need to arrive as a human being. But monotheism spoke to me. Moses from the five books that is in the Quran and in the Torah spoke to me. And so I started having this conversation with God every day, because every day was life or death for me in Brooklyn. Literally.
- [19:58]
Stephen A. Smith
Well, I'm. I'm from Hollis, Queens. I'm from Hollis, Queens. Bunch of relatives in Brooklyn. Bunch of relatives in the Bronx. I know what you're talking about. Listen, we're running out of time. I'm so mad there's only gonna be third man, because I could have sat down with you for two hours with the stuff you talking about, because I got a whole bunch of stuff that I want to get to. But I want to ask you this.
- [20:15]
Moses Shine Barrow
How.
- [20:16]
Stephen A. Smith
How on earth did you become the leader of the opposition party in Belize? I know your dad, if remember correctly, correct me if I'm wrong, according to my research, first black prime minister in Belize. I mean, how did you become. How did you become the leader of the opposition party? How did you climb that high?
- [20:34]
Moses Shine Barrow
Well, remember, I grew up in.
- [20:36]
Stephen A. Smith
In.
- [20:36]
Moses Shine Barrow
In. In. I left Belize when I was 8. Grew up in Brooklyn with my mom. So I. I love my dad. Him and I, you know, have the best relationship than we've ever had. Obviously, we've had our difficulties in. In the documentary, you see him being the honorable person that he is and, and owning up to that. But when I got involved in politics, like everything else in my life, my dad didn't have anything to do with it. You know, he was surprised when he heard from the media.
- [21:07]
Stephen A. Smith
So how'd you get in it?
- [21:08]
Moses Shine Barrow
When I went back to Belize, I was living in Paris about in 2013, and I went to Belize to visit for my mom's 60th birthday. And, you know, I would always go back to my community, see how people are living, go visit, you know, different relatives, and people will be complaining. We don't know where we're going. You know, things about the change, and we don't know about the new leaders that are going to take over. You know, why don't you get involved? And there was a friend of the family that said, shine, this is your time. We need you. You have this global experience. You have your own wealth. You're not like these corrupt politicians that are going to get involved in politics to get rich and to get famous, because you already had that. You actually mean well for the people, and these are the type of leaders that we need. And I said to myself, you know, what am I doing in Paris? Belize needs me. I'm going to come back home and I'm going to get involved. And that was in 2013, about 11 years ago. And I was working ever since then. I started off as the vice chairman of the constituency and I opened up a resource center, and I just kept working every day. Ironically enough, my uncle, who held the seat that I have told me that he wasn't going to support me because he already made a promise to one of his friends and that, you know, he's going to beat me in a convention. And so I better. I better find something else to do because I'm never going to become the area representative as long as he's there, because he already made promise to someone else. I fought the same way I did in Brooklyn to become Shine the rapper, dodging bullets, chasing down street teams, jumping over the desk at Def Jam so that the A and R would hear me. I fought to get here. And so I first won my seat in the House of Representatives. Then I won a convention, a national convention, a party convention to become the party leader. And that's how you become, you know, the opposition leader in the House of Representatives. And I'll fight to win 16 seats to become the next prime minister in the next elections.
- [23:14]
Stephen A. Smith
And you, you, you. So in other words, you on the verge of being the next prime minister of Belize.
- [23:18]
Moses Shine Barrow
And.
- [23:18]
Stephen A. Smith
And it's not easy, you hear? You here.
- [23:24]
Moses Shine Barrow
I'm rooting for it. I'm a step away from it. And I believe the economy inflation, similar to what happened here in the United States, you know, that's what people are Looking at, you know, people's lives are not better in Belize over the last four years of this new administration. So we're going to continue to take that message to all Belizeans and we're going to continue to work to formulate policies that will solve their problems.
- [23:51]
Stephen A. Smith
And how long again that election would be when? 2 years, 3 years? What time?
- [23:57]
Moses Shine Barrow
That election could be as early as 90 days. I've been, I've been in the House of Representatives for the last four years. And so elections could be anywhere from 90 to the next, maybe 180 days. But we, we suspect 90 days.
- [24:14]
Stephen A. Smith
And obviously people are going to be watching the honorable Sean. We're going to be watching this documentary when they ask you, because inevitably, at least in the United States of America, they're going to ask you, did you hear anything about P. Diddy? Did you hear what happened? How do you feel about what happened? Are you going to say about him, if anything at all, at this point in time?
- [24:36]
Moses Shine Barrow
I pray for the victims. I pray for people like Cassie, who has been proven that she's a victim, and, and everyone else. I'm not sure the credibility of everyone else. I, I pray for the victims and, and I pray for Diddy. I, I pray that he's able to do some soul searching and even if he's not guilty of, of the accusations, there's a reason he is where he is right now. And it's up to him to communicate with God and, and to try to cleanse his soul and pivot and move forward and, and redeem himself. And I pray that he's able to go through that journey and that he has success because the same way I was rehabilitated and I reformed myself. I'm not here to condemn anyone in perpetuity. You know, I hope that, that justice is served. If he's not guilty, the judicial system will decide that. If he is, I hope that he's contrite and he turns his life around. And I hope that the victims can get closure.
- [25:36]
Stephen A. Smith
Direct question. When you've made it very, very clear and the people who love you have made it very, very clear, you got a bad rap, you took the rap, you suffered because of it, unfairly. Is that a roundabout way or not, an indirect way of saying it wasn't you, it was Diddy who did that shooting in 1999?
- [25:55]
Moses Shine Barrow
I was defending myself, so I would never say that I did not fire in self defense, but the question is who else fired? The reality is, the fact is there were shell casings found from two Other guns in addition to my show, casings that did not obviously match mine. The forensics never took the ballistics out of the victims. So we don't know who shot the victims. And according to one victim, Gotcha. And those are just the facts. I maintain that I was acting in self defense and I continue to say that. So I'm innocent in the sense of I did not intentionally try to hurt anyone. I was defending myself. But what complicates it is that two other people or two other guns were fired and. And the victim says, did he shot her. So that's the reality. So.
- [27:04]
Stephen A. Smith
Listen, I got news for you. I got to let you go. I thank you for your time with this interview, my man. At some point in time, I'm not going to put it past me to come to Belize. I'm about to roll out there. I'm excited about that possibility.
- [27:22]
Moses Shine Barrow
Even. Even though I'm not in government, I try to work with the. The Minister of Tourism to promote Belize in a bipartisan way. So I'm sort of. Tourism ministry would be happy to welcome you. And we could hopefully time it around my memoir, because I'm coming out with a book. I gotta. I gotta write this and consider it done. Unlike the documentary that I link was creative control. The book is going to be all me. So maybe you could time it around the memoir, but maybe you could come before, check it out and then come back again for the memoir. I want you down there.
- [27:52]
Stephen A. Smith
I want you.
- [27:53]
Moses Shine Barrow
I want you to build a house.
- [27:55]
Stephen A. Smith
Listen, I want you to take some.
- [27:56]
Moses Shine Barrow
Of that money from that, from that new contract you're getting and come and invest in.
- [28:02]
Stephen A. Smith
No problem, man. I'm looking forward to. I'm gonna come down, but I want more than 30 minutes. I want more than 30 minutes. All right. We got to hang out.
- [28:09]
Moses Shine Barrow
Absolutely. All right. Thank you, Step, man.
- [28:11]
Stephen A. Smith
All the best. I'm so proud. I'm so proud of you. So proud of all that you've been doing. All the best to you, man. Keep making big things happen. All right?
- [28:17]
Moses Shine Barrow
Thank you, my brother. God bless you and God bless your viewership. God bless, please. God bless America.
- [28:22]
Stephen A. Smith
God bless you. No doubt. My thanks to the one and only Moses, Sean Barrow. The Honorable Sean premieres November 18th on Hulu. Do not miss it. Make sure you check it out. Trust me, it will be worth it.
- [28:43]
Greg Rosenthal
What's up, everyone? It's Greg Rosenthal and I'm teaming up with the king of spring, Daniel Jeremiah. He requires me to say that we're going to be bringing you 40s and free agents, the only podcast you'll need this NFL draft season. From DJs mock drafts to my top 101, free agents will have it covered for you with all new episodes every Thursday keeping you up to date as we head to the NFL Draft. Listen to 40s and free agents starting on March 6th on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.
- [29:13]
Stephen A. Smith
What's up everyone?
- [29:14]
Moses Shine Barrow
Julie Sterbinks here along with former NHL player Nate Thompson.
- [29:18]
Greg Rosenthal
We're doing a new podcast together.
- [29:20]
Moses Shine Barrow
Here we go. The name Energy Line with Nate and jsb. Each week we'll get together and talk about hockey life. All topics are fair game, right? Exactly.
- [29:30]
Stephen A. Smith
And you'll never know who will drop.
- [29:32]
Moses Shine Barrow
By to join us. Julie is pretty well connected. She has text threads going that you wouldn't believe. Listen to Energy Line with Nate and jsb on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.