Interview Only: Journalist Toure blasts Drake's UMG lawsuit during his rap beef with Kendrick.

Summary

Summary of "The Stephen A. Smith Show" Episode: Interview Only - Journalist Torre Blasts Drake's UMG Lawsuit During His Rap Beef with Kendrick

Release Date: November 29, 2024

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Introduction

In this episode of The Stephen A. Smith Show, host Stephen A. Smith engages in a compelling discussion with renowned music industry journalist, Torre. The conversation delves into Drake's recent lawsuit against Universal Music Group (UMG) amidst his ongoing rap feud with Kendrick Lamar. Torre offers critical insights into the implications of Drake's legal actions and the broader impact on his standing within the hip hop community.

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Drake's Lawsuit Against UMG and Payola Allegations

Stephen A. Smith opens the discussion by questioning the significance of Drake's lawsuit against UMG, particularly focusing on the pre-action petition Drake has filed. Recognizing his limited expertise in hip hop, Smith seeks Torre's expert opinion on the matter.

Torre responds by highlighting the unusual nature of Drake, one of the world's leading artists, publicly accusing his record label of utilizing payola to influence music rankings. He states:

"This is a case of where you accuse somebody of doing something because you know that's what you do. That's what I would do if I was him." (01:54)

Torre elaborates on the pervasive issue of payola within the music industry, emphasizing that major songs typically have significant financial backing. He argues that Drake's allegations are reflective of long-standing, unaddressed practices where record companies manipulate outcomes to favor certain artists, undermining the perception of organic success.

"Nothing goes pop by accident... Drake is now saying that the company that he is a rainmaker for used its machine to help somebody else profit on his back." (02:24)

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Motivations Behind Drake's Legal Action

Smith probes deeper into Drake's possible motivations for initiating the lawsuit, questioning whether it's a response to embarrassment, a strategic negotiation tactic, or an attempt to hinder Kendrick Lamar's performance of their contentious song at the upcoming Super Bowl halftime show.

Torre offers a multifaceted perspective:

"My co-host, King Green, really thinks that this is part of him trying to renegotiate and perhaps even get out of the deal that he has with UMG." (04:16)

He further suggests that Drake's actions may stem from personal ego, unwillingness to accept defeat, and a desire to publicize systemic issues within the music industry that Drake perceives as detrimental to his career.

"Drake is all reminding us of how much we loved 'Not Like Us' at its height... Drake is struggling to maintain his image amidst these allegations." (04:16)

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Impact on Drake's Credibility and Business Within Hip Hop

When questioned about the repercussions of his lawsuit on his reputation and business, Torre draws parallels between Drake's behavior and sports figures who are respected for their grace in defeat. He contrasts Drake's approach with the expected demeanor in hip hop culture, painting Drake's actions as uncharacteristic and detrimental.

"Drake seemed to be dealing with the loss like a gentleman... This makes him seem like the whiniest crybaby." (06:03)

Torre argues that such behavior alienates fans who value authenticity and resilience in hip hop artists. He posits that Drake's relationship with his audience may suffer as a result, potentially leading to a decline in his broader appeal despite his commercial success.

"If you don't like Drake, if you think he's corny, the music doesn't work... This is like taking a big stamp and like, boom, boom, I am corny." (06:03)

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Siri Misdirection Claim and Its Implications

Smith introduces a specific allegation from a Business Insider article claiming that UMG paid Apple to have Siri misdirect users from Drake's "Certified Lover Boy" to Kendrick Lamar's "Not Like Us," which contains derogatory lyrics about Drake.

"The petition claims that UMG paid Apple to have its voice assistant feature... misdirect users to Kendrick's song." (08:15)

Torre expresses skepticism about the validity of these claims, suggesting that such manipulations are commonplace in benefiting Drake's career. He likens Drake's response to political figures like Trump, who often blame systemic issues following a loss.

"It's very Trumpian in that when Trump lost in 2020... That's what Drake is... he lost and he's like, oh, they miscounted all the machines." (09:10)

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Assessing UMG's Dealings and Drake's Contract with UMG

Smith references a Business Insider article detailing UMG's history of lucrative record deals, culminating in Drake's unprecedented $400 million contract in 2022. He questions whether UMG might be leveraging Drake's financial importance to manipulate contractual negotiations, prompting Drake's lawsuit as a bargaining strategy.

"Is it possible that UMG and others may be guilty of what he is asserting... a negotiating ploy on their part which forced Drake's hand?" (10:07)

Torre admits his limited understanding of the legal intricacies but provides context on the evolving dynamics of artist-label relationships. He emphasizes Drake's unique value to UMG as a top rainmaker, suggesting that the financial stakes involved make any negotiation or dispute highly complex.

"Drake is the big rainmaker... Everybody in the music business gets fleeced." (11:30)

He explains that transparency in financial dealings is often lacking in the industry, making it challenging to assess the fairness or motivations behind such significant contracts.

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Impact on Kendrick Lamar and Future Performances

Inquiring about Kendrick Lamar's position, Stephen A. Smith asks how Drake's lawsuit might influence Kendrick's performance of "Not Like Us" at the Super Bowl halftime show.

Torre confidently asserts that Kendrick will proceed with the performance, describing the song as a massive hit within hip hop. He criticizes Drake's legal maneuvers as ineffective and out of touch with hip hop culture.

"Of course he's gonna perform 'Not Like Us'... It's the biggest song of the year." (13:27)

Torre views Drake's actions as a misstep that undermines his credibility, suggesting that such attempts to interfere with artistic expression are unprecedented and likely to backfire.

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Long-Term Consequences for Drake in the Hip Hop Community

Addressing the potential fallout from his lawsuit, Torre predicts a gradual erosion of Drake's fan base within the hip hop community. He draws on the concept that artists' longevity and continued relevance depend on audience support, which he believes Drake's actions may jeopardize.

"It just erodes more and more over time... You get the core fan base but not other people, because they're like, yo, this man is corny." (14:46)

Torre foresees that while Drake will remain a commercially viable artist capable of producing platinum albums and touring, his broader influence and appeal within the core hip hop audience may diminish as perceptions of authenticity and cultural alignment are questioned.

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Conclusion

The episode concludes with Stephen A. Smith thanking Torre for his insightful analysis. The conversation underscores the complexities of Drake's legal challenges, the deep-seated issues within the music industry's practices, and the delicate balance artists must maintain between commercial success and cultural authenticity.

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Notable Quotes:

• Torre on Payola and Industry Practices:

  "Nothing goes pop by accident... Drake is now saying that the company that he is a rainmaker for used its machine to help somebody else profit on his back." (02:24)

• Torre on Drake's Credibility:

  "Drake seemed to be dealing with the loss like a gentleman... This makes him seem like the whiniest crybaby." (06:03)

• Torre on Financial Transparency:

  "Everybody in the music business gets fleeced... You never really know." (11:30)

• Torre on Long-Term Consequences:

  "It just erodes more and more over time... You get the core fan base but not other people, because they're like, yo, this man is corny." (14:46)

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For those interested in further insights from Torre, tune in to his shows Rap Latte on YouTube and The Torre Show on your preferred podcast platform.

Transcript

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[Greg Rosenthal]

What's up everyone? It's Greg Rosenthal and I'm teaming up with the King of Spring, Daniel Jeremiah. He requires me to say that we're going to be bringing you 40s and free agents, the only podcast you'll need this NFL draft season. From DJs mock drafts to my top 101, free agents will have it covered for you with all new episodes every Thursday keeping you up to date as we head to the NFL Draft. Listen to 40s and free agents starting on March 6th on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Stephen A. Smith]

My next guest is a journalist that has covered the music industry for decades. He's also an author, podcaster and television host. You can watch his show rap Latte on YouTube and listen to the Torre show wherever you get your podcast. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome to the show, the one and only Tor. What's up big time? How are you, man?

[Torre]

Thank you, Stephen A. Thank you for that welcome. I appreciate that, man.

[Stephen A. Smith]

First of all, it's good to see you, man. Thank you for taking time out of your busy schedule to do this. I really appreciate it. And I'm, I'm, I'mma be straight up with you. I'm as ignorant as they come with this kind of stuff. To Ray, this is that, you know, I don't cover hip hop. I listen to hip hop music, but I don't cover it at all. How big of a deal is it in your mind that Drake is actually clearly entertaining filing a lawsuit with this. What is it called, this pre action petition. How big of a deal is it in your eyes?

[Torre]

You know, I find it bizarre and kind of a big deal that one of the biggest artists in the world wants to have a public conversation about whether or not payola was used against him when certainly Paola has been used to benefit him on multiple occasions, right? I mean, like this is a case of where you accuse somebody of doing something because you know that's what you do, right? That's what I would do if I was him.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Right.

[Torre]

Every major song has a Massive expenditure behind it. Nothing goes pop by accident, and it's just an organic success that had no help. There are bots that there is payola. There's all sorts of ways that radio stations and streamers and other ways that we get music to consumers are influenced by music industry money. And we have dealt with payola in large ways throughout our history. In the 50s and the 70s. Like, it has been a huge issue. It is something the music industry never wants us to talk about because it's unseemly. We don't want to think that somebody paid a million dollars to make that song number one. We want to think that the fans fell in love with the song and it's a true representation of what the people want. This is not the case. And Drake is now saying that the company that he is a rainmaker for used its machine to help somebody else profit on his back. So on his image. Because the song predicated on dissing Drake and it robs Drake of chances to get straight dreams. So they pushed the song up, made it large. It became gigantic. And this was personally damaging to Drake's business. This is the most unhipop way of responding to a beef ever. But this is where we are.

[Stephen A. Smith]

All right, so this is where we are. And why do you think Drake is doing this? Is it because he's excessively and ultra embarrassed? Is it because he's using it as a negotiating ploy against the company that he works with or what have you? Or is it incentivized primarily in an effort to stop Kendrick Lamar from performing this song? During halftime of the upcoming super bowl.

[Torre]

In February, we had a big conversation about this on Rap Latte. My partner, by co host King Green, really thinks that this is part of him trying to renegotiate and perhaps even get out of the deal that he has with umg? I don't know if that's even possible. I think we're really seeing more of an angry, egotistical, wealthy man not wanting to admit loss and would rather say to the people, there was a systemic reason why I lost. There was a machine that pumped up the song that made it gigantic. That's why I lost. Because the machine, the record company machine, made not like us so huge. I don't know if there's really any way that Drake could stop Kendrick from performing not like us at the Super Bowl. That's going to happen. But the song has already been one of, if not the biggest smash of the last 10 years, certainly within hip hop culture. The only thing I could Think of Close Was N Words in Paris that that was this gigantic of a smash. But I think Not Like Us was bigger, which is unwittingly. Drake is all reminding us of how much we loved Not Like Us at its height. So you see all these tiktoks where people are saying, well, I played the song a million times myself, so I can believe it got to a billion streams. It felt organic. It felt like it was everywhere. So of course we understand. Yeah, we know why the record was big. We made it big.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I'm wondering, how do you feel this will affect Drake's credibility in the hip hop industry? And how do you think it will affect him business wise?

[Torre]

Overall, I think one of the things that we see as this situation overlaps to sports, we respect a graceful loser. You get knocked out, you get beat at home, whatever, you hold your head up and say good job to the other team and you walk off without tears. And we're like, we respect you. And maybe Stephen A will go up first take and call you a dog. But you still respect him as a man because he dealt with the loss like a gentleman, right? Drake seemed to be dealing with the loss like a gentleman, right? And like, take it on the chin. And he lost big battles before and kept it moving and the feeling was like, wow, Drake is so big that he can lose a battle. This makes him seem like the whiniest crybaby. Richie Rich went off and deployed his money to try to get back at you. And it really does say, I'm not like you. I am not hip hop. I did something in response to losing a battle that no rapper would ever do. I felt like, he's going to survive, not like us. He's going to survive, you know, a billion people screaming a minor all summer long. But this brings it to a different place where I think a lot of people have to start to be like, I really like the guy. And like, for some people, they want to like the person, right? And what we're talking about with Drake is not being part of the hip hop culture, right? That was really Kendrick's main thing. And this is pushing that notion. If you don't like the guy because you're like, he's a whiny crybaby and he handled it like a loser when he lost. That sours you on the records. Because his vibe, who you think he is as a person, is critical to your relationship with him. Your parasocial relationship with him as a listener. You gotta, you gotta like him. If you don't like Drake, if you think he's corny, the music doesn't work. It doesn't matter how slick the raps are, how good the beat is. If I think he's corny, I'm not going to be able to rock with him. And this is like taking a big stamp and like, boom, boom, I am corny. Like, what are we doing here?

[Stephen A. Smith]

But listen, read it from the article, man. Here's one thing he said. I want to read these two paragraphs to you. They say, in one particularly eye catching claim, the petition claims that UMG paid Apple to have its voice assistant feature. Siri purposely misdirect users to Kendrick's song. Online sources reported that when users asked Siri to play the album Certified Lover Boy by Drake, Siri instead played Not Like Us, which contains the lyric certified pedophile, an allegation against Drake. This is what the rapper's lawyer said.

[Torre]

What I'm asking also contains the line certified lover boy. Right? So that's right. That light's in there too.

[Stephen A. Smith]

So, so, so, so, but, but here's what I'm asking you is do you believe that's the primary motivation for Drake going to this point to stop that from circulating out there any more than it already has because he was accused of being a pedophile?

[Torre]

I don't know if that Siri thing happened, but if it did, or any sort of manipulation, as I said, has surely been deployed on behalf of Drake multiple times throughout his career. So, you know, whatever Kendrick has benefited from this situation, Drake has benefited from it many, many, many times. You know, I mean, like, this would be like the Yankees crying about the Dodgers having bigger pockets. Like, what are you talking about? Like, you have been the big pocket of baseball for 40 years. Like, what are we talking about right now? I mean, you know, it's very Trumpian in that when Trump lost in 2020, he was like, it's the numbers, it's the counters, it's the machines. And that's what Drake is. He lost and he's like, oh, they miscounted all the machines. That's what really happened here.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Well, no, dude, what do you think about this? Because when you, when you think about umg, right? I, I got, I got some notes in front of me. According to a Business Insider article from 2016, these are the top 10 biggest record label deals, record deals, rather, of all time, ranked before Drake's $400 million deal. This is before Drake's $400 million deal in 2022. Michael Jackson at 250 million in 2010, U2 at 200 million in 1993, Lil Wayne at 150 million in 2012, Jay Z at 150 million in 2008, Bruce Springsteen at 150 million in 2005, Adele at 130 million in 2016, Robbie Williams at 125 million in 2002, Madonna at 120 million in 2012, Whitney Houston at 100 million in 2001, and Prince at 100 million in 1992. When you consider Drake's $400 million Universal deal, which was reported as being one of the biggest deals, if not the biggest deal in. In music history, it. Is it possible that UMG and others may be guilty of what he is asserting and because of the money he gets from them and the money he was in line to get from them, that indeed, it's a negotiate. It was a negotiating ploy on their part which forced Drake's hand. Is that. Is that a sensible argument for Drake to try and make?

[Torre]

I don't. I really don't know. I really don't know. You have gone beyond my understanding of the legal parameters of all this to be able to assess something like that. I think part of what we see with Drake's deal is two things. One thing is inflation, right? It's a different time, but also there are fewer superstars in the music world than there have been in the past. So somebody like Drake is even more valuable to a UMG than he would have been 10 or 20 years ago. There are fewer people who can move gigantic units. And he's basically taking care of the company, right? He is the big rainmaker. I mean, like, they aren't going broke on the salary. So if they're paying Drake 500 million, how much are they profiting off of Drake, right? Like, it's got to be a multiple above that. And everybody in the music business gets fleeced. Nobody. Because this is how an artist told me this. This is how you get paid in the music business, is it's like your boss gets your check. You don't get to see it. Your boss tells you this is what you made and then pays you out of that. Because you could never, ever see the actual accounting from the. From the actual numbers. Like you. That would never, ever happen. So you never really know. One famous artist told me once, the label owes me between five and $10 million. And I'm like, wait a minute. That is a gigantic range between owe me five or ten. Like, those are two entirely different conversations.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Yeah, last. Last couple of questions, because I Got to get out of here. And I thank you so much for your time. Torre. How does this all make Kendrick Lamar look at this particular moment in time and do you feel there's. There's no way on earth that he cannot perform not like us at the super bowl after this?

[Torre]

Of course he's gonna perform not like us. It is the biggest song of the year. It's the biggest song he's ever had. You know, they might do it three or four times in a row like they did at the pop out. I think Kendrick thinks this is hysterical. He's got an album that was. That's fresh out. The album is hot to death. Hip hop heads are like, this album is incredible. We're grinding on this album. We're doing the knowledge on this album because we. Kendra dropped a project. You got to, like, dive deep and pull out the dictionary and Google and try to figure all these things to see, like, what he's doing. And, like, got to have, like, a literature degree. So we're doing all that knowledge on Kendrick. Well, Drake is doing this. He's at a courthouse filing a suit. What are you doing, buddy? He could not have played this worse. It's, you know, it's giving. I like to speak to the manager. It's giving. I'm going to snitch on the corporation. I'm going to call hr On Kendrick, like, it's just the corniest move ever in the history of battling.

[Stephen A. Smith]

And what kind of thing. And what kind of consequences do you think Drake will pay for this? Last question. What kind of consequences do you think he'll incur for this in the hip hop community? From the hip hop community directly?

[Torre]

I don't think you see it, like, right away. Like, it doesn't happen like a lightning bolt, but it just erodes the fan base. It erodes the fan base and more like, you know, like a rock on the ocean, like, it just erodes more and more over time. A famous rapper once said to me, you don't retire from hip hop. The audience retires you. And I imagine at some point, it'll be like, there just isn't the energy in the air for Drake anymore. He's still a big artist. He's going to drop an album probably some point next year, it'll go platinum. He'll still be able to tour, but, you know, it just starts to shrink a little bit. Like, you get the core fan base but not other people, because they're like, yo, this. This man is corny.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Yeah, it was weight. It was weak. Torre. Appreciate you, my brother. Thank you so much for taking time out of your schedule to hop on with me at the last moment. Notice, man. I really appreciate you. Take care. Right.

[Torre]

Thank you. Peace.

[Stephen A. Smith]

All right, the one and only Torre right here with Stephen A. Remember to check out rap Latte on YouTube and the Torre show wherever you get your podcast.

[Greg Rosenthal]

What's up everyone? It's Greg Rosenthal and I'm teaming up with the king of spring, Daniel Jeremiah. He requires me to say this, that we're going to be bringing you 40s and free agents, the only podcast you'll need this NFL draft season. From DJs, mock drafts to my top 101 free agents, we'll have it covered for you with all new episodes every Thursday, keeping you up to date as we head to the NFL Draft. Listen to 40s and free agents starting on March 6th on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Julie Swerbinks]

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[Julie Swerbinks]

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[Discover Voice]

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[Julie Swerbinks]

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