← The Stephen A. Smith Show
The Stephen A. Smith Show
Interview Only: Legal Analyst Ryan Smith weighed in on Diddy testifying.
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Ryan Seacrest
This is an iHeart podcast.
- [00:04]
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Ryan Seacrest
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Ryan Smith
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Stephen A. Smith
21 plus terms and conditions apply. Now let's get to the latest in a federal sex trafficking and racketeering trial against Sean Diddy Combs. Testimony resumed this morning from a former assistant using the pseudonym Mia. This is her second day of testimony where Mia said Combs physically and sexually assaulted her numerous times when she worked for him. Mia says that she also felt trapped with no safe way to report the abuse she suffered. The former assistant testified she was suspended several times from her job for different reasons, including accidentally falling asleep after being awake for days and reacting to one of Combs violent episodes. The jury saw an email Mia received from human resources following the incident that noted she was suspended without pay for five days. Mia testified she was told her suspension was because Combs said she was being insubordinate. Combs has pleaded not guilty to charges that include racketeering, conspiracy and sex trafficking. If convicted on all counts, he could face up to life in prison. Joining me now to discuss this and other elements of the trial this week is Ryan Smith, contributor to the show, legal analyst extraordinaire for ABC Sports center anchor as well. What's up? Welcome back to the show. Ryan. How are you man? How's everything?
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Ryan Smith
Good to see you. Stephen A. How you doing man?
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Stephen A. Smith
Oh man, it's great. This case is crazy, man. I'm doing well, but I'm doing a hell of a lot better than Diddy. Let's get that out the way. Definitely a hell of a lot better than him. I want to pick up from where I just left off what's the significance of Mia's testimony this morning?
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Ryan Smith
It's huge. Not only from the perspective that she talks about how she was sexually assaulted by Diddy, which is a big part of the prosecution's case, but it's also part of their racketeering case. Part of what they're trying to prove is a forced labor element of his racketeering case. Essentially saying he had people like Mia working for days in a row under force of threats or coercion. What threats? There's threats that she has over text message, that of communications where he's saying, I'mma tell everything. Things like sexual assault that she experienced in her mind that might be told to Cassie and others that might hurt her. So what they're trying to put together to me as testimony is a couple of different things. First, first is that there was an element of forced labor going on under Diddy where people felt like they had to do things that were extreme under force of, like, threat or violence. She talks about how he threw a computer at her, threw spaghetti at her. That concern led her to be in this forced labor situation. She's also there to corroborate elements of Cassie's story. Cassie talking about the sexual assault she went through, and now Mia talking about what she experienced as part of the overall case of Diddy having this criminal enterprise, having all these people working for him, planning certain things, doing certain things to cover up the crimes they believe he was committing.
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Stephen A. Smith
So what else stood out to you in court this week? I mean, that seems like more than enough. Was there anything else that stood out to you over the last few days?
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Ryan Smith
Clark's testimony. That was huge. I mean, this woman talking about everything she went through working for him, working with him, that contributed to the elements of kidnapping and arson. Because you talk about Kid Cudi, that whole situation. We talked about this last week, Stephen, A. The idea that Kid Cudi feels that he tried to bomb his Porsche, that's the arson part. So she's talking about all the different relationships that Cassie had with Kid Cudi, how did he found out, and the reactions he had. Coming to her house with a gun, forcing her to go one place. That's part of the force, coercion and all of this. And then doing these things like breaking into Kid Cudi's house. She talks about everything that happened there and that she's then assigned to go and tell him not to talk to the police. All of this works into this criminal enterprise they're starting to talk about here. This idea that he owned or Operated and associated this enterprise of doing crimes and had all these people doing things to help facilitate that. When we talked last week, we talked about, hey, where is all of this going now? We're starting to see, Stephen, a. Where all this is going. It's not just about the accusations of sexual assault, the accusations of being a bad boss, the accusations of doing things, of threatening violence. It's the fact for prosecutors that he is doing all of these things to sort of facilitate criminal activity. And. And then on the other end, involving all these people to do these things for him, to either conceal it or to keep it going, and then doing it under force of threats or coercion, saying to people like Mia, hey, you do. Or the insinuation is, hey, you do. You don't do this for me, I'm going to tell everything about what happened with you and me. You do selling somebody else. You don't come with me. I've got a gun. You got to come with me, even if you don't want to. This is the prosecution starting to lay out that most powerful case on racketeering. That's what they need to get to get the maximum time in jail.
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Stephen A. Smith
And it's interesting that you bring that up, because obviously, when we've had you on. We've had you on covering this for us, and we really, really appreciate it, you made a point to say, basically, be patient, just wait. They're just starting to make their case. You know, when you're talking about him and his behavior, domestic violence, that's not sex, sex trafficking, that's not racketeering. They're laying the groundwork for their case. You kept emphasizing that. Right now, how are you feeling about what the government is doing and how they're doing in presenting this case against Diddy? What kind of a grade would you give them right now?
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Ryan Smith
Give them B plus to A minus, maybe even A. And here's why. They have their ducks in a row and they have their information set, and their witnesses, from what we're seeing in court, are testifying very, very well. What do I mean by that? Well, the groundwork part of it, like you talk about when you first. When we first started talking about this, you asked me how long this case would last. I said six to eight weeks. Now they're even saying it could go five weeks. So this case is picking up steam. The prosecution is not only efficiently presenting their case because, Stephen, you got to think about this as, like, people are sitting in that courtroom every day for hours hearing this stuff. If it drags on and on and on. And prosecution can't be very efficient with their points. You start losing jurors. They're going fast, they're going smoothly, and they're getting out information very quickly and very precisely. That's helpful for the jury. Not only that, cross examination becomes huge here because these people are getting pressed back. Let's say, for example, me and Capricorn.
- [07:13]
Stephen A. Smith
That's where I was going.
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Ryan Smith
Yeah, they're getting pressed back on their social media posts. All these things they posted with Diddy. These witnesses are prepared, though. They're talking about, hey, I posted this on this day. Yes, but it didn't mean I didn't feel this way at the time. They're talking about with Capricorn, Clark. They tried to press her on the fact of the. Did he have a gun? Yes, he had a gun. I had to go with him because he had a gun. That's witness preparation right there. You don't want that witness getting up there, hemming and hauling, opening up other lines of questioning. Now, the defense is doing what they can do, but what the speed of this case and the witness testimony I'm reading is showing me are prosecution witnesses that are very well prepared and a prosecution team that is slowly and methodically but efficiently building that case for rico. It's not an easy thing to do. And from what I'm seeing so far, reading. Because we're not able to see it on tv, what I'm reading so far, they seem to be doing a very good job.
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Stephen A. Smith
Well, we're just reading. You're not just reading. You're in the legal profession. You got sources all over the place. I know you listen to Ryan Smith. I mean, how is the. Tell us, tell us how the legal profession feels the defense is doing in light of how good the prosecution looks right now. What are you hearing about what the legal system. I'm talking about your colleagues, your contemporary lawyers. What do they feel about how the defense is doing?
- [08:33]
Ryan Smith
Lawyers I know and people I talk to, they think the defense had an uphill case to begin with. I mean, this was a tough. This is a very tough case to be. Stephen, you and I have talked about this before. This prosecution office, one of the best in the world. I mean, this is. This is top notch. Best lawyers you can get. That's number one. So you're fighting a really good lawyer on the other side. The second thing is, did he has a lot of bad facts against him. He's got lots of people coming forward talking about sexual assault and abuse. So you've Got a lot of people talking about the systems, how things ran, how we use threats and coercion to get them to do certain things. This is the RICO case. So they've got so much going against them. How are they doing? From people I talk to, the defense is doing well because you play the hand that you have. That's the key with defense. I think sometimes people think, well, defense lawyers are going to come out and have this smoking gun that nobody saw coming. That's not going to happen. That's not going to happen because there's so many bad facts.
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Stephen A. Smith
I apologize. I wasn't. I didn't mean to ask. How do lawyers, your contemporaries, feel the defense is doing in terms of are they doing a good job or are they not? I meant to ask, are they do. Are they confident they gonna be able to get this man off? That's what I'm asking to win this case. Because you can have lawyers. You could have lawyers saying, I think they're doing good. Based on the hand they're dealt, they're doing an excellent job. I'm asking, are there chances improving or dissipating towards getting them off?
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Ryan Smith
You're asking me what I think, or you're asking what they would tell you if they were being honest?
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Stephen A. Smith
I'm asking you and your contemporaries, what do y' all peel from what y' all have read, what y' all have heard? What's the scuttlebutt in your profession about how it's looking for Diddy getting worse.
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Ryan Smith
And worse by the day, getting worse and worse by the day. And every. Every bit of testimony I hear, it's getting harder and harder for him to get off. I think his chances are well below 50% of beating these charges. And you and I talked about this last week. Perhaps there is a way this jury looks at this, doesn't believe certain witnesses, and does what we call a compromise verdict. We're going to convict on some things that are lesser charges and maybe not on racketeering. That's perhaps something that might happen here. But I got to tell you, Stephen, A. What I'm seeing here is this racketeering case being built very well. That's the main part of this case. When you have witnesses coming up and talking about, he did this violence, he did that violence. We expected that. What I think is really interesting to me is how these witnesses are testifying that he would use that. I'm going to say this about you if you don't do this. I brought a gun. You're coming with me. You're going to do this with Kid Cudi. You're then going to talk to him and tell him not to talk to. This is exactly what people say happens in regal cases. And you got a jury who might be looking at it like, well, RICO cases, I think, of mob cases. I think people have to understand. What do you think happens in those cases? It's a mob boss allegedly telling somebody else to do this, do that. I'm not getting my hands dirty. You're going to do all these things. And I'm directing. And Stephen A. There's another part of this that I think might resonate with this jury that I think we have to keep our eye on. These are women, in particular, young women coming forward, talking about the forced labor, the violence perpetrated on them, the ways in which they were forced to do things at gunpoint. If you believe Capricorn, if you talk about what Capricorn Clark talked about, the things that he would say about them, will jurors look at this and say, he's treating women like this. When we think about a mob case, we think different men trying to prove things to other men. I wonder if there will be a dynamic of this, of these young women in Mia's case, somebody in their twenties trying to work in the music business and all of a sudden realizing they're in these situations.
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Stephen A. Smith
Ryan, you know, I appeared on Law and Order recently. You know, I got killed. I got killed in the first five minutes, you know, but. But it was. It was on my bucket list because I'm a Law and Order fanatic. I always watch the show, right? And we often see the defense coming to the prosecution looking to make a deal, okay? And sometimes the prosecution accepts it because obviously you represent the state and, you know, the quicker the case ends, the less money you have to spend, et cetera, et cetera. In real life, in the real world. What if Diddy's defense came and went to the prosecution and saying, it's not looking pretty good for us. But you know what? We'd like to plead to a lesser charge. This prosecution, the Southern District of New York, they strike me as a bunch. They're gone for blood. They want this man. They ain't trying to settle. They don't want a settlement. That's how. That's what I'm getting from this to that. You say what?
- [13:01]
Ryan Smith
That ship has sailed? That deal. Ship, I think, has sailed. Now, look, Stephen A. I'm not a part of their office, so I can't say if somebody there might say, hey, if here's what we don't know. We're in week two, week three of this case. If something goes really wrong for the prosecution that's unexpected, that might change this dynamic. But if it keeps going the way it's going, I would say that ship sailed. That ship probably sailed not long after the raid or not, maybe a couple months after. They started whispering things of charges. Because for him, the more he has been defiant, the more you put a prosecution in a place of. Well, he's been saying for months, these are all lies. This isn't true. I didn't assault anybody. I didn't do any of this. And now the prosecution has to deal not only with their case, but the fact that in the public opinion, this case has taken on huge attention. And you don't want to be perceived as, I'm letting him off the hook, especially if you have a strong case. So in my opinion, that ship has sailed. Unless there is something that we don't know or something unexpected happens for the prosecution.
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Stephen A. Smith
I kind of agree with you because I believe even if they don't do an exempt, an exemplary job of proven sex trafficking and racketeering, I think they've made such a case for depicting him as a monster that you're gonna have jurors that say, no, his ass going to jail. The hell with it. I'm gonna say he's guilty for this, too. I mean, I really feel like you if it, it can get that bad. But let me move on to this next question. Cause I know I get you. Got to get you out of here. Suge Knight called in the CNN last night and said Combs should take the stand in his own defense. Combs actually did back in 2001, if you remember, when he testified in the Manhattan nightclub shooting that sent rapper Sean to prison for 10 years. Combs was acquitted of all charges in that case, by the way. We've got to mention that. But Ryan Smith, is it possible that he'll end up taking the stand in this trial? And should he? Would you advise him to do so?
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Ryan Smith
No, not at all. I don't want to get on the wrong side of Suge. Now, that's number one, right?
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Stephen A. Smith
But look. No, neither do we. Neither do we.
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But.
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Ryan Smith
But I tell you what, that is a last resort of last resorts. I know that people watch Law. Look, Stephen A. I'm a Law and Order fan, too. I know people watch shows like that. They see people take the stand sometimes. They see people jerk, her mind's being changed. Something comes out. Oh, my God, I can't believe it. That is a rarity. This is something you do not want. The moment he takes the stand and opens his mouth, everything about his life is fair game, including stuff that they could not bring into court. Now he's opening his mouth. Let's ask him about those things that wouldn't have been admissible because he opened his mouth on them. Once he opens the door on some of that stuff, things that he might not even be thinking about, ways in which he might want to defend himself that his lawyers tell him not to say, but maybe he could say, because anything can happen on that stand. Now you're dipping yourself into an even deeper hole. So for me, that I do not think he should do it. I would never advise it. And honestly, even if everything was against him, I would still say no. Because once you open that door, that could change everything about what you as a defendant think or what you as a person who's on trial thinks could happen to you. And. And I think it's easy for people to think about it outside of that, like, I'm gonna prove myself, but that is not how it plays out in a courtroom.
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Stephen A. Smith
Maybe I'm just. Maybe I'm thinking a little bit differently because I gotta open my mouth for a living. I mean, you host, I commentate, you know, and so I'm thinking about, oh, my God, people accusing. I got to sit here and listen to all of these people talk, and I can't say anything in my defense. That's the whole one, Ryan.
- [16:31]
Ryan Smith
But, Stephen A. I see you get cross examined, but now let's imagine you getting cross examined on your own words for days in a row. And not only that, on things that might have flowed from those words that you didn't even bring up.
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Stephen A. Smith
Right?
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Ryan Smith
That's the problem with cross examination. You open a door, and that door can be so much wider than you think.
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Stephen A. Smith
Let me throw this by you. I don't know if you've seen the reports percolating right now, my man. They're talking about how Trump, President Donald Trump has not closed the door on pardoning P. Diddy for this sex trafficking and racketeering case. I mean, what do you make of that, Ryan? I mean, and how do you anticipate something like that could potentially influence the prosecution?
- [17:14]
Ryan Smith
I don't even know what to say. Okay, so first thing is, if Diddy's convicted, he can do it. President Trump could do it. That's number one. Number two, I wouldn't as a prosecutor, I would not let that affect me in any way. Here's the deal. My job is to prosecute the case. That's it. My job is to prosecute the case. If the president chooses to do something else, then he chooses to do something else. Now, some people might be out there thinking, okay, if the prosecution hears this, maybe that makes them want to make a deal. That is not how I would approach it. If I was a prosecutor, I would say I can't control those things. What I can control is the case I prosecute. And also what I can control is what my office does. And what my office does is we brought this RICO case and we brought this sex trafficking case and this sulk because we believe that we could win it. So we're going to pursue that. If something happens in the courtroom to change that and we need to make a deal, fine. But I wouldn't do that on the basis of what someone outside of the case says, because to me, that's where you start second guessing yourself. And you erode your case once you start doing that. So if I'm prosecutors, that's noise. My case is my case inside the courtroom, and that's what I focus on.
- [18:24]
Stephen A. Smith
Any idea how you think that would influence the defense or, dare I say, a jury, if they somehow, some way became aware that the president is just lurking, Being quoted as saying, diddy once liked me a lot. You know, I mean, we, we, we, we got along just fine. I mean, could you imagine it having any kind of impact on a jury or the defense and its approach, knowing there's a possibility, maybe that's an angle they could work in the months to come?
- [18:50]
Ryan Smith
I don't think it would have much of an impact on the defense other than they, they too have to kind of go with what's in that courtroom. They're bound by the. In that courtroom, the judge is what matters. The jury is what matters. Outside actors do not matter. So for them, they got to focus on that now. Could they use that later? If Diddy is convicted, they're trying to appeal. If there's rumblings about that, maybe that's a different discussion. But what I really worry about, Stephen A. Is what you just said. A juror somehow finding out about this. You know, I just want to say this as a person who's practiced law for decades. The courts are just. We don't realize how precious this institution is. We don't realize how amazing it is that we live in a society where people can be on trial and jurors can sit there and they can actually not read anything. See Anything and take the process so seriously that nothing outside affects them. It makes me sad that someone on the outside would say something, maybe, or not realizing how that can taint somebody and possibly taint this process. Because I got to say, Stephen, and this is not me just saying this. This is the greatest process in the world. And I know a lot of people feel like courts go against us, go against black folks. I understand that part of it. I'm just saying, like, the integrity of the court system is so vital to making these cases in any way fair. And if we start having people say things on the outside that could perhaps get to a juror, man, that's disappointing because that's a slippery slope we don't want to go down.
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Stephen A. Smith
Before I let you go, Zion Williamson, you see the accusation that has been leveled against him, a former girl that he was involved with is saying that he raped and assaulted her. I believe it was 2020. I spoke about it a little bit early on the show. Just listen, I don't know what the hell has happened. I don't know what's going on. I wasn't an eyewitness. I can't. I know I can't speak to it. I just think that the times that we're living in, when somebody can make an accusation, I find myself saying to the guilty, I hope they throw your ass under the jail. To those who are innocent and being lied upon, it's sad, because the presumption of guilt in this day and age advent of social media and beyond is gonna be attached to you. What are your thoughts about that? As a legal mind, as a journalist as well, what are your thoughts about that?
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Ryan Smith
Well, first of all, I look at a situation like this, and again, you said it. We're just finding out about this. We don't know all the details, but the moment I looked at it, I think it's important to say, first of all, it's a civil case. This is not a criminal case. This is someone filing a complaint, making an allegation. I think the first thing I look at in these situations and Steve, and we see them more and more these days, was this a consensual relationship that in some way didn't go the way one party or another planned? Or was this a situation where there were elements of assault? And to me, it goes like this, the first thing. And you mentioned it, because the times we live in, I wouldn't be surprised to see an NBA investigation into this. They're going to follow what's happening, and in some way that's going to follow Zion no matter how it plays out. The second thing, though, and I think the more pressing thing for him is this legal process. I think there is a playbook we've seen sometimes with folks who say when these accusations come, they're false, they're baseless. I understand that that's essentially what Zion Williamson's people are saying. But I think what's going to be really important for him is to make sure that in this case, that if it's completely false and completely baseless, then he's going to need to make sure he is saying that specifically and not just saying this person is lying. I think what we've learned more and more nowadays is conduct that people have when one person thinks it's one thing, somebody else thinks it's something else. It can be used in these kinds of cases to be real assault, to be real litigation, to have real civil consequences. So I don't know what happened between Zion and this particular person, but I think the consequences here could be very big based on what happened in that relationship. And I think it's very important for Zion Williams person and his people to come out and not just do the thing of, hey, this person is false. I know there might be nuances here, but also to understand that we live in a society now where people who make these accusations, we need to be looking at these carefully and we need to be making sure that his conduct, in some ways, if it did cross a line, he needs to be addressing that. He needs to be addressing that and not simply be dismissing someone if something crossed the line.
- [23:14]
Stephen A. Smith
Ryan Smith, legal analyst extraordinaire for ABC News as well as the Sports center host for espn. My buddy. I appreciate the contribution to the show as always, my man. Take care of yourself and have a wonderful weekend. I would like to say we'll be talking a little bit down the road, but it's going to be real sooner than that because I'm coming out the finals, you know, give me on speed. See you soon.
- [23:32]
Ryan Smith
I'm ready.
- [23:34]
Stephen A. Smith
I got you. I got you.
- [23:40]
Ryan Seacrest
Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway. Now through June 24th. Score hot summer savings and earn four times the points. Look for in store tags on items like General Mills cereal, Chobani Greek yogurt, Pillsbury Crescent rolls, cinnamon rolls and biscuits. Haagen Dazs ice cream, Lindor chocolate truffles, Tillamook ice cream and Cove probiotic sodas. Then clip the offer in the app for automatic event long savings. Shop in store or online for easy drive up and go pickup or delivery subject to availability restrictions apply. Visit Albertsons or Safeway.com for more details.
- [24:11]
AT&T Advertisement
AT&T has a new guarantee because most things in life are not guaranteed, like getting through self checkout by yourself. Not guaranteed in a world where Nothing is guaranteed. AT&T is bringing something new to the table. AT&T is introducing a guarantee with connectivity you can depend on, deals you want and service you deserve or they make it right. Learn more@att.com guarantee@&t connecting changes everything. Terms and conditions apply. Visit att.com guaranty for details.
- [24:47]
Ryan Smith
This is an iHeart podcast.