← The Stephen A. Smith Show
The Stephen A. Smith Show
Interview Only: NBA insider Brian Windhorst, focused on the 2025 NBA Draft and its implications for various teams.
00:22:00
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- [00:00]
Stephen A. Smith
Foreign.
- [00:03]
Brian Windhorst
I wanted to get started with round one of the NBA draft last night. That began with a move that surprised absolutely no one, and that is Cooper Flag out of Duke going first overall to the Dallas Mavericks. There's a lot of stuff to get into. Cooper Flag going number one, Dylan Harper going number two. Obviously, that was a big, big deal for the San Antonio spurs, along with a bevy of other moves that were made. The New Orleans Pelicans, under the new leadership of Joe Dumars, made a whole bunch of move moves, to say the least. The Philadelphia 76ers were supposedly in a pitch. The Phoenix Suns made a deal drafting a big man and then acquiring another big man and Mark Williams from Charlotte. There's so much stuff to get into, and who better to get into it than who. I'm about to get into it with it now. Joining me now to discuss the draft and all the other moves teams made in round one last night is NBA senior writer extraordinaire and insider, the one and only Brian Wintos, right here on the Stephen A. Smith Show. What's up, Wendy? How you doing?
- [01:02]
Stephen A. Smith
You know, we're in the middle of the most crazy time of the year in the NBA. So teams are changing. We got a new champion. This is. This is in a lot of ways the best time of the year.
- [01:13]
Brian Windhorst
Well, listen, you look a little bit sleepy. I'm not going to knock you for that, but forgive me if I don't feel sorry for you because you know how exhausted I am. I could tell you that much. But we are here. Let's get. Let's get right to it, Wendy. Let's begin with Cooper Flag going to the Dallas Mavericks. What does this mean for the team in the Western Conference in your estimation?
- [01:32]
Stephen A. Smith
You know, I. I really feel like this was such an incredible turn of events. It is very rare that we see a team this established get a player this good in the draft. I don't know if it's quite Tim Duncan going to the spurs, but it's possible we could look back and compare it to that because not only is Cooper Flag a tremendous talent, but he is the perfect modern player. And what I mean by that is he has great size, he can play multiple different positions. And one of the things that teams want today is they want a big who can take the ball off the backboard and bring it up the court, start the offense so they can flow into their offense. Draymond Green pretty much redefined that role. Everybody's trying to do it, you know, Al Perrin, Shen Goon, for example, is a guy who's become an all Star doing stuff like that. Jokic is becoming a three time MVP doing stuff like that. Cooper Flagg is not a center, but he can do that. So not only do you have a player who's perfectly modern, he also wants to defend the hardest thing. And Stephen A, you know this from when young players tends to be the more talented they are, the less they care about defense. They have to come in the NBA and learn defense. This guy wants to defend. Even when I first watched him playing in high school, I noticed that he really cares on the defensive end of the ball. And having that coming in the league is very important. And then third, you look at this team, they have hall of Famers at center and point guard. He comes in as a versatile wing combo forward, whatever you want to call him, he fits into what they have. Like, it'd be one thing if he, he was duplicating a position. When Kyrie Irving is healthy, he fits in there. And so you said the other day that you thought that Dallas could be the biggest challenger to Oklahoma City in the West. Obviously that comes along with the asterisks of Kyrie, because we know that you don't just spring back off of a, off of an ACL when you're ready to play, that you're the same player. But that is not the hottest take you've ever had. We'll just, we'll just leave it at that.
- [03:43]
Brian Windhorst
You know, there are people out there that are being critical of Cooper Flag from this perspective. And I see. No, I don't understand it because I think the kid is a stud. There's only four freshmen in the history of college basketball that have been named national Player of the year. He's obviously one of them. But I'm looking at this kid right now and I love what he brings to the table. But he's not the great. Even though he got, he shot 38% from three point range, he's not a marksman per se. And so when people look at him, obviously he's talented, he's athletic, he's gifted as a basketball player, and he also happens to be white. They think about Larry Bird and then that's a, that's, that's just F for the critics to say. No way in hell he ain't that dude. I don't think he's a Larry Bird type either because he's not that kind of scorer. But I do think he's gifted enough to be whatever the hell he wants to be, considering the fact that he's gifted as he is at this age of 18.
- [04:34]
Stephen A. Smith
I agree. I. If you're expecting him to score 25, 28 points a game coming out of the gate, that's not going to happen. Not only that, he's got other scorers on his team and we haven't talked about Klay Thompson at all. I mean, Klay Thompson's the shooter on that roster. So look, it's even possible, Stephen A. That he may not even win Rookie of the Year. You know, they're, you know, Ace Bailey or somebody else, you know, you know, may get on a team where he might average 28 points, 25 points and put up huge numbers. And you might see Cooper flag because of the other guys on his team and because his role is not be a high score. And a lot of way, a lot of times that defines what people think of rookies is how much they score. So, yeah, if you're going to hold them to the standard that he's going to shoot the ball like Larry Bird and, and create and have all that offensive versatility, you are probably going to be underwhelmed. But in terms of his overall impact on the game, I mean, he has the potential. I mean, look, all I'll say is this. As you know, it is very rare for rookies to drive winning. LeBron didn't make. I mean, LeBron instantly made the Cavs better, but he didn't make the playoffs till his third year. Luka Doncic, again, one of the biggest impact players. He didn't make the playoffs, I think, until his third year. Kevin Durant, he didn't make the playoffs, I think, until his third year. You know, you can come in and help your team, but it, you know, the idea that you're going to come in and drive winning from day one, that doesn't happen with rookies. I believe this player on this team, he can help drive winning, and that should be what the standard is more than anything.
- [06:05]
Brian Windhorst
Let's go to the number two pick, Dylan Harper. I know the spurs had a couple of picks in the first round. They picked Carter Bryant with the 14th pick. But then Dylan Harper, is he that good? Um, I think he is. I think he's talented. I think that what I'm seeing from the San Antonio spurs is that they're a team that's trying to emulate the Oklahoma City Thunder to, to some degree in terms of having players that are interchangeable parts, play, is capable of playing multiple positions. I view Dylan Harper as one of those dudes that's versatile enough to make some noise at either God spot. Talk to me about your thoughts about that pick.
- [06:40]
Stephen A. Smith
Yeah, so the spurs definitely are going to have a little bit of a crowded backcourt here because they, they heavily invest in Deer and Fox. They, they traded three first round picks for him and I believe are going to extend, yeah, they're going to extend him to the tune of $200 million in the next few weeks. They've obviously got Stefan Castle, who's the reigning rookie of the year, who's a combo guard. They've got Devin Vassell, who they've invested heavily. You know, right now he's actually their highest paid player. And then now they've drafted Dylan Harper. Now you can say, I don't know if all those guys are going to stay. And I mean, already it looks like there's no room for Chris Paul. You know, I don't know where Chris Paul's going to end up. He's actually going to be one of the more interesting free agents. They do have a little bit of a crowded backcourt there, but they're going to be big into positional versatility. If you listen to Brian Wright, their general manager, last night, he addressed this question and he said, yeah, if you look at the game traditionally, we have too many guards. If you look at the game in the modern era, in the era where there's, you know, you're putting basketball players on the court and picking out matchups, we like where we're at. And by the way, it helps when you have a center in Victor Wembanyama who can play like a wing and who can, you know, bring the ball to court as well and, and create a little bit offensively. So I do think there could be some, some moments there. I don't think he's an ideal fit. But one thing that I know, talking to scouts from a talent standpoint, this was in a lot of ways a two player draft. Now, just because people think that in June of 2025 doesn't mean that's the reality that it'll look like a year or four years from now. But a lot of people felt that it was Cooper, it was Harper, and then there was a golf with everybody else. And so the spurs with the number two pick took the most talented player and with where they're at and they're building, they can't be drafted for fit. When you have the number two pick, you take the most talented player and you figure out the fit later. And that's probably what they're going to do.
- [08:38]
Brian Windhorst
You know, one of the things that one of the people that was making noise was this kid, Ace Bailey, who was considered one of the top three talents in the draft. But because he had refused to be interviewed or work out for several teams, you know, several, you know, couple of teams passed on him before he was taken. We know that the kid is good, is gifted and what have you. My position was no one, anybody could. Could be justified in taking him except the Philadelphia 76ers. After what happened with Ben Simmons, you can't take a chance on an unknown at the number three pick. If you're the Philadelphia 76ers, that is the one team that did not have that latitude. And sure enough, they were smart enough not to do it. And they took this kid Edgecomb, you know, and so I'm looking at him and I'm saying, okay, I believe in this kid and his potential. This K of Baylor, shooting guard out of Baylor. What were your thoughts about how the Sixers handled their draft?
- [09:28]
Stephen A. Smith
Yeah, so, I mean, Daryl Morey said last night after the draft, he said, we. He. He thinks that they have one of the best back courts in the NBA. Now, when you look or, you know, not just starting, but their whole across. So you think about A. Tyrese Maxey, you think about Paul George, you think about Jared McCain, their first round pick last year, who was playing like a rookie of the year candidate until he hurt his knee. And you look at Edgecombe, who they've now drafted. You know, the thing about Edgecombe that, you know, where I got positive feedback was, you know, he played for the Baja Manian national team last year with a bunch of NBA guys, with deandre Ayton, with Buddy Healed, with Klay Thompson. And like, there were stretches of games where he was the best player on the court. And that was against, you know, top teams. I mean, they almost qualified for the Olympics. They got, I think, to the championship game of their regional to try to qualify for the Olympics. And so there's reason to believe in him. They obviously were on the fence about Ace Bailey, Stephen A. Because they really wanted to bring Ace Bailey in for a workout. That was the only workout that base. That Bailey schedule, of course, didn't matter because he canceled it. And so, you know, the. I think the most relevant thing that Daryl Morey said last night after the game or after the draft was that they expect Joel Embiid to be ready by training camp. No, before. Before I even see your face on this. Expecting Joel Embiid to be ready is a statement that we have heard before, but we haven't really had any update at all after his knee surgery. So that was at least some sort of update. Yeah, and here's the other thing. The Philly could have traded this pick. Okay. Like, there was definite interest in moving up into this spot either for Bailey or somebody else. But with what's happened to Philly with trading picks, they don't. They don't operate in a vacuum.
- [11:20]
Brian Windhorst
Don't take the chance, you know, so.
- [11:22]
Stephen A. Smith
Edgecombe was probably the safer pick when it comes to Bailey. Utah, they have probably bottom three overall talent in the league, and they're in Salt Lake City. They cannot afford to worry about positional fit or, or whether or not a player wants to be in Utah. If you wait for players who announced they want to be in Utah, you're not going to feel the team. Okay? Let's just be honest. I live in the Midwest. I'm not throwing stones. They had to do what they had to do.
- [11:54]
Brian Windhorst
Listen, and I got no problem with what Utah did. Danny, Ange and obviously his son know what they're doing. Ace Bailey and Walter Clayton Jr. When the way that I saw Walter Clayton Jr. Played during the NCAA tournament and win the national lead in Florida to national championship. I like what they do. I'm a big fan of Jeremiah Fierce out of Oklahoma. I love the fact that the Pelicans pick somebody like him up. I think that he has Kyrie Irving potential. He's got to develop a shot, but my Lord, that brother can handle the rock and he's spectacular in open court. I love watching him play. Let me transition to the Pelicans since I brought them up. And I want to play this sound for you from Bill Simmons, because Bill Simmons was on a podcast and he was talking about the Pelicans and what the Pelicans elected to do with. With, you know, moving up, you know, trading up to get this kid Queen out of Maryland and what have you with Atlanta. I mean, Joe Dumas is getting criticized heavily about making this decision. I want you to listen to what Bill Simmons had to say and I want you to react to that. Play this for me, guys.
- [12:56]
C
This was when I lost my mind. I think I blacked out. I'm so glad the NBA can still give us these New Orleans trades up 10 spots so they could take Derek Queen and they give up their unprotected 20, 26 first round pick, swap that they have with Milwaukee, where they have the favorable. Whatever the better pick is. They keep. They send that to Atlanta, who had to be Deliriously happy. Like we only have to move down 10 spots and we get an unprotected. This was one of the five dumbest trades of this decade. I was speechless. I just can't believe it. And who is it? It's our guy, Joe Dumars. And now he just traded away their unprotected 20, 26 pick house. They're in the West. What the fuck does he think is going to happen next year? See, they think they're going to be a 5 seed. What is he doing? They should have shown the Hawks war room. As guys are taking their shirts off doing this and fudgeing, popping champagne on each other, they might have the championship belt now. A biggest mess of a team. I think this is it. I think giving away next year's first round pick and making it unprotected. I think they grabbed the belt.
- [14:02]
Brian Windhorst
Before you comment, Wendy, I will tell you this. It was risky, no doubt. And Bill Simmons certainly, certainly was making some sense. I like Queen because I watched him during the NCAA tournament, didn't mind, didn't pay much attention to the fact that the Pelicans had moved up to get him. That's a good point. Because you're in the west, what do you think you're going to do next year? I think it was insurance in case Zion Williamson goes out, even though he's not the player that Zion Williamson is. I think it was insurance in that regard. But I also want to say this. This is the same Joe Dumas. Yes, he made a huge, huge mistake by, by not drafting Carmelo Anthony years ago because he had Tayshawn Prince at that small forward spot and, and, and, and drafted someone else number two. But he did go to six conference fights, six consecutive conference finals, back to back NBA finals appearances and won a championship. That's the same Joe Dumas we're talking about here. So I just wanted to throw that out before I let you comment about the decision that Joe Dumas had to make. What could you tell us about this decision?
- [15:07]
Stephen A. Smith
Yeah, let's draw a line here on the Pelicans on one side. Let's point out that they walk away from this draft with Jeremiah Fears and Derek Queen. From a, from a talent standpoint, any team would be happy with that. And I think you have to evaluate that as their draft night. Where people are getting on them is the price that they paid to move up from the 23rd pick to the 13th pick. And specifically that it gives the Hawks an opportunity to either have the Bucs pick next year, which I'M not sure what the Bucs are going to look like right now next year. Maybe there'll be a playoff team. I don't know what they're going to look like. And the Pelicans, who have not been a reliable playoff team in the west and the Western Conference is a, is a beast. So I'm, I'm not gonna lie to you, Stephen A. I had executives text me today saying that this was the worst draft day trade since Luka Doncic. So. But that's looking at the value of the trade. That's not looking at the value of the player. What you are seeing here, people are talking about Joe Dumars. What you're seeing here right now is the imprint of Troy Weaver. Troy Weaver, who was the general manager in Detroit last year. He spent the year working with the Wizards and he has been hired to be Joe Dumars right hand man. Look at what they've done the last two, two days. They traded, they did a deal with the Wizards where they traded for Jordan Pool.
- [16:29]
Brian Windhorst
Right?
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Stephen A. Smith
You don't think they have insight into Jordan Pool? Troy Weaver was there every day. Okay. The second thing is Troy Weaver is from Washington D.C. in fact, it was Troy Weaver that recruited Carmelo Anthony to Syracuse all those years ago. He lives in Washington D.C. troy Weaver's son works for the University of Maryland program. Who knows how many games Detroit Weaver was at to see their queen. I'm not saying Joe Dumars wasn't in love with their queen, but this is Troy Weaver who, yeah, he had some mistakes in Detroit, but he also built the bones of that team that has now taken off and he also helped build the bones of the first contending team that they've had in Oklahoma City. So I think it's, it's both fair to say they walked out of this draft with a great two picks in the top in the lottery and yet also left themselves exposed to next season. They are now going to play next season with a little bit of a cloud hanging over their head because if they have a bad year, if Zion gets hurt again and misses a bunch of games and they end up back in the lottery, they are in big trouble of having egg on their face. But let's, let's first watch Derek Queen before we admit that. Just try to, you know, brand this as a terrible decision.
- [17:42]
Brian Windhorst
Totally fair. I only got a couple of minutes left. Wendy. Let's get right to it. Winners and losers in this draft. Give me your winners and then give me your losers.
- [17:50]
Stephen A. Smith
Well, you mention you mentioned the spurs the wing that they drafted, Carter Bryant. Like I, I am not a draft expert but I have people that are who have compared him to OG Anunoby. So you get Dylan Harper and that type of 3 and D wing defender which are always in in vital demand in the NBA. I think they have to feel good about themselves. I think the Hawks feel good about themselves. Number one. Again, I am not a draft expert. I'm not going to sit here and give you the finer points of Asa Newell's game, but nobody that I saw had him outside the top 20. A lot of people had him inside the top 15. They get him at 23 while also getting this valuable asset from the Pelicans. A day after they got Chris Eps Porzingis for a song, they traded a pick to get him. That's why I included in the draft and they have a $20 million trade exception that they're going hunting for. I think the Hawks in the Eastern Conference where we're seeing some teams have to take a step back due to injuries are potentially in the process of taking a step forward. So the Hawks and the spurs to me and also I'm going to give the Jazz some credit here. You mentioned Walter Clayton. I can't compare Walter Clayton to the other guys taken around him. I'm not that kind of expert but I watched NCAA tournament and I'd want that guy on my team. They liked him. Steve.
- [19:12]
Brian Windhorst
That's right.
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Stephen A. Smith
They moved up three spots to get him. They went into the draft saying we want Walter Clayton and obviously Ace Bailey is one of the most talented players in the draft. Utah, they are bereft of impact players and they drafted two guys with the potential to be impacts in different ways. So I think I, I would say Utah had a good night as well.
- [19:32]
Brian Windhorst
Last question. Phoenix. Your thoughts about them is one thing to get to, to draft this Malowich out of Duke, who I like, I love that pick by Phoenix. So I thought that was good. Giving up a first round pick for Mark Williams who failed the physical supposedly when the Lakers had traded Dalton Connect and a few other assets in order to acquire him. Giving up a number one pick although it's in 2029 and it'll probably be a lower first round pick in all likelihood at least that's Phoenix's thinking. I, I, I, I, I found myself a bit befuddled by that because you traded away Kevin Durant in a quest to get assets and you're looking to, to get assets because of the assets that you gave away over the last few years. I didn't think that was necessary. Last quick comment. What are your thoughts about Phoenix and what they did?
- [20:20]
Stephen A. Smith
Yeah, I mean it's almost like what do they know that the Lakers don't about Mark Williams because they actually gave two first round picks. They gave the 29th pick in last night's draft and the 202029 pick. 29. Not super duper valuable but nonetheless I will say this. Phoenix because they don't control their draft. They have to compete, they have to put the gas down, they can't tank and they've got Devin Booker and everything like that. So I understand the concept of drafting a guy who can be your starting center today and then drafting a player in common Maluage who is probably going to be a year or two away from being ready to be your starting center if things go well. I get that concept. But they did kind of pay. In fact they paid more. Looking at it a certain way, they kind of paid more than the Lakers did. The Lakers traded a pick and a swap. They traded two firsts, albeit one of the first was late. So they have put themselves in a position where Mark Williams better pass that physical and Mark Williams better come in and help them. It was a little bit curious but people are acting like it's strange to get two centers. I get that now you watch is not ready to play right now, but the Suns aren't going to get the benefit of the doubt. That's the bottom line.
- [21:35]
Brian Windhorst
One and only Brian Windows. Appreciate the great work all year my man. You take it easy, get some time off. It's well deserved, but I'm sure we'll be talking to each other in the next few days and weeks considering all that's expected to go on in the NBA over the next couple few days or so. So you take it easy. All right.
- [21:49]
Stephen A. Smith
Forward to it and I enjoyed spending so much time with you during the playoffs.
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Brian Windhorst
Take it easy, Brian. We'll talk later, buddy.