C (3:41)

Why is this story so compelling, particularly to somebody like yourself? I mean, he is. I think it's 73, she's 24. That's a 49 year difference. A lot of people are uncomfortable with that stuff. A lot more people don't care. Why does Pablo Torre care? Talk to us about that.

A (3:58)

It's a great question. My mom asks me this question as she's wondering why I go from being nominated for a Peabody, winning an Edward R. Murrow Award, to caring about this. And to me, this is a story about power, even a. It's a story about public figures. It's a story about what it means when a guy gets a job at North Carolina to lead young men and is hired under the pretenses of him being a lot like the guy that everybody at Carolina remembered from when he was the coach of the New England Patriots, the GM of the Patriots, a guy known for a couple of things, right? A lack of distraction, discipline, privacy, and truly an undefeated record against the media. And so this story is not merely like an age gap relationship story. And frankly, I don't care about the age gap so much, even though I think it is certainly interesting. I'm not here to yuck Bill Belichick's yums, right? He's not the first older man to be intrigued by a younger woman. That's not what's new here. What's new is the fact that we knew this guy in a very distinct way, such that he was One of the most defined characters we've ever seen before, with all of those ways that he defined himself very deliberately and proudly. And now the question is, why is he acting so differently? Who is advising him and what does it mean that he has handed power to a 24 year old that he met on a plane when she was 19?

C (5:21)

I want, I want you to explain how he's acting so differently. I don't see much of a difference. I remember seeing him at Boston Celtics games with a former girlfriend after he had gotten divorced. I remember seeing him as an individual that really didn't want to talk to the media at all. And when he did, it was certainly begrudgingly. In this particular instance, he was coming out with a book. I saw this interview where she was pretty assertive in that interview or whatever, and to me that fell right in line with him, only from the standpoint of he's only talking to you because he's promoting the book. And oh, by the way, having her be so invasive and so demanding during that interview that, that, that prevented him from having to be the bad guy for once, I really didn't see much of a difference. So when you say there's a difference in his behavior, articulate to our audience what you're seeing in terms of his behavior that so diametrically opposed to anything that we've seen from him before.

A (6:18)

Yeah, I would say, yeah, that cbs, the Sunday morning interview, that was just the glimpse, the first glimpse that the public had into the ways in which. Wait a minute, there's a new person who seems to be having influence over Bill Belichick. The reason he's acting so differently, as I have observed it, is because when he left the Patriots, when the NFL basically said, you are no longer wanted here as a coach, certainly as a gm, he had to pivot to being a public figure. Which means that a guy who was protected, Stephen, and you know how this works, a guy who was protected by an inner circle in a football building, a professional football building, had to figure out, why. What do I do now? And so when he is not insulated by the structures, truly the structures and scheduling of the NFL, he, as we all saw, pivoted to media. He launched about half dozen different media projects in which it was, now you're coming to Bill Belichick because he now for the first time wants to talk to the public, and he wants to be accepted and followed and subscribed to and appreciated as somebody who has many interesting things to say. And certainly when he was a coach, we, we Saw him give, you know, 1500 word paragraph long answers about long snappers. But this now was Bill Belichick saying, I'm here to be in public. And the person behind the scenes who was steering him, what I'm reporting is that the person behind the scenes who was in charge, the boss of his media ventures, the COO of Belichick Productions, is Jordan Hudson. And so when it comes to how is he behaving, it is the part about what his business was, and now it's the part not merely going to Carolina and being a college coach in which he has to appeal to young men, young people, and be online in this era of name, image and likeness. Right. He has to be somehow fluent in the Internet for the first time, which is what he has turned to Jordan Hudson initially for. When I talked to former players for Bill Belichick at the Patriots, what they say is that the most shocking part is that this man, his private life was supposed to be private. You saw him courtside, you saw him on Nantucket, you saw his former longtime girlfriend of 15 years, Linda Holliday, bringing him out to parties, bring him around to those things. But this kind of thing where he's being held up rather, I mean, he is holding her up by his feet, doing yoga on the beach, she's dressing as a mermaid. All of this stuff, you know, this is where his former players are like.

C (8:37)

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

A (8:39)

Willingly posting that. That's not the Bill that we knew.

C (8:44)

Well, what about the argument that the Bill that we knew had to alter his way of life and his way of thinking to some degree because the NFL didn't want a six time champion as a head coach, an eight time champion overall. When you take into account the two defensive coordinator positions that, I'm sorry, the two titles that he won as a defensive coordinator with the New York Giants, but the Atlanta Falcons job in particular, along with various other jobs that were available and mentioned he couldn't get those jobs because he was considered the past. You had young thoroughbreds, you had young bloods that were now running organizations that didn't want a football genius like himself as somebody that they would have to communicate with and ultimately answer to in some kind of way because he would be the head coach of a franchise. What about the notion that that forced and compelled him to make this shift because obviously he took a college job when we all know he would have preferred to be in the NFL.

A (9:39)

Yeah, look, the biggest signal was in the contract he signed at UNC because June 1st, which is right upon us is a big date. Even a. Before Jordan Hudson became this public figure in the CBS interview and elsewhere, we knew that there was a clause in that contract that said the buyout that Bill Belichick could exercise on June 1st dropped from $10 million to $1 million. Right. Ten times less. That was his option if he wanted, in fact, in. If he got, in fact, the offer that never came from the NFL and is not forthcoming in any regard. At this point. So it's always been about him wanting the NFL and having to settle for a different version of his life. And look, I don't have a lack of sympathy for anybody who does one thing at a genius level forever and then is said with no uncertain terms. He is told with no uncertain terms, you're not wanted here anymore. You're over the hill. Right? That is a human experience as well. I am not saying that that is not at play here. But the question of what you do next is where we're discovering Bill Belichick, really, for the first time. Bill Belichick, not in the NFL context. I remember Bob Kraft, of course, the owner of the Patriots, once said to our colleague Seth Wickersham, he said Bill Belichick was an idiot savant, which is to say he is an absolute unimpeachable genius when it comes to the football. But everything else, right, he's not. And we're just discovering the ways in which that might be true which we haven't had visibility into for 20 years.

C (11:13)

Just about a couple more questions before I let you get on out of here, Pablo, and I really appreciate it because I know you got to run soon. Are we even, do we even care about this if Jordan Hudson is not 24 years of age, if she's considering, I would.

A (11:27)

I. Now listen, the tabloid storm, the hurricane, you're absolutely right. This is, this is catnip for everybody who wants to say this is a story that you probably can deduce already without even clicking on the story. Right? It is an age gap relationship. This is a gold digger. This is worse. This is somebody who is. I've seen her accused of being an OnlyFans Model A and worth a call girl. Right? My reporting does not indicate that that is the case at all. This is the story to me of an ambitious young woman who in some ways reminds me of Silicon Valley. And I'll explain why I say that. Because I went to school, I went to college with these Silicon Valley people. And they are ambitious and they are young and they don't know what they don't know, but they go into industries and they blow them up. They blow them up and they leave a trail of wreckage behind them because they don't understand a really key thing, which is unintended consequences. So it's not that Jordan Hudson isn't in some way clever or ambitious or driven or determined or a real aspiring PR person. But see, even that you've worked in comms around comms people, PR people for as long as anybody at this point. And you know that when you are the story, you have failed in your job. And so the question becomes, is Bill Belichick keeping her around in this way because she is good at her job, or is it because, as his own family fears, according to sources around the Belichicks, he doesn't totally realize the damage being done to his legacy to Carolina, to that program, to this understanding of him that we were so close?

C (13:00)

I don't know about that. Listen, first of all, let me say this in the interest of full disclosure. I remember when I covered the Philadelphia 76ers and Larry Brown was the head coach, and at the time he was 56 years of age and his wife was 26. I mean, and that wasn't the only person that I saw was with someone considerably younger than them. I don't understand how that could potentially equate to tarnishing the legacy of a Bill Belichick when his legacy is completely tied to football excellence. That's it. Outside of his foot of football excellence, nobody has pretty much given a damn about Bill Belichick and his life or his quality of life or how he lives his life. All they've ever cared about was was what he did on the football field as a coach. So now that he's on a collegiate level instead of the pro level, if he goes to Carolina and win or whether he wins or loses, that might be a determining factor as it pertains to how his legacy is looked upon. But I don't think his personal affairs with who he chooses to have as a girlfriend or a wife, dare we say, is going to impact his legacy. Is that what you're implying?

A (14:08)

No, I'm saying that the football stuff on the field, his coaching record, unimpeachable, the decision making around it has been what's been called into question by everybody. And so when it comes to look, when I'm, God forbid we write the obit for Bill Belichick one day, the first paragraph absolutely needs to be around the football. The question is the Carolina experiment right now. And what I am told from Carolina Is that his own inner circle, the higher ups, the administrators at the university, are all saying that Jordan Hudson cannot be involved with our program. She is not welcome in the building. They don't want her around because as there have been records now, public records requests, that have shown that she has asked to be cc'd on every single email, she has been spotted in videos on the field. She is his representative, his first lady, in lots of ways. It's not merely that this is a younger woman. It's is that this is a woman who seeks power and has received it. Okay, and now the question is, how do you deal with that part?

C (15:08)

Last question. Two parts. Number one, has she been officially banned by the university or is it just that they don't want her around? And they've made that clear, but they're not demanding that she be banned and that she not be around. That's number one. And number two, do you think that Bill Belichick ever coaches a game at North Carolina? Do you think that's a job he walks away from before the season even. Season even begins because of all of this stuff involving her last word?

A (15:32)

What I'm reporting. Yeah, no. Two great questions. What I'm reporting is that, number one, there has been in no uncertain terms the message from the top of the university to the football program that she cannot be associated with the program anymore. She shouldn't be in the building, she shouldn't be on the field. Now, they have pushed back on that by saying in a bit of a interesting PR statement sandwich that Jordan Hudson is not employed by the university. They confirmed that for the first time in response to my reporting, and that she is only involved with Bill Belichick in the personal capacity as his PR representative, but that she is welcome in the building. Right. So I cannot speak to how North Carolina maybe adjusted what their messaging was since my report came out. They did not answer my request for comment, nor did they fulfill my public records request on that front. But the second question about whether he makes it a game, my suspicion right now is that the way he is handling his press tour indicates, in which he says to Michael Strahan, he says to Christine Williamson at the ACC meetings, he says it to Ryan Clark, our colleague. Right. He says she is off to the side. This is only personal. This is not football. If he's going to agree to that in real terms and everybody at Carolina is going to get to frankly calm down because they can do their jobs in the way that they were hoping to as a normal program might, then I think he makes it, of course, to week one. Do I think he lasts for more than a year? Stephen, A. For a team that, you know, didn't win seven games last year, I would set the line absolutely. At one season, a one and done scenario.

C (17:03)

So would I. Especially since he's got the 1 million buyout, because I think an NFL team could potentially come calling, especially if he's successful in North Carolina. And that $1 million buyout, as opposed to being $10 million, I think is something that is doable, and I think that he'll return to the NFL. Pablo Torre, appreciate you, man. Thank you so much for taking time out of your busy schedule. I know you got to run, so get on outta here. Thank you again.

A (17:23)

Anytime, Stephen. Anytime.

C (17:25)

All right. One only Pablo Torres. He's doing a good job, obviously, covering this story. I mean, for me personally, ladies and gentlemen, I mean, to each his own. When I thought about his personal life, I'm like, damn, if it's consensual. She's an adult, he's an adult. Ain't my cup of tea going with somebody that damn young. But that's his thing. That's his thing. Like I said, I've covered numerous executives, coaches, et cetera, that messed around with people considerably younger than them. I don't think that, that, you know, this is something that could potentially affect his legacy. What I will say, however, is this. It is interesting that she's his PR representative because that is him empowering her to some degree when she kept interfering, you know, with the questioning to Bill Belichick during that interview. It's one thing. I know that she's his girlfriend. It's one thing for people to look at her and say, hey, as his girlfriend. You know, look at how invasive she was. It's another thing entirely when you're as PR rep, because I've seen many PR reps conduct themselves that way during interviews. I've seen PR reps stop interviews from people when they didn't like the line of questioning. So that does change things a little bit. I didn't realize she was this PR representative. No matter which way you slice it, the man is older, he's divorced, he's got three kids, He. He had a girlfriend for a while, and then they broke up with her, and now he's doing this. In the end, it is entirely possible that Bill Belichick may have the last laugh because he's happier than a pig in mud than most of us. Some would say that if indeed it ends up going to that point, I don't know. And to be quite honest with you, I don't give a All I care about is what he's doing and he ain't breaking any laws, all right? And he's not committing any crimes and and they're in a consensual relationship. That's their damn business. What I care about is how he's going to look coaching the Carolina Tar Heels as head coach on a collegiate level and whether or not he's going to ever get back into the NFL as a head coach because he's not somebody that deserved to be without a head coaching job. Think about the teams that would be better off in the National Football League if Bill Belichick was coaching them as opposed to some of the other coaches that they have to answer to. I'm just saying. I'm just saying.

B (19:41)

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A (20:40)

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