Interview Only: Stephen A discusses with Touré the media vs public's reaction to the murder of UnitedHealthcare CEO.

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Stephen A. Smith Show – Interview with Touré on Media vs. Public Reaction to Luigi Mangione’s Murder

Podcast Information:

• Title: The Stephen A. Smith Show
• Host/Author: Stephen A. Smith and iHeartPodcasts
• Episode: Interview Only: Stephen A discusses with Touré the media vs public's reaction to the murder of UnitedHealthcare CEO.
• Release Date: December 20, 2024

---

Introduction

In this compelling episode of The Stephen A. Smith Show, host Stephen A. Smith engages in a thought-provoking conversation with veteran music and pop culture journalist Touré. The primary focus of their discussion centers on the controversial murder of Luigi Mangione, the CEO of UnitedHealthcare, and the divergent reactions from the media and the public.

Discussion on Luigi Mangione's Murder

Stephen A. Smith’s Stance

Stephen A. Smith opens the dialogue by expressing his unequivocal condemnation of Mangione’s actions. He states:

“If that is him, he is guilty of cold blooded murder. Shooting Brian Thompson, the former CEO of United Healthcare. I mean, shooting him in the back, murdering him. This is not somebody that should be celebrated.”
[02:53]

Smith underscores the gravity of the crime, emphasizing that such an act should not be glorified under any circumstances.

Touré’s Perspective

Touré responds by framing Mangione’s murder within the broader context of corporate malfeasance. He contends that while Mangione acted out violently, his actions were a response to systemic issues within UnitedHealthcare. Touré explains:

“We cannot have a conversation about Luigi without talking about what Brian Thompson and United Health Eric have doing. And the murders, plural, that they have been responsible for for many, many years.”
[03:25]

He argues that Mangione’s act was a form of political statement against an industry that, in his view, perpetuates harm for profit.

Public and Media Reactions

Media Critique

Touré accuses prominent media figures and outlets of condemning Mangione without addressing the underlying issues. He states:

“I felt like you were kind of scolding us, the masses, for seeing value in Luigi and what he did.”
[02:53]

He highlights a perceived disconnect between media narratives and the sentiments of a significant portion of the public, suggesting that the media overlooks the reasons behind Mangione’s drastic actions.

Public Sentiment

The conversation delves into the surprising level of public support for Mangione’s actions. Touré mentions:

“When millions of people are celebrating somebody for bringing pain like that to the healthcare industry, you have to say, why is it that so many people agree with his action and are cheering on his action?”
[13:36]

Smith counters by clarifying the statistics, noting that the reported 41% support originates from surveys of individuals under 30:

“41% of under 30. Okay, that's 41%, you're right.”
[08:04]

Despite the significant portion of younger individuals showing approval, Smith remains concerned about the societal implications.

Societal Implications of Celebrating Violence

Smith expresses deep apprehension about the normalization of celebrating violence, regardless of the perpetrator's grievances:

“I still can't sit up there when I see a man get shot in the back, gunned down and gunned down in the Streets shot in the back, murdered wife’s a widower, children no longer a father, and think that that's a cause for celebration.”
[08:15]

He questions the ethical foundations of a society that accepts or even encourages violent retribution against corporate figures, warning of the potential for escalating violence.

Touré, however, contextualizes Mangione’s actions as part of a broader pattern of societal violence and corporate abuse, stating:

“There is no serial killer that you could name who is responsible for more deaths than United Health Care. So now Luigi took it on himself to bring pain to the head of United Health Care.”
[09:30]

He posits that Mangione’s act was a targeted strike against a perceived systemic evil, rather than a random act of violence.

Broader Healthcare Industry Critique

Systemic Issues

Touré shifts the focus to the practices of UnitedHealthcare, criticizing the company for:

• Denying a significant portion of claims, leading to preventable deaths.
• Prioritizing profit over patient care.
• Betraying both uninsured and insured individuals by withholding necessary support.

He asserts:

“We need far greater regulation on the healthcare system. That is the core issue in this conversation.”
[10:29]

Corporate Accountability

Smith acknowledges the systemic problems but remains cautious about endorsing violent responses:

“There's no doubt about that. So I can't knock it. I was just saying... But I can't knock it. I was just saying we don't go out there and shoot somebody in the back and gun them down.”
[11:47]

Conclusion and Final Thoughts

The discussion culminates with mutual recognition of the complexities surrounding Mangione’s actions. Stephen A. Smith reiterates his agreement on the need for healthcare reform but maintains his stance against celebrating violence:

“That's all I was trying to say. But I got your point. I got your point.”
[15:39]

Touré emphasizes the necessity of understanding and addressing the root causes of such extreme actions, advocating for a more empathetic and solution-oriented media approach.

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Key Takeaways

• Violence as a Response to Corporate Malfeasance: The episode explores the contentious idea that extreme actions against corporate executives may stem from longstanding grievances with industry practices.

• Media vs. Public Perception: There is a notable divide between media narratives condemning the act and a portion of the public empathizing with the perpetrator’s motives.

• Need for Systemic Healthcare Reform: Both hosts agree on the urgent need to address systemic issues within the healthcare industry to prevent such tragedies.

• Ethical Implications of Celebrating Violence: The conversation underscores the ethical dangers of normalizing or supporting violent retribution, regardless of the causes behind it.

Notable Quotes

1. Stephen A. Smith:
   “If that is him, he is guilty of cold blooded murder. Shooting Brian Thompson, the former CEO of United Healthcare. I mean, shooting him in the back, murdering him. This is not somebody that should be celebrated.”
   [02:53]

2. Touré:
   “We cannot have a conversation about Luigi without talking about what Brian Thompson and United Health Eric have doing. And the murders, plural, that they have been responsible for for many, many years.”
   [03:25]

3. Stephen A. Smith:
   “I still can't sit up there when I see a man get shot in the back, gunned down and gunned down in the Streets shot in the back, murdered wife’s a widower, children no longer a father, and think that that's a cause for celebration.”
   [08:15]

4. Touré:
   “What is not okay is for the conversation to become about the rage that we have towards CEOs, as if that is the central part of the conversation. The central part of the conversation is how the healthcare industry is allowed to betray its customers and allow them to die and be in pain and be sick so that they can make a buck.”
   [12:47]

5. Stephen A. Smith:
   “We don't go out there and shoot somebody in the back and gun them down. That's not.”
   [18:03]

---

Further Engagement

Touré encourages listeners to continue the conversation and explore his perspectives on various platforms:

• YouTube: Rap Latte
• TikTok: Touré Show
• Podcast: Touré Show

Stephen A. Smith concludes by appreciating Touré’s insights and reiterating the importance of addressing both systemic issues and the societal impacts of such extreme actions.

---

Note: This summary captures the essential discussions and viewpoints expressed during the episode, providing a coherent and comprehensive overview for those who have not listened to the podcast.

Transcript

[Julie Swearbinks]

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[Greg Rosenthal]

What's up everyone? It's Greg Rosenthal and I'm teaming up with the King of Spring, Daniel Jeremiah. He requires me to say that we're going to be bringing you 40s and free agents, the only podcast you'll need this NFL draft season. From DJs mock drafts to my top 101 free agents will have it covered for you with all new episodes every Thursday, keeping you up to date as we head to the NFL Draft. Listen to 40s and free agents starting on March 6th on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Stephen A. Smith]

My next guest is a veteran music and pop culture journalist who hosts a popular Torre show. He's back to discuss the case of Luigi Mangione, the alleged killer of United Healthcare CEO Brian Thompson. We're also going to touch on Sean Diddy Combs in just a second as well. You know how that involves whether or not that involves rapper Jay Z. We'll get into all of that. The one and only Tor Ray is here with me right now. What's going on man? How are you? How's everything?

[Torre]

I'm good. Tell them about my show, rap Latte on YouTube. We talk about hip hop every day. We keep it real.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Rap latte. I mean, that's right. Every day, right? Is it five days a week?

[Torre]

Well, we're good. We're ramping up to five days a week, but we're on. We're on like four days now. But YouTube business, we're doing it out.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Here and that's right. You deserve it. You deserve it. But, but that's not what you here to talk about today. Because I'm here thinking there's a lot of things you could have talked to me about. I couldn't believe when my staff reached out to me and said Torre wants to come back on the show because I had the audacity to unmitigated gall to call this good. Luigi Mangione. I said, if that is him, he is guilty of cold blooded murder. Shooting Brian Thompson, the former CEO of United Healthcare. I mean, shooting him in the back, murdering him. This is not somebody that should be celebrated. And I'm hearing for that reason, Torre wanted to come on the show and talk to me about it. What could they possibly talk about?

[Torre]

I felt like you were kind of scolding us, the masses, for seeing value in Luigi and what he did. And I felt like not only you, but there was a lot of high level media people, Chris Cuomo, Ashley Banfield, Sarah Haynes and the View. I could go on and on Gayle King who were scolding us, saying we should not root for this person, we should not respect this person. He right, you, you already said what's wrong with that Cold blooded murderer.

[Stephen A. Smith]

He's a cold blooded murderer, is he not?

[Torre]

I think that that is accurate, but I also think that we have to. We cannot have a conversation about Luigi without talking about what Brian Thompson and United Health Eric have doing. And the murders, plural, that they have been responsible for for many, many years. And I don't even talk about the uninsured. I talking about the insured who they turn their back on, they betray. And I also mean deny claims from a third of their claims. Right? So we're talking about people who are getting, who need life saving help and United Healthcare is not there for them. Saying like, well, you know, that person has cancer. If we don't give them help, they're gonna die and then we won't have to pay their bills. This is a large part of how they make their money. So we cannot have any conversation about Luigi unless we're also talking about the thousands and thousands of deaths that Brian and UnitedHealthcare are on the hook for. So now from that perspective, things are a lot different, right? It's not just one person committed cold blooded murder, which he did. He laid in wait for him. He decided to kill him. He clear? I mean, it's a political murder, right? He's trying to make a political, political statement about this company that has been harmful.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Come on.

[Torre]

To Americans.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Come on, Torre, you got, you got to be kidding. Are you going to really say that? Listen, listen, first of all, let me say this. I saw D.L. hughley on social media talking about this and I took it and I reposted it because I wanted everybody to see what he had to say. Under no circumstances am I absolving any health care CEO who has engaged in such problems. Practices of, of.

[Torre]

They all have, which they.

[Stephen A. Smith]

That's, that's where I was going with this. They all have because we live in a capitalistic society and people trying to get as much money as they can, so they're trying to get as much as your money and give you the least in return. We lament that with every, practically every business right now. I think that's.

[Torre]

I think, I don't think anybody would refuse that.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I don't think anybody would.

[Torre]

Different, but it's different when Coca Cola is watering down the Coca Cola a little bit to get. Give you 95% Coca Cola instead of 100% versus a health care company saying we're going to deny your claims so that we can make more money.

[Stephen A. Smith]

But listen to what I'm saying. I get that. But my point to you is this, this was some middle class dude or well, to do who wasn't some impoverished dude, some member of a disenfranchised community.

[Torre]

It doesn't matter.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Hear my point, hear my point and then I'll give you an opportunity to respond. My point is he wasn't that dude. So when he's speaking to such things, we don't know how much how close he is to a situation like this. How does this hit him home? I'm saying there are some people out there who just want to murder and find any excuse that they could get away with Torre to do it.

[Torre]

Yeah, that's the point that I'm trying to make. Do you, do you, do you think that white people had no place during slavery, during be abolitionists, even though they were not slaves? Of course not.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Of course.

[Torre]

Do you think that men don't have a place to argue for women to have the right to choose what they do with their bodies?

[Stephen A. Smith]

Of course.

[Torre]

Right? I mean like, you don't have to be. You don't have to be specifically within the group to fight for the political rights of that. I'm not saying that to say that. I'm saying that Luigi came from money, so he can't have. No, we have no idea what he went through. His back surgery and his back issues were clearly a very deep part of his identity. He had a photograph of his X ray of his back on his Instagram page. Right, right on. That's one of his bio photographs. So that is clearly a huge part of his identity and how he sees himself. He went through an insane personal situation that we don't even know the depths of with his back and his back surgery and clearly dealing with insurance companies as part of this. This is a class warfare issue. But it's not the rich against the poor war. It's the people against the corporations that damage our lives. Even though he has money, he still is dealing with a situation from the health care people that he's so enraged that he does something. Most of us look at that and say, I wouldn't have done it, but I understand. And that's the core of the issue. He is but a player in this. When you see the country respond positively over 41% and supportively to what he did, what we have to say is not, you shouldn't feel that way, but why does everyone agree with what he did?

[Stephen A. Smith]

Well, time out. Time out. First of all, 41% ain't everybody. That's number one.

[Torre]

No.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Number two.

[Torre]

No, that's 41. No, that's 41% of under 30s.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Oh, 41% of under 30. Okay, that's 41%, you're right. 41%.

[Torre]

Tremendous amount of agreement.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Totally set. Total 70. 41% under the age of 30. 30 to 39 yield. That applies.

[Torre]

Not 17. It's not 17. I'll tell you that right now. In the real world, it's not 17%.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Well, that's what they put out there. Way more than that. That's what they put out there. But I got it. Just for the purposes of this discussion, we'll go with that for the moment. All I'm trying to say to you is this. I don't disagree with your preference. I'm for that. But in the same breath, what I'm saying is, considering the time and the divisive times that we live in, you don't think it's dangerous for people to be out there applauding somebody being murdered. Now, I understand that you're saying that they're not necessarily applauding that it's the system taking advantage of the little guy. You're a health insurance agency. You're corporate America, and you're abusing the American citizen. I got that part. Shit, I'm one of them. My point to you is this. I still can't sit up there when I see a man get shot in the back, gunned down and gunned down in the Streets shot in the back, murdered wife's a widower, children no longer a father, and think that that's a cause for celebration. I'm saying, is there not something to be concerned about that in our society?

[Torre]

I think that you are not yet understanding the moral stakes that we're actually seeing. Let's say you saw somebody murder a serial killer. Would you say, oh, my God, he was a son and a father?

[Stephen A. Smith]

No.

[Torre]

You'd say, thank God somebody took him off the earth.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Right?

[Torre]

There is no serial killer that you could name who is responsible for more deaths than United Health Care. So now Luigi took it on himself to bring pain to the head of United Health Care because he saw them as serial killers. And if you see them as legalized serial killers, which they are allowed to betray their customers to make a buck, well, then the moral stakes are completely different. He didn't just murder a person walking down the street. He murdered the tip of the spear to send a message to the entire industry.

[Stephen A. Smith]

And so you're okay with that? What if the mindset is, that's just the first one. What about the people that had, you know, posters out there with the faces and names of other healthcare CEOs, and they had Brian Thompson face on there with an X over it, like one down and these others to go. Is that okay?

[Torre]

What's not okay is for the conversation to become about the rage that we have towards CEOs, as if that is the central part of the conversation. The central part of the conversation is how the healthcare industry is allowed to betray its customers and allow them to die and be in pain and be sick so that they can make a buck. We need far greater regulation on the health care system. That is the core issue in this conversation. And if we miss that, then we miss an opportunity to make change in an incredibly important industry in our country.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Well, first of all, let me say this. I completely agree with you. That's an issue that we shouldn't miss. I'm not arguing with that. I'm just talking about the danger that exists from the other side. Because, listen, health care is one issue. There's plenty of things that we can look at in the system that exists within the United States where regulations need to be altered to some degree, things need to be addressed. The system continuously takes advantage of the American citizen, et cetera, et cetera. There's an abundance of things that we can look at. But our answer to it, if it's going to be violence, and that's okay, what kind of society does that say that does it say that we have waiting down the pipe for us?

[Torre]

We're not saying that we live in a civilized or peaceful American society. Right? We are awash in guns and violence. We just had a female school shooter. Like, we're breaking new grounds. We have DEI in school shooting now. Like, we have school shooters that are constant. We have all kinds of violence. Don't get me even started on state sponsored violence. The police and the military and the sort of things that we're allowed. I mean, we are constantly dealing with things in a violent way. So we are not a peaceful or civilized society by any stretch. Obviously, I do not think that everybody should handle their disagreement with the healthcare industry in this way. But this conversation cannot devolve into that young man should not have killed somebody. Obviously he should not have killed somebody.

[Stephen A. Smith]

But.

[Torre]

But even more important, the healthcare industry must be reined in and the way that it is allowed to behave legally in a completely immoral way, that is the core of this conversation.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Completely immoral way. So in other words, in the society that we're living in right now, when you're trying and listen, I agree with you. The way you broke it down, I agree with you. There's no disagreement here. I'm just making the argument that could be an issue. No matter where you turn to. You're isolating the issue of health care because obviously that's a very profound thing. One's health, obviously your livelihood, your quality of life, et cetera, et cetera, it's all affected by your health. I don't give a damn how much money you have. If your health ain't good, you ain't good. You can't enjoy the fruits of your labor. I understand that part, but other people with that mindset, it might translate to anything far removed from health care just because they feel like they're getting taken advantage of by the system. That may be a cause for them to engage in such heinous acts. And we can't ignore that either.

[Torre]

Don't focus in this conversation. Don't just focus on Luigi did X. Oh my God, what does that mean to society? Okay, There is a reason why he engaged in that. And when you see millions of people across the country celebrating somebody for bringing pain like that to the healthcare industry, you have to say, why is it that so many people agree with his action and are cheering on his action? That's where I am. That's what. That's what I am motivated by. Why are people feeling that way rather than telling them they shouldn't feel that way. I think media has a responsibility to report the truth and to speak truth to power. And when we are reporting the truth, we have to say, why are all these people so happy that this happened? We cannot say you guys should not feel that way. And like when we wag our finger at the people and say you should not feel that way, we are completely missing what is really going on.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I don't think we're missing what's going on. I get your point and I think it's valid. I just think that you're pointing. People like myself, Gayle King and others were pointing to the celebration or the, you know, I'm going to say the celebration, celebration, that kind of vibe that was out there when a person was murdered. And I think that ultimately that's the scary part because it provides justification for such a heinous act. I get what you're saying though. You're not wrong. I'm not trying to say that you're wrong and you are right. As media members, we do need to look into why are people feeling that way. That is just as important as what happened. But I also think that we can't minimize the word celebration in terms of how it came across in the eyes of some people that were disseminating that kind of message to the masses. I'm happy it happened. I don't care that this guy was murdered. This is what UnitedHealthcare CEO was doing. And guess what? If it happens to somebody else, good. That was the attitude. And I don't know if that's good for our society, bro. I just don't.

[Torre]

I mean, there is an anti corporate mood in the country for a reason because our country is shaped by what the wealthy and what the corporations want. There's a very low correlation between what the masses want and what DC does and a very high correlation between what the corporations want and what. And right. And what the court what, what, what D.C. does. People are angry about that. People are angry about this massive wealth gap that we have. People are completely missing the point when they say Brian Thompson came from humble background, which he did. Public school, Iowa farmer, father. But he became part of the extreme wealth class. And did he remember that he came from a working class or lower middle class background when he became extremely wealthy, did he, did he think about that? When people had claims and couldn't pay them and he and couldn't pay for their health care and he refused their claims, did he think about that? I mean, he's not a. The New York Times tried to call him a Workingclass hero. He is a workingclass traitor. Like we need to talk about that.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I don't recall anybody calling him a working class hero. That's news to me. I missed that one.

[Torre]

Brett Stevens at the New York Times.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I missed that one.

[Torre]

Brett Stevens. Brett Stevens, New York Times.

[Stephen A. Smith]

All right. That's one individual of the New York Times. Everybody's got their opinion. I get that part, Torre. I appreciate it, man. Listen, I can't argue your point. You're absolutely right. Especially me being in the media along with the rest of us. You are absolutely right that there should be a spotlight placed on the dissent that people feel, the disgust that people feel as to why this stuff happened. Getting to the bigger issue about really, really being against corporate America and what it's done to the American citizens, particularly with the new administration cause coming into office and what people are anticipating may happen for those, you know, for the wealthy amongst us. You're absolutely right. There's no doubt about that. So I can't knock it. I was just saying, look, you're out in the streets, you know, a dude got murdered. Now that ain't a reason to celebrate. That's all I was trying to say. But I got your point. I got your point. And I've been in a situation, as you have, where most of our life, we find a situation where corporate America hasn't been there for us at all. We didn't go out and shoot anybody. That's all I'm saying. That's all I'm saying. I get your point. You're not wrong. You're not wrong. I'm just saying we don't go out there and shoot somebody in the back and gun them down. That's not.

[Torre]

I, you know, look, I don't know. I don't know where you got in the back. I haven't seen the full footage. I don't think it was in the back. I don't know why. I don't know why we keep going back to the.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Well, I guess, I guess where he.

[Torre]

Was when he got shot.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Soon, I'm only assuming that because. Because I saw him pointing a gun at him while a guy was walking and his back was turned and I saw a report that said, no, I.

[Torre]

Know, but I don't think that that batters. As far as the relationship to the healthcare industry and the way that all these people feel, I've never seen in my life such a stark divide between the way the media class is discussing something and the way the people feel. And we saw such a stark divide that I felt I had to speak about it on social media. And, you know, with folks like you to be like, you know, y'all, y'all, y'all need to understand. Because when it was maga, when MAGA rose up, media said, we need to understand who these people are. Right. We also wagged our finger at them, but we went to their coffee shops to try to figure out who they are. And right now, as millions of people are cheering Luigi on, we need to go into their coffee shops and figure out who they are, why they feel that way.

[Stephen A. Smith]

So let the audience know where you're going to be talking about this further, because I know you ain't going to get off this subject.

[Torre]

I mean, you know, you can catch me on rap Latte on YouTube. I'm on my TikTok Toure show. We're going to talk about on my podcast torre show. And you know, I'll be back here with Stephen A. Smith next week.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I appreciate you, man. Thanks a lot, bro. Thanks a lot. So much.

[Torre]

Thanks, brother.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Appreciate the education. Thanks a lot. All right, man.

[Torre]

Thank you.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Foreign.

[Greg Rosenthal]

What'S up, everyone? It's Greg Rosenthal, and I'm teaming up with the king of spring, Daniel Jeremiah. He requires me to say that we're going to be bringing you 40s and free agents, the only podcast you'll need this NFL draft season. From DJs mock drafts to my top 101, free agents will have it covered for you with all new episodes every Thursday keeping you up to date as we head to the NFL draft list. Listen to 40s and free agents starting on March 6th on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Julie Swearbinks]

What's up, everyone? Julie Swearbinks here along with former NHL player Nate Thompson.

[Torre]

We're doing a new podcast together. Here we go.

[Julie Swearbinks]

The name Energy Line with Nate and jsb.

[Torre]

Each week we'll get together and talk about hockey life. All topics are fair game, right?

[Julie Swearbinks]

Exactly. And you'll never know who will drop by to join us.

[Torre]

Julie is pretty well connected. She has text threads going that you wouldn't believe.

[Julie Swearbinks]

Listen to Energy Line with Nate and jsb on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.