MORE MONEY FOR WAR, NEW JERSEY VOTING ERROR; TUCKER CARLSON

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Straight Shooter with Stephen A.

Episode: "More Money for War, New Jersey Voting Error; Tucker Carlson"

Host: Stephen A. Smith
Guest: Tucker Carlson
Date: July 23, 2026

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Overview

In this dynamic and controversial episode of Straight Shooter, Stephen A. Smith pivots from his sports roots to dive deep into American politics and global affairs—focusing on election integrity issues in New Jersey, escalating war spending in Iran, and a headline-grabbing interview with former Fox News host and ex-Trump supporter, Tucker Carlson.

Stephen A. sets the stage with pointed commentary on government missteps, and then hosts a no-holds-barred dialogue with Carlson, tackling topics from U.S. foreign policy and the Iran/Israel war, to accusations of genocide, political polarization, race, and American leadership. The episode closes with candid listener reactions, sparking further debate on the episode’s heated subjects.

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Key Discussion Points & Timestamps

1. New Jersey Voting Error & The SAVE Act Debate

[00:59 – 13:20]

• Election Software Glitch: New Jersey discovered a glitch that erroneously registered about 6,600 non-citizens to vote; fewer than 400 actually voted.

• Political Impact: Stephen A. laments this fuels President Trump’s claims of mass voter fraud, despite data showing such cases are rare:

  “This is the kind of stuff that gives the President fuel for the excessive nonsense... to distract us from the $37.5 billion he already has spent on a war in Iran that shouldn't be taking place.” (Stephen A., 01:21)

• SAVE Act Overview:

  • Would require documentary proof of U.S. citizenship plus photo ID for federal elections.
  • Supporters claim it prevents fraud; opponents argue it risks disenfranchising millions.
  • Stephen A. critiques both the Democratic and Republican positions:

    “The President and the Republicans asking for the SAVE Act to be passed is not something I can definitively say I have a huge, huge problem with... I don't think it's absurd to ask people to show their ID to vote.” (Stephen A., 07:32)

• Distraction From Larger Issues: Consistently reframes the voting error as a distraction from misplaced priorities—namely, massive war spending and neglect of pressing domestic concerns:

  “Every measure... is a distraction for what's going on with Iran... But when you make a mistake like Mikey Sheryl, the governor of New Jersey admitted... it just highlights the latest problem.” (Stephen A., 12:11)

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2. U.S. War Spending & The Iran/Israel Conflict

[00:59 – 13:20, 15:29 – 24:18]

• Escalating Costs:

  • $37.5 billion already spent on the Iran war.
  • $67 billion more requested, totaling over $104 billion if approved.
  • Contrasts this with recent past when the government balked at spending $2 billion on TSA workers.

• Budget Dynamics:

  • Describes how military spending takes precedence over domestic needs (“$1.5 trillion spent, all on war”), and criticizes both parties for their role in perpetuating it.

• Tucker Carlson’s Outrage:

  • Formerly a staunch Trump supporter, Carlson explains his dramatic break from the President, blaming Trump’s “regime change war” in Iran as “the most disastrous decision any American president has made in my lifetime.” (15:29)

  • Accuses Trump of being “controlled by another country”, pointing directly at Israel as orchestrating policy decisions:

    “He wasn't able to make an independent decision. He's controlled by another country. But I disapprove of it, and I'm outraged on behalf of my country...” (Carlson, 16:16)

• Accountability & Disillusionment:

  • Stephen A. presses Carlson, challenging his assertions about U.S.-Israel relations and questioning the narrative of foreign control.

  • Carlson maintains the war was led by Israeli interests and enabled by outside donors/media moguls (naming Miriam Adelson, Rupert Murdoch):

    “...no one inside the White House was like... you've got a regime change Iran. I think it came from outside—outside advisors and donors.” (Carlson, 32:01)

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3. Gaza War, Accusations of Genocide, and U.S. Policy

[24:18 – 31:45]

• Carlson’s Claims:
  • Criticizes Israel’s war in Gaza as "genocide" and “systematic effort... to eliminate a people."
  • Cites statements by Netanyahu and Israeli ministers, referencing Old Testament language.
  • Frames U.S. support as funding and abetting this, comparing U.S.-Israeli cooperation to “the group committing genocide in the Middle East.” (Carlson, 20:25)
• Rebuttal & Clarification:
  • Stephen A. distinguishes government actions from the global Jewish community, raising the nuance between criticism of Israel and antisemitism.
• Media, Censorship, Intimidation:
  • Carlson describes a climate of fear and media intimidation around criticizing Israel, noting his own reserve on the issue for decades.

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4. Tucker’s Political Evolution and Disillusionment

[33:39 – 38:03]

• On Supporting, Then Breaking With Trump:

  • Admits to “many pivots,” and evolving perspectives, but describes witnessing first-hand what he sees as a “total betrayal” by Trump post-Butler assassination attempt.

  • Suggests Trump changed after that shooting, changed direction, and shut down related investigations:

    “He started assembling his transition team. ...these people are like, wait a second, why would we appoint John Ratcliffe to CIA when he’s the opposite of what you’re running on? ...I think this whole thing’s been in progress for a long time.” (Carlson, 35:49)

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5. Race, American Identity, and Economic Inequality

[57:02 – 71:38]

• American Nationalism and Race:

  • Stephen A. confronts Carlson on white nationalism accusations, America-first ideology, and how his vision resonates (or doesn’t) with minority communities.

  • Carlson defends nationalism, decries race-based policies (affirmative action/quotas), and argues discrimination is “always wrong, no matter who commits it.” (Carlson, 65:47)

  • Discusses historical injustices, head starts and contemporary policies, suggesting the real crisis is economic, not racial:

    “...it’s not about race. We should treat all American citizens equally. That's the whole point of the civil rights movement. That's the whole point of the Constitution. And we're not, and we should...” (Carlson, 71:11)

  • Stephen A. pushes for nuance, citing persistent systemic inequities, challenging Carlson’s attribution of current disparities solely to the past or to economic structure.

• Memorable Exchange:

  • Stephen A.:

    “I’m simply pointing out that again, if the objective is to have a fair and equitable society for all, how is that supposed to be accomplished if folks are operating from behind the eight ball...?” (66:14)

  • Carlson:

    “I think it’s really important to articulate why racial discrimination is bad. It’s bad no matter who commits it. Period.” (66:00)

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6. Messages of Hope, Leadership, and Life Beyond Politics

[48:17 – 52:11]

• Diminished Faith in Political Solutions:

  • Carlson calls the current field of candidates a “Waltz of the Pygmies” (“None of those people is going to save this country or make your life better”). (Carlson, 48:17)

  • Advocates for “love and concern” as leadership requirements, not ideology:

    “All I want is to see that someone cares. And most people I know feel that way... I don’t know the right answer, but I know you don’t care at all about finding it.” (Carlson, 58:51)

• On Hope and Agency:

  • Carlson reflects on the limited power of any president and stresses that personal fulfillment and societal progress must come from individual and local action—“Love your wife more. Be kinder to the people who work for you...”
  • Stephen A. folds this back into the show’s theme: “Politics doesn’t touch everything, and those things... are what happens after you die... the love between me and my wife. You know what I mean? ...like, some things, politics doesn’t touch and will never touch.”

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7. Listener Calls: Reactions, Critique, and Debate

[73:28 – end]

• Range of Feedback:

  • Calls criticize and praise Stephen A. for his handling of Carlson, question Carlson’s data on white income, push Stephen A. on interview tactics, and vent on race, Israel/Gaza, and political hypocrisy.
  • Listeners from Jewish and Black communities voice particular outrage at Carlson’s “genocide” language and his framing of American race relations.
  • Stephen A. maintains transparency, corrects data in real time (e.g., white households’ net worth), emphasizes platforming opposing views for public record rather than endorsement, and repeatedly fact-checks on-air.

  “I'm not here to disagree with you on that... they've [politicians] haven't solved it in decades. So you're absolutely right…” (Stephen A., 79:23)

  “I'm not supporting them, nor am I platforming anybody. I talk to everybody and I give them an opportunity to state for the record answers to questions that people want to know.” (Stephen A., 81:54)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• Stephen A. Smith:
  • “The Democrats — they'll mess up a wet dream if you let them. They'll mess up a wet dream with Trump messing up every damn day.” (12:53)
  • “You can’t talk about the economy, inflation, or crime—he doesn’t have anything to talk about but the SAVE Act, because he’s got us in a war we don’t need to be in…” (91:10)
• Tucker Carlson:
  • “He wasn't able to make an independent decision. He's controlled by another country. But I disapprove of it, and I'm outraged on behalf of my country...” (16:16)
  • “If you’re committing genocide, which Israel currently is in Gaza... there’s no debate about whether it’s genocide.” (25:16)
  • “None of those people is going to save this country or make your life better. I mean, honestly, let’s be real.” (48:20)
  • “It would be like saying... [children of Holocaust survivors] have a right to be upset about that. Okay, got it. But those same people are committing genocide... it’s just wrong. There are universal principles that if we don’t defend, we will wind up in the world that we left when we started this country.” (67:22)

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Notable Segments & Timestamps

• Voting Error & SAVE Act analysis: 00:59 – 13:20
• Carlson on Trump and the Iran/Israel war: 15:29 – 26:43
• Genocide accusations & U.S.-Israel policy: 25:05 – 32:03
• Carlson’s break with Trump and outside influence: 32:03 – 38:03
• American race, inequality, and economic critique: 57:02 – 71:38
• Candid listener reactions and fact-checking: 73:28 – end

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Tone & Style

Stephen A. brings his signature blend of sharp, direct, and witty commentary. The episode oscillates between serious, passionate analysis and moments of humor or incredulity—whether fact-checking a guest or sparring with callers. Carlson is combative, rhetorical, and at times provocative, especially on U.S. foreign policy and Israel.

Calls after the interview provide catharsis, fact correction, and a cross-section of public sentiment, welcoming both criticism of Carlson and of Stephen A.'s own approach.

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Final Thoughts

Stephen A. Smith’s Straight Shooter lives up to its name in this episode—a raw, unfiltered debate on the biggest political and international stories of the week. The conversation with Tucker Carlson is as polarizing and headline-worthy as promised, surfacing major flashpoints in today’s public discourse: election integrity, endless war, loyalty and independence in U.S. foreign policy, enduring problems of race and class, and the search for true accountability in leadership.

Listeners are left with no pat answers, but an invitation to keep questioning—and a vivid sense of just how high the stakes have become.

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Transcript

[Stephen A. Smith]

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[Commercial Announcer]

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[Tucker Carlson]

Bonjour.

[Caller/Listener]

Bonjour.

[Commercial Announcer]

I'm traveling with my Wells Fargo Autograph Journey card. So I earn rewards wherever I book. Travel five times points with hotels, four times with airlines, restaurants and other travel and one point on other purchases. Phew, that was a lot. I need to lie down. Is the room ready?

[Stephen A. Smith]

Visit Wells Fargo.com autographjourney Terms apply straight

[Tucker Carlson]

Shooter with Stephen A.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Always a reason to be disgusted when it comes to politics. And this is the latest, one new story coming out of New Jersey. New Jersey removes non citizens, non citizens from voter rolls after finding a software glitch. Welcome to the latest edition of Straight Shooter with yours truly, Stephen A. Coming at you, as I love to do, every Wednesday night from 6 to 8pm Eastern Standard Time over the airwaves of SiriusXM POTUS radio channel 124. Number to call up, as always, is 86696, Botus. That's 86696, Potus. See, when you do stuff like this, this is the kind of stuff, when you allow stuff like this to happen, rather, this is the kind of stuff that gives the President fuel for the excessive nonsense that he's apt to engage in just to stir his base. Remember, ladies and gentlemen, he's kept his promise in terms of closing the borders. So because of that, he needs a new issue to be fixated on to distract us from the 37 and a half billion dollars he already has spent on a war in Iran that shouldn't be taking place. And this additional 67 billion Pete Hegseth, the Secretary of War, is asking for on Capitol Hill. And if he gets it, you're talking about 104 and a half billion dollars that would have been spent or scheduled to be spent on a war that shouldn't be taking place. Keep in mind, we're just months removed from them not having $2 billion to give to TSA workers over a 30 day period where American citizens were going to work every day, forced to go to work every day, and we're not getting paid. Now you're talking about one and a half trillion dollars being spent. You're talking about 104 billion being spent on a war. And this is the kind of stuff that we're dealing with right now. And so when I look at it and I see a story like this emanating out of New Jersey, I get a bit disgusted. I truly do. We've got Governor Mike Cheryl, who ordered the removal of self identified non citizens erroneously added to voter rolls after a software error led to some 6,600 people being incorrectly registered. What's the big picture? Fewer than 400 people who were registered because of the error actually voted. But the incident could fuel President Trump's unsupported claims of mass voter fraud that critics say threaten to undermine trust in elections. I'm reading from Axios as we speak. Cheryl said there was no evidence at this time that any elections were swayed by the incident. Keep in mind this took place between June of 2023 and June of 2024, which was before CH was sworn in. Which means all of these problems happened under Democratic Gov. Phil Murphy. But no matter which way you slice it, when you look at it, it adds fodder to the fuel that Trump is trying, trying is trying to use to ignite his base and to get everybody on board. And it just had me saying to myself, you know what, let's cut the nonsense. Let's really, really get down to the nitty gritty and ask ourselves, we why the hell is this SAVE act so damn important? Because when you look at the SAVE act and the kind of things that it will require, it will require documentary proof of US citizenship, such as a passport or birth certificate paired with a photo ID to register or update voter registration for federal elections. It would also require photo identification to vote. Supporters argue it ensures all only eligible citizens vote and strengthens election integrity. Opponents contend non citizen voting is already illegal and rare, according to election audits and studies they cite. While the new requirements could create barriers for millions of eligible voters, citizens rather, who lack ready access to the specified documents. House Republicans, backed by Trump, of course, and many conservatives, have passed the bill multiple times and are now exposed, exploring ways to advance portions of it through a budget reconciliation package, potentially allowing some provisions to move with a simple Senate majority rather than a chamber's usual 60 vote threshold. We know what the deal is, so I said let's put it where the goats can get it. If you are an opponent of this, do the Democrats have legitimate argument? Some would say yes. Disenfranchisement risk, of course. Studies show proof of citizenship rules can block eligible citizens, especially married women with name changes, rural low income voters, minorities who lack easy access to passports, birth certificates, et cetera, far more than a rare non citizen cases. Another issue, non citizen voting is already illegal and rare. Audits consistently find it vanishingly small. 0.02% with no proven widespread impact. They talk about practical barriers, ends, easy online and mail registration burdens election officers. I certainly don't agree that mail in voting should come to an end, so I'm with the Democrats on that one Last but not least, Republican fixation beyond Trump strong public support for election integrity. Polls 7 to 80% believe current systems have vulnerabilities, DMV errors, lax enforcement, etc long term goal to standardized rules and deter fraud and a high trust system. Listen, everywhere I go I have to show id. They ask me for my ID all the time. I go to the airport, they have id. I went to the airport before I went to Wimbledon. I had my passport and my ID and damn near couldn't leave because I had to fill out something online. I thought it was a bit excessive. To me this is not excessive. So on its face, the President and the Republicans asking for the SAVE act to be passed is not something I can definitively say I have a huge, huge problem with. I don't think it's absurd to ask people to show their ID to vote. I don't think it's absurd. I understand the difficulties, but when you consider our voting system and you're talking about voter integrity and that has become an issue, although fomented and instigated significantly by President Trump who's a sore losing ass person and can't accept when he loses and always denies, denies, denies, just like my buddy Bill Ma said on numerous occasions, he ain't accepting the loss. He'll fabricate, he'll do anything he can to make noise. In the end, the point is, whatever loopholes need to be closed, close them. I get it, I get it and I understand it. But my bigger issue at this particular moment in time that has really raked my damn nerves to no end is that I know that this is a distraction. Every measure or by him and the Democrats just handed him a latest gift because any kind of flaw that you show puts on display the fact that the system is not flawless, which gives them an opportunity to capitalize off of that to justify all the noise he's making about the SAVE act and how it needs to be passed and as a result setting the stage that when the Republicans lose the midterms, damn it, it's got to be because of election fraud, which just discombobulates everything, further polarizes our country, which he clearly doesn't care about. He does not care about polarization. He doesn't care about the fact that we're not galvanized. He doesn't care about anything but what he wants. And I've tried to be reasonable and I'm trying to be reasonable now. I don't think the SAVE act in some of the stipulations, not all of them, but I don't think some of the stipulations that they're asking for in a SAVE act is that far fetched. I do think that if the Democrats had their druthers, particularly sitting out here in the state of California, that these folks, if they could get away with it, would let illegals vote in California. Hell yes. Now you don't see it in federal elections and we get in the statewide elections, but do you see it in school board situations or hear about it? Sure you do think something happened a couple of years ago or so in San Francisco. But the point that I'm making to you is this. There are bigger issues going on, bigger issues that highlight whether it's the ineptitude or the negligence of our president and his administration, especially when it comes to Iran and a war that seems endless and seems unwinnable. That with we've already spent 37.5 billion. This is after Pete Hegster said it was only going to cost us 29 billion. So now it's cost 8 billion more than he originally stated it would cost in May. It's costing the average household in America $1,000 more in fuel, in food, except etc. And on top of it all now here they come asking for an additional $67 billion. That is what's going on. And instead of us being able to focus on that and how ill advised it appears this war with Iran is, how ill prepared we seem to have been in getting ourselves involved in this. Instead of focusing on that, they're trying to get us focused on the SAVE Act. House adopted a Republican only 95 billion dollar budget proposal Wednesday. The vote tally was 216 to 214 with all Democrats opposed. Democrats argued the money should be spent at home, particularly on efforts to lower cost for Americans. That's very vague and very general. I'm not buying it. 60 billion for the Pentagon, 13 billion for other national security needs. 12 billion for farmers struggling under tariffs. 10 billion for voting law changes aligned with the SAVE Act. America Save America act and proof of citizenship requirements and faces uncertainty in the Senate. No date for the Senate in regards to that. All of this is a distraction. It's a distraction for what's going on with Iran. It's a distraction for what's going on with that war. But when you make a mistake like Mikey Sheryl, the governor of New Jersey admitted, which happened before she was the governor, by the way, it was during Phil Murphy's administration. That just highlights the latest problem. Didn't I tell y' all last week the Democrats can mess it up. Everybody, ladies and gentlemen, I must put it where the ghost could get. And I'm gonna say it plain to you, the Democrats, they'll mess up a wet dream if you let them. They'll mess up a wet dream with Trump messing up every damn day. Look what they do, save acts. Gotta be looked at now. Gotta be. But that's just my opinion. I got bigger fist to fry right now. I interviewed him earlier. I'm about to air it right now. A very lengthy interview with a former Trump supporter, so much so that he campaigned for Trump and he has now completely turned against the president, essentially accusing him of trading, you know, of betraying rather this country. I'm talking about the one and only Tucker Carlson. He's up next to talk about your president, this administration, the war in Iran, Israel and Lord knows what else. He's Tucker Carlson after all. I am not responsible for Tucker, the words that come out of this man's mouth. I'm just here to ask questions. And Lord, did he answer. STEPHEN A. With Tucker Carlson up next on Straight shooter. Don't go away.

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[Stephen A. Smith]

It's been a long time coming. He's wanted me on his show. I wanted him on my show. And finally I got him, which means I'm in danger because I owe him a guest appearance myself, himself. But he's a former Fox News host, a prominent far right pundit and once a staunch supporter of President Donald Trump, but no longer. Since leaving Fox News in 2023, he's launched an opponent's talk show and just recently announced his departure from the Republican Party. Please welcome for the first time the Straight Shooter with yours truly, the one and only Tucker Carlson. Tucker Carlson, how you doing, man? How's everything.

[Tucker Carlson]

Well, I'm as far right as ever. Who writes this crap? Far right? What is far right anyway?

[Stephen A. Smith]

Well, you tell me. You tell me. What, what, what would it be? What would have been.

[Tucker Carlson]

I have no idea.

[Stephen A. Smith]

It means not appropriate. What would have been the appropriate introduction for Tucker Car.

[Tucker Carlson]

Cultivated, handsome, erudite, irresistibly appealing to women and men in a platonic way. Just stuff like that. Normal stuff.

[Stephen A. Smith]

So you really expect, you really expect a dude to introduce you like this? Stop that. Stop that. Well, no, no, but without.

[Tucker Carlson]

Look, that you're not attracted to me physically, but you see the appeal that others are so obviously taken by.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I will go with that for now. We'll go with that for now. Let's, let's get. Let's get right to it. Tucker Carlson, I mean, you've spoken out. You know, once upon a time, you supported the president. That is no longer the case. Not to be redundant, but remind our audience why you don't seem to be as supportive of President Trump as you once were.

[Tucker Carlson]

Well, I supported him. Not only supported him, I campaigned with him and for him and spoke at the Republican National Convention and knew him for 20 years. And I defended him at Fox, you know, for my entire time there. And I got along with him really well until about 20 minutes ago, actually, until February 28th, when he launched a regime change war on behalf of Israel, with Israel, on Iran, a war that every person who was paying attention knew could not be won and that would only damage the United States. And I told him that repeatedly before he did it. And it wasn't, from my perspective, just a mistake. It was like the end of an entire moment in world history where the United States has enough power to influence events. That's all done, I think, because of this. And I think it's going to dramatically affect the standard of living in the United States and in Western Europe, which I care about. I think it's the most disastrous decision any American president has made in my lifetime. And nothing comes close. So, you know, it's not that I hate Trump as a person. I feel sorry for Trump. He wasn't able to make an independent decision. He's controlled by another country. But I disapprove of it, and I'm outraged on behalf of my country, which is the United States.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Well, Tucker, why does it have to be that he's controlled by another country? Why can't.

[Tucker Carlson]

Well, it doesn't have to be that way. It shouldn't be that way.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Let me explain.

[Tucker Carlson]

Let me. Never be controlled by another country.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Just Let me ask the question. Just let me ask a question.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yeah.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Why does it have to be that? As opposed to he genuinely feels this way and this is the decision that he made and it's just something that you don't agree with, as opposed to him being controlled by another country.

[Tucker Carlson]

Well, I would like that to be true. It's not true. And there are a lot of people demanding that. I claim that's true, but I was there and that's not true. It's a fact that he followed Israel into this war. He said it himself, and so did the Secretary of State. And there's this frantic effort to buy agents of Israel to rewrite history and make us forget what, what, what just happened in February, which was the United States following the lead of Israel into a war that gravely harms the United States. That's just, that's what happened. Trump was not for this. I talked to him a lot about it. He made no case to the American public, demonstrating that he was for it. He said, well, I don't want Iran to have a nuclear program. Okay, that's fair, I guess. I don't really care. But he cared. And then in June, last June, he said he eliminated the nuclear program. And then six months later, he's like, we have to go to war. We have to kill the leader of Shia Islam because of the nuclear. It didn't make any sense. He followed Israel into this. He did this under pressure from Israel. They chose, when it started, they chose the parameters of the war. And critically, they were our partner in the war. Like literally went into this war with Israel. I'm not saying that because I'm a bigot or an anti Semite or a Nazi. I'm saying this because that's what the US Government told us. So there has been this effort to lie about what just happened. And I've seen this a lot. I saw it with 9, 11, I saw it with the Iraq war. And I'm just not going to play along again because I was there, I know what happened.

[Stephen A. Smith]

So my question would be this. He's the leader of the free world. Why does he need to follow anybody? Why is another country leading us as opposed to it being the other way around? Well, how do you explain that?

[Tucker Carlson]

Dude, you tell me. I don't have the answer. I said this to him directly. I said, I said this to him during the 12 day war in last June, you know, which Israel started. And we didn't benefit from it, obviously. We went to war again. That was the beginning of the regime change. War that they planned and wanted for their own reasons that had nothing to do with our strategic goals or our interests at all. It only hurt the United States. It killed a bunch of Americans. It's going to drive us out of the region, destroyed all of our bases on the Gulf. It's a disaster. So I told him at the time, you are being led around by the nose by Netanyahu, and everyone can see it. And, you know, he didn't like to hear that, but it was a fact, and it remains.

[Stephen A. Smith]

What did he say to you when you died, when you said that to him, when you said those words that you just said? What did he say to you? What did you say to him? What did he say to you in response?

[Tucker Carlson]

I think. I think you know Trump, so you can picture the scene.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Yes.

[Tucker Carlson]

Trump hates confrontation, direct confrontation, hates it. Can't deal with it at all. He likes everyone to get along. He likes to tell jokes. And I like this about him. I'm not criticizing it at all. He said, oh, no, it's going to be totally fine. That's not true. And it's fine. It's going to be great. It's going to be great. And then he had someone else call and say that he was offended by it, which I understand. You know, I shouldn't have said that. I was. I snapped. I was so frustrated. This is embarrassing. I'm an American. Whatever you think of this country, which has treated me very well, and, you know, my family's been here forever, I like America. I live here. My kids live here. This hurts America. And I don't like to see the United States humiliated because it's my country, and that's humiliating. Why are you taking orders from a country of 9 million people with no resources? And I'm not even attacking Israel. I'm attacking our leaders, who today in the US Congress, right now, as we're talking, are voting to merge the US Military with the idf, the Israeli Defense Force, the group committing genocide in the Middle East.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Like, and why would. And why would we be doing that? Why would we be merging with the idf? Why would.

[Tucker Carlson]

What would be totally bonkers. I'll tell you why we're not doing it, is because, like, the overwhelming majority of Americans want it. They don't. Who would want that? What's the upside for us? We're doing it because Israel wants it. And Israel controls our politics through campaign donations, at least. And maybe there are other ways that it controls our politics, but there's no debate about it now. This is not an anti Comedic Semitic conspiracy theory. They. My whole life, I've watched this, my whole life, I've said nothing about it. And in a lot of ways, I was intimidated by the claim that anyone who notices is an anti Semite. Well, I'm not an anti Semite. I'm never going to be an anti Semite. I abhor anti Semitism and all forms of racism, no matter what they say. I just. I'm not for it. So I'm. That's not my motive. My motive is it's true. And trying to bully me into saying it's not true is not going to work. Why is it happening? I don't know. And I've said this a million times in public, and I really think we need a national conversation about why the President of the United States not just hurt his country, but hurt himself and his legacy and his party and everything that he worked all these years to build, trying to stay out of prison and almost murdered by a gunman and Butler. All the drama that he went through, all thrown away because now he's the president that led us into a war that we cannot win. We cannot win the war. And by the way, if we can win the war, tell me how. Is there a military means by which we open the Strait of Hormuz?

[Caller/Listener]

No.

[Tucker Carlson]

And if there was, we wouldn't be.

[Stephen A. Smith]

What about the. What about the notion. What about the notion that you're keeping Iran from capturing a nuclear weapon? That would be their argument. That's what they would say. That's what he's been saying. That's what his supporters have been saying. Iran. Remember? He told us, you're absolutely right. Initially, they bombed him last June, and they talked about, we've obliterated them, we're good. And then a few months later, he bombs them again because supposedly they're a month away from having a nuclear weapon, and we have to stop that at all costs. Even now, they'll say, you don't want Iran to. To capture a nuclear weapon. There's plenty of conservatives walking around throughout the country that don't know things nearly as intimately as you do. And that's the excuse that they use. Well, we've got to keep Iran from capturing a nuclear weapon. That's why Trump is doing what he's doing. What do you say to that?

[Tucker Carlson]

I mean, it's sad and insulting, and no one who thinks about it for more than three minutes believes it. If there was ever a time when Iran has to get a nuclear weapon is now, because we just proved what happens when you don't have a nuclear weapon. When you have a nuclear weapon and you're North Korea, Stalinist slave state, we leave you alone. No one's arguing for an invasion of North Korea on the basis of human rights. You know, they're mean to their people, they throw them in concentration camps. They don't have free speech, they don't have democracy. We need to invade. No one's saying that because Iran, because North Korea, unlike Iran, has nuclear weapons. So you can't be messed with when you have nuclear weapons. So what's the incentive for every nation on the freaking planet is to get nuclear weapons as soon as possible or else get regime change by the United States. Nuclear weapons means other countries have to respect you. Therefore, we have just set in motion an irresistible incentive to get nuclear weapons. And Iran will have them. At some point, they'll buy them from Pakistan, which is what North Korea did, or they'll create them on their own. They have the technological know how, obviously. But once you kill the 87 year old religious leader of their religion, once you murder the Shiite Pope, which we did, you ensure that there is a generational conflict that our grandkids are going to have to deal with. We haven't had a lot of terror attacks in the United States, despite what the liars tell you. We haven't. We're separated by an ocean. We've done a pretty good job of not having those. We're going to have them now, and they are a result of what the Trump administration just did at the behest of Israel. So this doesn't make us safer. And anyone who thinks it does, I feel sorry for. You've lost your capacity for thinking independently. But any normal person of any party is like, wait, how does this make us safer? No, this imperils us, it impoverishes us, it diminishes our power, makes us more vulnerable, obviously. And I said this to Trump and he didn't disagree, but he did it anyway.

[Stephen A. Smith]

He didn't disagree, but he did it anyway. You know, I'm going to get back to that. I'm going to get back to the Islamic contingent about it, but I want to go back to the Jewish contingent in this regard. I wanted, because you, you, you made a, made it a point to point out, you, you, you don't engage in anti Semitism, you don't support it, you don't believe it, you don't believe you're a part of it, et cetera, et cetera. When people talk about some of the things that you said I wanted some controversial comments that you've made in regards to the Gaza war. You called Israel's actions genocide, ethnic cleansing, murder of thousands of children, and a land grab. You described it as losing morality, treating Arabs, quote, like animals or sub humans, end quote, and incompatible with Western civilization values. You visited Gaza refugees and highlighted child casual. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that, by the way. But I would ask you.

[Tucker Carlson]

Now, that sounds like Nazi behavior, like worrying about children who are injured.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Exactly. Everything. What are y' all talking about? I'm sorry, go ahead, go ahead. I apologize.

[Tucker Carlson]

It's a slander. Look, if you're committing genocide, which Israel currently is in Gaza, and genocide is, you know, we have an international definition of it, which everyone signed on to up until about 20 minutes until Israel started committing it. And it is the systematic effort by government to eliminate a people. And I don't have to guess about this because Israeli cabinet ministers and the Prime Minister of Israel repeatedly have said that's their goal. They describe the Palestinians as Amalek. I'll refer you to the Old Testament or Hebrew Scriptures, whatever you want to call it, our Bible and theirs, in which Amalek is the Amalekites, and that's the group that God tells the ancient Hebrews to kill all of them, including their children, their babies and their livestock. And the Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, has used this phrase multiple times, not just randomly. Once again and again and again in speeches. And so have his cabinet ministers, the finance minister, the defense minister. They've all said, the point is we have to kill all these people and drive them out. Well, that is the definition of genocide. Don't take my word for it. Israeli human rights groups are calling it genocide. The rest of the world is calling it genocide. The prime Minister has been indicted in international court for genocide. There's no debate about whether it's genocide. The debate is, why are we going along with this and allowing people who are committing genocide to give us moral lectures like, I'm not the criminal for noticing what you're doing, and I'm not going to take a moral lecture from Adolf Eichmann. Why would I? This is crazy. And by the way, future generations will realize that it's crazy. So crazy it's going to be hard to believe it happened.

[Stephen A. Smith]

So what was. How would you answer the question if somebody would have asked, Tucker Carlson, is your issue with the Jewish community, Is it with Israel? Is it specifically with Benjamin Netanyahu? I mean, who's the issue with? Because that's somebody that you, you've described.

[Tucker Carlson]

It's not a mystery. I've said it out loud, by the way. You know, I have. I hate even to go there because it's so low. It's playing their game. But it's also a fact that I have a lot of Jewish friends and Jewish guests on the show making exactly the same points. The idea that the government of Benjamin Netanyahu speaks for all Jews on planet Earth is a lie. It's a lie that's going to do grave damage to Jews. I don't know why people go along with this. If some lunatic stood up, some lunatic white person said, I speak for all whites, I would say, you don't speak for me. If Louis Farrakhan stands up and says, I speak for all black people, I hope you're like, no, not for me. Like, this idea that some politician in a foreign country gets to speak for global Jewry is insane. I'm not playing along with it. But here's the point. They are committing genocide. The lessons that I Learned as I'm 57 as a child growing up in America were really clear. Genocide is always wrong. The Nazis did it. That's why we don't like the Nazis. The, the, the Hutus in Rwanda did it. I mean, the Turks did it, the Ottoman Turks did it against the Armenians. It's always wrong. And the person committing genocide, the. Doesn't get to attack me on moral grounds for pointing it out. This is crazy. And everyone else sees it. Only in the United States are we like, well, are you an anti Semite because you don't like genocide? No, I'm a human being. I'm against it when it was aimed at Jews. I'm against it when Bibi Netanyahu does it. I'm against it when the Hutus do it. I'm just against it because it's immoral. And if we can't say that genocide's immoral, where does that leave us? And why are we paying for this? That's the other thing. It's not just some academic like, are you for genocide? Well, obviously, I'm opposed to. I'm opposed to killing innocents, always. Including bombing girls schools in Iran, as

[Stephen A. Smith]

most decent people should be against killing innocents.

[Tucker Carlson]

All decent people.

[Stephen A. Smith]

But that's right.

[Tucker Carlson]

If you're doing that again, I'm not taking a moral lecture from someone who's committing genocide and none of us should. And through aggression and intimidation, they've scared the living crap out of everyone in the American media, apparently, including you, into this place where it's like, apparently.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Why is it including me?

[Tucker Carlson]

I'll tell you. I'm just asking you why.

[Caller/Listener]

Because.

[Tucker Carlson]

Because the fact. You're asking it. When the facts about what the Israeli government have done in Gaza are transparent, widely known, provable, you can use only Israeli sources for those facts and still arrive at the same conclusion Israelis have arrived at.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Tucker Costa.

[Tucker Carlson]

It's genocide.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Let me put. Let me put you on pause for a second. For one second. When it comes to me, sir, most people in my audience. Most people in my audience may not have heard what you had to say. I want them to hear from you. So I'm just asking. Oh, no, no. Nobody's got me hoodwinked. I'm literally asking because I literally want to hear, like, there's several things that you may have brought up that I may not have heard. I may be hearing you say for the first time because I don't get a chance to watch you all the time. That's all it is.

[Tucker Carlson]

But it's, I want you to know, crazy. No, but it's not just me. I mean, by the way, I should say I spent, like 35 years never saying anything about Israel. Okay? So it's not like I'm some courageous voice who's bringing this to world's attention. This has been going on for a very long time, since 1948 to varying degrees. And for the last three years, it's been going on at a pace that's impossible to ignore. And only in the United States. I just want to say it again. Only in the United States and Israel is this not a majority view widely known by everybody. They've killed tens of thousands of children. They have killed scores of journalists, over 100 journalists. They bombed churches and hospitals. They bombed and destroyed all civilian infrastructure. And they're driving people out and they're saying it. They're saying it out loud.

[Caller/Listener]

What?

[Tucker Carlson]

And because of YouTube, we can actually watch this now. And it's like, oh, there's an Israeli official saying we're going to put them in concentration camps. And it's like, the United States could stop this. It's the only country on the planet that could stop it because we're paying for it. And it's. I'm not even mad at the Israelis. I think they've gone insane. I think they will be punished for what they're doing in the same way the Germans were punished for what they did in exactly the same way, because.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Are you talking about the government? Are you talking about the people? Are you talking about the government?

[Tucker Carlson]

The people I'm talking about. I'll be specific. I'm talking about the government ministers who ordered this. I'm talking about the people who carried it out, the good Israelis who were committing genocide. And in some sense, they're victims as well. And I feel sorry for all of them because you can't lie your way out of 75,000 dead bodies, okay? You just can't. There's no getting around that. You did it. Everyone saw you do it. So they're going to be punished. I'm outraged at American officials for paying for this and for attacking anybody who says, wait a second, why are we paying for genocide? I thought we were against genocide. We've got a Holocaust museum in my town that says genocide is bad. Is it not bad now? And they're like, shut up, Nazi. It's like, no, no, I'm against the Nazis because I'm against genocide. But here you're committing it, so I'm against what you're doing. This is. Yeah.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Is this about just Trump, or is it about specific individuals within his administration that has an alarming level of influence that we need to know about as well?

[Tucker Carlson]

So that's like a question I've thought so much about. In other words, who was pushing Trump to do something?

[Stephen A. Smith]

There you go.

[Tucker Carlson]

Insane.

[Stephen A. Smith]

There you go.

[Tucker Carlson]

Right? And, you know, obviously, Rubio, the Secretary of State, is for it. Obviously. I don't think he was pushing that. I mean, you know, I don't work there, so I was there a lot, but I'm certainly not an employee and never have been, so there's a lot I miss. I don't. I can't really answer the question, but my sense is that no one inside the White House was like, you know, pushing Trump's arm behind his back and saying, you've got a regime change. Iran. I think it came from the outside. I think it came from outside advisors and donors. Miriam Adelson, the widow of Sheldon Adelson, the gambling magnet. I think it came from Rupert Murdoch, the owner of Fox and the Wall Street Journal and New York Post, who called all the time demanding this. I think it was people outside. That's what I think. And I think there might also be other reasons that he did this. Joe Kent, who ran the National Counterterrorism center, said out loud when he resigned, and he would know that he believed the Butler shooting was connected to Trump's move against Iran. Now, look, I can't prove that, but here's one of our top intel officials making that claim. Where's the New York Times following up on that, not one American news organization has made any attempt to find out what the hell this was, because they all support it. They all support it. They support this war. And that's why there has been no mass movement against it. People like, oh, I'm against the war. Really? Well, where are the protests? I remember the Iraq war. I was there, both in Washington and Iraq. There were massive protests. Now, at the time, I was shilling for the Trump administration, I mean, for the Bush administration, be like, no, it's a good idea to invade Iraq. I was completely wrong, and I've been humiliated ever since. But I did notice that the other side had demonstrations. Where are those demonstrations now? There are none, because both parties are in favor of this. That's why.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Tucker Carlson, in 2021, you probably wrote that you hated Trump passionately. You later supported him in 2024. So here's the question. Why should listen to see this latest break as principle rather than another pivot on your side on your part. How do you, how do you answer that?

[Tucker Carlson]

Well, I've had many, many pivots, and I've already explained two of them. You know, I was wrong because I'm wrong a lot. You know, I guess, I mean, I, I flatter myself and say I'm not wrong a lot, but I certainly am wrong sometimes and wrong on big things. I was wrong on Trump, and I was wrong on the Iraq war, and I'm sure a million other things. But anyway, I mean, I don't know what to say. People can judge whether I'm sincere or not. I don't really know what I'm getting out of this, actually. I've gotten really nothing out of any of it. And I'm not going to whine and say I've lost a lot, but some, including friendship. So I don't really know what my motive would be. But if I can't convince people, I can't. But I'm just telling you, I happened to be there and pretty close and saw a lot of stuff that is, like, so bad for this country. It's such a total betrayal. Now, I would just say quickly that, yeah, I got mad at Trump in a private text message which Fox stole from me and sent to the New York Times. Like, that's a whole nother story. Kind of crazy, but. But I wrote that to one of my producers could Trump and made me mad in 2001, right after the election. Okay, I get, you know, I've been mad at people I love, but I decided that Trump was the option to the Republican leadership and the Democratic leadership. He wasn't a Republican. He was a challenge to the Republicans. He came from outside the system. This was how I thought of it. And as they tried to put him in jail and shoot him and all this stuff, I was like, see, it's totally real. You know, it's not a fake thing. I mean, they're trying to put him in jail. That's what I thought. And I still kind of think that. But somewhere along the line after that Butler shooting in Pennsylvania In July of 2024, he changed like, 180 degrees and started doing things that he ran against doing. And so, like, you tell me what that is. I don't know. I don't think Trump's a great actor. I don't think he was lying before. I think he. Something changed him.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Something changed for him after the Butler shooting. You just think.

[Tucker Carlson]

I think it's that simple.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Yeah. And you don't have nothing.

[Tucker Carlson]

I don't know if that's simple.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Okay, but you have.

[Tucker Carlson]

I don't know if anything's simple. Well, I wouldn't tell you what I do know. No, I don't. I just to be clear, I don't know. And if I did, I would say it instantly. I know that Trump shut down the investigation into the Butler shooting. It doesn't make any sense. There's a lot of material that the FBI gathered into Thomas Crooks, who he was talking to on his burner phone, who he was talking to online, who he trained with at the range. They have tape of that. They've not released any of it. And I pushed them really hard. The FBI director, the deputy director, the guy in charge of the investigator. I talked to them all. Why can't we see this information? And they wouldn't answer the question. Turns out Trump told them not to release it, to shut down the investigation. He's a lone gunman. He's dead. We don't need to know anymore. Okay, then why can't I see the information that you gathered? Did he have contact with law enforcement before the shooting? Why can't you answer that question? And instead, they yelled at me and called me names, the Trump people did. And I was like, if that's your response, then I think like, I've got a bunch of kids. And if I say, hey, what are you doing? And they're like, shut up, racist. I'm like, I'm pretty sure you're doing something wrong. Then if you're attacking me for asking, like, that's just a tell and so that's all I know. But I can't think of a non sinister reason for Trump to shut down an investigation into his own attempted murder. Maybe you can, but I can't. I think it's very. I think it's one of the weirdest things I've ever seen in my life. And I know that at that moment he started assembling. Right after that, he started assembling his transition team. And I was really close to that. I knew everyone on it. And all of a sudden these people are like, wait a second, would this guy. Why would we appoint John Ratcliffe to CIA when he's the opposite of what you're running on? Like, John Ratcliffe is the opposite of what you're promising voters. Why would you do that? And I noticed this stuff and I was like, this is very odd, but I didn't kind of put it together because I'm not a genius. And then by the time we got to Iran, I was like, oh, wait a second. I think this whole thing's been in progress for a long time. And the point is not to eliminate Iran's nuclear program. Nobody cares. The point is to reshuffle the deck globally and to diminish the Gulf states, to get the United States out of the Middle East. I think to end the petrodollar, to crush Europe. Like, there are big things going on and the rest of us are so caught up in whatever BS crap the media is putting on here, we don't see it. But I'm just telling you, in five years, it's going to be a different world. I hope a better world, but it's going to be a different world.

[Stephen A. Smith]

You've got a lot of people connected with Israel. You got a lot of people who are, you know, who look at Benjamin Netanyahu and let's just say they don't view him the way that you do. They point to your relationships in the Middle East. They talk about Qatar, they talk about you having a home in Doha, stuff like that. Talk about that for a second. Whatever level of the legitimacy may come attached to those who.

[Tucker Carlson]

I mean, I hate defending myself. I mean, it's just they're. I mean, these are people who are taking money and direction from a foreign government accusing me of the same. And the truth is, I don't have a home in Doha. I don't own anything in Doha. I've never taken money from the Qataris or any other government. I don't even have a bank loan. I have no investors, I have no debt. You Know my opinions. You may not like them, but they're mine because I have no control over me at all. And I own my company with my college roommate. So that's the extent of my financial life. It's. I don't, you know, whatever. But you know what? I would say this.

[Caller/Listener]

Qatar.

[Tucker Carlson]

I love Qatar. I really like Qatar. And the Israelis like Qatar, too, which is why Benjamin Netanyahu asked the Qatari government to send money to Hamas. I'm not guessing. This is. You can look it up. So it was actually Netanyahu who asked Qatar to send money to Hamas. Now they're, like, attacking the Qataris for being a tool of Hamas. The whole thing is so dishonest, I can't deal with it. But even if I were, like, being bribed by Qatar to. I don't know what Qatar bribes people to do. Even if that were true, you'd still have to contend with, like, well, I don't know. Is what he's saying true? Is the Iran war going well? Is it in America's interest? Did the administration say we're following Israel? They did. Is genocide being committed in Gaza? Of course, objectively, the numbers are there. Go on Wikipedia. And so it's like, it doesn't even matter. Yeah, they attack me as a person. I'm a bad person. I'm a Nazi. Okay, well, I'm not at all. But even if I were, it wouldn't change the fact that you're committing genocide. And this war is hurting my country.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Like, right, any. Whether anyone agrees or disagrees with you, I think it was especially me sitting here talking to you. I really, really appreciate the fact that you're willing to tackle any issue, and I'm thankful for that. So thank you for the conversation. Let me. Let me ask you this. Just a few more questions before I let you go. I'm thinking about the Nick Fuentes interview, for example, and I wanted to transition a little bit to this because, you know, I'm wondering about where the line is between exposing extremism and normalizing it. When you have somebody like him that you had on your show, I remember people were criticizing you. I. I didn't watch the interview. I saw, you know, clips of it, but I didn't watch the whole interview in its entirety. And I remember people accusing you of being quite soft on them, even though I can't imagine you being that guy. But that's what they were accusing you of. And they were saying stuff like that. But we know some of the. That people have felt, he said, and some of the positions that he has taken from a generic perspective. Extremism compared to normalization. Where does Tucker Carlson draw that line in the sand, particularly considering the position that you're in now and the kind of influence you wield?

[Tucker Carlson]

I think it's really important not to normalize extremism and to call it out by name and to say, to just frame this correctly, like, what you're saying is crazy and extreme. I think it's super important to say that because otherwise it's like, oh, no, this is normal. And I think one of the most extreme human beings I've ever met in my entire life was Lindsey Graham. And I would say maybe the second most extreme I've ever met is Ted Cruz. Both US Senators, Lindsey Graham unfortunately passed away recently. Ted Cruz still represents Texas. These are people who have called for murdering innocence at scale, bombing people who did nothing wrong, killing kids, and have done that for, like, decades, who have openly called for the US Government and American citizens to be more loyal to a foreign country than to their own, who have called for banning Americans.

[Caller/Listener]

Right.

[Tucker Carlson]

To criticize a foreign country, eliminating free speech on behalf of a foreign nation. You can criticize your own country totally fine. You don't want to criticize a foreign country. That's so crazy that I can hardly believe it's happening and nobody says it. So you'll go and you'll interview Lindsey Graham or I interviewed Ted Cruz last year. And people are like, oh, no one is like, I can't believe you're sitting with that wacko extremist Ted Cruz, who's literally called for murdering people and by the way, has helped murder people. He's United States Senator. He's not a podcaster. He votes for things. He appropriates money. That guy has blood on his hands. The blood of, of countless innocents. But it's totally cool to sit with them. How does that work? I don't understand. Not one person has ever said, I can't believe you sat across from Ted Cruz. He's a murderer. It's true. But we, because we're so calling the Senate.

[Stephen A. Smith]

You're calling a senator brainwashed. Hold on, hold on, Tucker. These are, these are political officials you have known. Just like you've known Trump. You've known a lot of guys on Capitol Hill. You've interviewed a lot of them. You've talked to a lot of them. You used to be on Fox News with your top rated show at 8pm after you succeeded Bill O'Reilly used to talk to these folks all the time. And now Here you are on this show, you're calling, you're calling them a murder. You're calling senator, a guy like Senator Ted Cruz a murderer.

[Tucker Carlson]

Well, it's true. Ted Cruz is calling for the killing of innocents and funding it. And so what I'm actually calling for is not calling out poor Ted Cruz who's suffering, is already living in hell. And I'm not even mad at Ted Cruz. I want to awaken people to a real moral framework. So you have people who say ugly things and great, you know, that happens everywhere. I'm against saying ugly things. I try not to.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I have.

[Tucker Carlson]

I try not to do that. But you just did.

[Stephen A. Smith]

That's a very ugly thing to say, Tucker. I mean, to call a senator. It's an ugly thing to say.

[Tucker Carlson]

First of all, that, first of all, I don't, I don't. Because he is a senator. It actually matters. It's not ugly. It's a fact. Ted Cruz has called for killing innocents. He's done it to me many, many, many times. We'll just bomb them, Just bomb the whole city, just blow them up. What? There are people, thousands, millions of people who live there who did nothing wrong. They have no role in this. They have no role in a nuclear program. They're just going to work. They're little kids. That's crazy. That is extremist behavior and he has the power to make it happen. He's a U.S. senator. So by the way, we should get back in the media into the habit of criticizing the powerful. I know everyone's upset about some 27 year old gay kid, Nick Fuentes.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Ooh.

[Tucker Carlson]

He says no, he thinks, yeah, I agree, whatever, but who cares? What we should care about is when powerful people misuse their power to hurt the innocent. And Ted Cruz is doing that and so are a lot of other senators. So I'm just waiting for someone to call me and be like, I can't believe you, platform Ted Cruz. I can't believe. How do you live with your. You sleep at night? I mean, did you shake his hand, the hand of someone who called for the murder of innocents? I can't believe you can live with yourself. I'm waiting for that moment. It'll never come because everyone's so freaking brainwashed that they think that whatever that little gay kid is the threat.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I've seen you talking to Megyn Kelly. I've heard Candace Owens position and she talked about fearing for her life. Where are you right now? I'm talking about psychologically. Do you find yourself sitting back. Concerned for your well being, considering the positions that you've taken and the, dare I say, enemies you may have provoked.

[Tucker Carlson]

Well, I mean, where am I right now? I'm in a bunker. Hundreds.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I don't mean, I don't mean where. I'm not asking where, because I don't want you. I don't want you to tell your location. I don't want you to tell your. I'm just talking psychologically. I'm saying, where are you right now? Candace Owens has been on the record talking about. She thinks they, they may try to take her out. Who knows what others like Megyn Kelly are thinking. Where are, what is your thinking? Where are you right now in light of the things that you said, the conversations and the dialogues you've provoked and how you've incited enemies against you?

[Tucker Carlson]

Well, I, from my perspective, I told the truth. And some people didn't like it because it was inconvenient to them. But I would say all of us, you know, if you live to a certain age and you have. I think we're like the same age. You know, you see people you love die and you know people who were totally fine one day and they're gone the next. And it's incredibly sad. It's the saddest thing. But it's also a reminder that we're not in charge of our lives. We're not in control. And you think you have forever, you don't. You have a certain time, you can't control that. And so every day this is. Sounds like a bumper sticker, but it's real. Every day really is a gift. We don't treat it that way. It's just like, oh, it's another day. No, no, it's a gift. And we don't know how many days we have left. None. Not one of us does. It doesn't matter how old or young you are. Not one of us knows how many we have left. And so I've just lived long enough to really believe that, because I've seen it. I mean, Charlie Kirk was sitting at the table I'm sitting at now not long before he was killed. And then he's gone. Never thought that would happen. I still feel so sad about it, as I do for all the people I've lost over the years. I'm sure you feel the same way. So, yes, the idea that, like, oh, I'm in, you know, in. Under threat. Well, we're all under threat all the time because we don't know what the future is. So just like Stop worrying about that. You can't control it. This is. I really believe this. Stop worrying all the time about stuff you can't control. Instead, focus as intently as you can, unloving the people around you, telling the truth, trying to do the right thing, knowing you're going to make a ton of mistakes doing it. Like, that's. That's the business of life, I think.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Tucker. Tucker, the word love comes associated with hope in the eyes of a lot of people. And you've used that word a lot in this conversation that you and I have just had. I'm wondering, when we think about hope, is there a light at the end of the tunnel? Is there some hope? When I look at the Democratic Party, I look at Governor Josh Shapiro out of Pennsylvania. I look at Governor Westmore out of Maryland. I see Governor Gavin Newsom out of California trying to gain traction. We've heard about Bashir out of Kentucky. We know Rubio and Vance on the mix with the GOP. We've seen Governor DeSantis and his leadership in Florida. Even though I might have a couple of issues with him. Where are you in terms of candidates that exist on either side of the aisle? Is there a ray of hope anywhere that you see it, based on what you've observed over the last 18 months or so? Boy.

[Tucker Carlson]

I mean, it's just Waltz of the Pygmies. As you're reading those names. I know a lot of those guys. I just. I just had this image in my mind of the wizard of Oz and all the dwarves. Like, we represent the Lollipop Guild. Like, it's such a collection of mediocrities. I'm sure they're not all bad people, I'm guessing, but I'm sure they're not. But none of those people is going to save this country or make your life better. I mean, honestly, let's be real. I'm not sure that there are political solutions right now. We could have better politics, people who care about us, but the truth is, our problems are really significant. But it doesn't mean that our lives have to be barren or bleak, because really, your life is not about who's in office. This is what I've learned recently. I've thought a lot of this recently because I was so disappointed in Trump, and I'm like, oh, my gosh, what do we do? And it's like, I don't know. Love your wife more. Be kinder to the people who work for you. Give 100% tip at dinner. I mean, I don't know, like, you don't have to wait for some savior to come and make everything perfect, because, like, Josh Shapiro or DeSantis. I mean, come on, these guys, I'm not saying they're evil or anything. I'm sure they're fine. But, like, they have no freaking idea what they're doing. They have no power. The President doesn't have as much power as we thought. That's another thing I learned. He can't fix all these problems he doesn't have. He can't even. He can't even.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Well, then why the hell do you want me or somebody else to run for office? I mean, what hope would we have? Based on what?

[Tucker Carlson]

You would have no hope. But how hilarious would that be? Stephen A. Smith, ladies and gentlemen. Go, Stephen A. Smith. And you'd be like, you know, I can't be funny.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I couldn't get anything done. I'd lose my damn mind dealing with them on Capitol Hill. I couldn't get anything done.

[Tucker Carlson]

But we don't have to wait for that. I guess that's the point. I mean, I've really had to brood on this recently because I convinced myself that Trump was really going to make a huge difference. And by the way, it didn't have to be this bad. Obviously, it was his fault, but he was never going to fix all the problems because that's kind of not how it works. Like, the President has the power to do that. I don't have to wait for the perfect guy or even a great guy to get elected to make my own life better, to make the lives of people around me better, and I shouldn't wait. And I shouldn't also think that my happiness, you know, is dependent on who's in the White House. Like, it's just not true. It's like part of the op, actually. You know, you can create beautiful things in a beautiful life and love other people, no matter who is. I mean, there are happy people in North Korea. I'm sorry. I've been there. It's true.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Very last question. Is that something you've. All you've always known, or is it something you've learned since you departed from Fox News, since you built your own company, since you're doing what you're doing now?

[Tucker Carlson]

I mean, I've learned it. I mean, if you'd asked me 30 years ago, Do I think any man can save humanity? No. I mean, I've never really believed it, but I've sort of talked myself into. Look, you spend enough time around politics. You've had this experience, and you're like, it's so important that so and so win. Or more more commonly, it's so important that person lose. Like, Kamala Harris is going to destroy everything. And like, I wouldn't vote for Kamala Harris. It's kind of a joke, but, but that's not really true. She's not going to like destroy the love between me and my wife. You know what I mean? Like, there are some things that just politics doesn't touch and will never touch. And those things, like what happens after you die, I don't think Donald Trump is in charge of that. And so the tragedy of this war and the sadness and the betrayal and the shock that I felt being close to it and close to Trump was an occasion for me to think through some of these things. And like, be honest with myself, like, I think I was putting a little bit too much on Trump. Did I really think that electing Trump over Kamala was going to make all the difference forever? Like, if I thought that, I'm an idiot. I mean, it'd probably be better, I guess, but it's not. If I think that's like salvation, that's on me.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Tucker Carlson, appreciate the time, man. Gave me a lot of time. Thank you so much. I owe you. Oh, you're an interview dude.

[Tucker Carlson]

I'm gonna see you on the debate stage. I'll be in the front with the press badge cheering you on. Good luck.

[Stephen A. Smith]

You just listen. Nobody has dissuaded me more so than you. You already told me you ain't gonna get anything done anyway. Why bother? There we go. Oh, Tucker Carlson, appreciate your time, man. Thank you so much.

[Tucker Carlson]

Thank you.

[Stephen A. Smith]

866-967-6887. That's 86696 POTUS, you're listening live to Straight Shooter with yours truly. Back with your calls in a minute.

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[Tucker Carlson]

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[Stephen A. Smith]

That was Tucker Carlson with yours truly. That was not the end of the interview because it was edited. I broke up the part about him with minorities in this country because I think a lot of what he says sounds a lot like white nationalists. And I said so. So nationalist. I said. And obviously he's white and he's a nationalist and I asked him about it. Our number two I'm going to get to your calls, but not before I let you hear what he had to say about that. I thought it was important. It is Tucker Carlson after after all, I want to hear what he has to say. I've never interviewed him before. Wasn't that knowledgeable about him. To be quite honest with you, I never really watched him. I saw him a few times on Fox News, but that's about it. Certainly never watched his podcast, so. But I know how polarizing he can be. Had to ask him about that though. Had to carve out what he said separate from what you just heard. Our number two up next, your calls. After some more Toka Costa don't go away.

[Commercial Announcer]

In the US there's a break in every 26 seconds. But when intruders step near Simplisafe, home security steps up.

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[Stephen A. Smith]

on Monday.com straight shooter with Stephen A. Welcome to album part two Trey shooter with Stephen A. Courtesy of SiriusXM POTUS radio channel 12486696 POTUS is the number to call up this 86696 POTUS before I get to the calls. Very interesting. Last 40 minutes or so with Tucker Carlson. Got about 10 more minutes or so for you to listen to. This was a subject closer to me than the other subjects were. Nevertheless, I thought it was important that I carved this section out for you to hear the back and forth between me and Tucker Carlson on this particular issue. Then I'll get to the calls at 86696, POTUS. More with George Truly and took a Carlson Listen to this. So since the country is so hurt and we've got a two party or binary system, Democrats, Republicans, you are not for either side. Obviously you've been talking about a third party, but your thoughts about that at this particular moment in time, is that even remotely plausible? And if so, I mean, where do we go from here? TUCKER Carlson, based on everything you're telling us about the state of this country right now and how both parties are a bit shady to say the least. Where do we go from here?

[Tucker Carlson]

Well, it's not even that they're, yeah, they're totally shady, of course, but they're in agreement on the big issues. And the big issues, just to restate, are the economy and foreign policy. That's where all the money is spent. How do we apportion the spoils in our system? Like who gets rich in America? That's the economy. And foreign policy is who do we bomb? Where do we send money? We have a military that consumes like 80% of our discretionary budget. Okay? It's $1.5 trillion a year in funding. So what we do with the military really, really matters. The trans stuff, I think it's meaningful. It's crazy. But that's not the pressing issue. The parties disagree on trans. Ooh, I'm for trans. You're against trans. Okay, great. But on the big questions, they're aligned. They are on the same page. Chuck Schumer agrees with Donald Trump and Trump with Schumer on the tax code, whatever they say, they agree on the tax code and they agree on the Iran war. So all I'm saying is it'd be nice to have an option like someone should have a party for like the rest of us, because most Americans don't agree with the tax code and don't agree with the Iran war. So where's their representation now? What am I going to do about it? I was waiting for you to run. So a lot of us are just kind of sitting here being like, where's Stephen A. Is he getting in the race? But if you don't get in, it's like, there just should be a real option because otherwise it's not democracy. It's an oligarchy posing, like, painted. It's actually like a trans oligarchy. It's like an oligarchy pretending. No, I'm really. I'm a democracy. It's got, like, big red lipstick misapplied in a wig. It's like, it's too fake. I can't deal with it.

[Stephen A. Smith]

So let's play the game. Tucker Carlson, if not me, somebody else, or me, if I'm running for president or somebody like me is running for president, what does Tucker Carlson want from the candidate himself that could end up in the presidency? What would you want from us that you haven't gotten from either party?

[Tucker Carlson]

I'd want what everyone wants from his or her leaders. What kids want from their dads, what employees want from their bosses, what soldiers want from officers, which is love concern. That's it. I mean, a lot of these problems are complicated, but you're never going to fix them unless you begin with a desire to help and uplift the people you're in charge of. It's that simple. And if you're having wars with iran or letting 100,000Americans die of drug ODs and doing nothing about the drug cartels, it's pretty obvious you don't care about Americans. And so there are lots of potential solutions to these problems, and I'm happy to debate them, but we can't even get there until we get leaders who sincerely care about their people. And we don't have that. It's obvious. It couldn't be more obvious. Oh, we're gonna let the Epstein files become public? No, we're not. Shut up. Stop asking. Shut up, conspiracy theorist. It's like, what? You obviously hate me. You have contempt for me, and they do. And I would know since I spent my life around them. I'm just talking about Trump. I mean, our leadership class. So we can't have that. We need people who have a sincere love, not of the country, but of the people who live in the country, the citizenry, the Americans. And we don't have that. And so that's really the first thing I'm looking for. It's not some magic. How do you fix Social Security? I don't even know. You know, I don't know. It's too complicated. How do you fix schools? I have some ideas, but no one is even trying. Education in America is a freaking joke. Like, it's a joke. You can't send your kids to a public school. In a big city or even in a small city, they're terrible. And only people have no choice to do it. Is there an effort to fix that? No. None. Zero. So, like, all I want is to see that someone cares. And most people I know feel that way, like they're sort of post ideology. I don't know the right answer, but I know you don't care at all about finding it. And so up yours. Get out of here. Leave. That's how I feel.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Listen, I can't deny what you're saying, but the flip side to it is that you're simplifying it. One would easily argue, you know, when people have heard you talk in the past, whether it's about immigration, whether it's about races, about demographics in this country or whatever, they may not share your point of view. A matter of fact, some people may be put off by some of the things they may have that has, that have been put out there about you. But again, we don't know how accurate it is. I guess what I'm asking you is, when you think about this country, what's your ideal of a perfect America? Because a lot of times I got to tell you, I'm not going to say you, because I haven't seen much of you, even though I used to try to watch you on Fox News a lot more than I see you right now on YouTube and stuff like that. I'm just a busy guy talking. What can I say? But I, I, when people talk about you, they, they feel like listen. Nationalist point of view, America first, last, and only for the most part, until the latest stuff with Israel has come about. And there's a lot of folks demographically in this country that wonder whether or not you vibe and you're thinking your vision for this country vibes with what they would like for this country. Talk about that for a second here.

[Tucker Carlson]

I would, I would say nationalist America first. I mean, there's literally no other acceptable way to run a country. So if I've got kids and I'm like, I like the neighbor's kids more than my own, I'm a bad father, okay? So the only justifiable position in a democracy is put the country first. Like, what's the point? Who owns the country? Well, its citizens own the country. Therefore, this whole enterprise, this whole thing is being done on their behalf. So if I don't put my own country first or put another country first, by definition, I'm committing treason, which they are. So it's not about Israel. It can't. Once again, it could be Uruguay. It doesn't matter. You have to protect your people. Nobody disagrees with that, by the way. As for the race stuff, there has been this concerted effort to convince non whites that whites are the problem. Whites are bad, whiteness is bad, we hate whites. And to foment to ferment hatred between the races. Now, why have they tried to do that? Why would you ever do that? Which they have definitely done at, you know, kind of scale for 60 years. Well, because when you're busy hating your neighbor on the basis of his race, they're busy looting your country, which they have done. So it's a diversion tactic. And the truth is, if you, if you say what I just said to the majority of Americans of any color, they're like, well, of course that's right. Like, what's the purpose of having government if it's not there to help you? Like, what then? Why do we have it? To help Bibi. Like, what are you even talking about? Of course you're a nationalist. Of course you're in America first and only. Doesn't mean you hate other countries. Like, I'm not for bombing other countries most of the time unless they're gonna start bombing us. So, like, I'm not against other countries. And by the way, I've been to almost every country on the planet and I like them all. So it's not that. It's like, why do you have a government? It's to look out for you and your interest. That's why you pay taxes. This whole conversation is like bonkers. But the race stuff is the most upsetting. And what you see when you really drill down because it divides people permanently. They've spent. The Democratic party has spent 60 years telling non white voters that whites are the problem and that whites hate them because they're not white. That's a freaking lie, dude. That's a lie.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Okay, but what about.

[Tucker Carlson]

And a lot of black women believe it.

[Stephen A. Smith]

But, but, but, but Tucker, as a black man, what about. From, what about from an historical perspective, looking at slavery, looking at Jim Crow laws, looking at the iniquities act of a white populace that existed in this country and simply acknowledging, look, that happened, that existed, and we could never come close to letting something like that happen again, policy or otherwise. What's wrong with doing that?

[Tucker Carlson]

That's happening.

[Stephen A. Smith]

No, no, no. What I mean is, is it the difference is what happened.

[Caller/Listener]

Yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

Jim Crow is happening again at a larger scale.

[Stephen A. Smith]

It is.

[Tucker Carlson]

We have more racial quotas now against whites than we ever had against Blacks in the south and in federal contracting, in college admissions, in hiring in private companies and public companies. It's like, how about the government treats everybody the same? That's the lesson of the civil rights movement. Let's treat everyone the same.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Stay right there. What if I said to you, Tucker, you got a 50 yard head start, and guess what? You've been operating at a 50 yard head start for a lengthy period of time. And in order to equal the playing field, I've got to get a head start to be able to catch up to you. Because essentially that's what you have a black populace or a minority populace in this country articulating to some degree anyway. I understand.

[Tucker Carlson]

Well, I have the numbers on that. Songs don't make it right. Right.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Okay, I'm saying two wrongs don't make it right. I get that part. But if you're talking about. See, there's a lot of folks within our. Within this country that are of that mindset. And I respectfully disagree. But the key word is respectfully because I understand where you're coming from. I'm just simply saying if you've been operating as a society, as a community with a head start for a lengthy period of time, how is the playing field ever supposed to be equaled if we were never given a come up? I mean, at some point in time that premise has to be addressed, does it not?

[Caller/Listener]

Right.

[Tucker Carlson]

I mean, look, I would say I think it's really important to articulate why racial discrimination is bad. And because it's bad, it's always bad, no matter who commits it. Period.

[Caller/Listener]

Okay.

[Tucker Carlson]

Period. It's inherently bad to judge people and to punish people on the basis of their skin color. Is that. Do you agree with that?

[Stephen A. Smith]

I agree with that. I agree with that. Oh, you do agree with what I'm saying? Okay, then you. I totally agree.

[Tucker Carlson]

And we're done.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I'm not.

[Tucker Carlson]

Conversation.

[Stephen A. Smith]

No, I'm not. I'm not disagreeing. I'm simply pointing out that again, if the objective is to have a fair and equitable society for all, how is that supposed to be accomplished? If folks are operating from behind the eight ball because of years of policies and things that subjugated a community in this country, how is that supposed to happen?

[Tucker Carlson]

I think that people whose ancestors were dragged here against their will in slavery are at a disadvantage. However, I think it's a lot more complicated than you're saying. I think that that does hurt people generationally. Clearly it does. However, the idea that it's all whites are racist, then you Tell me why whites? And you can check the Department of Labor stats on this if you want. They're on the Internet. Whites are, like, I don't know, fifth or sixth for. For income in the United States. So white people aren't the rich people. Nigerians. Your average Nigerian in the United States makes more than your average white. So tell me if there's this, like, system. So I guess what I'm also saying is that, like, this country has become so genuinely diverse. Like, when I was a kid, it was black people, white people, some Hispanics, very few Asians, and really no one else. And the black people, their families have been here as long as mine, hundreds of years. I mean, their families were dragged here in colonial times, some of them. So that was a different picture than what we're looking at now. Now we're going to get to a place by the time, in a couple more decades where the majority of black people in the United States are not the descendant of American slaves. So then it's like, it's. So do we owe affirmative action to an Eritrean when he arrives on a visa program? I don't think so. So, like, this whole thing is nuts, actually. So the only solution is to say slavery is always wrong. Discrimination on the base of race is always wrong. And so let's stop doing it because it's wrong. It would be like saying. And they do say it. Well, you know, a lot of people who survived the Nazi genocide moved to Israel, and their grandchildren, you know, have a right to be upset about that. Okay, got it. But those same people are committing genocide. So it was wrong when it happened. Their grandparents. It's wrong when they're doing it because it's just wrong. There are universal principles that if we don't defend, we will wind up in the world that we left when we started. This country, which is the powerful people get to do whatever they want, and everyone else has to just deal with it. And I don't want to live in that country.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I agree with you when you say there's universal principles that we should just uphold and that obviously, you know, there are things that. Iniquitous acts that we should absolutely speak against, no matter who it's for or against. Absolutely. I'm totally with you. The flip side to it. The flip side to it, however, is that one could easily also argue that that lets off the hook those who have benefited and have positioned themselves to be in positions of power and influence where they. They can subjugate a vast majority of folks in our society as we've witnessed people doing for decades upon decades. You can make the argument that they're already at an advantage and they're getting left off the hook by doing exactly what Tucker Carlson suggests. Because what you want to do is start with a clean slate and just erase all that has happened. I don't mean literally erase it from the mind's eye. I'm just talking about starting from scratch and going forward when we can never start from scratch going forward. Tucker Carson, you know that.

[Tucker Carlson]

But yeah, I mean, look, this has been going on for over 60 years. I don't think it's actually helped that much. It's made people hate each other, but it's also obscuring the true crisis in the country, which has nothing to do with race and has to do with economics and the people benefiting from the private equity scams and the crypto scams and all the other scams underway in the American economy. We don't really produce anything. We just lend money at high interest, sell real estate again and again. Those people are getting richer than everyone else, the billionaire class. And they don't want to deal with questions about how exactly this works. Why are they paying half the taxes that you're paying as a wage earner? Like, I don't really get that. And they don't want to have to defend it. So instead they're like, the real problem is race, and these whites are just bad, and they've taken all the stuff. Well, actually, if you look at the numbers, that's insane. One of the biggest groups of poor people in this country is white. Are they privileged? I don't think they are. So, like, it's not about race. We should treat all American citizens equally. That's the whole point of the civil rights movement. That's the whole point of the Constitution. And we're not, and we should, and then just say, look, it's not about ignoring the crimes of the past, which we should not do. We should never lie about anything. It's just about being honest about what's actually happening. And the real problems stem from the way our tax code is structured. And most people don't even think about it because no one in the media ever talks about it. It's like, really? So if I invest money, I pay half the tax rate, as if I go to work. So are we saying that it's twice as virtuous to invest or to get inherited money as it is to have a job? That's what we are saying. Because we tax things we want to discourage. That's why cigarettes are expensive. So, like, are you really going to say with a straight face that you're like twice as good a person because you inherited money as I am because I go to work every day? Because that's what we're saying, right? And so in a normal country, you just like, have a revolution. People like, I'm not putting up with this. But in our country, because our every conversation is controlled by the media filter, we don't even know what's happening. And so people are like, well, my life sucks. It must be the whites or. And some whites are like, it must be the blacks or whatever. It's like, this is racial foment. This is racial conflict, which is created by the people who are taking all the money.

[Stephen A. Smith]

That's what I needed you to hear. That's what I needed you to hear, ladies and gentlemen. That portion right there. And by the way, he was kind of inaccurate when he talked about whites. Ranks ranked fifth or sixth. You know, economically in this country, that's not true. At least according to the Census Bureau report. In terms of wealth, white households rank second in the United States of America behind Asian American households with a medium net worth of approximately $285,000, compared to $536,000 for Asian households and roughly roughly 46 to $62,000 for Black and Hispanic households. So he was not right about that. But good try. Good try. Up next, your calls for the rest of the hour here with George Truly, Stephen A. In the house, straight shooter style on SiriusXM POTUS radio, channel 124. Looking forward to hearing from all of y' all in a minute. 22 minutes past hour number two, back here on this Straight Shooter with yours truly, Stephen A. Coming at you as I love to do every Wednesday night from 6 to 8pm over the phenomenal air waves of SiriusXM POTUS radio channel 124. 86696 POTUS is the number to call up. That's 86696, POTUS to the phones. We go for the rest of the show, even though don't take too long because the lines are stacked. So I ain't gonna let y' all give dissertations, say your piece. No doubt about it. Let's go to Charles in Maryland. You're live with Stephen A. Charles. Good evening. How are you, sir?

[Caller/Listener]

Hey, Stephen, how you doing? Like you big Nick fan, I just want to know, did you apologize to Brunson because you said so many bad things about him?

[Stephen A. Smith]

I did not say any bad things about Brunson, why are you calling me up? You know I'm doing.

[Caller/Listener]

Originally you did.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Charles, Charles, Charles. First of all, I didn't. Secondly, I'm talking politics. I ain't got time for that, bro. We got a sports show for that. This is my political show. Get to your political point. Call me on Sports on SiriusXM. That mad dose was radio. What's up?

[Caller/Listener]

Okay, let's go to politics. I just want to put a sports analogy. When the sports come, you're okay, but when it comes to politics, you put your balls in the locker and you don't talk correctly. When you go into politics, okay, you, you don't, you don't talk honesty and you don't talk integrity when you come to things. Even when you were talking with Carlson, you don't talk about the right thing. You talk about Jim Crows, but you don't talk about the Democrats were the part of Jim Crow. Democrats are the one who supported Jim Crow. And you talked about things that aren't.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Well, first of all, first of all, I was asking Tucker Carlson about his position on things and that was a small portion of it. And most of the stuff that we were talking about was the war in Iran. Secondly, who the hell do you think you are to call up and talk to me about what? I'm not honest. I'm not, I'm never dishonest. You nor anybody else is important enough to me to lie to. If I don't know, I don't know. But I'm not dishonest. I interview somebody to ask a question and based on the facts that are presented to me, I tell you what my perspective is and how it feels. Most of the time I might be right, sometimes I might be wrong. But I'm never dishonest or disingenuous. I leave that to the politicians to be quite honest with you. So in other words, I don't want to hear that from you. All right, now I'll, I'll sit up there and I'll let you make your point. Okay, if it's fact based. But I'm not going to sit up there and let you take up air time trying to insult my character because you disagree with what I said. It might be because I'm ill informed, it might be because my perspective is different than yours. But I'm not lying and I'm not dishonest. And I wouldn't waste my time with all the stuff that I got going on in my life to do a once a week political show to lie. I got better Things to do with my time than that. Maybe you're thinking like that because that's your character, but it certainly ain't mine.

[Caller/Listener]

Okay, are you gonna let me talk? Are you gonna talk?

[Stephen A. Smith]

It depends on what the hell you say because it's the. It's my show, it's not yours.

[Caller/Listener]

When you interviewed, when you interview Senator Kennedy.

[Stephen A. Smith]

All right, Senator John Kennedy. Send John Kennedy. Okay, go, go ahead, go ahead.

[Caller/Listener]

Okay. When you interviewed Kennedy and you know that the Democrats were holding up the country with the way they were doing when they're holding up everything right, and when Kennedy told you that, he turned around, he proposed something to Trump and Trump said he was going to help the Democrats. You want to turn around and lie and say that, oh, now it's a Republican thing?

[Stephen A. Smith]

I didn't say that. I didn't say that. He asked. I asked him a question. He told me what happened and I moved on to the next subject. A matter of fact, I was going all off about the. I was going all off about the Democrats. I love how you sitting up there and you called me. The Democrats have been complaining about me for months because I've been calling them to the carpet and here you are calling up, talking about. I'm letting them off the hook. They've been crucifying me for months.

[Caller/Listener]

Where you been right now? It's okay. I understand that you.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Goodbye. Bye. Bye. I giving you enough time. You're wasting my time. Let's go to the next call. Mike in Florida, you're live with Stephen A.

[Caller/Listener]

What's up, Stephen? A great pleasure to speak with you. Thank you, Tucker. Carl's interview was awesome. My friend and I did call into question immediately his statistics on wage wages by race. Yes, I'm glad you called that out for us.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Yes, I knew he was wrong about. He. That was not. That was not correct. White people, fifth or sixth on the totem pole in the United States of America. I knew that one didn't make any sense, so I had to look it up. But I looked it up after the interview, but go ahead.

[Caller/Listener]

But I do appreciate the fact check and you're just awesome at this stuff.

You do a great interview, you fact

check and you push back when pushback is needed. I do appreciate my friend.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Thank you so much. Appreciate it, Mike. Take care of yourself. Edward in San Diego, you're live with Stephen A. What's up, Edward?

[Caller/Listener]

Hey, good afternoon, Stephen. And I tell you what, I'm definitely not going to call you out for being a liar because I've been listening to you both in sports and politics for a while now. And, you know, you call it like you see it, whether I agree with it or not, I got to give it to you on that. But I would say that, you know, I hate to say, when it comes to the race thing, you know, my girlfriend, you know, we've been together for over five years as a second language person, she came to this country with nothing. Most of my friends, you know, come to this country with nothing. And most of these people, maybe because I'm running in this type of social circle or socioeconomic class or whatever. And I do appreciate you calling out Tucker on his misinformation as far as the stats go on, on the economics, because when I was looking, listen, I'm like, there's no way. But I would say this. I think, you know, your, your only, your worst enemy is staring at you in the mirror every morning. And I think that, I think that politics plays to race. They need that. That feeds into their energy. And they need, they need, like immigration is another thing they don't want to solve. Because if, you know, Edwards, who's they?

[Stephen A. Smith]

When you say they don't want to solve, who's they?

[Caller/Listener]

Politicians

[Stephen A. Smith]

on both sides of the aisle.

[Caller/Listener]

Yes, sir, you're absolutely right.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Yes, a little right. Because they haven't solved it for decades. It's the proofs in the pudding. They haven't solved it in decades. So you're absolutely right about that. Edwards, I'm not here to disagree with you on that.

[Caller/Listener]

No, no. But I'm telling you, those guys have no desire to solve any of those problems at all because what the hell are they going to talk about otherwise? But I do want to know one thing, Stephen, and you might get on me a little bit about this. What was your shooting percentage in college? I'm just kind of curious about it.

[Stephen A. Smith]

It was, man, it was non existent. I cracked my kneecap in half before I had an opportunity to have a career. Which is why when people try to joke around and saying, I averaged one and a half point per game, I was laughing. I said, really? I thought it was zero because I never played, because I was interested. Better than mine, my brother. Exactly. You know, So I don't know what the hell they talking about, but I appreciate it. Edward, thank you so much for the call, man. Thank you. Feel free to call back anytime. Andy in Ohio, you're live with Stephen A. Go ahead, Andy.

[Caller/Listener]

I'm sorry about that.

[Stephen A. Smith]

You're live on the air. Go ahead. No problem. It's okay. Go ahead.

[Caller/Listener]

I Was listening to you and Tucker.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Yes, sir.

[Caller/Listener]

And Tucker obviously, obviously does not have a clue of what he's talking about. I mean, the idea that he named whites as being fifth or sixth, you know, is just stupid. And I also happen to be Jewish. And the idea of the genocide thing, man, it makes me crazy. These people don't have any idea of what it's like to be living as a minority. Black people in this country, as a result of slavery, lost 5 million black people.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Mm. Actually, Actually, sir, it was a lot more than that, but I got you. Go ahead.

[Caller/Listener]

Okay, so if it was more, it was, of course, as a Jew, just in Nazi Germany alone.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Million.

[Caller/Listener]

That was over 6 million.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Yes, sir.

[Caller/Listener]

So the idea that we are committing genocide, I mean, look, all the Hamas did was come in and kill a couple of thousand Jewish people, burning them in front of their parents, decapitating them. No big deal. Why should the Jews react? And I get tired of hearing that from somebody who is absolutely, totally just a white Christian person.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Let me say this to you. Tucker Carlson said several things that alarmed me. I disagree with some things about Senator Ted Cruz, who I had the pleasure of interviewing about the College Sports Protection Act. He gave. He was kind enough to give me his time, and he's been on this show a couple of times. I certainly would never call him a murderer. I think that's excessive. I. I don't know about Trump shutting down the Butler interview, even though I've heard conspiracy theorists, you know, talking about that. But when I interview, and I, I want. I want you to know this, Andy, because it's very, very important that my listeners know this. A lot of times you interviewing a subject, you don't know what they're going to say. You know what questions you want to ask. But you also know people like him and others can be very, very tricky because they got a lot to say, and they can veer left or right on a lot of different topics. And whatever. My goal is to ask the questions that I think people want to know about and to have them quoted for the record so everybody knows what their stance is and what they say and judge accordingly, because I don't know every damn thing. Like, for example, I'm looking at Benjamin Netanyahu. There's unquestionably, there's anti Semitism fomenting in this country. It has grown. There's no doubt about it. That is incredibly unfortunate. I also think it's incredibly unfortunate that women and children over in Gaza and Palestinians are suffering, and they seem completely obliterated. Out there. I think that's unfortunate as well. And I also think, and I've spoken to politicians, particularly on the left, about this, Andy, where, you know, some have spoken out against Netanyahu. While they are very, very supportive of Israel and the Israeli community, they're not supportive of Netanyahu because they believe he's tarnishing them as a people because of what a war hawk he is and how excessive they believe him to be. So when you have people like the Tucker causes and others that take these positions, I'm not supporting them, nor am I platforming anybody. I talk to everybody and I give them an opportunity to state for the record answers to questions that people want to know. So everybody knows how they feel and it's a matter of record where they stand and going from there. That's all somebody in my position can do, Andy, and that's what I try to do. I just wanted to make sure you knew that.

[Caller/Listener]

Totally, totally logical, what you explained is very easy to understand. I guess the things that make me angry are things that are indeed logical, like the idea that, you know, hey, what do black people have to complain about? They have all the same rights in this country as white people. That's not true.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Right.

[Caller/Listener]

I was, I went to an inner city high school that was 80% African American. I know what the differences is. Are.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Well, but Andy, they're going from a literal perspective. They may be right about what's on the books, but in practice and practicality, that's. You're absolutely right. They don't want to accept that, but they get to lean on what's on the books and they say, hey, civil rights for all, you know, you know, civil liberties for all, etc. Etc. Instead of thinking what's actually practiced. And that's the kind of subject, that's the kind of subject matter they avoid. So you again, you can't be arguing because if I argued with him too much about it, I wouldn't have got to my other question. So you pay attention to all of that as well, because there's time limits when these guys come on the show and you recognize that and you got to maneuver your way through that terrain while you're probing as best as you possibly can.

[Caller/Listener]

Well, Tucker, Tucker is not very knowledgeable. I know that about him now. Okay, I didn't know very much about him, but he obviously doesn't understand too much about life. And when it comes to all these people who are talking about Israel committing genocide in the Gaza, the Jews were in the Gaza long before Palestinians were. And they gave the Gaza back. They physically pulled Jewish settlers out of the Gaza and gave it back to the Palestinians. And the Palestinians dug tunnels and set up.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Well, I don't know if it's that simplistic as well, because in 1948, all of this has been going on since, since 1948. And obviously once World War II was over and you had an abundance of Jews that were relocating, you know, that particular land was given to them, et cetera, and all of the friction and the acrimony and all of that stuff has really, really taken on a life of its own since 1948. At least that's what they will say. I am not an aficionado on this subject. And even if I pretended to be, I still wouldn't, because here's the reason why I can't stand when black, when folks that are not black try to come to black people telling us what it should be like and what it is like to be black in America. Nothing disgusts me more. And I'll be damned if I'm going to sit here as a black man who is not Jewish, who knows very little about Judaism, who knows very little other than what I've read and seen on television and stuff like that about the Jewish Palestinian conflict and all of that to pretend to know about either side. What I do know is this. My discomfort with Netanyahu comes from this sports analogy, Andy, that I use, and that is this. You're a boxer and you knock somebody out cold, yet you still jump on them and keep hitting them. That's what I see when I see the Gaza completely obliterated, the president of the United States being celebrated, him talking about building resorts and hotels, you know, on land over there and, and Netanyahu and these guys still doing some of the things that they're doing. It makes me very, very uncomfortable because I'm thinking about Palestinian children and law abiding citizens who are not a part of Hamas or Hezbollah that are being victimized. And I say to myself, wait a minute, when is enough enough that I do find myself asking. And I don't think I'm far fetched in doing that. So because I've heard governors, mayors and legislators on Capitol Hill all bring up the same concerns and lament the same things when it came to Benjamin Netanyahu. I got to go and give you the last point. I'll give you the last. Go ahead.

[Caller/Listener]

Okay, real quick, here's the last point. The reason why they're still in there has nothing to do with what they've already obliterated. The fact is, is that Habas is alive and well. That's the idea of still being in there after Hamas. And the Hamas don't think anything of murdering as many Jews as they can. And the Palestinians in Gaza are taught from the time they're 10 years old that their only good Jew is a dead Jew. You go ahead and put yourself up against that. That's the problem.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I got you. I appreciate the call, Andy, and I respect your perspective. Thank you so much. T Love in Philly, your live with Stephen A. I knew I'd hear from you tonight. What's going on, big boy?

[Caller/Listener]

You, sir, are not only a skilled orator, but also a highly skilled interviewer. By allowing him to talk and not challenge the speech, you allowed him to show his hypocrisy loud and clear in an open stage format where everybody can judge for themselves. I mean, he is the epitome of this country, the hypocrisy of the United States of America. It shines so brightly. Of course we know that green is what rules green and greed. But you asked him, you. But if you got a 50 head, a 50 yard head start.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Yeah.

[Caller/Listener]

Okay, what do you plan to do about that?

[Stephen A. Smith]

Well, I asked him, how is it fair? How do you want to shut down everything historically and just start and say everybody's on an even playing field when you got a 50 yard head start? That doesn't mesh. That doesn't vibe.

[Caller/Listener]

Absolutely, it doesn't. But he switched lanes and he went to talking about how the plight of the white man in America. Oh my gosh. What is the plight of white people in America? Okay. You haven't been through what we have been through for 500 years. I mean, it only got to the point where it is now. And that started 60 years ago. 60 years ago.

[Stephen A. Smith]

It explains what he did because remember, he's not only somebody that supported Trump, he campaigned for Trump.

[Caller/Listener]

Trump.

[Stephen A. Smith]

So it really, really, really explained what these folks are convinced of. Not, not all white folks, not all. Anybody who support. Who support. There are some people that voted for Trump just because of the economy. There's some people that voted for Trump just to control the borders. But I think that it does. I think Trump's election in 2016 specifically was a product of back backlash from Obama being the president the previous eight years. And a vast majority, I should say, a vast majority, that's inaccurate. But a portion of white America feeling strongly that they're losing their country because of borders, they weren't paying attention to the fact that Obama deported 3.1 million migrants and most of them were of a criminal element, they weren't paying attention to that. Instead, what they were paying attention to was Trump sitting at there talking about we're losing our country. And because he said that and they looked at some of the things that we had in place, folks were uncomfortable with that. So MAGA really fomented and took on another life of its own. And Trump has completely capitalized off of that, which he has shown because immigration was his number one thing. And now that that's been handled, he's got to focus on the SAVE act because the SAVE ACT act is all that he's got to talk about. He can't talk about the economy right now. He can't talk about inflation. He can't talk about crime in the streets. He doesn't have anything to talk about but the SAVE act because he's got us in a war. We've got no business in spending money. We don't be, we don't need to be spending and building a deficit that he promised to lower. So all of that's going on and he's got to have something to talk about. And that's where the SAVE act comes, comes in. T love. It's that simple.

[Caller/Listener]

Correct. It just, it took me. I'm not going to hold you up anymore. It just tickled me how he went deflected straight to Nigerians as a part of holding the white man back. I guess I'm not going to say that for sure, but that's just my interpretation of white people being fist on the economic scale. He didn't mention the Asians. Okay. Who come to this country with all kinds of money and allowed to make even more when they get here. But I have nothing against them. It's just a fact that he's wrong. I, I think he's a hypocrite. I appreciate how you exposed him. Thank you very much.

[Stephen A. Smith]

By the way, by the way, before you hang up, there's about 460 to 580, 000 Nigerian born Americans residing in the United States. When including second generation Nigerian Americans and individuals of Nigerian ancestry, the broader diaspora population swells to between 700 and 850,000. There are over 300 plus American citizens in the United States of America. And Tucker Carlson brought up Nigerians that don't even make up a million. Just want to point that out. T love, thank you for the.

[Caller/Listener]

Thank you, sir.

[Stephen A. Smith]

All right. 86696 POTUS. That is the number to call up. We Will close out the show with your more of your calls in a minute. It's Stephen A Straight shooter style. Coming right at you. Craig in Michigan, you're live. Straight Shooter with Stephen A Boom shakalaka. What's going on, bro?

[Caller/Listener]

Stephen A Mr. Positive. Glad to hear from T Love. I gotta tell you, that was a very controversial, bombastic interview with Tucker Carlson. It was fantastic. And you're spot on about the last, last segment, but he made some relevant points. Just hear me for a second. Number one, we accord Israel favorite nation status because of arguably our Christian makeup in this country. Number two, when you talk about when he said about regime change, you and I know that United States arguably is an imperialistic nation. Ergo, that means that what we try to do is we put in positions of power in countries around the world.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Greg, Greg, are you there? Yeah, Greg, you dropped for 10 seconds. Go ahead, repeat that last point.

[Caller/Listener]

Okay. Are you there?

[Stephen A. Smith]

Yes, I'm right, I'm right here.

[Caller/Listener]

Okay. Okay. The second point would be that I lost my train of thought. But we are an imperialistic nation. When he talks about everyone getting nuclear warheads. The reason that the United States, in essence, sometimes in an imperialistic nation goes to foreign countries, puts people in positions of power that best serve our corporate entities in America. He was right about that. I've read the books in the sense that we are the strongest nation in the world and we have built up nations with our imperialism and putting in people in positions of power that will do our things on our behest.

I got it.

And oh my God, Stephen A. Fantastic. Hey, real quick, when are you going to be in Cuomo?

[Stephen A. Smith]

In 10, 15 minutes.

[Caller/Listener]

Oh, my God.

Hey, give him my love.

And I knew that. And. Hey.

[Stephen A. Smith]

All right, Ben in Alabama, talk to me. What's going on? Ben?

[Caller/Listener]

Hey, Stephen A. I just wanted to throw something out there. I don't think, I don't think that the problem in America is as black and white as a racial issue.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Okay.

[Caller/Listener]

I think a lot of it has to do with just with social economical status.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I totally agree with you. I totally agree.

[Caller/Listener]

And the census data, the census data that you guys are referencing, I mean, there's inherent flaws in there because it doesn't account for single income nor dual income families. And so, you know, when you look at the discrepancies between a single income house, whether it's a mother or father, it's going to have lower income associated with that household when compared to a dual income.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Ben, let's not complicate the issue. If all of us are doing well economically. We got more to lose and we're more prior. We're prioritizing getting along more and living a life of peace and tranquility. You know how we have evidence of that, Ben? Go to a game, go to a football game, go to a basketball game, be able to sit in the same seats as people of a different ethnicity, a different hue, a different, you know, all of that. You don't mind. Don't y' all get along? Don't we all get along?

[Caller/Listener]

Oh, it's a great experience.

[Stephen A. Smith]

It's a great experience, but that's the American experience.

[Caller/Listener]

I can't afford the tickets, though.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I understand that. There's a lot of people that can't avoid it, and there's some people who can. All I'm trying to say is that you're right. I'm using it to illustrate the point. There are plenty of black, white, Hispanics, Asians, Native Americans and beyond sitting amongst one another at sporting events, getting along just fine. Why? Because you're all there enjoying the same thing. There's no inequality that's going on in your eyes. You're sitting there together and it matters. That's all I'm trying to say.

[Caller/Listener]

There's an any. There's an inequality when they leave the game, though, that some people will get into a. Will get into a Porsche and drive home to a mansion. Some people will get on the subway and drive home.

[Stephen A. Smith]

But, but, but you miss, you're missing my point. I was using inside the arena to point out that you're right, that economic inequality plays a significant role. Because when you feel there's equality, you're getting along. It's when you depart from that place and inequality stares you in the face, that friction develops. That's my point, saying that you're absolutely right. But when you find yourself in a comparable environment to others, you'd be amazed how you get along, which speaks to your point. Economic disparities is a big, big issue as opposed to race itself. It's just that race seems to come along with it. But I get you, Ben, and I appreciate it. Thank you so much for the call. Kendall in South Dakota, you're live with Stephen. A. Good evening. Thank you for calling.

[Caller/Listener]

My old issue with your analogy of the boxer in Gaza, Israel, a lot of the Palestinians had their military capability was buried under the ground. So while the surface of Gaza looks really bad, and it is really bad, Israel really hasn't knocked out the Palestinians military capabilities.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Okay, because. Because you're saying Hamas is still in power, obviously, they operate underground, and there's significant damage that they can inflict. Is that your assertion?

[Caller/Listener]

Physically? See? See it? Yes. So. So therefore, it looks terrible what Israel has done to Gaza on the surface, but we. Israel really hasn't knocked out much of it. Knocked out their opponents, their boxing analogies. A little incorrect there, Kendall.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Let me ask you a quick question before I let you go. Okay. Do you remember a couple a few years back when the Israelis got a large contingent of Hamas soldiers and they used the beepers to explode all in unison and got hundreds of them? Do you remember that?

[Caller/Listener]

Oh, yeah. That was impressive.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Here's my question. How could you pull something like that off, but can't find a way to get to them without harming women and children and innocent civilians? How could you pull off something that

[Caller/Listener]

were. We weren't criminals of World War II when we bombed Dresden and.

[Stephen A. Smith]

All right, listen, this is not World War II, Kendall, but I. Again, I asked you a question, because I'm running out of time. I'm making the case that if you can pull off something that sophisticated, you could pull off something like that. How come you can't pull off similar actions that would call for minimal damage to women, children, and innocent civilians?

[Caller/Listener]

Once again, has there ever been warfare where there hasn't been civilian casualties? There never has.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I don't imagine there has been, but there has already been civilian casualties. And we've seen the obliteration of Gaza as we speak, at least above ground. That's the point that I'm making. But I don't have much time.

[Caller/Listener]

But not their military capability is what I was going.

[Stephen A. Smith]

And I'm saying you're right. And I'm saying you're right. I'm not disputing it. I'm not disputing it. I'm simply saying if you can pull off something that's sophisticated, you can find a way to neutralize their military capabilities.

[Caller/Listener]

No military other, other than that limited instance with the. What the pagers, has ever, in the history of warfare ever occurred.

[Stephen A. Smith]

All right. Y' all are exhaust. You're exhausting me because I'm making the point. That's an incredibly sophisticated operation they pulled off. It was sensational, and it showed an ability that most military, you know, militaries, can't pull off. So if you can pull off something like that, I'm saying you can get at them even more. That's my position, but I got you. I got to go. Kendall, I appreciate the call. Scott and Charlotte, floor is yours. Go ahead.

[Caller/Listener]

I just wanted to quickly make a couple of points. So this whole genocide thing, genocide, you want to kill everyone of a certain being. There's I think it's 2 million Palestinians that live in Israel inside the and so if that were the case, they would be killed. Secondly, I would have to also say that the Israelis allowed the Gaza to pick their own leadership. They picked Hamas.

[Stephen A. Smith]

That's true.

[Caller/Listener]

They aren't separated. And also this whole thing about getting rid of trying to wash the Palestinians out of Gaza. How many, how many Jewish families lived in Gaza?

[Stephen A. Smith]

I do not know, sir.

[Caller/Listener]

I no openly Jewish person ever lived in would live in Gaza at any point since Hamas has took over. So I would say is that ethnic, ethnic cleansing as well. So.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Well, that's what, that's what people like Tucker cause to believe. I got you. I got to go to the last caller. I get what your point is. You disagree with cause I. Tucker Carlson. I got it. I understand it. I appreciate the call. Tom in Los Angeles, you're the last caller and you only got a minute. Floor is yours.

[Caller/Listener]

Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Thank you. A big fan. Stephen. Hey, I'd like to just put forward this because I think it would help the conversation. When we always focus on the gap and the idea of this head start, we lose sight of the progress. We only focus on the gap. The Pittsburgh Pirates will never be as rich as the Yankees, but the Pittsburgh Pirates are rich. In 1959, 55% of our black family members in Los Angeles were in poverty. In 2022, we're at 17%. Progress and disparity can coexist. So while I'm not saying it's perfect and I'm not saying we did everything right, I would like to acknowledge though, we are making progress.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Sir, let me ask you this question, Tom. If we're making progress, why don't we complain so much about Trump

[Caller/Listener]

Politic wise, sir, I agree we're going to complain about a lot of it. I agree there's a lot to complain about. But just staying singularly focused on the 50 yard head start. It's true.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Got you. I got to get on out of here. Tom, I appreciate the kind, I appreciate the time, appreciate the calls. Thanks to Tucker Carlson for coming on the show. He's riled a lot of people up. Make no mistake about it. I'll be back next week. Same bat time and channel. Straight shooter with yours truly, Stephen A signing off for potus. See you next time. Peace and love. Take care.

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