POLITICAL CHAOS IS WASHINGTON D.C.; JAMES CLYBURN (D-SC)

Summary

The Stephen A. Smith Show

Episode: "POLITICAL CHAOS IS WASHINGTON D.C.; JAMES CLYBURN (D-SC)"

Date: December 18, 2025
Host: Stephen A. Smith
Guest: Representative James Clyburn (D-SC)
Live from: Washington, D.C. with studio audience

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Overview

In this multifaceted episode, Stephen A. Smith broadens his focus far beyond sports, immersing listeners in the current turmoil of national politics. Broadcasting from the heart of Washington, D.C., Stephen A. uses characteristic candor to critique both parties, decry political divisiveness, and center urgent issues like healthcare, economic uncertainty, and the responsibilities of leadership. The episode includes insightful Q&A with a live audience and listener callers, culminating in a sharp and engaging interview with Representative James Clyburn, who discusses the current Democratic Party, the enduring complexities of race and leadership in America, and his new book on the first Black congressmen.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. America’s Political Landscape: Division, Distraction, and Disconnection

• Opening Rant on Political Dysfunction:
  • Stephen A. is visibly frustrated by political “nonsense” and gridlock. He slams both sides for fueling outrage instead of solving real problems: “The manner in which those feelings, those emotions are stoked by people on Capitol Hill is something I’ve lamented for quite a long time…” (03:35)
  • He frames much of contemporary politics as a “distraction” from urgent material issues: the ACA subsidy expiration, rising unemployment, debt, and border security.
• Healthcare Debate:
  • Stephen A. highlights the imminent healthcare crisis as ACA subsidies are set to expire, with Americans facing drastic increases in premiums: “As of January 1, premiums are expected to rise sky high…The average American citizen can’t afford that kind of discrepancy” (04:19, 12:54).
  • He lambasts Congress for failing to prioritize these stakes: “Instead of making sure you negotiate these things…we’ve heard about all this other stuff…” (12:59)

2. Presidential Conduct and Public Outrage

• Trump’s Response to the Rob Reiner Tragedy:
  • Stephen A. reads and denounces President Trump's inflammatory tweet after Rob Reiner and his wife’s alleged murder by their son, calling it “classless, tasteless, asinine, disgusting. All of those things are appropriate.” (08:40)
  • He spotlights rare bipartisan condemnation, with Republicans like Marjorie Taylor Greene, Thomas Massie, and Mike Lawler rebuking Trump's remarks—“This is a family tragedy, not about politics…” (13:20)
• Democratic Strategy:
  • Advises Democrats to stay silent for once: “If the Democrats opened their mouth, they’d blow the momentum they’re building…Here’s the point. Shut the hell up. Don’t say anything. Don’t say anything about woke culture. Don’t say anything about cancel culture. Don’t get into identity politics. Don’t do any of that. Stick to healthcare, stick to affordability and make sure that you have an answer to the problems that persist.” (16:47)

3. Personal Reflections and Social Critiques

• Stephen A.’s Upbringing and Views on Capitalism:
  • He underscores the authenticity of his perspective by recalling his own impoverished upbringing: “You weren’t around when I had holes in my roof...I know what welfare cheese smells like.” (18:26–19:05)
  • He reaffirms a belief in capitalism, with caveats: “I believe in free market capitalism…Do I believe there should be some government oversight...Yes, I do, but only for that purpose.” (19:19–20:00)

4. Audience & Caller Q&A: Tough Questions on Race, Politics, and Potential

• Stephen A. on a Michelle Obama Candidacy (23:11):

  • “I think Michelle Obama is the greatest first lady in history. I absolutely revere her…But if I was involved in politics officially…it would be my own. I’d run…I would choose that role.”
  • He challenges the idea that America isn’t ready for a woman president, citing evidence: “Kamala Harris was the Democratic nominee…nearly 75 million votes, most of any Democratic candidate in history…That’s us not being ready?” (23:19–25:54)

• Race, Authenticity, and Critique Within the Black Community:

  • On being attacked as an “Uncle Tom” for criticizing Democrats: “We don’t hesitate to throw our own under the bus…You can do 99 things positive as a black person…second somebody profoundly disagrees, they have to castigate you and label you.” (28:39)
  • He draws historical parallels: “When Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. made the strides he made…people took sides between him and Malcolm X…” (28:39–34:04)
  • Maintains commitment to truth and asks politicians hard questions, like challenging Rep. Jasmine Crockett’s approach: “Is calling the president a piece of shit on television going to help you?” (33:56)

• On Women, Maturity, and Social Progress:

  • A caller asserts, “Women are more mature because they work through their shit.” (48:01)
  • Stephen A. banters but resists generalizations: “I think that men have said that about women, accurately so, and more women have said that about men. And that’s definitely accurately so.” (48:50)

• On Running for Office & Political Seriousness:

  • Admits he’s been seriously asked to consider a run but is candid about trade-offs: “If I were to run for office, I’m told I would have to give up a lot of my money. Now, that ain’t happening…If there were any political position that I would want, it would be…the president…” (43:27–45:53)

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Representative James Clyburn Segment (1:02:16–1:01:54)

1. Health Care Stalemate and the ACA

• House vs. Senate Gridlock

  • Clyburn explains the House passed a GOP health bill, but it’s “not going anywhere” in the Senate.
  • On Expiring ACA Subsidies: "When we get back here in January, the Speaker is going to have to put that bill on the floor…why should the richest country in the world not have health care accessible and affordable by all of its citizens?" (63:17–65:19)

• Tax Cuts vs. Healthcare Support

  • Argues the hypocrisy of GOP’s spending priorities: “Tax cuts for the rich are not free, much more expensive than health care for the low income…if you could come up with $3 trillion for your side…how come you can’t come up with $1.5 trillion or less for the Democratic side?” (66:08–67:12)

2. State of the Democratic Party & Leadership

• Leadership & Climate

  • Praises Hakeem Jeffries' ability to create a climate for bipartisan collaboration: “One of the things you ought to look for in a leader is who can create a climate within which we can find common ground…Hakeem Jefferies has been around.” (67:53–69:04)
  • Pushes back on idea that leadership is about populism or being loud or “boisterous.”
  • On adapting to Trump’s style: “We should not make normal that which is abnormal…It is abnormal behavior that we’re getting from this president.” (69:48)

• On Gender, Race, and Electoral Reality

  • Suggests reluctance to elect a woman (particularly a Black, Asian-American woman like Kamala Harris) remains for some voters: "Maybe they couldn't get beyond gender…It's one thing not to be able to get there. It's something else when the reasons are not normal…" (71:23)
  • Stresses the persistent influence of race and the Electoral College: “Gender and race can make a difference in the Electoral College, which is why I wrote this book." (74:07)

Notable Exchange on Gender Readiness:

• Stephen A.: “I emphatically disagree that it might be gender driven…Hillary Clinton got 2.9 million more votes than Trump…Kamala Harris got the most votes of any Democrat, ever!” (71:52)
• Clyburn: “There are people, Black and White, who will refuse to vote for a woman. I know that…gender and race can make a difference in the Electoral College.” (73:05–74:07)

3. On His Book: "The First Eight"

• Reason for Writing: Inspired by a question about Black leaders’ portraits in his office, intending to correct misconceptions about Black political representation.
• Transformative Moment: After January 6, shifted to a “cautionary tale”—anything that has happened can happen again.
  • “Anything that’s happened before can happen again…the three most consequential things that happened to Black folks after the Civil War were each decided by a single vote.” (78:23)
  • Vivid Historical Lesson: The end of Reconstruction and the start of Jim Crow came down to a single electoral vote—stressing vigilance and the power of participation.

4. Strategic and Moral Lessons

• Moral Clarity vs. Political Expediency:
  • The struggle to sustain moral standards while facing belligerence and “normalized abnormality” (i.e., Trump’s style), with Clyburn urging: “Don’t make these things normal.”
• American Apathy and Voting:
  • Clyburn and Stephen A. bemoan low turnout and apathy after key wins (e.g., Obama’s elections led to drop-offs). “Once we elect you, then we expect you to deliver for us…but we don’t need to vote anymore. And that’s what happened.” (87:58)
• Advice for the Next Generation:
  • Encourages remembering each vote counts and being agreeable, even while disagreeing on policy.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (Timestamps MM:SS)

• On ACA Subsidy Crisis:
  "As of January 1, premiums are expected to rise sky high…The average American citizen can’t afford that kind of discrepancy." – Stephen A. Smith (04:19–12:54)

• On Trump’s Reiner Tweet:
  “Classless, tasteless, asinine, disgusting.” – Stephen A. Smith (08:40)

• On Democratic Messaging:
  “Shut the hell up. Don’t say anything about woke culture. Don’t say anything about cancel culture. Stick to health care, stick to affordability.” – Stephen A. Smith (16:47)

• On Black Community & Critique:
  “We don’t hesitate to throw our own under the bus…The second somebody profoundly disagrees with you, they have to castigate you and label you.” – Stephen A. Smith (28:39)

• On ACA vs. Tax Cuts:
  "Tax cuts for the rich are not free, much more expensive than health care for the low income." – Rep. James Clyburn (66:08)

• On Political Loudness:
  “People confuse boisterous behavior with leadership.” – Rep. James Clyburn (70:49)

• On Persistent Barriers:
  “There are people, Black and White, who will refuse to vote for a woman. I know that and I think you know that.” – Rep. James Clyburn (73:05)

• On the Stakes of Every Vote:
  “The three most consequential things that happened to Black folks after the Civil War were each decided by a single vote.” – Rep. James Clyburn (78:29)

• On the Work of Goodwill:
  “People of ill will in our society are making much better use of time than the people of goodwill.” – Rep. James Clyburn, citing MLK (86:25)

• On His Hope for the Future:
  “I believe we have candidates waiting in the wings…and I think the American people are going to be very, very pleased with the choices we’re going to give them.” – Rep. James Clyburn (98:16)

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Key Timestamps

| Time | Segment/Highlight | |----------|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 01:15 | Stephen A. opens with frustration over political division | | 04:19 | The ACA (Obamacare) subsidy expiration crisis explained | | 08:40 | Reads/condemns Trump’s tweet about Rob Reiner tragedy | | 13:15 | Republican officials condemn Trump’s comments publicly | | 16:47 | Advises Democrats: “Shut the hell up…” | | 18:26 | Stephen A. relays personal struggles, roots, economic philosophy | | 23:11 | Discussing Michelle Obama’s hypothetical candidacy, gender in politics | | 28:39 | Caller confronts Stephen A. about being called an “Uncle Tom”; historical context | | 43:27 | Stephen A. addresses running for office | | 54:49 | Audience asks: How should Democrats engage young voters? | | 62:15 | Rep. James Clyburn joins, discusses ACA, party dynamics, leadership crisis | | 66:08 | Clyburn on healthcare/tax cut hypocrisy | | 69:48 | Praising Hakeem Jeffries as a leader; refusing to “normalize” Trump’s behavior | | 73:05 | Gender and race’s continued impact in electoral politics | | 78:29 | How single votes shaped Black history, cautionary historical lessons | | 86:25 | Clyburn, quoting MLK, on goodwill versus ill will | | 98:16 | Clyburn asserts confidence in Democratic talent for 2028 | | 100:39 | Closing: Clyburn’s hope from his book—every vote counts |

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Conclusion

This episode offers a robust, unfiltered appraisal of America’s political malaise, punctuated by Stephen A.’s trademark intensity and skepticism, plus deeply relevant lessons on leadership, race, voting power, and the real-life repercussions of political brinkmanship. The dialogue between Stephen A. and Rep. James Clyburn is both combative and respectful, digging into uncomfortable truths and enduring challenges faced by the Democratic Party and the nation at large. Clyburn’s history lesson on Black political pioneers and the power of a single vote offers critical context and urgency, while Stephen A. calls on his audience to stay focused on substance—especially affordability, healthcare, and voting.

Memorable close:
"Vote. Vote, dammit, vote." – Stephen A. Smith (88:15)

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For listeners and non-listeners alike, this episode is a vivid snapshot of America’s current political conflict, infused with history, personal testimony, and no-nonsense advice for the future.

Transcript

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[Representative James Clyburn]

Straight Shooter with Stephen.

[Stephen A. Smith]

What's up, everybody? Welcome to the latest edition of Straight.

Shooter with yours truly, Stephen A. Smith, coming at you every Wednesday night from 6 to 8pm Eastern Standard Time over the airways of SiriusXM POTUS radio channel 124. Number to call up, as always, is 866-966. That's 8669-676887-86696.

POTUS.

That is the number to call up. Let me get right to it, because I've been annoyed all week long and it's not because of people that I'm about to talk to because we've got Representative James Clyburn coming into studio this evening. I'm here in the nation's capital, Washington, D.C. right down the block from the state capitol and what have you. And Representative Clyburn is coming in in part to promote his new book, the First Eight A Personal History of the Pioneers, Black Congressmen who Shaped the Nation. So I'm interested in talking to him about that. But it's inescapable how we're going to talk about the Democratic Party, the world of politics that is going on as we speak, the kind of things that we have to deal with and the kind of things that I think has served to divide this country instead of bringing us together. Now, I'm not living pie in the sky and I don't have an attitude, particularly here in the nation's capital in front of a live studio audience. I don't have this kind of attitude where I'm, I'm. I'm living in a fantasy world, not recognizing that division is a part of life, that people have different beliefs, different ideology. They walk around thinking and feeling the way that they want and the way that they believe, and sometimes that's diametrically opposed to fellow American citizens. Nobody is oblivious enough to know that that kind of stuff doesn't happen. But the manner in which those feelings, those emotions are stoked by people on Capitol Hill is something that I've lamented for quite a long time, and one of the biggest reasons why I've been involved in the world of politics these days. I have a job. Life is pretty damn nice. I could have stayed in sports and minded my business and lived happily ever after. But as an American citizen, as a black man, as a voter, somebody that's concerned and prides myself in being a conscientious observer, I look at the things that divide our nation and I get really, really perturbed over it, to say the least. And Donald Trump's reaction to Rob Reiner and his wife being killed, allegedly by their son over the weekend is the latest kind of stuff that I'm talking about. Understand that we've got more important issues going on. I'm certainly not trying to imply that two individuals being murdered, heinously, I might add, by their own son, allegedly is. Is not important. I'm certainly not trying to imply that. But that's going to affect the lives of them and their families. What we're talking about here with the Affordable Care act and subsidies is tens of millions, if not hundreds of millions of American citizens. You've got a situation where the Affordable Care act and the subsidies that were implemented during COVID it reaches an expiration Dec. 31.

As of Jan. 1, premiums are expected.

To rise sky high.

And there are an abundance of Americans.

That'S going to have a very, very difficult time paying for that.

And what we see on Capitol Hill.

Is a bunch of nonsense that's been going on. And I'll get into all of that in a second.

But if I'm going to bring up the word nonsense, the first order of business is to start off with the.

President, who I will openly admit has me off.

And the reason he's pissed me off is because he's made life difficult for people like myself who are inclined and downright anxious to talk about the issues and say yay or nay to it. How do you feel about his performance on the economy? How do you feel about inflation in this day and age and what it's.

Looking like right now.

Is there an impending recession or are we already in one? What about immigration? What about border security? What about the use of ICE in order to sort of support his goal? What about safety in the streets of America? What about the jobless rate? What about unemployment reaching about 4.6%, which is the highest it's been since 2021? What about this money that was supposed to be coming into this country courtesy of all of these pledges you received and whether or not that was going to come to fruition, generating in excess, in excess of trillions of dollars which was going to help fuel the economy while also dissipating that $38.4 trillion debt that we're supposed to be trying to trim down. What about those things? Those are issues, Wouldn't you say those are issues worth talking about? I'd say those are issues that we're talking about, but we don't get to talk about that. Why? Because they had the F C files that obviously were relevant in people's eyes to some degree. So much so that some members of MAGA turned against Trump with that originally, his attitude after campaigning on it, by the way, after campaigning on releasing that stuff, you know what it was going to be about? Hey, it's no big deal. What's the big deal? It's really not a problem. Why are you guys so fixated on this? Until MAGA folks got involved and said.

Wait a damn minute, you did campaign on this.

This issue is important to us. We want those files open. And then after much and much and much resistance, all of a sudden, we learned after our votes on Capitol Hill that eventually it will be released this month, not immediately. We'll take a look, we'll see, we'll grab hold of it. We'll see what we want to redact or whatever, and then we'll sit up there and we'll put it out there for you to see. I can't wait to see how much stuff is blim.

Is. Is.

Is blacked off. But that's a different subject to another day to Rob Reiner and his wife.

Allegedly brutally murdered by their own son. Even had Kevin Frazier from Entertainment Tonight come on this show and said there was rumors and reports about their throats being slashed.

Originally we heard about a 4 million.

Dollar bond for their son Nick to be let out of jail. And then we heard bond was revoked and there is no bond. He's gonna have to stay and he's gonna have to stay in jail for the foreseeable future and before the bodies got cold. Excuse my expression, I'm not trying to be inappropriate here. I'm trying to to accentuate the seriousness of how vile, how disgusting, how belligerent, how petty our President can be. This man, the 47th President of the United States, puts out this tweet two days ago. I'm going to read it to you. Quote, very sad thing happened last night in Hollywood. Rob Reiner, a tortured and struggling brother, but once very talented movie director and comedy star, has passed away together with his wife Michelle, reportedly due to the anger he caused others through his massive, unyielding and incurable affliction with a mind crippling disease known as Trump Derangement Syndrome, sometimes referred to as tds. He was known to have driven people crazy by his raging obsession of President of President Donald J. Trump.

With his obvious paranoia reaching new heights.

As the Trump administration surpassed all goals and expectations of greatness. And with the golden age of America upon us, perhaps like never before, may Rob and Michelle rest in peace. Classless, tasteless, asinine, disgusting. All of those things are appropriate. Something people are hesitant to say about the President these days.

Now, I'm a person that's been on.

The record and I have been raging against a Democratic party that I've had nothing but disgust for over the last couple of years because of their strong leaning towards woke and cancer culture in the extreme left. And for those who had a problem with me taking that position, let me stay here in front of the cameras, in front of live studio audience, I could give less than a damn. I don't care. Because to me, the vast majority of American citizens, even when you don't get what you want, the vast majority of American citizens are not on the fringes, they're towards the center. Not totally, but they're towards their reasonable conclusions. A willingness to compromise and understanding that everybody doesn't get to get everything they want. Because all of us don't think the same, we're not from the same DNA, we don't have the same proclivities, we don't have the same preferences, we don't have the same likes, we don't have the same beliefs. And that's okay.

Because in a country like the United States of America, which is supposed to be a gorgeous mosaic, one of the.

Elements that we lean on is a.

Level of understanding that we have towards and respect towards one another for the.

Fact that you might be different than I am and something might be more important to you than it is to me. You might care more about the economy than I do.

Somebody else might care about abortion more than somebody else. Somebody else might care more about the border than somebody else. Somebody else's priority might be safety in the streets. And because all of those things are.

Going on, you have to have a level of sensitivity towards those things and.

Understand and appreciate the differences. But it's easier to accept, in my.

Estimation, when you are dealing with folks on Capitol Hill who get that and.

To make sure that they disseminate that.

Kind of message so they don't cause chaos and disruption and mayhem in the streets of America while they on Capitol Hill. Remember what they did during the shutdown, don't you?

43 days, government employees furloughed or laid off, let go. And those who were kept weren't being paid, weren't being paid, but the politicians were being paid. So the people who were elected officials assigned, I might add, assigned to work on Capitol Hill in a productive enough fashion to avoid shutdowns. These same people didn't do their job. That lent itself towards you not getting paid, but then they turned around and they get paid. This is what has been going on. This is the problem. This is why you see a level of frustration that turns violent. Remember, I come from the world of sports fan, that's short for fanatics in the world of sports. So coming from that world and seeing how rabid people can be, you develop a level of understanding that makes you say, if they're that way with sports, how are they going to be with real life? Because sports don't determine your health care. Sports don't determine your safety in the streets. Sports doesn't concern your affordability.

You could choose to go to a game.

You can choose not to go. You can choose to support your team. You could choose to purchase cable and watch them on television. You could choose to do a lot of things. Or you could choose not to. You have that choice at your disposal.

Our choices are left up to the politicians on Chapel Hill when it comes to real life issues. When you've got the aca, the Affordable Care act and its subsidies scheduled to expire December 31, you've got people that were paying $260 a month that are expecting to pay over 2,000. If that doesn't get addressed, what are.

You going to do about that?

The average American citizens can't, can't afford that. They can't afford that kind of discrepancy.

They can't afford that spike. But instead of talking about these things, instead of making sure you Negotiate these things to get these matters resolved. We've heard about other. All of this other stuff, and now you've got Trump issuing quotes like this to a point where, okay, Marjorie Taylor.

Greene, even she had to speak out against him.

Rod Ryan and his wife were tragically killed at the hands of their own.

Son, who reportedly had drug addiction and other issues.

And their remaining children are left in serious mourning and heartbreak. This is a family tragedy, not about politics or political enemies. Many families deal with a family member.

With drug addiction and mental health issues. It's incredibly difficult.

It should be met with empathy, especially.

When it ends in murders.

How about Representative Thomas Massie? These are both Republicans. Now, in fairness to the gop, everybody's not falling in line with Trump the way that they were doing the first few months of his return to the White House. Representative Massey, regardless of how you felt about Rob Reiner, this is inappropriate and disrespectful discourse about a man who was just brutally murdered. I guess my elected GOP colleagues, the VP and the White House staff was, will just ignore it because they're afraid I challenge anyone to defend it. Another Representative Mike Lawler. This statement is wrong. Regardless of one's political views, no one should be subjected to violence, let alone at the hands of their own son. It's a horrible tragedy that should engender sympathy and compassion from everyone in our country, period. Piers Morgan. This is a dreadful thing to say about a man who just got murdered.

By his troubled son. Deleted.

Mr. President. Delete it. Let me make sure that I quote Senator Ted Cruz, who was sitting right here next to me in this same studio just about three weeks ago or so. He says, I'm deeply saddened by the horrific murder of Rob Reiner and his wife. He was one of the most talented movie makers have ever lived, from Spinal Tap to When Harry Met Sally, from A Few Good Men to my favorite movie of all time, the Princess Bride. We are weeping the loss of a comedic and storytelling master. His movies touched us deeply and spoke to our fundamental humanity. Rob Reiner was one of a kind.

And he will be missed.

The tragic circumstances of his murder make it all the more horrible. Heidi and I are praying for his family Rest in peace.

Here's what we should pay attention to for a change. We haven't heard anything from the Democrats, and I want to say thank you. I applaud that because the chances are if the Democrats opened their mouth, they'd blow the momentum they're building. You see this hatred for President Trump.

Justified or not, depending on who you ask, the reality is, is that it's been an impediment to the Democrats success along the way. And that's how I'm looking at this right now. Particularly as we approach Christmas, because Christmas.

Could come and go.

But don't think those folks that are worried about their healthcare ain't worried about the expiration of the subsidies on December 31st. So their Christmas is already, is already compromised because no agreement has been reached. A vote is taking place as we speak. It's not expected to pass, which means you won't have a resolution, which means as a result of that, even though the continual resolution has already been resolved, at least momentarily, the bottom line is health care matters haven't been resolved. And you got a president that's literally sitting in front of the camera when he's not making such asinine statements like this, sitting there giving himself an A plus plus plus plus plus grade on the economy when everybody knows there's no way possibly that you could do that. Unemployment's at 4.6%. Inflation is relevant. A recession could be before our very eyes. You're talking about these opportunities that have come from everywhere, all of these pledges by these companies in the trillions of dollars. Where's the money? We haven't seen it yet. Has there been a collapse in our economy?

No.

But has there been a flourishing economy? We can't say that. Can't say it at all. And yet you sit here and you give yourself a grade and if people believe it enough and hear it enough and what have you, I guess that some people will embrace that mentality. You're the Democrats. Here's the point. Shut the hell up. Don't say anything. Don't say anything about woke culture. Don't say anything about cancel culture. Don't get into identity politics. Don't do any of that.

Stick to healthcare, stick to affordability and make sure that you have an answer to the problems that persist. Because contrary to what you led people to believe leaning into the 2024 election, you didn't have it year unemployment rate was a little less, but you had a whole bunch of people having government jobs. Well, if they're government jobs, that's taxpayer dollars that's funding them.

If you need taxpayer dollars to fund.

Folks who are working in the government and to fund the government overall, what are you ultimately doing? You're ultimately contributing to the debt because we're spending money we don't have.

And by spending money that we don't.

Have, where does that lead us?

That lead us to another election where.

They'Re talking about the deficit and we're.

Talking about the mismanagement of money, and we're talking about American citizens having to suffer because future generations, our children and our children's children and our children's children's children are going to have to pay the price for what you mismanaged. What you mismanaged. And that's both sides of the aisle.

So that's how I look at this, ladies and gentlemen. That's where I'm coming from with this.

And for those of them that's gonna look at me, you know, Stephen A. Who the hell is he? You know, I mean, you living quite well, Stephen A man I was broke where we used.

First 45 years of my life.

Don't come to me when I started.

Making a little paper and then chide me.

You weren't around when I was growing up in Hollis, Queensland. You weren't around when I had holes in my roof, when I saw rats and roaches running around, when I barely had a pot to piss in. And I had a mother taking care of six kids, starving herself and working like God knows what, seven days a week. Seven days a week, 16 hours a day, one week's vacation a year for 20 years. I know what welfare cheese smell.

I know what welfare bread and cheese smell tastes like.

This is not unfamiliar to me.

I don't want to hear that nonsense.

When I hear a president talking about how, you know, and the economy is great and the affordability issue is a democratic hoax.

What are you talking about?

You're a billionaire.

I'm not dismissing that. We live in a capitalistic society.

I want you to make your money. I want everybody to get paid. I believe in free market capitalism. I believe in that more than I believe in socialism. I believe in that more than I believe in communism. I believe in that more than I believe in fascism or Marxism. I can tell you that much. I don't. I believe there's only one, one philosophy that works. I believe in capitalism. Do I believe there should be some government oversight in terms of making sure that people are operating on the up and up instead of fooling the system? Yes, I do, but only for that purpose. In a world of capitalism.

That springs hope because you got an opportunity to capture the American dream. And that's what it's all about. That's why people come from all, all corners of the world to try to be the United States of America. But what's life gonna be like when you get here, particularly with a president that's fixated on retribution no matter what anybody says. That is as petty as it comes. That defines his moral compass and decency by who he likes and dislikes as opposed to what's fair minded and what's decent and what's beyond the pale and what isn't. These are the kind of questions that we have to ask ourselves. And for once, I don't have a guest in the first hour, which means the lines are open right now. 866-967-6887 is the number to call up. That's 86696 POTUS. Between that and and this live studio audience in front of me, I'm gonna have a whole bunch of people that's got some questions and Lord knows I've got some answers. I'm not saying this is what you're gonna like, but I have them. I have them. At least from my perspective. You are listening live with Straight Shooter with Stephen A. Right here in the house. Live from the nation's capital, right down the block where these folks are voting yet again without reaching a resolution on health care. So if I sound like I got an attitude, figure out why do that in a break. We'll be back with more in a minute. Stephen A. Straight Shooter in the house. Back with more in a minute.

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[Stephen A. Smith]

27 minutes past hour number one back here on stream Straight Shooter with yours truly, Stephen A. Coming at you every Wednesday night from 6 to 8pm over the airwaves of.

SiriusXM POTUS Radio Channel 124. Number to call up, as always, is 866-967-6887. That's 86696, POTUS. Before I go to the calls on the calls on the line, I've got some studios, studio audience members here wanting to ask me questions.

I'm going to go to y' all first. Hello. Introduce yourself and please ask your question.

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Hi, I'm Jane from D.C. you recently.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Said that you think Michelle Obama would.

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Easily win the Democratic nomination and maybe even the presidency if she ran. What role would you like to serve in her Cabinet?

[Stephen A. Smith]

None. I have no desire to serve a role in Michelle Obama's cabinet, or Barack Obama's Cabinet, for that matter. I respect and revere our former president. I think Michelle Obama is the greatest first lady in history. I absolutely revere her. But in the same breath, the only reason why I would want to, first of all, if I was involved in politics officially, in terms of being in somebody's cabinet, it would be my own. I'd run and I'd be determined to win. And if I'm not running, I'm going to sit in the exact seat that I'm sitting in right now, raising hell, because I do that well. So I would choose that. I would choose that role. I don't want to be. I want to be somebody giving the directives and making sure people are executing my vision of what I think my administration in this country should be, not deferring to somebody else's vision. But I do believe that as knowledgeable and as smart and as gifted of an orator as she is, that Michelle Obama, I think that women would come out in droves voting for her. I think that women are obviously a very, very strong electorate whose support she would have. And I think as a result of that, that would propel her to heights unseen. But clearly she doesn't want that challenge. I did have an issue with her saying that America as a country isn't ready. I think she is wrong. I think she's dead wrong. And I say that respectfully. But the reason why it doesn't sound that way is because I'm saying it respectfully, but with a bit of irritability. I'm sick and tired of men being blamed for certain things that we don't deserve to be blamed for. Hillary Rodham Clinton won the popular vote over Donald Trump in 2009 by 2.9 million votes. That's us not being ready. I don't think that's us not being ready. Kamala Harris was the Democratic nominee for the presidency of the United States of America in 2024 who brags about receiving nearly 75 million votes, the most of any Democratic candidate in history. Is that the country not being ready or is that you campaigning wrong to at least a little bit? 107 days, etc. Governor of New York is a woman. The governor elect of New Jersey is a woman. The governor elect of Virginia is a woman. The former speaker of the House, who is revered by most politicians on the left is a woman, Nancy Pelosi. There's too much evidence that has shown that this country has evolved and that when you think about men, I think most of us have come to the conclusion that women are pretty much smarter than us, more civil than us, incredibly capable of leading. And I resent the fact that anybody would imply otherwise at this stage and point in our country's history because I think we've proven that that's wrong. You don't have to win a presidential election to prove that. And when Senator, when Representative Clyburn comes in here, I'll ask him to his face because we disagree based on his public position about that as well. I do not agree with them at all. I think it's a cop out. And Michelle Obama can prove me wrong anytime she wants to run. I dare you. And watch how many people will come out and vote for her. She will win the Democratic nomination in a cakewalk. Nobody out there would be Michelle Obama right now. Nobody. At least on the Democratic side. What you gonna do on the Republican side? Do I believe she could be Marco Rubio or J.D. vance? Yes, I do. Trump is a different animal because you have people that want to support him, just don't want to admit it. And so as a result, they might vote for him, but would never tell you they'll just go to the polls and vote. But JD Vance or Marco Rubio, I think people will publicly display their support or lack thereof for either candidate. And I think Michelle Obama would have a chance to win. Okay, thank you so much. Let me go to Corin in Ohio. You're live with Stephen A. How are you?

[Caller]

What's up? Stephen A.

[Representative James Clyburn]

Doing well.

[Caller]

How about yourself, man?

[Stephen A. Smith]

How you doing, my man? How's everything? Thank you for calling.

[Representative James Clyburn]

Good, good.

[Caller]

Yeah. So my question is about. It's called cultural equity. And I feel like your entire career you've been very proud, black man. You promoted African American athletes. You highlighted the discrepancy in coaching in the front offices. You talked about having a black billionaire owner in the NFL is well past time for that. So you've been very, very pro African American your entire career, 30 year plus career. But you come out, you say obvious things that have been wrong with the Democratic Party. You asked Jasmine Crockett some very real questions, especially now, those questions have been raised now that she's running for Senate about how the way that she's, how she's gone about her career so far, how will that help her in her constituents in the future? Why do you think that when that happens, all the things that you've done in the past can be thrown away that you've done for African Americans. And then you make a couple of comments that are, you know, that can be seen as true or at least up for debate, a very lively and real debate can put that. All those things can be cast aside and then now you're for less of a better term, your Uncle Tom in some people's eyes.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Well, first of all, there's two obvious answers to that question. The first answer is that in politics all of those things are not only possible, but ordinary. It happens all the time. Anytime somebody is looking for what's politically expedient, particularly as it pertains to a politician or pundits who support that side of the aisle, that's what's going to happen. And so you gotta understand that those are big boy, big girl rules. You gotta know that the other side to it is that that's the elephant in the room that black folks don't want us talking about. We don't hesitate to throw our own under the bus. It's just a fact. It's sad, but it's true. You can do 99 things positive as a black person for your own community. And the second, somebody profoundly disagrees with you, they can't disagree with just what you've done. They've got to castigate who you are and they have to label you. It happens on too many occasions. But we also have to understand that from an historical perspective, that has happened as well. When we saw Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. Making the strides that he made, there were people who took sides between him and Malcolm X because they had a different philosophy and a different ideology. And it wasn't enough for one to be different than the other. One had to be too angry, too acerbic, not the right voice for our people. The other was too soft and weak and came across as an Uncle Tom and stuff like that. This is what they said about our black leaders. And on many, many occasions that stuff that's happened. But you got to have the intestinal fortitude to move beyond that, to understand how that can be very, very annoying and in my case, insulting. Because in some instances, it's come from people that I've loved, that I've cared for, that I've looked out for, or tried to. And they know better, and they know they're not telling the truth, but it's politically expedient with what they're trying to do with their YouTube shows and their podcast shows and all of that stuff to come across as being authentic with their fake rage. You have to be able to stomach that. Everybody can't stomach what I can stomach. People forget that when it comes to me, and I'm looking at my audience as I say this. People forget that my background is in journalism, that I've spent the first 20 years of my life being a print journalist. They forget that when you're trained as a journalist, you're not trained to have friends. You don't want enemies because. But you're not trained to have friends. You're literally supposed to be in pursuit of the truth. And in pursuit of the truth, whatever comes with it, whatever level of venom, vitriol, or whatever comes with it, you have to accept that, because you're not there to be liked. Think about White House reporters historically covering the White House over the years in Capitol Hill. Think about some of the things that were said about them. Think about when they'd be on the Sunday morning shows. Think about when they had to answer critics or whatever, and then they shoved it off their shoulders like nothing. Why? Because they knew they weren't there to be liked. They were there to report an inch as close to accuracy as you can possibly get with all of these spin doctors and everybody else building walls to prevent you from getting as close to the truth as you'd like it to get. Think about what President Nixon said about reporters and other people doing Watergate. Think about what the Reagan administration said about folks covering Iran Contra affair. Think about what happened with George W. Bush when, you know, when he was swaying up and down, no new taxes before he provided new taxes. Think about Clinton and the Monica Lewinsky scandal. You know, think about George W. Bush, you know, when. When he went to war. And think about, you know, Saddam Hussein and how, you know, what you were going after him when he wasn't really supposed to be the target. And so much stuff that we heard about the late Dick Cheney and some of the decisions that he made, et cetera, et cetera, list goes on and on. And on where vitriol and insults and all of those kind of things were thrown out there to insult people's character, where they made a mistake with me is that I can take it and I can give it back and I can take it and then say nothing and keep on going on. Jasmine Crockett was a perfect example. I apologize to Jasmine Crockett, but people mistook what I was doing. What I apologized for was because Trump's reaction in the aftermath of some of the things that I said and people making the assertion that I contributed to him insulting her as a lady when he called her low iq. For that, I sincerely apologize, because I don't want to contribute to those kind of insults going in the direction of any lady or any human being. But what I did when I spoke on her, I stand by that to this very moment. I simply asked the question, is calling the president a piece of shit on television going to help you? At the time, you had 766,000 constituents. You still have that. But I said, you are a smart woman. You are accomplished. You are a lawyer by trade. You have a license to practice law in Texas and Arkansas as law as well as federally.

And if you remember my words weeks ago, what did I say?

Why aren't you thinking about the Senate?

766,000 people in your district, but if you run for Senate, that's 31 million people in Texas, there's only two state senators. One of them would be you. What about that?

And sure enough, here we are, who's running for Senate.

So people forget that. And as a journalist, as somebody who.

Was trained as a journalist, you have to remember that and march forward. Because it ain't about what people say, it's also about what you do. And as long as I got this microphone and I got these cameras and I got this reach and I've got my own voice, as I said weeks ago, I will say again, I'm not going away. So you're gonna have to deal with it whether you like it or not. And trying to act like something happened that didn't happen. Let folks who aren't as conscientious as me or just wanna come out with their fake rage, acting like they're making noise about something which is really much ado about nothing. I'm gonna sit up here and do this show. They talk about folks like Representative Clyburn. I have him come in the studio. They talk about folks like Senator Ted Cruz. I had him in studio. They talk about people like Speaker Mike Johnson or Jim Jordan, okay? I've had them on this show. They've talked about Governor Shapiro or West Moore or Spencer Cox or Hakeem Jeffries or Madeline Dean and people like that. I've had them all on this show. There are people who talk and then there are people who do. And in my case, I talk and do, period. That's my response to that. Appreciate the call, though. Anything else, Corin, before I let you go, thank you for your call. Appreciate it. Go ahead, buddy. I know you got a question. Studio question from this gentleman right here. Tell us your name and ask your question. I'm owen from Washington, D.C. and I have to ask who has the worst.

[Caller]

Hot takes, Donald Trump or Skip Bayless?

[Stephen A. Smith]

I can, I can say, I can say, I can joke about this because Skip Bayless know I'm having fun with him. Skip Bayless is a notice sports analyst. We used to work at espn. Got me started on First Take. I owe a lot of what I've achieved to him and I'm grateful to him. He and I are still friends to this very day. Then he left for FS1, offered him a lot of money and he was there for years before he stepped away from that. Just a few months ago, I would tell you that the worst take has been from Skip Bayless who said that Tim Tebow was more clutch than LeBron James and Kobe Bryant. Now that there's nothing wrong with that man. Something wrong with that man. But that's all in fun. There's no question that the worst takes have been from President Donald Trump because he religiously engages in hyperbole. He will bloat his, his, his, his statistical, his statistical data. He will bloviate about things that he is doing when it's not official that he has done it. You know, just like, for example, I've ended seven wars. Well, we still waiting for Russia, Ukraine to end. You talked about bombing Iran and obviously that appeared to be the right thing to do. And I'm sure the Jewish community doesn't have any problem with that, considering how they serve to really, really finance terrorists and what have you. And they've got their proxies, whether it's Hezbollah, Hamas or anybody else. But we still, even after the bombing, even after the war between Israel and Hamas essentially has ended with how Israel just destroyed the Gaza Strip and what have you. And Benjamin Netanyahu reduced that place to rubble. We still find ourselves just recently reading in the newspapers how Tehran is still financing folks and they refuse to backtrack from who they are and what they stand for. And how they're committed to wiping Israel off the face of the earth. And so when you take those things into consideration, what do you mean, stuff is ending? What do you mean stuff has been resolved? You know, you're clearly in pursuit of a Nobel Peace Prize. Who told you you deserved that? It's not finished yet. The job is not finished. And I think the thing that we should all be alarmed about is how often the President talks as if the job is completed. It's not. We're still waiting for these results to reach fruition. You know, when you talk about the state of economy, we appreciate the fact that it's not a collapse, but inflation and threats of a recession have been something that we've been hearing a lot about over the last few months. You doing business overseas? Let's remember what Marjorie Taylor Greene said about him, which I thought was very profound. You campaigned on America First. When have you been about America First? Over these last few months. You're more over. You're overseas more than you're here. She wasn't speaking in a literal sense, but she was speaking about his actions. We've seen you go over to the Middle east, you come back with a jet from Qatar, you know, and all of a sudden you're building a ballroom on the White House grounds and all of this other stuff, okay, you got to do all of these things.

[Representative James Clyburn]

Fine.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I'm not going to sweat all of that. But what's happening to the American economy? And what do you mean you're going to give a speech and you're going to talk about all the good things that you've done, and you're going to talk about affordability in the United States of America? How are you going to do that? Exactly?

[Representative James Clyburn]

How?

[Stephen A. Smith]

Who are you to tell other folks what's affordable and what is not when you're not living in their world? You don't go to the supermarket and buy your own eggs, your own bread, your own milk, your own cereal, et cetera. You don't do that. You don't pump your own gas. Okay? You don't do all of these things. So when you say it's a democratic host, it shows a level of detachment. And I think the thing that hasn't been explained enough and hasn't been talked about enough is the fact that when it comes to the gop, the fact that he's doing all of this stuff while spewing this kind of rhetoric and turning people off who are moderates, who are middle of the road, who don't want that noise and that chaos. He's doing this before the midterm elections. Usually you'd want to wait after because you don't want to do anything that could get in the way of your side of the aisle when in the midterms he's officially jeopardizing the GOP with his behavior and his rhetoric. I didn't say policy because that is yet to reach fruition. We don't know. But with his rhetoric and his behavior, his juvenile tendencies, he's jeopardizing the GOP along the way because it's reminding folks from 2020 of what they didn't want to deal with then and what they're not going to want to deal with now. Now, that doesn't mean they're going to hand it to the Democrats, because the Democrats don't have leadership as far as most people are concerned right now, meaning a definitive candidate to lean on. But he's opening the door for them and he doesn't seem to care. And maybe that has something to do with the fact that he doesn't get to run for a third term in 2028 because he doesn't get to circumvent the 22nd Amendment of the United States Constitution that limits you to two terms. Maybe we'll see. 866-967-6887 is the number of club. That's 866-96-OTUS back with your calls and more to close out our number one in a minute. You're listening live to the Straight Shooter with Stephen A.

Back with more of y' all and.

Yours truly in a minute.

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[Stephen A. Smith]

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[Stephen A. Smith]

48 minutes past hour number one back here on Straight Shooter with yours truly, Stephen A.

And Straight Shooter with Stephen A. Smith, Joe, courtesy of POTUS radio, SiriusXM channel 124866, 967. 6887 is the number.

[Representative James Clyburn]

Call up.

[Stephen A. Smith]

That's 86696, POTUS, some point in hour number two.

He's on Capitol Hill right now voting.

About the GOP planned health care bill.

Representative James Clyburn out of South Carolina.

Coming on to promote his new book.

And to talk to us about the.

State of the Democratic Party as we speak. So I'm looking forward to him getting here as soon as he possibly can. Until then, again, your phone calls are welcome. Got a studio audience here in the.

Nation'S capital and right down the block from the state capitol.

And I'm looking forward to talking to.

Folks, obviously, a bit more.

I love talking with the audience. I love talking with my callers and listeners. No problem there. Yes, ma', am, you have a question for me? Your name and the question, please.

[Caller]

Hi, Steven. My name is Keisha and I'm from Northern Virginia.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Yes, ma'.

[Representative James Clyburn]

Am.

[Caller]

And actually, great segue for my question, which is about running for office. I heard you mention it at one point. It was probably a while ago. But tonight you've actually talked an awful lot about your opinions and you've talked an awful lot about you would want to run your own administration as opposed to be in someone else's administration. So is that something that you really are looking into? And if so, which party?

[Stephen A. Smith]

Democratic Republic.

I'm saying that I'm taking it very seriously. I've been asked to consider it very seriously, and I'm doing exactly that. I'm living a very, very good life, very fruitful life right now. And if I were to run for office, I'm told I would have to give up a lot of my money. Now, that ain't happening. That's not happening. I'm not doing that. Okay? But if there's a way for me to get on that debate stage and debate some of these politicians and the things that they have done to what I consider to be derail our country and to call them on the carpet for it, I will not hesitate to do that. That is not something that I would run from. I have no desire to be a politician. If there were any political position that I would want, it would be one thing and one thing only, to be the president of the United States of America. I'm not interested in being one of a hundred senators. I'm not being interested in being one of 435 representatives. If I'm going, I'm going for it all. And I personally don't know what I would do against the Republicans because you have folks on the right side of the aisle that are obviously going to support. They're staunch conservative candidates. But I will tell you, for me personally, I believe at this particular moment in time, there isn't a Democrat out there that I can't beat. I don't think the party has the leadership that it needs. Certainly you can beat me if it's contingent on campaign dollars generating campaign money so you could have your commercial. When I say I can beat him, I'm talking about on the debate stage and at the poll.

I'm not talking about all of the.

Other ancillary stuff that comes into the equation that's a part of it. Like, you know, you got to go out there and fundraise. You got to ask people for money. You got a Curry favor, which means you gonna owe favors. Oh, no, they can beat me at that. But I'm talking about two things. Debate stage and the voting polls. I believe I could win. I truly, truly do. And so I left the door open and I'm going to do that. And I'm gonna use the entire year of 2026 to take it very seriously and treat it with the seriousness that it deserves. And somewhere near the end of 2026, early 2027, I'll make my decision. I think it's highly unlikely that I will do it, but I have promised several people that I love and care for very dearly that I will not rule it out and I will not.

[Caller]

You're sounding very much like a politician, even though you want to try to stay out of it. That sounds very.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I don't think I sound like a politician. I think I'm giving you an honest answer. Because let me tell you this. If I was broke, I would tell you. Yeah, but I mean, the fact that, you know, I worked my tail off for 30 years in the business and I just signed a contract that I never dreamed would be possible with ESPN and I have a contract with Sirius XM that I never dreamed of. I'm living a very, very fruitful life and it's a lot to give up. And why would I give it up.

For all for nothing but stress.

Okay, that is a question mark.

The only thing that would be worth.

It is the presidency of the United States of America. And I think that. I personally believe that. Of course, I'm not a master of the issues. I'm not an aficionado. I have to do a lot of studying. I'm not ready. But come 2027, I would be. I promise you that I wouldn't get on a debate stage not ready. And I think anybody who sees me debate knows I wouldn't get on a debate stage not ready. That would not happen. So I'm leaving the door open and I'm very, very serious about leaving the door open, but that's it.

[Caller]

All right. I think that's a good answer. Interesting to hear. I'm just going to tell you, love to hear you on a debate stage because I'd love to hear someone be more for real. All right.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Being up on the stage, people get called out. It would be bad. It would be respectful, but it would be bad. And I mean, I'm not going to give any names or whatever, but it's so much ammunition to go at these candidates. It wouldn't even be fair because I don't have a record. They do. See what I'm saying? So it's open season. And it would. It would really be bad for some people to sit across from me on a debate stage with some of the things these politicians and these potential candidates have done.

[Caller]

Well, I'd appreciate the call to it.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Let's go back to the phones. Let's go to Will in Missouri. You're live with Stephen A. What's up, Will?

[Caller]

Yeah, I know why women are tend to be more mature than men. You want to, you want to hear it?

[Stephen A. Smith]

I'm not sure I want to hear it, but I will.

[Caller]

I can sum it up in one sentence because I know how people mature. Work through your shit.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Yeah.

[Caller]

If you don't work through your shit, if you bury it, if you swallow it, if you deny it, there are a lot of elderly toddlers running around that have never dealt with their shit ever, ever, ever, ever.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Yes, that. That's three shits. Don't do it a fourth time. Okay. But I get where you're coming from, Will. I appreciate your perspective. Thank you for it. I'm just not sure that that's, that's, that's gender driven. I think that both women and men could be accused of that. Part of that's my only thing that I would say. I think that men have said that about women, accurately so. And more women have said that about men. And that's definitely accurately so.

But I appreciate the call will.

Thank you so much for the call. All right, let's go to Micah in Philly. You're live with Stephen A. What's up, Micah? What's going on?

[Caller]

Stephen A. So my question is, on your last take, you mentioned that Donald Trump's, I guess his more his positions are starting to push away moderate people. As a 35 year old married with two little girls, and I'm also a black man, I'm also a veteran, I can sit here and tell you that that is not the case from my experience. And I want to know where you're getting that information from.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Excuse me. Anybody would tell you that in this day and age about the moderates they've written out. I mean, read the articles. It could be the Washington Post, it could be the Wall Street Journal, it could be the New York Post, the New York Daily News, it could be the LA Times, it could be the Financial Times, it could be the Wall Street Journal, it could be, I mean, it could be FOX News, it could be msnbc. There are concerns. The Republicans themselves say they have those concerns.

I've had Republicans come on this show.

And say that they have those concerns. They believe in him, but they believe.

That his rhetoric and his behavior is.

An issue that turns folks off and.

Reminds them of what was through the whole social justice era of 2019, 2020. And they don't want to return to that kind of chaos. And then you see him in office.

And when you want to focus on what he's doing with the border, when you want to focus on the economy.

When you want to, on safety in.

The streets, when you want to focus on these things, he does something to.

Rile up folks, to make them say, is that really, really necessary?

We don't need that kind of behavior.

In the office because remember, the presidency.

Is a statesman's position. It's a statesmanship position.

The governors of each state, the mayors of each state, you're basically running your respective states. The government, you're talking about, the federal government, which is supposed to have 435 congressional figures, along with 100 senators who recognize their constitutional duties, assist in keeping the President in check. So you don't have an autocracy or an autocratic society, along with our Supreme Court, along with the federal courts, etc. Everybody has a role to play. And so when you have a situation.

Where people are questioning whether that role is adroitly being played, being played, being.

Played, combined with how he has acted in terms of being a loose cannon, you do have folks on the moderate.

Side out there that says, damn it, damn it, damn it.

Because they may have lamented what was.

Transpiring with the Democrats in terms of.

Woke culture, in terms of woke culture.

Cancer culture, et cetera.

But they also don't want it to go to the extreme other side, where your belligerence breeds chaos and an absence of peace in the streets is something.

They concern themselves about and they blame.

You along with the other side.

That's where that comes from.

[Caller]

Quick. So does that. Does everybody not realize that this is Trump's last term?

[Stephen A. Smith]

I got you. I'll answer that call at the time. At the start of our number two, we all do realize it's Trump's last term. Does he realize that it's his last term? That's the right question to ask my brother. You didn't do that, Micah. But I forgive you. Our number two. Up next, Straight Shooter with Stephen A. Don't go away.

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[Representative James Clyburn]

Straight Shooter with Stephen A.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Album number two A Straight Shooter with Stephen A.

Right here with you in front of a live studio audience inside the Nation's capital, Washington D.C. right down the block from the nation's capital. Number to call up as always is 866-9676. That's 86696, POTUS. You're listening live to Straight Shooter. SiriusXM POTUS radio channel 124. Before I get back to callers along with folks right here in the studio audits. I'll get to you in a second. The GOP just passed some boat on healthcare. Uh, my producers want to hand me the story. I would tell you. Don't bother. It's not necessary. It's not going anywhere, cuz it's gonna be dead in the Senate. Okay, so we all know this is just a bunch of pomp and circumstance. It's much ado about nothing until stuff is voted across the aisle. And you have enough folks on both sides of the aisle that push forth a new healthcare bill. It's not going anywhere and I think that the GOP ultimately will pay the price if indeed the subsidies for this Affordable Care Act, AKA Obamacare, doesn't get resolved. Whether it's a one year extension or a three year extension to extend the subsidies. If that stuff doesn't get resolved, no matter what the GOP says, I think they're going to bear the brunt of the blame because you've had ample opportunity to find a resolution and you haven't. Where is your plan? That's what they're going to say about the gop, which is what they've always said about the gop. Trump talking about wanting to put pockets dollars in the pockets of Americans. When you talk about 1500-2000, really, that's what we're doing. What is that gonna amount to? What's that gonna resolve? Have you seen the cost of medical bills? That ain't gonna cut the mustard. You want insurance to pick that up so those premiums don't elevate sky high and you're not handicapped. It's just that simple. It's just that simple. So that ain't gonna work. Okay, that's him. Living pie in the sky seems a bit detached to say the least. But that's neither here nor there. Let's go back to our studio audience here. Since I'm here in the nation's capital in front of some very, very lovely people. Always appreciate y'.

All.

Thank y' all so much for being here. So let's let me hear your name and your question.

Sure. Brandon from Omaha, Nebraska. Question I have for you. With politicians beginning to campaign for the midterms, how do you feel? How do you think the Democratic Party should engage with young voters who are disengaged by sitting out or switching party lines in the previous election?

You got to talk about affordability. You can't be talking about woke culture. You can't be talking about cancer culture. You can't be talking about identity politics. You got to be talking about practical down home issues that affect the everyday American citizen. And that's about affordability and safety. You have to focus on that. And if you don't do that, you're going to lose. It's that simple. You got to remember some of the things that transpire. Like for example, I was very happy, you know, when, when, when you see a president like Joe Biden giving money to HBCUs. When you see how, you know, the unemployment rate had improved, but it was a byproduct of folks getting a lot of government jobs, a lot of federal Jobs. Well, guess what? That's not going to last, because in some people's eyes, that contributes to debt. That contributes to debt, which is what Trump did. And when the minute he came in there, courtesy of him and Elon Musk, they cut out programs, they cut out assistance, US Aid and other things. They did these kind of things. And that was. That was problematic. And so now that you move forward, you gotta remember what America is supposed to be about. It's a capitalistic society. People are trying to get paid. The small business atmosphere, that stratosphere, is what you really, really gotta focus on. And you gotta make sure that you focus every bit as much on the sector as you do on the public sector, because the private sector is what's going to ultimately feed the economic system that we're living in. If it's government jobs and what have you, even though that's good, because people don't have money, and the more money they have, the more they're willing to spend, particularly during the holidays and things of that nature. The fact of the matter is, it's still costing the government. And you got to find a way to trim that $38.4 trillion deficit. You got to find a way to go about the business of making sure that people have money in their pockets so they can spend and fuel the economy with without costing the government. If you do that, that's when you're leaning towards a path of more success. Until you do that, it's going to be a struggle, and it's inescapable. The Democrats forgot about that. And I'm going to say this, and I've never said this on the on before. I'm going to say this now, and I know it's going to be controversial, but I don't give a damn the LGBTQ community. I support that. I totally do. I always have, always will. I am a fiscal conservative. I am a social liberal. When it comes to my money, I can't stand high taxes. I don't want to live in California. I don't want to live in New Jersey no more. I want to live in New York anymore. I'm tired of them damn taxes, you understand? I'm tired of it. Tired of it.

Tired of it.

Okay?

But when it comes to you and.

How you choose to live your life, I'm all for it. Live your life. Be all you can be. But there are exceptions. When you're Kamala Harris and you're caught on tape saying that you support prisoners having sex changes and it being funded by the government, which is what they were accusing her of saying, because obviously that's something that would be federally funded as opposed to something coming out of their pocket. That's problematic. When you are a trans individual who's transitioning from male to female, that's your business. There's no problem right up until the moment you decide that you want to play sports and compete with ladies. How fair is that to the ladies? When genetically speaking, there's no way that you don't have an advantage. There's no way. So, and then last but not least, how can anybody be on the record like Gavin Newsom was recently and he talked about trans children. And then you have people reminding you that there were folks on the Democratic side who were supportive of children transitioning without parental consent. Now, the average American citizen out there.

If you ask them to raise their.

Hand and says, do you approve of.

Anybody telling you that your child can.

Do anything without your permission, let alone.

That you don't even have to go there, you don't even have to go to a trans. A trans child transitioning from male to female. You don't have to go there. All you have to go is ask a very simple and generic question. Are you in support of somebody.

[Representative James Clyburn]

Telling.

[Stephen A. Smith]

You that your child, a child, can.

Do anything without your consent? Anything.

Something as simple as going downstairs to grab candy at 10 o' clock at night instead of taking you behind the bed. A parent will lose their mind over that. Because it's my child. Who are you to tell me what you can do with my child? These are practical issues. You don't have to be a politician, you don't have to be knowledgeable about policies and all of that stuff to know that there are certain things that are just flagrantly wrong.

But that was what was happening in the eyes of the American voter, which.

Scared the living hell out of people. And so those are the kind of.

Things that can't happen if the Democrats.

Stay away from that stuff and get back to reminding people that they are the ones.

They are the party for the American, for the American citizen.

They are the party that cares about.

The impoverished and disenfranchised.

They are the party that cares about uplifting the poor. They are the party that first gave you access, whether it's through civil rights, voting rights, or I forgot the act of 1964, I'm 1968.

I'm sorry.

When you talk about those things, they're.

Like, wait a minute, hold on.

Those are the things that gave us access to capital.

That is what you need to be reminding people of when you talk about the future of Americans, when you start getting on a moral high ground and telling people how to live now more so than ever before, you're going to lose the American voter because the American voter has never been more belligerent as they are in this day and age. They do not want to be told what to do because they look at previous generations as having failed this country with our deficit, with the deterioration of our society, what we do behaviorally, et cetera. They believe we have let them down. They ain't trying to listen. So us telling them what to do on a moral high ground ain't gonna work. When you start talking money and affordability and safety. Oh, they'll listen to that. They will listen to that. 866-967-6887 is number code is 86696. POTUS, you're listening live to Straight Shooter with Stephen A. SiriusXM POTUS radio, channel 124. He is here. Representative from South Carolina, 30 years plus from South Carolina, Representative James Clyburn in the House with yours truly right after this break. Don't go away.

Eighteen minutes past hour.

Number two back here on Straight SHOOTER with yours truly, Stephen A. Smith. It is my honor and privilege to have my next guest in studio. He is the third ranking Democrat in the House of Representatives, serving South Carolina's 6th congressional district for over 30 years. He is a member of the influential House Appropriations Committee and his new book is titled the First Eight A Personal History of the Pioneering Black Congressman who Shaped a Nation. Please welcome to the show one and only Congressman James Clyburn. How are you, sir?

[Representative James Clyburn]

I'm fine, thank you. Thank you.

[Stephen A. Smith]

We'll get to your book in just.

A couple of minutes or so. I've got to ask you, there was a vote in the House today. Obviously, the GOP voted, voted their health care plan. They voted it. But obviously a lot of people are anticipating it's going to be dead in the Senate. What can you say about the state of this Affordable Care act subsidies and what's being voted on and how this whole process has been going?

[Representative James Clyburn]

Well, thanks very much for asking that question because I want to do a couple of things. First of all, I'm no longer the third rank and I used to be. Okay. Secondly, the Affordable Care act, and I want to emphasize that because we nicknamed it Obamacare, someone decided to be a little bit derogatory when they started that. But we named that the Affordable Care act because we wanted health care to be affordable and accessible for everybody. And so what happened today is that the Republicans put up what they would like to see rather than what some of their own members wanted to see. I don't know if you've seen the report on this, but four of them signed the discharge petition to put on the floor a bill that will allow a three year extension of tax credits. Now they always say subsidies when they talk about low income and middle income people, but it's tax cuts and tax breaks when they're talking about other people, wealth of people. These are tax cuts that will allow the implementation of the bill. And so I think that when we get back here in January, the Speaker is going to have to put that bill on the floor. And I think it's going to get to 218 votes. The fact of the matter has got 218 votes to come to the floor. And so we'll pass it and it'll go over to the Senate. And I don't know what's going to happen when it gets to the Senate, but I will hope that at least 60 people over there will allow a vote on this. Because why should the richest country in the world not have health care accessible and affordable by all of its citizens?

[Stephen A. Smith]

I don't disagree with that. The four Republicans that obviously sided with the Democrats on this, that cross party lines, Representative Brian Fitzpatrick out of Pennsylvania, Representative Robert Bresnahan out of Pennsylvania, Representative Ryan McKenzie out of Pennsylvania, Representative Mike Lawlor out of New York, those were the four right there. I get where you're coming from. What about the arguments that the GOP side would make that Obamacare, Affordable Care act, as you would say. They named it Obamacare derogatorily, as you pointed out. They wanted it attached to the Democratic Party, but their belief was, is that it wasn't going to be sustainable, that it wasn't going to be affordable, that it was going to be far more expensive than the Democrats ever led on. Their argument has been and continues to be that they've been proven right. What do you say to that when we look at the situation with the Affordable Care act as we speak?

[Representative James Clyburn]

Well, nothing is free. Tax cuts for the rich are not free, much more expensive than health care for the low income. So they got a problem if it costs money to provide health care, but no problem taking money out of the coffers, giving the wealthy corporations and individuals free. That's what they're doing, not paying taxes.

[Stephen A. Smith]

So your mentality is, and speaking not just for yourself but for the Democratic Party, the belief is that, excuse me, you know, here they come and they want to give tax cuts to the wealthy, and you're talking about ultimately costing our government an additional $3 trillion. I think I saw the number. It was around that number. Well, if you could come up with $3 trillion for your side in terms of your agenda and what you want, how come you can't come up whether it's 1.5 trillion or less for the Democratic side in terms of addressing the Affordable Health Care act, particularly when a lot of people from red states are using the Affordable Care Act?

[Representative James Clyburn]

Absolutely. And as we say down in Gullah, Geechee country.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Representative James Clyburn, right here on Straight Shooter with yours truly, Stephen A. Smith. Let's get to this question. When you think about what the Democratic Party has been in recent years and where it is right now, how are you feeling not about being a Democrat, but about being about the state of affairs going on with this Democratic Party. A lot of people look at the Democratic Party right now and they question whether or not there's any true leadership. And do you have somebody that can really, really resonate to a point where you can end off knocking off whatever GOP candidate they throw out there?

[Representative James Clyburn]

Well, you know, Hakeem Jeffries is our leader. Okay. He's an outstanding leader. And one of the things you ought to look for in a leader is who can create a climate within which we can find common ground for everybody to come to the table. That's why those four people signed on to that discharge petition, because Hakeem Jeffress has created a climate in our caucus on the floor that allow them the comfort that they need to come to the issue. For some strange reason, people want to judge leadership by how loud you can talk, but how dramatically you can cuss. That's not Hakeem Jeffress. And quite frankly, that's not Jim Clyburn. I do believe in making headway rather than headlines. And that's what Hakeem Jefferson has been around.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Respectfully, here's where the problem lies. Everything you just described could easily describe the incumbent in office as we speak. Popularity. He's a populist. He can get loud. He can be a bit acerbic. He can do those kind of things. And you said people judge leadership in a certain kind of way. And, and I'm saying to you, well, that's who the president is. And apparently, you know, that's who you would have had to beat in 2024. That didn't work. If J.D. vance, the vice president, decides to mimic Trump's behavior, he'll probably be the popular candidate for 2028. How concerned are you that that's what you have to compete against? And how can you adapt to that?

[Representative James Clyburn]

Well, I don't think we have to adapt to that. And I think that's the problem now. We should not make normal that which is abnormal. That is abnormal behavior that we're getting from this president. And why should you or me, anybody else, try to find ways to make it normal? I don't consider it to be normal to insult. I'm the father of three highly intelligent black women. And when I see someone in office that look for opportunities to insult black women, which is what this president does day in and day out, well, that's normalized.

[Stephen A. Smith]

That's one of the categories. Because to me, he insults everybody. Well, everybody.

[Representative James Clyburn]

Well, nobody should be voting for him. Okay, so 77 million people did. Yes, absolutely. Because people confuse boisterous behavior with leadership.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Is it possible that that's not what they did? That instead what they did was look at the Democratic side and say they didn't like what they were getting? Because the Democratic side didn't represent what James Clyburn stands for. It didn't represent what others have stood for that are traditional members of the Democratic Party. They saw a change shifting within the Democratic Party that leaned a bit further left that were deemed to be just as unreasonable as folks on the far right. And as a result, they chose what they deemed to be the best of two evils per se.

[Representative James Clyburn]

Well, the question is why they didn't see. Maybe they couldn't get beyond gender. And our nominee happened to have been a black or African American, Asian American woman.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Right.

[Representative James Clyburn]

So it's one thing not to be able to get there. It's something else when the reasons you aren't able to get there are not normal and. Or not apropos.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Well, let me say this because I'm not going to say this behind your back and not say it to your face. I'm sitting right here in front of you. I emphatically disagree with what you just alluded to in terms of it might be gender driven. I think about Hillary Rodham Clinton getting 2.9 million votes more than Trump in 2016. I think about Kamala Harris getting nearly 75,5 million votes, the largest for a Democrat in history. I think about governors in New York, governor elects in Jersey in recently Virginia. I think about former speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi, who was considered one of the most influential figures in our nation's history. I think about all of these things And I say those things don't hint towards a gender driven agenda where it's okay because she's a female. I'm not going to vote for her because I think if that was the case, Kamala Harris wouldn't have been immediately inserted even though she had only 107 days to win the election. That's my opinion. And I certainly disagree with Michelle Obama when she said she doesn't think we're ready. I think we're very ready as a country to elect a woman because I think women by and large are smarter, more composed, more disciplined than the men have proven to be. That's my position. You don't feel that way?

[Representative James Clyburn]

I feel that way. I just told you I got three highly intelligent black men. I have two who I have fathers I stayed married to. The Same woman for 58 years would not be where I got to be but for her. I believe all of that. But I also know that there are people, black and white, who will refuse to vote for a woman. I know that and I think you know that. Now the question is when you got an electoral vote. And you can vary in a sophisticated way, target your election, your campaign, so as to make a difference in the states that will yield electoral votes, which is what they did and were successful at it. So Hillary Clinton got 3 million more votes than Trump, but she didn't get elected president.

[Stephen A. Smith]

That's Electoral College.

[Representative James Clyburn]

Yes. And I'm just saying gender and race can make a difference in the Electoral College, which is why I wrote this book.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Okay?

[Representative James Clyburn]

And this book will tell you why these eight people, African Americans, except for one who choose to be an African American, these eight people lost. They're standing in the political community over the issue of race, nothing else. So don't tell me that all of a sudden race does not matter. Historically in this country, it always has.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I would never say race didn't matter. When you say race. I didn't utter a word.

I'm talking about.

When you said. When you said gender, I was saying gender more so all up more.

[Representative James Clyburn]

Men, at the time that they were elected, women were not allowed to vote. Why? If they're so intelligent, as you say, why were they not allowed to vote in the 1870s when these men served? What inspired, just because they were women.

[Stephen A. Smith]

What inspired you to write this book Now? All right, I'm reminded about the first eight. A personal history, A pioneering black congressman who shaped a nation. What inspired you to write it in the year 2025? You've been in Congress since 1993. Why now?

[Representative James Clyburn]

Well, this is my third book.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Okay. By the way, what about this book?

[Representative James Clyburn]

Okay, okay, okay, okay.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I'm just saying this.

[Representative James Clyburn]

I just want you to know I was writing before I got the Congress. I got you. So this book was driven by two things. The first, I undertook the effort because a group of people came to my office one day and asked me about these eight pictures up on my wall. Okay, who are they? And when I explained who they were, one of them said, well, I thought you were the first African American to serve in Congress from South Carolina. And I kind of playfully said, no, before I was first, there were eight. And I said to myself, later that day, I'm going to write my next book is going to be about these eight people. And then when I got into about 60, 70% into the book, the 2020 elections came, and then January 6, 2021 occurred.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Yes. And I said, the insurrection.

[Representative James Clyburn]

Wait a minute. Absolutely, yes. This book has got to be about more than informing. It has to be instructive. So I got back with my editor, and I got back with the publisher, and I said, we got to change directions with this book. So this book took on what I call a cautionary tale. Because when I used to teach history, I used to tell my students all the time, you study this history, not in spite of the fact you may think it's boring. You study it because it's instructive. Anything that's happened before can happen again. Why do you hear people talk about the 1960s at the second reconstruction? The only way you can have a second reconstruction is for there to be a first reconstruction. And if you got a second reconstruction, that means the first one came to an end. And so if the first reconstruction could come to an end, as it did the second one that people talk about from the 1960s, when I was hanging out in jails all over the South.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Yes, you were.

[Representative James Clyburn]

It could come to an end as well. And so this book, Book, I wrote it to be instructed for people. Here is what is happening right before your eyes. Don't make these things normal. That's what happened.

[Stephen A. Smith]

But when you say the word instructive, that's providing instructions on what prevents something. So give it to us. I'm gonna use the lineup to make you smile. You're sitting by, you're leaning on a pillow, and that pillow says the Black Eagle, the one and only. You know, Joe Madison, God rest his soul, and he used to say his favorite line was, imma give it to you. I'm gonna bring it where the goats can get it. That's what he used to say all the time. So give it to us. When you talking about being instructive, what are you instructing folks to do moving forward to prevent the 60s and prior from repeating itself?

[Representative James Clyburn]

Well, let me just say Joe Madison, my best friends.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Yes, a great move. A very close, great man.

[Representative James Clyburn]

Yes, but he was not the first black Eagle. Okay, number eight in this book, George Washington Murray, you will see he was referred to back in the 1890s as the Black Eagle. And so anything that's happened before can happen again. So what I want people to understand that in this book you're going to find that the three most consequential things that happened to black folks after the Civil War were each decided by a single vote. When Andrew Johnson started out to undo what Abraham Lincoln had done with the Emancipation Proclamation and what the Civil War had yielded, he was impeached by the House of Representatives. That impeachments were sent to the Senate and the Senate failed to convict him by a single vote. If he had been convicted then it would have stopped what turned out to be an effort about eight years later in the election between 18 and 1876. Presidential election. The contest was between Rutherford Hayes of Ohio, Samuel Tilden of New York. And when the voting was over in the Electoral College, you needed 185 votes. Tilden had 184. Miss it by one vote and then Hayes had 165. There were 20 votes coming out of three states, three Southern states, Florida, Louisiana and South Carolina. 20 votes in question. If Hayes can get those 20 votes, he goes from 165 to 185 and would become president by one vote. The House couldn't figure out what to do because the election got thrown into the House of Representatives. So the House put together this 15 member commission. So you all go out, you all meet with the candidates, you all come back and make some recommendations as to what we ought to do. These eight, these 15 people met with the candidates and voted eight to seven to give those 20 votes to Hayes. Why? Because Hayes promised them. Give me those votes. I know what you all want. Down there in Florida, over there in Louisiana and there in South Carolina. Give me these 20 votes, I will bring it in to Reconstruction. They gave him the 20 votes. He became president by one vote. The vote was 8 to 7 to end Reconstruction. The vote was 185 to 184 to begin Jim Crow. Wow. That's what this book is all about. To tell you how that happened. It didn't happen because some big groundswell came. No. This country was evenly divided back then, just like it is now. And so if we can retrogress into another Jim Crow era by single votes, your single vote could be the one that caused it. Again, that throughout this book and then I go into the epilogue to tell you how you ought to conduct yourself on this TV show.

[Stephen A. Smith]

On this TV show.

[Representative James Clyburn]

Absolutely.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Really? So.

[Representative James Clyburn]

Okay.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Yeah, I'm sitting right next to you.

[Representative James Clyburn]

Absolutely.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Feel free to tell me. I can take it. No, I'm sitting right here. No, I. Listen, I will listen.

[Representative James Clyburn]

I want you to read this book.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I will read this book especially.

I was going to read it anyway, but especially after what you just said. I'm definitely gonna read it. Make no mistake about it. And I want to worry about that.

[Representative James Clyburn]

And I want your listeners to read it, too. And I want them to look at the headlines that come out every day. And I want you to see what happened back in the 1880s and 90s. I just told you about the Black Eagle. Number seven in this list was called the Canary. They hung nicknames on them meant to be derogatory. They used the judicial system, right. To indict them. Okay, put them in jail to get them out of office.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Right.

[Representative James Clyburn]

So when you hear somebody saying, put her in jail, that's the same thing they were saying back in the 1870s. Same thing.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Well, see, here's. Here's my issue. So I'm sitting right next to you. I'm sitting right next to you. And I'm gonna read. I'm gonna read. I'll read that. But make no mistake about that, I appreciate you giving me the heads up about that. But. But when we're talking about what, the kind of things that you're talking about, some people would look at it and they'd say, okay, that's a moral position to take, and that should absolutely, positively matter. But you also know you're too knowledgeable, you're too smart, you've been around too long not to know that a lot of times the American citizen will shove that aside when they're concerned about their own welfare and their well being, affordability, safety in the streets, etc. And this last election that Kamala Harris lost to Donald Trump, I thought it was the ultimate indictment against the Democratic Party because despite how this incumbent behaves, how he acts, how he talks, the rhetoric he spews, et cetera, America said he's closer to normal than the Democratic Party. That's what they said with their votes.

How do you.

How do you explain that, because people want to know. The Democratic Party, in their eyes, have changed so much. And people like yourself and others who represented a different Democratic Party came across as if you caved to the extreme left. And that and the American people saying, you don't deserve our vote by the majority, they do, because at least they.

Are who they are.

And we know who they are. What the hell about y'? All? What do you say to that?

[Representative James Clyburn]

Well, it all depends on what you choose. You know, I grew up in the parsonage. Now, I decided not to follow my father into the ministry, but when I told my dad that I was not going to go to the seminary, as we had discussed, you know, getting out of jail for the third or fourth time, I figured that wasn't working too well. And so he said to me on that occasion, well, son, I suspect the world would much rather see a sermon than to hear one. And the problem we've got, I think, is summed up in Martin Luther King Jr. S letter from the Birmingham City Jail, when King was asked to leave Birmingham because folks saw him as a disruptive force. But they also said, now, we believe in your cause. Your cause is right, but your timing is wrong. Now, I think that people say, well, it's right that we should have a woman president, but the time ain't right. Your timing is wrong. But you know what King said to them? He said, you know, in that letter, he says, I'm coming to the conclusion that the people of ill will in our society are making a much better use of time than the people of goodwill. And I think that what is happening in our society today is that those people of goodwill have not done a good enough job of making use of their time.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Why haven't they?

[Representative James Clyburn]

Simply because I do believe that we have allowed the people of ill will to normalize things that should not be normalized. There are people who says, just give it time. Just give it time. It'll all work out. No. Time is what we make it. Time is never right. Time is never wrong. Time is always what we make it. And I do not believe that we've done a good enough job in using time. Now, I can prove that to you. Just look at the election results. If you look at when Barack Obama was elected president, and you look at the vote that The Democrats got two years later when we lost North House 64 seats, yes, the other side got the same level of votes that they got in. Barack lost. I mean, the Brock won. Then they came back two years later and got the same Votes. Our vote dropped off.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Okay, so go ahead.

[Representative James Clyburn]

Because I really believe that we have come to the conclusion in all too many instances now, once we elect you, then we expect for you to deliver for us. But we don't have any. We don't need to vote anymore. And that's what happened.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Is it just like Representative Clyburn?

[Representative James Clyburn]

Just look at the results.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I'm just saying. But could it be.

Listen, I am not one to ever sit here and discourage people from voting. You go to the polls, too many sacrifices have been made. I can't stand people that don't vote. I have no respect for them.

Vote.

Vote, dammit, vote.

But the flip side to it, how you vote, you have that level of freedom and is it possible that they didn't vote in your law 64 seats? And you look at the state of the Democratic Party as you transitioning that.

From 2012 to 2016 to 2020 to 2024.

Is it possible that people are looking.

At the Democratic Party and they're saying.

Excuse me, it's not about our disdain.

For him this go round, it's about.

What we don't like from this party. This party doesn't represent what it used to represent when it comes to representing the American citizen. There are people who have been accusing the Democratic Party of doing just that.

[Representative James Clyburn]

Yeah. And you've been one of them. Yes, I have. But let me tell you this. If that were true, why did we get the result we just got in New Jersey? Why did we get the result we just got in Virginia?

[Stephen A. Smith]

Well, they were sweet. I would answer that by saying they.

Were preaching the right message. They weren't talking about the kind of stuff you were talking about leading into the 2024 election.

[Representative James Clyburn]

What do you mean? Like what?

[Stephen A. Smith]

I'm just saying.

Identity politics.

[Representative James Clyburn]

But the President says the photo bills.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Is a hoax and he clearly is wrong. He clearly is wrong.

[Representative James Clyburn]

I mean, we got the only thing he's wrong about.

[Stephen A. Smith]

He's wrong about a lot.

[Representative James Clyburn]

Yes.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I'm not denying that.

[Representative James Clyburn]

So. But he's president, okay? So he got to be President, I think, because the people of goodwill did not do a good enough job and therefore the people of ill will outworked us. And that's why we lost. Remember when we passed the Affordable Care Act?

[Stephen A. Smith]

Okay.

[Representative James Clyburn]

And we lost because we allowed the other side to define what we had done.

[Stephen A. Smith]

But Representative Clapper, that's where I'm going. I'm saying, when you say the people.

Of goodwill allowed the people of ill will to do X, Y and Z.

You'Re Talking about just the other side of the aisle. I'm talking about your side of the aisle, too. There were people on your side of the aisle that wasn't deemed as having goodwill necessarily. They were going against the likes of you and others. They felt that y' all weren't being strong enough. Y' all weren't being as leftist as.

[Representative James Clyburn]

You needed to be because people mistake strength for boisterous. You know, if you yell loud enough, you call them names, you be boisterous, man, you sure enough give them hell. Well, the question is, what did we do? That's the question. I don't think I have to use profanity in order to be effective.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna mention any names, but.

You know, you got a governor in.

California, you got a representative in Texas, you got a representative in New York, along with various others that used similar language. And the Democratic Party didn't seem to.

Have a problem with that.

[Representative James Clyburn]

Oh, yes, I've always had a problem with him. If I didn't have a problem with him, I would use it.

[Stephen A. Smith]

All right?

[Representative James Clyburn]

You never heard me use it. Right. Because I got a problem with it.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Got it.

[Representative James Clyburn]

I try to conduct myself in office the way I want my grandchildren to see their elective official conduct themselves. I'm not going to use words as a congressman from South Carolina that I want my grandchildren to be comfortable using when they go to first and second grade. If that be the case, let me ask. So what I'm saying is, I believe that you all mistake loudness with proudness.

[Stephen A. Smith]

You talk about me personally? You said anybody. I just.

[Representative James Clyburn]

Anybody.

[Stephen A. Smith]

No, it sounded like you said me.

I'm just. Sorry.

I apologize. I'm just making.

[Representative James Clyburn]

There's another thing we said country. A hit dog will holler.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Representative Clyburn, right here with your straight shooter with George. Truly, you got.

You know, listen, you're viewed as a kingmaker. You got. Everybody knows that if it wasn't for your endorsement and your support of Joe Biden in 2020, heading into the South Carolina primaries, that he probably would not have won the election. As we fast forward to the year 2025, how do you feel about being recognized in that regard? How do you feel about Joe Biden's presidency? And most importantly, how do you feel about how he departed?

[Representative James Clyburn]

Because I believe Joe Biden, when historians look back on what he did in office, when he passed the rescue plan that brought this economy out of the ditch, when he passed the largest infrastructure bill in the history of the country, bigger than Eisenhower's big interstate highway. It started a revolution and let's just say an innovation in our water systems, our highways, people getting safe drinking water for the first time. He passed the inflation reduction act and said that insulin. My late wife battled diabetes for 30 years. She lost that battle. She lost that battle after having five vessel bypass, a stroke, total kidney failure. She was paying 6, 7 and $800 a month for insulin. She was a full shot a day. Diabetic. Joe Biden says this country got the rights to insulin for $1 and we should not be misusing it that way. So we could put a cap on insulin for everybody on Medicare to $35 a month. Do you know what a difference that made? Huge in the lives of people like my late wife? Now she could afford the six and seven hundred dollars a month, but people without insurance, people, even with the Affordable Care act, they couldn't. And Joe Biden did that. Joe Biden, the PAC act. How many people you know, I mean, they were classmates of mine. They may have been classmates of your parents. I just had the 46th anniversary of my 39th birthday. So, you know, so I got grandchildren almost your age. But look, when he passed the pack out, you know what the PAC act did? The PAC act went back and picked up all those soldiers coming back from the Vietnam War that was getting 5 and 10% disability when they were entitled to 95 and 100%. We did that with the PAC act, you can go through Joe Biden's entire record and it will be surpassed only by one modern president, and that's Lyndon Bands Johnson.

[Stephen A. Smith]

But we all know.

[Representative James Clyburn]

And the history is going to do that for you.

[Stephen A. Smith]

But we all know, listen, Father Tom is undefeated.

[Representative James Clyburn]

Yeah.

[Stephen A. Smith]

And it affects all of us differently.

[Representative James Clyburn]

Yeah.

[Stephen A. Smith]

He was on that debate stage against Trump June 27th of 2020 24. It was not a good look.

[Representative James Clyburn]

No, it wasn't.

[Stephen A. Smith]

It was not a good look. And that's what led to him departing and Kamala Harris getting the Democratic nomination. What one would ask is somebody as yourself, being as cogent, as lucid, is on top of his game as anybody? What someone would ask of you is that, did you see a person that was ready? Did you see a person that needed to go? Did you have those conversations with him? Because even to this day people ask that, because the other side will say that was what they were willing to give the American people. And they'll use that as a tool to condemn the Democratic Party. They'll throw anything. They'll throw any kind of wool over your eyes. Just to get what they want. Now, we could easily accuse the other side of doing the same, but nevertheless, they position the Democratic Party to be viewed that way. What do you say to that?

[Representative James Clyburn]

I would say that they're right to raise those questions. You asked me, did I see that? No, I saw it when you just saw it. I didn't live with Joe Biden. He wasn't in my office. I wasn't in his office. I didn't see him every day. And when I saw that debate, I had the same concerns that everybody else had about debate. Now, the question then becomes, was that a one off or was that indicative of a situation that would continue? Look, how many of you in the audience have ever been looking for your cell phone and had it in your hand? I mean, that's ridiculous. It happens. And so is that what happened to him? Or was that some condition that would last? Now, I think most people felt that it was a condition rather than a one off, and I can understand that. But if you ask me, did I see that? Okay, not until that evening, before I.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Let you get on out of here, because we only got a few minutes left. And I thank you for your time. I truly am honored to have you. I got to ask you this. The midterms are approaching.

[Representative James Clyburn]

Yep.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Next year. How are you feeling about your party, the state of this in right now? And I know Hakeem Jeffries as a leader of the House. I'm talking about a candidate out there that has national appeal, that can galvanize the Democratic Party to go up against guys on the other side of the aisle. How confident are you feeling you guys will find that for the midterms and ultimately heading into 2028, let me tell.

[Representative James Clyburn]

You, I'm as confident about that as I am about anything that I've ever encountered. I just came in this week. Past weekend I spent in Philadelphia. I last week, even before I've been in Tennessee, Kentucky, I did a podcast with Beshear, the governor of Kentucky. I'm getting ready to do a podcast with the governor of California. I'm on the phone often with the governor of Maryland. I'm on my way back to New York after the holidays. And I'm going to tell you, we've got candidates out there that I believe are waiting in the wings and waiting for the arena to be established. And I think the American people are going to be very, very pleased with the choices that we're going to give them.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I like Westmore a lot out of Maryland. I like Josh Shapiro a lot out of Pennsylvania. I'm worried about Gavin Newsom with affordability issues in California. That's where I'm at with that, with Gavin Newsom. And I think he's got a lot of questions to answer about what's been going on in the state of California in order for him to have a real viable chance. But I think Westmore is the real deal. I think Josh Shapiro is the real deal as well.

[Representative James Clyburn]

Absolutely. In fact, I was on the stage. I shared the stage Sunday with Shapiro. I think he's an outstanding governor. I think it was an outstanding attorney general. And I think that if he were to make the choice, he would be an outstanding candidate for president. And so would Westmore, so would Gavin Newsom, so would Bashir. And there are others out there who have not gotten the chance yet to share the stage with. But when I get back to New York, I will.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Is there a female candidate out there.

[Representative James Clyburn]

That the governor of Michigan falls in that category?

[Stephen A. Smith]

Governor Whitman.

[Representative James Clyburn]

Whitman is a outstanding governor.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Okay.

[Representative James Clyburn]

Yeah.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Okay. I just wanted to make sure you had female. Because I didn't want to leave out female names. I didn't want to be accused leaving out female names.

[Representative James Clyburn]

Well, I'll be the last person in the world to leave women out of this because I have to go home.

[Stephen A. Smith]

My last question to you is that this book. What are you hoping. Got about a minute left. What are you hoping we walk away grasping, holding on to, and ultimately learning from this book.

[Representative James Clyburn]

Holding on to the fact that that every single vote counts. And it's in this book. Holding on to the fact that we all have roles to play. These eight people, all African Americans, won by choice. Only three of the eight were ever enslaved. You had one of the most outstanding lawyers to ever walk the earth. And Robert Brown Elliot was one of these eight people. The only genuine hero of the Civil War. Robert Smalls was number six in this group. Know that they were different. They didn't agree all the time, but learned from this book the value of being agreeable.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I gotta go. Show's over. I wanna thank you for being here, honored and privileged to have you. I've been an admirer of yours for a long time. I'm gonna watch my tone. I'm gonna watch everything moving forward. Cause I wanna make sure that Representative Clyburn is not displeased with me. And I want you to also know you're welcome back to the show anytime.

[Representative James Clyburn]

Well, thank you so much. Make sure that the little children out there are also pleased with you.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Absolutely.

[Representative James Clyburn]

Be an example.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Yes, sir. I have my instructions. Ladies and gentlemen, Representative Clyburn with yours truly. Honored and privileged to have you, sir. Until next time, ladies and gentlemen. Happy holidays to all of you. Stephen A. Signing off. Peace and love. Happy New Year. See you in the new year.

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