Stephen A's Take: Tucker Carlson claims that DEI policies make him less trusting of marginalized people.

Summary

The Stephen A. Smith Show: In-Depth Analysis of Tucker Carlson’s Critique on DEI Policies

Episode Title: Stephen A's Take: Tucker Carlson claims that DEI policies make him less trusting of marginalized people
Release Date: March 14, 2025
Host: Stephen A. Smith and iHeartPodcasts

---

Introduction

In this compelling episode of The Stephen A. Smith Show, host Stephen A. Smith delves into a controversial discussion sparked by conservative commentator Tucker Carlson. The episode scrutinizes Carlson’s assertions regarding Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI) policies and their impact on societal trust towards marginalized communities. Drawing from a segment between Carlson and Chris Cuomo on News Nation, Smith provides a critical analysis, offering his renowned perspectives on the intersection of meritocracy, race, and systemic structures.

---

Context of the Discussion

The episode centers around a conversation initially between Tucker Carlson and Chris Cuomo, where Carlson posits that DEI policies contribute to a distrust of marginalized groups. Stephen A. Smith, reacting to this dialogue, dissects Carlson's viewpoints, highlighting the broader implications of such narratives on society.

---

Key Discussions and Insights

1. Meritocracy and Societal Imbalance

   • Carlson’s Argument: Carlson asserts that a pure meritocracy leads to an "incredibly lopsided society," favoring certain groups over others inherently.

     • Quote (01:29): “It became obvious that the meritocracy was producing an incredibly lopsided society and that freaked people out and it felt unfair to them.”

   • Smith’s Counterpoint: Smith challenges this notion, arguing that historical and systemic advantages have disproportionately benefited white individuals, questioning the fairness of attributing societal imbalance solely to meritocracy.

     • Quote (02:15): “White men run this country, if not this world. And what Tucker Carlson basically said was… white folks got their stuff on merit and everybody else maybe not so much.”

2. Impact of DEI Policies

   • Carlson’s Stance: DEI policies, according to Carlson, undermine merit-based advancement and foster division by emphasizing race over individual achievement.

   • Smith’s Response: Smith contends that DEI initiatives are essential in addressing historical inequities and that Carlson oversimplifies complex societal dynamics by attributing trust issues solely to these policies.

     • Quote (05:16): “Because when you use words like lopsidedness to describe a meritocracy, and that meritocracy vastly favored people that look just like Tucker Carlson…”

3. Systemic Challenges Beyond Race

   • Cuomo’s Perspective: Chris Cuomo emphasizes that systemic challenges extend beyond race, citing factors like socioeconomic status, education quality, and familial responsibilities that impede individuals' potential.

     • Quote (04:34): “I was in the streets all the time because my mother had to work two jobs… that was taking up your time instead of you hitting the books and doing what you have to do.”

   • Smith’s Analysis: Smith agrees, highlighting that meritocracy cannot be assessed in a vacuum without considering unequal starting points and external impediments that disproportionately affect marginalized communities.

     • Quote (06:36): “If everybody is suffering, is experiencing the same conditions… does everybody have the same limited amount of distractions?… the conditions are not the same.”

4. Influence of Power Structures and Media Figures

   • Smith’s Observation: Smith critiques the concentration of power among similar demographic groups, pointing out figures like Elon Musk and Tucker Carlson who wield significant influence without traditional checks.

     • Quote (07:04): “Do we not see a guy like Elon Musk who's unelected?… Power matters. Influence matters.”

   • Concerns Raised: The unchecked influence of such figures can perpetuate biased narratives that favor their perspectives, further entrenching societal divisions.

     • Quote (09:38): “He's free as a bird to operate with relative impunity, to say whatever it is he wants to say. That's pretty damn scary if you don't fall under the umbrella of merit or a meritocracy that he feels you should.”

---

Notable Quotes with Attribution and Timestamps

• Tucker Carlson (01:29): “It became obvious that the meritocracy was producing an incredibly lopsided society and that freaked people out and it felt unfair to them.”

• Chris Cuomo (01:57): “I was very uncomfortable hearing that from Tucker Carlson. Let me be very, very clear.”

• Stephen A. Smith (02:02): “Meritocracy created a lopsided environment, ladies and gentlemen. I don't know how you took that.”

• Stephen A. Smith (02:15): “White men run this country, if not this world… white folks got their stuff on merit and everybody else maybe not so much.”

• Stephen A. Smith (05:16): “…you’re pointing the finger at DEI, diversity, equity, inclusion, as if that’s what’s gotten black folks opportunities, not their merit.”

• Stephen A. Smith (07:04): “Do we not see a guy like Elon Musk who's unelected?… Power matters. Influence matters.”

• Stephen A. Smith (09:38): “He’s free as a bird to operate with relative impunity, to say whatever it is he wants to say. That’s pretty damn scary…”

---

Conclusions and Final Thoughts

Stephen A. Smith wraps up the episode by emphasizing the complexity of societal structures and the inadequacy of attributing trust and societal imbalance solely to meritocracy or DEI policies. He underscores the necessity of recognizing historical inequities, systemic barriers, and the profound impact of concentrated power among influential figures. Smith calls for a more nuanced understanding of meritocracy—one that accounts for unequal starting points and the multifaceted challenges faced by marginalized communities. He urges listeners to critically assess the narratives propagated by influential media personalities and to advocate for policies that genuinely promote equity and inclusion.

---

Implications for the Audience

For listeners who may not be familiar with the episode, Smith's analysis offers a thoughtful critique of Tucker Carlson's viewpoints, encouraging a deeper examination of how meritocracy and DEI policies interplay within the broader societal context. The discussion serves as a catalyst for conversations about race, power, and the true meaning of fairness and equality in contemporary America.

---

Note: This summary focuses solely on the content-rich segments of the episode, omitting advertisements, introductions, and other non-essential sections to provide a clear and comprehensive overview of the key discussions and insights presented.

Transcript

[Isaac Mizrahi]

Hi, I'm Isaac Mizrahi and I've got a new podcast called hello Isaac. During my career I've made friends with some amazing celebrities and experts and I'm always curious about their paths to success. On this podcast I get to share our fun and intimate conversations with you friends like Andy Cohen, Margaret Cho, BenDeLaCreme, Belinda Carlisle, Jesse Tyler Ferguson and Carson Kressley, just to name a few. Listen to hello Isaac on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway. It's Stock up Savings time now through March 25th. Spring in for storewide deals and earn four times the points. Look for in store tags to earn on eligible beverage items from San Pellegrino and Pepsi or breakfast favorites like Chobani, Greek Yogurt, Dan and Oikos yogurt and Pete's Coffee, plus many more. Then clip the offer in our app for automatic event long savings. Stack up those rewards to save even more restrictions apply. Visit Albertsons or Safeway.com for more details.

[Chris Cuomo]

Get started with the conversation not on politics, not on sports, but on race Conversation I heard recently between Chris Cuomo of News Nation and conservative commentator Tucker Carlson. The interview was a wide ranging conversation that touched on a number of topics including quotas and dei. Don't believe me? Tucker Carlson aired it first and then obviously News Nation neared aired a snippet of it. Take a look what I'm about to show you.

[Tucker Carlson]

It became obvious that the meritocracy was producing an incredibly lopsided society and that freaked people out and it felt unfair to them. The meritocracy produces an outcome that you may not be ready for actually, because it's rooted in nature and you can't change it. So these are super complicated questions, but I know that a system that rewards people on the basis of race and punishes others on the basis of race creates hatred and division.

[Chris Cuomo]

I was very uncomfortable hearing that from Tucker Carlson. Let me be very, very clear.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Meritocracy created a lopsided environment, ladies and gentlemen. I don't know how you took that.

[Chris Cuomo]

But let me tell you how I take it. We live in a white power structure society.

[Stephen A. Smith]

White men run this country, if not this world. And what Tucker Carlson basically said there was if you're saying a meritocracy, that that is what existed and when that existed before the likes of affirmative action, before civil rights legislation, before dei, et cetera, et cetera. If you're saying a meritocracy created a lopsided society. And that lopsided society was in the favor of white folks. Then, essentially, what you're saying is white folks got their stuff on merit and everybody else maybe not so much. That's how I took it. That's what I heard. What did y'all hear? What?

[Unknown]

What?

[Stephen A. Smith]

What did y'all hear? That's what I heard. That's what I heard. That is why I was so uncomfortable speaking to Chris Cuomo last night, because I was a guest on his show in the immediate aftermath of about seven to eight minutes of Chris Cuomo talking to Tucker Carlson. I had not seen it up until that moment, and they needed me to open on it. So before I even delve further into this subject, let me air for you what I said to Chris Cuomo last night in the immediate aftermath of hearing what Tucker Carlson had to say. Check it out.

[Unknown]

He was dismissive of the cult of the racial construct notion that you brought to his attention, not realizing how palpable and how insulting, dare I say, that, would come across to so many African Americans in this country. The fact of the matter is, is that covering the world of sports, think about it from this perspective. They were telling folks, they were telling the black man he couldn't play the quarterback position. You were telling the black man he couldn't be a head coach. You were telling the black man that he couldn't be a leader of men. Let's not get started with what you were telling the black women. And over the course of time, we've seen how exceptional people from all races are and can be, and we see how defic others can be. Then you also have to take into account the kind of society that we lived in. Remember, I got left back in the fourth grade because I had a first grade reading level, okay. And I had undiagnosed dyslexia that I ultimately had to overcome. What was one of the challenges of overcoming it.

[Chris Cuomo]

I was in the streets all the.

[Unknown]

Time because my mother had to work two jobs because my father wasn't handling his business appropriately. And as a result, there was a weight on the shoulders of my entire family. And so as a result, sometimes you found yourself running the streets. Sometimes you found yourself being preoccupied with things you shouldn't be preoccupied with. And as a result, that was taking up your time instead of you hitting the books and doing what you have to do. He didn't mention any of those kind of things. He didn't mention any of the potential obstacles that could lie in wait. He simply wanted to lean on race, talking to the potential intelligence or lack thereof of a race of people and what have you. And I just said to myself, wow, he really, really seems a bit detached from reality.

[Stephen A. Smith]

And I was being nice. I was being very, very nice. I could have said some other things, but I don't know him like that. Don't want to accuse the brother, anything. But the bottom line is I was very uncomfortable listening to him because when you use words like lopsidedness to describe a meritocracy, and that meritocracy vastly favored people that look just like Tucker Carlson. And you're lamenting the state of affairs that exist in society today, and you're pointing the finger at dei, diversity, equity, inclusion, as if that's what's gotten black folks opportunities, not their merit. If you're alluding to stuff like affirmative action, civil rights legislation, or anything else that occurred in the aftermath of Jim Crow laws, that certainly was suppressive, and you're pointing to those things to indicate there's a problem in our society, what you're saying is it's a problem because we're no longer judging anything on merit. So that means whatever's going on in our society today, whatever opportunities are lacking for, quote, unquote, the white establishment, then, excuse me, it can't be about merit. Let's get back to merit. And this is, to me, what Tucker Carlson came across as not getting.

[Chris Cuomo]

Let's say, for example, 30 positions was filled.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Because in, if you watch the interview he was talking about, you know, hey, what's up with all of these communities?

[Chris Cuomo]

Black community, Hispanic community?

[Stephen A. Smith]

We're just individuals. We're people. We're people.

[Chris Cuomo]

All of us are at the mercy of a system. We're a nation of rules. We're a nation of laws. We're supposed to be. And if that's what's going on in.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Our world, well, who's hovering over it? Who's the puppeteer pulling the strings? Do we not see the Democrats right now lamenting everything about Donald Trump's power? Do we not see the influence that power can wield? Do we not see a guy in Elon Musk who's unelected? His position is overdose does not require Senate confirmation or anything like that? Do we not see the power that he's willing when he's essentially an advisor and a consultant to the president, but clearly somebody who gets the president to do a lot of what he says? Power matters. Influence matters. And when it's almost always in the hands of people that look like Tucker Carlson, where does that leave the rest of us. If a Tucker Carlson is on the airwaves spewing that, that's the kind of meritocracy we should want. Is it just me? Is it just me? And then you want test scores, standardized test scores. I get that part. If everybody is suffering, is experiencing the same conditions, same qualities of schools and education, same quality of teachers, same qualities of life, having to walk through the streets of America to get to school, does everybody have to take mass transit? Does everybody have to take the train? Does every have to. Does everyone have to walk through impoverished neighborhoods, rough streets, crime? Does everybody have the same limited amount of distractions? Yes or no? The answer to that would be no. Which means the conditions are not the same. Which means to just use something generic that's supposed to be applicable to everyone when everyone's situations and circumstances and what is available to them and what they're exposed to is not the same. In Tucker Carson's world, none of that.

[Chris Cuomo]

Should be taken into consideration.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Based on what I heard.

[Chris Cuomo]

What does that leave us? That's where I'm coming from. That's my problem with what he said. That's what made me incredibly, incredibly uncomfortable.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Because when you see people lamenting politicians.

[Chris Cuomo]

Who are in office and looking at them, their personality, their experiences, the influence that they wield and where their soul lies. When you found yourself listening to Tucker Carlson, as I listened to him last night, I just got the impression, wow, this is not a dude that sees much outside of his bubble that he either is willing to relate to or have compassion for. I might be wrong with that. I don't know. I'm only going by what I saw. It looks very uncomfortable because his voice resonates and it resonates with people who have influence. And if they're listening to him, what kind of influence are they willing to exercise and what role is he playing in it? He's no longer at Fox News, no longer CNN and msnbc. He's got his own social media following. He's free as a bird to operate with relative impunity, to say whatever it is he wants to say. That's pretty damn scary if you don't fall under the umbrella of merit or a meritocracy that he feels you should. Just my thoughts based off of what I.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway. It's stock up savings time now through March 25th. Spring in for store wide deals and earn four times the points look for in store tags to earn on eligible beverage items from San Pellegrino and Pepsi or breakfast favorites like Chobani, Greek Yogurt, Dan and Oikio's Yogurt and Pete's Coffee, plus many more. Then clip the offer in our app for automatic event long savings. Stack up those rewards to save even more restrictions apply. Visit Albertsons or Safeway.com for more details.

[Unknown]

You know more about the PayPal debit card than you did at the start of this podcast. You know that the PayPal debit card gives you the ability to pay everywhere. You know that you earn 5% cash back on a category of your choosing on up to $1,000 of monthly purchases. And you know that you get to pick a new category every month. Apparel for back to school Groceries for the holidays. Start earning 5% cash back with the PayPal debit card today. Don't just pay PayPal terms apply. See PayPal app. This card is issued by the Bancorp Bank N.A. pursuant to license by MasterCard International, Inc.