SWALWELL/GONZALES RESIGNATION; JEN PSAKI; LEON PANETTA

Summary

---

Podcast Summary: The Stephen A. Smith Show (April 16, 2026)

Episode: SWALWELL/GONZALES RESIGNATION; JEN PSAKI; LEON PANETTA

---

Episode Overview

Stephen A. Smith’s latest episode of Straight Shooter takes a hard look beyond sports, diving deep into explosive political scandals, the culture of sex and power in Washington, the shifting landscape of both parties, and America’s latest war in Iran. With high-profile guests Jen Psaki and Leon Panetta, Stephen A. explores everything from Capitol Hill's moral rot to the impact of leadership failures in DC. Listener calls bring authenticity and a range of sharply-felt opinions.

---

1. The Politics of Sex, Power, and Scandal on Capitol Hill

[01:26–10:10]

Key Points:

• Stephen A. boldly kicks off with a “real conversation about sex” in politics—no sugar-coating, no evasions. The context: Eric Swalwell’s shocking resignation following multiple rape and assault allegations.
• He highlights how these scandals are not isolated and references an LA Times article on how the “Swalwell scandal sparks fears of deeper rot on Capitol Hill.”
• Suggests a bipartisan culture of predatory sexual behavior among politicians, referencing both recent (Swalwell, Tony Gonzalez) and historic scandals (Clinton, Gingrich, Spitzer, Trump, and more).

Notable Quotes:

• “Sometimes it’s necessary... Sex makes the world go around and ultimately has led to the demise of many men.” – Stephen A. [01:36]
• “The 72-hour collapse of Swalwell's political career has shifted attention... to a larger set of sitting lawmakers from both parties suspected of lurid sexual activity.” – Stephen A. (reading article) [06:06]
• “You lose your damn mind. Father Time is undefeated. Have you ever seen anybody defeat sex? Inquiring minds want to know.” – Stephen A. [08:41]

Noteworthy Segment:

• Reading of Resignation Letters: Both Swalwell’s and Tony Gonzalez’s resignations are played on-air, showcasing bipartisan misconduct and the gravity of current congressional crises. [10:48–12:01]

---

2. Accusations of Sexual Misconduct — Survivor and Accountability

[12:02–20:38]

Key Insights:

• A survivor, “Lana,” gives a harrowing account of alleged rape and assault by Swalwell, including accusations of being drugged and choked. Stephen A. handles the sensitive nature with caution, emphasizing the difference between accusations and proof, but underscores the serious implications for Congress.
• Commentary on the hypocrisy of politicians who previously championed “believe the women”—specifically, using Swalwell’s own words during the Kavanaugh hearings against him in the current moment.

Memorable Moments:

• “I believe he drugged my drink... He raped me and he choked me. And while he was choking me, I lost consciousness. I thought I died.” – Alleged victim Lana [12:38]
• “When I use the phrase, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it ain’t a damn mongoose.” – Stephen A. [13:31]

---

3. The Long American Tradition of Sex Scandals

[17:58–20:38]

Key Points:

• Stephen A. rapidly lists a history of major sex scandals: Gary Hart, Bill Clinton, Newt Gingrich, Jim McGreevey, Eliot Spitzer, John Edwards, Larry Craig, Mark Sanford, Anthony Weiner, Dennis Hastert, Al Franken, John Conyers, and, of course, Donald Trump.
• He uses these examples to highlight systemic issues: “That’s the stuff we decided to report. Don’t let me go back further with JFK, Ted Kennedy…” [20:22]

Notable Tone:

• Blunt, incredulous—“You can’t make this shit up. It’s unbelievable.”
• “Sex is what’s really undefeated.” – Stephen A. [20:39]

---

4. Guest Spotlight: Jen Psaki on Democratic Failures and Trump’s Rise

[24:09–36:50 & 36:50–47:32]

Interview Highlights:

On Role as Press Secretary:

• Jen describes the role as multi-faceted, serving both the President and the public—striving for transparency, especially during COVID.
• “When I was in that job for Joe Biden, I felt like my job was speaking on behalf of the government... This time it’s like looking for a high five from the president.” – Jen Psaki [24:33]

On Democrats Losing 2024:

• Stephen A.: “I view [Trump’s win] as the Democrats having lost it. They blew it. They basically gift wrapped it to him...” [29:50]
• Jen Psaki: “A lot of people just didn’t feel heard or didn’t feel like they could identify with... the Democratic Party. Sometimes I think Democrats talk a little bit like they’re in an ivory tower academic Harvard class.” [30:17–33:32]

On Democratic Messaging:

• “If you lose everything, you have to reflect on what went poorly… sometimes there can be a little ‘litmus testy’ feeling about who’s allowed to be a Democrat.” – Jen Psaki [44:26]

On the Swalwell/Gonzales Scandals’ Impact:

• “First I felt sickened by it… saddened and sickening that this is what people who are in college or in the early 20s are seeing about the kind of behavior that happens on the Hill.” – Jen Psaki [37:30]
• She commends Democrats’ swifter action in pushing out Swalwell.

On Fractures on the Right:

• Discusses rising MAGA infighting and the war in Iran fracturing Trump's base.
• “You have Trump picking a fight with the Pope... these are not the type of comments that are going to sit well with people who have been a base of supporters.” – Jen Psaki [41:26]

On Progressives vs. MAGA:

• She critiques both extreme partisanships, warning that too much outrage can become counterproductive and that Democrats need to invite a broader coalition to win.

Advice for Democrats in 2026 and 2028:

• “Show up where people don’t expect you. Don’t just go to friendly audiences... Don’t worry so much about what the polls tell you about messaging. The point is, you come across as inauthentic.” – Jen Psaki [48:07]

---

5. Guest Spotlight: Leon Panetta on War, Trump, and Congressional Failure

[53:42–76:50]

Interview Highlights:

On US-Iran War:

• Panetta laments lack of strategy: “I just get this sense that today we’re floundering, we’re bouncing around... I don’t know that anybody’s in charge.” [56:09]
• Argues the Trump/Netanyahu partnership created a disastrous miscalculation about Iran, making the regime stronger instead of toppling it.
• “We are now, as far as I’m concerned, in another endless war in the Middle East.” – Leon Panetta [59:47]

On Presidential (In)Competence:

• “No president should be afraid to have bright people in the room that may know more than he does.” [64:17]
• Criticizes Trump for not listening to intelligence and operating unilaterally.

On Iran’s Nuclear Threat:

• Panetta reveals: “They were within, I think, a few weeks of being able to [develop a nuclear weapon].” [73:23]
• Admits the attack on Iran’s enrichment facilities was a necessary move, but condemns the lack of follow-through and diplomatic plan.

On Dysfunction in Washington:

• Panetta’s biggest fear isn't foreign enemies—but domestic dysfunction:
  • “The worst thing right now is the dysfunction in Washington... rather than doing what's right... they're just crossing their fingers that somehow the country will be okay.” [73:45–76:50]
  • “In a democracy, we govern either by leadership or by crisis. If that leadership isn’t there, we’ll govern by crisis. And that, unfortunately, is where we’re at today.” [75:39]

---

6. Engaged Listener Calls: Policy, Character, and the Binary Vote

[78:55–102:44]

Major Themes from Callers:

• Policy vs. Personality: Moses, a former Marine, says he votes solely on policy, not personality: “The only thing that matters... is policy.” [83:53]
• Stephen A. challenges, stressing the importance of leadership character: “If I were the commander in chief... I’m not going to do something willy-nilly because I want to.” [81:00]
• Binary System Frustrations: Multiple callers debate how, in a two-party system, many are forced to choose what they believe is the lesser evil, not always someone they admire.
• Accountability & Hypocrisy: Several callers push back on both parties for past lies and scandals, highlighting cynicism with “experts” and “insider elites.”
• Dissent & Respect: Stephen A. repeatedly insists on acknowledging that voters on both sides vote their interests, and not all Trump voters are cultists; many are motivated by specific policies and disgust for DC’s status quo.

---

7. Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Sex is what’s really undefeated.” – Stephen A. [20:39]
• “Sometimes I think Democrats talk a little bit like they’re in an ivory tower academic Harvard class.” – Jen Psaki [33:32]
• “We are now... in another endless war in the Middle East.” – Leon Panetta [59:47]
• “If the third former Secretary of Defense and the former director of the CIA and the former White House Chief of Staff doesn’t qualify as an expert, excuse my language, who the f— does?” – Stephen A. [98:02]
• “I thought [Trump depicting himself as Jesus] was disgraceful. I thought it was an insult to Christians and Catholics everywhere.” – Stephen A. [90:53]
• “The end doesn’t always justify the means because you don’t know what you can trust in the throes of action.” – Stephen A. [82:16]
• “We can’t summarily dismiss people... because they didn’t make the choice we thought they should make—respect the choice, even if it’s wrong.” – Stephen A. [96:40]

---

8. Key Timestamps for Reference

• Swalwell/Gonzalez resignations & Congressional culture: 01:26–12:38
• Victim’s account & accountability: 12:38–15:36
• Historic sex scandals rundown: 17:58–20:38
• Interview: Jen Psaki: 24:09–50:21
• Interview: Leon Panetta: 53:42–77:12
• Lightning round of listener calls on policy and politics: 78:55–102:44

---

Summary Takeaway

This wide-ranging episode rides the chaos of America in 2026—scandal, war, gridlock, and hope. With signature frankness, Stephen A. exposes both the rot and the rare attempts at accountability in politics, gets blunt honesty from Jen Psaki about Democratic mistakes, and draws on Leon Panetta’s wisdom to diagnose what’s truly broken in Washington. Listener calls deepen the realness—this is “Straight Shooter” at its most raw, relevant, and eye-opening.

---

Transcript

[Commercial Announcer]

There's no small business like your small business. The Hartford can help protect your company. With decades of experience delivering speed, ease and accuracy. Get a quote or find an [e-mail] smallbusiness. You're more than just one thing. You're the boss. Hey, Google, what time is my meeting with Tim today? The athlete that class wrecks me. The ringleader. And we're good and always their mom. Everyone in all new Mazda CX5 more to move every side of you. Learn [e-mail] Google is a trademark of Google LLC. Sequences shortened and simulated.

[Stephen A.]

Straight Shooter with Stephen A.

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

What's up, everybody? Welcome to the latest edition of Straight Shooter with yours truly, Stephen A. Straight Shooter with Stephen A. Coming at you every Wednesday night.

[Stephen A.]

Over to airwaves of SiriusXM POTUS radio channel 124.

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

Number to call up, as always is 86696 POTUS. That's 86696 POTUS. Today's monologue.

[Stephen A.]

Not gonna tell you my producer's name. I want to provide everybody cover because

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

where I'm going to go today, I will openly confess.

[Stephen A.]

Gonna make some people uncomfortable.

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

Ladies and gentlemen, today we're gonna talk about sex. We're gonna have a real conversation about sex right here on potus radio, channel 124. That's right. I'm going there because sometimes it's necessary. See, sex makes the world go around and ultimately has led to the demise of many men. The latest nugget of evidence is that of Representative. Now former Representative Eric Swalwell, based out of the state of California, who had to officially resign his seat in Congress. In the immediate aftermath of these scandals, allegations and accusations of rape and sexual assault has led to his demise. First, it was the cancellation of his gubernatorial campaign for the governor's seat in California. I am suspending my campaign for governor, he wrote on April 12. To my family, staff, friends and supporters. I am deeply sorry for the mistakes and judgment I've made into my past. I will fight the serious false allegations that have been made, but that's my fight, not a campaign's. See that third line there? Sorry for the mistakes in judgment.

[Stephen A.]

You knew something was wrong right there.

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

You knew something was wrong. And in the end, what it comes down to is that he was married and he had a proclivity for getting loose outside of his marriage. And it regressed into him being accused of rape to the point where we've seen one woman whose identity wasn't revealed being interviewed, I believed on cnn where she said she woke up in bed by herself and she was naked and had felt like she had been touched,

[Stephen A.]

to say the least.

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

You had another woman who just came out yesterday on camera showing you her full identity and uttering the word raped. He raped me. Eric Swalwell is in a world of trouble. These are criminal accusations.

[Stephen A.]

This is not about his congressional seat anymore. His political career is over.

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

It's over. This is about a former prosecutor that is now on the verge of being officially prosecuted because accusations of rape have been levied against him. And he's going to have to find a way to defend himself in the court of law. That's what this is looking like. Having said that, believe it or not,

[Stephen A.]

that is not where my alarm lies. That is not where my antennas have raised exponentially.

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

It is based off of this article within the Los Angeles Times written yesterday titled Swallow Swalwell Scandal sparks fears of deeper rot on Capitol Hill.

[Stephen A.]

Let me read the first few graphs to y'.

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

All.

[Stephen A.]

Eric Swalwell's downfall has raised the possibility of a broader reckoning on Capitol Hill

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

as congressional staffers, reporters and opposition researchers race to verify law, longstanding rumors of a sordid underground culture among the city's most powerful. Former lawmakers across the political spectrum have warned for years of a hushed congressional back channel marked by inappropriate revelry and sexual misconduct. But a sense of growing momentum gripped Congress on Tuesday as Democrats grappled with Swalwell's resignation and Republicans called for other

[Stephen A.]

lawmakers to face scrutiny.

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

The 72 hour collapse of Swalwell's political

[Stephen A.]

career has shifted attention not only to

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

his closest associates in Congress, but also to a larger set of sitting lawmakers from both parties suspected of lurid sexual activity. Several members have claimed that Swalwell's alleged behavior was an open secret amid a cacophony of, of rumors on social media of other potential offenders. I mean, damn.

[Stephen A.]

So I guess Donald Trump wasn't the only one allegedly engaging in unsavory and dare we say, illegal sexual activity, huh?

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

You see where I'm getting at here? You hear where I'm coming from? You have articles being written by reputable publications talking about an underground culture amongst the city's most powerful women working on Capitol Hill, whispering to one another about who to watch out for and how their behavior is inappropriate and all of this other stuff.

[Stephen A.]

They worried this what's going on on Capitol Hill? It's a conversation about sex, ladies and gentlemen. You know why? Because of something that I've said a long time ago as a person covering sports for over 30 years, where multimillionaires have access to levels of proclivities you would even imagine. And what I said back then and what I'll say to you now, ladies and gentlemen, when people look at an abundance of other individuals that are out

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

there and they say, why does this person get there? Why does that person not get there? You know what it is? You know why some people get caught up in mess and some people don't?

[Stephen A.]

Because when you were getting some before you got into office, or you were getting some before you were in the

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

public eye, or you were getting some before you were a celebrity or before you were a multimillionaire and all of that other stuff, you kind of know how to act because you didn't need a position of status and stature in order to get some. Now, when you one of those people that it ain't like that, and all of a sudden you gain some power and apparently you think it can be like that, you. You lose your damn mind.

[Stephen A.]

You lose your damn mind. You talk about Father Time is undefeated. Have you ever seen anybody defeat sex inquiry? Minds want to know. I got time. 8, 6696 voters. That's enough to call it 86696 voters.

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

You tell me who's won that battle. You think when, when, when Adam was created and you're talking about Adam and Eve that the forbidden fruit that they wasn't supposed to eat. You think they talking about an apple or an orange? Is that what you thought? They're talking about something else now. Use your head. Make it make sense. Come on. Now, this is what goes on.

[Stephen A.]

And we're in the nation's capital. 435 congressional representatives, 100 senators, 535 elected

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

officials with numerous administrative members working under

[Stephen A.]

each of them,

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

all looking up to and salivating for a speck of the power that the President of the United States has.

[Stephen A.]

And we wonder why our country is a damn mess right now.

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

Eric Swalwell's in a world of trouble,

[Stephen A.]

but he ain't the only one. The Representative Tony Gonzalez, I believe, out of Arizona, I believe he had to resign to.

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

Jennifer, do me a favor, please play back to back sound of the resignation letters being read on Capitol Hill on behalf of Eric Swalwell and Representative Tony Gonzalez. Could you play that, please?

[Eric Swalwell (voice reading resignation letter)]

The honorable the Speaker, House of Representatives. Sir, I am deeply sorry to my family, staff and constituents for mistakes and judgment I've made in my past. I will fight the serious false allegations made against me. However, I must take responsibility and ownership for the mistakes I did make. I am aware of efforts to bring an immediate expulsion vote against me and other members. Expelling anyone in Congress without due process within days of an allegation being made is wrong. But it's also wrong for my constituents to have me distracted from my duties. Therefore, I plan to resign my seat in Congress effective at 2:00pm Eastern Time on April 14, 2026. I will work with my staff in the coming days to ensure they are able, in my absence, to serve the needs of the good people of the 14th congressional district. Signed, Sincerely, Eric Swalwell, the Honorable the Speaker, House of Representatives, sir. Enclosed as my resignation letter to Texas Governor Greg Abbott, effective April 14, 2026 at 11:59pm Eastern Standard Time. It has been my privilege to serve the residents of Texas's 23rd congressional district. Signed, sincerely, Tony Gonzalez, member of Congress.

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

There you have it.

[Stephen A.]

They're gone, political careers over. But far be it for me. Just to play the resignation letters of both Representatives from both sides of the aisle, by the way, showing that there's no prejudice in terms of highlighting and articulating the behavior that both apparently have exercised. It's also important to hear audio from the alleged victim in this case. I believe her name was Lana. Let's hear from her and what she had to say. I believe it was about Representative Eric Swalwell, former Representative, that is.

[Alleged Victim Lana]

I believe he drugged my drink. I only had one glass of wine. He. We were supposed to go to a political event, and he said he needed to get paperwork from his hotel room. When I arrived at his hotel room, I was already incapacitated, and I couldn't move my arms or my body. He raped me and he choked me. And while he was choking me, I lost consciousness and I thought I died.

[Stephen A.]

Ladies and gentlemen, these are accusations. This is not proof of former Representative Eric Swalwell's guilt. We have a responsibility to say that. But when I use the phrase, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it ain't a damn mongoose. There's a reason for that,

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

and that's very, very difficult for me to say because I'm one who believes in innocence until proven guilty. And I'm one that has also seen women lie from time to time. Most often, more than not, women are. Women are right when they're talking about what has happened to them. I think when you talk about, for example, with domestic violence and stuff like that, they talk about how women, 85% of the time, they are right on the money. But there's that 10 to 15% where some of them have lied. Same as applicable here. The problem is that Eric Swalwell essentially has convicted himself with his own words and his own behavior. Let's look at this quote right here that he went on X Twitter. This is November 17, 2018. Support survivors believe survivors. We are with you. Hashtag handsoff, ladies and gentlemen. That's the A tweet. Listen to Eric Swalwell. I believe it was on Ms. Now, if not msnbc, when he was talking about now Supreme Court Justice Brett Kavanaugh when he was accused by ladies of sexual misconduct when he was being nominated for the president for the Supreme Court justice. And this is accusations dating back from his days in high school. Look at what Representative Eric Swalwell, the eight term representative, that is Eric Swalwell. Listen to what Eric Swalwell said about him.

[Stephen A.]

Then listen to this.

[Leon Panetta]

What was important to you about anything

[Interviewer or Moderator]

that you heard tonight from President Trump

[Stephen A.]

Speaking out at length from Mr. Abenatti,

[Interviewer or Moderator]

who I believe you just were able to. And new reports that there are new allegations being probed by the Senate regarding Judge Kavanaugh. Good evening, Ari. I saw continued demeaning of victims of sexual assault, people who deserve to be heard, who deserve for their allegations to be investigated, and a president who wants to just rush this through. He criticized the Senate for even taking this long, Ari. And so for Brett Kavanaugh's sake, if he is innocent, I hope tomorrow he opens his statement and says, you know what? Bring in all the victims, allow them to be heard, allow them to be questioned. That will clear his name. If he's indeed innocent, and if he's not, for the sake of the credibility of the court, I hope that the senators would vote against him.

[Stephen A.]

Talk about your own words coming back to bite you in the ass. It's bad. Now, keep in mind, Supreme Court justice, then a nominee. Brett Kavanaugh was not criminally charged. Multiple women made allegations of past sexual assault and misconduct during his 2018 confirmation, which he has consistently denied. Um, these remain unproven allegations in background. No prosecutor filed assault charges against him. Nevertheless, that was Eric Swalwell's words. And in Eric Swalwell's case, he's got five women who have come forward and have accused him of sexual misconduct. 5. Believe the women. That's what he said. What are we to think now? Support survivors. Believe survivors. We are with you. What is he going to say now? When Brett Kavanaugh said it was false? He wasn't trying to hear that. Now, what's he gonna do? And it made me think back and I said, you know what? I'm gonna look up some of these sex scandals. Far be it for me to dig up stuff, but it is appropriate because of the conversation. Think about Gary Hart, Democratic front runner for the president. A Colorado senator serious on policy, leading early in the polls. Then rumors surfaced of interfere. Challenged reporters to follow him around.

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

Follow me. Go ahead.

[Stephen A.]

And they did. And then found out he was with this mistress and had to back out of the campaign. We know about Bill Clinton and his scandals. Okay? Monica Lewinsky. Need I say anymore? I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Monica Lewinsky. Remember that? Lord have mercy. What about Newt Gingrich?

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

Speak of the House.

[Stephen A.]

Resigned in 1998 following GOP midterm losses and House ethics violations. Later acknowledged an extramarital affair during the period when he was leading impeachment proceedings against President Bill Clinton. By the way, this is in 1998.

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

He didn't admit it until 2007. I mean, you can't make this stuff up.

[Stephen A.]

Remember Governor Jim McGreevey in New Jersey

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

resigned in 2004 with the unforgettable line, I am a gay American. After his Israeli Homeland Security advisor threatened

[Stephen A.]

a sexual harassment lawsuit and McGreevey acknowledged what he called an extramarital relationship with him. Remember that? What about Elliot Spitzer, former Democratic Governor of New York? The crusading, anti corruption governor had personally prosecuted prostitution rings but was discovered to be a client of a high end escort service.

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

You can't make this shit up. You just can't make it up. It's unbelievable. How about John Edwards, who was having

[Stephen A.]

an affair while his wife Elizabeth was fighting terminal cancer? How about that? We'll never forget that.

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

How about Larry Craig, Republican out of

[Stephen A.]

Idaho, if I remember correctly. Arrested in a Minneapolis airport men's room in 2007 and charged with lewd conduct after soliciting an undercover officer. Pled guilty, then reversed course and insisted he was not gay. You can't make this up.

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

You just can't.

[Stephen A.]

Mark Sanford, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Anthony Weiner, don't forget about him in New York, you understand?

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

Dennis Hastert, Republican out of Illinois, speaker

[Stephen A.]

of the House, pled guilty in 2015 to illegally structuring bank withdrawals.

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

Stuff like that.

[Stephen A.]

I mean, multiple women. Al Franken, Democrat, Minnesota. John Conyers, Democrat, Michigan.

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

Blake Farenhold, Republican, Texas.

[Stephen A.]

Eric Green or whatever, Republican, Missouri. Admitted to an extramarital affair with his hairdresser. And of course, Donald Trump.

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

More than 25 women accused Trump of

[Stephen A.]

sexual misconduct over the years. Writer E. Jean Carroll sued him for a 1996 assault and a jury found him liable for sexual abuse and awarded a $5 million. A second jury added 83.3 million in defamation damages.

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

You can't make it up 1987 to now. And that's the stuff we decided to report. Don't let me go back further than

[Stephen A.]

that with jfk, Ted Kennedy and Chip Aquatic and all of this other stuff. Lord have mercy. It doesn't end. Good Lord. Sex y'.

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

All.

[Stephen A.]

That's what's really undefeated. I'll move on from this conversation at least for a few minutes cause Jen Psaki's up next. More serious issues to discuss. But this is serious too. Damn. Damn just never ends. Stick around. It's straight shooter with your boy Stephen A. Back with more in a minute.

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

Game time is creeping up and you're still sitting there trying to figure out

[Stephen A.]

how you're gonna watch the the last thing you need is to sign up for yet another streaming service you don't even want just to watch one game.

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

That's where Sling steps in. With Sling, you call the shots. Want to watch that one big NBA matchup on ESPN?

[Stephen A.]

Get a one day pass starting at just 499.

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

Want to catch an entire series of the NHL playoffs on tnt? Check out a seven day pass. And if you just can't get enough, Slings monthly packages give you even more

[Stephen A.]

options where at that point in the season where every game, every moment matters, Sling can make sure you're locked in for all of it without paying for a bunch of channels you don't care about. Watch the games you want, when you want with no long term commitments.

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

Sling lets you do that. Visit sling.com to learn more that sling.com

[Commercial Announcer]

what would you do if your online store converted 36% more shoppers? You could take 36% more vacation.

[Moses (Caller, former Marine)]

Another Pina colada?

[Jen Psaki]

Yes, please.

[Commercial Announcer]

Open a new retail location with 36% more square feet.

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

Fantastic.

[Commercial Announcer]

Hire 36% more help.

[Leon Panetta]

You're hired and you're hired.

[Commercial Announcer]

Shopify has the world's best converting checkout up to 36% better than other e commerce platforms. What you do with those extra sales is up to you. Switch to Shopify [e-mail] setup and get a $1 trial shopify.com set.

[Jen Psaki]

The former President just released a statement

[Eric Swalwell (voice reading resignation letter)]

saying that the Biden administration must act

[Jen Psaki]

immediately to end the border nightmare that

[Eric Swalwell (voice reading resignation letter)]

they have unleashed onto our nation.

[Jen Psaki]

Former President Trump yes, we don't take our advice or counsel from former President

[Stephen A.]

Trump, a lot of people got the

[Jen Psaki]

vaccine because they were hearing him say, if you get the vaccine, you don't

[Moses (Caller, former Marine)]

have to wear masks anymore.

[Jen Psaki]

And that continues to be CDC guidance. And you can say that that's going

[Leon Panetta]

to be the guidance forever.

[Jen Psaki]

I am not the CDC director.

[Moses (Caller, former Marine)]

I understand, but people don't care who

[Jen Psaki]

tells them to wear a mask. They should care. Shouldn't they care if it's a doctor or medical expert or a spokesperson? I think most Americans actually do care.

[Various Callers]

Why does the president support abortion when

[Stephen A.]

his own Catholic faith teaches abortion as morally wrong?

[Jen Psaki]

Well, he believes that it's a woman's right, it's a woman's body and it's her choice.

[Leon Panetta]

Who does he believe then should look

[Interviewer or Moderator]

out for the unborn child?

[Jen Psaki]

He believes that it's up to a woman to make those decisions and up to a woman to make those decisions with her doctor. I know you've never faced those choices, nor have you ever been pregnant.

[Stephen A.]

You heard that right there, that last comment.

[Leslie (Caller)]

Woo.

[Stephen A.]

Welcome Straight Shooter with George Truly. Stephen A. My next guest served as White House Press Secretary during the first two years of the Biden administration and his White House Community Communications Director in the Obama White House. She now hosts the briefing on Ms. Now, which airs nightly from Tuesday to Friday at 9pm Eastern Standard Time. Please welcome for the first time to Straight Shooter, the one and only Jen Psaki. How are you, Jen?

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

How's everything going?

[Jen Psaki]

I mean, Stephen A. That was really bringing me back there. It made me kind of want to be behind that podium again for a moment. But yeah, it's great to be here. Thanks for having me.

[Stephen A.]

My pleasure. Watching it, thinking about being there.

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

What would the job be like for you now if you were at this

[Stephen A.]

White House as the press secretary?

[Jen Psaki]

Well, it's an entirely different universe right now. I listen to your show. I hear you call things out. I'm very caffeinated today that I can try to keep up with you here. Look, I think that when you have a president and you have an administration who is essentially gaslighting the American people on many days, most days, that does make that job challenging because the audience here is just Donald Trump. Caroline Levitt's audience is making sure that her boss feels good about what she said. And when I was in that job for Joe Biden, I felt like my job was speaking on behalf of the government and, yes, the president and providing information to the American public. And this time it's like looking for a high five from the president. It's a very different job. And I think they've also remade the press briefing room in many ways to make it more like a room for propagandists. And that was not the case when I was there.

[Stephen A.]

One of the things that I've marveled at on so many occasions, it's like

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

the reporters look at the press secretary, they look at you all, and it's like they expect you to have all the answers, like you can't sit up. It doesn't satisfy them that you're saying, the president feels this way, just like he was talking about President Joe Biden. Well, this is how he feels. It's almost like you came a tad bit shy of saying to them, damn it, ask him. I just told you what the answer was. I mean, that's what you almost want to say. So I guess, I don't know.

[Stephen A.]

I imagine you've been asked this question,

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

but I would ask, what is supposed

[Stephen A.]

to be the job of the press secretary?

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

What is the American people supposed to

[Stephen A.]

expect from somebody standing in that position?

[Jen Psaki]

It's such an important question, especially right now. I mean, the way I thought about it was you're working for the President and you're working for the White House. You're working in. And people care what you have to say because you're speaking on behalf of the person sitting in the Oval Office, not because they cared of what AI Jen Psaki was going to wax poetic about on any given day. Right. That's not news. What's news is what the President thinks. But the President is working for the American people. The American people elected the President. So in that way, I saw the job as you're speaking on behalf of the President, but your job is really to provide information about what's happening in the White House, what's happening in the government, what the American people should really know about. And that was when I was there, there were a lot of things happening. When I first came into the job, it was the height of COVID of course. So we saw the role of that room as how can we provide more information and new information to the public. I used to bring a lot of experts into the room. People who were, you know, Anthony, Dr. Fauci came into that room and briefed the press on a regular basis. Jake Steven Sullivan, who is the national Security advisor to Briefdom on a regular basis, because it needs to be a room that's not for just the back and forth that's gonna be shown on cable news, but one where people can learn something. Not every day does that happen, but that's really the goal.

[Stephen A.]

Jen Psaki right here with Stephen A straight shooter with Stephen A. I got,

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

you know, the president, he's obviously debunked

[Stephen A.]

or broken, you know, several Democratic norms, some would say. I'm wondering from your vantage point, what is one Democratic norm Donald Trump has not crossed yet, but you worry he could cross before the end of his term. This term

[Jen Psaki]

I have a real concern about and he hasn't crossed this yet, I guess, but I have a real concern about what resources he may try to use that are at his disposal in the government to mess with the elections, including the midterm elections. I mean, we can talk about 2028 and all of that as well, but we've already seen it. We've already seen dry runs of what he wants to try to do. Some of it is intimidation, voter suppression, you know, sending ICE officials out to communities and to areas around polling sites. That's a form, obviously a form of voter suppression. There are also efforts to make it harder to vote that I think, you know, even ending and I don't know, is this crossing a Democrat, is this ending a Democratic norm? He's trying to change the law, I suppose, on being able to do mail in ballots. That's something that has allowed more people to vote and participate in the process. So that's one of the areas currently that I'm quite concerned about is what he may want to do, what he may try leading up to the midterm elections, which are really not that far away.

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

Jen, what level of culpability do you

[Stephen A.]

believe the left, the Democratic side of the aisle should feel towards Donald Trump having returned to office? That's what I mean. Listen, I voted for one Republican.

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

Contrary to these reports and the stuff that people put out there, I voted

[Stephen A.]

for one Republican in my life. That was Chris Christie, because I couldn't stand Corzon in New York, in New Jersey.

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

That's it.

[Stephen A.]

That's the only person that is the

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

only Republican I've ever voted for. But I say all of that in

[Stephen A.]

all honesty because I don't view Trump as somebody who's won the 2024 election. I view it as the Democrats having lost it. They blew it. They basically gift wrapped it to him with some of the decisions that they were made.

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

I want to know, do you feel

[Stephen A.]

that that's, that's the appropriate position to take? Is it an accurate depiction of what the Democratic Party did in terms of facilitating Trump's return to office? What are your thoughts about that?

[Jen Psaki]

I think there is a lot of self Reflection that was warranted, some of which has happened. And yeah, I don't disagree with. I don't know that I would say, I don't know how you just, I don't remember how you just framed it. I don't know that I would say that it's their fault, obviously. But I the problem looking back at the 2024 election, and I remember, you know, I called the election for MSU, then MSNBC, now MSNBC, I was on the air for that. Is that, is that there was this effort in the final months or I think this is part of the issue to prop up. And I think Liz Cheney has done some amazing things and is incredibly heroic in a million ways. But there was this. We're going to use democracy as the primary thing we're going to communicate about now. Preserving our democracy is a very important thing. But what we learned coming out of the election was that people had in the country writ large, not Democrats, not Republicans, a different understanding of what democracy meant and what defending democracy was. And it was quite split on that point, that question and what I think one of the biggest mistakes, and this is where I think a lot of people were at fault who are part of the big Democratic system out there, people running for office, people who are consultants, all of that people who are doing messaging, was not listening to a big swath of the base of the party that was saying, I don't feel heard, I'm suffering right now. I can't pay my bills. I don't think you're listening to me. You don't have answers for me. Your, your proposals are too small ball. They're not big. You know, there were things that, that Kamala Harris, that Vice President Harris talked about that were good. I mean, you know, I'm in the sandwich generation. You have parents who are aging, you have kids, you're raising. That's a real thing a lot of people are experiencing. But then you start to call it the opportunity agenda. And people are like, what the hell are you even talking about? Right. And a lot of people just didn't feel heard or didn't feel like they could identify with what they were seeing and hearing from the Democratic Party. It was a little bit like a lot of people lost the thread of what they should be talking about, and people were a little bit fearful about going into communities where people disagreed with them. Now, I think that has changed a little bit, which I think is a very good sign. And if you look at how a number of people have won over the course of time and I mean, different kinds of people. I mean, when Senator Warnock won, he won in part by showing up in parts of Georgia. Nobody expected to see him. That had been won by 80 something percent of, by Republicans in the past. I will say, having worked for Barack Obama for 10 years, when he ran for the Senate, he showed up in deeply white, rural parts of Illinois. People were like, what's he doing here? And then you know what happens? He starts talking about how he had two little daughter. He had two daughters and he could relate and people can connect in that way. So I think there were a lot of mistakes made, a lot of things that I think self reflection should be done about a little bit of. Sometimes I think Democrats talk a little bit like they're in an ivory tower academic Harvard class. Look, I didn't go to Harvard. I don't begrudge anyone who did.

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

But coming across like elitist, when you're using the other side of being that

[Jen Psaki]

way, it comes across as elitist. And like you're not invited to be a part of my conversation. And so those things are all true. And I think if you lose everything, you have to spend some time and reflect on what went poorly. So I do think there's been self reflection. I'm really interested to see how it applies moving forward to 2028. I mean, 2026 and the midterm elections will be very interesting as well. And there's so much excitement, there's crazy amounts of money that has been raised. We just saw new numbers today. There's so much excitement out there. But, but I think until we see like the field of people running for president and how they're approaching that, we're not going to see entirely if all the lessons have been learned.

[Stephen A.]

Well, the thing about it, and listening to you, you know, I'll put it a different way. And I've raged about this for months now. I said when I, when I. What really resonates with me, whether it's 2016 or 2024, is that I saw an electorate on the right that had Desantis thrown in their face, Nikki Haley, Vivek Ramaswamy and various others. And they said, the hell with all of y', all, we want him, meaning Donald Trump.

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

Whereas with the exception of Barack Obama, the Democrat, the Democratic Party has been about, no, this is our person.

[Stephen A.]

You, you all jump on board.

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

So it comes across as one side that's listening to the people and another side who's compelling the people to listen to them.

[Stephen A.]

And that's the side that lost this last election. That's my, that's how I view it. To that you say what?

[Jen Psaki]

Yeah, one thing I would say, though, in 2020, there was a big primary right in the Democratic side. There were a lot of people who ran for president. Some people emerged we had never heard of before. Pete Buttigieg, right. Never heard of that guy before. All of a sudden he was winning Iowa. And Joe Biden emerged from that. Now, I will say that that tells you what people. Now, why did he emerge from that? I think he emerged from that in part because his message and we can, we can talk about 2024 and the Biden aspect of it, of course, if you want. But his message was more aligned with where the base of the Democratic Party has been and was on the economy and raising the minimum wage and fighting for affordability issues. That was what he talked about and what he was focused on. And he beat out a lot of our people. But, yeah, there are too many times. This doesn't just happen in presidential politics. This has happened also on Capitol Hill forever, where it's like if you've waited your turn and you're 89, you can be chair of the committee. And finally they've thrown that out a little bit. And I think that's a good thing. I mean, look, there are Robert Garcia is now the ranking member on the house oversight committee. That is 20, turns out hugely important committee, even if you're not the chair of the committee. He's young, he's active, he's aggressive. That can't be somebody who's 85 in that job or 90 or whatever, you know, And I think they're starting to throw it out a little bit. But, yeah, that needs to be thrown out. It's not. And also, youth is what people are looking for right now. We know that from basically every poll, every time you talk to voters out there.

[Stephen A.]

Considering the news over the last couple of days, particularly involving Representative Eric Swalwell and what has happened in California, you know, I mean, he was going to get booted out anyway, but at least he resigned. At least he stepped away. He needed to. And he's got himself in a world of trouble, There is no doubt about that. I wanted to know, number one, how do you feel about that situation? And number two, what kind of effect, if any at all, do you anticipate that will have on the muscle and the manner in which the Democratic Party is able to flex its muscle as the midterms approach? Because obviously he was one of those loud voices out there very much against

[Jen Psaki]

Trump well, first I felt sickened by it and it felt, and I was talking to my colleague Ali Vitale about this, who covers Capitol Hill. You kind of feel like, wow, you know, I feel fortunate to have a platform. Should I be doing more to figure out who these other creepers are out there on Capitol Hill? And you know, there are some more.

[Leon Panetta]

Right.

[Jen Psaki]

I don't know who they all are. So. And you feel for, you know, I got involved and worked in public service because I very much believe that government can make people's lives better. And I want more people to want to be a part of public service. And it feels saddened, sad and sickening that this is what people who are in college or in the early 20s are seeing about the kind of behavior that happens on the Hill. I do think, and you said this, it's a good sign that he resigned so quickly. I think to the credit of the Democratic Party and I don't know who knew what when. I think there are some important questions about that that needs to be continue to be asked and pressed on. But you know, they pushed him out. They were not going to tolerate that he was going to be there. You know, you have a Republican member of Congress who retired. I retired, sorry, resigned yesterday as well. Gonzalez. Exactly. Who was having completely inappropriate relationship with one of his staffers who ended up tragically killing herself. That took weeks. And that wouldn't have been pushed out. I mean, the system, unless there's political pressure, is not set up to actually kick people out who do inappropriate things in Congress because the Ethics investigation, the Ethics committee investigations just take too long. And that's what he was betting on. And other people are gonna bet on that too, unless there continues to be public attention on it and questions. And that also requires people speaking out. And that's a really difficult thing to do.

[Stephen A.]

Jen Psaki from msnow right here with Stephen A Straight shooter with Stephen A. You know, getting back to this White House, this administration and what they're going through, they're going through a different problem and that is the right turning against Donald Trump. The Meg Kelly's of the world, you know, I mean, the Tucker Carlson's of the world, the Candace Owens of the world, Alex Jones, not that I want to quote him or anything, but dammit, you know that it's significant because that base definitely supports Trump. What does it mean from your vantage point to see that stuff becoming a bit more fragmented by the day in terms of the support, the cult like following that Donald Trump once had? Do you believe it's all A smokescreen, and it'll subside and they'll get back to normal, because it'll be all about being against the Democrats. Or do you believe this is real and this is something that could potentially harm the GOP in the midterms and Trump overall?

[Jen Psaki]

Well, what's interesting and a big part of, you know, Theo Vaughn, there's a couple people, Joe Rogan and. Who's not exactly like a Republican, but like, you know, people who have been sympathetic and supportive of Trump in certain ways in the past. It's interesting because a lot of what has broken a number of them over the last several weeks is, of course, the war that Trump started. And that is a place where the public, I think the recent polls show, like, 55% are very much against it. If you ask questions about more specific aspects, it's even higher than that. Now, what's also true, though, is that still a large percentage of MAGA voters are still with Trump on the war. Now, are they with Trump because they think the war is a great idea, or they're just with Trump because they just are gonna be with Trump no matter what? Right. I mean, it's hard to kind of untangle that question. But I do think that what it's a sign of, you know, last week, Megyn Kelly had this moment. You may have played it. Actually, I don't remember. You tell me where she was saying, can you just be normal?

[Stephen A.]

You know, Yeah, I played it last week. I played it last week.

[Jen Psaki]

It's like, why do you have to. I played it, too. I think it's like, why do you have to behave this way? And I think that is what a lot of people are feeling. And when you compound a couple of the things we've seen. I know you talk about a lot of these things. It's like the war in Iran, where there's no clear end, there's no justification. We've already lost soldiers. Also, the gas prices are the highest. They've been. And, like, what is even happening here with negotiations? People are justifiably pissed off about that. Then you have Trump picking a fight with the Pope. Right. And also you have a number of people, which is disgraceful and disgusting, depicting himself as Jesus. You know, you. And you have Mike Johnson and J.D. vance essentially echoing him. I mean, sometimes these comments. I grew up Catholic. I have not. And I have a family in Cincinnati that goes to church all the time. I will say. But, you know, these are not the type of comments that are going to sit well with people who have been A base of supporters which includes people who are of Catholic faith, the military, people who are members of the military, who are, who are still going to have questions about why we're fighting this war. So I don't know, I mean, it's interesting to see these big MAGA talking head types out there and kind of breaking with Trump. We haven't seen yet in the MAGA base itself that massive break, but we have seen in the public breaks for variety of different reasons, including the war and picking a fight with the Pope and using religion as justification for going to war.

[Stephen A.]

Couple of questions left before I let you get on out here. And thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate it. Number one, just decipher the difference for the average listener and viewer out there between the MAGA right and how it comports itself and the extreme progressive left and how it chooses to comport itself, particularly when they're dealing with issues particularly pertaining to Trump.

[Jen Psaki]

You have to tell me a little bit more about your. What you're getting at here. I mean, what I see in the.

[Leslie (Caller)]

Madame.

[Jen Psaki]

Yeah, go ahead, go ahead.

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

What I'm saying, all I'm saying is to this, I think that these folks that follow him, it's like a cult,

[Stephen A.]

like following, there's no doubt about it.

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

But I also think the other side

[Stephen A.]

is so extremely against everything he is, everything he represents, everything he stands for,

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

everything he does, that sometimes their lack

[Stephen A.]

of objectivity is so flagrant. You're not really. Not you. I'm not talking about you. Of course not.

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

But they're not really reaching anybody because

[Stephen A.]

people see it as two sides of the same coin. If you're in the middle, if you're an independent like me, okay, you're thinking along the lines.

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

You're no different than the other side. You just have a different belief system, but you're just as fervently against the other side and sometimes a bit vitriolic, a bit more vitriolic than you need

[Stephen A.]

to be at times. That's how I find myself feeling. That's what I'm getting at.

[Jen Psaki]

Yeah, yeah. Look, I think there are times I think a lot of people on, and I can't speak for everybody in the left. I don't agree with everything everybody says on the left either. You know, sometimes it's like, not constructive. I mean, I, you know, you've talked about the 25th Amendment. I have no issue with people saying therefore invoking the 25th Amendment, but it's not going to happen. So it's like, why are we Spending so much time, you know, so that's not what you're talking about here. What I would say is that I think for a lot of people in the Democratic Party or who, people who don't even consider themselves members of the Democratic Party, whatever that means, people out in the country who might consider themselves progressive, it's like it feels like their entire identity is being questioned and challenged by Trump and many things in the Trump administration, maybe because they're an immigrant or from an immigrant family, right. Maybe they're trans or maybe they know somebody who's trans, maybe any of these things. So it feels very visceral and raw and real. And I understand that. So I just wanted to acknowledge that what is also true is that in order to win, you have to invite more people to the party. So if you want to win, you have to accept sometimes that there may be people who are part of your party or you're going to welcome into the event or the conversation who you don't agree with on 100% of issues. And I think sometimes there can be a little litmus testy feeling about like, who's allowed to be a Democrat or who can consider themselves progressive. And part of that goes hand in hand with like, you have to scream at the top of your lungs about everything that comes out of the Trump administration. And I'm outraged by a lot of it, but I don't think screaming at about every single thing is the most constructive thing. I think the difference, and I wanna separate like the people from like the representatives is that, you know, there is a, I think from the lemmings who follow Trump who are in the Republican Party in Congress, you know, there is a willingness to follow him and abide by what he says and calls for and does that isn't even aligned with their own values and views. And they are giving over their power as a separate branch of government. And I'm talking about Congress and also the Supreme Court at times because of like loyalty or fealty or whatever it means, fear of him impacting their political well being, that is incredibly dangerous too. So. But I don't think that there is that representatives on the left are all faultless at all either. You know, I think you have to, you have to find and be willing to invite people in and crack the door open. Otherwise you're just going to be your small party where you're just agreeing on everything together. It's not how you went.

[Stephen A.]

Very last question for you. You're an expert in communications who by the way, is doing a fabulous job on Ms. Now. You do a great job. I'm so happy to have you.

[Jen Psaki]

Thank you for that. I hope. You gotta come on and talk to me sometime.

[Stephen A.]

Any, anytime you invite me, I'll be there. I'm happy to come on. It's not a problem. I'll be there. I have to ask you this before I let you go.

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

If you have to.

[Stephen A.]

You're gonna be communicating with a lot of Democrats in the next few months and over the next couple of years, what are you going to tell them about what it takes to win, meaning regaining at least one house of Congress for the midterms? And Potentially, whether it's J.D. vance, it's Marco Rubio, or somebody else reclaiming the White House.

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

What are you going to tell the

[Stephen A.]

Democratic Party they absolutely, positively need to

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

do and what they absolutely, positively need to avoid doing in order to make that happen?

[Jen Psaki]

Oh, man. First of all, this is the last question. Some other time, we'll have to go through everyone who may run. And I have my own thoughts and advice for probably each of these people. But I will say this. I think a couple of the lessons learned, and this is pretty broad, I would should say. You got to show up where people don't expect you. Don't just be going to friendly audiences. I don't mean. So that means. Yeah, go on podcast or people disagree. I used to do Fox News all the time because one, I found it fun. Two, they have a huge audience. Still do. You got to acknowledge that, like, we're living in the land of reality here, right? There are people who do that and are willing to do that. And I think that's a good thing. The other thing I would say is don't worry so much about what the polls tell you about messaging. Right? Because the thing is, polls are imperfect. They're capturing a moment in time. And also it's very hard to reach. And they're making a bet on who the electorate is. So it's hard to reach people even through the polling system. And sometimes politicians or people running for office feel like they have to stay within a very certain way of talking about things. And the point is, you come across as inauthentic. So instead of doing that, sit down right now, everybody who's running for office, everybody who may run or run for president, go through every tough issue and decide what you think about that issue before you worry about what the poll polling says. Start there, figure out how to talk about it that is authentic, that is real, that is leadership. The last thing I would Say there's probably a million things, but just the last thing on my mind about this is you gotta hire people who are gonna tell you what they think and you don't always have to agree with them. You're the candidate or you're running for president. You got to decide. But you don't hire a bunch of yes men and yes women because you need people who are going to be straight with you, direct with you. And I think sometimes, you know, it's harder to find, but that's an important part of it.

[Stephen A.]

The author of say More. The host of the Briefing with Pen, Jen Psaki. The one and only Jen Psaki right here with Stephen A. Straight Shooter with Stephen A. It is such an honor and a privilege to have you. You're wonderful. I watch you every chance I get. I really appreciate your work, really appreciate you and know that you're welcome back anytime. And I will be happy to come on your show once the invite is extended.

[Jen Psaki]

Thank you so much, Stephen A. I'd love that. Thanks for having me.

[Stephen A.]

All the best to you. Take care. Jen Psaki right here with Ray Shooter with Stephen A. More of that to come in a minute, your calls and then some. She does a great job, no question about it. Reasonable, yet highly intelligent and accomplished. Can't ask for better than that. You really, really can't. Okay, listen to her words because they make a lot of damn sense.

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

More with Straight Shooter.

[Stephen A.]

With yours truly in a minute, it's Stephen A. In the house, straight shooter style.

[Goto Bank Announcer]

With Verbal's last minute deals, you can

[Commercial Announcer]

save over $50 on your spring getaway.

[Stephen A.]

So whether it's a mountain escape with friends, a family week at the beach

[Commercial Announcer]

or sightseeing in a new city, there's still time to get great discounts.

[Stephen A.]

Book your next day now.

[Commercial Announcer]

Average savings $72.

[Goto Bank Announcer]

Select homes only. Breathe in. Feel the sense of calm that comes from having up to $300 in overdraft protection with Goto bank now. Did you say $300? Yes. Now back to our breathing.

[Stephen A.]

So if I overspend my balance, Goto bank has my back up to $300.

[Goto Bank Announcer]

Yes. Can we breathe out now? Less worries, more zen. With over $300 in overdraft protection, tap to open an account today. Eligible direct deposits and opt in required for overdraft protection fees. Terms and conditions apply.

[Stephen A.]

Thanks again for the wonderful Jen Psaki for coming on the show. Does a great job on Ms. Now. Welcome back on the show anytime. Really appreciate her. By the way, did y' all see the latest exclusive Secretary Labor Secretary Lori Chavez Darima under investigation for inappropriate relationship with employee. Lord, it's bad enough that you got all of this sexual activity going on in the nation's capital in a bad way. Way allegedly.

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

Apparently it ain't even confined to the men. The women getting loose too.

[Stephen A.]

Lord have mercy. Our number two. Up next,

[Jen Psaki]

Premier hosts on VRBO deliver

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

quality vacation rental stays with fast responses and clear instructions.

[Commercial Announcer]

Oh, I had a question.

[Jen Psaki]

Our host replied, super quick premier move.

[Commercial Announcer]

Wish I had a premier group chat. They won't even write me back.

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

Book a top rated stay with a

[Stephen A.]

premier host if you know you've Erbo.

[Goto Bank Announcer]

Breathe in. Feel the sense of calm that comes from having up to $300 in overdraft protection with GoToBank. Now. Did you say $300? Yes. Now back to our breathing.

[Stephen A.]

So if I overspend my balance, go2bank has my back up to $300.

[Goto Bank Announcer]

Yes. Can we breathe out now? Less worries, more zen. With over $300 in overdraft protection tap to open an account today. Eligible direct deposits and opt in required for overdraft protection fees. Terms and conditions apply.

[Stephen A.]

Straight Shooter with Stephen A.

[Leon Panetta]

I'm proud to have served in the army, the Congress, the White House, Chief of Staff, CIA Director and Secretary of Defense. I've looked into the eyes of our warriors and deployed them into battle. I gave the order directing our special operations forces to fly two helicopters 150 miles into Abbottabad at night. And by the time the sun rose, Osama Bin Laden was dead.

[Stephen A.]

Ladies and gentlemen, Ladies and gentlemen, that sound you just heard was from the Democratic National Convention 2024. That voice you just heard was a man that really, really needs no introduction for anybody that knows anything about politics. Former CIA director, former White House Chief of Staff, former director of the Office Management and Budget under President Clinton. Represented Congress from 1977 to 1993. He's now co founded the Panetta Institute for Public Policy with his wife Sylvia and has served as chairman since returning in 2013. Former Secretary of Defense, former head of the CIA. The man has done it all. His name is Leon Panetta and I'm honored and privileged to have you on the show today, sir. Thank you so much.

[Leon Panetta]

How are you, Stephen? It's good to be on your show. I have a lot of respect for the work that you do and you know, what you do to try to bring the truth to the American people. That's a real challenge these days. So thank you for what you're doing and it's great to be with you.

[Stephen A.]

I'M honored to have you on the show, friend. Thank you for your service throughout the years. You've done a great job, and I'm a real fan of yours. So thank you for taking time out of your schedule to be on this show. First things first, as we sit here today, and the United States obviously is engaged in warfare with Iran, what is going through your mind at this moment in time on this particular day, especially compared to weeks ago?

[Leon Panetta]

You know, I always, in all of the jobs I've had and working with the two presidents that I work with most closely, Bill Clinton and Barack Obama, everything was about kind of trying to develop a strategy to try to make sure that you knew what you wanted to accomplish, you knew what the objective was, you knew what the strategy had to be. You knew what you had to bring together in order to accomplish what needed to be accomplished to make the lives of American people better. That's what public service is supposed to be all about, making the lives of the American people better. And I just get this sense that today we're floundering, we're bouncing around. We don't have a clear view of what our objectives ought to be, what we ought to try to achieve. We're just. We're just doing this by the seat of our pants. And as somebody who's been in, you know, in public service for over 50 years, I just think that the people we elect to office have to be a hell of a lot more disciplined about trying to get things done, about governing, about doing what's right for our democracy. So my concern right now is that I don't know that anybody's in charge.

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

Mr. Minetta, are you of the mindset?

[Stephen A.]

Because, I mean, if you listen to the folks on the right, of course Donald Trump is in charge. He's the great commander and leader. We just must applaud every single thing this man has done. He's just the greatest leader we've ever had. Listening to folks on the right, the fawning is just disgusting to me, which is something that I've lamented for over the last year, is just the same disgusting to watch as opposed to really, really being in a position to challenge him, hold him accountable, or to support him when necessary. I guess I'm asking you this. When you look at it right now and the fact that we're there, is

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

that about Donald Trump? Is that about Bibi Netanyahu and the

[Stephen A.]

relationship that he's had with Donald Trump and that influencing America's position in all of this? Led by Donald Trump? When you think about our presence in Iran, near Iran. Who do you point the finger at when it comes to that, sir?

[Leon Panetta]

You know, I think about how the hell do we get here?

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

Yeah.

[Leon Panetta]

And my, my sense is that it was because the, the leaders of both countries, for whatever reason, had a very simplistic view of what would happen, that Netanyahu basically told the President, we've, We've, you know, we've. We've gotten intelligence that we could go after the leadership in Iran and basically, you know, be able to blow them up, and that, that will ultimately cause the, the people in Iran to rise up and bring down the regime. And we expect that would happen within a few days. And, and Donald Trump, who doesn't take the time that he should to read intelligence, to look at what the information is on the regime and what the intelligence was saying, that the regime is strong, they're in a strong position, they're going to, They're. It's not easy to bring down the regime. That was pretty clear. But rather than paying attention to that intelligence, President Trump decided to go along with Bibi, and they attacked Iran without telling the Congress, without telling the American people, without telling our allies. And in the end, it was a terrible miscalculation by both of them because in the end, the regime did not come down. As a matter of fact, we have a regime that's stronger than what it was. And all of the hope that ultimately this would be a very short war and would end very quickly, all of that has gone out of the window. We are now, as far as I'm concerned, we are in another endless war in the Middle East.

[Stephen A.]

Why do you say endless as if it's something that we can't get out of? Why is that the scenario that you're painting?

[Leon Panetta]

Well, I'll tell you, Stephen. You know, when you look at the 80 years of history since Israel was established, we have had wars in that part of the world every few years. And rather, I mean, there were presidents like Clinton and, and I think President Obama and others that really wanted to figure out, how could we, how could we achieve a more permanent peace in the Middle East? But unfortunately, there were too many forces that were against, really trying to focus on the root causes of war in the Middle East. And so what has happened is that Israel has fought wars every few years against adversaries that were there. They may have defeated them at the time, but those adversaries always returned in one way or another. And we continued to have wars in the Middle East. And right now, I have to tell you, when you look at the situation in Iran, regardless of what we are able to do in terms of any kind of agreement to bring this war to an end, the regime in Iran is not going anywhere. And the regime in Iran is going to be more intent than ever in trying to achieve a nuclear weapon. They're going to be more intent than ever in trying to restore their missiles and their drones. And what I fear is that even if this war ends within the next few days, that within a matter of years, we'll be back at war again. That's what I mean by the endless war.

[Stephen A.]

Got it. We're talking to the former White House chief of staff, former secretary of defense, former director for the CIA, the 1 and only Leon Panetta, right here with Straight Shooter with Stephen A. What do you say as a person that served under the Clinton administration, under Bill, under President Bill Clinton, under President Barack Obama as well? What do you say to cynics and critics out there who say, regardless of what side of the aisle you're on, for decades we've been talking about going at, going after Iran, doing whatever we could to ensure that they don't have a nuclear weapon, they don't have nuclear capability, and that we neutralize them at every turn, whether it's Clinton, whether it's Obama or anybody else in between. Those subjects have been broached as it pertains to Iran. But President Trump is the one that stepped up and actually finally did something about it. What do you say to cynics and critics about those, you know, towards those who oppose his actions in Iran? What do you say to them when they bring that up?

[Leon Panetta]

Well, you know, I think regardless of whether you're on the left or the right, whether you're a Democrat or Republican, whether you're an independent, I think we all have a duty to kind of ask, what was the result? What was the result of a war we're engaged in? Are we better off or are we worse off? And that's an important question. And you know, Bill Clinton looked at these issues and always had to decide, you know, am, am I taking the right steps here? Am I doing what's necessary for the country? I mean, that's. Look, for those that have not been in Washington or have never had that experience, let me just suggest to you, what I think is there's a right way to do things and there's a wrong way to do things. The right way to do things is to sit down when there's a crisis and have very smart people around you who are experienced. No president should be afraid to have bright people in the room that may know more than he does. That was true for Bill Clinton, it was true for Barack Obama, and it was true for, for, for George Bush and for his, his son. You want to make sure you have bright people, experienced people. You want to make sure you go through a process of analyzing what is the crisis we're facing, what are the consequences of taking action? What kind of action should we take? Should it be military, should it be diplomatic? What will give us the best results in taking that action? What they do is they think it through. I don't think this president operates that way. I don't think he takes the time to think it through. You know, he's captured by somebody who, you know, I work with Bibi Netanyahu a long time. He's, he's very persuasive. And we have, without question, we have a bond with Israel. But when he says something that things can happen very quickly. Wait a, wait a minute. Before I deploy our men and women into harm's way, let me make damn sure that we are going to accomplish what he's talking about. You know, we're putting our men and women in uniform in harm's way. The most awesome responsibility I had as Secretary of Defense was putting our young men and women in harm's way. I want to make damn sure we have a clear objective, I want to make sure we have a clear strategy, and I want to make sure we have an end game. I don't think this president went through that process.

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

All right, let me ask you this,

[Stephen A.]

because the Trump administration says the Iran war is under control. Those are their words. But the strait of amused threat suggests otherwise. Of course, to ask you this question, I think it's necessary. What does an honest end game look like in your estimation, and what isn't the public being told, in your opinion?

[Leon Panetta]

Look, to be truthful here, I think the end game ultimately has to be a change in regime in Iran. That's the end game you need, right? Because if all you're doing is basically replacing one hard line regime with another hard line regime, very frankly, you haven't accomplished a hell of a lot. You may have blown the hell out of them, you may have blown up a lot of targets, but in the end, you've got a hard line regime that's going to be committed to the same thing that every regime has been committed to. So you haven't gained a lot. So I think, I think the most important thing is to change the Regime. How do you do that? Well, frankly, I think if the President had exercised a little patience Here in the 12 Day War, Israel and the United States really did damage to Iran's nuclear capability. I think they set him back. Set them back bad. Okay, okay. And the fact was that people were on, were in the streets protesting. The economy in Iran was going to hell. The regime was in trouble. The Supreme Leader was in trouble. He was an old man. He was expected to die very soon. But that, that would, that was the ingredients that you need in order to allow people to rise up and change the regime.

[Stephen A.]

But they went too far because they killed taking the patience.

[Leon Panetta]

I mean, look, the President himself says help. Help was on the way. Baloney. Help wasn't on the way. Not the kind of help that should have been done. We should have been providing providing help to the leadership for the protesters. We should have given them support. We should have done the things that would have allowed them to be able to rise up and bring the regime down. None of that happened. And now it doesn't look very likely that it's going to happen at all. So my concern is, rather than taking your time, rather than evaluating all the consequences, rather than looking at what can happen and what you've got to be prepared for. I mean, the fact that this president was not prepared for Iran closing the Straits of Hormuz is irresponsible. When I was in the National Security Council and we were talking about action that we might have to take with Iran, the first thing considered was the fact that they were going to close the Straits of Hormuz and we had a plan to open it up. Why the hell didn't this administration have that kind of plan? Why were they caught by surprise?

[Stephen A.]

Why are they operating unilaterally with the

[Leon Panetta]

Straits of Hormuz that are closed? I mean, it's just, you know, it's. It's incompetence.

[Stephen A.]

No question. Leon Panetta, former CIA Director, White House Chief of Staff, Secretary of Defense, right here with Straight Shooter with Stephen. A couple of questions before I let you get on out of here, sir, and thank you so much for your time. What's one decision Trump has made in this Iran conflict that you think was actually the right call, if anything at all, and one that you think history would. I know I can imagine what you think history would judge harshly, but is there anything you think he's done right here? Anything?

[Leon Panetta]

I. Look, I. I think the fact that he joined with Israel to go after their nuclear capability and knock it back was the right decision and in fact it did set him back. We went after their enrichment capability and, and I saw the intelligence before that attack took place. The fact was that Iran constantly, particularly after the Obama deal was set aside, they went ahead and began enriching nuclear fuel and they were working on putting a nuclear bomb together. They were within, I think, a few weeks of being able to do that. So it was a dangerous moment and I think that was a good time to go after their nuclear capability. But to now have another regime in place and I don't know what will be decided with regards to nuclear enrichment or whether we'll get anything agreed to on that issue, but I think there's a real danger that these hardliners are going to come back and try to develop a nuclear weapon again. I think that's the concern I have.

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

Well, I want you to know that

[Stephen A.]

you just issued, you just displayed some or verbalized rather breaking news. You actually said that they were a few weeks away from developing a nuclear weapon, which is something the Trump administration was saying and there were an abundance of Democrats who were refuting that. You're saying they were that close to developing a nuclear weapon.

[Leon Panetta]

That's what the intelligence showed and I believe it. I think, I think they were within a few weeks of being able to put a nuclear weapon together.

[Stephen A.]

Got you understood. Last question for you. We what's the single scenario in this Iran conflict that keeps you up at night, the one that could spiral faster than Washington is prepared for?

[Leon Panetta]

Stephen, I, I, I get asked that question and you probably will also be surprised by this answer. The one thing I worry about the most right now is not our foreign adversaries, which, you know, it's important to worry about. The worst thing right now is the dysfunction in Washington, the fact that the President and the leadership of both parties are unwilling to come together to govern this country. They're fighting each other. We're in disgraceful. The problems of this country march on and the President and the Congress aren't doing a hell of a lot about those problems. That kind of dysfunction more than anything else weakens our democracy and weakens our national security. That's what I worry about the most.

[Stephen A.]

I will say this before I let you go. I think it's utterly disgraceful that the President act the way that the acts, the way that he acts on too many occasions. But I think it's equally, if not more damning and disgraceful that we have 435 representatives in the House, five 100 representatives in the Senate. That's 535 elected officials and the half that's on the side of the, of the, of the incumbent, the right. Most of them don't seem like they have a spine to even stand up to the things that he wants to do and to stop him. I think that I don't give a damn what he wants to do. If they're standing together and they're putting the American people first, then there's little that he can do to offset that kind of momentum.

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

But they don't seem to recognize it

[Stephen A.]

because I believe they're too damn interested in keeping their jobs and not nearly enough interested in doing their jobs. I'll give you the last word, sir.

[Leon Panetta]

Stephen, you're absolutely right. We elect people to public office to govern, to do what's right for the country. The Congress is supposed to be a check and balance in our system. These people are supposed to stand up and do what's right. And instead the people from both parties, frankly, both parties, rather than standing up, rather than saying, this is what the country needs right now, or we're not going to allow this to happen, rather than doing that, they're just simply sitting back and kind of crossing their fingers that somehow the country will be okay. That's not good enough. We don't elect people just to go back to Washington to save their seat. We elect them to govern and to make tough decisions. I tell the kids at our institute, in a democracy, we govern either by leadership or by crisis. If leadership is different, people are willing to make tough decisions and do the right thing, we can avoid crisis, but if that leadership isn't there, we'll govern by crisis. And that, unfortunately, is where we're at today.

[Stephen A.]

Sir, so honored to have gotten your time. Thank you so much for being on my show tonight. Know that I'm here if you ever need me for anything. I'm just a call away. I'm a huge fan of yours. I appreciate the work that you've done, the service that you've provided for this country all of these years. I deeply appreciate you. And you know, you always got a home here. Feel free to call, call in anytime. Welcome to have you. Welcome on. You're welcome to come on board. Thank you so much.

[Leon Panetta]

Thank you, my friend. It's good to be with you and good to be with your listeners.

[Stephen A.]

Thank you so much. The one and only Leon Panetta, former CIA director, former White House Chief of Staff, former Secretary of Defense for the United States of America, right here with George Truly straight shooter with Stephen A man make it sense don't act like he don't know y'. All. He knows. He knows more than I know. He knows more than you know.

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

He knows more than practically everybody knows

[Stephen A.]

because he's been around that long and you've seen the positions that he's held. Still retired and still getting secret information. You heard him say it going after Iran was justified.

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

Democrats said it wasn't. He saying Trump was right.

[Stephen A.]

It's just a follow through has been awful.

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

You heard him right here on Straight

[Stephen A.]

Shooting with yours truly. Stick around. 86696 POTUS is the number to call up this 86696 POTUS. 866-967-6887. You're listening to Straight Shooter with yours truly, Stephen A. Your calls for the remainder of the show. Up next in a minute. Don't go away. 31 minutes past hour. Number two back here, straight Shooter with your true Stephen A. Thanks again to Leon Panetta and wonderful Jen Psaki. We have liberals and consistent conservatives on this show. We've had approximately 55, 50 to 56 guests on this show since September 17th we debuted. 27 have been Democrats, 24 have been Republicans. And that's only because we just did two liberals today. So it was at 25 and 24. You listen to everybody on this show. We're going to continue to do just that. 86696 bonus. Let's go to Jimmy in Massachusetts. You're live. Stephen A. What's up, Jimmy?

[Various Callers]

Hi. Is there a feedback here?

[John (Caller)]

Do you need to know?

[Stephen A.]

Jimmy, I hear you. You're live on the air. Go ahead and make your point, buddy. Go ahead.

[Various Callers]

I just want to tell you, first time caller, I think you're amazing. I would vote for you if you ran for president. I will say I just got in the car. I heard the tail end of the Leon Panetta interview. And what I want to point out is process, which I think he was referring to Iran perhaps deserving what they have may be the right thing to do, but it's all about how you do things. Everybody wanted out of Afghanistan. It's how Biden did it that was the problem. And I think process is always just as important, as admirable as the end game.

[John (Caller)]

And I'll leave it at that.

[Various Callers]

But thank you for being such a gracious host and I love your show.

[Stephen A.]

Thank you, Jimmy. Appreciate it. Thank you for the compliments. Thank you so much. Let's go to Moses in New Jersey. You love Stephen A. Go ahead, Moses.

[Moses (Caller, former Marine)]

Hey, Stephen A. Thank you for taking my call, my friend. It's a great honor to speak to you. So I wear a couple of hats. Stephen A.

[John (Caller)]

Right.

[Moses (Caller, former Marine)]

I'm a former Marine deployed to Iraq. I'm a realtor and I'm also a firefighter in New Jersey.

[Stephen A.]

Thank you for your service. Now thank you for your service.

[Moses (Caller, former Marine)]

Thank you. Not a problem. Thank you. So here's the thing, right? When it comes to personality, right, that's not something that I really look for or look into anymore with politicians. Because in my type of field, for example, I'll give you, we can, we have a perfect case study, right? If you were behind enemy lines or if you had an embassy under attack, we got two case studies. We can compare. The embassy in Benghazi, right, where the CIA team had to defy a stand down order to rescue the Americans. But unfortunately, we lost our ambassador, Chris Stevens. He was drugged in the streets and killed. And now we have right now what just happened in Iran. One of the most amazing missions I've ever read about and I guarantee there'll be a movie about. So now here's my, here's my, here's my thing. Stephen A. If you're in that situation, right, I don't care about personality. I care about policy and personnel. Who's in place to make sure that I come home?

[Stephen A.]

I'd like to, I'd like to push back on that. May I?

[Moses (Caller, former Marine)]

Of course.

[Stephen A.]

Moses served in the Marines. I don't know a damn thing about serving in the military. Moses comes to me and gives me advice about the best course of action. And I got the attitude that I don't need to listen to him because I'm the closest thing to God and I know best, would you be comfortable with that?

[Moses (Caller, former Marine)]

Well, absolutely not. All I have is my perspective.

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

And then what I'm saying, I'm not refuted.

[Stephen A.]

What I'm saying to you is this.

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

If I were a commander, if I

[Stephen A.]

were the commander in chief and I'm surrounded by experts, that's who the hell I'm listening to.

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

I'm not going to do something willy

[Stephen A.]

nilly because I want to.

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

Now, the process that you endure and

[Stephen A.]

how they execute the game plan, I

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

understand he might have left that to them. But your ultimate ulterior motive comes into play that does factor into the equation. And if I'm somebody that comes across as fixated and so narcissistic about everything that involves me and I'm not thinking

[Stephen A.]

about the best interests of the collective

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

whole, including military men and women, then I get where you're coming from. But I'M saying that leaves it in question. So the end doesn't always justify the means because you don't know what you

[Stephen A.]

can trust in the throes of action.

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

Isn't that important? Doesn't that play a role in influencing your performance? The fact that you know that a directive is coming from people who are competent, qualified and most importantly, sensitive enough to avoid by any means necessary putting you in catastrophic harm's way and thinking about those things instead of themselves, does that not matter?

[Moses (Caller, former Marine)]

Moses Now, Stephen A. I agree with you 1000%. But here's the problem as shown right now by the situation happening with Eric Swalwell. And right now, what is it everybody's talking about the Epstein files.

[Stephen A.]

Yeah. Tony Gonzalez. Representative 2 yeah, go ahead.

[Moses (Caller, former Marine)]

Yeah.

[Various Callers]

You know what?

[Moses (Caller, former Marine)]

I care about the congressional files. There was a congressional slush fund of illegal taxpayer dollars that was used to the tune of about think $13 million to pay off NDAs of the women that were being.

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

That's exactly true. That's exactly. MOSES I'd hug you if I saw. I was about to bring that up. I was about to bring that up. That's exactly true.

[Moses (Caller, former Marine)]

Now, here's the thing, Stephen A. Even though I agree with you, because anything most Trump supporters, we don't like Trump. I voted for him, but I vote only on policy, because when a lot of my Democrat and liberal family members and friends describe Trump to me, I'm really hearing Democrats because I know that history did not begin 2016 when he first got elected. You're describing Democrats and you're describing Republicans, and the result was President Trump. That's why the only thing right. And I look at it from the perspective of being in a situation when I was overseas in Iraq, or you

[Various Callers]

could look at it from the perspective

[Moses (Caller, former Marine)]

of a Border Patrol agent where there's only one okay, every five miles of border. The only thing that matters in that situation is policy.

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

Okay. Well, let me say this.

[Stephen A.]

I got, I got to interrupt you because I can't let you go because we got a few callers to get to. But I'm going to ask you a quick question because I agree with you and I applaud you and I think, I think all voters should think like you're thinking in terms of voting on policy. That is true. I do not disagree with you, sir, very, very clearly. But let me ask you this one, and I need a quick answer with all of that being said. Don't give me the war in Iran right now. How are you feeling about Trump overall? How you feeling about your vote right

[Moses (Caller, former Marine)]

now, someone needs to take away his Twitter account.

[Stephen A.]

I got you. That's a fair answer. Boy. I can't even argue with you. That's a fair answer, man. Thank you so much, man, for the call. Appreciate it. Appreciate the love. Feel free to call back anytime. Just had a couple of callers I needed to get to. Greg in Michigan. Boom shakalaka. What's going on? Big time.

[Various Callers]

Hey, Stephen. A Mr. Positive. Oh, my God. Are you sure you don't want to be president? And here's the reason you asked such salient and great questions. And that shows the depth of your knowledge. So, Stephen, a credit my research is

[Stephen A.]

as much as me, but go ahead.

[Various Callers]

You were trending with brother Cece. Chris Cuomo. That was fantastic about what you were, what you said the other night. And last but not least, what type of culture do we have where we enable and endorse someone like Trump? Trump in the MAGA community that thinks he's Jesus Christ and it's acceptable to some people.

[Stephen A.]

Let me.

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

Let me.

[Stephen A.]

Let me stop you right there, Greg. Greg, I love you. You know that. But you're not being fair to the Moses of the world. Moses just called and specifically said he voted for Trump. He does not like Trump in the way that he behaves, but he votes on policy. That's not the reason he voted for Trump. And it's unfair to. Even when we want to mention maga. Maga. Maga. Listen, I don't agree with a lot of stuff that I hear out of maga, but when you hear like, America first, why do we need to engage to be the police to the world? Why do we need to do this and that? Why do we need to engage in regime change? Don't we have enough problems here that we need to fix? I can't knock them for feeling that way. I can't look at them and say they're stupid, they're fools, they're this, they're that. What kind of society would we want

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

if we vote for somebody like that?

[Stephen A.]

Wait a minute. They're voting for a different reason. It'd be one thing if you're like a member of a cult and you just following everything that he says and does, it's another thing entirely. In a binary system, if you're looking

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

at one candidate over the other and

[Stephen A.]

your priority is affordability and you think

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

he'll do a better job, or your

[Stephen A.]

priority is the border and you think

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

he'll do a better job if you voting for those reasons, whether you agree

[Stephen A.]

or disagree, you can't denigrate the voter because of those reasons is all I'm saying.

[Various Callers]

But Steve, do that real quick. Real quick. Does character matter? And do you think

[Stephen A.]

time out, we

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

can't have it both ways? Did it matter with Clinton? Did it?

[Various Callers]

Right.

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

I mean, some people brought up his character, I think. I didn't think, listen, I thought it was ridiculous, all the noise they made about Monica Lewinsky, but they impeached him until the Senate shut it down. They took away his law license, you know, for lying under oath and stuff like that. I mean, when we talk about more, if we're going to get moralistic now, let's not act like the Republicans are the only ones, you know what I'm saying? That appear, you know, a bit shady. It's a whole bunch of Democrats. Look at what we're talking about today. We talk about Eric Swalwell on the left, we're talking about Tony Gonzalez on the right, both of them accused of sexual misconduct and stuff like that. Look, man, we got to be fair. We got to be fair. Is this the right thing to do, Greg?

[Stephen A.]

All right, buddy. Appreciate you. John in South Carolina, you're live with Stephen A. What's going on?

[Leon Panetta]

John?

[John (Caller)]

Hey, Stephen A. Thanks for taking my call. Listen, just my brains bouncing all over based on the last four or five different callers. But really love listening to Leon regarding the war in Iran, which is kind of interesting to me. Congress, A, hasn't been doing their job, B, we haven't declared it a war, which it is. And one of the reasons why they haven't declared that, in my opinion, is because of insurance. So you got all these policies that are sitting out there, and if they declare it a war, then all of a sudden we've got all kinds of mess with all the corporations that are running both of these parties. We need a legitimate third party as well.

[Stephen A.]

Yes, we do.

[John (Caller)]

And as far as your comment on policy, you know, granted, he's he's president whether you vote for him or not, but I just want to make sure who is ever in that chair and who's ever in the chambers, but they've got to go by the rule of law. And if he has an executive order that's unlawful and it takes months or years to decide that that executive order was unlawful, then we got a real problem.

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

Yeah, you know what?

[Stephen A.]

You're. That's a very good point that you make, John. It shouldn't take long. It shouldn't take long to decipher whether the law was followed or not. The Law is on the books. The law is the law.

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

We should know that quickly. I agree with that.

[John (Caller)]

And the members of Congress, if you look at that, even in the impeachment hearings, one another thing, I'm starting my own survey on how can we make democracy better. And at the end of the day, the members of Congress, you know, when they're sitting there in proceedings, they've got everyone else going under the oath of office.

[Stephen A.]

Okay.

[John (Caller)]

And taking the oath for the testimony. I think anybody that's sitting on that floor that's saying anything should be lost.

[Stephen A.]

Okay. All right, I got you. I appreciate the call, John. Thank you so much. And I appreciate your points. They're not invalid, I'll give you that. 86696, POTUS is the number to close. That's 866-967-6887. Back with your calls to close out the show in a minute. You're listening live. Straight Shooter with your boy Stephen A. In the house. Don't go away. Excited to be here.

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

I'm losing.

[Stephen A.]

45 minutes past hour number two. Back in the Straight Shooter with yours truly, Stephen A. Got close to 15 minutes left. Got to go to the fall phone calls relatively quickly. I ain't gonna let you. Y' all get on here and give soliloquies now and dissertations, okay? You gotta get to your points a little bit quicker. But I'm gonna try. I'm gonna listen to you.

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

All right.

[Stephen A.]

Let's go to Vince in Delaware. You're live with Stephen A. Vince, good evening. How are you?

[Various Callers]

Hey, hey, Stephen A. How you doing? Right to it. I just wanted to sit up and ask you, what is your opinion based upon the recent action with Trump? And the account would come with his picture posted. It portrayed as Jesus Christ.

[Stephen A.]

I thought it was great. I thought it was disgraceful. I thought it was an insult to Christians and Catholics everywhere. I thought he was flat out lying. I called him a pathological liar because he said that, you know what? He wasn't trying to portray himself as Jesus. He was trying to portray himself as a doctor. I never saw a doctor dressed like that. I thought he was clearly lying and not owning what he did, trying to deify himself. And I thought it was shameful and highly insensitive. Nor do I agree with him going after the Pope the way that he is. I think it's incredibly insulting to the Catholic and the Christian community. And I said so.

[Various Callers]

And why. And just quick question. Why is it the fact that based upon. With Trump, I feel like he gets a pass with that throughout, like Congress or most of we have.

[Stephen A.]

Stop, stop. We have to grow up. When it talks about him getting a pass, it's not that he's getting a pass from the people that didn't vote for him. He's getting a pass from the people who have. Because their whole point is, is that as disgusted as they may be with his juvenile tendencies, his unprecedential behavior and the like, like Moses said earlier, they're voting on policy. In the end, those kind of incidences doesn't affect a, for, you know, what's in their wallet and their ability to afford their quality of life, et cetera. They're thinking about, they, they hate how he acts. They wish that he wouldn't.

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

But in the same breath, they're not going to let that usurp the importance of policy being in place that they agree with at the expense of letting their emotions get the better of them and accepting an administration whose policies they don't agree with. It's that simple. That's not given a pass. That's living in a binary system and being reminded of the fact that no matter how much you abhor something, you only got two choices and you got to make one of them. And so because of that, chances are you're going to find yourself coming across as if you're co signing or agreeing or okaying or tolerating something that you would normally find intolerable, but you have no choice because it's a binary system. That's the reality. Appreciate the call.

[Stephen A.]

Edward in California, you live with Stephen A. Go ahead.

[Various Callers]

Hey, man, I just want to say, you know, did you, did Leon Panetta just say that the, the Iranians and he had access to the information was literally a week away?

[Stephen A.]

Yes, he did.

[John (Caller)]

Wow.

[Stephen A.]

Yes, he did.

[Various Callers]

That's insane.

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

Listen, but that's not far fetched when you're the former White House Chief of Staff, the former Secretary of Defense and

[Stephen A.]

the former director for the CIA.

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

Let's just say it should be relatively

[Stephen A.]

easy for you to get access to information like that.

[Various Callers]

He got his finger, you know, on the pulse of what's going on. The other thing I would say your comment about the binary choice as a, you know, as a conservative, and I'm literally looked at a picture today of my mom with Rain, Ronald Reagan. She hosted him for dinner. Right. So I'm 59 years old as an old school white conservative, you know, from Scottsdale, I can tell you you're 100% correct in what you're saying about Trump. My brother hosted the Last administration for the chips act at the intel. And it was, you know, and nothing good to say, you know, I mean, but you are 100% correct and I'll shut up now. My last comment would be what happened to my Phoenix Suns, my brother? What happened to my Phoenix Suns?

[Stephen A.]

They lost to a young, thriving team that's very, very physical in the Portland Trailblazers. They still got a chance to win in the next couple of nights so they can get to a playoff series where they will get swept in all likelihood by the Oklahoma City Thunder. But nevertheless, you know, the bottom line is they, they have to play the winner of, you know, Golden State, the Clippers. So who knows if they'll even get to that point. Appreciate the call, Edward. Thank you so much. Let's go to Abel in Texas. You're live with Stephen A. Able. Good evening.

[Various Callers]

Hi, Stephen A. Thanks for taking my call.

[Stephen A.]

Go ahead, sir.

[Various Callers]

Hey, I just wanted to mention the whole, I voted because of this person's

[Moses (Caller, former Marine)]

policy.

[Various Callers]

It's pretty much that's a bullshit statement because Trump ran on no more wars and now we're in a big ass war.

[Stephen A.]

That's not fair. That's not a bullshit statement.

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

If he ran on no more wars before the, I mean, of course he's,

[Stephen A.]

he, he's full of it because look what he's doing.

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

But they didn't know that at the time.

[Stephen A.]

They voted for him in 2024.

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

So you can't say that.

[Various Callers]

They're still, they're still carrying his water. They're still making justifications.

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

No, no, no, no, they're not doing that. That's not fair. Abel. I'm not voting for him. I don't support him. But you're not being fair. Moses came on the show and he said, you vote for him for policy. So the point is he might have lied about when he said no more wars. And that's true, but let's not remember that. But don't remember Leon Panetta, who's a Democrat, the former CIA director, Secretary of Defense, White House chief of staff for two Democratic presidents, not just one, who sat up there and said, hey, he did the right thing by attacking Iran because they were a month away from a nuclear weapon. The Democrats have been telling us that's not true. And Leon Panetta just came on and said, I have acts. I've seen the intelligence. Yes, they did. So the point is we can sit up there and say what we want. The voter doesn't know that the voter is choosing who they have faith in, one or the Other because of the binary system that we look, that we're living in. If you want to contribute like I want to contribute, like everybody should want

[Stephen A.]

to contribute in this country to making

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

this nation a better place. We can't summarily dismiss people as bullshitters because they didn't do what we want them to do or they didn't do what we thought they should have done based on the information they had available to them. They made a choice, respect the choice, even if it's wrong, because guess what, they might course correct next time, but they might not be incentivized to do so. If all we want to do is denigrate them because they didn't make the choice we thought they should make, we got to be bigger than that. We just have to.

[Various Callers]

Are these the same experts who were saying that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction? How many times are you going to get bamboozled or, you know, one minute

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

you complaining about Trump voters, now you're complaining about a former Democratic official as a chief of staff or the Secretary of Defense. So basically you got a problem with both sides, but those are the two sides that we got to deal with in this binary system that we're living in. So what you gonna do?

[Leslie (Caller)]

What?

[Various Callers]

What I'm saying is, I'm tired of

[Moses (Caller, former Marine)]

hearing that the so called experts. You know what?

[Various Callers]

There are no experts in the Middle East.

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

All right, goodbye. Goodbye. No, no. Goodbye.

[Stephen A.]

Goodbye. Because the expertise is about the information that they get to have access to that we don't. You might not agree with him, but don't challenge his credibility as an expert. If the third former Secretary of defense and the former director of the CIA and the former White House Chief of

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

Staff doesn't qualify as an expert, excuse my language, who the fuck does? That makes no sense. I'm not listening to that garbage on this show. The man is an expert. You might not agree with him, but he's an expert. We're not gonna question his credentials. You could question his choice, you could question his decision.

[Stephen A.]

Don't question his expertise. That qualifies as an expert. Lord have mercy. Leslie in Texas, you're live with Stephen A.

[Leslie (Caller)]

Hi, I was just talking about policies. Go ahead, Leslie, can you hear me?

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

Yes, I can hear you.

[Stephen A.]

You're live on the air. Go ahead.

[Leslie (Caller)]

Okay. The policies. He voted that. He voted for Trump's policy. Trump has gotten, you know, getting rid of Medicaid, Medicare, the cost of health insurance has gone up because he doesn't like the aca because Obama came up with it. They're not funding it. They're getting rid of the Department of Education.

[Stephen A.]

Leslie, Leslie, I'm not gonna let you. I appreciate the call so much, but I am not gonna allow you to give a dissertation of all the things that he done. You know why I'm not gonna do that? Leslie, are you ready for this answer?

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

Who told you that some of Trump

[Stephen A.]

voters don't want that to happen. See, the point that we have to recognize is this.

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

When we say, well, you know, he's compromised Medicare or he's compromised Medicaid or he's got us in a new war or he's done this, do you understand that there are millions of people in

[Stephen A.]

America that wanted him to do that.

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

We don't agree with those choices. I side with you. But we have to understand that we live in a country where, where millions of people feel differently. Y', all, everybody acting like, oh, if you voted for him, you must have been fooled when you're not realizing there are some people who wanted that to happen, who believe we've spent too much money on Medicare and Medicaid, who believe we not a pro, we haven't prioritized affordability enough, who are tired of folks coming to us every two to four years raising our taxes, who accumulate $39 trillion in debt and still talk to us about affordability and what money he spending. Well, Trump didn't accumulate 39 trillion in debt. Reagan contributed to that. H.W. contributed to that. Clinton contributed to that. But Obama contributed to that. W contributed to that. Trump contributed to it. Biden damn sure contributed to it. All of us are guilty. All of us. All of us, Leslie.

[Leslie (Caller)]

Well, you are after the policies. I just said I don't like Trump's policies. Other people do, but those are the policies that I voted against. Why? I didn't vote for Trump because of his policy. That's all I'm saying. I didn't say anything else. I said. That's what I. I didn't. That's the reason I didn't trust Trump for his policy. I didn't say about anybody else. I didn't say anybody was stupid or any of that. All I said, those kids policies are really why I didn't vote for him.

[Stephen A.]

Yeah, I didn't say you said. I didn't say you said anybody was stupid or anything like that. I'm just making the case. And I apologize if I came across as accusing you of saying those things, because I certainly did not. Leslie. What I'm saying is I grow in crime increasingly frustrated by people who assume that Trump voters, that all of them are fools, as opposed to recognizing that a lot of them actually wanted the

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

change that he's created. They wanted the system, you know, thrown up, in flux the way he's done it. They've wanted these things. There are millions of people who actually want the chaos he's created because they're sick and tired of the status quo that we've been living on for such a lengthy period of time. They feel betrayed by Capitol Hill. And by the way, how can we blame them? We started off the show talking about Eric Swalwell and Tony Gonzalez being exiled essentially from Congress because of their miscreant behavior. We're talking about 39 trillion in debt. We're talking about nonsense that's going on all over the place in our nation's capital, like it's a damn cesspool with no end in sight. And I have no doubt that Trump is enjoying all of this because they came after him. And come to find out, you've got people on Capitol Hill engaging in the kind of behavior they convicted him of. So this is the kind of stuff that he wants to highlight. The hypocrisy. So the revenge tour. I would like to think we got better things to do with our time,

[Stephen A.]

but evidently we don't in Washington, which is the real damn shame. Got to get on out of here. Stephen A signing off until next Wednesday, y'. All. Hope you enjoyed the show. Peace and love.

[Commercial Announcer]

You're never just one thing.

[Stephen A.]

You're the boss.

[Commercial Announcer]

Hey, Google, when's my next meeting? The athlete that class wrecks me and their mom. Everyone in the all new Mazda CX5 more to move every side of you. Learn [e-mail] Google is a trademark of Google LLC. Sequences shortened and simulated.

[Goto Bank Announcer]

Breathe in. Feel the sense of calm that comes from having up to $300 in overdraft protection with Goto bank. Now.

[Stephen A. (Co-host or secondary speaker)]

Did you say $300?

[Goto Bank Announcer]

Yes. Now back to our breathing.

[Stephen A.]

So if I overspend my balance, go2bank has my back up to $300.

[Goto Bank Announcer]

Yes. Can we breathe out now? Less worries, more zen. With over $300 in overdraft protection, Tap to open an account today. Eligible direct deposits and opt in required for overdraft protection fees. Terms and conditions apply.