TRUMP’S CHAOTIC WORLD; CHRIS CUOMO; LARRY ELDER

Summary

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Podcast Summary: The Stephen A. Smith Show

Episode: TRUMP’S CHAOTIC WORLD; CHRIS CUOMO; LARRY ELDER
Date: January 15, 2026
Host: Stephen A. Smith
Guests: Chris Cuomo, Larry Elder

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Episode Overview

In this high-energy episode, Stephen A. Smith takes his signature incisive style "beyond the world of sports" into a heated discussion about the present U.S. political landscape, focusing on the Trump administration's policies, law enforcement controversies, and broader cultural divides. He is joined by media veteran Chris Cuomo and longtime conservative talk radio host Larry Elder, engaging in candid exchanges about America's direction, civil rights, race, and the 2026 midterm elections. Throughout, Smith takes listener calls, unpacking complex issues with both passion and humility.

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Main Discussion Points & Insights

1. Stephen A. Smith’s Opening Monologue: Chaos Under Trump (00:38 – 19:00)

• Critique of Trump Leadership:
  Smith opens with a forceful critique of President Donald Trump and his administration, arguing that Trump's behavior and policy choices are sowing chaos, harming GOP prospects for the midterms and possibly the presidency.

  • “The man don't know how to act…if I saw him to his face, I’d tell him: he don't know how to act.” (04:46)

• Enforcement, Immigration, and Police Shootings:

  • Discussion of a recent controversial ICE-related shooting in Minnesota (Renee Goode case), and the use of federal force.
  • Smith distinguishes legal justification from moral:
    • “What I did say…is that morally, ethically, humanely, there's no justification. My God, where’s your humanity? What the hell are you doing shooting a woman in the head that was just trying to get away?” (13:36)

• Gestapo Comparisons and Joe Rogan Critique:

  • Cites Joe Rogan’s criticism of Trump’s tactics as "Gestapo-like," emphasizing the bipartisan discomfort with militarized law enforcement.
    • “He used the word gestapo. Now normally you’d listen to folks on the right, and they'd accuse you of hyperbole…what you gonna say about him now?” (15:28)

• Advice to Democrats:

  • Urges Democrats to avoid overreacting and to focus on affordability, healthcare, and leave Trump to his own chaos, predicting Trump's rhetoric could be his own undoing.

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2. Interview: Chris Cuomo on Media, Politics, and Purpose (20:07 – 43:17)

• Cuomo’s New Role and Approach:

  • Chris Cuomo joins to discuss his new SiriusXM morning show; credits Stephen A. for encouraging him to expand his reach.
    • “Stephen A called me and said, listen, you need to have more reach than you have right now.” (20:40)

• Urgency of Real Conversations:

  • Both express concern about polarization and agree that “real talk” via radio can help people interact outside the distorted realm of social media.
    • Cuomo: “The antidote to the social media anonymity and the keyboard warrior is to get people talking to one another again.” (22:19)

• Navigating Media Attacks & Advice for Smith:

  • Cuomo describes personal and professional struggles post-CNN, emphasizing the importance of purpose over fame or money.
    • “I could have matched money, I could not have matched purpose.” (26:37)

• On Partisanship and Race in Media:

  • Cuomo admits the media leans more left but notes the right’s dominance in digital media. He highlights the additional pressures Smith faces as a Black man with complex political views.
    • “Everybody celebrates you and everybody wants to take a bite out of your ass. And you’re also a black man in America…there’s an expectation.” (30:16)

• Challenge for Democrats & Political Advice:

  • Both agree that if Democrats focus on Trump’s chaos and basic issues like affordability, they could win; but warn not to fall into distraction traps.

Notable Quotes

• Stephen A.: “I'm not a black conservative. I'm black with conservative views, but liberal views too.” (31:53)
• Cuomo: “When you're involved in politics, they will build you up, they will tear you down, and they are coming for you. And it is not a fair fight.” (28:10)
• Cuomo: “You’re in a unique position because everybody celebrates you and everybody wants to take a bite out of your ass. And you’re also a black man in America.” (30:16)

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3. Listener Calls & Community Reaction (44:56 – 59:00)

• On ICE, Defunding, and Border Policy:

  • Smith fields calls from both Trump supporters and critics, discussing Minneapolis optics and the political calculus of defunding ICE.
    • “First order of business is to get him to be quiet…it's not working for you.” (45:30)
    • Reminder that many anti-immigrant voices are from legal immigrants themselves:
      • “We’re a mosaic…because we’re embracing people from all walks of this earth.” (46:17)

• Long-Term Problems with Federal-State Cooperation:

  • Callers and Smith discuss the breakdown in local/federal cooperation on law enforcement since the Trump administration.
    • “The level of cooperation that no longer exists…is a huge, huge question.” (54:48)

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4. Interview: Larry Elder – The Conservative Counter (59:02 – 87:02)

On Immigration and Law Enforcement:

• Elder strongly supports Trump’s border policies, criticizes sanctuary cities, and argues that local governments’ refusal to cooperate with ICE forces dangerous street arrests.
  • “If you don't want the ICE people in the streets, allow them into the jails, allow them into the prisons. Don’t be a sanctuary state.” (59:35)

Renee Goode Shooting Debate:

• Elder argues Renee Goode was “radicalized” and that ICE was targeting violent criminals. He defends the agent’s use of deadly force.

  • “Comply, you won’t die.” (66:32)

• Smith pushes back, questioning moral and humane alternatives:

  • “From a humanity standpoint, you could have avoided shooting the woman in the head.” (65:53)

Trump Derangement and Media Bias:

• Elder attributes negative perceptions of Trump to “Trump Derangement Syndrome,” alleging that bias is impervious to facts.
  • “If the man cured cancer, all of a sudden, cancer would be a good thing.” (67:41)

On Black Conservatism and Systemic Racism:

• Elder claims that the most pressing issues in Black America are not systemic racism but family breakdown, education, and crime, all linked to Democratic policies.
  • “The real issues in America are not systemic racism, they're the breakdown of the nuclear intact family.” (76:25)
• Smith challenges, noting the undeniable historical and residual effects of systemic racism.
  • “Can those things be true but still be assisted by a level of systemic racism that at least plagued us?” (79:15)
• Elder rejects that framing, arguing Obama “played the race card” and that Democrats have a “skanky record.”
  • “Republicans in my opinion have a much better record on civil rights.” (85:46)

On the 2026 Midterms and Trump’s Prospects:

• Elder is confident Trump’s accomplishments will resonate, listing economic growth, border security, and foreign policy wins.

Notable Quotes

• Elder: “Comply, you won’t die.” (66:32)
• Elder: “If ICE is rounding up citizens, tell me who they are...If there's any evidence...I'd be the first to scream about that.” (69:06)
• Smith: “Can two things be true...but still be assisted by a level of systemic racism...?” (79:15)

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5. Final Listener Calls & Show Reflections (88:40 – End)

• Confirmation Bias and Polarization:

  • Smith reminds listeners that confirmation bias and unwillingness to consider opposing viewpoints fuels division.
    • “You have to be a grownup and listen to people that have a different point of view.” (89:15)

• Independents on the Rise:

  • Smith highlights a Gallup poll showing independents now outnumber both Democrats and Republicans, warning Trump’s chaos could cost him the center.

• Parallel Case – Ashley Babbitt:

  • A caller compares the Capitol insurrection shooting to Renee Goode, with Smith emphasizing the unique context of January 6th.

• Final Reflections:

  • Smith concludes visibly exhausted but energized by the charged debates, praising honesty and an openness to fact-checking.

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Key Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment | Highlights | |-----------|-------------------------------------------|-----------------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:38 | Monologue: Trump, chaos & ICE | Smith’s critique of Trump’s leadership and law enforcement excess | | 13:36 | Ethics vs. legality in shootings | Smith on humanity and police violence | | 20:07 | Chris Cuomo Interview Begins | Cuomo’s media journey and personal philosophy | | 28:10 | Cuomo’s media advice to Smith | “They are coming for you. And it is not a fair fight.” | | 36:46 | On Trump’s “Distractions” | Cuomo: “Trump wants to fight, not fix.” | | 59:02 | Larry Elder Interview Begins | Elder defends ICE, critiques sanctuary cities, and attacks Dems | | 65:53 | On use of deadly force in MN shooting | Smith/Elder debate over police shooting ethics | | 76:25 | Black conservatism and systemic racism | Elder downplays systemic racism, Smith pushes back | | 88:40 | Listener: Confirmation bias discussion | Tackling polarization and the need for honest debate | | 94:17 | Rise of Political Independents | Smith on how chaos may help Independents |

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Memorable Moments & Quotes

• Smith on Trump’s Mic Addiction:
  “I never heard what the word is that defines somebody addicted to carrying a microphone. ... I got nothing on Trump, not a damn thing.” (07:49)

• Cuomo on Political Media:
  “Negativity as a proxy for insight. And the bigger you get, the bigger a target you are.” (28:10)

• Smith on Race and Ideology:
  “I'm not a black conservative. I'm black with conservative views, but liberal views too.” (31:53)

• Elder’s Mantra:
  “Comply, you won’t die.” (66:32)

• Smith on Dialogue:
  “No, you gotta be a grownup and listen to people that have a different point of view and deduce whether or not they're making sense or not.” (89:15)

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Tone & Language

• Candid, Fiery, and Unapologetic:
  • Smith is passionate, direct, and self-reflective. He challenges his callers and guests but grants them space to air their views.
• Chris Cuomo:
  • Empathetic but wary, stressing the toll of public visibility and the need for genuine conversation.
• Larry Elder:
  • Blunt, data-heavy, and unwavering in conservative orthodoxy, delivering arguments with both humor and intensity.

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Conclusion

This episode is a raucous, unfiltered journey through some of America’s thorniest cultural and political disputes, featuring spirited debate, cross-partisan critique, and a range of voices. Listeners are left with hard questions about leadership, law enforcement morality, race, and media’s role in shaping debate, all delivered in Stephen A. Smith’s singular, vibrant style.

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Transcript

[Stephen A. Smith]

Nobody would ever think that people like us would be spies. Streaming on Peacock.

[Chris Cuomo]

The one thing the Russians would never.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Do is bring on a woman. Most people are not cut out for it, but these women are not most people. That is terrifying. It's exciting. It means we're alive. No, it means we're about to be dead. Starring Amelia Clarke and Haley Lou Richardson. To the kgb, I'm a person of interest, but you two are ponies. Ponies. Persons of no interest. Ponies. Streaming now only on Peacock. What's up, everybody? Welcome to the latest edition of Straight Shooter with yours truly, Stephen A. Coming at you, as I love to do, every Wednesday night from 6:00pm to 8:00pm Eastern Standard Time over the airwaves of Sirius XM POTUS Radio Channel 124. Number to call up, as always, is 866-967-6887. That's 8669-676787-86696. POTUS got a couple of guests coming on the show today. One would happen to be an individual by the name of Chris Cuomo. You may have heard of him. He's the host of Cuomo on News Nation, which airs every weeknight from 8pm at 8pm on News Nation. He's starting a new show this month right here on Sirius XM POTUS radio channel 124 and Morning Drive, actually 7 to 9am so can't wait to talk to him about that, along with some of the things going on and percolating in this country. Certainly that's going to be one subject matter to get into another is going to be with longtime radio conservative talk show host, the one and only Larry Elder, who thinks quite differently than a lot of folks, let's say it like that. But definitely he's going to be on the show as well, because I wanted to talk to him about some things as well. Before I get into any of that, however, I wanted to get to what's on my mind, and that is this. To all the Republicans out there, to all the conservatives out there, you're about to lose the midterms. You're going to lose, and you might lose the presidency in 2028, and it's going to be at the fault of your president, Donald Trump. He's going to blow it for you. He's going to blow for you. I want you to hear it first. And yes, I'm calling them out, my buddy Sean Hattie, because I text him to tell him that Trump is blowing it. He's blowing it. He's going to blow it for himself, he's going to blow it for the gop, he's going to blow it for Congress, he's going to blow it for the Senate, and he's likely going to blow it for the White House. All because of what I said from day one. The man don't know how to act. And if I saw him to his face, I tell him he don't know how to act, he don't know how to act. We want to talk all of these things about, hey, how's the economy, hey, we're not losing those tariff wars. The borders are patrolled, okay? We've rectified some things with the border. Affordability might still be an issue, but we think we'll address that. Safety in the streets, we ain't messing around. Normalcy has kicked in. Blah, blah, blah. That's what we were hearing. That's what we were hearing. We ain't hearing that now. We ain't hearing that now. What you're hearing about is gestapo tactics on the part of ice. What you're hearing about is what happened to going after the hardcore criminals and making sure to deport them as opposed to terrorizing everyday normal American citizens. What we're hearing about is chaos, chaos, chaos and oh my Lord. We don't need to see this again. We don't need to see this again. That's what you're hearing about. And you're hearing, you're hearing a president that doesn't know how to be quiet. You know, crack addicts, there are people that are addicted to crack cocaine and heroin addicts. They're addicted to cocaine and Hurry. And heroin, alcoholics, they're addicted to alcohol. I never heard what the word is that defines somebody addicted to carrying a microphone. Ladies and gentlemen, I, your friendly neighborhood host is on the air between ESPN and SiriusXM. I am on the air live a minimum of 22 hours a week, a minimum of 45 out of 45 weeks. A year. A year, ladies and gentlemen, that equates to over 900 hours. And I've got nothing on Trump, not a damn thing. He can't stop. Every time you turn around, it's something, it's something. Conflict in Iran, we coming Russia, Ukraine, still unresolved, but we're around 25% tariffs on anybody that does business with Iran. I'm here, here. 37 year old woman gets shot in Minnesota. You think you'd hear, we'll investigate the matter, we'll see what comes of it. What you hear is that it was an act of domestic terrorism by Homeland Security Director Christine. What you see is a vice president trying to mimic Trump, trying to be Trump Part 2.0, okay? Mimicking his speech and everything else that he says, chastising the media right in front of their face, because how dare they bring this stuff up and act like she was a victim. He had a president talking about how the ICE agent was harmed, and you see in reports about how it had to be hospitalized. And all of us saw him move out of the way, step to the side, and then pump a bullet into the windshield and ended up shooting her in the head. Now, I know I made news when I said what I said, and I'm going to say it again to make sure I'm being repetitive on purpose so we understand where I'm coming from. I said from a legal perspective, and I know people took it and ran with the headlines and created all of this nonsense and trying to twist and turn my words, but that's okay, because that's what comes with this. What I said was, from a legal standpoint, the officer was justified, because at first glance, that's what I saw. If you're standing in front of a vehicle with an officer standing on the side with them, imploring you to come out and you decide to back up and then try to race off with the officer right in front of you, and he has to move out of the way, otherwise he would have gotten hit, they're going to say that's justification. Whether we agree with it or not, if you got the president, the vice president, the Department of Homeland Security, and you have so much power and influence that you are in control of the FBI and you are in control of the doj, where you think it's going to go, you think this person is going to be incarcerated, thrown in jail, particularly when you throw out information and intel talking about how he was dragged in the streets over a year ago and suffered serious bodily harm because of a similar incident to what occurred in Minnesota over a week ago, that's what you're going to say. But the reality is, is that even though you're going to sit up there and pretend that he was justified legally, what I did say, and what I continue to say, is that morally, ethically, humanely, there's no justification. My God, where's your humanity? What the hell are you doing shooting a woman in the head that was just trying to get away? And all she was doing prior to trying to get away was protesting ICE's presence in Minnesota, in Minneapolis. That's why you have the AG in Minneapolis. That's why you have the mayor of Minneapolis and others imploring ICE to get the hell out. That's why you have the Governor Tim Waltz of Minnesota imploring the FBI to make sure to be inclusionary with the local and state law enforcement officials because they want to be involved, because they can't trust that all of this stuff is going on. And in the meantime, either they get ignored or they get excoriated. And along the way, you're seeing protests in the streets. And before you know it, it's going to extend beyond Minneapolis. It's going to go back to Portland, it's going to go to Chicago, it's going to come to New York. It might end up in la. And what does Trump do? He says he. Essentially, I don't give a damn. It's so bad right now. Even the godfather of podcasting Joe Rogan, who endorsed Donald Trump right before the 2020 election, has spoken out about him. Listen to what Joe Rogan had to say. You don't want militarized people in the streets just roaming around snatching people up. Are we really going to be the Gestapo? Where's your papers? And is that what we've come to? You know what's bad about that? You can't pull off on Joe Rogan what you try to pull off on normal folks because he got his own audience and tens of millions. He's spectacular at doing this. He's godfather this, okay? Make no mistake about it. And let me tell you something what he said. He used the word gestapo. Now normally you'd listen to folks on the right and they'd accuse you of engaging in hyperbole for using such a word. What you going to say about him? You've been raving about him, his support for Donald Trump before the election, how Donald Trump showed up for a three hour interview with him when Kamala Harris passed on, sitting down with him and all of that stuff. And then even in the aftermath of the election, how you could see him with Trump and Trump thought, and they credited Joe Rogan with being an integral element, an integral part of Trump getting elected. Because those young voters out there listen to Joe Rogan and it helped Donald Trump get over the hump and beat Kamala Harris with her 74 million votes. Because why don't Donald Trump had 77 million? What you gonna say about that, man? Now he used the word Gestapo. Not Stephen A. Not folks on the left, not progressive, not moderates, not centrist. Nah, not to say that Joe Rogan is this conservative, righty MAGA dude, because he's not. The point is he's endorsed and supported Donald Trump. Y' all applauded him for doing so. You raved about him doing so, but what you gonna say about him now? And by the way, warning Joe Rogan might not be somebody's bad side that you want to get on. Just a warning to the right. You might not want to go there. You might not want to get that brother locked in on you because you feel you've been slighted. You better pump those brakes. You better move in a different direction. Joe Rogan wasn't the only one that spoke about all the nonsense going on. Donald Trump did, too. But he took it a step further because to distract our attention, in my opinion, that's what he's doing, to distract our attention away from issues of affordability and safety in the United States of America, away from issues that he's not necessarily winning on at this particular moment in time. It isn't as easy to fix as he thought it was going to be. This man, yet again, has engaged in another, what I would dare say is an evasive tactic. There's headlines out of Washington. Trump says civil rights caused white people to be treated, to be very badly treated. And when asked the question by a New York Times reporter by the name of David E. Zanger, he asked the president the question, do you believe that the civil rights protections that Americans had started in the 1960s and so forth resulted ultimately in the discrimination against white men? Have no idea why David Singer would ask that question, but nevertheless, he did. And here was Trump's response, quote, well, I think that a lot of people were very badly treated. White people were very badly treated where they did extremely well, and they were not invited to go into a university or a college. So I would say, in that way, I think it was unfair in certain cases. Trump replied, I think it was also, at the same time, it accomplished some very wonderful things, but it also hurt a lot of people. People that deserve to go to college or deserve to get a job weren't able to get a job. So it was. It was the reverse discrimination. That's just another way of justifying DEI and its eradication, according to Trump. But you would touch that issue in this particular moment in time, when you have ICE agents across America snatching people up. And by no means am I trying to imply that they're not snatching up criminals, that they're not looking for criminals, that they're not trying to get the hardcore Criminals, some of whom are gang members. And I'm not trying to imply that they're not doing that. I recognize that. But there are various others that that is not the case with. And you're just rounding them up. Why? Because the havoc in the streets, the optics of it all is something Trump doesn't mind because he likes to be seen as fighting. He doesn't give a damn. You see, when we bring up the fact that President Obama, during his administration, deported over 3 million migrants, We bring that up to make the case that it justifies what Trump is doing. I'm saying it's not about what you're doing, it's about how you're doing it. And the fact that he's doing it this way, where instead of simply being about the business of trying to fulfill a campaign promise and deliver on what you said, because Obama was very much about deportation when it came to migrants while he campaigned for the presidency in 2007 and beyond. He was keeping his word about the fact that you couldn't just have people crossing the borders illegally and suffocating this country with an abundance of migrants that were going to bleed us economically because stuff like emergency rooms were going to be used as people's health care, and all of this other stuff couldn't have it. But he cared about the optics. He cared about how it looked. He cared about not coming across like a Gestapo regime. He cared about that Trump does it because he wants to show that he's willing to fight and he wants to show force and he wants to be a bully. This is what critics are saying. And he's doing nothing to dissuade you from believing otherwise. Nothing. A matter of fact, he's instigating fights. And why am I bringing up Iran and why am I bringing up stuff like that? You know why? Because the man did campaign talking about America first, and we shouldn't be in wars all over the place. But yet you willing to fight with every damn body supposedly something's gotta give. Now, if you the Democrats, are you gonna be smart or are you gonna be stupid? Are you gonna be like putty in his hands and play right into what he wants you to play into? To distract all of us from the real, from the issues we really need to be focused on, or you gonna take his rhetoric and respond to that at every turn, or, dare I say, lean heavily towards the progressive left.

[Chris Cuomo]

And.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Get caught up in focusing on Mom, Donnie and the whole nursing strike in New York City. And we're talking about equal pay and we're Talking about minimum wages being raised and all of this other stuff that. Not that that lends itself towards socialism, but, you know, he's a socialist. Are you going to give Trump the ammunition to lean on that, or are you going to keep America focused on the chaos that's going on and say that's not what we want? Somewhere along the lines, you've got to ask yourself that question, because somewhere along the lines, in the very, very near future, we're going to need to have an answer. I'm here to tell you that right now. We got to go to break in just a second. 866-967. 6887. That's 86696 POTUS. When you think about what Trump is going to do, he's going to make the argument he's done a great job. The right's going to make the argument he's done a great job. Open borders was addressed. You know, left opposed energy dominance and independence. While he did it, folks are still clinging to woke in DEI culture. He's not doing that. How the Dems oppose, you know, targeting and taking out Iran's nuclear sites. Defund, dismantle, no bail. They're gonna point to all of these things, sanctuary city and state policies. They gonna have the ammunition against the left. If you're the left, focus on health care, focus on affordability. Accuse him of not focusing on that and get the hell out of the way and let him continue to speak. It's an opportunity. Are you gonna blow it or not? Because Trump is blowing it. That's my opinion. What's Chris Cuomo's opinion? We'll get to that next. The new host, SiriusXM Pulus Radio, channel 124, where the morning Drive show is about to come on right now. Stick around, don't go anywhere. You're listening live. Straight Shooting with Stephen A. Back with Chris Cuomo in a minute. Nobody would ever think that people like us would be spies. Streaming on Peacock.

[Chris Cuomo]

The one thing the Russians would never.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Do is bring on a woman. Most people are not cut out, but these women are not most people. That is terrifying. It's exciting. It means we're alive.

[Chris Cuomo]

I know.

[Stephen A. Smith]

It means we're about to be dead. Starring Emilia Clarke and Haley Lou Richardson. To the kgb, I'm a person of interest. But you two are ponies. Ponies. Persons of no interest. Ponies. Streaming now only on Peacock. Welcome back, Straight Shooter with yours truly, Steve Stephen A. It is my honor and privilege to have my next guest. My first guest for the night's show on the show. Right now, he hosts the nightly News Nation show. Cuomo. That's not all. On January 20th, he will return to SiriusXM POTUS radio, channel 124 weekday mornings with Cuomo, mornings from 7am to 9am Please welcome my buddy, the one and only, Chris Cuomo. What's up, big time? How are you, man? How's everything? Congratulations.

[Chris Cuomo]

Trying to be like you, Stephen A. Trying to be like you.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Well, please, I'm trying to be like you. Listen, it's you to blame. Let me just start off by saying this to America and everybody else. I mean, if you want to criticize my politics, blame him. He's taught me most of what I know. It's all his fault. It's all his fault. It's Chris Cuomo. Listen, man, how does it feel? I mean, you get ready to start in the mornings. Obviously you're much needed. I love the fact that you're going to be on POTUS Radio. Talk to me about why you decided to do this and what it means to you.

[Chris Cuomo]

The truth. You want the truth?

[Stephen A. Smith]

Yes, of course I do. Always.

[Chris Cuomo]

Stephen A called me and said, listen, you need to have more reach than you have right now. I'm over here at Sirius xm. I had talked to Stephen A as a friend about my experience there. He said, I believe we could use you on the team. I think you should think about it. And that got me thinking about what I could do. So, all joking aside, Stephen A. Absolutely came to me and made this suggestion and gave me the advice, and I appreciate it. And the reason that it made sense, especially in the morning, is that we need something to counter the narratives and the sides. And morning Drive time TV is huge. Whether you're at home on the SiriusXM app or you're in your car, it's really important for us to have a place where people can have a voice and say what doesn't make sense and what they want to see that they're not seeing, so that they're not dominated by the social media minorities anymore. And that's why I'm doing it.

[Stephen A. Smith]

You know, when you think about it from that standpoint, obviously you've always tried to enlighten everybody to the best of your ability, but the thing about it is it now seems more urgent than ever. Looking at the world that we're living in, thinking about what you hear people say, how you see people interacting with one another, about one another, et cetera, do you find yourself feeling there is more of an urgency to really reign in things to some degree and to really make sense of what's going on in our political atmosphere right now, subject.

[Chris Cuomo]

To the aphorism that nothing is ever as bad or as good as it seems in the moment. I agree with you. And I think the key word is what you said, Stephen A. Which is interact. Even just being able to talk, like the idea that people in person or people on the phone are going to be the way they are when they're doing this, it's not how it works. It's not how human beings work. And I think that is the antidote. The antidote to the social media anonymity and the keyboard warrior is to get people talking to one another again, to listening to each other, to interacting for real, not behind this digital veil. And I think radio can do that almost uniquely these days.

[Stephen A. Smith]

You know, I'm looking at you on News Nation, and obviously you've done a great, great job. As far as I'm concerned, you're the face of News Nation, as well you should be. But the other side to it is that when people, because there's critics everywhere, one of the things they say when they watch you is that, oh, my God, look at him. He's playing both sides. You know, that's what I hear all the time. We're playing both sides. And you and I talk about it a lot. Some things you agree with the one side about, some things you agree with the other side about.

[Chris Cuomo]

What's.

[Stephen A. Smith]

How is that a crime? But apparently that is in this day and age. Will your radio show be an extension of what we see on News Nation or if it's going to be different, how would it be different?

[Chris Cuomo]

It's going to be different in format, and the difference in focus is that it's going to be a lot more about you, not Stephen A. Because I already gobble up as much of his time as I can. But it's going to be about people weighing in, people checking me, checking what they see as media narratives. So in that way, it's much more of a response mechanism than it is me talking at or talking to the format is going to be. I will have guests, but not that much. Not like I do on News Nation or even on my podcast, the Chris Cuomo Project. It's going to be that. Here's what social media is telling us is trending today, and my positioning will be, the trend is not your friend. Here's what's deceptive about this. Here's where it comes from, here's why they're doing it. This way. Here's why these things are trending this way, even if it's the right topic. And then we'll talk about it. And when I have key guests that make a difference early on, I'll have a lot of people come in just so the audience understands my reach and who I can get to and who I can have be part of the conversation. But the most important guest is the person in the car or listening on the app.

[Stephen A. Smith]

You know, a lot of people don't realize this. They may not remember this. First of all, you've been in the news business for many, many years. Okay, Your previous work, that ABC News chief law and justice correspondent. We all know you from the work that you were doing on your show at cnn. You've gone through a lot over the, you know, years ago, certainly in recent memory. Nothing, nothing at all. But in the past, particularly with cnn, you went through a lot of. When you think about what you endured, I mean, was there a time when you lost faith and you had to get it back? Or has it always been the case where you never did? You always knew that, you know, what the things that you're doing now is exactly what you intended to do and you were always going to do it. What was that mentality like? Where were you on that?

[Chris Cuomo]

Well, when you're down, you're down. Anybody who's ever been knocked on their ass in a fight or figuratively, I've had both happen on numerous occasions, nobody is thinking about doing anything about, but whether or not they have the strength to get back up and what is that strength? My biggest regret of what happened surrounding my brother and my time at CNN and how I got ousted is what I did to my family, what I did to my wife and my kids and my siblings and the family that I choose, my friends and not being really conscious of it in the moment. And that has haunted me professionally. Professionally, I wasn't going to return. I was going to go podcast and curate my own stuff. And I remembered what my father had said to me, what I was doing at cnn. What I'm doing at News Nation would have been my father's dream for me in the media. Not a big fan of the media, Mario, by the way, but he would have loved this. Why? The ability to expose the game. And I remembered that, hey, I don't do this because it's a job I could make. Certainly now that I had to take big pay cut, I could certainly make this money doing other things. But even when I was getting paid at cnn, I could have matched money, I could not have matched purpose. And this is what Stephen A. And I have talked about a lot personally, when I was talking to him about expanding the way he is, is the reason to do it is not the cash. It's not even the cachet. It's the purpose. And I have passion for purpose that is more powerful than anything that comes along with putting myself into the arena, into Thunderdome. The price is enormous. You're learning that every day. I am willing to pay it. I am much more protective of how much of it gets on my family.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Right. You know what? You brought up my name, so let's go there. Could you tell people, I'd like you to share with people what advice you've given me as I ventured into this lane. Venturing away, never leaving sports because you know how much I love doing my sports, but in the same breath, venturing out into this new lane, not knowing nearly as much as you and others, but still having a perspective and opinion and stuff like that. Because you. You're a friend of mine. You're one of the people that I've leaned on to ask advice for, one of the very few people. And I'd like you to share with folks what advice you've given me.

[Chris Cuomo]

Well, consistently one. I've told Stephen A. That his wisdom is obvious and his learning curve, as he puts it, is part of your value. It's a credential for you because you're open. You're open. But what I said is. And look, it's true, and I wish you didn't understand it as well as you do now. This is different than any other media environment. When you're involved in politics, they will build you up, they will tear you down, and they are coming for you. And it is not a fair fight. And it's nothing silly like deep state or in fake news or any of that nonsense. It's competition and negativity as a proxy for insight. And the bigger you get, the bigger a target you are, the more value there is in coming at you. And the problem is for guys like you and me, although, to be fair to Stephen A. He's much more emotionally sophisticated than I am when it comes to confrontation. He will. He'll let the talk be the talk. Frankly, I could never go into politics, as I would absolutely punch somebody in the face. Just a matter of time. The fact that it doesn't happen more often already is astounding to me, given my personal limitations. But you can't fight. You can't defend yourself, because nobody is doing it only because it's right. It's because it works. And the bigger Stephen A. Gets and the more reach you have, the more people are going to come at you, if only because they want to own you. They want to own your perspective, they want to own your loyalty. They want you to say only what's good for them, because what you say matters. And when you don't do that, whether it's about color, whether it's about cachet, whether it's about politics, they want you to be theirs and only theirs. And if you are not, they would rather destroy you than see you be anything else. And that sounds dramatic, but let me tell you, if you're living it, it is dead on accurate. That's how it is.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Is that both sides or one side more so than the other?

[Chris Cuomo]

You know, I think that each side believes that the same thing about the other, which is, you know, we kind of go at ourselves a little bit more. The other side's much better about sticking together. Each side says that about the other side. I think, look, I'm biased, right? My personal experience has been that the media and the high priests who tend to be more left inclined, although I think the media is set up to be left because it's set up to speak for the powerless and the voiceless and the little guy. And that used to be lefty politics. Now it's a little bit of an open question who's really speaking for the little guy. But they came for me. I've seen both sides do it, but the media is largely controlled more by the left than it is by the right. That's changing digital media. That is not true. The right dominates digital media, and that's changing a little bit. But you are in a unique position because everybody celebrates you and everybody wants to take a bite out of your ass. And you're also a black man in America, and that carries a very specific responsibility, which I think you own very well. You're very proud of what and who you are, and I have never seen you forget it. The problem is there's an expectation. You don't see a lot of black conservatives. Why? Well, you got to talk to people in the community about how they feel about it. But it is a tough line to walk, and I enjoy watching you walk it. But I feel for you as a friend and as a defender when I know it's unfair.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Yeah. And I'm not a black conservative. I'm black with conservative views, but liberal views too. But I get what you're saying. 1,000%. Let me get back to you. And it's a sensitive question, but I'm gonna ask it because I'm really fascinated about the prospect of what your answer is going to be. What would your dad, the great former governor of New York, Mario Cuomo, who my mother loved more than anything? There's no politician she's ever loved more than Mario Cuomo. Your dad, what would he think about what he's seeing from you now hosting News Nation? Being in this bubble, dealing with the things that we have to deal with as a society and how you go about delivering the news and attacking issues every day the way that you do. What would he say to you now compared to what he may have said about you years ago when you were doing the same thing, whether it be for CNN or anybody else, if he were alive today?

[Chris Cuomo]

The easy part, that's a great question, by the way. The easy part of the analysis is in terms of the what we're talking about here, the blood sport of Thunderdome and taking people down.

[Larry Elder]

Talk is cheap.

[Chris Cuomo]

And he was not a talker in that way. And he would have been very disappointed. Anytime I engaged, anytime he heard that I had said something to somebody online or something like that, he'd be like, don't be a big mouth. Shut your mouth. You got a problem with somebody, go find them and talk it out face to face. See what happens that way. Don't do this. Don't be a gossip. But he also would have had a fundamental misunderstanding of what's controlling the energy in our environment right now because he didn't live this social media, luckily for him. On a personal level, I think as a parent, as I understood him, I think he would have had a hard time because he would have seen the pain that has been present in my life and is still present in my life and how I'm struggling to deal with. I mean, I got a lot. I mean, you know, Stephen A. Counsels me on this as a friend all the time. I have a lot of unresolved for all my philosophy and all my leaning on self help and what I give people as perspective on what works, that doesn't mean I do it well. And I struggle with feeling wronged and feeling like I failed and like my I don't have the platform that I would have had and I can't help the way I could have. And I blew it. I blew it. And it drives me on one level, drives me crazy on another level, but I think my father would have been, you know how it is. We're both parents, when you, when your kid is hurting and you can't really do anything about it, maybe they're not even wrong to feel the way they do. Like, yeah, this, this kind of sucks. You're going to have to work through this.

[Stephen A. Smith]

It's hard.

[Chris Cuomo]

And I think it would have been hard for him that he can't help me with my own struggle.

[Stephen A. Smith]

You know, let's move on because I want to get to some of these issues that are percolating in the news. But I had to ask you that question because I think that, not that you haven't done Radio 4, because you did radio on a big time level. That's why they're bringing you back, to be honest with you, and they should. But between television and your two hours every morning, you're going to be talking a lot more, which means you're going to be tackling a lot more. And there's very few people more qualified to do it at this level than you. And so I wish you luck. And that's why I asked you that question, because I know you're going to have to be thinking a lot more about and you're going to have to be speaking a lot more than you normally you can speak about something at evening at 8 o', clock, Chris, but you and I, I'm on TV at 10 o', clock, you chilling, you get working out, you get, you're doing your things and then you say, all right, I got till tonight to really sit sound off about this stuff. Now you got to sound off 7 in the morning. So it's gonna be really different for you. But I can't wait. Let me get to some of these issues before I let you go. I think that, and I said this earlier, Trump is blowing it for the gop, regardless of what you wanna say he's doing. Whether or not the tariff wars are working, whether or not the border issue is working, whether or not the economy, the recession or an inflation, all of that stuff has been, we've avoided a collapse per se and all of this other stuff. To see ICE doing what it's doing, to see Trump attacking people, the FBI going to a Washington Post reporter's house to see Trump with a headline in Washington. Trump says civil rights caused white people to be very badly treated. It just seems to be circa 2020 where he's getting in his own way. And I think if the Democrats are smart enough to stay out of the way of that, they could actually win the midterms. What are your thoughts?

[Chris Cuomo]

I see, I smell what you're cooking, be careful what you wish for, is part of the kind of coda on what we've seen from this administration thus far. Trump wanted to be able to do whatever he wants, whenever he wants. And I think that for all his savvy, the man who has himself for a client has a fool for a client, and he needs better counsel. What ICE is doing around the country is not only in my opinion, illegal, it is unethical, and it is un American. And you can have the argument any way you want. Nobody's saying that you don't enforce the law. Nobody's saying that you don't go after violent criminals. That's great. It wasn't done enough in the last administration.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Go ahead.

[Chris Cuomo]

That's not what you're doing. And from how you're doing it, it doesn't seem like that's what you're really about. You're not about fixing, you're about fighting. And for Kristi Noem to have on her podium one of ours, all of yours, is the most absurdly un American thing. And I think it is going to haunt them right through the midterms because what he has done to distract from affordability and the cost of living, and I believe that's what this is. STEPHEN A. I don't think he can tackle it the way he thought he would. It's not EAS easy, and he wants easy. And that is going to be a problem no matter what metric you pick. If the left focuses on affordability and the realities of the cost structure of people in our inability to have purchasing power that we used to have, the only distraction from it will only make it worse for Trump. I just wrote a piece. I don't even know when it comes out. But you know the expression that the kids are using 6, 7 now, what is that? It is nothing. It's a protest mechanism for them. Everything means something now. Six, seven means nothing. And it's kind of like our generations, whatever. But I redefine it. Six, seven in the midterms is going to be January 6th and January 7th. Everybody knows what happened on January 6th, and it changed things. For people who are non MAGA and some who are MAGA, what happened on January 7th to Renee Goode and how the administration tried to demonize her and distort the reality is going to leave a mark. Calling her a domestic terrorist. I think that the way they're doing things shows a cruelty, shows an incompetence, and it's going to haunt them in the midterm subject to what? Let's see how bad the other side screws it up. Because there is an amazing opportunity right now. This administration is doing its best to look its worst when it comes to the midterms.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Last question here. Another thing is about the sanctuary cities. Trump has said he's going to stop funding sanctuary cities and states. A lot of people on the right agree with that. Some centrist independents, even moderate left leftists, they agree with that as well. Sanctuary cities, you're ignoring the federal government and because of that, you've got a lot of problems. And he's saying we're not going to fund it. I don't know if that's a losing situation for him. Do you view it that way?

[Chris Cuomo]

So what is curious to me about the sanctuary city issue? Because I'm old enough to remember how it started. I don't know why they called them sanctuaries in the beginning, because that's not what it was. It was local municipalities, not one to hold people for the immigration folks. When it used to be called immigration and naturalization, they didn't want to hold them. They were getting sued and they were losing. That's how this started. Now they're sanctuaries. It is curious to me that the administration doesn't do what Trump does best when someone is against him. Sue. Why aren't they suing and going to the Supreme Court to test the constitutionality of sanctuary cities? There's a very good chance they would be found unconstitutional in terms of how they are being operated in specific instances. They don't do that. Why? They like having it as a foil.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Yeah.

[Chris Cuomo]

And defunding it is better than doing it, in my opinion, the right way. I don't believe this is workable. I think it is wrong for ICE to be doing what it is. I think it is. If you changed how ICE is doing what it is, then it would become wrong for state and local governments to not be working with federal government. They would be on the illegal side of the equation. But because of how ICE is doing it, you're giving them a little bit of COVID Now, for cover they should not have, but you can defund them if you want. That will be a political score. But I don't think it really moves the needle. What would move the needle is changing the status quo. Get rid of sanctuary cities, get rid of all levels of government working together because you agree about what you're doing. And all you have to do is do what you promised. Go after the bad people and do it with the local authorities instead of Trying to bigfoot them. Nobody's gonna push back against that, Stephen.

[Stephen A. Smith]

That's what Obama did.

[Chris Cuomo]

The left against arresting criminals. That's not what. They're not against that. Some of them are, but those are the crazy ones. Everybody's got their crazies.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Basically handled it the way Obama handled it during his presidency, where he deported more. He deported more people than Trump did actually in his first administration. But he did it in a far more classier and easier way to stomach than what we're seeing.

[Chris Cuomo]

And why did he do it that way? Because he wasn't grandstanding on it. And look, I'm not lionizing Obama. Everybody's got their pluses and minuses. But compared to Trump, he acted with a lot more presidential dignity and class, in my opinion. But he wanted to fix it. He wanted these people out because he had campaigned on it. That's not what Trump wants. Simply, he wants to fight. He wants to look like he's owning and beating the left. And he wants a muscularity and a harshness and a might makes right that he believes is a potent message for his people.

[Stephen A. Smith]

There you go. Catch. Cuomo Morning. Starting January 20th on Sirius XM. POTUS radio, channel 124. Proud to call you a friend and a brother. Really, really happy for you. Much needed here on POTUS Radio. I can't wait. I'm happy that you decided to come on board, my man. Big things are ahead for you. You know that. Big things are ahead, my man. You take it easy, all right? I'll see you soon.

[Chris Cuomo]

Stephen A. Thank you for the opportunity. I'm here to help. If I'm doing that, then I'm doing the right thing.

[Stephen A. Smith]

All right, my man. You take it easy. One and only Chris Cuomo right here with Stephen A. Straight shooter with Stephen A. 866-967-6887 is the number of Columbus 86696. POTUS, your calls up next. And then some. Stick around. You're listening live to Straight Shudu with yours truly, Stephen A. Back with more in a minute. Nobody would ever think that people like us would be spies. Streaming on Peacock.

[Chris Cuomo]

The one thing the Russians would never.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Do is bring on a woman. Most people are not cut out for it. But these women are not most people. That is terrifying. It's exciting. It means we're alive. No, it means we're about to be dead. Starring Emilia Clarke and Haley Lou Richardson. To the kgb, I'm a person of interest. But you two are ponies. Ponies. Persons of no interest. Ponies streaming now. Only on Peacock. 52 minutes past hour number one. Back here in a straight shooter with Stephen A. Coming at you as I love Zoo every Wednesday night from 6 to 8pm Eastern Standard Time. Over to Airwaves with SiriusXM Polos Radio 86696. Polish is the number 866-967-6887. Let's go to the phones to close out hour number one. I'll start off calls with hour number two as well before bringing on Larry Elder, longtime conservative talk show host. So looking forward to talking to him as well. Let's go to the phones. Let's go to Paul in Ohio. You're live with Stephen A. What's up, Paul, how are you? Good evening.

[Callers]

Hey Stephen, how you doing? Just want to let you know, been watching you since 2016 on the Cavs won the finals. So I'm a Trump supporter. I voted three times for him. So my question to you is how does the administration rebuttal from the imagery of what's happening in Minneapolis, specifically the Renee Good situation. And then also, do you think it would be smart to for using defunding ICE to be used against the Republicans when the budget bill comes up at the end of January?

[Stephen A. Smith]

I do believe, I don't know if they'll get up. They'll get away with defunding ice because the Republicans control the House and the Senate. I don't think they'll be able to pull that off. That's number one. Number two, I would tell you, how do you quell all of this momentum aimed at Trump? The first order of business is the to get him to be quiet. It's the first order of business to show him that, look, it's not working for you. I mean, it's just not. I mean, listen, we wanted our borders closed because Biden opened them. In an ideal world, we would have wanted to emulate what Obama did, do things constitutionally correctly, make sure that you deport people that deserve to be deported, focus on criminals and you know, an unlawful individuals that are pervasive in this country and law abiding citizens that happen to be migrants and immigrants, give them a pathway to being in this country. Try to make it as easy as you possibly can, pull off to some degree or at least easier than a process that presently exists. I understand that some people may not like it, but I think the one thing that we have to remind ourselves as American citizens is a lot of people who complain about migrants in this country are people who are not from this country but are American citizens or here on visas or whatever that went into this country the right way. They're the first people to tell you, some of those folks got to go back. And we keep forgetting that. We keep acting like it's an us against them mentality. We're a mosaic. We embrace everybody. And so, because we're embracing people from all walks of this earth, and you have an abundance of people who are not born American citizens, Native American citizens, and they're the ones telling you, nah, send those folks back. You gotta remind folks of that. Because they stood in line and entered the country legally and properly, and others didn't. But unfortunately, because Trump is addicted to the camera and the microphone, combined with instigating fights at every turn, the second he gets a chance, it's resembling chaos. Which is exactly what transpired in 2020. Not exactly, but somewhat of what transpired in 2020, which is why he didn't get reelected, regardless of what he says. And so that's what we have to pay attention to.

[Chris Cuomo]

Paul.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Appreciate the call.

[Callers]

Appreciate you.

[Stephen A. Smith]

No problem. Thank you so much. Scott in Maryland, you're live with Stephen A. What's up, Scott?

[Callers]

Hey, Stephen, a privilege to talk to you and thank you for taking the time to do a show like this on potus. You know, it's great for you to hear your voice and be able to ask you questions to. Two quick points. Love your conversation with, with Chris Cuomo. You talked about affordability. How do you, how do we get around talking about affordability? Is this just like vague buzzword and talking about what we have to do, which is so tough for. Let's take, for example, energy prices and heating and electricity prices. But do you not build the data centers? You not keep up with the Chinese with AI technologies like it's.

[Stephen A. Smith]

You should be doing all of that because the fact, the fact of the matter is, is that we want to call ourselves a superpower and call ourselves the greatest nation in the world. We don't need to be looking up at anybody, particularly China or Russia or anything in between. And in order to do that, we maybe energy independence is the way to go. Controlling our borders to some degree so we're not bleeding ourselves economically is another way, in some people's eyes, eyes to go, in Trump's eyes, the tariff wars and making sure that. Because you have to remember why the tariff war is in effect, because everybody knows that America, as one of, if not the richest country in the world, spends more than anybody. So we're the world's greatest consumer, per se. And because that's A reality. When you're posing tariffs on folks, what you're doing is also saying, I'm going to discourage America from spending money on you and your products. And as a result, that's where you hope that people will come into play. When we look at Venezuela, for example, you're talking about all of this stuff about oil. Is it really about the United States getting barrels of oil, or is it really priority number one about keeping it away from Russia and China getting access to that oil? Because if they're doing business with Venezuela and they're getting it all from them, and now we play a role in controlling who gets what and how much do they get, and you have to deal with America, all of a sudden we're in a privileged position again. And if we're in that privileged position again, assuming that's how people view it, if we're in that kind of position, then it puts us in a stronger position than we were in, which lends itself towards addressing issues of affordability that exist within this country, because we have more than we had prior to him arriving. At least that's what they're trying to say. That's what you're doing. We hope that what he's doing is work because we shouldn't be rooting against some of these policies to not work. But still, in all, we just got to do a better job. And he has to do a better job of just keeping his mouth shut. Stop instigating, stop reminding us of the chaos his administration caused, you know, back in 2019, 2020. Because at the rate he's going to, the Democrats are going to win the midterms because somebody's going to come along as voters and say, we just need better checks and balances. We can't have this guy being a loose cannon. That's my position. Our number two. Up next, Straight Shooter was Stephen A. Be back in a minute. Nobody would ever think that people like us would be spies. Streaming on Peacock.

[Chris Cuomo]

The one thing the Russians would never.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Do is bring on a woman. Most people are not cut out for it, but these women are not. Not most people. That's terrifying. It's exciting. It means we're alive. No, it means we're about to be dead. Starring Emilia Clarke and Haley Lou Richardson to the kgb. I'm a person of interest, but you two are ponies. Ponies. Persons of no interest. Ponies Streaming now, only on Peacock. Welcome to hour number two of Straight Shooter with George. Truly, Stephen A. Coming at you, as I love to do every Wednesday night, 6 to 8pm Eastern Standard Time over the airways of SiriusXM POTUS radio. Number to call up, as always is 866-967-6887. That's 866-967-68 87. That's 866-96-POTUS. Before I go back to the callers, before Larry Elder comes on, longtime conservative talk show host, a black conservative radio talk show host, long, long time, long before I have him on the show. And thanks again to Chris Cuomo for coming on the show in hour number one, by the way. Just wanted to take a moment to give my condolences to the family and loved ones and to pay my respects to a civil rights pioneer by the name of Claudette Colvin. She was known for her courageous 1955 refusal to give up her bus seat in Montgomery, Alabama. You know, this is before Rosa Parks actually did it as well. But she passed away on January 13th at the age of 86. And so her family confirmed it, along with the Claudette Colvin Foundation. Her act of defiance predated Rosa Parks, as I just explained, and made her a key plaintiff In a Brower vs. Gayle, the lawsuit that successfully challenged bus segregation in the United States of America. So she wanted to take a moment. She was one of four plaintiffs in a Browder vs. Gayle case. Ultimately, the bus segregation case was declared unconstitutional. She ultimately moved to New York and became a nurse. And so my condolences to her family, my gratitude to her for, you know, her service to the black community and to this nation. Claudette Colvin, gone but not forgotten at the age of 86. Let me get back to the calls at Triple 8. Mad Dog 6. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. 86696 POTUS. That's 866-967-6887. Back to the phones we go. Let's go to Keith in New York. You're live with Stephen A. Keith, good evening. How are you, bro?

[Callers]

Hey, Stephen A. Love the show.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Thank you people so much.

[Callers]

Good work.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Appreciate it, man. Thank you. Thank you, man. Go ahead.

[Callers]

Not a problem. So, you know, I'm going to talk a little bit about the issue with Renee. Renee, good. You know that, I mean, there are unsubstantiated reports that she was part of ICE Watch, which that's one, that's, that's one thing that's, that's out there. But I want to also, you know, point out that, you know, during the prior administrations, you know, the Obama administration, the Bush administration, Clinton administration, you know, there was cooperation, you know, with local jurisdictions to hand ICE over. They take, you know, they. People surrendered in the courthouses, you know, and then you have the issue of, you know, what's going on with the Trump administration, which, you know, again, it's, you know, you look at these videos, I'm sure a lot of people have watched, and people, you know, crazy. I'm a native New Yorker. I watched, you know, part of the other riots going down on Houston street not that long ago, and it was, you know, quite, quite a show out there.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Also, Keith, let me say this to you. I want to applaud you for calling up and bringing up this issue, because you've brought up a very poignant issue that I haven't heard one single caller address in weeks about ice. You spoke to the level of cooperation between the administration and the White House, the federal government and local and state law enforcement. There was a level of cooperation. The question is, why has that cooperation not existed? And my point is that's a huge, huge question. Because if the level of cooperation that no longer exists, that lack of cooperation, if we're going to say that it started in 2016 when Trump came into office and it's continuing now, then that means that either Trump is engaging in a whole bunch of stuff that is considered unconstitutional, or the local and state officials in sanctuary cities, specifically, specifically, by the way, are being impediments to laws being executed and exercised. And therefore, we'll be in a position to really, really point the finger of accountability where it belongs. Right now, we all believe it's Trump because we see the optics and it doesn't look good. It looks absolutely, positively awful. If, however, we're able to discover that this stuff is being instigated by folks on the left, and I'm not talking about moderates and centrists and that kind of stuff, I'm talking about the extreme left, and you're talking about sanctuary cities. Because if we find out that it's instigated by them, that's a different argument. And now we're going to have to entertain a lot of conversation and dialogue about the specificity about what's transpiring, what's going on and why. We're going to have to find that out. Because, see, here's the thing, and this is one of the things, Keith, that I'm struggling with, and maybe you can answer it for me. I don't like the fact that local and state governments get the right to usurp federal authorities and just ignore the laws that they want to ignore. I don't like nor trust Trump and his administration. I don't like them. I don't want to trust their agenda. When Biden had negotiated what was deemed to be a bipartisan deal about the border, remember, it was reported that the Republicans backed away because Trump needed them to back off so he could use it as a campaign tool while trying to regain the presidency. See, I'm suspicious about all of that. But if we're finding out, if we were to find out that a lot of the stuff that's going on is because it was instigated by the left specifically to make it look the way that it's obviously looking, and it was aimed specifically for the Trump administration as opposed to when Obama was in office, George W. Was in office, Clinton was in office, et cetera. We've got ourselves a problem. Keith. I'll give you the last word.

[Callers]

Cannot agree anything with the left. They're both so charged in this country. And the reality of it is somebody says something's green on one side, the other person's just going to say it's yellow. And if you can't agree on a simple thing that is obviously in your face, that is a real, real, real big man. I really appreciate it and hopefully I keep up the great work.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Thank you so much. Listen, ladies and gentlemen, I thought he was going to be coming on a little bit later on to the show. To much to my pleasant surprise, he's on earlier. My guest is a nationally syndicated conservative radio host, author, and a former presidential and California gubernatorial candidate. His nationally syndicated radio program airs weekdays on the Salem Radio Network. Please welcome for the first time the Straight Shooter with Stephen A. Larry Elder. It's been a long time. My man. How are you, man? How's everything going?

[Larry Elder]

Everything is going great. You left out one thing. Sex symbol. Come on, Stephen A. Come on.

[Stephen A. Smith]

What did I leave out? What did I leave out? What did I leave out?

[Larry Elder]

Sex symbol. Internationally renowned sex symbol.

[Stephen A. Smith]

My bad, my bad. I'm sorry. I'm sorry, Larry. I left that out. Listen, first of all, first of all, how you doing? Number one, Happy New Year to you. And secondly, how do you feel about everything that's been going on, the optics? First of all, with everything that's been going on in the streets of America, especially in California, Chicago, Portland, sanctuary city, stuff like that, what are your thoughts about all of this?

[Callers]

That.

[Larry Elder]

Well, well, you know, I'm a big Trump guy. I'm a big Trump supporter. So you and I probably will disagree about some of this stuff. Look, Biden let in probably at least 10, maybe 12, maybe 15 million people in the last four years. And the left didn't say, Jack Obama deported more people than Trump did. He deported them over a period of eight years. Nobody said a word. Luis Gutierrez, a congressman from Illinois on the House floor, refer to him as the deporter in chief, but nobody called him a fascist or a Nazi. If you don't want the ICE people in the streets, there's a real easy way to avoid that. Allow them into the jails, allow them into the prisons. Don't be a sanctuary state. They're the ones that cause ICE to go out there on the streets and have to go out and get people from factories, from places, from homes. Because the sanctuary policies are that when you are an illegal alien, you've done your time. Rather than get allow ICE in so you can be deported, they put them on the streets. ICE have to go out and get them. So you want to stop that, stop being a sanctuary city, stop being a sanctuary state?

[Stephen A. Smith]

Well, first order of business, you know me, you and I have met a few, a few times over the years. I respect the hell out of you and your position. You're absolutely right. I don't agree with everything. I'm not a Trump supporter, and I don't agree with everything. But that doesn't mean you're, you're not right with a lot of stuff that you say. And I love it when people try to debate you because it usually ends up being a very, very bad debate for them. So I'm not trying to do that. I'm just asking questions because I want to hear where you're coming from. I'm not going to try to debate with you about some of these things. But I got to ask you, I get what you're saying, but let's go to the situation in Minneapolis for a second because that remains to be the top story. Following the ICE killing of Renee Goode, the White House wasted no time blaming Goode for her own death. You said on your show that she was radicalized. How so?

[Larry Elder]

Well, she belonged to something called ICE Watch, which is kind of a loose organization of people that train people on what they can do to interfere with what ICE is doing. Doesn't mean that that is, that it's unlawful, but it does mean that, that she was not out for a Sunday drive, minding her own business. She was in the street for about four minutes. They told her repeatedly to get out of the car. She refused. At that point, she was technically under arrest, yet she continued driving the car. She was driving a deadly weapon, also known as a car, and did in fact hit that officer, who sustained some internal bleeding, according to ABC and cbs. So I'm sorry, you are trained to use the amount of force necessary to deal with the threat. It was a deadly threat. They used deadly force. She shouldn't have been out there. She shouldn't have been doing all of this. She's a mother of three people. Don't you have other things to do than to interfere with what ICE is doing? And ICE was there to arrest violent, criminal illegal aliens. That's why they were there. Homeland Security Post Stephen A. The people that they arrest, they arrested four or five people just in one day, one of whom was guilty of having sex with a minor. Others were involved in other violent offenses. Since ICE had done this operation in late December in Minneapolis, They've arrested over 1500 violent criminal illegal aliens. Now, if I'm the mayor of Minneapolis, if I'm the governor of Minnesota, I should be happy with that. I should be happy that these people are taken off the streets and therefore innocent people can walk the streets without fear of being attacked. I don't understand why they're resisting, other than it's Donald Trump again. Obama deported more people. Nobody said Jack. Biden let in all these people. Nobody said Jack. Now Trump's trying to do something about it, and now all of a sudden he's a Nazi. He's a thief, fascist. Terribly unfair.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Well, first of all, I'm. We don't call them Nazis, fascist or any other names on this show anyway. We ain't even going at. We don't call them that. We don't feel that way. I'm not. I'm not going to engage. I'm never going to do that to him because I knew him before he was president and I'm not going to be a hypocrite. And all of a sudden, because I disagree with his tactics and stuff like that, all of a sudden, forget all of those. I've said that a thousand times. You know that about me. But I want to get back to the training that you alluded to when it came to ice ages. When we hear the word agent, for example, it suggests that ICE recluse roots have undergone extensive training. But according to news reports, the training was reduced from about five months to about 47 days to get more agents in the field. And that number was chosen because Trump is the 47th president. Can we both agree that that's a damn problem? Can we, can we at least acknowledge, Larry Elder, that that's a damn problem. Can we do that?

[Larry Elder]

I have heard that the number has been reduced to 47. I haven't heard any real confirmation of it, but I have heard the same thing that you've heard. If that's done just because he's 47, that's pretty silly. The question, though is can you train somebody in 47 days when in the past it took six months? And the answer is, I don't know. But this officer had been on the force for, I think, almost 20 or 30 years, the one involved. So certainly, however they're doing the training right now, he's not a victim of it.

[Stephen A. Smith]

LARRY Elder, let's talk about that Minnesota shooting In this one respect. Let me remind you what my words were were. I said from a legal standpoint, he's a law enforcement official. He's standing in front of your car. There's another law enforcement official that was standing at the side of your car. They wanted you to get out. You backed up and then tried to race off, okay, with the officer still in front of the car. From the visual that I saw, automatically because of that combined with the president, the vice president, the Department of Homeland Security, et cetera, saying that the officer was within his right, you know, that legal ramifications for this in all likelihood are not going to come his way. What I said, however, was morally, ethically, humanely. Did you have to shoot the woman? 3. Did you have to shoot at a three times? Did you have to shoot in the head? I understand that she, you know, when she shouldn't have just driven off when they asked her to get out the car. You law enforcement, get out the car. I drive, you know, I tell people this all the time. I get pulled over by police officers, all four of my windows are coming down, my hands on the steering wheel. I'm dealing with law enforcement. I saw the Chicago police speaking about this. That's law enforcement. I'm not a law enforcement officer. They are. I'm going to listen, period. So I'm not defending that, but what I'm saying is any kind of training, even though they don't train you to shoot the tires. And I understand that just from a humanity standpoint, you could have avoided shooting the woman in the head. You could have took out a tire or something to prevent having to kill the woman. What about people who make that argument?

[Larry Elder]

LARRY ELDER well, first of all, they don't train you to shoot out tires. In fact, they train you not to shoot out tires. But here's the point. He is a law enforcement Officer, the woman was technically under arrest. She was driving a deadly weapon. Officers don't have a duty to retreat. Civilians do, but officers don't. Essentially, she was a fleeing felon, and the officer's duty was to deal with the threat. And threat is lethal. You use lethal force to stop it. Again, it's her fault for being a fleeing felon. It's her fault for not getting out of the car when she was asked repeatedly over a period of around four minutes, had the car in the middle of the street. That's the problem. Comply, you won't die.

[Stephen A. Smith]

So, Larry Eldo, having said all of that, do you not concern yourself, at least with the optics about how detrimental this could end up being to the gop? Because everybody's not Republican, everybody's not maga, everybody's not a Trump supporter, everybody's not conservative. You've got a lot of independents out there, you got a lot of moderates out there, not just the left that's going to look at it and say, damn this damn chaos. It reminds me of 2020, you know, it reminds me of chaos in the streets. We don't want it. He's got to lose the House or the Senate. We got to get back some level of control. So there could be checks and balances. Do you concern yourself with the fact that the rhetoric, the optics, not just on this part. J.D. vance, who I believe is Trumpish in his language, his verbiage, Kristi Noem, the way she is, I think it could end up costing them, just so people in America could feel like there's some semblance of control going on as opposed to imagery. And I know it's not a autocracy. Please, I don't engage in that either. I know better than that. We got a court system. He's lost enough court cases for us to know that it's not an autocracy of okay, but in the end, do you not concern yourself with this having a negative effect on you?

[Larry Elder]

Here's how I see it. Stephen A. There is something in this country called Trump Derangement Syndrome. If the man cured cancer, all of a sudden, cancer would be a good thing. If the man was able to walk on water, the New York Times would publish an article saying Trump can't swim. There's something called Trump Derangement syndrome. I've had three or four friends I've known for all over 40 years, one of whom has a son with special needs. And he insists that Donald Trump mocked a disabled reporter. I went over the whole thing. He did not mock the reporter. He mocked reporters retreat from the story. Reporter doesn't gyrate the way Trump did at that town hall when he was mimicking him and didn't seem to matter. There's something about people who don't like Donald Trump and they don't want to. They don't want any information that would make them change their point of view. So my long way of saying it, it doesn't matter how it looks. If you dislike Donald Trump, you will interpret anything negatively because you just don't like the man. It's almost a pathology. Maybe someday Johnson and Johnson will develop a vaccine for it.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Did you hear that Joe Rogan said that? What's going on in the streets of America right now? I mean, we all know how powerful he is, how influential he is with the millions upon millions of followers that he has listening to his podcast. He basically used the word gestapo to describe what we're seeing in the streets of America. Is there a reason for the Trump administration for conservatives to be concerned when hearing something like that from somebody who endorsed President Donald Trump?

[Larry Elder]

If ICE is rounding up citizens, tell me who they are. If American citizens are being pulled from their cars, tell me who they are. I keep hearing stuff like this. I haven't seen it. It is ridiculous to refer to them as Gestapo. They're going after people who are in the country illegally, who are violent criminals. As Tom Homan says over and over again, the worst of the worst. If there's any evidence that they're pulling out citizens, I would be the first to scream about that.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I haven't seen it, but I don't want to say I've seen it. I've seen people claiming. Because we know people can lie. We know there's paid operatives out there on boats. We see all of this stuff. We've seen it for years. But I'm saying they are saying there are people that have said that's exactly what's happening. We have seen people accusing the Trump administration, accusing ICE and what have you of engaging in such behavior. We have seen that.

[Larry Elder]

I've seen the accusations. I want proof. For example, the new mayor of New York, Zoran Mamdani, just said one of his staffers was detained, arrested by ICE for no reason. Well, it turns out the staffer was in the country illegally. And according to the Department, Homeland Security had a. An arrest record for assault. Now, Mondami left all that stuff out. So when I hear things like this, give me the facts, give me the details. If, if ice, ISIS pulling out American citizens That's a bad thing and I want to know about it.

[Stephen A. Smith]

You're one of those guys that have, you know, you've got a motto, we've got a country to save. What does saving the country mean to you right now?

[Larry Elder]

Protecting the values that make made America great. For example, Zoran Mamdami, in his declaration, in his inaugural address said something like, we need to replace the harsh, rugged individualism with the warm embrace of collectivism. What the hell does that mean? America is about rugged individualism. You think that Henry Ford developed the Ford because he wanted the warm embrace of collectivism? You think Elon Musk did all the stuff with SpaceX and the things he's doing because he wants the warmth, embrace the collectivism. America is about hard work and thrift and accountability and a government that's limited, a government that gets off our backs and lets us realize our potential to the extent that we can. That's what this country is all about. Half of Americans under the age of 50 want a democrat socialist to be president in 2028. What the hell is that? That is scary to me.

[Stephen A. Smith]

How scared are you, considering the kind of stuff that we've been talking about and how it may serve to alienate the country against Donald Trump? And I preface it by asking by saying this. Let us not forget that before COVID Donald Trump was sitting pretty, economy was going well. I mean, he looked like he was gonna cakewalk to reelection. And then Covid happened. Protest in the streets happened, the racial reckoning, as a lot of people say. And as a result, he ended up being out of office for four years while Joe Biden was in office. So we know this kind of stuff can end up derailing whatever momentum he thinks he has. How concerned are you, Larry Elder, that that's exactly what's transpiring before our very.

[Larry Elder]

Eyes right now about the four years, by the way he was out of office. I think they were a blessing in disguise. He was able to calm down, relax, look what he had done wrong, realized that he needed to have different people, more loyal people around him. And it gave the country four years to watch a left wing guy like Joe Biden say things like climate change is the biggest existential threat to allow all these millions of people in to pull out from Afghanistan the way he did to get inflation at a 40 year high. I think America sat back and said, this is what happens when you have a left wing guy like Joe Biden. And there was a renewed appreciation for Donald Trump. But your question is, am I worried about the midterms Am I worried about the future? Absolutely I am not, because I don't think the economy is going to do well. I think the economy is poised to take off like a rocket ship. All these things in the big beautiful bill are about ready to kick in. No tax on tips, different tax rates on overtime, different tax rates on Social Security, able to expense things when you have a small business. All these things are going to make the economy take off. I think we could see 5, maybe even 6% GDP growth. But given that ABC, NBC, CBS, where people still get the primary largest amount of their news, hate this man. He still won't get any credit for it. So I'm very concerned about this. I'm concerned about the optics of ICE, as you put it. What people signed up for was for ICE to go after the worst of the worst violent criminals. To the extent that people perceive ICE to be going after people that are not violent criminals, who've been here for a long time, who've not committed any other offense other than entering the country illegally, that's a problem. Also for female voters, it's a problem that RFK Jr has cut down the number of vaccines that kids are supposed to get on a mandatory basis. A lot of women don't like that. So there are a lot of reasons. But also historically, the party out of power in the midterms picks up seats. Only a few times in the last several decades has that not happened. So Trump is going to be facing that no matter what he would be doing. But given the fact that this man is disliked, given the fact that he's credit for nothing. I mean, look at GDP growth, 4.3%. Gas prices around the country now in some states under $2 a gallon, border secured in about a month. He smashed the three nuclear sites in Iran. He's helping to destabilize Iran. I think the country is almost ready to topple. He forced the European allies to put pony up the money that we're spending for Ukraine. He's gotten the UN nations allies to put up 5% of their GDP when they weren't even doing 2%. The man has done some extraordinary, extraordinary things. He negotiated the release of the hostages and the, and the remains out of Gaza. This is extraordinary. In just 11 months. Are you kidding me? But he's getting very little credit for it because people hate his guts.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Well, damn it, Larry Elder, what has he done wrong? I mean, is there anything that he's done wrong? Larry Elder? Tell me that. Okay. I mean, affordability, affordability is still an issue. In this country it still is an issue.

[Larry Elder]

GDP growth 4.3%. People's income is exceeding inflation. Inflation now down around 2.7%. It's going to go even lower. He's done things I haven't liked, but they're minor. I mean, I mean going after the Fed chair to me is silly. Telling banks we're going to make you cap your interest rates at 10% is interfering with business. Just like a minimum wage interferes with business. I don't like that. Saying I'm going to take Ukraine, Greenland militarily is a negotiating tactic. I probably wouldn't have phrased it that way. I wouldn't have said the comments that he made about Rob Reiner. There's some minor things but overall on the economy, on foreign policy, on the borders, on DEI things I care about, I give them an A plus.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Larry Elder for years you have, you know, you are who you are. You are, you're a black conservative. I am not. I private, I consider myself a moderate even though people call me conservative just because I have some conservative views and I'm not willing to sit up there and call everybody who disagrees with me a racist. Okay, I don't feel that way. But I have to ask you, because you're far more qualified than me because you are definitely legitimately a black conservative, what is it like being a black conservative in America now compared to what it was like being one a decade ago, two decades ago, three decades ago?

[Larry Elder]

Well, I think there are more people in the black community who are rethinking their knee jerk allegiance to the Democratic party. For example, for black men, Trump got about 20% of the vote. That's extraordinarily high. So I think people are realizing the real issues in America are not systemic racism, they're the breakdown of the nuclear intact family. In the mid-60s, 25% of black black kids into the world without a father in the home, married to the mother. Now that number is 70%. Why? Because Lyndon Johnson, a Democrat launched a so called war on poverty. And since then, in my opinion we've incentivized women to marry the government and incentivize men to abandon their financial and moral responsibility. Secondly, the schools K through 12 urban America are absolutely abysmal. 85% of black 8th graders either 13 year old kids. Stephen A. Can neither read nor do math at grade level. And then there's crime. There's a great deal of crime. Not just in Chicago which gets all the pub because it's the biggest city with the highest absolute number of murders. But on a per capita basis there are Greater Homicides in St. Louis, in Newark, in New Orleans. And this is a consequence of the breakdown of the nuclear intact family. These are far more serious problems than anything else I can think of. Michelle Obama recently whined about having to stray her hair because she says black people are forced to comply with white standards of beauty. I never heard any black woman say that. A and B, this is what you're concerned about. Did she say anything about the breakdown of the nuclear intact family? Even Obama once said a kid raised by the father is five times more likely to be poor and commit crime, nine times more likely to drop out of school and 20 times more likely to end up in jail. How about talking about something like that? How about talking about the large number of kids that can, cannot read or write. Even those who graduate from high, from high school can't read or write. And when they go to, to a community college or a four year school they have to take remedial math and remedial reading. Isn't that a concern? Why don't we talk about something that really matters?

[Stephen A. Smith]

First of all, I think you're right in terms of what we should be talking about more, the issues itself as opposed to people being denigrated. The second, they bring up a salient issue and people don't want to avoid it, don't want to address it and talk about the facts involved. I will say this, what Michelle Obama said. I've heard plenty of black women say that. I would. I was raised, I was raised by five women, four older sisters and I'm telling you, black women say that all the time. I just want to let you know that. But let me also say.

[Larry Elder]

Never heard. Wait, Stephen A. Wait, Stephen A. Stephen A. I've never heard a black woman say I feel I should straighten my hair because white people want me to. I've never heard anybody say that.

[Stephen A. Smith]

And I grew up in specifically that quote. But they allude to, they, they allude to it being more receptive. Yes, they do. They have said it, they have complained about it.

[Larry Elder]

It's also fads. In the 60s it was cool to have a natural James Brown. How you gonna get respect? You haven't got your natural yet. For a while he had regular hair and then he went back to doing it before. Really, this is what we're concerned about. Honestly, who care?

[Stephen A. Smith]

You're right about in terms of that we have more important things to be concerned about. But I would challenge you on this. Can two things be true? Can all of those things that you just highlighted in terms of the things that have served to be a detriment to our progress as a community, the things you highlighted, can those things be true but still be assisted by a level of systemic racism that at least plagued us? It plagued us for a long time now. I mean, Jim Crow laws existed, slavery existed. Let's not act like that didn't happen. When you talk about civil rights, it was necessary for a reason. Voter rights, it was necessary for a reason. The Fair Housing act, it was necessary for a reason. And a lot of things that came forward. I understand what you're saying. I'm just pushing back on a point that. Yeah, but it's like almost absolving the other side completely. And obviously the actions and the transgressions of white America definitely is something that was prevalent along the way. Larry Elder, you're going to deny that?

[Larry Elder]

That tweet, even a. It is 2026.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I agree with that.

[Larry Elder]

When Obama ran in 2007, 2008 for the nomination, Gallup asked this following question. Would you vote for a black person? Would you vote for a woman? Referring to Hillary, Would you vote for a Mormon? Referring to Mitt Romney, would you vote for somebody as old as John McCain would be who was also running on the Republican side? 5% of Americans said they would never, ever, ever vote for a black person. 11%, they would never vote for a female. 22% said they would never vote for a Mormon. 42% said they would never vote for somebody as old as John McCain. My point is, Barack Obama had a lower threshold than these three white people that he was running against. When he became president in 2009, he walked into the Oval Office, hadn't signed a single executive order. His approval rating was 70%, even though he got 52% of the vote. Why? Because people who didn't vote for him, they didn't want Obama. They don't want their taxes raised, which he promised to do. They said, at least he'll put a knife to the notion that America remains systemically racist. They pulled for him. When he became president, both blacks and whites thought that race relations would improve. Eight years later, they thought race relations got worse. Why? Because for eight years, the man played the race card time and time and time again. In a podcast, he said, racism is in America's DNA. Really? The first time Gallup asked if Americans would vote for a black man, that's.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Not playing a race card. He was in office for eight years. How many times? I mean, that's not Playing a race card. Go ahead.

[Larry Elder]

The race card over the first time he did it, when he said the Cambridge police acted stupidly. Remember that? They didn't act stupidly. They gave Henry Lewis Gates a perfectly lawful order that he defied by saying, I. I'll. I'll comply if your mama tells me to tell me to comply. And officers got ticked off all over the country. That's why he did that. Beer summit, then Trayvon Martin. If I had a son, he looked like Trayvon. What does that even mean? The man who shot Trayvon Martin was found not guilty. There were no blacks in the jury, but there was a black alternate. The alternate said he would have voted.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Now, Larry, El. Do you know. Is that George Zimmerman? Is that who that was? You know, that man had no business shooting Trayvon Martin, following him, and then suing. Come on, come on, Larry. I mean, I agree. I agree with some things you say, but there's some things that are highly questionable. I'm not gonna sit here and defend that. I can't. I can't defend Zimmerman. You weren't even a cop. You weren't a law enforcement official. What did you think you were doing?

[Larry Elder]

Jury found him not guilty.

[Stephen A. Smith]

That don't make it so. That don't make it right, though. You know, we've seen many times in America where jury decisions by a jury isn't necessarily the right one. Can we at least concede that O.J.

[Larry Elder]

Simpson as an. As an example, you gonna bring up.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Ojimmy, who I think should have been under the jail. Now he was guilty.

[Larry Elder]

Let me give you the other things that this man did. I'm talking about talking about Obama. He embraced Black Lives Matter. Black Lives Matter refutes everything that made black people move forward after the. After slavery, during Jim Crow. In 1940, 87% of blacks lived below the poverty line. Twenty years later, the number had fallen to 47%. That's a 40 point drop in 20 years. Why? Because it was rare for a black kid to be raised without a father. An embrace of entrepreneurship, an embrace of capitalism, an embrace of the values of America and embrace of Judeo Christian values. Black Lives Matter was founded by trained Marxists. Marx, by definition, hated capitalism. Marx was an atheist who hated Jews. And on their website, Black Lives Matter, they attacked the nuclear family as a European phony construct that we don't have to abide by. So the things that made black people go forward are under attack by Black Lives Matter, which Barack Obama embraced. He also had Al Sharpton, who in my opinion, is America's biggest race card, biggest race card hustler to the White House over 80 times. I think the only hustler worse than Al Sharpton is Joe Biden.

[Stephen A. Smith]

So let's be nice, let's be honest. Let's not call a man a hustler. Let's not do that. Because listen, listen, what I'm saying to you is this.

[Larry Elder]

He's a race, he's a, he's a race card hustler extraordinaire and so is Joe Biden. Biden lied for decades about his so called civil rights record. Claimed that he desegregated movie theaters and restaurants in Delaware. He didn't do any of that. Claimed he got arrested trying to visit.

[Stephen A. Smith]

But Larry Elder, what the hell? Respectfully, what the hell were Republicans doing all of these years? Just sitting back and being totally victimized by the left? They've done everything right. They've shown a heightened level of sensitivity to the African American community. They've done things right as it pertains to the economy, the border affordability, safety in the streets. I mean damn, they doing everything right. And you've got me, as much as critical as I am, as I have been about the left, you got me defending the left. I mean because I think, I'm not challenging the information. I want to be very, very clear. I'm not challenging the information that you're throwing out there. But that's, it's also coming across as very, very one sided. There are a lot of things that the Republicans could do better to appeal to minority communities throughout the state country.

[Larry Elder]

Now even a. The Democrats are the party of the Confederacy. They're the party of slavery. They're the party of Jim Crow. They're the party that put in the Supreme Court Justice Roger Tney who did the Dred Scott case. As a percentage of the party, more Republicans voted for the Civil Rights act of 1964 than did Democrats. It was Democrats that did the welfare state that in my opinion has destabilized the nuclear intact family. And as Democrats that are opposing school choice that we that will give black and brown kids a much better shot at getting a decent education K through 12. So over the. So if I were the Democrats, I'd be. That's a pretty skanky record as far as I'm concerned. Republicans in my opinion have a much better record on civil rights, on the kinds of things that would help black people move forward.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Larry, let me say that's why, that's.

[Larry Elder]

Why I'm a Republican.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Listen, I got you, I got you And I didn't even have time to get into it with you about the state of California. So you know what that means. I got to bring you back. I got to bring you back, Larry. I mean, because I know you got a lot to say. And listen, I'm not going to hide from it. I'm going to let you say it because, damn it, if you're right, the audience needs to hear. And if you're wrong, they need to know where to find you so they can address you with it. That's the bottom line. So I'm good with it.

[Larry Elder]

I'm easy to find.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I know you easy to find. I. Listen, man, I got to run. I really, really appreciate your time. Quick answer. The state of California, how are you feeling about it right now? Real quick, please.

[Larry Elder]

Not good. It's only going to get worse. And this man, Gavin Newsom thinks he's going to run for president. Are you kidding me?

[Stephen A. Smith]

Well, you were a gubernatorial candidate. You did, you know, you did go for it. So you know what? You talk.

[Larry Elder]

And I almost won. And I'll tell you about that next time we talk. I almost won.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I will definitely have you back on. You know me, I'm not going to run from it. You're invited back on. I'm going to have a town hall where Republicans and liberals face to face but on opposite sides of one another. I can't wait to have that. You're definitely going to be a part of that because. Because, good Lord, some of the stuff that you say. We got a lot to talk about, Larry Elder. I gotta run right now and you got a radio show to do. So thank you so much for coming on the show, making time out of your busy schedule. I appreciate it and know that you'll be welcome back on. Thank you so much, man.

[Larry Elder]

You got it. God bless.

[Stephen A. Smith]

All right, one and only Larry Elder right here on Straight Shooter with Stephen A. Damn, he said a lot, you know. See, this is where, you know, I ain't no damn expert. I got to sit up there, I gotta look up every damn thing he said. Because you know what? I know the man knows what he's talking about. But still ultra critical of the left, letting the right off the hook. Oh, no. Oh, no. Gotta talk about it, though. Back with more of your calls in a minute. This Straight Shooter with Stephen A. 42 minutes past hour number two. Back here, straight shooting with Stephen A. Ladies and gentlemen, I'm punch drunk. I mean, damn, I had to wipe the sweat. But I mean, I, I, I mean, he was just Throwing haymakers. Haymakers. I like. I like this. And. And I'm critical of the Democratic Party. My damn stuff. But not like that. I mean, did the Republicans do anything wrong? And he said, you should have seen him. He had this big smile on his face as he was just slicing and dicing. I'm like, good Lord. Damn. That was a hard one to listen to. Let me tell you something. Listen, he got his numbers, though. He ain't playing. I mean, he got facts, you know, you got to double check him. Now, I got to go back. I know. I read this stuff, but. But I got to go back and double check. I got to watch the interview and pause. I thank God for dvr. And like, what he said. What? This is what I'm talking about. Like, damn. Oh, my Lord. But you know what? He's a conservative. You know, that's how they roll. So it. Okay, eight, six, six, nine, six, seven, six, eight, eight, seven, eight, six, six, nine, six, POTUS six. Go back to the phones. Let's go to Greg in Michigan. You live with Stephen A. What's up, Greg?

[Callers]

Stephen A. Mr. Positive. Boom.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Shot my brother. What's up, my man? How you doing? Go ahead, buddy.

[Callers]

Oh, my God. Fantastic interview with my man Chris Cuomo. I got to ask you, objectively, can we look at the situation in Minnesota objectively through the prism of confirmation bias? How do we get rid of confirmation bias to look at a situation objectively? When you and I saw that incident in Minnesota, why are we coming up with such different conclusions? How do we get rid of the.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Because, because of the outcome. Because of the fact that you don't believe. You have people who don't want ice there, and then you have people who don't mind. You have a situation where she was in a motor vehicle which is considered a weapon because it could be used forcibly against the law enforcement official. Now, me, and I hope you would understand, there's no reason he should have shot the woman in the head and killed her. There was another way to resolve this, and there is a lack of humanity, a lack of just, just, just morals. I mean, why would you do that? You didn't have to do that. You had moved out the way already, okay? So if you did that, you didn't have to shoot her. And that's all I'm saying. But you are right. There are people that, you know are going to react no matter what would have happened. There is that semblance because we're a very polarized nation right now. And if people disagree with one another, we can't. We have to be disagreeable. And that's something that I'm fighting against. That's something I think Chris Cuomo is fighting against. That's something I think a lot of people are fighting up against. Like, Larry Elder just went off. I don't agree with some of the things that he said, but he damn sure has a right to say it without me hating on him, calling him a sellout, disrespecting him, and acting like he didn't make any salient points whatsoever. No, you gotta be a grownup and listen to people that have a different point of view and deduce whether or not they're making sense or not and go from there. And as opposed to you're hearing something that you don't want to hear, so you have to react with volatility. We have to avoid doing that.

[Callers]

They perfectly said, love you, everybody. Go for your dreams.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Appreciate you, bro. Thank you so much. Richard in New Hampshire, you live with Stephen A. Go ahead.

[Callers]

Hey, Stephen A. Thanks for taking my call.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Thank you for calling.

[Callers]

Basically, what I'm saying is nobody's really asking Trump to, like, cut a check out of his personal bank account. These funds that he's withholding from these basically Democratic states. Does he have the legal right to do that?

[Stephen A. Smith]

He's the commander in chief. It's the federal government. I suppose one would surmise that since Congress controls our budget, that they should be the one flexing. But they're all the reason why you haven't heard people getting into the specificity of that kind of stuff, Richard, is. Is because we all know who's controlling Congress right now. It's Trump. Because if the Republicans in the House don't vibe with him and side with him, he'll get them booted up out of there, or so they believe. And as a result, they've operated according to his, you know, his wishes. And that's the biggest problem. See, everybody keeps talking about Trump, Trump, Trump. To me, just as big of a problem is the Congress and Senate as it pertains to Republicans in both houses of Congress, because you got to show a spine, which is why I like the fact that you, you know, what with the Affordable Care act subsidy issue, you've seen some Republicans that veered away from what he wanted them to do. You've seen them read resolutions where he didn't want them to and stuff like that. That's important because we need to make sure that checks and balances are in place, that if you're somebody that's Just going to vibe and march lockstep with whatever he wants and whatever he says. That's where words like autocracy come into play. And we don't want that in our nation. We want checks and balances. So folks in Congress, in both houses of Congress, have to make sure they not only have a spine, but they're utilizing it.

[Callers]

Agreed? Agreed. I, you know, I'm a, I'm a Black male. I'm 59 years old, and I moved to the states here in the 70s, and we had to do things the right way, which means, you know, you get your green card and you stay for length of time and, you know, you do things the right way. I'm a black male, as I said, I'm 59 years old right now. And Biden should have closed that border. I did not agree with all these immigrants just crossing over.

[Stephen A. Smith]

You know what? To me, Rich is not even about closing it. You can't let 10, 12, 15 million people cross it. You understand what I'm saying? I mean, there's always going to be a few. But you can't let, you can't let that kind of stuff go on in any nation. Nobody else is allowing it in their nation. Why should we allow it in ours?

[Callers]

I mean, they were sending pe immigrants to, you know, Martha's Vineyard and so forth. And it's just crazy. You know, CH might be the president, if he would have just closed that border.

[Stephen A. Smith]

You know, she would have been a president had she not gone on the View. When asked, is there anything you would have done differently? No, I can't really think of anything. No. Hell no. That was not a good answer on her part. That's where she lost the election. I gotta run. Richard, I appreciate the call, man. Thank you so much. AAA I'm sorry. 866-967-6887. That's 86696, POTUS back with your calls to close out the show in a minute. You're listening live, the Straight Shooter with your boy Stephen A. Don't go away. 52 minutes past album number two, back here on Straight Shooter with Stephen A. Let's get to the phones again before we get on out of here for the day. By the way, poll on Americans going independent. According to a News Gallup poll, a record high, 45% of United States adults identified as political independence in 2025, surpassing the 43% measured in 2014, 2023 and 2024. Meanwhile, equal shares of U.S. adults, 27% each identified as either Democrats or Republicans. So there's more independents than Democrats and Republicans, supposedly. And the number of independents have increased while the number of Democrats and Republicans have stayed the same. That's something Trump might have to watch out for as all of this noise and chaos he's creating optically could serve to bite him. In my opinion, that's something I think we need to watch out for, and we shall, moving forward. And Eli in Virginia, you're live. Stephen A.

[Chris Cuomo]

What's up?

[Callers]

Hey, Mr. Smith, great show.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Thank you.

[Callers]

Ashley Babbitt was a 5 foot 2 inch, 120 pound Air Force veteran, unarmed. She wouldn't drive in a car. And she was in the cap of Congress, the Capitol building and was gunned down. And we all saw it. Shot right in the face or in the neck and died.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Hold on, was that the person that tried to climb through? I don't know if it was barriers or whatever. And Secret Service was telling her to get back and she wouldn't and she kept trying to climb through.

[Callers]

Well, what's the parallel between her and. Good, because that officer, whether you agree with it or not, was never indicted.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Okay, well, let me tell you what the parallel is. There was an insurrection that took place on Capitol Hill. They call it whatever they want to. Not everybody that was there were insurrectionists, but there were enough of them and they stormed the United States Capitol. They were threatening the lives of elected officials running our government. And those Secret Servicemen were trying to save the lives of elected officials in the House of Congress. And those folks that were in there had no business doing what they did in storming the Capitol, going in elected officials offices, defecating, you know, you know, you know, doing stuff on the walls, graffiti on the walls, whatever the hell it was that they were doing. Police officers were in danger. You know, you had two that committed suicide. You had one that died on the scene or died there because of the incident itself. You had a, you had them chanting kill Mike Pence, you had them searching for Nancy Pelosi and stuff like that. All of that stuff was going on. Let's not forget that.

[Callers]

How many people were convicted of insurrection? And number two, how many people were convicted of manslaughter or murder?

[Stephen A. Smith]

I do not have that number, sir. Respectfully, I did not know. I did not know. I'll double check that. I'll take your word for it. I'll take your. Well, there were people that were indicted and convicted and ultimately were pardoned or granted clemency by President Trump. That I do know. When he granted about 1500 of them. That I do know. So, again, I appreciate the call. Thank you. And I'm not going to say that your numbers are wrong because I don't know. I didn't, I need to have. I didn't. I didn't expect that question. I don't have that information in front of me. So I don't want to spew facts that I just don't know. I apologize for that. But I do know that Trump pardoned the granted clemency to, you know, about 1500 people because of January 6th. Let's not forget that. Let's go to Nemo in Delaware. You're live with Stephen. Hey, what's up?

[Callers]

Hey, what's up, Stephen A. How you doing, man?

[Stephen A. Smith]

I'm doing all right. Go ahead, real quick. Running out of time, buddy. Go ahead.

[Callers]

All right. I don't have too much to say, Stephen. I just want to say that you're doing a great job and thank you. I've been hearing and I've been seeing people coming at you, negativity and everything, mostly for my people. Listen, man, not longer time. You say it the way it is, you tell the truth. You keep on doing what you're doing. Brother, I appreciate you.

[Stephen A. Smith]

I appreciate you. Thank you so much. Means a lot to me that you would call to say that. Thank you so much, Nemo. Really appreciate it. Virginia in Michigan, you're live with Stephen A.

[Chris Cuomo]

What's up?

[Callers]

Hi, Stephen A. Hello, Virginia.

[Stephen A. Smith]

How are you? We only got a couple of minutes left, Virginia, so go ahead.

[Callers]

Okay. I'm a wife of a fallen soldier of 23 and a half years. And what's going on in Minnesota? I feel sorry that the woman lost her life, but the U. S. Marshal, he had been hurt just a few months prior to and took 30 some stitches to put him back together.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Stop right there, Virginia. Stop right there, Virginia. Quick question for you. If that was the case, shouldn't we be investigating and viewing why he was put out on the front lines knowing that he endured such a traumatic experience? Why? Why would you have somebody that went through that ordeal put right back out there to deal with American citizens when you know good and damn well what he had been through? Why would you do that?

[Callers]

A federal agent, number one, it's against the law to lay your finger on a federal agent.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Fair enough.

[Callers]

You will be arrested at all.

[Chris Cuomo]

Fair enough.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Fair enough. What's your other point? You don't have to belabor that because you're right.

[Callers]

He was back on the front lines and everything.

[Stephen A. Smith]

But you didn't answer my question, Virginia. You didn't answer my question. What was he doing back out there so shortly after such a traumatic experience that would obviously affect his judgment and how he acted? Maybe if you hadn't put him right back out there because of the experience that he endured, maybe he wouldn't have acted with such violence.

[Callers]

Well, maybe if there wasn't so much violence going on with the Somalian people. Killing that black woman. Never saying nothing about that. And raping children.

[Stephen A. Smith]

No, no, no, no, no. Stop that, Virginia. You don't know that. We don't know that. Don't make that accusation. I got to run. I appreciate the call. We got to get on out of here. I. I told you, you only had two minutes. But that's you. You don't know that to be true. Fraud is one thing. Raping children is another. Come on, now. Stephen A. Signing off. Straight shooting with Stephen A. Back with y'. All next Wednesday night, 6pm Peace of love, everybody. Nobody would ever think that people like us would be spies. Streaming on Peacock.

[Chris Cuomo]

The one thing the Russians would never.

[Stephen A. Smith]

Never do is bring on a woman. Most people are not cut out for it, but these women are not most people. That is terrifying. It's exciting. It means we're alive. No, it means you're about to be dead. Starring Emilia Clarke and Haley Lou Richardson. To the kgb, I'm a person of interest. But you two are ponies. Ponies Persons of no interest. Ponies streaming now only on Peacock. USAA knows dynamic duos can save the day. Like superheroes and sidekicks or auto and home insurance. With usaa, you can bundle your auto and home and save up to 10%. Tap the banner to learn more and get a'@usaa.com bundle restrictions apply.