Pat Patterson - SAS CLASSIC

Summary

The Steve Austin Show — Pat Patterson – SAS CLASSIC
PodcastOne | September 11, 2025

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EPISODE OVERVIEW

This special "SAS CLASSIC" episode features WWE Hall of Famer Steve Austin in an in-depth conversation with wrestling legend Pat Patterson, live from Hollywood, CA. Centered around Patterson’s memoir, Accepted, the episode explores his extraordinary journey through wrestling’s territories, his pioneering role as an openly gay figure in the industry, the evolution of match psychology, and his impact on pro wrestling’s backstage culture and booking. The discussion is candid, humorous, and moving, offering valuable insights for fans and students of wrestling history.

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KEY DISCUSSION POINTS, INSIGHTS & TIMESTAMPS

1. Early Struggles and Finding Wrestling ([01:24]–[10:47])

• Patterson recounts his impoverished upbringing in Montreal—living with 11 family members in a two-bedroom apartment, with limited access to hot water and basic amenities.
• Patterson’s first encounter with pro wrestling: A promotional wrestling ticket came with a loaf of bread his mother bought—a moment that hooked him for life ([08:48]).
• The allure of performing for an audience was apparent from his youth, be it as an altar boy or while attempting to join the circus:

  “I went up to perform in front of people. Don’t ask me why. I don’t know.” — Pat Patterson ([08:08])

• First steps in the Montreal wrestling scene, learning the ropes (and taking beatings) from veterans, often being “stretched” more than taught, yet persevering ([11:54]).

2. Breaking Through and the Value of Mentors ([10:47]–[22:29])

• Patterson’s hustle: Charming his way into wrestling venues and carrying suitcases for English-speaking stars like Buddy Rogers, despite his own language barrier ([10:47]–[11:44]).
• Adoption of the name “Pat Patterson” by randomly picking “Patterson” from the dictionary ([20:43]):

  “I take the dictionary and I closed my eyes … the first name I saw was Patterson. Pat Patterson. That was it.” — Pat Patterson ([21:28])

• Key early stops: Montreal, Boston (under Tony Santos), and Portland (Don Owens’ territory), where he hones his craft and leadership in the ring ([19:05]–[22:29]).
• Early realization of the importance of ‘leading the match’ as a worker and the difference between merely following and actively constructing the narrative of a bout ([22:54]).

3. Developing Psychology: The Art of Selling and Being a Heel ([24:00]–[33:34])

• The gradual shift from move-based to psychology-based wrestling—“making holds and simple struggles mean something.”
• Importance of having a “mean streak” as a heel:

  “When you throw a punch, your facial expression—you mean it. You just don’t do it for fun … The facial expression is so important.” — Pat Patterson ([18:46])

• Importance of selling, as exemplified by Nick Kozak:

  “Put a reverse headlock on him … he would fight it and fight it … then when he came out—Jesus, that was that easy.” — Pat Patterson ([32:24])

4. Famous Partnerships and Territories: Stevens & The Cow Palace ([33:34]–[39:32])

• The Ray Stevens partnership as the “Blond Bombers”—highlighted by effortless chemistry and fun in and out of the ring:

  “He could have a match with his eyes closed … he was loved by the boys.” — Pat Patterson ([37:02])

• Colorful stories about working San Francisco's Cow Palace—recounting riots, genuine fears for safety, and the heat generated in those classic venues ([39:13]–[40:29]):

  “I’m lucky to be alive … trying to get out of there. If you just cheated to win the championship, forget it.” — Pat Patterson ([39:13])

5. Learning from Geniuses: Roy Shire, Eddie Graham, and Match Finishes ([40:29]–[46:49])

• Roy Shire and Eddie Graham as wrestling “geniuses,” especially in finish design and match psychology.
• Patterson’s reputation as a finish guy began to form in San Francisco under Shire’s guidance and later with Vince McMahon Sr.:

  “Even the best—even Vince—needs to ask for ideas, it’s no different than a wrestler needing feedback to improve.” — Pat Patterson ([41:22]–[42:15])

• Detailed origin story of the Royal Rumble and Vince McMahon’s initial skepticism, only for TV executive Dick Ebersol to greenlight it ([46:51]):

  “Tell him your stupid idea … I gave him the idea … he loved it.” — Pat Patterson ([47:28])

6. WWE Years: Transition, Booking, and the Montreal Screwjob ([53:59]–[74:39])

• Pat’s move to New York (WWWF/WWF) and consecutive MSG main events with Bob Backlund.
• Differences between Vince Sr. and Jr.:

  “Senior wanted the northeast … Junior wanted to go to the moon.” — Pat Patterson ([67:24])

• Transition into an executive/agent role—booking matches, working behind the scenes, and his affinity for helping talent like The Rock, Shawn Michaels, and Steve Austin.
• His account of the Montreal Screwjob:

  “I had nothing to do with it. I did not know.” — Pat Patterson ([72:34])

• Emotional fallout, including his honest (and heartbreaking) interaction with Bret Hart afterward ([74:39]).

7. Personal Life, Coming Out, and Legacy ([25:25], [77:25]–[86:19])

• Meeting lifelong partner Louie, decades-long relationship, and the need to protect both the wrestling business and his identity in an era of homophobia ([25:25]–[29:28]).
• Coming out publicly on Legends House and its cathartic effect:

  “It felt good to say it. … It felt good to be me now.” — Pat Patterson ([82:55])

• Ongoing struggle of kayfabing both personal and business lives for decades:

  “I could not live my life the way I wanted to.” — Pat Patterson ([84:31])

• Decision to write his memoir Accepted, prompted by Vince McMahon and a desire to help others:

  “I wanted to do it before I die, for Christ’s sake.” — Pat Patterson ([86:03])

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NOTABLE QUOTES & MEMORABLE MOMENTS (with timestamps)

• On his WWE:

  “Two times Vince had talked to me, but I knew he only wanted to bring me in as a mechanic. This time he was at least pitching me a gimmick. It was a bad gimmick, but it was a foot in the door.” — Steve Austin ([03:03])

• On being a finish guy:

  “You gotta show me that you're twisting it, you know, that's the whole thing—the facial expression is so important.” — Pat Patterson ([18:48])

• On the Cow Palace:

  “I'm lucky to be alive … There was riots many times.” — Pat Patterson ([39:13])

• On psychology vs. moves:

  “He didn't care about your moves. He cared if it meant something.” — Steve Austin, paraphrasing Roy Shire ([60:22])

• On the importance of selling:

  “He tells a story. … He sells. Shawn would crawl and bang. You know what I mean? Dolph [Ziggler] is the same way. He tells a story.” — Pat Patterson ([59:54])

• On leading a match:

  “I just couldn't let a guy... Are you going to do something? … No, I'm going to lead the match. I'll tell you what to do.” — Pat Patterson ([23:21])

• On the Royal Rumble:

  “Tell him your stupid idea … First of all, it’s not a stupid idea. I gave him the idea … and [Dick Ebersol] loved it.” — Pat Patterson ([47:27])

• On coming out:

  “It felt good to finally say it. … I couldn't live my life the way I wanted to.” — Pat Patterson ([82:54], [84:31])

• On mentoring and acceptance:

  “You rose to the top in every promotion that you went to because your passion for the business, your talent, your mind, your persona … You were always accepted.” — Steve Austin ([87:01]–[87:44])

• On life perspective:

  “You always made chicken salad out of chicken shit.” — Steve Austin ([88:13])

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STRUCTURE & FLOW HIGHLIGHTS

1. Patterson’s origins: Poverty, French Canadian roots, attraction to performing, and entry to wrestling.
2. Territory years: Boston, Portland, learning psychology, importance of selling and heat.
3. Breakthroughs and partnerships: San Francisco stardom, Stevens partnership, Cow Palace riots, creative growth as a finish man.
4. Career evolution with WWE: Booking, the Royal Rumble, behind-the-scenes mentorship, and cultural changes from Vince Sr. to Vince Jr.
5. Personal milestones: Hidden relationship with Louie, closeted years, eventual public coming out.
6. Legacy: Patterson’s advice, reflections on impact, writing the memoir, and closing mutual respect between Austin and Patterson.

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RECOMMENDED SEGMENTS (WITH TIMESTAMPS)

• “The ringmaster era & breaking in with Vince” ([03:01]–[04:23])
• “Poverty and wrestling’s appeal as an escape” ([06:30]–[10:22])
• “Learning to lead a match” ([22:29]–[23:21])
• “Selling, psychology, and the evolution of wrestling workrate” ([59:53]–[61:55])
• “The Royal Rumble’s origin” ([46:51]–[48:05])
• “Coming out on Legends House and its meaning” ([82:54]–[86:16])

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TONE & CLOSING REFLECTION

The episode is equal parts storytelling and wrestling wisdom, delivered with affection and humor. Austin and Patterson reminisce as collaborators and friends, respecting one another’s legacies. There’s honest discussion of hardships—in the locker room, from promoters, in personal life—and how resilience, ingenuity, and the desire to entertain carried Patterson to the top. The conversation closes on the theme of acceptance, both in wrestling and life.

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SUMMARY

This is a must-listen for wrestling fans: it's a fascinating oral history, packed with laughs, behind-the-scenes tales, deep dives on wrestling psychology, the birth of the Royal Rumble, and the heart of a man who helped shape modern WWE—both by his in-ring work and his courageous life outside it.

Transcript

[Pat Patterson]

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[Steve Austin]

Does anyone even start?

[Pat Patterson]

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[Steve Austin]

Podcast one.com production he started in a small town in Texas, worked his ass off to become one of the most famous wrestlers of all time. We're gonna take care of business tonight. And that's the bottom line. And now he's dominating of On Demand Audio, and he's doing it for the working man. This is a damn good outlet for me to spew the off my brain. This is the Steve Austin Show. Unleash. All right, man. I'm sitting here with Pat Patterson. Pat, welcome to the show. How long have I known you?

[Pat Patterson]

Oh, well, when you first came to New York, 95.

[Steve Austin]

Then, I guess.

[Pat Patterson]

95.

[Steve Austin]

And you started in what year in the business? Yes.

[Pat Patterson]

1958.

[Steve Austin]

1958. I've always known you just as Pat Patterson, the guy who was the agent and helped guys with their finish. And here's the thing, as you know, because you've been around for so many years in so many different territories in New York specifically. Guy comes in with the different agents. You know, I was kind of a Blackjack Lanza guy.

[Pat Patterson]

Exactly. I was gonna say that, yeah.

[Steve Austin]

He was a guy that kind of handled, you know, my matches in the book. We're sitting there talking about Pat's new book. It's called Accepted. I read this thing from COVID to cover and shit. Let me just backtrack, Pat. The book is mesmerizing. You live such a hell of a fun life. I mean, it had its ups and downs, you know, high spots and your low spots, but it's a very fun book to read. And I thought what we tried to do in our conversation, given the short prep time I had for it, I could sit there and go chapter by chapter and take you through the book, but that would be giving the book away. So I just kind of wanted to pick your brain, shoot the shit, and just talk about the business. And coming up.

[Pat Patterson]

Well, I'll tell you what, when you first came here, I remember that. I remember it was somewhere in San Diego or in LA somewhere, and you were not Stone Cold.

[Steve Austin]

You were the ringmaster.

[Pat Patterson]

The ringmaster. And you went out of your mind. And I remember you were screaming at somebody and all that. I said, I don't know what's going to happen. You hated that fucking name, did you?

[Steve Austin]

Dude, they called me up. Vince called me and I was in Atlanta. I just got let go and I had a busted arm. And, you know, I've been working for ecw. Thank. Thankfully Paul Heyman called me and I got a chance to learn how to do a promo or start the learning process. So, no, when Vince pitched me the ringmaster, I'm thinking to myself, this is the dumbest shit in the world. But it's my foot in the door, because. Because, Pat, we'll go over this in the conversation. Two times Vince had talked to me, but I knew he only wanted to bring me in as a mechanic. This time he was at least pitching me a gimmick. It was a bad gimmick, but it was a foot in the door. And the promoter wanted me. It wasn't me wanting to go because I had to, which was the case. But as you know, you just don't want to have to make that phone call these days. So, no, I didn't like that gimmick at all because it wasn't going nowhere.

[Pat Patterson]

Now it's not you.

[Steve Austin]

And with all due respect to Ted DiBiase, who was my manager, and I got on YouTube and I watched an old match with you working with Ted. Tremendous.

[Pat Patterson]

Yeah, I loved it.

[Steve Austin]

You know, as good as Ted was, I just learned to start talking. So he was. He was a hindrance. And I say that with respect because he's one of the greatest workers that I ever saw.

[Pat Patterson]

I see.

[Steve Austin]

But there's. That was a dead end. But my point is, so, you know, the whole time that I was here in wwe, in my career, you helped me out many, many times. But you were. I wasn't in your clique. You were Rock's guy. You were everybody's guy. Focus on your different main guys.

[Pat Patterson]

I remember a few times with you, you know, and first of all, talk about Stone Cold Steve Austin. You had a character that was strong as it could be, and you were a pro. And I remember a lot of times when you were in the card, you were watching backstage, you were watching the matches. You want to see who's doing what, you know, because you don't want to do the same thing. And occasionally, sometime when you knew what you had to do for the match and you would say, pat, what kind of fucking shit is this? God damn it, Steve, calm down. Maybe we can come up with something else. Yeah, they better, you know what I mean? A few times. Well, we will come up with something, you know, so this way it's easier and come back. What if we do it this way or that way? Well, damn, that sounds much better, you know what I mean? And after that, you were easy to play with, you know, but we all had the world that way. We have a new character and something is not working, you know what I mean? And then somebody says, what about this way? Oh, okay, you know.

[Steve Austin]

But did you get the sense that I had a bad attitude?

[Pat Patterson]

No, no.

[Steve Austin]

Because sometimes when I hear dealings of myself, I was a little ornery, but I mean, I was so hungry, I'd been fucked around for seven and a half years.

[Pat Patterson]

You were paranoid about a chip on my shoulder. Yeah, you were paranoid about that. Then all of a sudden you hear something and you get really upset. Did anybody else go to you, says, well, you know, calm down, calm down. I'm going to go have sandwich the catering and about an hour from now we'll sit down and talk. You know, sometimes guys get mad and they don't want to do this. Okay, give me some ideas. I love that, I love that. Shawn, Michael, these guys. I just love to help somebody that. Because we all get stuck, we all need to produce.

[Steve Austin]

That's what you say over and over in a book. And let's go back to when you were a kid growing up in Montreal and dude, there was 11 family members in your house. Was it a condo or an apartment?

[Pat Patterson]

It was an apartment.

[Steve Austin]

It was an apartment with two bedrooms, two bedrooms, 11 people and no running water.

[Pat Patterson]

Running water with just cold water. No hot water.

[Steve Austin]

Cold water, because you had to heat it up in the kitchen on the stove. Yeah, but then y' all would have the bath houses down the street.

[Pat Patterson]

Yeah, but in the house, a two bedroom, one kitchen, but there was one toilet, no bathroom, no shower. You had to wait a line to go to the bathroom.

[Steve Austin]

And then when you took a shower, your mom would give you a sliver of soap and you go down to the public bathhouse and then she would ask you for the sliver of soap when you got back.

[Pat Patterson]

Oh, yeah, you have to.

[Steve Austin]

So nothing was ever handed to you?

[Pat Patterson]

No, no.

[Steve Austin]

Pat, as a kid and reading a book, you're always looking for an audience. Yes, why was that?

[Pat Patterson]

I mean, I don't know, you know, One of my brothers, he was about two years younger than me. And he was good at playing hockey. It wasn't me. I don't know what it is. When I was a kid, I was an altar boy. And I'm with the priest, you know, There's a big wedding, you know. Then I'm with the priest. I'm dressed like him. I gave him the ensign or whatever. I'm in front of the people, you know, I like that, you know. And then later on, I watched the Ice Capade, you know. God damn, I like that. And in my neighborhood, every kid play hockey, right? I got a pair of figure skates, and I'm skating with the girls like this, hey, you faggot. You know, because I had those kind of skates, they didn't know what it was, but I'm doing, you know. And I went for an audition. When they came to Montreal, my father said, you're not going anywhere. I was too young anyway.

[Steve Austin]

Circus.

[Pat Patterson]

There was a circus outdoors, you know. And I would hang around, try to go on the trapeze and everything else. I would have left with a circus. Anything. I don't know what it is. I went up to perform in front of people. Don't ask me why. I don't know.

[Steve Austin]

In the book, you wish you would have had the guts at that time to do it. You didn't. You waited around. And just by chance, with as many family members as y' all had, I don't know what it was. Because you're Catholic, right?

[Pat Patterson]

Yep.

[Steve Austin]

So I guess y' all started eating just bread on one day of the week. Or was it on Lent? One occasion? Because this leads to you going and seeing your first professional wrestling match. Tell that story. Because there was a free ticket and a loaf of bread.

[Pat Patterson]

Oh, yeah, a loaf of bread. My mother would buy two or three loaf of bread. But once in a while there was a ticket on the. And you get a free ticket to go to the wrestling matches. I went there and I went crazy. It was not a big, big place now. It was a small place, maybe five, 600 people. I was going crazy. And I hated that villain. You have no idea. And I'm standing up. Beat the shit out of him. Come on. I was going crazy. I got hooked. And then I found out later on in school, there was a kid, and his father was a promoter. He was my age. So I talked to him, I said, you're going to come to the gym, that I go, there's a place there was a ring, and I want to train you a little bit, you know. He said, no, my dad doesn't want us to wrestle at all. Don't worry about your dad. So I took him to the gym a few times. Then I went to his house and I talked to his dad. I said, you know, your son, he's pretty good in the ring. What do you mean? And so we've been training. He says, don't you talk to my son, but don't even train my son. Holy shit. And he was good, you know. So I didn't say a word. About a month later, I says, sir, why don't you give us a chance one time in the preliminary match? I'll think about it. So one day he did put us in the little town first match. My God, he was so happy. And then I was in then. And all the old timers, kid, you could ride with me, you know. And that's how I got involved in the wrestling in Montreal.

[Steve Austin]

At that first match, you went to though off the ticket from a loaf of bread, you got a chance to see Buddy Rogers. And you said when he walked, his entrance captivated you. And then his ring performance, like, you said, you were going banana.

[Pat Patterson]

Oh, yeah.

[Steve Austin]

What was it about that guy Buddy Rogers, which was so magnetic because he's one of the greatest stars in the history of the business. You would go on to become friends with him and wrestle him on many occasions.

[Pat Patterson]

Yeah, it's amazing. It's amazing, buddy. Roger, when I first saw him in Montreal, and he just walked, and he had that walk, and he looked like a star. He looked like somebody, you know what I mean? Now, about a month or two later in Montreal, I have no money to get intendance the building, but these guys would park their car. Barry Rogers got the suitcase, and he's walking across the street. Me carry suitcase. All right, kid. I walk in with them. I'm in Kowalski, same thing. I get the suitcase because I didn't have money to get in. Then many years later, I'm interviewing Buddy Rogers. I'm in Japan with Kowalski. It's gone a long way, you know what I mean?

[Steve Austin]

But it was tough. When you're talking about carrying that suitcase, when you say, me carry suitcases because you only spoke French. Yeah. Your English was the shit.

[Pat Patterson]

That's right. I tried me suitcase. What the. They don't know.

[Steve Austin]

So your first lessons because the promoter was Silvio Sampson, correct?

[Pat Patterson]

Yeah.

[Steve Austin]

And so you find someone to teach you a little bit. But yeah, you end up basically, they're stretching you more than they're teaching you.

[Pat Patterson]

Oh, my God. Yeah.

[Steve Austin]

Was it the same that? Years and years just to try to weed you out or not smart you up.

[Pat Patterson]

Well, being a preliminary match kid, you want, they'd bring me in the ring somewhere. You wanna. You wanna learn? Okay, I'd go and they stretched to hell, trying to get out of there, blowing up, you know what I mean? But I kept coming back. I kept coming back.

[Steve Austin]

The. In the first few wrestling matches you had. And like you said, you guys were hitting it off. The father, the promoter was impressed. Yeah, but one of the things that kept happening, a lot of your paychecks were bouncing. And so your father, who you never really had the greatest relationship.

[Pat Patterson]

Well, you really did read my book, did you?

[Steve Austin]

I read it from COVID to cover. We're gonna start freelancing here in a minute, but I want to set the tone, because the biggest thing with you is you're one of the greatest minds in the history of the business. And especially as it pertains to the finishing sequences and stuff like that. So I just wanted to get to how you.

[Pat Patterson]

That's a big compliment coming from you, I'll tell you that.

[Steve Austin]

That's a true story. You know, it is, but. So your dad, you know, the paychecks are bouncing, and your dad doesn't want you to be a professional wrestler. He says, get a real job. What was it about the 9 to 5 grind? With all due respect to everybody that's working 9 to 5, listening to, podcast, you know, me, myself, when I got out of college and started doing this in 89, this was a job for me. When I took a test pat in high school, it kind of points you in the right direction where you fill in the little circles. It said I would make a good park ranger. I didn't want to be a park ranger. I want to be a professional wrestler. So what was about the 9 to 5 or just a regular job that was so abrasive to you?

[Pat Patterson]

I work in the factory where they make ice skate and shoes, and they put that on the thing and then I might have to put them in the box. And they had all day in, day out, day in and day out. What the hell? I'm not going to do that in the factory. I got fired, so I had to get another job at the cookie factory. Huge place. I lasted three weeks. I told her to go to hell, and that was it. My mom and dad screamed, you can't keep a job, for Christ's sake. You know? Then I tried a Big factory behind our house, cigarette factory. It's huge. And if you get a job there, you're there for 40 years and you're all set. You know how many times I made an appointment there? At least 50 times. And the girls go, sir, you came here last week. No, I said, I know, and I'm glad they didn't take me. I'd still be there.

[Steve Austin]

Probably it wasn't for you.

[Pat Patterson]

No.

[Steve Austin]

Growing up in the book, you really admired Killer Kowalski. I guess he wore purple trumps. You would wear the same when you started.

[Pat Patterson]

Read the book, Steve.

[Steve Austin]

Don't around. Pat, what was it about Killer Kowalski that said that he was just your hero?

[Pat Patterson]

He was vicious. I mean, he was mean.

[Steve Austin]

Thank you.

[Pat Patterson]

He was mean. And he had the purple boots, purple tights and purple jacket. I had some made for me, man, that was like a young Kowalski. And it's a funny time. The first time he saw me wrestle, I was in Boston. And the promoter in Boston brought in Kowalski and a couple of guys, top guys. Oh, my God, I'm in the same car as Kowalski now. I was in the locker room. I was afraid to put my boots on because I got the same thing. Maybe he's going, give you shit. What the hell is that?

[Steve Austin]

Get stealing my gimmick.

[Pat Patterson]

I know. In fact, the promoter says to Kowalski, he says, I was in the first match. I said, kowalski's gonna watch you. I was a nervous wreck. I put him in the red mask. Bing, bing, bing. About 10, 12 minutes. And I came backstage. He said, did a good job, kid. Oh, God, I was in heaven. I was in heaven. And then later on in years, I was in Australia with him and I was in Japan and I. I tortured him. You know why?

[Steve Austin]

Why?

[Pat Patterson]

Because he has a hard time. He's a vegetarian. He has a hard time eating. And I would order food for him. That was not good. I said, they brought you this. I don't want that.

[Steve Austin]

Another rib you pulled on him. When he would go to the bathroom, you would put chicken in his rice and do stuff like that. And he'd have to reorder again. You were terrible. You're one of the biggest rivers in the history of the business. That's one of the things. I have this book here and because look at all the dog eared pages, Pat. Those are ribs and funny stories. My book is torn up because there's so many ribs of you.

[Pat Patterson]

We'll get to that.

[Steve Austin]

Yeah, we'll get to it.

[Pat Patterson]

Hey, it's Adam Caroll from the adam Krolla show.

[Steve Austin]

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[Pat Patterson]

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[Steve Austin]

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[Pat Patterson]

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[Steve Austin]

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[Pat Patterson]

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[Steve Austin]

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[Pat Patterson]

Betonline, the game starts here.

[Steve Austin]

One of the things I like about the book is how you wrote it. Because anybody that's ever spent any time with Pat, if you know him, the book is just like he's telling you the stories. He'll start getting ahead of himself. He'll go back. But wait, we'll get to that in a minute. We're still here. That's how the book is.

[Pat Patterson]

I'm relaxed. I'm having a blast. Now.

[Steve Austin]

I'm going to tell you something, but this is. Man, other than having drinks at a bar, being in a finish room, I mean, we just. We never really got to just hang out and shoot the shit. Because, man, you're. You live where you do. I live where I'm at. We're. We're both busy, but our common thread was the business. I want to go to Killer Kowalski because you said. Because he was so goddamn mean. So let's segue here. One of my biggest things these days, because I want someone to learn something in the business, to learn something about the business. A heel.

[Pat Patterson]

You.

[Steve Austin]

I watched many of your matches. You had a mean streak. Many heels. And I got a chance through your book. I always remember Lord Alfred Hayes from doing commentary on wwf. I didn't know that that guy even worked. So I got on YouTube and he was a nasty, vicious heel. And he made you mad because he cheated. And then when it came time to get heat on you, he was a mean prick.

[Pat Patterson]

Yeah.

[Steve Austin]

Explain the importance of a mean streak bat. Because to me it's so simple.

[Pat Patterson]

Me, as far as being mean. Yes.

[Steve Austin]

You don't just go through the motions. It's with.

[Pat Patterson]

No, you gotta.

[Steve Austin]

You take pleasure or it's a passion to fucking.

[Pat Patterson]

Exactly. When you throw a punch, your facial expression, you mean it. You just don't do it for fun.

[Steve Austin]

Right.

[Pat Patterson]

When you grab that leg and you twist it. Yeah. I mean, you got to show me that It's. I'm twisting that, you know, that's the whole thing. The facial expression is so important.

[Steve Austin]

So you're working with Sivio Sampson in Montreal. How long were you there before you would end up going down to Tony Santos in Boston?

[Pat Patterson]

Right? I was in Montreal. I wrestled with the kids a little bit, and then from there I had a chance to go, but the promoter from Boston would come in sometime to Montreal, and he's looking for talent, you know. So I go to him, I said, you, promoter, you, me go Boston. He goes, yeah, yeah, yeah. He gives me his card like he's trying to tell me to get out, you know what I mean? But I kept that card. And about five, six months later, that's when my dad threw me out of the house. And my sister, she gave me 20 bucks. In those days, it was a lot of money. I took a Greyhound bus and went to Boston. You got to go through immigration. I had nothing in those days. I guess you didn't need a passport. I said, me, go to Boston wrestle? No, no, no, no, no. I was at the border six to seven hours with the business card. They kept calling the promoter. Finally the promoter answered, well, you got a kid here that is wrestling for you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I went to Boston, and I went to Boston that way.

[Steve Austin]

And you'd already started your wrestling career as Pat Patterson, because as a shoot, you are Pierre Clermont.

[Pat Patterson]

Yeah.

[Steve Austin]

So you're already Pat Patterson, and they're waiting for you over in Boston.

[Pat Patterson]

I changed my name in Montreal.

[Steve Austin]

Okay.

[Pat Patterson]

Oh, yeah. Pierre Clairmont. Can you imagine a name of champion to start? Pierre Clairmont. Give me a break.

[Steve Austin]

He didn't really have a really gennar sais quoi to it, if I will. Tell me how you came up with the Pat Patterson? Because in the book.

[Pat Patterson]

Okay, you know what? There was two local guys, they were lumberjack. One was. What's his name? Paul Smith. And the other one was Pat Smith. Two lumberjack. And I like the name Pat Smith. You know, I like the name Pat. So I take a dictionary. In the back page of the dictionary, they have the P. What do you call it? P, A T. Now surname. The first. What is it, a surname surname? Yeah. So, Patrick, I liked Pat. So now I didn't know what to call the last one. Said, I took the dictionary and I closed my eyes and I opened. The first name I saw was Patterson. Pat Patterson. That was it.

[Steve Austin]

Got a ring to it.

[Pat Patterson]

Yep, that's been my name for years.

[Steve Austin]

What changed when you went to Boston because you were in Boston, what, two years?

[Pat Patterson]

About two years. And you know, I learned to wrestle, to travel all these little towns with different guys. They were the old timers. They liked to play with you and trying to stretch you, but after a while, they liked to work with you. I'm not kid. You're taking good bumps, you know? Right. You know what I mean? They help you, you know? And I was there for two years. I had a blast. Oh, my God. I was young. I didn't know. I didn't make any money. I was living in an apartment at $10 a week.

[Steve Austin]

So at this point in your life, later on, we're going to get to this. You always felt comfortable when you really started understanding the business. Whether you work in heel or babyface, you always preferred to lead the match. But I'm imagining when you get to Boston and while you're still in Montreal, or if you're working with Sampson's kid, maybe you were calling a match, but I'm imagining you're still following at this point. Correct. And learning.

[Pat Patterson]

Oh, yeah. But I learned from them. They were telling me what to do, but eventually, and I said, wait a minute. When it's my time, I'm going to teach these guys what to do. I came to that level where they started believing in me, you know what I mean? In those days, I just wanted to lead. And some of these guys are just looking at you. Come on. You know, it just felt that way. I bet you're the same way, too.

[Steve Austin]

Oh, well, because I don't hear very good. I was kind of legendary, you know? I'll never forget working with Lawlor in Memphis. He was a guy that liked to start talking before you even locked up. So he'd be trying to call the first spot and I'd be going, what? Well, the crowd would call a high spot out to me. So it was ridiculous. I just. Whether I was working. Healer, baby, once I got a hold of it, that's when I just started liking to lead the match. And that's what I felt comfortable with.

[Pat Patterson]

It's funny about leading a match, you know? And that's one thing I had to do. Come on. I just. I couldn't let a guy. Go ahead, Go ahead. You lead. Are you going to do something? You going to kick my ass or what? Do something. You know, I'm waiting for something. No, I'm going to lead the match. I'll tell you what to do. Rocket Johnson, I've worked with him so many times, man, I used to give him shit every night in the Ring, you lazy bastard. Get your fucking ass up. Come on. You know what I mean? Let's scream at him, because if we have a bad match because of him, it's his fault. I don't want to have a bad match.

[Steve Austin]

Right. Going back to those formative years, man, Pat, I can't imagine there was a lot of high spots. It was a lot of holes, working for holes, healing and then one or two spots, but it wasn't a spot fest yet.

[Pat Patterson]

You're right. Yeah. Put a hole and make the guys suffer. Make him tap out. Years ago, not too many guys would tap out. They didn't want to tap out. You know what? Get pinned, it's okay.

[Steve Austin]

But going back to that day, just the fact of two guys grappling just was an attraction in and of itself. Because, you know, it was still that time. I mean, of course, wrestling had been around in the States for. Since, you know, before the TV was around. And then all of a sudden, television comes out. It's a natural for tv. But in that day, that style just captivated people.

[Pat Patterson]

Oh, yeah.

[Steve Austin]

Two combatants trying to wrestle for a win or for a championship belt.

[Pat Patterson]

Right.

[Steve Austin]

And so all these years later, the business has evolved so much.

[Pat Patterson]

Yeah.

[Steve Austin]

And you're right.

[Pat Patterson]

Years ago, you grab a hold. He could have a hold of the wrestler for 20 minutes. You can't get out of there. And when he does, look out. You're right. Right. It's true.

[Steve Austin]

But today, you grab a hold for 20 minutes.

[Pat Patterson]

Yeah, boring.

[Steve Austin]

Hey, in Boston, you're out on a town and you meet Louie.

[Pat Patterson]

Yeah.

[Steve Austin]

Your life partner.

[Pat Patterson]

Yeah.

[Steve Austin]

For 40 years.

[Pat Patterson]

Yeah.

[Steve Austin]

And then so you guys become an item. And this is back in the day when the business was protected. And so y' all protected the business.

[Pat Patterson]

Yeah.

[Steve Austin]

But you protected your relationship.

[Pat Patterson]

Yeah. Louis, you know, it's a long story in a way, because I met him in Boston, and I would see him on weekends because he lived outside of Boston. He had a motorcycle. He'd come and spend the weekend with me and go, you know, he's a good friend, you know. But then in the meantime, Mad Dog is in Oregon. He's a star in Oregon. And I don't know how he got. Still don't know today how he got my address in Boston. He sends me a letter. Your book in two weeks in Oregon. You better be here. Mad Dog wants me to go to Oregon. I had no idea where Oregon is. Then I go to the promoter in Boston. I tell him I want to go to Oregon. He takes a map. I've never seen him back that big. It's like you're going from coast to coast. To me, it was like going around the world, and he says, you could starve to death. That scared me. I didn't go. About three weeks later, I got another letter from my dog. You better get your fucking ass over here. On my God. Now I have to go. I borrowed money from Louie, flew to Portland, got a little apartment. I stayed in a hotel. Mad Dog was there. So about a couple of weeks later, I miss my friend Louie, and Louie flies in.

[Steve Austin]

But you were just thinking, hey, man, when you said goodbye to Louie, you know, you were just going to do your. And he was going to go do his thing. That's Pat Patterson's phone going off. Anytime someone's phone's going off, they owe me a beer and you a beer. So Pat Patterson owes you around. I'm sorry, there's a lot of noise. We're right here at the Staples Center. Pat doesn't know how to work his iPhone. This is classic clusterfuck material here on the Steve Austin Show. But you didn't figure. You didn't figure. You just figured it was over, you'd never see him again.

[Pat Patterson]

No, I never thought I would see him again. But God damn it, after a while, I'm all alone, you know, I'm in the hotel room, you know, and somebody would. One of the boys would pick me up and all that stuff, you know, And I asked him to come to Portland. He quit his job, he left his family, everything. I mean, he had a good job in that little, fact, little town there. So we're sitting in the lobby of the hotel. I'll never forget that on a Sunday night. Who comes walking in? Mad Dog. My friend Louis, when he saw Mad Dog. Because he heard of Mad Dog before. Mad Dog comes walking in, and he's drunk, and Louis sees Mad Doggy. He runs out the door. You brought your boyfriend with you, did you? I says, well, he's my friend. Where did he go? I said, maurice, I don't know. He got scared. Well, we'll go find him. I said, oh, my God. Get in the car. We're driving all the way downtown Portland from one street to the other, and he's going, where the hell is he? Where the hell is he? I said, dog, I don't know. Turn here, turn there. Then he sees him on the sidewalk. He pulls the window down, says, get in the car. Louie keeps running. He steps on the gas and gets on the sidewalk, blocks him. Get in the car. He gets in the Car. We're gonna go to the bar and talk. I figure he's gonna prepare to kill both of us. We were scared to death. We were sitting. He's talking with Louis more than me. And they never shut up. Talking became the best friend.

[Steve Austin]

And they become very good friends. But. And this would end up being the case because Louie would. Your wrestling always came first. And he would end up following you to all of the territories. And everybody that he met just loved Louie.

[Pat Patterson]

Yep.

[Steve Austin]

And so he was just a natural charismatic guy and just a great person. So everybody loved him.

[Pat Patterson]

Yeah, because he's my friend. He was better than me, for Christ's sake.

[Steve Austin]

But he was a cool guy. He was just in.

[Pat Patterson]

But anyway, about Mad Dog.

[Steve Austin]

Yeah, but tell me about how. How over Mad Dog Vachon was. Because I've always heard the stories and I didn't get a chance to see a whole lot of his work, but I just knew that he was very feared and had a ton of heat.

[Pat Patterson]

Oh, what. Unbelievable. But he was. When you watch him work and he's beating the shit out of you, you know he is. Right. You know, it's like the facial expression and I mean, God, he was. Was unbelievable. And. And you know what? When I went to Oregon, he wrestled a guy by the name of. What's his name? Oh, not Thomas, anyway. A black wrestler. He was very good. And I'll never forget it. In Seattle, he had a one hour match. I've never seen that before. A one hour match. Luther Lindsay Mad Dogg versus Luther Lindsey. A one hour match. I didn't know the match was gonna last an hour. I could not believe at the end of the match, people were going insane. I've never seen that. I couldn't believe it. First time you see an hour a match together, Right?

[Steve Austin]

Right.

[Pat Patterson]

God, you should have seen that match. These guys that were both wrestlers, they wrestled, you know, and that Dog sometimes would go crazy and they'd come back into the wrestling. It was unbelievable.

[Steve Austin]

So why did you consider. Because Don Owens was running Portland, and so he was a promoter. And you started in Montreal, went to Boston, but you consider Portland to really be where you kind of started feeling your own. Feeling your own. You had television exposure. You were getting over. At what year was this in the business? Why were you. Who was teaching you? What was clicking with you? Was it the reps? Was it the time in the ring?

[Pat Patterson]

The guys I worked with, you know, and some of the old timers. And I took a lot of bumps from there and everything else. And I've learned all that. But some guys in Portland's a nice little territory. For example, Mick Bockwinkle was there at one time. Pepper Martin was a good worker. And he was there all these guys that I didn't know, you know what I mean? And Pepper Martin goes to a promoter one night, he says, let me work a program with the kid. God damn it. He's good. So Pepper Martin was a top baby face. We couldn't wait to work with each other. First match we had, it stunk. He's talking to me in the ring. I can't do that. I'm talking to him. He does not listen to me. Pepper, next time, let me lead the match. And after that, we became the best of friends. He was so good.

[Steve Austin]

Tell me the story about Nick Kozak. Because in your book you said this guy could sell his ass.

[Pat Patterson]

Oh, my God.

[Steve Austin]

He taught you a different level of work because this dude would sell, sell, sell. And because he was so great at selling that people would go crazy when he made his comeback.

[Pat Patterson]

You know what?

[Steve Austin]

That was an eye opener for you at the time in your life.

[Pat Patterson]

Exactly. Put a reverse headlock on him and you hold on to it and you know, he's trying, he's trying. It's drying. He's almost got it. He's had to pull the hair. My God, they go crazy. He pulled the hair. Hey. Sometime for 15 minutes. And he would fight it and fight it back down. I said, you gotta get out. Don't worry. Stay there, stay there. You know, then when he came out, man. Oh, Jesus. That was that easy.

[Steve Austin]

Hi, I'm Jesse Perry. And I'm Andy Cassette. Welcome to Love Murder, where we unravel the darkest tales of romance turned deadly. Our episodes are long form, narrative driven and deeply researched. Perfect for the true crime aficionados seeking stories beyond the headlines. Like the chilling case of Blanche Taylor Moore, the so called black widow who left a trail of poisoned lovers. Or the shocking murders of Chad Shelton and Dwayne Johnson, where family ties masked a sinister plot. Subscribe to Love Murder on Apple podcasts, Spotify or wherever you listen. So you were in Portland, what, about 18 months?

[Pat Patterson]

A couple of years.

[Steve Austin]

Yeah, a couple of years. And then you go to San Francisco to work for Roy Scheyer and Big time wrestling and 65. So I got to hear about Roy Scheyer because I heard that he was just a cantankerous guy. He watched every single match at every single show and he was always yelling, is this true? Please explain to me about this rush hour.

[Pat Patterson]

Yes, sir.

[Steve Austin]

He didn't initially like you?

[Pat Patterson]

No, at first he didn't like me.

[Steve Austin]

That's what I'm saying.

[Pat Patterson]

Yeah, at first he did not like me at all.

[Steve Austin]

At all.

[Pat Patterson]

But you know the story that I told him before I got there, right?

[Steve Austin]

No.

[Pat Patterson]

Oh, you didn't know that? I was in Portland and in Portland Pepper Martin was used to work in in San Francisco a couple of years before that. Nick Bogwinkel has worked there before. So these guys are telling me it's a path. You ought to go to San Francisco and you and Ray Stevens would make a good team. I didn't even know Ray Stevens. I said, well, I don't know, maybe you should go there, you know. So I did the usual thing, sent pictures, you know, and then I called Roy Scheier about a week or two later And I says, Mr. Scheier, I says, I'd like to work for you and have a date, you know. Nick Bachwinkle told me it'd be good and Pepper Martin said, we make a good tag team. He says, the boys don't do what I. No, I do the that. I do the.

[Steve Austin]

I tell the boys what to do, they don't tell me.

[Pat Patterson]

Exactly right. You know, So I said, okay, no problem. So he gave me a date and I went to San Francisco my first night. I had a little apartment in San Francisco. So how are you going to go to Fresno? It's 200 miles from San Francisco to Fresno to do TV. So I ride with him in his pickup truck. Got a pickup truck, he's got a gun, you know, he got a big wrench. Anyway, so go to do tv. And after we're done tv, I get in the truck with him. I'm having a few beers. He goes, you better start working out, you look like shit. I said, holy Christ almighty. You know, I wasn't really into workout thing, you know. And he says, I heard some shit about you. I says, what did you hear? He said, well, you're different. I says, what do you mean different? He said, you're different. I says, well, I'll tell you. And I'm gay. He says, you dumb shit, you admit it. I says, roy, I'm going to work for you. You might as well fucking know. He said, you're stupid. I'm not. I'm just telling you, I'm honest with you. So now I got home, my friend Louis waiting for me. I says, I don't think we're going to be here too long. He told me about workout and he's telling me about being Gay. Jesus Christ. I was there 15 years.

[Steve Austin]

Yeah, I know. First of all, before we get to the back end, because this is when he would start helping you or dropping finishes on you or just discussing finishes with you. But before that, you finally ended up doing what you said you were going to do. You hooked up with Ray Stevens. Y' all turned into the Blonde Bombers. And if you go to the Wikipedia page, when you look up Cal palace, you know, about the middle of a thing. Also, that happened at the Cal Palace. Professional wrestling with Ray Stevens and Pat Patterson, among others, would sell out all the time. So tell me about Ray Stevens, because I didn't see enough of his work, but everybody swears by that guy.

[Pat Patterson]

I swear to God, this kid, this guy was always a 15 year old. No matter how old he was, he was 15 or 18 years old. He was a party guy and he was a fun guy. You know, if his wife asked him to go get a loaf of bread, he'd come back two days later with the bread. He was a party guy, I'm telling you. And in the ring, I'll tell you what, he was so good, he could have a match with his eyes closed. And then, we're a tag team. Now. I says, ray, what are you going to do? You want to start? He says, he just called it. Don't worry, I'll follow. You know, he just didn't worry about anything. He was loved by the boys. There's no question. The guys like to work with him. He was, he was fun to be with.

[Steve Austin]

But that's one of the things also just with your relationship with him. You guys are spending so much time together, no matter what it was. He goes, you would ask him, ray, what do you want to do? He goes, whatever you want to do.

[Pat Patterson]

Whatever you want. Yeah, yeah.

[Steve Austin]

So it was just easy, no problem.

[Pat Patterson]

And he's in the ring where we're working our ass up, he's laughing in the corner. You know what I mean?

[Steve Austin]

At that point in your career when you guys are starting to get white hot and he's over laughing in the corner. Had you learned that you can have a good time in the ring? Because for me, for my first five years, I was so dead serious, I didn't think it was like you were allowed to have fun in there. And when I was able to have fun, boy, that's when it really blew up.

[Pat Patterson]

Yeah, yeah. I learned that from Ray. Yeah, you're having fun working. It's unbelievable, the joke that you could do in the ring with the boys. You don't have no idea what we're doing. It's great. You know, we have fun.

[Steve Austin]

Hey, let's talk about the Cow Palace a little bit, because that building was built in, I think, 41, and it was the original home of what is now the Golden State Warriors. So give or take, that building was 25 years old when you get there. When I got there in the 90s, it was a cold, stark building from my memories and kind of wide open, and it was cold because they also played hockey there. So they'd have the cardboard sheets on top of the ice. It was awful sometimes when they set the ring in there. So it was a brutal place to work, but the fans were hardcore. Hardcore to the point. Back in the day, you guys would get so much heat that y' all were afraid for your fucking lives.

[Pat Patterson]

I'm lucky to be alive. How long from the dressing room to the middle of the ring? Oh, my God. And trying to get out of there. If you just cheated to win the championship, right? Forget it. Yeah, there was riots many times. I mean, many times. One time I thought I was gonna die. Really. It's crazy.

[Steve Austin]

You told.

[Pat Patterson]

And I'm wrestling Peter Mavilla. He's a God. I mean, he is a real God, you know? And that night I pulled a brass knock and I knock at him, Roy Shire. I said, I'm not gonna do that. If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen. And Jesus Christ. Boom. Peter is bleeding all over the place. Who do you think comes in the ring? All them Samoans of Sika killing me. He saved my life, Peter. He really did. I swear to God. These guys. And then afa, Now Sika was the one really crazy. Three, four weeks later, I'm wrestling in a return match. Sika is way up in the. As far as you can go because he was not allowed to come down there. I am beating the shit out of Peter. Me. Here he comes. And no one could stop him. It was dangerous. Jesus.

[Steve Austin]

What was it about in your book? You called two people wrestling geniuses. You call Roy Scheier and Eddie Graham down in Florida. Now, as you first started off in San Francisco, Roy didn't like you in the beginning, but then y' all had your meeting. He understood. He accepted you. That's the name of the book. You've always been accepted. And he knew that you would work your ass off and high integrity, go out there and do what you set out to do. So then in the later years, he would start asking you your opinion on finishes. And this Is one of the great finish guys in the history of the business. How did this help mold your model or your acumen when coming up with a finish? Because now you're getting one of the great minds and he's asking you.

[Pat Patterson]

I know it's like any. I don't know how you say that. Even whether if it's Vince McMahon and he's got to make a decision, we should do it this way. We should put that match there. You have to make decision. After a while, you do that day in and day out, you ask somebody their opinion. What do you think? You think we should have this match later or earlier? Should we have this match doing this way? Because after a while, you need to. It's no different than a wrestler. You know, he knows what he wants to do in the ring, but I'm not sure. Maybe I should ask somebody this way. You feel good instead of walking in there. Ah, God damn it.

[Steve Austin]

You know, but that's going back to taking it. Like you say many times in the book, wrestlers need to be produced. It is the grace of the great. They need feedback.

[Pat Patterson]

Yeah.

[Steve Austin]

And so sometimes, you know, they get such. Maybe so the old saying, they get so far, so far in the woods, they can't see the trees. So, you know, they need to be produced. Like, I could be stone cold. But sometimes, you know, maybe you would come up to me or oblige. I would say, hey, think about this. And I'd be like, okay, I'm straight ahead. And here comes this alternative. It's like, oh, that's a good idea. Let me broaden my horizon and open up my mind to being able to try that and experiment with that and grow. Because if you're not produced or don't have any feedback, how do you get better?

[Pat Patterson]

Yeah. And sometimes also, there's too many ideas at one time. Somebody said, well, I don't think you should do it this way. Then you bring it back to somebody. Yeah, I think we should do the other way. Now you get really confused. There's three, four guys tell you what to do. They're mixed up. And the same thing when I used to work with Vince at the office and being creative, you know, when it came down to the Royal Rumble, Vince said, forget about that, Pat. It's not going to work. I said, vince, it's got to work. All right. You don't want to do it. And I would bring it up, you know, and sometimes he said, okay, we'll think about it. You know, you can't do everything, and you need Help with somebody, you know, it's like, what was the one hour, one hour match with Bret Hart and Shawn Michael? He wasn't about to do that. No way. A one hour match on a pay per view. A lot of the guys can't work one hour. So. Vince, you got two kids that can tore the house down. Please, forget about it. You know, but eventually it came out. You know, probably sometimes it takes them a little while to digest. Well, let me think about that. You know, you can't have an answer for every question. Maybe you have an answer a little bit later. You have to be patient, you know? It's beautiful. I love it. You know, I like when somebody asks me for my opinion for an idea, you know, Even if it's just a little thing that looks bad, you know, it's the hardest thing. What the guys have is if you're a top guy and there's something that you do in the ring that doesn't look good. Who's going to tell you that? Not too many, but I like to do that. I've seen it many times. And John, you take a lump, you die. Die. You know? Really? Yeah. Okay. If you want to do it, fine.

[Steve Austin]

You know, there was someone in the book I think they were fixing to leave into another territory and I think it was your kicks in the turnbuckle that weren't looking so great. No, no. You were telling this to somebody else. It was Hogan.

[Pat Patterson]

Was it Hogan? Yeah.

[Steve Austin]

Yeah. You told. Maybe someone told you earlier in your.

[Pat Patterson]

Career, but I was, I was in Montreal. I was not in Montreal. I was in Florida and he was in Montreal. I think he was in Montreal and he was working with somebody. But anyway, I called him and he answered and I said, terry, you all set? Yeah, I'll be all right. I says, remember now, you don't have to go crazy. I says, just do what you do and do it well. That's all you have to do. You're Hogan. Okay, brother. Then apparently he put the phone down, he said, motherfucker. He said, that son of a bitch is great. You know what I mean? Just a little touch that he needed.

[Steve Austin]

You know, towards the end of your run in San Francisco, you were kind of. You weren't office, but you damn near were office. And working for Roy Shire.

[Pat Patterson]

Right.

[Steve Austin]

He couldn't make a battle roll one time.

[Pat Patterson]

Oh, he had a battle roll every year.

[Steve Austin]

Yeah.

[Pat Patterson]

Yeah.

[Steve Austin]

And maybe was. Was the Royal Rumble born from maybe because the way you invented it was different than Roy Shire's. But were the seeds planted in those Early Battle Royals working in big time.

[Pat Patterson]

Wrestling, they were just those days they were just a regular battle world. 20 guys, you're number two, number three, that's it. It was not one after the other. You all go in, ding, ding. It was just a battle world. But I always wanted some stories, some old timers that I heard, hokey. A battle world. Somebody came up with that somehow no one knew. I have no idea. Nobody knows who invented the batterwell.

[Steve Austin]

You're right, I don't either.

[Pat Patterson]

I don't know. So I kept saying I'd like to create a battle royal. When I came up with the idea, you know, one guy and two guy, you know, Vince, are you fucking crazy? Come on.

[Steve Austin]

You know he thought it was a shit.

[Pat Patterson]

He hated it.

[Steve Austin]

And then y' all go do the Saturday Night special or whatever it was.

[Pat Patterson]

Dick Ebersol.

[Steve Austin]

Dick Ebersol.

[Pat Patterson]

Yeah. And you know, because we have to give him the card. Hogan's going to sign a contract and you know, tag team championship match and there's. And Dick up Besson said, well, it's a good card. It's on USA Network, you know, network, But USA Network, it's not really all. Something is missing. And Vince says, why don't you tell him that stupid idea? And I gave him the concept. I didn't have a name.

[Steve Austin]

I know, but you said it. First of all, it's not stupid. I think it's great.

[Pat Patterson]

That's right.

[Steve Austin]

Dick Ebersol.

[Pat Patterson]

Listen, he loved it. Yeah. He said, pat, tell him your stupid idea. I said, first of all, it's not a stupid idea. I give him the idea how it's going to work. I didn't have a name for it. He says, oh my God, this is legal running. That sounded good. Yeah. Well, Vince says, ah, we'll think about it, you know, think about it. But we did it.

[Steve Austin]

Yeah. And it's funny because there was no name for the match. It needed something spectacular to call it. So like 50 people from the office or they submitted 50 ideas and yeah, Royal Rumble was one of them.

[Pat Patterson]

Exactly.

[Steve Austin]

And so it became known as the Royal Rumble.

[Pat Patterson]

Exactly.

[Steve Austin]

And turned into a pay per view event.

[Pat Patterson]

Yeah.

[Steve Austin]

Hi, I'm Jesse Perry. And I'm Andy Cassette. Welcome to Love Murder, where we unravel the darkest tales of romance turned deadly. Our episodes are long form, narrative driven and deeply researched. Perfect for the true crime aficionados seeking stories beyond the headlines. Like the chilling case of Blanche Taylor Moore, the so called black widow who left a trail of poisoned lovers. Or the shocking murders of Chad Shelton And Dwayne Johnson, where family ties masked a sinister plot. Subscribe to Love Murder on Apple, podcasts, Spotify or wherever you listen. So you end up finishing up with Roy Shire and it's time to go somewhere else. You went down to Florida. He worked for wrestling. Genius. Eddie Graham. Johnny Valentine, I think, had the book.

[Pat Patterson]

Yeah.

[Steve Austin]

You and Johnny weren't on the same page?

[Pat Patterson]

No, not at all.

[Steve Austin]

But what about Eddie? I always heard that this guy was a genius in the business. What made this guy so smart?

[Pat Patterson]

Well, he had the great psychology of the business, and he. A lot of these guys that work down there and they learned the business from Eddie, but Eddie was just like, really like the old school, you know what I mean? It was not like the Ha ha and everything else. It was just the old school, you know, just workahole and workahole, you know what I mean? It was not all the flying like we do today. He was very good. He had very good ideas. And I heard years ago, Roy Scheier, Eddie Graham. There was another promoter. They always talked to each other. Funk Dorie, Funk. Yeah, they always talk to each other, you know, get any ideas and blah, blah, you know what I mean? So in Florida. I had a blast there. Dusty road there. The Briscoes. Oh, I had a great time then.

[Steve Austin]

But you didn't stay there very long?

[Pat Patterson]

No, a couple of years. I was a booker for about six months. Not for me.

[Steve Austin]

No?

[Pat Patterson]

No.

[Steve Austin]

How did the first booking session go? What was the problem with it?

[Pat Patterson]

Well, there's a lot of local guys there, you know, the Briscoes and Maine, blah, blah. I was not the booker. I'm sorry, the assistant booker with Valentine. He was. I'm going to clean up house. I'm going to do this. And I'm tired of all these guys. I said myself, that's not going to work. It didn't, you know, because he wanted to change everything. And Valentine was a slow maybe, don't know, didn't work.

[Steve Austin]

But what about him as a heel in the ring?

[Pat Patterson]

He grabbed a hold of you, you just sit in it and wait till he gets off of it. That's it.

[Steve Austin]

Okay. So you're there for a while and then you put a phone call into Verne to work for the AWA in Minnesota.

[Pat Patterson]

That was Ray Ray trying to bring me up, right? Yeah.

[Steve Austin]

So how was Verne?

[Pat Patterson]

Well, you know how funny. I've worked in San Francisco for years, had a big name. Everything else, Verne Gagne says, well, you got blonde hair. I said, yeah. He says, well, we have two guys with blonde hair over here. You're going to have to have a different color. I said, well, I ain't going. I ain't changing my color. And a week later, he said, all right, you know. So now Ray knew I was coming, and I had a blast in Minneapolis. Louie was there, too.

[Steve Austin]

What was the style in the ring in awa, all the way up there in Minneapolis? Was it different than the places that you'd been from Montreal, Boston, Portland?

[Pat Patterson]

Basically the same. Now, wait a minute. In those days, Vern Gani, the bruiser, the Crusher, these were the guys, you know what I mean? And so there was a lot of wrestling, Lots of wrestling. They liked a lot of wrestling. Verne liked getting behind goes in the bank. There was not that many flying, you know, Right.

[Steve Austin]

In your career, I always think you took chances, you know, I mean, it was chance coming from Montreal down to Boston, and from Boston all the way across the globe, like the promoter told you. And then Bashon had written you a letter. He didn't go the first time, but you went the second time. And so you were always willing to take a gamble. You always willing to take a risk. You always will. You had to, and you did. But after your time in the awa, you requested a meeting with Vern Gagne, because as laid back as Ray Stevens was, you wanted to know what a promoter's plans for you were. Because you were thinking in here and you were thinking in the future. And so Vern tells you. He goes, I don't tell my secrets. And, you know, since Ray went with the flow, you needed to know. You.

[Pat Patterson]

You said, I don't tell my secret.

[Steve Austin]

Yep. And he said he wouldn't tell you. And you said, fine, I won't tell you my secrets.

[Pat Patterson]

That's right.

[Steve Austin]

But the secret was New York. You had a secret. Ace in the sleeve with Vince Sr. How did that transpire?

[Pat Patterson]

Great. Mike LaBelle was a promoter in Los Angeles, and they were friends and everything else. And Mike LaBelle calls me. He said, vince wants you in New York. I said, me going to New York? Give me a break, for Christ's sake. I never dreamed of that. And I knew that thing with Ray and I in Minneapolis, we had enough, you know what I mean? So I told Reese, I have a chance to go to New York. He said, go, God damn, go. I says, well, that's what I told Vern. You have any plans for us? I don't tell my plans. I said, I got plans, too, but I ain't going to tell you. Either. See, I got to know. I said, no, you tell me yours. And I told him, I said, I'm going to New York. That's it.

[Steve Austin]

So Vince's plan, Vince Sr's plan. He wanted you was it right out the gate. He wanted to work you4 back to back to back to back shots in Madison Square Garden with Bob Backlin, his champion.

[Pat Patterson]

Yeah, well, he brought me to work with Backlin, but back to back, I don't think he was sure. He didn't know. Oh, I mean, if the first one is no good, you ain't gonna go with the second one, Right? Because in New York, you gotta sell out or you gotta have a crowd. First match I worked with Backlin, it was like the old man, he was so happy. Then he'd go to another one, then go to another one. Then you have a four with Backlin.

[Steve Austin]

That's unheard of.

[Pat Patterson]

It was not. It was not a picnic. It was not a picnic.

[Steve Austin]

What are you saying, Pat? Here's the thing. What were you thinking? Because you're a creative guy and you like to, you know, you take bumps. You like to really get your baby face over. Bob's a farmer shooter.

[Pat Patterson]

Yeah.

[Steve Austin]

What was the chemistry in the ring? Did he understand what you wanted to do or your vision?

[Pat Patterson]

He was told, when I tell you do it, that's it. He had to listen to every word I say. I had it made because Vince says, isn't the bat, but he had the mentality of shooting. He was always afraid that somebody's going to double cross him. You wrestled with some big guys, you know what I mean? I swear to you, in a cage match, he swore that I was going to double cross him. I asked him, he was pulling on me. Guy, I'm over the cage, now he's pulling. I asked him, I said, are you fucking shooting with me or what? He says, well, I don't know. I thought you were trying to. Yeah.

[Steve Austin]

That's interesting to know that mindset. Just because I can understand back in those days, I mean, because fast forward a couple years. I mean, because the Montreal Screw job would happen. We'll get that in a minute. But I can see where that paranoia would come from. I know one guy left out. I'd like to take it back just to when I must have been Portland. I think you were working with the legendary Pat o', Connor, who was at the time the National Wrestling Alliance. I know you're a big idol, but when you guys. I mean, he was a big. You were a big fan of his, but when you guys went out there, the matches weren't so much. And because he was the legendary Pat o', Connor, you trepidatiously said, pat, may I have a conversation with you? And you won't get mad at me, right? Yes. And so you said, just, just. Do you mind if I lead the match? He goes, we'll tear the place down. Just let me do my thing.

[Pat Patterson]

Yeah.

[Steve Austin]

And let me think about it. He thought about it. And then you went out and tore the house.

[Pat Patterson]

Oh, my God. And I loved it. Yeah.

[Steve Austin]

So what was about Pedal Connor? Because I never got a chance to see a lot of film on that guy.

[Pat Patterson]

Right. He's, you know, bang. Bye, bye.

[Steve Austin]

Bang.

[Pat Patterson]

Roll around. Okay, kid, what are you gonna do now? God damn. But I see when I watched him work before, and I said, jesus, I'd like to work with him. And then. And after that match that we had, he was at the bar and he was a guy that. The tightest guy in the business, believe me. And I said, I'd like to buy you a beer. Okay. He says, no, no, I'll buy you the beer. Almost had a heart attack, for Christ's sake. Yeah, it was nice, you know.

[Steve Austin]

Hey, what was the deal with the. When they. In 79, when you were crowned the first intercontinental champion? Because I was at one time the intercontinental champion. I got dropped on my head defending that belt. And that belt, that original belt that was there for a while through a lot of badass hands, is in my safe. You were the first IC champion, but you were never in. Where was it? Rio. Where was it in? It was in. Yeah. Rio de Janeiro.

[Pat Patterson]

In Rio de Janeiro.

[Steve Austin]

Never in Rio de Janeiro. But you're the IT champion.

[Pat Patterson]

Don't ask me what date and what day.

[Steve Austin]

And you know, it's only fitting that that belt would start off with a hellacious. Because some of the best workers in the history of the business at times that IC belt was the belt to go see.

[Pat Patterson]

Because I never thought of it that way. You're right.

[Steve Austin]

Yeah. I mean, a lot of times, you know, the world champion was the world champion, but the workers were the ones carrying that IC strap. And I was just so coveted to me. And you were the first one.

[Pat Patterson]

Oh, God. Another thing that I gotta say, it's Sergeant Slaughter, the alley fight.

[Steve Austin]

Oh, dude. In 1981. We gotta talk about that.

[Pat Patterson]

That.

[Steve Austin]

I watched that match three times the other day.

[Pat Patterson]

Jesus, you're kidding. Was he selling or what?

[Steve Austin]

Oh, my God. But just the magic that happened on the turnbuckle. Oh, when he got. Gets the job done in action. Not on a mat while he's flying. Hits one and he's just busted wide open.

[Pat Patterson]

Oh my God. And he's falling down on one knee and he wants to fight. And he was so good.

[Steve Austin]

But both of you guys were selling in such epic fashion. And if that's the difference, I know you're here now today, and you still work with wwe, hands on. You file reports about what you see. You still talk to the Superstars, you talk to me. You took the Rock under your wing. You've mentored so many guys in the business. Now when you think path, are we selling too little now? Has the business gotten so fast that we can't slow down a little bit? Where are we?

[Pat Patterson]

Well, they're going too fast. Yeah, yeah. My opinion.

[Steve Austin]

Yeah, I think so too.

[Pat Patterson]

There's a certain style, you know, they ba bing, ba boom, ba ba. Okay, fine. But the top guys, they got slowed.

[Steve Austin]

Down for me and you know, that being said, I want to go. Go. What you got?

[Pat Patterson]

Okay, I was just like, well, go ahead, I'll get to that. And about selling.

[Steve Austin]

Yeah, well, I want to talk.

[Pat Patterson]

How did Shawn Michael get over. Yeah, telling. How did Bret Hart get over telling. And how is Dolph Ziggler telling? He wrestles a little bastard, right? He does. He wrestles. He's nothing. Yang, Yang, Yang, Yang. He saw. He sells Sean with crawling bang. You know what I mean? Dolph is the same way. He tells a story, but it goes.

[Steve Austin]

Back to the quote about Ray Shire. No matter how good you were in the ring, he didn't care about your moves. All that mattered was his psychology. He didn't care if you did something spectacular. He cared if it meant something. So Pat, a guy can go out there and do a bunch of whirligig flips and flops and eh. But if it doesn't mean anything, it is core essence. Then what are you doing? Yeah, was it to be effective? You know, are you just showing off so it has to mean something? So sometimes I think, and I'm not going to nitpick, turn this to a nitpicking session on today's business because I'm 51 and I've been out forever, you're 75 and you're working with these guys. So I'm not trying to offend anybody. But you know, when I look back at my moveset, it was very basic. Even the Rock's move set was very basic. But he's very athletic. But I mean he would sell like crazy. But it Wasn't about a big presence. Well, his presence was larger than life. But it wasn't like he was doing a million things. What he did and how he got over as a performer and people loved him, fueled their love for him. And when someone got heat on him, you remember the buildings, Are you kidding me? Rocky. Rocky. And the roof would blow off the place. But it's selling. What is your take? And I asked Ricky Morton this the other day on getting over one of his things was right place, right time.

[Pat Patterson]

Right place, right time. But you, I don't really believe that.

[Steve Austin]

Okay, what do you believe?

[Pat Patterson]

You're there. If it doesn't work, you go someplace else. But I think you go there and right. Wrong place, the right time. I think it just. Maybe you don't give it a chance, man. To me, I don't know. I'm just saying I worked at the promoter, and after six months, if I don't make any money, I just leave. I just. I can't say, wrong time, right place, I don't know.

[Steve Austin]

Well, I think. I think it's more of a thing where, if the circumstances are right, because I mean, you, with all the talent that you had through coming up, all the lessons that you learned in your peak at San Fran or when you went to New York, if you didn't have it all together and have some presence and charisma, but maybe that's what it is.

[Pat Patterson]

Then instead of saying wrong 10, wrong time, right, wrong place, maybe they didn't have it right. Seems you. Somebody has it but you.

[Steve Austin]

You. Yeah, you know what I'm talking. But you have to have it. You have to have it.

[Pat Patterson]

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. If you're in a territory for six months and they're not doing anything with you is because you got something they don't like.

[Steve Austin]

But also it might not be because you haven't evolved to what's going to get you over. Because then I would take you. Case in point. And I'm not trying to make this about me, but when I came here as the ringmaster, I'd been working seven and a half years as Stunning Steve. I had the TV belt, tag belt. There were plenty of opportunities, but I was only over at a certain level. Ringmaster, hey, fuck that. Shave the head, grow the goatee. Stone cold Steve Austin. All the pieces of the puzzle were together then, and I knew how to work. And I was pissed off. And I was able to then maybe capture people. So then I think, Pat, it's the ability of you as A baby or heel to capture people. Whether it's love or hate, trying to be a baby face or heel, whatever the case may be. But it's resonating or establishing a relationship or rapport with the people, Right?

[Pat Patterson]

Yeah. That has a lot to do. And you know, like, you go to some place and you're there six months, it may be I didn't click on this. I didn't click. Or they had too many baby face, they had too many heels. I'd go someplace else, you don't know. But that phrase that they say, wrong time, wrong place, I don't know.

[Steve Austin]

But you got over wherever you went.

[Pat Patterson]

Yeah. For some reason, I don't know why.

[Steve Austin]

But you were also accepted wherever you went.

[Pat Patterson]

I accepted. But I'm talking about working also, you know what I mean? It's like only one place is Arizona. I screwed up. I screwed the promoter.

[Steve Austin]

You know what happened in the Arizona story.

[Pat Patterson]

It was a small territory then, and I worked there. And it was a promoter, he didn't know the business, but he had a little territory around Arizona. So the name of the building, you work there and on Saturday night, a small building called Madison Square Garden, I think it was 200, 300 people, it was packed. And you got maybe 100 bucks for that night. That made your week. You know, the little towns. But he was such a piece of shit, honest to God, he treated the boys bad and everything else. So I held him up. I had the belt and that says, I'm leaving. Yeah, you got the belt? I said, it's mine. I said, you want the belt, you're going to have to pay me. You know, I held him up. So the guy that was work with before I left, you know, he's in the ring and I got. I says, give me the money. 550 bucks. Give me. I'll give it to you after the match. No, no, no. They give it to me now. I put up my tights, I went in the ring. He tells me to have a hell of a match. I told my opponent, as soon as we hook, 1, 2, 3, that's it. 2, 3, belt I got. And Louie was outside with the car, jumping the car. The clothes were all there, gone. Boom.

[Steve Austin]

When you were working with Vince McMahon Sr. What was the difference between him and Junior when he would come in and take over? Because if I remember in the book, right before Vince Sr. Passed away, you went to his bedside and he asked you to help out.

[Pat Patterson]

But what happened is that he was. When he was sick, okay, Vince was in the office And I was on the road, you know, like Jack Lanza was or me or whatever. But the old man would say, you're gonna. Ogan. I mean, Hogan's gonna be there, and Andre, you know, make sure you take care of Andre. He always loved to take care of Andre, you know, so. Yes, yes, Vince, don't worry. We will, you know. Okay. And it broke my heart because he was dying. You know what I mean? So we had the Battle Royal. I'll never forget that. The Battle Royal with Andre and Ogan. Vince was asking me, what are we going to book there? First night in St. Louis, where are we going to book? I said, I don't know. Who's Ogan going to work with? I don't know, Pat, we've got to come up with something. I said, well, what about the better world? We'll have a trophy. Yeah, okay. No matter what. That was our first show in St. Louis.

[Steve Austin]

What was Vince Sr's vision as a promoter versus Vince Jr. Oh, he doesn't.

[Pat Patterson]

Have the same visions as Junior. No. Vince Sr. Had the Northeast and he had the stars there. So he was happy with that.

[Steve Austin]

That's all he wanted.

[Pat Patterson]

Boston, Philadelphia, New York. I mean, God, come on. Yeah, it's great big towns and Dallas, you know, all you had tv, and they were. Well. But Junior wanted to. He went to. Wanted to go to the moon.

[Steve Austin]

So what did you think when Junior took over? Because a lot of the boys are rumbling backstage, hey, man, this kid's gonna blow this for everybody.

[Pat Patterson]

Believe me, they were, you know, and that kid's gonna ruin it, you know. Oh, my God. All these guys, the Italian guys who were in Boston for years. A little guy, he's going to kill the business. And. Oh, God Almighty. And it's a funny thing how it happened. He ordered a booker, George Scott. That didn't last. Hogan didn't like George Scott. And Hogan was in. Then Bobby Heenan was in. Everybody hated George Scott. I don't know why, but they did. Anyways, I'm on the road and I'm in Toronto. Vince, will you announce the next card for the next month? He said, I don't know. I'll call you back. Mark. An hour later, Vince, you got the card. I know what to do, God damn it. All right. He told me what to do. I said, vince, I said, it seemed to me like you're having the problem. He says, what do you mean? I says, huck, you know, you're behind all the booking and everything. He says, what the hell do you want me to do by myself. I said, vince, I got a week off. If you want it, I'll go help you and put you a week or three weeks in advance. He said, shit, no one's ever offered me that. So I go to the office. I'm in the basement smoking a cigarette. He's in his office and I'm booking some of these matches. This town and that town, boom, boom. He comes down later on, he goes, oh my God, you got three, four weeks already. You know. And he's checking, maybe we'll erase that and all that. Still smoking. It's been there ever since you had a secretary.

[Steve Austin]

And he came down one time and you were filing some of your reports and stuff in a filing cabinet. And he says, what are you doing? He goes, I'm filing stuff. That's what you got a secretary for? You didn't know you're supposed to use a secretary to help you do your work?

[Pat Patterson]

Yeah, I didn't know.

[Steve Austin]

You're afraid to ask her to do anything.

[Pat Patterson]

Yeah, I'm just doing everything myself. I know that. That's true, that's true. I never forgot that. And when you asked me to work in the office after that, then I wasn't too crazy about it because now I'm going to be working in the office and he takes me out with Linda. Sit down, have a nice dinner. Patrick, as of tonight, you're a senior vice president. What does that mean? I have no idea. No idea what? A senior vice president. Oh, you know, Vince, you're going to give me a title and when you're tired, you're going to take it away from me, right? I didn't know what it was.

[Steve Austin]

Yeah, yeah.

[Pat Patterson]

So I worked in the office for a while. I had a blast in the office. It was fun, a new thing to do. And I played a lot of ribs there.

[Steve Austin]

In the office?

[Pat Patterson]

Oh God, yes.

[Steve Austin]

What kind of ribs? In the office?

[Pat Patterson]

Okay. There was an old man that would come in the office from one floor to the other every two weeks and he would sit in the hallway in the little boot and he would shine shoes. He would knock on the office. Shoes, he had five pairs at a time and he shines them. Then he keeps on moving, you know, he makes a living like this. I'm sitting in my office, I'm looking at that little box there. God dammit. I take that box, what do you think I do? I go and hide it in the ladies room. This guy's coming back with his shoes and he's freaking out. I mean, he is actually freaking out. I can't believe that somebody stole my buck. That's how I make my living. I can't believe it. The oldest secretary. Terrorists are outside. They think he's having a heart attack. It's the emotion now. It's crazy. I said, what the hell did I do? I'm in my office. My phone rings. Vince, Patrick. Did you have anything to do with that? I said, yes. He says, I love it. Oh, some guys would come in the office, you know the ceiling here now they put the ladder up. They got a. Put this thing apart and everything else. And they're there for 20 minutes and they come down, they disappear. What the hell? Been going for a long time, no problem. Take the ladder and go to hide it somewhere else. They come back, they can't find the ladder. All kinds of things like that. I would put some little note, what do you call it? A little card. Out of order on each elevator. One morning, I got there early. I'm there early, so I'm up. Around 7 o', clock, people started to arrive at the office. Everybody had to walk up the stairs, including Vince and Linda. It was out of order.

[Steve Austin]

All they had to do was push a button.

[Pat Patterson]

That's it.

[Steve Austin]

Hey, let's fast forward. Montreal. Screw job. You maintain in the book you had nothing to do with it.

[Pat Patterson]

Absolutely.

[Steve Austin]

Straight up. Shoot.

[Pat Patterson]

Oh, yeah, shoot. If I had, I would have said I had no choice to be part of it. I did not know. Steve, let me tell you. I was watching the match because I always liked. I mean, there's a curtain, Owen is there and what's his name?

[Steve Austin]

David Moore.

[Pat Patterson]

And we're watching the match and all of a sudden, holy shit. And they go, what the hell is this? I had no idea. Now I'm freaking out and I look at gorilla. Before there was gorilla. There was a lot of people there. Yeah, there was not many. Some people knew, but I didn't know. I don't know what to do. I'm freaked out. Honest to God, I didn't even go see Vince. So I took my suitcase, my briefcase, I went downstairs in the parking lot and I'm fucking quitting. I get in the car and I went to the hotel across the street, have a few drinks, and that's it, I'm quitting. I just. I was shocked. Honest to God, now I'm drinking and I'm drinking and I'm there about a half an hour, 40 minutes, then I start thinking. I look like I'm running away, you know, I looked like I'm fucking. I'm A afraid I got to go back. I get in the car. I go all the way upstairs. By that time, it's about half an hour, 45 minutes later. Where's Brett? He's in his room. So I start walking. Somebody said to me, don't go in there now because there'd be trouble. I said, I'm going. They see Vince was there earlier. I said, I don't care. I'm going to go talk to Brett. And I knocked on the door. Who's that? Pat Patterson. They opened the door and I went to Brett. He was sitting down. I said. I said, brett, goddamn. I had nothing to do with it. If you believe me, shake my hands. If you don't, you know how much I fucking help you over the years. I didn't know. I did not know. And he wouldn't shake my hand. And I left. And the next day we were in Ottawa. Oh, my God. Even the boys were a little strange.

[Steve Austin]

Because I hadn't been in a crowd. I thought, man, when Brett got screwed and then he was going to go down to wcw. And I was just thinking, what are we going to do with the one and only Bret Hart? Bret Hart was a big part of my career, man. I love that guy. So I'm like, what are we going to do without Brett? Because I just thought that much of him. And of course, everything transpired and everything ended up okay. But there was a lot of bad blood there. Forever. Finally, you were able to break through and make peace with Brett Wright.

[Pat Patterson]

It took a long time.

[Steve Austin]

Yes. Many years.

[Pat Patterson]

Two, three years, I think. Yeah.

[Steve Austin]

What would you have thought had you been in his boots that night?

[Pat Patterson]

I don't know.

[Steve Austin]

That's ultimate betrayal. Right? But I mean, but by not wanting to do business, I mean, the promoter has to do what the promoter has to do. But you know, you know, you say this in the, in the book many times, Pat. This is sports entertainment.

[Pat Patterson]

Yeah.

[Steve Austin]

So everybody knows that, but to us it's real.

[Pat Patterson]

Yeah.

[Steve Austin]

And so Brett was so real about that and his fan base in Canada that he had made up his mind that he could not drop the belt there anywhere else.

[Pat Patterson]

I thought I was wrong on his part. Big time. Big time. So what do you do? Vince had to do what he has to do, right? I don't blame Vince. No. At first you go, what the hell did he do that for? Oh, my God. After a while you digest it and you know the reason why you had to do it. But I didn't know. The funniest thing is that in the afternoon they're sitting down together, you know, and I'm there sitting down with them, blah, blah, blah, talking and walk away at. Now I know why they were talking because I think Sean knew it, but I didn't. So they're all getting along. That was Vince was. How are they doing? Doing great. They're talking. Talking spot. Great. Okay. I have no.

[Steve Austin]

Nothing as good as the ironman match was 60 minutes. I think they added a few minutes to it. There was never any love lost between those guys.

[Pat Patterson]

I don't think at that time there was.

[Steve Austin]

Well, I think they were so competitive.

[Pat Patterson]

Yeah.

[Steve Austin]

I think they weren't mad at each other, but I just think they were so competitive that that was an awesome match. But then after that, you know, the screw job, I think. I think that there was a divide. But I guess in the video that they did, the dvd, I guess now that they've come full circle. Pat, in all your travels on the road, all the ribs you played all the bullshit shenanigans. You never got into drugs.

[Pat Patterson]

No.

[Steve Austin]

You love to drink. And we've had a few drinks together and I started to love my vodka, my whiskey and my beer.

[Pat Patterson]

That's it.

[Steve Austin]

How was it with trying to. When you first started being in the position that Vince hired you in? Because this was before everybody had cell phones and trying to get finishes to guys and guys would not turn up. We take for granted. Or the business today takes for granted. Or relies upon modern technology.

[Pat Patterson]

Yeah.

[Steve Austin]

But back in the days it was. And you guys were running four shots a night.

[Pat Patterson]

Oh, it's crazy.

[Steve Austin]

And so you were the guy that everybody was calling. So what could have been a dream job was a fucking nightmare, wasn't it?

[Pat Patterson]

It was. Believe me, it was crazy because Vincent was trying all new things. He was growing and oh, Pat, you got to take care of this town. Oh, you have no idea. So many stories. So many stories.

[Steve Austin]

What happened in 2006 when you were in Montreal, you were visiting and you were having some pain.

[Pat Patterson]

Yeah.

[Steve Austin]

And this would lead to your aortic aneurysm.

[Pat Patterson]

Yeah.

[Steve Austin]

Describe that to me.

[Pat Patterson]

Well, I was playing golf and I had my sister with me in downtown Montreal. And my back was killing me. God damn it. I thought it was golf. And I go outside, I stretch on the sidewalk. And it was a pain in the back. It really was. So since I was not living in Montreal that much, my sister took me to Laval and to a clinic. A clinic. At 4 o' clock in the morning?

[Steve Austin]

But she made you go, didn't she?

[Pat Patterson]

Oh, she came with Me?

[Steve Austin]

Yeah, because you just trying to. No.

[Pat Patterson]

Sell it, but I got to go. She says, we're going to go to the clinic right now. They took an X ray, said, this is very serious. I said, what do you mean it's serious? It's very serious. And you're going to go to the hospital right next block. You got to go there. I'm going to send this. I said, come on, Doc. No, no, it's serious. Go there. And I went and I waited for about half an hour. There was a specialist there in no time. And when they brought me in on a stretcher right away, right away, I said, wait a minute, Doc, wait. Let me know what's going on. He said, sir, it's very dangerous. They put me in a scanner twice. He said, we operate on you now. I said, doc, how bad is it? You have 10% chance of surviving the surgery. And if things goes well, there's a chance that you could be crippled from the waist down. I said, that's nice, Doc. So I gave my rein to my watch to my sister. They wheeled me in and I woke up about seven days later. Very lucky.

[Steve Austin]

But the thing started off like a normal or maybe a large aneurysm would be like 5 millimeters or centimeters and yours was like triple.

[Pat Patterson]

Mine was 11. Yeah, double that doctor, that specialist, he says, I can't believe you're alive. I can't believe you're alive. Even my own doctor that issued a report, Pat, you're the luckiest guy in the world.

[Steve Austin]

You are the luckiest guy in the world. You had a great life.

[Pat Patterson]

I did. I did.

[Steve Austin]

What made you finally decide to write the book?

[Pat Patterson]

Vince?

[Steve Austin]

Are you kidding me? I've been trying to convince him to write a book for years because of everything that he's done.

[Pat Patterson]

Oh, him. It would be.

[Steve Austin]

It would be amazing. So why did it take so long for you to do this?

[Pat Patterson]

You know why. I think since I've been around Vince for many years and traveling together and Vince got to know me well and he knows my life. He knew Louie, you know what I mean? And we always get along business wise and everything. And Vince looked at me, you know, to him, he's like, pat, you worked your ass off. You helped so much. You did so much. And he goes, pat, your story is a great story to write. I said, I don't need to write a book, Pat, what you went through, you know, I said, I don't know, maybe I will or not. And that's how he got me into that.

[Steve Austin]

Was it Cathartic? For you? Was it a load off your back or was it enlightening for you?

[Pat Patterson]

It was release. It was a question. They said, well, should I write a book? I would not want to write a book to make money. That would not be the reason. But I would forget about it, you know, I would go maybe six months or a year later. Patrick, when are you going to write the book? You know, then I started thinking and started thinking, and then what helped me is when we did the Legends House. This is where it started. I think, God damn, I had enough. Or, you know, I can say, I know the guys that were with me at the table, they knew I was gay, but I never said it to everybody. I am whatever you want to say. It felt good to say it. You know what I'm saying? It felt good to be me now, you know? And after that, I said, now I got to write the book.

[Steve Austin]

When you did that on Legends House, when you, like, officially picked up, came out because some people suspected, some people knew, right. But you had never said it, or if someone asked you, you'd give them a tough guy routine. Hey, what the you talking about? Or whatever, as you've said in the book, right?

[Pat Patterson]

Yeah.

[Steve Austin]

So. And on Legends House, did that just finally free you up? It's like, hey, it did. Everybody knows now, God damn it. I ain't gotta hide nothing. This is me. This is who I am. If you don't like it, this is the way it is. But this is me.

[Pat Patterson]

Yeah, you know what, Steve? Looking back years ago, you know, you go to the territory and you go to the bar after that, what do you see? Rats. I shouldn't call them that, but they're there, okay? And the guys can have their pick, okay? They go to a party and they have a good time. No problem. A lot of times, some of these guys would say, pat, I'm going to call my wife, say hello. She knows that you're with me. There's no problem. Nah, we'll just have a couple of beers. Oh, you're okay with Pat, but as soon as the phone is off, they're going upstairs with a girl, right? So, okay. So that happened every night, which is okay with me. Could I go somewhere in the gay bar? No. Patterson was singing at the gay bar. God, no, I could not. You know what I mean? So it sucked. You know, they could have all their fun. I couldn't.

[Steve Austin]

No kidding. No.

[Pat Patterson]

I didn't want to be known in Matt Madison. He was in the gay bar the other night, you know. Oh, my God. Even if you just go to a bar, have a beer and hit somebody. A gay guy wrestler. I could not live my life the way I. I wanted to.

[Steve Austin]

How frustrating was that?

[Pat Patterson]

Well, you get used to it after all. But you're still thinking about it. Yeah. Like in Montreal or anywhere now. In Montreal, I go to the bars. I go to the karaoke bars, the gay ones. I don't give a damn.

[Steve Austin]

Had you come out in speculation or in hindsight, had you came out, maybe your peak years were in big time. Wrestling would raise demons.

[Pat Patterson]

Yeah.

[Steve Austin]

What if you'd have went to Roy Shire and said, hey, man, at the Cow Palace, I'd like to announce that I'm gay.

[Pat Patterson]

Oh, God, no.

[Steve Austin]

That had been. It would have killed the territory. Right? I don't mean, I just.

[Pat Patterson]

I'd be gone.

[Steve Austin]

You'd be gone.

[Pat Patterson]

Yeah.

[Steve Austin]

Because you, you couldn't do that then.

[Pat Patterson]

Right?

[Steve Austin]

And so. But to have that, like you said to kayfabe the business, to kayfabe your personal life all the years you did. I mean, and the business is one thing because we love it and respect it, but the personal thing, it's you. And that's 24, seven. There's no, you can't get away from that. Because in many stories, I mean, you're like Nick Bockwinkle, I forget the other guy, Pepper Martin, all these guys y' all love to talk about everything but the business, Right? So you could get away with the business but still be with the boys.

[Pat Patterson]

Right?

[Steve Austin]

But. But you could never get away from the fact because you were hiding your secret and could never ever be totally free.

[Pat Patterson]

Yeah, it was a hard thing to do, and I'm glad I did it, Steve.

[Steve Austin]

But you wanted to do it to help.

[Pat Patterson]

Well, I wanted to do it before I die, for Christ's sake. You know what I mean?

[Steve Austin]

And to set the record straight, or for no one to be. No rumors, hey, this is this path, you own it.

[Pat Patterson]

Yeah.

[Steve Austin]

And there's nothing wrong with owning it. It's just who you are.

[Pat Patterson]

Yeah.

[Steve Austin]

And so. Fuck.

[Pat Patterson]

You know what bothers me? Because I used to read stories about where the. Some of the kids, kids 15, 14 years old, they get thrown out of the house by their parents because they're gay. I mean, it's sad, you know, but the parents nowadays, they accept it a little bit more. But years ago, forget it, you know?

[Steve Austin]

Yeah, back in the day, it was a different time. But today is today.

[Pat Patterson]

And some of those kids that got thrown out, they're on the street getting drugs and shit, you know what I mean, so I hope that it wakes up people anyway. Just go for it. If you have a goal, just go for it.

[Steve Austin]

But just in looking back, man, I admire your career and all the chances that you took, all the things that you did. At the end of the day, you were able to. It wasn't like Roy Schauer. He didn't really care for you when you first came in. People knew or suspected, but the fact was, you rose to the top in every promotion that you went to because your passion for the business, your talent for the business, your mind for the business, your Persona and everything that you created and your dependability, you were the perfect. You were the model employee if there ever was one. I mean, straight up, that's the truth, right?

[Pat Patterson]

You don't bullshit, Steve. I know that. So bullshit.

[Steve Austin]

Yeah. How could someone ask for a better person? And so the name of the book is accepted, and you are always accepted. And the fact that you got to come out and say, hey, here's the bottom line. Yes, I'm gay, and there's finally freedom. I love the book, and I'm going to say this. I had a shit pile of notes on my computer, and I didn't get through half of them. And there's many more stories in this book, and it's a ride that will take you up and down, and you will laugh out loud on some of the stories of the ribs that Pat played. But it's a book. It's written from the heart. I didn't want to just go straight from the book. I wanted to talk about some of the promoters that Pat had worked for, because there's some great learning lessons in there. But if you have any kind of passion for the business, or if you just want to hear a story about a guy that was gay who reached about the highest level you could reach in the business of professional wrestling. A macho, badass, tough business. I suggest you read Accepted by Pat Patterson because I enjoyed the shit out of it, and it was able for me. Pat, as long as I've known you, as much as you've helped me to read your story, and God damn, I. You had a hell of a life. And for all the things that you had to hide, you always made chicken salad out of chicken shit. You did. And so the glass is always half full. And Louie, wonderful Louie, for forty years, and God rest his soul, he passed away. I didn't go into that, but you guys just did your thing and y' all blended with everybody, and people loved you.

[Pat Patterson]

Yeah, I love you, Steve.

[Steve Austin]

Thanks for talking to me.

[Pat Patterson]

Can you imagine? Stone cold. Stone cold. Macho mantra.

[Steve Austin]

The business. God damn it.

[Pat Patterson]

Isn't that beautiful? Wow. This is. This is the compliment.

[Steve Austin]

Thank you, Pat.

[Pat Patterson]

Thank you so much.

[Steve Austin]

All right, everybody, give me to go home. Q is time to wrap up his podcast and ride off in the sunset. But before I do, I want to thank my guest, Pat Patterson. Pat Patterson helped me out tremendously in my career in the wwe. He really helped out the Great One, the Rock, the most electrifying man in the history of sports entertainment, and so many other people, including the Undertaker, Chris Jericho, Cactus Jack, Mankind. He probably helped dx. I know he's helped Triple H in all kinds of capacities. He's just a wonderful guy. And this book is really a book you got to read. We only glazed over a couple of the subjects in the book. Just kind of followed parts of the book. And Pat has already given me his word that we're going to sit down and do part two, totally unscripted, with no outline. Just two guys shooting a breeze about the business of professional wrestling. I'm looking forward to talking to Pat once again. Just shooting a breeze without any protocol or no agenda, just hanging out. And Pat Patterson is one of the brilliant minds in the history of the business. I've already said this a few times before. If you go to YouTube and just type in Pat Patterson, Ted DiBiase. That match those guys had, Pat Patterson versus Sergeant Slaughter. What was it, 81? Whatever the year was in Madison Square Garden. Man, watch that blade job as Sarge hits right there. When he hits that corner, turnbuckle. It's a thing of beauty. Hate to say that on the air, but that's what it was, man. Holy smokes, two guys. Watch the salesmanship in this match. Badass. Badass, indeed. Hey, man, let me throw a couple plugs at you. While we're doing plugs, check out Pat's book. I guess you can find it online at Amazon. Use my links. It's called Accepted. This is a really fun read, Pat. I think the reason he was so successful in the business of pro wrestling is because he always liked an audience and he always loves to tell stories. Anybody who's ever hung out with Pat around the bar, in the dress room, just hanging out, shooting a breeze. Pat loves to tell stories. He tells a story, many stories in his book, and it's a great read, and you'll laugh out loud at some of it, especially some of the ribs. It's a good book. You gotta check it out. Hey, man, all my T shirts over at broken skull ranch.com that I wear on. Broken Skull Challenge we start rolling cameras this Friday. We're going to go through a camera rehearsal and on Monday 29th August, we start shooting Broken Skull Challenge for CMT. This is the one and only toughest show on television. Lots of pretenders, some contenders, but they ain't nothing like what we got over there at the Broken Skull Challenge. Aguadulce, California by way of Texas. The Broken Skull ipa. My beer. Made by El Segundo Brewing Company. It's the best IPA in the United States of America. Here in California, you can find it at Whole Foods and Total Wines. If you don't live in California and we can deliver it to your state, go to Brokenskullranch.com There's a link for it. You can buy the best beer in the world. The Steve Austin Broken Skull Cold Steel knife. Yeah, that's right. This is the baddest knife money can buy. With a 4 inch blade. All United States of America parts assembled in Taiwan. To save the working man a buck or two, check it out on Amazon. Use my link. That's where you're gonna find your best price. Anything Steve Austin you find at broken skull ranch.com I want to say thank you for supporting the sponsors of the Steve Austin podcast because they're the ones that let me do this for you free twice a week. So big thanks my man. Diamond Dallas page at ddpyoga.com go to ddpyoga.com Austin to get 20% off the DDP Yoga program and three months of full access to the DDP Yoga now app. Big thanks to DraftKings go to draftkings.com use the promo code Unleash to play for free with your first deposit. Big thanks to Onnit go to Onnit.com Steve to get 10% off your order. Big thanks to CarnivoreClub Co use my promo code Steve to get 15% off your first box to TrueCar and of course to Amazon. They've been supporting this podcast since day one. If you use my Amazon links whenever you do any online shopping, Amazon will kick back a couple of bucks to the podcast. It doesn't cost you nothing extra. Ain't no hidden fees. You buy whatever you plan on buying and you will help out the podcast and the process. And you can find my Amazon links by going to podcast1.com click on the killer Deals button in the top right corner of the page and then hit the Steve Austin show button. I got Amazon links for Amazon USA, Amazon UK and Amazon Canada. So go to podcast1.com click the killer deals button in the top right corner. Then click on the Steve Austin Show. All my great sponsors are there. All my Amazon links are there. You can bookmark it and save it and do it all in one click. Amazon helps us pay our production costs and they don't charge you nothing extra. That's a great way to help this podcast keep running two days a week for free. Hey folks, keep listening. The 62nd AP news headlines are coming up next. Until next time, my Tuesday show, Family Friendly. I'm talking with the best tag team in the world today, the Revival NXT Tag Team Champions. They are Scott Dawson and Dash Wilder, two badass cats. It's a very candid conversation. I had a pleasure talking to them. Until then, my name is Steve Austin and I will catch your ass down the road. Download new episodes of Steve Austin Unleashed every [e-mail] that's podcastone.com this September, CBS Hits are streaming free on Pluto TV. I'm coming in for this month only. You can watch full season of the CBS shows you love. From the courtroom drama of Matlock to the heroics of Fire Country. Go back to where it all began in NCIS Origins, or watch the hilarious hauntings of ghosts. All for free. Full seasons of the CBS shows you love this month only on Pluto tv. Stream now. Pay never.