Jeff (0:00)

Welcome to the Stimpak Podcast. Stimpak is a Haiti focused think tank and interventional ngo. Thank you for listening. Hello. Welcome back, everybody. Welcome to The Stimpak podcast 43 Days to Freedom series. Good to have you. Thank you for coming back after day 29. I know that was a rough one, so I salute you for, for sticking it out. Thank you for your. Your strength and willingness to hear hard things and hopefully, hopefully learn something along the way. I'll just pick up where we left off and try to move forward as. As far as we can. I'm hopeful that my wife Mary will be able to record today. That's exciting. And so 29 obviously left off very rough. Was certainly in a, in a tough spot. You know, the rest of that day and evening was a series of terrible experiences with one guard after another coming in and, and causing trouble. My position in the room was right next to the door, meaning if you, if you open the door all the way open, you'd essentially hit my head. And, you know, I was commanded to lay down the whole time, nobody specified on my chest or my back. So I would flip back and forth. Luckily, one of the other guys, actually two of the other guys, lent me a shoe, one, one, one each of their shoes to use as a pillow. So I had that. And then other than that, just, you know, bare concrete, which, you know, sounds terrible. And yes, it's uncomfortable, but the upside is it's cold, right? Or colder to the. And you're always trying to avoid the heat and, you know, not sweat in misery the whole time. So peeing on the concrete, while filthy and uncomfortable, at least is cool to the touch. So I would occasionally slide over to a new spot that was cold because I had warmed up the old spot. Just kind of a system of that while I had to stay lying down. I don't remember how long they enforced the lying down. Eventually I asked Chef Rasta, I think the next morning, early afternoon, he comes in and I'm brave enough to ask if I can sit up. And I think he doesn't answer, but then comes back later and says, yeah, you can sit it up now but not stand up and. Except to go to the bathroom, which of course humiliating and frustrating, but it's better than having to lay down all the time anyway. So, you know, emotionally I'm essentially trying to fight off despair. The. There's essentially the loss of hope. And of course, rationally, there are a hundred reasons why you should be hopeful. But, you know, in, in, in super intense moments, you know, when I was having trouble with the guards on day 29 and into that, that evening, you're just focused on what's right here right now, right? Get through this moment, survive this, right? But as the, the day gives way to the evening and then the, the early morning hours, you're not focused on the moment. You can now look forward a little bit. And as you look forward now, you can start to be hopeless, right? And so that, that's problematic because you're, you're looking to the future and it's miserable, right? And your, your ability to rationally perceive or view or predict the future is diminished by your grief, right. I, I, I was so bad that I wasn't free. Right. That our escape didn't work, that the ransom didn't work, and that my, my standard of living just diminished dramatically. I wasn't sure if the harassments were going to continue. And so all of that grief comes out in, in despair if you're not really careful. And I was having trouble with keeping enough cognitive energy to be careful with my thinking. You know, I know better, and I know the disciplines of controlling your thinking in those kinds of situations. But, but, gosh, was I tired and emotionally and having a hard time avoiding that despair and hopelessness and having discipline around, considering all the reasons why I should be hopeful in that environment because, you know, everything just seemed terrible. So day 30 was really rough for that reason, right. It wasn't so much that I was being harassed as much or that I was hungry or tired or uncomfortable. It was really fighting off that despair and hopelessness. There's a story that I used to tell my young men, my youth, that I would lead in my church over the years. And I taught seminary for a while, for four years, maybe 10 years ago or so. And one of the stories that I would tell them was from my army experience when I was trying out for the Army Special Forces. It's called Special Forces Assessment and Selection. And it's a, I don't know, it's like a three, four week vetting process, right? It's a tryout. Kind of feels like a competition, but it's really just a gateway. And maybe you've heard of the Navy Seals buds, It's comparable to that, but for the Army. And I was sent to that in, I don't know, probably 1999 or something like that, long time ago. And I go and it's very, it's extremely difficult, right? It pushes you to the, to the brink. You're sent by your unit. There was probably 350 guys there in the beginning and want to say maybe 80 made it to the end and maybe 70 of those were selected. But on like day, I don't know, 15 to 20 of that very harrowing physical trying experience. Everyone's bodies are falling apart, and mine was no exception. And my biggest injury was my ankle. It was pointing to the, like my Achilles tendon was incredibly sore. So much so that it would make this clicking sound when I would walk, like, as I would articulate my ankle. Click, click, click, click, click, click, click, click. I don't even know how that's possible or what was it was knocking up against, but it was not a good sound. Uh, and so I would, in order to not cause further injury, I would kick my foot to the side and, and walk kind of like, like a pirate, right, with my, my right angle ankle. Uh, it was, it was just difficult, right? And on this particular day it was, it was really hurting me and. But worse, we had to go fast. It. We were in a road march where everyone's kind of in a, in a single file line and we're going fast with a bunch of equipment. I don't know what we're carrying, but it's heavy. And we're going through the sand of Fort Bragg and, and just trying. I'm just trying to keep up, right? I'm barely keeping up with the group. And you don't want to quit and you don't want to fail and you've come this far and you want to succeed and so you're, you're trying your, your very hardest. And I remember praying, God, please, please help me. You know, I would like to succeed at this, but my body's falling apart and I don't have much left and that kind of thing. And we're walking on a fairly flat trail, but through the sand and fast. And so it's difficult, but at least it's not uphill. And I remember looking through the. We're, we're on a road and so there's really tall trees on each side of the road, you know, going in, in perpetuity. And so I'm, I'm pleased that at least it's going to be flat for a while and hopefully this event will end at some point and I'll survive, but at least we're not going uphill. And then I see there's a break in the trees maybe, you know, 100ft up, but I can't see much else, right. Because it's kind of like a maze environment. You Can't. You don't have much visibility. As we come up on that break in the trees, I can see that it's a road that goes to the left and it goes up and. But we are on the right side of the road, so we're on the opposite side of the road, so I'm hopeful that we're going to pass it. But as we get close to that break and then even past that road, at the very last second, the Cadre, they call him, which is like the. The teacher, the guy in charge of us, he makes a left the last second, like he's clearly playing with us. And so we. We make that left and. And start heading up. And of course, the moment he made that left, I'm just devastated and am about to quit. And so I. I say this kind of, like, last prayer of, you know, God, please help me do this right, If. If this is possible. You know, let me. Let me succeed at this. You know, help. Help me try to. To do this thing, because I can't imagine that I'm capable of making it to the top of that hill, because it's huge. It wasn't actually huge, but emotionally it was huge. Probably maybe a mile to the top. And the. The answer that I got to my prayer, the answer that came to mind was, look ahead to that patch of grass right there. And it was maybe, I don't know, 10, 15ft ahead of me. Can you, Jeff, make it to that patch of grass? And the answer was, of course I can. Right? I can make it that far. Right. And so I vetted it out and made it to that patch of grass. And then I. I felt the next kind of question come to mind in a new patch of grass, maybe 15ft out, and can you make it to that patch of grass? And the answer was, of course I could. Made it to that one. You can see where the store story is going. I get laddered all the way up to the top of the hill, and I succeed. And the lesson that you're probably getting out of this, that most people do is that big, hard problems, seemingly insurmountable problems, should be broken down into little pieces, and that helps us to succeed. And that's a great lesson. You should get that lesson. Wonderful. But the vastly more powerful lesson to me at that time was that we can do things that we can't imagine we are capable of doing, that our. Our brains understand what. Or. Or think we understand what we are capable of, but we're wrong. Right? We're actually capable of much, much More. And that lesson to me at that time was huge. It was fundamental, absolutely life changing to, to know cognitively, rationally that I believe I'm capable of this finite amount of thing, whatever that measure happens to be. And related to whether it be perseverance or physical strength or emotional ability to be resilient or whatever measure of human capability that we want to apply to ourselves, I believe I'm capable of this finite amount. And I am wrong. I'm actually capable of much more, right? And knowing that, that, that I, I could be wrong and more capable was a fundamental shift for me in my life. And so I've used that same understanding of my inaccurate self perception of my capability to in essence bite off more than I can chew my whole life, right? And so that is the mentality I had on day 30 was okay, you are capable, Jeff, you can do this, right? Like staying on top of my, my self talk so that I could get through this thing. Recognizing that there was, that despair was irrational rather than rational, that there's all kinds of reasons to hope. That was that battle that I was having. And luckily I, I had that life lesson years ago. It was most certainly fueling me at, on day 30, on the morning of day 30 and throughout because I, I needed more strength than I, I thought that I, that I had. Okay, so day 30, the end of day 30 and day 31, DJ is getting close to being released, which of course is great for him. And he needs to go. He's been in bad shape, you know, hallucinating. And I was thrilled that he was getting close to getting out. And on day 31 he does get out. I'm pretty sure it's day 31, I might be off by day. And before he gets out, he claims to me that he can get money for me. Now recall that I was recommitted to that 100k, you know, at gunpoint with a bad cop on day 29. So in my brain I'm figuring out, you know, how am I going to wriggle out of this? And you know, either somehow pay that or show that I've that it's impossible to pay that. How do I do that? And I haven't come up with any solutions at that point. But GJ was there and he heard me recommit and he's been doing his best to think through a solution for me also. And he thinks he's come up with one. He knows a loan shark of sorts. Loan shark infers devious intent. That's not the case. I'M just referring to a guy in Haiti who has cash that he lends out for short periods of time for higher interest rate than a bank would. Right. So in the US we call that a loan shark. It's probably illegal in the us it certainly is not in Haiti. So, you know, having cash is a high value thing in Haiti, especially US dollars. So he thinks he knows a guy who can get me that. And, you know, I'm thrilled, and I shouldn't say thrilled. I, I am optimistic that, hey, maybe we've got a chance at doing that, because I'm willing to try anything at this point. You know, some of the morality around avoiding paying a large dollar amount has left me at this point, I don't have the, the stomach to tough it out. And so when DJ comes with that possibility, I, and very welcoming to the offer. I would say I had significant doubts that we would ever be able to make it happen, that he would find the guy, that the guy would be willing to loan to me, that we'd able, be able to actually get me out if they paid it. Like all these factors that diminish my prediction that we'd have a successful outcome. But I'm willing to try lots of things at this point. And so I greenlight DJ on that and say, hey, if you get out, you know, do your best to try to make that happen. And, and he's, he's expressed his feeling of debt to me that he got me in this mess, which is not fair for him to take that on himself. But I'm grateful that he wants to help. So then on day I think it's 31, he gets out sometime in the afternoon, I believe he gets out and we're of course, all thrilled for him. The three of the four of us that are left in there, it's myself, Stephanie, my other security driver, who we call Reggie, and then this other guy who I never knew who got in on like day three or four that we were there. We'll call him Ray. Poor Ray. I always felt terrible for him. He took a lot of beatings. He actually didn't have money to pay for ransom and didn't have family that was willing to pay. And he, they called some of his family in the US and they all essentially denied any sort of involvement with him. And that essentially made the kidnappers treat him like a deadbeat dad. And they knew he didn't have any money and so they would just beat him. It was horrible. So he eventually gets out, I want to say, on maybe day 34, 33, something like that. And I was grateful for him that he was able to get out. So at this point, Dimitri is gone and it's just the four of us remaining. Yeah. And so on day 32, we get food and water for the first time. And if you've ever been without water for an extended period of time, that is a terrible space to be in. Right. We had a little bit of water the day before, but it was bleached water. Right? Right. So it. Because it was. I don't know where they got the water from, but luckily they told us it wasn't good water. And they also gave us a little Clorox, like little baggies of Clorox bleach. And we would put some of it in there. And whoever mixed that up mixed way too much bleach. And so it tasted like you're drinking bleach and so you feel like you're dying from thirst, but you're willing to, to try just about anything. And, and so we would drink the bleach water, but that just makes you more thirsty. It's terrible. But on, I believe it's day 32, we get real water. We get a big bag of sacks of water and we're pumped. You'd think you would just start down in it like crazy, but you actually start rationing, right. Because you're, you're wise enough to know that you want, you do not want to feel like you just felt before. Right. That feeling like you were in a desert. So, so we're, we're rationing it out. But those first drinks of water after being without it for a long time were fabulous. So we get that, we get fed again. And then I get a call from DJ on the phone. He bring me, brings me the phone. And he claims that he's working on the money. Of course, congratulate him on getting out. He claims he's working on the money and that he's talked to a high level gangster, that I've done food distributions for his area before. So he's trying to get allies for me and, and maybe get me out through political means. Right. Non monetary solutions to get me out. We've already paid one ransom. Maybe that'll work. Right. And so I'm, I'm grateful that he's doing that. He claims that the food and water that we got, and we actually got mangoes for the first time, which of course to me is like gold. And not just from an emotional standpoint, but even having sugar, which was a big deal. He DJ claimed That. That VIP treatment, so to speak, that we were getting that day was because he had made this call to this particular gangster who was indirectly allied with these guys, right? They're all kind of allied in one way or another. They interact and they have business dealings. So I'm grateful that that's kind of moving forward. He tells me that his loan shark guy is willing to do the deal, but he needs evidence of my ability to pay. And so I'm trying to figure out how to do that. And I realize I probably have that kind of documentation on my phone. And they're giving me the phone for the first time since day 28, and they're giving it to me a lot, right? It's not just, you know, these intense kind of torture call moments where they're hovering over you with intensity. They've given it to me for, I don't know, 15, 20 minutes. So I'm having this call with DJ and then I'm thinking maybe I can get this banking loan kind of thing set up. I can get the proper documentation sent over him. So evidence to pay, ability to pay. The problem is I can't get any signal in room two. There's. There's far less signal, for some reason, than there is in room one. And so I asked the kidnappers, hey, can I. Actually, I didn't ask them yet, but I'm. I will in a. In a little bit ask the kidnappers if I can go back over there just to make a phone call or to get a signal so that I can download documents. But before I figure out the idea of, hey, let me go into the other room for better signal, I'm stuck with no signal. But I do have the EDGE network, which means I can make a phone call. And so I figure out that, you know what? Let me take this time. I'll call Mary for the first time in weeks and see if maybe she can help me get this file sent to DJ Right? So I have a. I just listened to this phone call. I have it recorded. I call Mary, and it's wonderful to hear her voice. One thing about being captive is the worst part. Explain this in my interview with. With Stephanie. The worst part is you're imagining the damage that's being done to your loved ones at home, right? The stress that they're feeling, the grief. Who knows what they're going through? You have no idea because you. You've never been on the other side, but you can imagine that it's bad, and imagining their misery is miserable to you, right? Perhaps more so. Because you're always imagining the worst. Right. I since learned that that was terrible for Mary as well. Right. She was always imagining the worst for me, which was not always true. Right. Some days I was fine. Right. This was not one of them. But anyway, so I'm listening to these phone calls just, just now of myself on the phone. And in that conversation, you can hear that I'm, of course, just thrilled to hear her voice. But the wonderful thing that happens that day is I learn that Mary is okay. Like, of course she's stressed and miserable and sad and. And having this harrowing experience, but she's somehow becoming more powerful, more capable. She's this. She's developing this refiner's fire strength that I just hadn't considered possible. And I can feel it in her conversation. She's very clear. She's stern with me. She's clearly got a set of instructions that she has in the back of her head, things she can and cannot say, things she can and cannot do. She's trying to communicate with me without communicating with the kidnapper. She still thinks that I'm being listened to. Right. The whole team still thinks that there's somebody who speaks English that, you know, is. Is listening to all our. All our calls. And so she's being very careful in her speech. Right. And you can hear it on the recordings. And it wasn't till after the call and we end up hanging up that I was just elated. Right. It was. It was, of course, super fun to talk to her on the phone, but it was way more fun to realize my wife has not been destroyed. I'm. I'm gonna come home to not a. A lump of a human on the ground who's, you know, in the fetal position, wrecked from high stress. Right. Like, I've seen people who have been through similarly high stress trauma situations who crumble and. And it wrecks them for a decade right. Before they heal and come back. And I had always worried that this could very much be happening to my wife at home. That's a horrific thing to imagine and would often come to my thoughts throughout the previous weeks. And to get my wife on the phone and realize not only is she not a destroyed human, she's actually become more awesome. And that was such a fun thing. I was, of course, still mortified at all the trial and terrible she had to endure to become this greater human. But the fact that she had was. Was so relieving to me and thrilling. And I remember talking to Stephanie about it at no end, just with a Grin. I, I, I was pumped the rest of the day. It was such a, a great relief to me to know my wife had not been destroyed. I, I can't communicate that to you properly, but it was such a fun breath of fresh air to know that. Okay, so back to the phone call. I'm trying to get her to, to send this proof of ability to pay. I was basically looking for her to send a bank statement, right. To D.J. and then D.J. would show that bank statement to his loan shark dude and maybe that would, would get us access to some cash and country and, and get out of here. Right. And Mary's having none of it. Right. She's like every, everything I say, she, she's managing me, right. She's handling me like, yeah, that's a terrible idea. So we're not going to do that, Jeff, right? Or yeah, I'm probably not going to be able to do that thing that you asked. Why can't you? Well, I can't really tell you that. And, and I'm not gonna just totally handle. She's, she's on my team, but not on my team. Right. We clearly have two very different strategies of, you know, ways to move forward. And we're discussing that. It's like a six minute phone call. Uh, and anyway, so it, it ends with me feeling guilty that I, I try to push her to, to do that and backing off, recognizing that she's clearly conflicted. She's, she's, I don't know who's watching her or who's listening to the phone calls and, and she's not really telling me, but she is trying to tell me to knock it off. Right. And, and trust her and the team and stop trying to be your own hero. Right. And she does her best to communicate that. I don't really remember my emotional state. It, I shouldn't say emotional state. My, my planning and my, what I had decided to do my, my action plan after that call. But I do remember just the emotional component of just being happy that my wife was awesome and that, that was a fun thing. So I get off that phone call. A couple hours pass. I don't remember what happened. I actually thought it was the next day that I called Mary again, but I just looked at the phone records and it's the same day, just later, later in the day and I get on the phone with her again and push the issue again of, I think I came up with some other ways of trying to get that documentation because I, I think I thought that she was going to Feel like she was breaking the law by sending that documentation. And I had come up with this idea, okay, we'll, we'll let DJ log into my email, right? Can you just help him get into my email? And then maybe that somehow is a, a workaround for you. And she shuts the door on that. And, and she asked me a few other questions and she didn't realized that DJ was out and she, I think she wanted his number or something like that. And I know now that she's essentially just trying to get to DJ before I can complete this deal, right? She does not want me to pay big, which is great and the right thing to do, but I was absolutely working against her at that. And, but I give it to her and I also give her the information around the, the high level gangster that was maybe helping us out that day and got us food and whatever. So she's doing this awesome job of collecting intel from me, right? She's had some time to think about it since a previous call. She's got action items that she and the team have developed and now she's just pumping me for information where I'm trying to get her to help me to keep this plan. And she's just looking for all the ways to destroy it. And by the time I get off that call at the end, we're able to settle down a little bit. There's, there's, there's nobody kind of nipping at my heels and I was able to have a little bit more of an emotional kind of connection call, which was glorious at the time. I was able to express my love to her and the children and that was, that was fun. And anyway, so we get off that call and I don't know what she does, but I start to imagine what she's doing in my head. And I'm pretty sure she's going to try to sabotage my thing with tj. And so I'm trying to figure out how to solve that. And so that's when I ask. I believe it was Chef Rasta. Hey, can you get me into the other room? Because I think there's a chance of getting signal over there because I would get signal from time to time. And he says yes. And so he walks us in there and it, you know, it all looks totally different now. It's empty, no beds, but I stand kind of in the corner by the window and I'm able to get signal. Awesome. That gives me just enough time to download a PDF from one of my emails, from one of my accounts and I'm able to send that to that PDF to DJ via WhatsApp. And then I'm able to call him and confirm that he received it. And he did. He's like, great, this looks good. I'm going to show it to my guy. We should be good. Awesome. I'm pumped, right? Thinking, all right, we, we got a decent chance, right? We've, we've crossed enough hurdles. It looks like this could work. And I give him the advice I had said, hey, dude, look out for the FBI or some US government agency, because I think they're, they're going to try to stop you, you know, from doing this. And he's. I don't know if he heard me or, or cared or what. I don't know what his response was, but I basically said, my wife is coming for you. And so I'm hopeful. I go back into to room two, thinking, you know, we'll see, right? And by that evening, I'm pretty certain that they're going to get to dj, meaning my wife's team. I don't know who, I don't know that it's actually the FBI or what agencies are working, but I'm pretty confident they're working against me. But I'm actually fine with it, right? Remember that I'm trying to not get tortured or killed. And if I can prove to the kidnappers that I'm doing everything that I can to pay them, the heat's off of me, right? At least should be off of me, theoretically. And it does work that way, right? If they can see that you're doing your best to pay them and you're by process of elimination or you're trying to succeed, that is sufficient to take the heat off you in this case. And so I certainly needed to show that. But at the same time, I didn't want to pay the big dollars for all the moral reasons that we've discussed before. So I feel like I'm doing exactly what I have to do, which is try to get this money and show them that I'm trying to get this money money. And if by chance it works, great. I'm bummed from an ethical and moral standpoint that I've paid a big number, but at least I'm out and we've succeeded or I fail and we do some other route. But either way, I've got to, I've got to do my part and by process of elimination, display to them that I've done my part. And then I'm not this pressure point in the middle of my team saying, no, we're not going to pay big, because we already paid. And in them saying, yeah, you're gonna pay, right? Because I am the pressure point in the middle of that. So if I can put on this show, hopefully I can. I can not be the punching bag in the middle. And it's working, you know, to that effect. And so that night at 32, 33, I'm thinking that through, and I'm pretty certain that DJ is going to fail, that my team is going to get to him and thwart his efforts. And I don't remember what I did to kind of seed that idea with Chef Rasta or even Chef 2 might have been around that night. But I. I'm saying those kinds of things to Stephanie, and she's explaining them and kind of market conditioning their minds a little bit, preparing them for that potential eventuality. And so the. That next morning, I think, is. No, it's day 35. It is day 35 that next morning. So that, anyway, you can figure out the math. So that morning, I'm. I'm hoping that either DJ has succeeded and. And is ready with the cash and can set up a rendezvous, but I'm pretty sure that it's going to be the other way, right? That he's going to have been intercepted by my team. And so I. I get the phone pretty early because the, you know, kidnappers are. Are excited that, you know, we're probably ready. And I try to call dj, and he's not picking up the phone. I call him again. He's not picking up the phone. And he sends a text, says one. One little message. It says, FBI. All right, here we go. And luckily, I was prepared for that and had decided that if that was the case, if he was shut down, I had to throw a fit of sadness and despair in front of the gangs because I had to convince them that that was my last hope, right? And that if. If not that, then I was going to die here, right? And I had to show them that I believed that, right? And so as soon as I saw that text and knew it was real, I. I just started freaking out. It's the best acting job of my life, right? I was banging thing. I threw the phone down, I stood up, I'm banging the wall. Like, no, it's the end. I'm gonna die here. I'm freaking out, right? Total scene. And it worked. The. Stephanie's freaking out for me. She's helping me sell it with F. Rasta, who then starts pulling in other people. I Think Chef Bad Cop comes in too. Like, just a whole scene. Like I'm yelling, I'm, you know, whatever going off. And this scene goes on for like 10 minutes, right? Me just rage, monstering and utter despair, right? And I remember the kidnappers kind of come and go, and one of the times they, they came back, they're like, what do you think we should do? Like, should we. Should we get rid of our phones? Should we get new SIM cards in our phones? I was like, yeah, throw away all your phones. Like, for sure the FBI is listening to all our calls. Like, we're all in trouble. They're probably coming, all that kind of stuff. And you could see they totally bought all that. They're. They are legitimately concerned that that trouble is, is coming. Right? And, and that's great, right? That, that helps me for them to have some uncertainty, right. But it certainly helps me not be this punching bag in the middle. Right? Great. And so from that point on, I'm. I'm pumped because now I can turn them back over to my team and they can handle their negotiations the way that they want to. Right. Clearly, I'm not going to be able to succeed in being my own hero, so to speak. The DIY path is not going to be possible. I've proven that to them. Let's move on. Great. And so I don't hear anything from the kidnappers zest of that day, at least not attention to me. But sometime in the afternoon, early afternoon, they come in and they grab Stephanie and they take her over into the other room. They say, we'll be back. Don't freak out. We'll be right back. And that's a weird thing for them to say to me. Like, they're, they're managing my feelings now, right? Because clearly I've shown the ability to flip out, right? And so they take Stephanie in the other room, and I, I find out when she comes back that she says, I think I'm getting out. And she says that somebody called another person. Called another person. And, and they, they've come up with some sort of solution. She's not believing it, but that's what they told her. And they also told her to manage me, right? And to either not tell me or break it to me slowly. I'm not sure what they. There were some. They were separating her so that I wouldn't freak out with the idea that I was going to be alone, right? And, and further freak out like I had been earlier that morning. And so. But I'm, of course, pumped for Stephanie. And she has been there a long time, and she's been having a really hard time the last couple of days, of course. So I'm. I'm only elated for her. Later that afternoon, just. I don't know, maybe an hour or two after that, give her clothes and. And she's gone. I give her a big hug, and she takes off. And I was alone there, you know, and feeling lighter, though. Even though I was alone, I. I was happy to just be the only one in there and not have to manage. Not manage, but feel responsibility for the others, wherein, you know, I definitely put Stephanie at risk. And the other guys who are in room two, DJ and Reggie and Ray. And it was nice to be done with all that, right? Everybody's out. I forgot to mention that Reggie and Ray got out, probably because we kind of skipped those days. 33, 34, they each got out. It was like one a day for a while, all the way to Stephanie and then me, and it stopped being one a day. But being by myself, I was also excited because clearly that's momentum, right? Everyone's gone. They've been in these wars all along the way. Doesn't look anything like it did when we first showed up where it was. You know, there's all these people. It's like 15 people now. It's just me by myself. It feels like, you know, you spot that pattern, I should be out soon, right? It was. It's. It's a bummer because I know that, you know, they're still holding on to that big number, but I feel like this charade, this big scene that I just put on and we tried to pay. I'm. I'm pretty confident that was a convincing thing. And I. I'm hopeful, based on my calls from with Mary, that they're holding strong on the outside and they're not willing to pay. And great. Day 35. Stephanie goes home. I'm thrilled for her. But then I don't hear from anyone. There's, you know, no contact with the outside for a long time. I'm only just getting the kind of standard harassment from the guards. They're just coming in and poking the bear, you know, a few times a day, throughout the day. That's, of course, obnoxious. I get to the point where, you know, I'd be in a dead sleep at, you know, 3:00am the lights are always on. So ever since the escape, they. They find fuel for the generator and they run the generator, and the light is always on my room, which is its own kind of terrible to try to sleep with the light, a bright light on you. But anyway, so, so you know, day 36, 37, 38, are, are that me just kind of struggling with solitude. I would, I would do my walking around the room to pass the time, you know. Luckily I didn't have a lot of hope on my case. Moving forward quickly. I assumed that, you know, both sides were going to be on it in a standoff for a while. And I just kind of resigned that I was going to be there for a while. Which strangely is a better way to pass the time than hoping every day that maybe today's the day, maybe today's the day. Like that that's much harder on the soul. So I'm just passing the days as, as fast as I can, trying to kill all the bugs that I can. It was, you know, there's no windows there. There are the louvered glass windows, but those are, are opened and I'm not allowed to touch them. So you're just trying to kill the bugs as best you can and pass the, pass the day, try to you know, stretch and keep your, your body together because you're, you know, there's lots of bumps and bruises at this point and you know, achy things. Then on day 38, I get a phone call from Billy and Billy's my negotiator and Billy says, hey, you know, hang in there. I just want to get proof of life and make sure you're okay, you know, are you okay? Like no. Okay. Like what are you guys doing? Like I, I remember saying something to him on the phone. Something like, you guys got to reach out more like help me to, you know, just say hello every day if, if you can. And, and he's of course trying all day throughout the day to get a hold of me and you know, the gang is letting, letting them have or give me the phone occasionally. But anyway, I whine to him about solitary a little bit and he's like okay, well you know, we'll try, you know, we're, we're trying plenty. And then I try to explain to him the situation that everyone's gone and I believe the gang is ready to deal. Have you made an offer, even a low ball offer, you know, recently? And he's like, no, I don't think the gang is, is ready to deal. We're trying some non monetary solutions right now. That's really our strategy. So we just need you to stay strong and stay put. And I try to counter with Dude, I really think that they're Ready to deal. You know, all the, all the signs around me point to that. I remember hearing sounds in room one where I was before, like music and a woman was singing. And then I, if I walked around, remember there's a big red curtain over my window. But if I walk around to the bathroom, there's a window there and I can see that one just fine. And the louvers are open, so I can see a ton. And I would occasionally see a little bit of movement down there of what was likely one of the kidnappers girlfriends that had moved in. And if they're moving people in, that suggests that they're, they're out of the kidnapping game for a little bit. Writing every sign pointed to that. And I'm trying to explain that to Billy over the phone. Like, dude, I know that they stiffed you on the last one and maybe they'll stiff you again, but it looks like we got a shot at something. And so I try to encourage him to deal, like, try to bring them to the table and not just say, hey, we paid you already. And then I, you know, I hang up the phone or I give the phone back to the, the kidnappers and I don't hear from them again that day. But what I later learned was that they, the kidnappers actually blinked first on that phone call and signaled interest in dealing and, which is, of course, wonderful. So that next day, day 39, I get the phone pretty early in the day and it's Billy. And he says, hey, it looks like we might have an accord here. And I'm pumped and at a low number and something everybody's willing to do. I think they were, they were close to an accord at that point, but it looked like it was going to happen. But he tells me now that they're pushing for a live exchange to do it in person. And I'm not sure if I've mentioned this to you before, but the, you know, the normal process is the ransom is delivered to the gang, the gang takes it up the hill, they count the money. If it's all there, then they get the captive and they bring them back down to the, the courier or the family member, whatever. That's normal process. That's what we tried the first time. That didn't work out. And so my team is saying, okay, we're, we're doing live exchange this time, no messing around. So we want Jeff present at the time that the, the money is, is delivered. I mean, the reality is, you know, they've got big guns and nobody's going to do A, you know, start shooting at each other in a live exchange anyway. So if the gang decided to take the money and then keep you, they could do that anyway, right? They, they could kidnap the courier. Right. Like they're really in charge of all of it. But for whatever reason, we think the odds are increased. But with a live exchange. So that, that's what my team is pushing for. I, it took probably that day for the, for the kidnappers to agree to that, to the live exchange. But eventually I, I hear that the, that they've agreed to it. I remember predicting on one call they're never going to agree to that. And then Billy calls me back, yeah, they agreed to it. Great. And now they're, they're arguing over location. So the, my team doesn't want to come into Martison, which is gang territory, to pay. Right. They want a neutral position. But reality is there is no neutral territory. Right. If they come out of gang controlled territory, the police can pick them up. Right. And they're not willing to do that. And so that standoff lasts for a couple of days. And so on day 40, you know, I'm, I'm at my wit's end because I, I already heard that, you know, they, they had an agreement. And so now every hour is a long hour, right. I'm really, I'm super hopeful that I'm getting out, that I'm getting out. Okay, awesome. You know, day 39, I'm going to get out. Okay. Day 40, I'm going to get out. So on day 40, it really looks like, like I'm getting out. So they already have an agreement. And my, my team looks like they've agreed to meet at the stadium because I remember I'm kind of playing three way conversation. I'm talking to Billy on the phone, but I'm also talking to, to Bad Cop and Rasta and kind of trying to come up with a solution for a location that would work. And there was a stadium that was really close to Martison where, you know, could arguably be considered neutral territory. Right. And I mentioned that to these guys. It's actually the same location we were going to have those really young gangsters take us when Stephanie and I had escaped, the stadium was the location. And so I suggest that to Chef Rasta and Bad Cop and they said yes. What I didn't realize is actually are thinking of a different stadium that's in Martison, right. And they're like, yeah, sure. So I tell that to Billy and it looks like that's going to work out. It Doesn't. Right. That that plan dies and waste a bunch of time. And, you know, I think we're really close, and then we're not, right? And. And that. That's rough on. On me because I keep thinking we're close. We're close. On. On day 40 in the afternoon, I get a phone call from a new voice. It's this guy who I'm told is Dave, right? That's not his real name, but I'm told it's Dave. And it's an American accent. No, no, Haitian accent. And I. I don't know this guy. And he claims he's with my team and that he's got my ransom money and he's at the stadium waiting, and that I should encourage the gang to. To bring me to the stadium, and he can't go any further. And he's kind of playing dumb. He's definitely playing dumb, but I'm having a hard time picking up on it, right? He's. He's speaking English, so I assume he's speaking to me, but it feels like he's just a courier, right? He's actually an operator, but I think he's just a courier. Never heard of. Of him. Nobody's explained in any of this ruse to me. But what my team is doing is they're trying to lure the kidnappers out a little bit at a time, right? Their plan is to say, hey, meet us here and get the kidnappers to say no here and. And then keep luring them a little further, a little further, a little further, and, you know, assume that they'll be fine with it, and then I'll be free. That's their plan. I don't know this plan. And so when Dave calls me and says, hey, I can't come out any further, I. I'm coming up with solutions, right? Like, okay, I don't know you, Dave, but, you know, thanks for your effort. Sounds like you're scared. You should call DJ. Let me give you DJ's number. And he's like, no, I. I have DJ's number, right? And forget what happens on that phone call. But it basically ends that way. Like, hey, you should. You should call dj, right? And then I hand the phone back to the kidnappers. I think I explained that to Chef Rasta too. Like, hey, you know, they're having trouble getting the money in. I told him to call tj because, you know, he'll. He'll be brave enough to bring it in into Martison, and that was not a good move. So some time passes. I Get the phone again, maybe an hour later. And it's Billy, my negotiator, and he is livid. He's screaming at me for the first time. He's just yelling at me, call me stupid. It's like you ruined everything. We had this plan, and this ruse was set in place, and you had to go in and derail it by mentioning DJ and just. He's freaking out at me. I was like, dude, I don't know what you're talking about. I don't know how to ruin things because I didn't even know what you're trying to do. I'm sorry. Please don't give up on me. And then we hang up with him just yelling at me and calling me stupid. And that was rough. I would say that was one of my top few low points. I thought I was getting out that day. And so at that point, I was given a really thin piece of foam that I had gotten from one of the other guys who had left and use that as my bed. And I had a sheet that I was using. And that morning, in anticipation and expectation for leaving, I had cleaned all that up and folded it up in the corner and think I'd even cleaned the room, maybe mopped up and just as part of a strange kind of exit ritual. And then I was sitting on a bucket instead of laying down. There was something symbolic to me about laying down on the ground was, you know, you're. You're staying. And sitting on this. This bucket was, hey, I'm. I'm ready to go. I'm getting ready to go. And, you know, I remember taking that phone call with Billy sitting on that bucket. And, you know, he was raging at me, and I give up. Give up the phone. And then he get. I give it to Bad Cop. And Bad Cop is. I can hear him yelling outside. And then he comes in and says, you know, we have. We have no deal. No accord. You know, you're going to die here. You're going to be here forever. You know, we're starting over at 100,000. And I was just crushed. And, you know, there was a moment there where hopelessness and despair was creeping in fast. And I'll share with you a little miracle that happened, you know, a lot of times. You know, I'm a big music guy. We're actually in a music room right now. There's a drum kit right there and a guitar on the wall keyboard over there. I'm big into music. And during 43 days that I was in captivity, I would try to Think of music to be uplifting. And it's shocking how hard it is to think of lyrics and music out of thin air. I shouldn't. I know thousands of songs and I could not think of songs while I was in there. For some reason it was. It just come up empty. And you might think of, you know, a chorus or two. But trying to stitch together a whole song was. It proved very difficult. And sometimes I would try to sing hymns. I. I remembered a couple and I would, I would sing those. But, you know, if the kidnappers heard you singing, they usually come in and cause problems, especially hymns. And when all this bad news was coming in, I remember getting up off the bucket and going over to my, my bedding that I had folded up and unfolding it in a moment of resignation, right? Of I'm going to be here for a long time, right? I'm. I'm definitely not leaving today. I'm going to be here forever, right? That kind of despair, helplessness. And as I'm unfolding that and then crumbling onto this pad and sheet, I hear the lyrics to that song specifically in the portion that says, do not be discouraged thinking all is lost. And while that song may not be particularly relevant to that moment, that lyric certainly is right. And that felt like an inspired message that I most definitely needed at that and took courage with that phrase. Not a lot of courage, but just enough to stay out of that despair space and take some deep breaths and try to focus on the positive. And, you know, it was a long night that day 40 and because things had blown up so fantastically and emotionally with Chef 2, I didn't expect to see them for a long time. Figured we at least were looking at probably a week before I'd even see any movement on my case. And so I tried to tell myself it was going to be a long time and to settle in. And I did started picking up a routine to pass the days where I would do my laps around the room. I was always wanting that phone to ring. And if I. There was little peepholes in the door in room too also. And so I could look out and see whatever guard was watching me. A lot of times it was Chef Rasta was out there and he. There was a bed, an actual mattress out there in, in the common area. And he would sleep on that and I could see where he plugged his phone into to charge the phone and you know, would. Would listen for it to ring. You know, I, I knew the, the ringtone very, very well. So if I would ever hear It. That was hope for me that maybe my case was moving forward. And I would want to be looking out that peephole all of the time. But of course, that's not good for you emotionally, and it's also a risk because you don't want the kidnappers to. To catch you looking through the peephole. And they could come in at any time without warning. And so I would walk around and around and around this room just to pass the time, you know, a couple miles a day. And I would. You would get dizzy if you'd go too much in one direction. So you flip every 10 laps, flip directions. And I would allow myself to look through the peephole. I think every 20 laps or something like that. But while I was doing those laps, I would talk to each of my children out loud. I would never talk to Mary just because it was too much, but I would talk to my children and just, you know, as though they were walking with me just to kind of keep their. Their minds or the. Keep them top of mind, and it. It was helpful. And so on day 43, I was in the midst of that kind of routine, and a bad cop comes in, and he's not wearing his mask. For the first time in a long time, we'd seen his face just because we'd seen him out the window. And then he would sometimes put his mask on while he was coming in the room. So I knew what he looked like and of course, knew his. His body and his bracelets and rings. But he came in with a hat on and no mask. He's got this like. Like a leather wide brimmed hat. And he's like, hey, we got an accord. He's like, what are you talking about? Like, yeah, we got an agreement. It's. We're setting up a rendezvous now. And I was conflicted. Of course. I wanted to believe that, but wouldn't let myself believe it. And so he leaves. And I am saying out loud, it's not real. It's not real. It's just a trick. And I'm just trying to manage my emotions and continue my walk. And at this point, I can barely walk. Like, my. My body's not working right. I don't. Something happening in my back and my sciatic. And like, I'm. I'm hobbling, but just still trying to stay active and not just, you know, lay there. Some time passes, maybe a couple hours, and the phone comes back and it's that Dave guy again. And this time he's not playing an act now he's he's making it clear like, hey, I'm you go your negotiator. Now. Billy's taking a break, but we've got an accord and we've got a plan and we should do the exchange this afternoon. It'll be a live exchange, probably in a couple hours. We're putting all the pieces in place to prepare for it, and then we're sending a courier in to come get you. And now I can believe it and. But I'm still ready for it to fall apart in a hundred different ways because that's all we've seen thus far. And in some time passes and Chef Rasta shows up and he brings me my clothes and he says, put your clothes on. And I forgot to mention back on day 40 when everything blew up, they had given me my clothes also then so that I would tell my team, hey, they're, you know, they, they want this deal to go down successfully. You guys should come in to Marchison to get me. So they gave me my clothes, but when everything blew up, they took my clothes again. Anyway, so now on day 43, roster comes up, shows up with my clothes and my passport and credit cards that I, that I had from the beginning and my shoes and says, put them on. And you know, that's a great sign, but of course, we've been here before. So I put them on. I sit on my bucket and I don't fill up my, my sheets this time. And a couple hours pass, maybe, I don't know, 4:00, 4:30, something like that. And Chef Rasta comes and gets me and says, let's go. And he walks me out to an SUV that's parked out in front of the house and sets me in the back. I'm sitting behind the passenger side. Nobody else is in the vehicle. I wait a few more minutes. I remember looking back at the house and a bunch of the guards are there sitting in front of the house on buckets. And I remember thinking how strange it was that they all have nothing to do now. Like they, they still live here, like I'm presumably going out, but this is still their reality. I would not say I was sad for them, but it was a strange realization that I was their life, right? It was their work. Who knows what they're going to be doing now. Anyway, so I sit there, I wait for a little bit, and then some new guy, who I've never seen, this must be a higher ranking chef, comes and sits in the driver's seat and then back up, sits in the Passenger seat and he's got his. His leather hat on again. And he's. He's a different person. He's. He's not the. He's not yelling anymore. It's almost as if his terror Persona has a switch. So now he's. He's fine. He's like, relaxed and kind of smiling with the other dude. Not with me, but with the other guy. And anyways, light and, you know, they both got weapons. Ross or Chef 2 has a pistol that he brings with him. And then this new guy who's in the driver's seat has an assault rifle that's he puts between his. His legs and starts driving. We go down the hill and I, you know, I'm thrilled at this point. I'm encouraged, but like a cat, am looking at everything because, yeah, this is a live exchange, but this can go wrong in a hundred different ways. And I can most definitely be dead at the end of all this because all they want is the money. And if they get the money, they don't need to let me go. And who knows what kind of statements they might enjoy making about that. There's a hundred scenarios I can come up with where this does not go well for me. And so I'm all eyes and ears wide open, trying to figure out what's happening. I'm encouraged by the fact that Chef 2 is relaxed, which signals to me that this is not going to be a trick. But who knows? So we go down the hill. We kind of zigzag around. We're waiting for the courier to show up. He's supposed to be on a motorcycle with a red shirt. We go to the meeting spot, and he's not there. And so we. We leave the meeting spot, kind of are zigzagging through the. The streets where I've told this story before, but I'll. I'll tell it again. I. We come up on this young woman, maybe 24 years old, and she's sitting on the curb either doing dishes or washing clothes, but she's using the gutter as a wash basin. She's got like, a big bowl, and she's washing something, and she's doing her chores, right? Minding her own business. And she's dressed immodestly like most Haitian women are. And they're. They're not dressed like that because they're trying to be provocative. But modest clothing is more expensive. More fabric is. Is more money. And so she's. She's estim. Honestly. And the. This chef that's driving the car, she's seated on the ground kind of beneath him. He pulls up alongside, and he says something rude to her. He stops the car and. And says something rude to her. And I'm expecting her to just kind of ignore him and move on, but instead, she turns up and looks at him and snaps at him, says something back at him, disrespectful. And then he says something rude back, and it escalates. And she starts yelling at him and telling him how stupid he is and, you know, what a problem they are, you know, gangs. And he pulls up his. His rifle, and I'm. I'm devastated for her, right? Frightened for her. Holds up his rifle and points it at her and threatens her. You know, the windows down, and he's pointing his weapon out the window. He's still seated in his driver's seat, but now he's pointed that weapon right at her. And she's standing up at this point, and he utters some last threat. And I'm thinking. I don't know what I'm thinking, but I'm scared for her and just heartbroken for her. And rather than back down at this moment, she actually walks toward the vehicle, and she doesn't press the weapon into her chest, but it's close. It's within 2 inches of her chestbone. And she says something like, do it. You'd be doing me a favor. And, you know, this. This woman appears to be killing herself. And I just could not be more heartbroken for her. Like, she's, to me, the personification of the captives to which I referred in the past. Right. These gangs are. Are terrorists, right? They have terrorized these communities all across Haiti, right? Not all of Haiti, but much of Haiti is gang controlled. It probably 80% of Port au Prince is gang controlled. And. And this is the relationship. This is a fantastic representation of that dynamic, right? The utter despair and hopelessness of these captives who are living in these areas, and the utter disrespect of these gangs who terrorize them every day. And this woman has had enough. And so just as I'm waiting for the worst to happen, this chef kind of huffs and puts his weapon down and drives away, drives forward. And, you know, I take a deep breath and. And we move on. And to him, it's like, you know, nothing's happened. And we spend probably another 15, 20 minutes waiting for my courier, and we drive back over to this spot where we're supposed to meet. It's a pretty heavily trafficked kind of intersection in Martison. I should probably send a link to that location. I could probably put that on the, the website and maybe in the show notes, we'll see if I take the time to do that. But the courier shows up and I don't recognize him, of course, but they do in the red shirt and they wave him over. He comes over and he opens the, the back door on the driver's side and hands in an old tattered backpack and hands that to bad cop. Bad cop opens it. There's a bunch of Haitian gourds in there. Haitian goods. It like stacks of them this big. Haitian good are, you know, they've suffered from inflation for a long time. So a stack this big of cash is not that much money. Anyway, he starts counting it in front of me pretty quick. But I can, I can see he's counting it and it's short like, you know, probably $120 worth in US dollars. And I'm freaking out because everything looked like it was going to plan until this moment, right? And you know, it's a nominal amount, it could be gone for 100 reasons. And I'm freaking out thinking this is exactly the kind of thing that this guy needs to blow up this arrangement and say, well, you guys didn't bring the agreed upon him out. And then, you know, I'm back up in my cell in no time. And so he looks at the courier and says, sorry, you know, that's not the whole amount, you know, what do you want to do, right? And I'm talking as fast as I can and Chef Beckoff basically tells me to shut up and gives me a look, stop, you know, inserting yourself. And then the courier basically says, I'll go get more, right? I'll go get the rest, you know. And Chef 2 says, okay. And we drive back up the hill. The courier takes off and I'm just beside myself. This is exactly what he wanted, right? Like if they wanted an excuse to keep me a third time, right? And this is, this is what they needed. So we keep driving up the hill, we go into the compound, but we don't go up to my room, right up to the house where I would stay. We stop and we pull into this other house that is clearly his boss's place. And so they walk the money in. He goes in with the backpack and stays in there for a while. I sit in the car. I think I'm by myself actually, maybe with the, the other chef, but I think I'm by myself. Other kind of gangsters come and, and interact with me a little bit, but I'M just, you know, terrified and freaking out that I'm gonna be here again. This is not gonna work. And it. I don't know how long I was there. It could have been an hour, maybe not quite that long. And Chef 2 comes back. Bad cop comes back, and he's on the phone, and he says, they've got the rest of the money and we're gonna go down the hill. And I breathe the deepest sigh of relief. Like, the fact that we're even considering doing this again for this small amount of money makes me think we're gonna be successful. Right. They really do intend to let me go. I'm. I'm thrilled. So we go back down the hill, and I'm, of course, not breathing a sire of relief, but it's starting. This is the most real that it's been. And so we go down to the main road through Martison, and pull up kind of on this median or next to the median, and we're really close to the toll booth, right where the. Remember, I used to go through previously had gone through. And those. That gang is the one that. That kidnapped me initially, and then they hand me to this other gang. I don't know if I've made that clear in the past, but the. The road is controlled by one gang, and then the kidnappers on the hill are a different gang. And so I've now been brought down the hill. And we're sitting there waiting for my courier to show up again. And while we're sitting there, what the chef of the. The street gang comes up to the vehicle, and essentially, this guy is giant for. For a Haitian. He's. He's probably 200 pounds, which you never see, and just jacked. Right? And he's got his shirt off. He knows he's, you know, huge and scary, and he. He just comes to harass me. And, you know, he. He opens the door to the. To the back, you know, and he's yelling obscenities and. And flexing at me and. And just trying to intimidate me, which is, of course, working. And I, you know, I don't. I can't quite understand the. The dude because he's talking fast and using slang. And, you know, my cradle obviously isn't great, but I get the message. And then he kind of relaxes on that, walks away for a second. And then he starts talking to Chef, too, to bank up. And he's essentially trying to talk him into keeping me for a third time. Right. In other words, give me to them. And that. That they will keep me and get a third ransom and split it with. With Bad Cop. And he doesn't realize that I understand him, but I look at Bad Cop's face while he's saying that, and Bad Cop is frightened. He's concerned, right? This guy is clearly higher rank than Bad Cop somehow. And Bad Cop doesn't know how to handle it. And he's clearly worried, right? Because he's on an errand from his chef and he doesn't know what to do. And of course, that's deadly frightening to me when he. That he's worried, right? Who's in charge in this place? And clearly no one is. And so I'm thinking as fast as I can, like, dude, how do I get out of this? Because it. This is not headed the right direction because I do not want to be with that dude. And what I come up with, that certainly feels inspired to me, was to try to do a business deal with this new guy. And so I think, you know what? I think I can maybe incentivize this guy and pretend like I'm coming back because I know that he controls the toll booth, right? So I say, hey, aren't you the chef that runs the toll booth? And you're the one that I should pay the next time I come through here, right? And because I. Because I. And I tell him, because I come through and I do these food distributions, right? That's what I do here. And you can see him think for a minute and then respond with, yes, yes, I am. I am the guy that you pay the tolls to every time you come through here. You pay me $600, which, by the way, is. Is a high toll, right? Most people are going to pay like 200 bucks. Like, you pay me 600 bucks every time you come. Come through here, right? You call me and I'll take care of you. You'll come through safe every time. 600 bucks. And I'm, of course, feeding that ego. Like, yeah, every time 600 bucks is coming to you, give me your phone number. He's like, okay, pull out your phone and I'll put my phone number into your phone. I was like, dude, I don't have a phone. I just got kidnapped. And even chef Bad Cop kind of laughs at that. Yeah, he was on the phone. So he gets, like, a little piece of cardboard and writes his phone number on the. On the cardboard and gives it to me. And I, of course, like, yeah, thanks for this. I'll. I'll be calling you soon. You know, when we come Back to do these food distributions and it worked and you know, he walked away. And moments later my courier shows up maybe 200 meters ahead. We pull ahead and we pull up alongside the courier on the moto. He hops off the moto. There's actually two guys, there's a driver of the moto. And then the courier is sitting on the back and he hops off the back and comes and hands the backpack again, this time to, directly to on the, on the same side as bad cop. And bad cop doesn't even open the, the backpack. He just waves me out and says okay, go. And I, I of course didn't wait one second. I hop out and jump on the back of the moto. The courier sits behind me. So I'm in sandwiched in between them and we drive away. And maybe you know, 100 meters into that I, I'm crying pretty good, you know, because I'm, I'm. It's starting to feel real. We're not out yet, we're not to safe yet, but we're really close. And maybe you know, a two or three minute ride later we stop and we get up, up next to a Toyota Tacoma, gold Toyota Tacoma. And I'm waved to jump in there and I do, I don't know this guy but you know, he waves me in, I get in the vehicle, we drive away. Then we get close to kind of the palace area, the downtown near the National Hospital, kind of that area. And we pull over and a bunch of motorcycles surround us, which of course is a super trigger for me. Like, dude, what's going on? And the driver says no, don't worry, these are police. My plane calls police, which I half believe, but he tells me to get in the back. I do. Another cop sits in the front seat. We keep driving with the motorcycles on, on all sides of us escorting us. And then we go to the Marriott Hotel and we pull in to, we pull into the Marriott parking lot and there's an ambulance there waiting for me. And I get out of the vehicle and I was free. And it's real to me now. And you know, it's crazy, you know, I kind of felt okay until that moment when I get out of the truck and, and realize that I'm free because now I can barely walk. Whatever kind of adrenaline was getting me going before that is leaving now or, or maybe it's showing up, I don't know. But I'm definitely in shock now. And they bring me over to the, the ambulance and they put me in the ambulance to Kind of check me out, and other than bumps and bruises, I'm fine. And they give me water. And I think they tried to put me on the phone with my team or Mary or somebody, and I waved off the. The phone. I said, please, please don't. Like, I'm not ready. Like, I can barely breathe. And I don't want that to be my first impression. But I know he snapped photos. I've seen the photos. Maybe I'll share those with you guys. They're, you know, they're not good. But he checked me into the hotel, into the Marriott, that. That after. It's early evening, late afternoon. At this point, I'm. I'm pretty weak. But they. They. They got me some new clothes, some very small Haitian clothes, but it was better than what I had on. Showed me up to my room. I remember they asked me if that. This. At this point, I. I'm with an FBI guy who's helping me out. And he asked me what I wanted to eat. And I started off by saying some pizza. And then I said a burger. And then I asked for both, and they said, said, yeah, you can have both. They showed me up to my room, and they. They posted a guy on my door and, you know, said that they. They'd be watching. Watching out for me, which was a great help, and I was very grateful for that. Where, you know, normally I. I feel very safe and not safe, but independent in. In Haiti, you know, I. I don't worry about myself, and certainly in hotels, even though I have had, you know, people chasing me in hotels. But normally I'm fine, but in this case, I'm most certainly not fine. And so I'm grateful for all the security I can get. I'm looking at everyone's IDs, I'm checking everyone's FBI ID, you know, trusting nothing. And. But they. They put me in. In the room and. And close the door. And I'm. I'm by myself in a hotel room and am just so thrilled. I forgot to say that before we came up the stairs. At some point, we walk over by the pool, and this guy Dave gives me. I can't imagine that's his real name. And he gives me the phone, and it's my wife Mary. And I remember I said, the nightmare is over. I'm free. That was the first thing that I. I said to her and of course was, you know, bawling like a baby. And I remember being struck that she was not crying. It was like, yeah, yeah, it's real. Yeah, she. She Was still very stoic and. And I don't want to say cold, but yeah, it was a. It was a strange thing because I know now she was worried that I was a wreck and, and was. She was getting a shell of a human. And so she was just afraid, you know, at that point. That's, that's the reason or explanation for why she. She was coming off cold and distant. She didn't know if, you know, is her nightmare over or, you know, just beginning in some other way, you know. Anyway, so I have that phone call and then I'm. I'm shown upstairs. I remember looking in the mirror for the first time was just astonishing. I. I could now see how much weight I had lost. I could. There's. I was covered in bug bites. You know, I remember collapsing in front of the mirror, just, you know, I couldn't support my weight. I remember I went back over and kind of half fell on the bed, kind of on my knees, kind of on the bed, and just kind of took it in for a little while and then got ready to take a shower, because I won't. For some reason, I had this strong instinct to take a hot shower and get clean. I guess that's pretty understandable. But I. I just remember gawking at myself in the. The hotel mirror, just shocked at what I was looking back at. You know, I had this super long beard now and long hair and was very pale and, you know, covered in bug bites. But got in the shower and I remember just being so into the hot water, Just cranked up the hot water as hot as I could get it and just soaked in there for a long time. Used soap and scrubbed and scrubbed, you know, it was great. It was a great, great shower. Shortly after the. The door knocked. It was that day of guy again. He brought me some. I think that's when they brought me the new clothes and painkillers. And I'd asked for ibuprofen and some sleep aids. They said, we highly recommend you take a punch of these. And that came. Actually, I got that from the, from the ambulance, right? The ambulance gave me the sleep aids. And then FBI gave me the ibuprofen and some clothes. And then shortly after, my food showed up in the room and I started pounding that and ate so little of it, because I didn't. My stomach was tiny at that point, but I was eating as much as I could. Took me like all night to eat that, but I. Heck, I ate it. I ate every, every bite. And then I remember later that night, I ordered Ice cream and ice cream came to kind of ice cream sundaes. And I ate those, but it also took me too long to eat it, but I was just loving eating. And then Mary called on the hotel phone. Late, late, like maybe, you know, nine, 30 or 10. She figured out how to call the hotel. And because I, I didn't have any phone otherwise, so no other way to talk. And it was just she and I, she was, I was on speakerphone, I think with the hotel and, or the hotel phone. And she was in our room talking to me. And we were just going very slow. She was very nervous. I was very nervous. I was absolutely in shock. And you know, when, when she called, I wasn't necessarily even happy to talk to her because it was for some reason frightening. Maybe I was, I was embarrassed that I was still crazy and I could feel that I wasn't right and didn't want to show that to her. I don't know, there's probably a lot going on there. But as the conversation progressed, you know, it became more and more normal and more and more healing. And we talked about the next day and what was going to happen. And she, she knew more about my travel plans than I did. And they, they had secured a flight for me. I think it was the 1:00 flight. There's only a few flights that go back to the US From Haiti every day. And they got me on one of those, which was not easy to do because there was, everybody was fleeing Haiti at that point. Right. So all the outbound flights were, were booked. You know, you get to Haiti just fine. But flying back to the US was always full. So they got me a ticket somehow, which I was thrilled for. And they had plans to have the FBI take me to the airport and see me off safely. I remember that next morning. Well, all that night I slept poorly. I pounded those sleep aids and they didn't do much good, but I slept a little bit more than I had in a long time. Remember, I took like four showers that night, piping hot showers. Just kept waking up, taking hot showers. And then the next morning woke up and they, they, I think I got breakfast and then they took me downstairs. Of course it was a new set of FBI agents. I of course checked their ID before. Actually, I didn't even answer the door. Cause the door knocked and they said who they were, but I didn't buy it. So I, I, I had a phone number of the security guy for the hotel that they had given me the night before. I call that dude and Said, hey, there's some people at my door. Can you check them out? And so he checks them out. He calls me back, yes, they check out. I've seen their id. They're from the FBI. Great. They come back, they knock on the door again. I go downstairs with them, and I had them run through their security protocol for getting me to the airport because I didn't want to get kidnapped on the way to the airport, because I saw their vehicles, and I was not impressed. But they told me they're. They. They had a proper protocol. I won't share that with you. But I liked what they were doing. And I got in the car and they took me to the airport, had nothing except, you know, the clothes that they had gotten gotten me. And I got to the airport, they handed me off to the head of the airport security, and that guy walked me through, got me to my gate. My credit card still worked, and so I bought food at the airport while I was waiting for my flight. Probably waited an hour, maybe an hour and a half for my flight. And I remember while I was getting ready to board the flight, I met some American in line. I remember he was a total hippie. He was there doing NGO stuff. Also, he. I forget if he figured out that I had been kidnapped or if I told him or he. Anyway, somehow he finds out. And he's very sympathetic and kind. And it was total chance that I chatted with him, because once we got seated, he was seated right next to me in the airport or in the airplane, and I wasn't first class or anything. I was halfway through the plane and he was seated right next to me. It was super grateful for that. And I sat in the middle, middle seat, and he was on the aisle, and some other Haitian guy was to my left. And I remember once we took off, feeling a pretty strong wave of emotion and was probably breathing pretty heavy. And this guy that I just met, I don't remember his name, was kind. I think he grabbed my arm or my hand or something and kind of steadying me and was great. And we chatted some more. I remember thinking the guy to my. My left was picking up on. On the conversation and figured out the scenario, the situation, that I had just been freed. And then I remember landing in Miami and had this wave of emotion again, and. And both dudes. So I bent forward, like, to hide my face, you know, and both dudes, you know, had their hands on my back, just kind of supporting me in kindness, which is. Was kind, was kind of. And I get off the Airplane. And two agents met me at the gate and kind of whisked me off and got me through security pretty quick and, you know, customs and immigration. And then they walked me out to the car. And I remember thinking that Mary. I knew that Mary was going to pick me up. I remember thinking that she was going to be in our. Our minivan, because that's what she normally drives. But she was actually in my car, a small blue sedan. And I spot the sedan, and I went running. And I remember feeling so floppy running. I was, you know, I could. I was having trouble walking for some reason. You might been, you know, in captivity for so long. My body was doing weird things. And when I was running, I remember feeling like such a weirdo and came up to the side or driver's side, and it was locked. Unlock the door, and she was expecting me to come on the passenger side. And everybody's just kind of flustered, right? And she unlocks the door and comes out. And I gave her a big hug and, you know, crying all over the place, of course, and. But it was great, you know, I was. I was finally in her arms again, and I was everything. I started being aware that I had created a scene, and, you know, people were watching, and so I. I walked back around the. Behind the car to get in the passenger side. And the FBI agents were standing, I don't know, maybe 30, 40ft off, just kind of keeping their distance and. But standing there, I think they were in tears also, but certainly had this, you know, like kind of a proud parent moment. Right. I don't know what their emotions were like, but they were. They were watching from afar. It was very, very sweet of them. And anyway, I get in the passenger side and give her a big hug from on the inside and just kissing her face and just being thrilled to be with her again. It was incredible. Remember, we took a selfie shortly after that that she wanted to send to the team and family because everybody had been, you know, praying that all this would go well, those final hours and that we would be reunited. And so she. She texts the. The group, you know, that. That photo. And let's. Let's leave it there for now. We'll pick that up later. I'm hopeful that we're going to hear from Mary today and we'll be able to interview her. But thanks for all your guys's time. It gets better from here, from here on out, but we'll look forward to that next episode. That'll be a fun one. Thanks, everybody. We hope you enjoyed this episode of the Stimpak Podcast and will subscribe, rate, review and share it with your friends and colleagues. Thank you for listening. This podcast has been brought to you by stimpak, Inc. 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