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Strategy Hour | Online Marketing for Business Growth
939: How to Write YOUR Non-Fiction Book in Just 60 Days with Stephanie Chandler
00:41:39
Stephanie Chandler, a leading expert in non-fiction book publishing, breaks down exactly how you can make this happen.
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- [00:00]
A
I think stories make a tremendous difference and it also helps to read books that are really well written. Like James Clear's Atomic Habits is such a phenomenal book that if we all modeled the way he told his stories, we'd be bestsellers too.
- [00:18]
B
Welcome to the Strategy Hour podcast brought to you by Boss Project. I'm your host, Abigail Pumphrey, and I'm dedicated to supporting online businesses. I don't believe in one right way to build a business. I'm here to help you build business your way. One that supports not only the life you have, but the life you want. I'm on a personal mission to help you become financially free. I'm taking all the lessons learned as I turned a layoff into a seven figure online business. I'm here to help you prioritize your life every step of the way, whether you're creating your first digital product, growing an email list, or scaling an already profitable business. Settle in. It's time to talk strategy. Ever dreamed of writing your own book but felt overwhelmed by the process? What if I told you you could have it done in just 60 days without sacrificing quality? Today we're sitting down with Stephanie Chandler and leading expert in nonfiction book publishing to break down exactly how you can make this happen. Stephanie Chandler is the CEO of Nonfiction Authors association, an expert in book market and publishing, and the author of I believe 11 books, including the nonfiction book publishing plan. She's been featured in Entrepreneur Business Week, the Writer and more. And today she's here to help you write your book in just 60 days. Stephanie, welcome to the show.
- [01:46]
A
Thanks, Abigail. So fun to be with you today.
- [01:49]
B
I can't wait to talk about writing. It's like my favorite thing. And I know more of our audience needs to be doing way more of it, but I'm curious. Like, let's, let's start with like one of the biggest questions. Why should small business owners and consultants and entrepreneurs even consider writing a book?
- [02:09]
A
Well, the word authority starts with author, and a lot of people don't realize that writing a book brings you just instant credibility. It is a great way to impress clients. It's a great way to get book for speaking engagements. It's really the best business card you can have. So there's lots of reasons, especially service based businesses should be authoring books.
- [02:34]
B
Yeah, I think it's such a great opportunity. I have had so many friends who've written various books in the nonfiction space, many in the business space, and it's always so interesting to watch how people move through this Process, because some people are like, gung ho, ready, excited they're going to go after being self published. And then there's other people that are like, waiting for a book deal to, like, land in their inbox. And then I feel like the friends who've ultimately moved forward with it were just so sure that they were going to write a book. And how that ended up panning out was different for each of them, but it was because they knew they were going to that it kind of moved forward. I know a lot of people have a lot of mental blocks about this, though, like, what do you think stops people from getting started or even like, taking the first step?
- [03:29]
A
I think there's a lot of imposter syndrome that comes up, like, well, other people are, have already done this or know more than I do, or who am I to write a book? Or, I'm not a writer. This isn't something I should be doing. I see a lot of that and then I see a lot of analysis paralysis, right? Like, let me come up with an idea and then simmer on this idea for the next 10, 10 years. Or let me get a manuscript written and then edit it for the next 10 years. I see a lot of that too. So I just like to tell authors you have value to give to your audience. And if the book has been written already, you just need to find your unique perspective on that book. We all have our own unique take on things, and especially if you're carving out a niche for yourself, that is one of the best ways to stand out so you know your audience best. That really comes down to what do they need to know? What are their interests, needs, and challenges and how can you serve those with the content in your book? Because what you have to say is valuable and important.
- [04:33]
B
It is valuable and important. I think everyone has a story in them that matters and how that rolls out. I think some people have a really tactical story, and I think some people have, you know, a really sensitive, emotional, like, letting people into their world story and so many in between. But I know a big reason people don't move forward is often the time horizon. Like, this feels like something that takes forever. Like, they're like, thinking about it and they're like, oh, I know it's going to take at least a year or something, several years. Or they're like, they've been simmering on the idea for so long that starting now just feels like they kind of already did. And so how do they even get off the ground? But you told me that you think People can write a nonfiction book in 60 days. How is that even possible?
- [05:31]
A
It is totally possible. I lead people through it all the time. So here's the deal. A thousand typed words is, is about three pages, right? It's a long blog post. Can you write three pages a day for the next 60 days?
- [05:46]
B
Oh, yeah.
- [05:47]
A
That's a 60,000 word manuscript. And your manuscript doesn't even need to be that long because thanks to Seth Godin, books have gotten shorter. So maybe you write a 30,000 word book and you write a thousand words a day for 30 days. So really, it's getting it out of our heads and onto paper, creating a consistent practice each week. Whether you set a goal to write a thousand words a day or 3,000 words a week with some time that adds up. And you have a first draft and then we go to editors to help make it great.
- [06:20]
B
Yeah, I think people get caught up in this idea. Maybe they're willing to sit down and write. Like the actual writing part is the less intimidating part. But it's all the other structure and all the other things that feel a little wild. Maybe they're used to writing emails or blog posts or posting on social media. But when you start to write a book, the moment you start doing research, it's like you need a story arc and you need like, chapter breakdowns. And I mean, there's all this other, like, nuanced language that even if you've written your entire career can feel completely brand new. So. So do you really just think people should start writing? Like, is that legitimately where you would begin, or is there some kind of planning phase before?
- [07:07]
A
No, there's definitely a process prior. I would not say sit down and just write and hope it comes together. But what you really want to do is create an outline. And so I recommend and personally use the old storyboard method where I sit down with a stack of index cards or sticky notes and I just do a massive brain dump of every topic I want to cover in my book. It might be case studies or examples. It might be statistics. It might be just every minute detail goes on an individual index card. And I will spend a day, sometimes several days going through this process, just getting it all out of my head and onto this paper. And then I lay it out on my living room floor. So these cards, they get spread out on the floor and I start to put them in order. And this, this logically becomes my chapters. And then I can see, oh, chapter three is way too long. I need to split that into two. Chapter five is Too short. It either needs to be absorbed into chapter four or I need to add more stories here. So really it's a matter of getting all your ideas out, filling in the holes and taking that, those index cards and turning them into your comprehensive outline that you then follow when you're writing. And by the way, you mentioned blog posts and things like that. A lot of us have been blogging for years. Your book may be half written already because you can take that content and absorb it into your outline.
- [08:38]
B
Yeah. I'm curious on this outlining phase though. How many books have you written, first of all?
- [08:43]
A
11.
- [08:44]
B
Okay, so you've done this a few times for the rest of us? I know if I were to go take notes and write out the ideas and concepts that I'm thinking of, one note card might represent pages and pages of thoughts, and another note card might represent one sentence that. I just want to make sure I have this one particular stat on a page. So when you, when you say I think quote, unquote, chapter three has too much, like how do you know realistically looking at the cards, is it too much? Are you making sure you're breaking down things more like how do you make sure the cards represent even amounts of things or is that even how you go about it?
- [09:28]
A
Yeah, I mean, one card shouldn't represent pages and pages, right? So that needs to be broken down so that you see it in the card. Maybe one card per page or something like that would help you organize that a little bit. And really, I see a lot of authors struggle with what should be included, what should not be included. And so even before the outline process, we're thinking about target audience. Right. So who's my audience? What are their challenges, needs and interests and how am I going to serve them with this book in a way that's different from how others have done it and you can actually over deliver. And today we're in a short attention span society. We want to keep things really concise and tight. I would imagine most of your audience is going to write prescriptive nonfiction, write some sort of how to book. If you're, if you're a service based business, you're teaching your audience how to do something. So you want to get your key points in each chapter and your key examples, but try to really tighten those up so that it doesn't wander and it doesn't get too big either. Because we want to keep the attention of our readers.
- [10:42]
B
Yeah, no, I, I think attention and being concise is really important. I, I know I'm the kind of person that would just keep adding on because I have more things I want to say. And obviously those things can be, over time, broken up into multiple books, depending on how you want to deliver things. You mentioned making sure that it's different from other things on the market. What does market research look like to you?
- [11:08]
A
So for me, I say go to Amazon and look for the similar books. I personally don't like to read them because I don't want to accidentally absorb anybody else's content. Right. But I can get a lot of information out of the table of contents. You know, when you search inside a book, you can read the book's reviews and, of course, the description. So I don't go and read all the books, but I definitely look at what's included, and then it's always very obvious to me what I would include differently. So if I'm looking at someone else's table of contents, I know how mine would be different. And so I find that alone is really helpful. And also, just in planning a book from the beginning, what do you have to say that hasn't been said yet? Right. So years ago, when I was starting in this business, it was way back in early 2000s, I wanted to learn how to sell information products online. And I went looking for a book on how to do it. It didn't exist yet, so I had to go study how other people were doing it. And then I started creating and selling products. And I thought, well, no one's written that book. I should write that book. That's actually how I got my first book deal, was that I had gone and written a book no one else had done yet. So certainly if you see a hole in the market, and really the more niche the better, because that really helps you stand out. Let's say, for example, there's a ton of leadership books, a million leadership books. Right. What if your book is a leadership for tech startups or leadership for women in, you know, new management roles? Something that narrows it down so that it rises above what's already there?
- [12:52]
B
Yeah. I'm curious at that stage, is that where you're trying to identify what's ultimately going to be marketable? How do you know if a book's marketable? I know as someone who's marketed a lot of other things besides books that, you know, if you have the right target audience and you have the right messaging, that can go a long way. But marketing a book is a totally different process. So is there specific things you're looking for to make sure it's going to stick.
- [13:20]
A
Yeah. I mean, you want to make sure there's an audience for it. But I would say if you're serving your business audience, you know there's an audience for it. And certainly if you're building an online presence, you know there's an audience for it. So if other books already exist in that space, there's an audience for it. Right. If it's a book no one's ever thought to write before, I mean, I would check to make sure that is a growing audience. But there's certain audiences that are always going to grow. Right. Healthcare industry, industries that are thriving. If you're quite frankly, a government employee right now, that's a shrinking market, sadly. So it just really depends on who you're serving. But I really believe if you write a great book, you get a great editor. I'm not an editor. I love editors. They're amazing. They make our work better. But make your book the best it can be and then put together a marketing plan and get it out there and if it's a really good read, your audience will follow.
- [14:18]
B
Okay. I mean, that's reassuring. I think a lot of people probably get stuck at this very beginning stage because they get fearful that it's not going to work out or that it's not going to sell. And it's a lot of upfront investment to not know if something's going to work well.
- [14:36]
A
And I'll tell you, just marketing books, especially in the nonfiction space, it's gotten a little bit easier because Amazon has pay per click ads now. So even if you have zero platform, I mean, I just did a blog post on a memoir writer. He sold 60,000 copies of his self published memoir using nothing but Amazon ads. So it's possible, especially for those of us who have some business acumen, you can figure it out.
- [15:03]
B
Well, that's wild that someone without an audience would choose to even write a memoir. I don't know why that baffles me so much, but congratulations to that guy. I'm curious though, like when you start thinking through these ideas, you get it all on the living room, Florida, so to speak. Maybe at this point that's when you realize this is too much for one book. Okay. So at that point, if you're like, okay, well it's two books or three books or whatever, how do you know which one to write first or like pursue?
- [15:38]
A
That's an interesting question. So another tactic you can try too is I like to write the book description before I do anything else. So. Right, you're Writing the sales copy essentially on and what the readers are going to gain from the book. And if you find that you've got 89 bullets, that book is too long and needs to be broken up into multiple copy multiple books in a series, for example. But I would say maybe you need to outline all of them and then look at is there a logical order to that series? Is there a burning need like in your market that hasn't been addressed that you should address right away? Because it's just going to depend on who you're trying to reach and what it is you have to say. But also when we're taught writing, we're taught to cut, right? So trim it down, tighten it up. And maybe you do have a lot to say and that's great. But a lot of times, you know, I'll talk to an author who's written 100,000 words. That's a massive book. So that should either be broken up into two or maybe some of it should be extracted and put on their blog. So there's lots of ways to address an abundance of content. By the way, I'm a very prolific writer as well. It's a challenge I have and I'll sit down and I'll outline a book and then I'll start writing and I'll go, I'm working on that right now. I have a book that it's way too much, so I'm having to separate it into two and it's painful, but it's also obvious, it's become really obvious this needs to be done. So part of that might just naturally happen as well.
- [17:11]
B
Yeah. Okay, now say we're breaking it down. We, we got it down. We know this is one book you mentioned kind of breaking it up into potential chapters. But is, is there like a strategy for this? Like, do you have a formula? Because you mentioned earlier just, I'm trying to pick apart your, your strategy here. You, you mentioned earlier that you're like, I'm not sure I have enough stories in this chapter, which I'm in the non fiction world would obviously mean examples of this relates back to. But is there kind of a formula for that that you're looking for? Like you tell X number of stories per chapter or you want to hit X number of concepts or how do you know what that looks like?
- [17:52]
A
I think chapters should be balanced. Right? You don't want a chapter that's 30 pages and the next one is five. So that's part of it and it's different for everyone. I don't necessarily follow a specific number of stories. But I do think that if I want to be concise, one or two examples is enough. Right? Because we could go on and on with if you have 90 examples, maybe the book should be about the 90 examples. But tighten it up. One story per key point is probably a good formula and storytelling is what makes it interesting to read. Right? And looking at whether it's a real world example or it's a hypothetical story or something from your own experience. Experience. I think stories make a tremendous difference and it also helps to read books that are really well written. Like James Clear's Atomic Habits is such a phenomenal book that if we all modeled the way he told his stories, we'd be bestsellers too.
- [18:52]
B
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- [22:12]
A
Yeah, I think we have to find our own unique voice. And some people are really called to write allegories. For example, like who Moved My Cheese? Or maybe the E Myth. And those are story based business books. But the vast majority of business books are storytelling with lessons built in and some just real examples. I also think that it can really help. For me, it helps to have a muse in mind. So I often will think of an actual person that I am writing this book for. Like I'm having a conversation with that person and who maybe represents my target audience. And I know what they're struggling with and I know that I need to explain it in a way that this person can grasp it. That for me has been tremendously helpful to have someone in mind that I'm writing for.
- [23:07]
B
Yeah. Okay, now let's say we've gotten it organized. We have an idea of what this outline looks like. We've translated our in note cards into some sort of document that we can work from. It'd be easy to say just like jump into writing and write it from front to back. But how do you actually do that? Because I know my inclination would be to start at the beginning, but then I would probably have A better beginning and a shitty end. And like, so how do you decide where to start?
- [23:35]
A
So I don't necessarily think you have to write from beginning to end. And in fact, I like to write my first chapter last because a lot of times as I'm writing, the book's evolving, the outlines changing. That's totally normal. And by the time I get to the end of it, it's changed quite a bit so that the first chapter would need to be rewritten anyway. So I often do that last. I also jump around so I might sit down and not be feeling chapter two today. But chapter five is talking to me like, I need to tackle that today. I think that's perfectly fine. If you approach your prescriptive nonfiction book as if you're writing a series of articles, that can also be really helpful because that helps you keep concise, right? You wouldn't write a 10 page blog post on a single topic. So you can stay concise by focusing on whatever section is talking to you today and maybe pulling in some of that past blog content and reworking that a little bit. Also, this is so important, Abigail, is we are taught in writing not to edit while we write. So the idea when you sit down to write is just to get it the flow, get the faucet turned on. So you want to just start writing. Don't stop to research, don't worry about your spelling. If I want to look up a stat or something, I make a notation in the manuscript. For me, I just use xxx because then I can search those later. And that way I can just keep the faucet on and write what needs to be said until I'm done, right? Until I feel complete. And then later I come back, I double check stats, I look up a story, whatever it is. But if, if you pause and do those things while you're writing, it completely breaks up the flow. So for me, no email, no phone. Like, lock the animals out and just get it done.
- [25:29]
B
Okay. Do you do it all in one go? Like, are you writing for two hours straight a day? Are you breaking it up? Are you writing once a week? What's your strategy look like?
- [25:44]
A
Yeah, I mean, I have the same struggles everyone else has. I run a business, I have a son, I have a, you know, life outside of my work. So I'll tell you a couple of things that have worked well for me. I've checked into the Hampton Inn, five miles from my house for a weekend to just write. And if I have big blocks of time, I can get so much writing Done. So that's one of my favorite ways to do it. We're also taught that creatively, it's good to get in a different environment. So if your office, like my office, is work, right. This is where I do my work. But if I want to tap into my creativity, I might go sit in my backyard or even at my dining room table. That where we have two dinners a year. Right. It's just a different space that allows me to. To get away from my to do list and focus. So if I can get in two writing sessions a week, I'm happy. For me personally, I like big blocks of time because if I get on a roll, I don't want to have to stop. And so I try to carve out big chunks of time.
- [26:48]
B
Yeah, I'm always surprised how much I prefer that. I mean, I think I really need four to six hours straight, which sounds wild, but I mean, if I. If I have a full belly and I have a plan and no distractions, I can sit. I mean, with bathroom breaks, I can sit there for a long time. The next thing that comes to mind is, okay, in what? Like, do I just do this all in Google Docs or should I use one of the fancy. There's like all these apps now that are out there. I'm sure there's also competitive software and tools. Is it necessary?
- [27:25]
A
I don't think so.
- [27:26]
B
You don't think so?
- [27:27]
A
No. I mean, Scrivener is a very popular tool. I think fiction writers tend to really like that as a tool. It helps you kind of organize your characters and things like that. For the vast majority of us writing nonfiction, Google Docs or Word Doc are just fine. And getting it all in one place is generally recommended. If you're compiling, you know, stats and research and things like that, some of those tools might help you get. Get them more organized. I interviewed Gretchen Rubin, who wrote the Happiness Project and a number of books, and I said, how do you organize your research? Because she references tons of studies and she's like one giant word document. That's all I do. And she just searches it to find the stories she wants to pull. So everybody does it a little bit differently. But yeah, a Google Doc is perfectly fine. And please, please, let me just beg of everybody listening, don't write with AI. It is a great idea generating tool. Do not write your manuscript with it. You cannot copyright protect that. You could get flagged on Amazon. My attorney friend calls it the plagiarization machine. Please don't write with AI.
- [28:36]
B
Wow, that's That's a strong, A strong opinion. And I, I appreciate you saying that, you know, because I, I still think writing with AI is relevant in a lot of other places in your business.
- [28:49]
A
It is, but not in a book.
- [28:51]
B
And I appreciate that differentiation. So I think relevant and something we should be really considering definitely will help you stay on that fully your thoughts and not summarizations of a million other authors that have already written in before you. Amazing. I'm feeling really inspired to go do this and write and get that draft out there. But what happens when you're there? Like, what happens when you have a manuscript? Do you, do you stop at the end of every chapter and go back and edit? Do you suggest you edit your own stuff? Do you edit and then send to an editor? What does that look like?
- [29:29]
A
All of the above? It just really depends. I personally, if I've got a series of days for writing, I just try to keep the train rolling. But then if I've had a break, let's say I've had. I haven't been able to write for a couple of weeks. Sometimes I want to go back and kind of refresh what did I write, and then I'll edit while I do that. You definitely want to do some amount of editing before you ask an editor to intervene. But yes, we all do some amount of editing before we send it to an editor. And then we have to decide what kind of editing we want. Because there are editors that can do like perform surgery on your manuscript. That's called a developmental edit, where they come in and they can rewrite for you if you're not super comfortable with writing. That can be a strategy. There's also copy editing, which I think we all need. That's like a line by line review. It, you'll get feedback like, oh, this is redundant, you mentioned this in a previous chapter. Or this is confusing. Can you clarify this? So to me, everyone needs a copy edit, myself included. And I usually do two copy edits and then final proofreading. And I generally do two of those as well because I'll keep making changes. Editing is a human function. You'd be amazed how many typos you can catch even after three rounds of editing.
- [30:46]
B
Wow. Okay, so if you wrote in 60 days, what does the editing timeline looks like?
- [30:53]
A
Yeah, I mean, it depends on your needs. But generally the copy editors that I've worked with, they can turn a manuscript around in two or three weeks. But you also need to get in their schedule because some of them are booked months out. And then it comes back to you and you get to take their edits and whether you incorporate them or not, that is your choice as the creative controller of that piece. But editing is generally just to me makes a manuscript so much better.
- [31:20]
B
Yeah. I'm sure you have strong opinions. Do you have a clear path that people should be taking? Self publishing versus traditional publishing?
- [31:30]
A
I feel like there are pros and cons on both sides and I have done all of them. I have done self publishing, traditional publishing, hybrid publishing. And I totally understand if somebody has the goal to be traditionally published. If you have an audience, it certainly makes it a whole lot easier to get a book deal. So here's a few realities of getting a traditional book deal though. You will make a dollar a book on average. They can completely remove chapters from your book. They can change your book title. They can give you a cover you don't like. They can sit on your book like an egg and not have it come out for two years. So I've been through almost all of these experiences directly. So the lack of creative control for me is really challenging. I do not as a type A business owner like that was really hard for me to give up creative control. The flip side is self publishing. You maintain all the all your control, you earn more per book either way. There's a big myth that if you hand it over traditional publisher, they're going to just handle all that marketing that is not through at all. And in fact that's why traditional publishers want authors with a platform. Because they want you to come in with a built in audience and know your book is going to sell. The big publishers in particular are putting their money in their sure things and their John Grisham's and their James Patterson's and and Cheryl Strayed and folks like that. They're not necessarily investing in their new authors. The caveat being smaller presses, they have more to lose. They might do a little bit more creative marketing. But generally speaking, most publishers are still going to expect the to do the majority of the work. And then if you fail to do the work, you'll never get a book deal again. Right. So there's some pressure in traditional publishing as well. And it's time consuming. You spend months and months pitching. It's very subjective. I definitely believe an agent is helpful. An agent has the contacts to the publishers. So really there's pros and cons on both side. If you self publish, you're going to spend money up front and all those things. But it's I think easier than ever today to get a Book done.
- [33:42]
B
Yeah, man. I've gone over the pros and cons a million times. And as someone who grew up walking into a bookstore and you see the same publishers over and over and over again, it's really easy to get caught up in the dream of what that looks like. And I know the realities of publishing have changed so dramatically, especially over the last 10 to 15 years. And I think there's a lot that can be done in the self publishing world. I can't say I have a true opinion one way or the other, because I still totally get the appeal of traditional publishing.
- [34:20]
A
And I had the same goal. Right. I was the kid that was writing short stories on the playground. I grew up wanting to be a writer and wanting to see my book on store shelves. But here's the other reality. We believe somewhere around 70% of all writers books are being sold through Amazon. So even 10 years ago, we're not walking into bookstores the way we used to. Books are being sold online, and even if your book makes it to bookstore shelves, if it doesn't sell in 30 to 60 days, they get shipped back to the publisher for a full refund. So there's no other industry I know of, by the way, for anyone selling in retail. Like, if Macy's doesn't sell out of a line of jeans, they don't get to sell send them back to the jean maker. They sell them off to TJ Maxx and Marshalls. In the book industry, the publishers have to issue full refunds for books that don't sell. It's a weird, weird challenge. And I used to own a bookstore, so I know how the back end of all of that works. And I honestly think bookstores are actually the worst place to sell books.
- [35:22]
B
Ooh, wow. Okay. What an opinion. I. I love how full of opinions you are, Stephanie. This has really been so, so incredible. I love how you break down writing into feeling a bit more like a science and a task list that feels doable rather than this overwhelming creative process. Any final thoughts on things we didn't get to share today that you want to make sure people have access to?
- [35:51]
A
Yeah, I mean, I hope it's fun for your listeners and the writing process. I think if it feels like drudgery, you might choose another route, which could be hiring a ghostwriter or working with a book coach. A lot of people benefit from accountability, so there's other ways, and I'm not neither of those things, by the way. I just think if you need that extra help or accountability, you can also audio record and dictate a book and then have a really great editor help you. So there's lots of ways to accomplish it, even if you're not a writer by nature. And if you enjoy the process, I think that comes through and makes the book so much more fun to read and recommend. So the goal for all of us is to write something that the readers want to tell others about. And editors help us do that.
- [36:39]
B
Yeah, absolutely. Now, where can people connect with you, learn from you, access your books that you've previously written? Any other resources you've got? Where can they find you? Online?
- [36:50]
A
Yeah. Thank you. Nonfiction Authors Association.com we also have Nonfiction WritersConference.com this is our 15th year running this event entirely online, and our opening speaker this year is Roxane Gay, who wrote Hunger. She's amazing. So I would love to see you on there. We have a big Facebook presence as well, and I just love working with nonfiction authors. And I write a lot about marketing and publishing and getting your book written. And we have a lot of courses. So it goes on and on and on. But the home base isnonfiction authors association.com Amazing.
- [37:27]
B
If you guys have enjoyed today's episode, I would love for you to take a screenshot, share it over on Instagram, tag me. Let Stephanie know what your biggest takeaway was. I know we both love the opportunity to hear from you. And when your book is written because you listened to today's episode, please send me a copy. I would love to share about it. So thank you guys so much. And if you haven't yet subscribed, please do so. We want to bring on more great guest speakers like Stephanie here today. So thank you so much for being here.
- [38:03]
A
Thank you.
- [38:04]
B
Hey, a few quick favors before you leave. I'd love if you'd share today's episode, send it to a friend who needs to hear it, and post on social. You can show us where you're listening from, your favorite takeaway, or why someone else should listen. Be sure to tag me at Abigail says and ossproject so we can share it. Okay. Second favor, to get podcast updates and all the behind the scenes news from Boss Project. I'd love if you'd join my VIP list. Just head to bossproject.com signup to make sure I have all your contact details. Really love this show. It would mean so much to me if you'd leave a rating and review. It not only helps more listeners find the show, but allows us to bring on quality sponsors so we can keep bringing you this valuable content for free. Thanks so much for listening. Until next time.