← Strategy Hour | Online Marketing for Business Growth
Strategy Hour | Online Marketing for Business Growth
962: Exactly How I’d Grow Your Podcast as a Host with 4.5M+ Downloads
01:01:14
Podcast strategy meets life coaching in this behind-the-scenes session on growing a successful show with guest Azara Krovatin.
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- [00:02]
Abigail Pumphrey
Welcome to the Strategy Hour Podcast brought to you by Boss Project. I'm your host Abigail Pumphrey and I'm dedicated to supporting online businesses. I don't believe in one right way.
- [00:13]
Azara
To build a business.
- [00:14]
Abigail Pumphrey
I'm here to help you build business your way. One that supports not only the life you have, but the life you want. I'm on a personal mission to help you become financially free. I'm taking all the lessons learned as I turned a layoff into a seven figure online business. I'm here to help you prioritize your life every step of the way. Whether you're creating your first digital product, growing an email list, or scaling an already profitable business. Settle in. It's time to talk strategy.
- [00:43]
State Farm
This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Knowing you could be saving money for the things you really want is a great feeling. Talk to a State Farm agent today to learn how you can choose to bundle and save with a personal price plan. Like a good neighborhood, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings and eligibility vary by state.
- [01:08]
Abigail Pumphrey
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- [02:09]
Azara
Want you to really be aware of compassion fatigue. So when we choose an audience that is so stressed, burnout, tired, dealing with outside forces that make their life more complicated that can really weigh on you as a person. I'm trying a whole new format and I cannot wait for you to listen to this one. It is part live coaching, part podcast strategy and I am really dishing the tea on pretty much everything I think about when it comes to having a successful show. I'm sitting down with Azara, who hosts the Mystical Business Coach podcast. And I'm giving her a real time coaching session on how she can grow her show, deepen her impact, and leverage her incredibly unique expertise. Now, whether you're podcasting yourself, considering launching one, or just love seeing the behind the scenes, this conversation is packed with so many actionable insights. Truly. If I were to do a course on how to run a successful podcast, we covered almost everything I would put in that course. So consider this your101. I'm so excited for you to dive in. Azara is blending astrology and business and strategy in a really fun way. And I can't wait to talk to her about how she can translate that magic to her listeners. Hey, Azara, welcome to the Strategy Hour podcast.
- [03:42]
Mystical Business Coach
Hey, Abigail, thank you so much for having me on. Very, very excited to connect with you.
- [03:47]
Azara
I can't wait to dig in. This is definitely a little bit of a different format. And so before we jump into tips and strategies today, I'd love if you could share a little bit about your podcast. What inspired you to start the Mystical Business Coach and who exactly are you speaking to in your episodes?
- [04:06]
Mystical Business Coach
Yeah, great question. So I was inspired to start the podcast because when I became an entrepreneur, I found that as I was exploring the Internet and online communities and even live in person events for motivation, connecting with coaches, all that kind of stuff just to kind of keep myself going. You know, it's so exciting at the beginning, but it's also so hard. And I was finding that I was in a lot of spaces where I, I was connecting with people on an individual level. But as far as motivation, things were kind of falling flat for me. And I realized that motivation comes from a lot of different places. And I am someone who is less motivated by the world of, you know, more kind of traditional aesthetics around business, more traditional approaches and language around business. I'm really, really motivated by what Woo. Like astrology, like tarot. And so lucky for me, as I was going through that experience, I had those tools in my back pocket. I've been using them for a really long time in a completely different context, right. Like outside of the world of entrepreneurship and business. And I started to use them, started to play around with them, and eventually as I started to gain clients, I started to use them with my clients too. And I found that some, some people were not motivated by that at all, but some people were like me. And working with their chart energetics was really something that inspired them to move forward to get that sort of Cosmic momentum going. And so I decided that it sounded like a fun project to start a podcast to start kind of chronicling my thoughts around this and my journey through connecting the dots between astrology and entrepreneurship. And it's been super rewarding so far. Very fun to basically create these systems that combine two things that are really important to me and also to watch the impact that they have on the folks who tune in and also on my clients who've been really cool about supporting me too.
- [06:13]
Azara
Incredible. I want to know more about your vision and goal. Why are you doing? I mean, you talked about why in the sense that you didn't feel connected to the way other people were talking about business. But is there anything beyond that in terms of outcome that you're focused on and what does success look like to you? Because for me, I think it's really important when I'm coaching or providing advice that I have an idea of your end game and your big dreams, even the ones that are a little scary to say out loud.
- [06:47]
Mystical Business Coach
Yeah, totally. So I would say my big dream, my goal, my vision for Mystical Business coach is to grow into something that I can use as a full time business for myself and platform to be able to get people from feeling like there's no way forward. I really help folks who are on the verge of quitting. A lot of us come from more of a corporate background. We come from working day jobs. I spent my entire career up until I started in entrepreneurship. I was working in startups and it was just burnout city exhaustion all around. And I really want to help folks who started their own businesses as a way to embrace what they love, do what drives them and their passions and really help them to keep going when the going gets so tough that you feel like you can't possibly keep moving forward. I would love it to be a full scale business where I'm not only continuing to provide, you know, high ticket coaching services, but I'm also able to develop courses and grow a community around using astrology and other mystical tools to keep going in your business.
- [07:57]
Azara
Okay, so who do you want to reach along the way? And the reason I ask this is I want to get a little clearer on is the person coming to you already in this world, Are they already thinking this way? Are they already into their sign? Are they already into tarot? Or are these people that are like woo adjacent where they're curious and they're interested, but they don't actually know a lot about what these things are, what a rising sign is or whatever, who on the spectrum of knowledge about woo and mystical things are you trying to reach?
- [08:35]
Mystical Business Coach
Right now my content is geared towards people who already have sort of a passing understanding of things like their rising sign. So these are folks who are already aware of their chart placements in a way where when I talk to them, they're pretty easily understanding where I'm going with it. It's not like Astrology 101. Right now, I think there are folks in the landscape who do focus on that, people who hold workshops all the time that really focus on getting people up to speed just in terms of what am I even looking at when I'm looking at a chart? What are any of my placements beyond my sun sign? And right now I'm focused on folks who have moved past that stage and are more curious to dive a little bit deeper. And so I tend to go into quite a lot of depth. And it's something that I've struggled with a little bit because I know that there are so many more people who are just at that curiosity stage where they know their sun sign, they might know their moon sign, and they're curious about what is that deeper level of information I can access. Right now I have fairly limited time, and so being able to focus on just jumping into it and really getting into the details has been helpful in keeping me kind of moving forward and putting out content.
- [09:54]
Azara
Yeah, I don't think there's anything wrong with that. It ultimately really changes my personal advice in terms of how we get into structure and actual podcast naming. So I really love that I have that context. To that end, I want to know, you mentioned a little bit about monetization, but I want to get really specific. Would you want to have the podcast be the sole income source? Do you want it to ultimately sell your other products and coaching services, or what does that makeup look like to you so that we're clear on how we're kind of moving forward?
- [10:39]
Mystical Business Coach
So far I've been focusing on the podcast as what I'm hoping will soon become just one of my, I guess my long form marketing platform. And so I've got the podcast, I've got Instagram, which is more of that kind of short form marketing, content marketing. And then I also. So in terms of my actual product ecosystem, right now I do something called star mapping, which is like one on one coaching where we dig really deep into challenges folks are facing. And I use their chart energetics to help them find paths forward through challenges, define timing for launches, that kind of thing. And eventually I'd like to pad that out a little bit further with asynchronous courses, asynchronous products that people can download. I've got a couple of things in the works. I'd love to do workshops more regularly as I start to scale, and I can kind of shift some of my attention over in that direction. I'm more seeing the podcast as a marketing platform. I haven't thought about productizing it actually at all.
- [11:41]
Azara
Well, it's definitely an approach to consider just fully, transparently. Looking back, I do wish a part of me had focused more on the opportunity to have the podcast be a bigger part of the monetization plan, rather than just a sales tool. But I think that's a really personal choice, and it can grow and evolve over time. There's no right or wrong answer, but you have such a niche topic that I think the consumption of the podcast could end up being really high to the right people. It's obviously not going to be appealing to absolutely everyone, but to the niche audience. I think it's something people will want to come back to again and again, obviously, because the planets keep moving and, like, the world keeps changing. So just keep that in your back pocket as an opportunity and explore that a little bit more. I want to move into your hot seat, and I plan to. Not going to grill you. I'm going to just really kind of go through some of the things that I think are really critical to my growth and kind of give you some guidance on things to focus on that I think will speed up where you want to get to. So the first thing I want to talk about is your core message so you're clear on the kind of person that you want to be talking to, that they already have some base knowledge. They're not going to be confused by some of these terms because there's a lot of terminology that goes into your structure. But it is really important that we get clear on to what end. What is the goal? Like, if someone were to listen consistently, where would they land? And you may not have an answer today. But similar to a course having an outcome, your podcast should similarly have an outcome that gives people an opportunity to come back. Now, the best podcast, the ones that are sticking around the longest, they solve a problem that doesn't go away, that consistently shows up for people in their lives. So do you have any thoughts on what that might be?
- [13:56]
Mystical Business Coach
Yeah. And so as specific as I've gotten with it has just gotten to the point where I know that I want to work with people who are experiencing that Feeling of, maybe it's not worth it. Maybe I should quit my business and go back to working a desk job, working a career, because it's too hard, and I don't feel motivated. I don't feel like the choices that I'm making are really my choices. I don't feel like the structures that I'm creating are really my structures. They're not reflective of who I am and how I feel and my energetics. And so that does feel pretty broad. And I haven't really thought any deeper than that, honestly.
- [14:43]
Azara
Okay, some notes on that specifically, is I want you to really be aware of compassion fatigue. So when we choose an audience that is stressed, burnout, tired, dealing with outside forces that make their life more complicated, that can really weigh on you as a person, I would be mindful. If you want to continue to work with that type of person, you are going to need to get clear on what your boundaries are. I definitely have been in a position where people would come into my DMs and then, like, download their whole life and share their trauma and, like, what's going on. As nice as it is to, like, really have the full background on people as a really empathetic person, it can be really exhausting. And so I encourage you to kind of draw the line as to what that looks like, but also, like, what about it? Like, where are they at? Because, okay, maybe they're questioning if they should go back, but you could target someone that is maybe having those questions, but is still inspired, that is still feeling creative, that is still wants to explore it, but they're just frustrated. I think there's a way to get someone who's still in that place of action and motivation that will make your life a hell of a lot easier, especially if the goal is to monetize them into selling them something. Now, if you want to just, like, purely inspire them and the podcast is the thing that's monetized, then that's not necessarily as critical. That's why someone like Mel Robbins can continue to have these really deep subjects, because she's not necessarily, like, taking their energy on. She is just, like, putting out into the world her thoughts and feelings around psychology and having these guest experts on and things. So keep that in mind and really think through your core message. The next thing I want to talk about is podcast art, which seems like a very arbitrary thing, but this is your billboard. This is the way you catch people's attention. And if we are marketing ourselves, we obviously want more people to listen to the show and so both when someone goes to search it because they've heard about you on another platform, but also if someone is seeing suggested, you know, other podcasts or whatever, we want your art to grab their attention. Now, when I looked at your podcast art, the first thing I noticed is I think it's appeal is to people who are already in kind of that mystical space. So I think to that end, you have nailed that. But some areas I think you can improve is how you can catch their attention. 1 so like what's the scroll stopper? What is the thing that's going to make them go like, wait, what's that? Or it makes them question what they're seeing a little bit. That can be done through color, that can be done through iconography, that can be done through with mystical things on your side. There's all sorts of things you could be doing to imagery, but I would be really thinking about that. And then at the bare minimum, if you change nothing else, I think it is so important that your title is legible at the size of a stamp on a postcard. So if you are on a platform like Canva designing your podcast thumbnail, my suggestion is that you zoom very far out. So you're not working at it when it's up here the size of your head, but you're looking at it the size of a stamp. And if you can't read the title, it's not going to work long term.
- [18:47]
Mystical Business Coach
Yep, yep.
- [18:48]
Azara
So legibility is important. You want. And the reason I say that, if you are already famous and like, your face were enough, yeah, great. But for the majority of us, that's not the thing. And so we instead have to have that constant reminder of who we are. And so if it's really legible, even for your regular listeners, and it's going to be like, oh, that's the name of our podcast. Oh. And then the next time someone says something over here, they're more likely to recommend you by name rather than be like, I listen to this show about astrology. They'll be like, I listen to the name of this show. So I would consider some adjustments there. Now, the last kind of piece on podcast art. My background's in design, so I'm really, I love the opportunity to think about graphic design as part of this exploration. So my suggestion would be to look at what are the top five to 10 podcasts in your space, kind of in that mystical realm. And if ideally they're also touching business, I want you to do like a grid of all their podcast covers and I want you to do one of two things, potentially both, but they're kind of in conflict with each other, so you'll understand what I'm saying in a minute. So if there's a couple shows that are getting a ton of downloads, you know, they're very popular, that people know exactly what they are, that people come back to them again and again. We can look at the design of their podcast art and see what can we take from that. Like, what about this is working? And how can you apply that to what you're doing? It might be the format of how the words are placed on the screen. It could be some of the colors that are used. It could be how a photo is shot. There's all those things. And then, well, you're doing that because you want to be assimilated with the top of the industry. But kind of counter to that a little bit is how can you stand out? So if you were to look at all 10, what would make you the, like, one you can't ignore? So if everyone's using blacks and browns, if you used neon purple, are you gonna stand out a lot more? I mean, the answer is probably yes. Obviously, it impacts your brand in other areas, so you want to keep that in mind. You don't want to go super far off from where you're at, but playing with that will make a big difference, and you getting new listeners.
- [21:29]
Mystical Business Coach
Awesome. I love that idea. Yeah, I can do that very quickly because, of course, I follow all of those folks on their podcasts. So, yeah, that's great.
- [21:37]
Azara
Screenshots will be your friend. Load them all up, look at them, study them, reverse engineer them. There's opportunities there. Okay. The next thing I want to talk about is crafting compelling episodes. I want to talk a little bit about structure, and I had an opportunity to listen to one of your episodes, and I thought it was really good in terms of the mic quality was great. You're a very clear speaker. You are showing up confidently. I don't have any notes for how you're speaking.
- [22:15]
Mystical Business Coach
Awesome.
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Azara
I think something that it could use is a little more setup as to what someone could anticipate.
- [22:25]
Mystical Business Coach
Mm.
- [22:26]
Azara
So if I'm doing a solo episode, I will do the intro and then just, like, immediately go into the topic. But for you, I think really getting clear insight on, like, what are the takeaways that someone's gonna get from this, and you're not. The intro is not meant to be a bulleted list of, like, what they're gonna learn. It is a bulleted list of curiosity that gets them to stay. So you want it to be like, I want the answer to that, or that sounds cool, but I need to know versus people will often give away what's going to happen far too soon. And essentially they give their Cliff Notes of the whole show in the first 30 seconds, which makes listening to the whole show irrelevant. And so this needs to be not the Cliff Notes. It's the curiosity opportunity to get people to keep listening and then you can get into your actual show. Now, there's a million ways in terms of format for how a show is structured. I think in reality, you know, you're kind of doing the simplest form where it's just like talking and you ultimately kind of wrap up. But if you want to add more structure in, you can. I think there's definitely the trend of having like specific segments and stuff like that is definitely not as popular as it was even a couple of years ago. So I don't necessarily have a ton of edits to that. But I do want you thinking about if I'm just flowing, which is fine. If my goal is to sell someone my stuff, how do I naturally include that in the content? So not just an ad break to your own thing, but the topics being tied to a specific offer. You could say something about a certain topic and you're like, if you want to learn even more, go even more in depth. I have more on and then insert a URL. I always speak the URLs out loud and I try to send somewhere super specific. So I will do. I call them pretty links. But I just try to make it as simple as possible for someone to land there. So rather than saying nameofwebsite.com, go there and find it. They're less likely to follow through on that. Instead of you going to YourName.com one keyword, think of it as the same kind of concept as the like commenting a keyword on Instagram to get the mini chat thing. Like it needs to be something you could use again and again. You're gonna remember it. But also is fast to type in. So trying to keep it to one word. Ideally you could do two words, but then there's always the question is, is there a dash? And like, you know, it just gets harder to explain the actual title. So one word is usually the easiest for that. And then you don't have to be super consistent. But if you're going to get consistent listeners, I would be mindful that your episode lengths are similar. They don't have to like Wrap up at the exact same time. But I don't think I would start with a bunch of different times. Now, I didn't look at your timestamps too closely to be able to notice, but some people will do like a shorter 15 minute episode and then they'll have a 45 minute and an hour and whatever. And I think that works when you start to have a larger audience. Not that it needs to be a huge audience, but you have people that are consistently listening, they're more likely to consume the longer stuff. But the 15 to 25 minute range, they're more. A new listener is more likely to like dive in and get a taste of who you are. And if they like that, then they would listen to the longer stuff. But yeah, I would think about your episode length.
- [26:26]
Mystical Business Coach
Yeah, I'm trying to shorten my episodes right now because I do talk off the cuff and I talk about all our stories and I can end up rambling because it's all so interesting to me. Trying to get it down to like 30, 35 minutes.
- [26:39]
Azara
Yeah.
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Mystical Business Coach
Absolute max. Yeah. Still a little variable though.
- [26:43]
Azara
I think that's a good target range. If you're gonna have a subject that you go deeper on, I actually think that's an opportunity for you to split it up into multiple episodes. So you can consider like miniseries.
- [26:56]
Mystical Business Coach
Oh, that's a cool idea.
- [26:57]
Azara
And use that as an opportunity to get people to come back so you can talk about the subject. You can give them the curiosity to listen. And then towards the end of the episode, you're gonna be like, check out part two when it drops blank and like give them a teaser of what's coming. So they're like, oh, I have to follow and subscribe. I have to like set an alarm. I wanna listen to the next thing. So miniseries, I think, can be really great tools. I've done them both back to back where it's like part one, two, three, four or just part one, two, Usually minor four or two parts. I don't know. That's arbitrary. But I've also done it where I have guest episodes in between, so they're more spaced out, so they have to come back. But I don't necessarily think there's a right or wrong thing. You can go both ways.
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Mystical Business Coach
Awesome. That's a very cool idea. Yeah.
- [27:49]
Azara
So I wanted to talk a minute about visibility and audience growth.
- [27:55]
Mystical Business Coach
Awesome. That's where my biggest questions are. Great.
- [27:59]
Azara
So when we're talking about podcasts, podcasts are ultimately, when we're selling our own goods and services, podcasts are our best nurture opportunity. It is one of the few places that you can capture someone's attention for a solid 35 minutes. I don't know very many people who start a podcast who don't finish a podcast. Not that it's. I feel like that's becoming more common than it used to be. People used to be die hard about finishing the whole thing. I. I do think that's not as true as it was. However, the consumption of content for a podcast listener, they're going to get to know you faster, they're going to trust you faster, they're going to be more confident in your ability to help them faster. It is a vehicle to move them closer to the sale, but we have to get them there. And I think there's a misconception that podcasting in its own right has visibility opportunities built in. That's really only true the week you launch. If you have an audience that you can get a bunch of downloads all at the same time and rank and have people notice you. If you already have a podcast that's out there and it didn't rank the week you launched it, you're far less likely to get kind of organic mentions within the app for, like, related episodes. So then it becomes on you to push traffic to your podcast. You're going to want to use leverage to, like, get them there. So if you're doing solo episodes, your biggest leverage is the curiosity stuff that you're putting at the beginning of your episode. So you're not going to tell them what you're covering. You're going to tell them what they need to be curious about that you're covering. So you're always selling the curiosity, you're not selling the contents. The contents is what they consume, and you can be posting on any platform. But I do think the fastest way to growth is leveraging other people's audiences. And so this can be done one of two ways. And it kind of depends on how you want to do your show. But if you decide, yes, I'm willing to have guests on and I can do interviews, there's a lot of opportunity to borrow the person's audience and get their attention and get noticed by them. There's like a line here. So a lot of people assume getting the biggest name in whatever industry is the best choice. And that's not always true because the biggest name is busy and, like, they have a lot on their plate. And so if you share it, even if you tag them, they're less likely to accept the collaboration post. They're less likely to reshare it. They're less likely to send their own email about it. When there's like a huge scale difference, you're just going to see a lot less likelihood of them kind of pushing you forward. And so I think the fastest way to scale is actually people that are almost peers. So, like, they have a similar size audience. Maybe you have some overlap on the kinds of things you talk about, but you're ultimately selling non competing products. That's your ideal person to have on the show. Because when you go to share them, they're far more likely to accept the thing but also be excited about sharing it with their people. If you have a personal relationship, that helps a lot. And then if you want people to like really share it. Having fans of the show on your podcast actually tends to get the most, I wouldn't say the most traction, but the most personal shares from whoever you have on there. I do think balancing it out, the peer level people tend to be the most worth your time. But we can still leverage other people's audiences even if we don't have them on our show. And so similar to how you might see someone on LinkedIn tag, you know, the 10 things I learned from so and so. And they're like tagging the person and it's ending up on other people's feeds because they follow that other person. The same is kind of true for episode titles if the person you're talking about is recognizable. So it could be your take on a person, your take on their content, your take on a popular topic that's specific to a person that people would associate with that person. Because then when you go to share it, you can tag that person with the hope of catching their attention. So a great example of this, my friend Jay Clouse over at Creator Science, his podcast he recently had on a social strategist. And it'd be really easy to be like, he's just, he's just a social strategist. Well, he is, but he was responsible for helping grow Gary Vee's platform. And then he ultimately went over to Hermosi's platform and helped him grow by millions. And so, but nobody would know this guy's name. Jay leveraged who the guy is connected to. Not necessarily his name, but the guy who's connected to in all of his marketing of the episode. And it went crazy because there was so much depth and breadth to what they were talking about in the actual content. That was like the behind the scenes that really got people excited. Like they were getting an inside look at things because the bigger someone is usually the less connected to what's going out they are. So I don't know if that sparks anything for you.
- [34:12]
Mystical Business Coach
That's very cool. I definitely had never thought about it that way.
- [34:16]
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- [34:59]
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- [35:28]
Abigail Pumphrey
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- [35:54]
Azara
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- [36:09]
Mystical Business Coach
It's so interesting because my way of thinking about a podcast, I can tell just by talking to you, is very much from the perspective of a consumer of podcasts, someone who likes to like, check them out and listen and that sort of thing. And I have not really thought about many of the opportunities for leveraging the same kinds of tools that you would use on other platforms. Like, that's giving me a lot to chew on and think about right now, especially as I'm shifting into a Mode where I'm starting to have a little bit more time to play around. So I am definitely going to be experimenting with talking about other folks who are talking about stuff that I'm excited about, making sure that when I'm posting about the podcast, I'm tagging people. I've had experience before with having posts go viral because I've tagged someone who is in a similar space and who other people are really excited about. This is in a different context, but yeah, starting to leverage some of those tools. That sounds like a really fun strategy to get into. Yeah.
- [37:07]
Azara
Because you get to borrow their credibility and that's a really good opportunity for trust by association, especially if you can hit the right person.
- [37:19]
Mystical Business Coach
Yeah.
- [37:20]
Azara
So definitely think about what that can look like. Play with different formats and you may like a certain one better than another. So I would say don't be married to, you know, having guests versus talking about other people versus don't say, this is now what I'm doing with the show. You need to try a bunch of things and then see what you resonate with. And, you know, occasionally you might get a wild hair to do something different and do that. Don't feel so married to it forever. To the point of visibility, I think it's important to talk about titles and descriptions. So your episode titles and the descriptions of your episodes are both searchable, not just on the podcast platforms themselves, but on the worldwide web. So using things that are search optimized is really helpful. Combining that with curiosity or what I call sex appeal can really help that go even further. So, for example, if I were doing an episode on growing an email list, using email or email list in the actual title would be really essential. But if I did a podcast, how to grow an email list, I promise you that podcast is not going to perform well. But if I say how I grew my email list by 10,000 subscribers in the last six months, all of a sudden everyone's freaking downloading the list because their curiosity is through the roof and they're really interested in, like, how to do that. Yeah, exactly. Right. I'm confident. I know it would work. And so the sex appeal can be results driven. It can be results driven for yourself or for clients, but it can also just be like, genuinely interest or something that people are, like, caught off guard by. Or I mean, think about how you consume content. Like, if you were to scroll through and look at the stuff you've downloaded, why did you download it? What in the title made you think, ooh, I wonder, what was that? And like, how can you replicate that same feeling? So some of my best performing podcasts have been, like, answering questions that are kind of outside of my area of expertise but are just genuinely interesting. So I did an episode with my spouse on him not having an internal monologue. And that episode has been. It's our biggest amount of hits on our website. By thousands, by lots.
- [40:15]
Mystical Business Coach
I'm gonna go find it. That's fascinating.
- [40:18]
Azara
Obviously, that is going to attract people that aren't just my ideal client. And so you have to be mindful that the, like, more sexy or more, you know, like, curiosity inducing, the, like, further away you're going to get from your ideal client. You kind of want to be mindful of that boundary if you continue to stay focused on selling your own stuff. But if your goal is downloads and you're going to have sponsors and, like, other people on the show, like, you're selling other things besides your own stuff, you can get a little more broad and a little more ridiculous with your titles, for lack of a better way to describe it. Sometimes it's like writing a caption or a headline for a gossip magazine. You just really have to get people to go, okay, shit, I have. I like, I have to crack it open.
- [41:12]
Mystical Business Coach
Right? Yeah.
- [41:14]
Azara
So. And then combine that with. If you had said, I want to reach people that are just curious about astrology, I would use less terminology in your titles. If you are into the, like, you know, attracting the people that are already here, obviously using that in the title works. I wouldn't use the terminology at the beginning, though. I would try to, like, here, let me pull up your episodes because it's going to drive me crazy if I don't articulate this appropriately. Okay, so some of your recent episodes is like Saturn and Aries, Boldness with a Blueprint and Weekly Business Horoscope, the Sun in Gemini and Weekly Biz Horoscope. So Weekly Biz Horoscope is obviously a format that you're doing your episodes in. I'd be curious about ways that that could be altered. So, like, you could still have Weekly Biz Horoscope, and I would potentially even put that at the beginning. Okay, but what does the sun in Gemini do? What does it unlock? What does it create? And how can you use that as curiosity to get them to open it? You could still have all of that in it, but I feel like it's missing the curiosity piece.
- [42:36]
Mystical Business Coach
I think you're right in that that's probably the case for a lot of the titles, although it is making me realize that there have been a couple of titles that have to episodes that have had a higher download rate. And one of them was something like, does astrology even help in business at all? And I think I said something like, it depends. And then I think that was enticing people to try to get the answer or why does it depend? That's making a lot of sense to me. That's making a lot of sense.
- [43:04]
Azara
Yeah. And I would highly recommend you look at your downloads on a regular basis and look at what are people attracted to, because it will inform what you do more of, whether that's repeating titles or ultimately you could do the exact same episode six months from now, stealing a lot of the same framework, you're going to have a different take. I've even had full replays where, like, I didn't have time, but I replayed an episode from six months ago because it was the most downloaded. And I might put greatest hits on the front end or do like a little intro to it in the actual episode itself. But don't be afraid to leverage what's already there. Well, obviously I have so much to say, and I want to give you time to ask me questions. So with that, I'm going to turn the floor over to you. Anything I can help with.
- [44:06]
Mystical Business Coach
Amazing. Well, first of all, thank you so much. That was so helpful in terms of just getting a list going for me of things to start thinking about a little bit more thoughtfully or carefully as I start to move things forward. But also just in terms of thinking about what a podcast is as a tool, what is its utility, and how can I leverage that. I really haven't thought about that very carefully yet, so that is really awesome for me to start being able to dig into. I have a couple of questions, and one of them is about guesting. And so I have already recorded a couple of episodes with friends of mine, and it was more of a just wanting to kind of get into the practice and kind of see how it felt rather than a specific strategic move. Because these are not folks who are within the mystical business space. These are people who I've worked with as colleagues and then one of whom is a client of mine. And so when we talk about guesting, I'm curious about exploring the ways that I can set up having a guest on my podcast to really deeply entice people into my product ecosystem. And so what I did with one of the recent episodes I recorded, haven't released it yet, is I worked with a client who I've made a star map for, and we spent Some time really digging into a challenge that she's facing right now and then using the placements in her chart to talk about how to move through that as well as some upcoming astrology, that's going to be helpful. I'm curious to hear your thoughts about that and about putting essentially my client process in a podcast format and getting it out there. Some part of me is hesitating a little bit. I'm not 100% sure why. Really curious to hear your thoughts.
- [45:47]
Azara
So first things first. Never feel like you have to hold something back ever, ever. You can give away the whole house. You. You can, every secret, every strategy, every everything, and people will still buy from you. I think there's this misconception that if, like, I go through my whole process, that someone could just rip off my process and go do their own thing and never work with me. But if you are open and sharing what that's like, it really gives people a preview into how you work and how you operate and they can start to see themselves in that seat and what it would be like to work with you. And so I do think having clients on your podcast makes so much sense.
- [46:36]
Mystical Business Coach
Cool.
- [46:36]
Azara
Whether you coach them, live on it, or you're just kind of recapping their experience where you're talking about what the process was like and the transformation, like, maybe you do a follow up six months after you work together, like, what did change as a result of working with you? I think all of that is really helpful. I wouldn't worry about what it's giving away. Ultimately. If someone wanted to go learn everything I've ever taught, now am I giving absolutely everything away on the podcast? Probably not. Like, there's so many nuanced things that I put in trainings and courses and whatever. But if they wanted, like the overarching of pretty much every topic I talk about, you're going to get a good chunk of it on the podcast. The reason someone decides to work with me or buy one of my courses is because they want the roadmap. They want to get the fastest path with the least resistance. And so, sure, there's plenty of people you could stock and reverse engineer and all the things, but those aren't your ideal clients anyway. So I wouldn't worry about that. I would open, openly, do that. If you're nervous about doing too much of the process out loud, you know, maybe you just take one piece to the podcast or you again, talk, do the recap after the fact where you're not like, in it with them. But I do Think you being in it with them is still really cool and interesting.
- [48:07]
Mystical Business Coach
Awesome. I think that makes a ton of sense to me. And I specifically know the part of the process that feels like the best fit for the podcast and kind of the most juicy and interesting, which is that initial kind of dive into the placements and what they mean, and hearing my clients react to that is really fun and exciting. So, yeah, I think that's cool. I'm going to explore that a little bit more deeply. Awesome. Thank you. And so then I have another question about visibility. And so thank you so much for your feedback around how to structure my podcast episodes, thinking of them more as content that functions as marketing. And I guess I'm curious also about how best to leverage the other platform that I'm using, Instagram specifically, in order to drum up some attention. And I'm definitely going to be using your advice around featuring information or hot takes on the conversations that are going on, and some of the folks who I follow who already have big followings, making sure to tag them, that sort of thing. But I'm also curious, if you were like starting from scratch and you had all of your knowledge but none of your connections, what would you do as you were getting your podcast rolling?
- [49:24]
Azara
Yeah, so I have experimented with a bunch of different formats and honestly I suggest you do the same because what works for you is not necessarily going to be what works for me. So. So I would plan to share your episode a number of different ways. So I would try. One way might be a carousel post where you're kind of talking about the topic. Maybe you're kind of giving them the high level overview, but if they want the in depth and the juicy stuff, you're giving them enough of that interest and curiosity that they want to go listen and kind of finish that conversation. Similarly, you could do a one sided hook. And so what I mean by that is like using B roll of yourself with a hook. And honestly, if your title is good enough for the podcast, sometimes the title can be the hook itself and then you're giving them a little details. Usually all the stuff you mentioned in your intro anyway just like formatted differently and then you're kind of setting them off to go listen. When you don't necessarily have a group of people that already trust you. Shorter reels are gonna perform better. However, for the most engagement reels between 30 and 48 seconds or so tend to give people like just enough that they're interested, but not so much that they're like scrolling too soon. And so how I would go about doing that one. Record the video when you're doing the podcast anyway. And then my process as of late, this is a very new to me process, but it's really working and so I'm excited about doing it more is I am taking my podcast and downloading the audio or video file doesn't really matter. And then loading it to a transcription service. I use a free transcriber. It only works up to the first 30 minutes, but that's typically enough. And I download whatever version allows me to have timestamps where it's like the transcription with timestamps. And then I'm uploading it to Chat GPT and I'm saying, review this transcript. I want you to pull out like the most quotable, the most shareable, the most interesting, the biggest hot takes. Like what's the thing that's gonna perform the best? And it'll usually pull out some really solid options. It's not gonna be perfect on the timestamp, but it's gonna give you like close enough that you can get to it pretty quickly. Instead of re listening to the whole episode to try to figure out where it was and then just clip it down and share it kind of raw with just the captions on top. I think it will work best if what you're saying in that clip is countercultural, like a hot take almost. So the other day I shared one that was of a guest again, Jay Clouse, just happened to be who I'm talking about today, apparently. And he was talking about his plan to not really do social. And obviously people are like, well, if I can have a business without social, sign me up. And so it was a very listened to clip clip that really got people curious to go listen to the whole thing. And then the other one that did well the other day was really relatable. It was like, I feel that. I feel so heard, I feel so understood. I feel less alone. If you can give people that feeling by just like a little snippet, that'll make a really big difference on them. Saving or sharing your content.
- [53:14]
Mystical Business Coach
Awesome. That is. That's super validating to hear because these are directions that I'm playing with a little bit. Starting to think about going more deeply, sharing those clips from the podcast, making sure that I'm actually taking video, which has changed my flow a little bit. But it's only been for the past few episodes. But I think it is going to be a lot better of a way to just get people sharing, get people feeling like they know me. A little bit better getting that extra engagement.
- [53:40]
Azara
Some people are going to be like, I've shared clips before and it's not working. And not every clip is going to perform the best. And so you have to be really mindful of what is the first three to five words coming out of your mouth. Like, if you're not immediately catching someone's attention, like, they already scrolled by. And so it's just as much about the hook and the curiosity building as it is anything else. But people are. They'll share a clip and it'll, like, pause. Like, it'll be like, so I was. And then they, like, lose themselves. And, like, there's gaps in the air quotes. And so, like, people scroll when there's dead air. So, like, making sure there's no daredevil in the beginning. If you're closing any gaps where you're thinking in between things, that'll make a really big difference. Even if you leave the gap strategically on the podcast, taking it out for social is really important.
- [54:35]
Mystical Business Coach
Yep. That makes a ton of sense. And if we have time, I have one last question that I wanted to ask you. Okay, so you have already been so gracious as to share some advice around how to position my podcast on LinkedIn. LinkedIn is a platform that I've used for forever, just to be a place where it's like, here's my career. But I'm very new to thinking about LinkedIn as a potential space for marketing for and for making those kinds of relationships and connections. And that's what it's all about.
- [55:05]
Azara
Right.
- [55:05]
Mystical Business Coach
And I'm ready to kind of dive in a little bit deeper. And so I did set up a very big, basic page for my podcast. I still have to kind of zhuzh it up and add images and stuff, but I'm curious if you have any broader suggestions, tips, strategies around how to use LinkedIn as a platform for marketing a podcast.
- [55:24]
Azara
Yeah. So a couple of tips right off the bat. One, make sure I haven't checked your LinkedIn, but make sure that you've turned on the default that follow over Connect is the default. So. So if someone goes to your page, that someone is far more likely to hit follow than connect because it just feels less personal. So I would make sure that default is on. I would also make the banner at the top of your page be very clear as to how you help or assist people. So making that who it's for and what you do in the banner so that if someone clicks over to your page, like, oh, that's me Follow the couple line bio. People usually only see a preview of the first, I don't know, three to five words. If you look at your feed enough, you're going to notice. You either want to have someone say, oh, that's me, or I'm impressed. Like you're giving something that's credibility worthy or they're just like curious. So anything that's going to help them click over to your page is going to be the most helpful. And I by no means consider myself an expert at this. I'm still very like new and raw to it, but I think those things make a really big difference. And then the last one, and perhaps the most important is don't share from your podcast page. Share from your page. Okay. You need to be posting as you and you can say new episode on and then tag your your podcast page. Cause that will then have the link and stuff but don't post it as the page. I tried that for a very long time and was not getting very many views. And just simply switching that content over to my personal page made a rapid and vastly different experience.
- [57:20]
Mystical Business Coach
Wow. Wow. That's really good to know. That's really good to know. And so that you would say that that's good advice in general for any business page.
- [57:29]
Azara
Just any business page. I think that's good advice in general is share as you. If you were a big business, obviously things are different, but ultimately you're a personal brand. So yeah, people want to buy from a person, not a brand anyway. And it makes a really big difference to be you.
- [57:47]
Mystical Business Coach
Yeah, that makes so much sense. Wow. Thank you. Oh, I just. I feel like I was just like showered in in gems and like nuggets of information. This has been amazing.
- [57:58]
Azara
Well, I had a ton of fun. This is obviously really out of the norm for structure on the podcast, but I loved it. So I'd love to hear from the audience. If you enjoyed today's episode, kind of doing a deep dive on strategy over a specific topic. I would love to hear your feedback. Or if there's other topics you'd love to see me explore and coach someone else on, definitely reach out over on Instagram or LinkedIn and let me know kind of what you have in mind. I would love to hear from you. Now if people want to connect with you and go listen to your podcast and find you online. Where should we send them?
- [58:37]
Mystical Business Coach
Yeah, and so my podcast is called the Mystical Business Coach Podcast and I'm on Instagram. Mystical Business Coach, very active on Instagram. Instagram, you can come and Check stuff out. DM me. I'm there all the time and my website is mysticalbusinesscoach.com so if you want to learn more about me and how I connect and support clients, you can head over there. But yeah, just check out my Instagram, check out my podcast. It's super fun and get into some cosmic business energy.
- [59:07]
Azara
Amazing. I loved it. Such a good episode. I hope you guys loved it as much as I did. Thanks for tuning in and I'll see you in the next episode.
- [59:16]
Abigail Pumphrey
Hey, a few quick favors before you leave. I'd love if you'd share today's episode, send it to a friend who needs to hear it and post on social. You can show us where you're listening from, your favorite takeaway or why someone else should listen. Be sure to tag me, Abigail says and ossproject so we can share it.
- [59:33]
Azara
Okay.
- [59:33]
Abigail Pumphrey
Second favor to get podcast updates and all the behind the scenes news from Boss Project, I'd love if you'd join my VIP list. Just head to bossproject.com signup to make sure I have all your contact details. Really love this show. It would mean so much to me if you'd leave a rating and review. It not only helps more listeners find the show, but allows us to bring on quality sponsors so we can keep bringing you this valuable content for free. Thanks so much for listening.
- [60:00]
Azara
Until next time.