Strategy Hour | Episode 972: The Future of Search: SEO vs LLM Optimization with Sam Dunning
Release Date: July 17, 2025
Introduction
In Episode 972 of the Strategy Hour podcast, host Abagail Pumphrey engages in a deep dive conversation with Sam Dunning, founder of Breaking B2B and host of the same-named podcast. The discussion centers on the evolving landscape of search engine optimization (SEO) amidst the rapid advancements in artificial intelligence (AI) and large language models (LLMs). This episode is essential listening for entrepreneurs, marketers, and digital strategists aiming to navigate the future of online marketing.
Guest Background
Sam Dunning brings over 14 years of experience in B2B marketing and SEO. His journey began in retail, where he quickly transitioned to the digital realm after discovering his passion for web development and marketing. As a co-owner of a web agency, Sam honed his skills in various facets of digital marketing before founding Breaking B2B 16 months ago. His expertise lies in driving leads and revenue through strategic SEO tailored for tech and service companies.
Sam Dunning [04:04]: "I've worked on SEO campaigns where it's taken seven to eight months to get one page published. So speed is your absolute advantage."
The Evolution of SEO
Sam and Abagail discuss the traditional foundations of SEO, emphasizing its role in driving organic traffic and generating leads. They explore how SEO strategies have historically relied on content volume, keyword optimization, and backlink acquisition to improve search rankings.
Abagail Pumphrey [09:01]: "I think it's so funny how most people assume that experts just come out of the woodwork, but it's just a good reminder that experts are born out of doing the work enough times in a row that you learn about the topic."
The Impact of AI and LLMs on Search
A significant portion of the conversation delves into how AI and LLMs, such as Google's AI mode and ChatGPT, are transforming search behaviors. Sam predicts that in the near future, AI-generated search results will dominate, leading to a decline in traditional click-through rates to external websites.
Sam Dunning [19:07]: "Everything on platform without having to click through to an external website. Websites are seeing it already. A lot of traffic is declining."
They explore the concept of "zero-click" searches, where users receive comprehensive answers directly within search results, reducing the need to visit external sites.
Content Strategies for Modern SEO
The conversation pivots to effective content strategies in the era of AI-driven search. Sam introduces the idea of focusing on money keywords—keywords that attract high-intent, sales-ready traffic. He emphasizes the importance of creating content that aligns with buyer intent rather than solely aiming for high traffic volumes.
Sam Dunning [14:17]: "Best LinkedIn Ads Agency or Best LinkedIn B2B Social Company or something like that. It's a lot more high sales intent."
Abagail adds that while quantity was paramount in traditional SEO, the quality and relevance of content are becoming increasingly crucial to resonate with target audiences.
Identifying and Utilizing Money Keywords
Sam outlines a practical framework for identifying money keywords using a "money keyword matrix," which includes:
- Descriptive Terms: Various ways prospects might describe your offer.
- Target Industries: Specific industries that benefit most from your services.
- Competitor Analysis: Identifying key competitors mentioned by prospects.
- Client Pain Points: Understanding the specific challenges your ideal clients face.
This structured approach helps in crafting long-tail keywords that, although may have lower search volumes, possess higher conversion potential due to their specificity.
Sam Dunning [15:33]: "What's a dream client going to look for when they need our offer? I basically have this money keyword matrix."
Backlinks vs. Brand Mentions
The discussion shifts to the evolving role of backlinks in SEO. Traditionally, backlinks have been a cornerstone of SEO strategies, signifying a website's authority. However, with the rise of LLMs, brand mentions are becoming equally, if not more, important.
Sam Dunning [37:39]: "Backlinks, some hate them, some think they're dead, some beg for them, some steal for them, some pay for them."
Sam explains that while backlinks remain valuable for traditional SEO, brand mentions are crucial for LLM-generated search results. He suggests strategies like podcasting and earned media to organically gain brand mentions, which can enhance visibility in AI-driven search environments.
Practical Strategies for SEO in the AI Era
Sam shares actionable strategies to adapt to the changing SEO landscape:
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Listicle Outreach: Creating and promoting listicles that feature your business can earn valuable brand mentions.
Sam Dunning [29:04]: "...build your own list on your website, own your own article that reviews those. By all means put yourself at the top..."
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Content Speed and Volume: Emphasizing the importance of publishing content quickly and consistently to outpace slower-moving competitors.
Sam Dunning [31:39]: "Speed is your absolute advantage. This is how you can chip away at those giant competitors that move slow."
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Quality Over Quantity with a Human Touch: While maintaining content volume, ensuring that each piece resonates with the target audience by addressing their specific needs and incorporating unique insights.
Sam Dunning [34:40]: "If you don't resonate with your dream client, AKA their problems, their goals, their jobs to be done, and that starts with customer research."
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Leveraging Existing Backlinks: Utilizing past PR efforts and existing backlinks by reaching out to authors for updates or additional links.
Sam Dunning [39:59]: "...reach out to that author of the article and just say thanks very much for including us... Could you just make a small tweak to this page and link to this keyword and page..."
Conclusion and Final Thoughts
As the conversation wraps up, both Sam and Abagail acknowledge that the future of SEO lies in balancing traditional strategies with new approaches driven by AI and LLMs. They stress the importance of adaptability, continuous learning, and maintaining a strong brand presence to thrive in the evolving digital landscape.
Abagail Pumphrey [41:40]: "...there needs to be a whole part 2 on LLM specifically, especially as we learn more, because I think there's a lot that is yet to be discovered."
Sam encourages listeners to stay proactive in their SEO strategies, leveraging both content creation and brand-building tactics to navigate the AI-dominated future of search.
Connect with Sam Dunning
- Website: breakingB2B.com
- Podcast: Breaking B2B
- LinkedIn: Sam Dunning
Key Takeaways
- Adapt SEO Strategies: Embrace AI and LLM advancements by focusing on brand mentions and high-intent keywords.
- Consistency is Crucial: Regular, speed-focused content publication can outpace competitors.
- Quality with a Human Touch: Enhance content relevance and engagement by addressing specific client needs and incorporating unique insights.
- Leverage Backlinks and Brand Mentions: Continue to value backlinks while also prioritizing brand mentions for LLM-driven search visibility.
This episode provides invaluable insights into the future of search and SEO, equipping listeners with strategies to stay ahead in a rapidly changing digital environment.