← Strategy Hour | Online Marketing for Business Growth
Strategy Hour | Online Marketing for Business Growth
985: Stop Chasing & Get More of the Life You Want Today with Ryann Gillen
00:52:00
What if success isn’t about money at all? In this conversation with Ryann Gillen, we explore redefining success, breaking subconscious patterns, and building a business that actually feels good.
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- [00:00]
Ryan Gillen
I want to be the type of person that money never dictates my decisions. Cool. Okay. So what does that feel like? Well, that feels like freedom. That feels like safety. That feels like security. That feels like clarity. That feels like good ideas. Awesome.
- [00:15]
Abigail Pumphrey
Welcome to the Strategy Hour podcast brought to you by Boss Project. I'm your host Abigail Pumphrey, and I'm dedicated to supporting online businesses. I don't believe in one right way to build a business. I'm here to help you build business your way, one that supports not only the life you have, but the life you want. I'm on a personal mission to help you become financially free. I'm taking all the lessons learned as I turned a layop into a seven figure online business. I'm here to help you prioritize your life every step of the way. Whether you're creating your first digital product, growing an email list, or scaling an already profitable business. Settle in. It's time to talk strategy.
- [00:56]
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- [01:52]
Abigail Pumphrey
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- [04:20]
Ryan Gillen
Hello. Hello. I'm so excited to be here. Thanks for inviting me.
- [04:23]
Abigail Pumphrey
I know this is the energy that you all need right now and you don't even know it yet. Ryan has been so speaking truth over me every time I open the TikTok app. I have met Ryan in real life, so I am a privileged person who has enjoyed her presence over coffee. But I love her pep talks. They're always so full of energy and you always say something that I just like think about for the next three days and can't quite stop thinking about. And there was one particular thing that came up the other day that I we're going to dive into. But before we get into what that particular story was, I'd love for you to catch the room up. How did you end up in the like self development business space? What got you here?
- [05:09]
Ryan Gillen
Yes. Abigail, I'm so Excited. This is going to be so fun. So I had a very traditional corporate career. So I had a 15 year corporate career. I got into entrepreneurship back in 2019, 2018. I often say 2018 was when the business was born. 2019 was when it made its first dollars. So it's like, it just depends on what you clarify. But started back then, and I actually started teaching sales to entrepreneurs. Like, that's how I started. I came from an extremely traditional sales background. A very stereotypical, just follow the process, right? Like, came from a very corporate background. Very, like, if you just do these five steps, it will work, right? So obviously when I became an entrepreneur, that's what I started doing. I was like, just follow my five steps and they will work for you. And it was actually when my first program that I launched back in 2019, I put about 200 women in it over about a year and a half, two years. And I was so frustrated with, like, why are they not all getting it right? Why do some of them go and win and some of them do nothing? And some of them able to make, you know, they make their money back, right? Like, they're doing the work, but they're not thriving. And of course, at first, I took it personal. I was like, it must be terrible. I don't know what I'm doing. But then I went on my own personal development journey through what? I think entrepreneurship doesn't give us a choice. And you probably attest to that because I know you're on your journey too. Of like, who am I? What do I want out of life? Why do I keep recreating these scenarios? And it took me down my own personal development path. I had no intention of bringing it into my business. It was not something I had a desire to teach. But then the more that I learned it, I started to get mad. I was like, why didn't anybody teach me this? When I started selling radio advertising when I was 21 years old, like, I could have made the company so much more money if somebody would have taught me this stuff, right? And it came from this, like, somebody needs to teach people this. Somebody needs to teach women this, right? And you know how it is when you put an entrepreneur, an idea in an entrepreneur's brain with like, somebody should do this, it eventually, you know, became clearer and clearer and clearer that that was my path. And what I mean by my path is like, my heart has always been about putting more money and more power in the hands of women. I said that from the moment I started teaching sales on the Internet. In 2019. What I didn't know was that sales wasn't actually the path and that this is my path. Because I think women in business are incredible. I think as women we have huge talents and we're so good at people and business and ideas and organization. And because business is built in a primarily male and masculine paradigm, we tend to think there's no place for me or I don't fit in or this isn't for me. And especially for powerful women who have won in their corporate careers in a very traditional sense. They like, we all want it. You know, you had said something before we hit record about a lot of the women in your community are in this like mid career reinvention stage. It's because the average age of an awakening in women is between the ages of 38 and 42. That's what winds up happening statistically is we're like, wait a second, this doesn't quite feel the way that I thought that it would. Right. Like this doesn't look right. Tends to happen around that point in our careers and in our lives. And it could be hormones, it could be seasons of lives. Lord, who knows, right? There's a lot of data out there. But so that kind of led me to this path. And so I work with women who are either in business or corporate careers. I actually still have quite a few clients that are in corporate careers, which has been really cool because that's been different for me on like, why, why do I keep achieving really cool stuff? And it still just never feels like enough. And so that's where I've landed and it's been so much fun.
- [08:16]
Abigail Pumphrey
I think it's interesting that both of our kind of trajectories started in that sales space because even though I was never trained in sales, sales is always what I felt like I excelled in. And so I started talking about pricing strategy and sales strategy and how to book more clients and all of those things in the beginning and very similarly struggled with why do some people excel at this and why are some people still struggling? But you said something before we hit record that I think is really important and a huge part of this. And I think there's plenty of people that can power through and still be successful and then they're going to burn out and then they're going to come back and realize this needs to be part of the journey. But you mentioned kind of uncoupling your feelings around money and I would love for you to explore a little bit more what that means to you.
- [09:05]
Ryan Gillen
Yeah. So one of the things that, you know, the traditional work environment teaches us, right, Is that money is the benchmark for all businesses. And it's true. And I did this work, and I was able to pull apart my relationship with my body, right? I was able to pull apart my relationship with myself, which in turn, my romantic relationship. Like, there were so many areas of my life, Abigail, that were going so well, but then, like, money still continued to be this thing where I would make it one month and then I'd have a bad month, right? Or I would make it for a couple of months, and then I would. Something, you know, big and expensive would happen in my life. I just continue to have. So it was never a bad thing, right? Like, in a way that it was never dire need, but it was just like, you know, why are there people out there on the Internet printing money and I'm not. Was really the question. And it was because I still. I couldn't get my head around the fact that there was another way to measure success other than money. Like, I couldn't wrap my head around it, right? Because the world says that a successful business is one that makes money. It's one that's profitable. And while that is technically true, if that is the only benchmark, if that's the only milestone, if that's the only way you're measuring success, you're always going to feel like crap because there's always more money to be made. There's always going to be somebody making more than you. You know, I had a ment once. It used to refer to this as, like, the lack and the abundance, right? You're like, you think, once I get to this many dollars a month, then. But then you're going to get there and they're gonna be like, well, I can't join all the masterminds I want to. Right? Or I can't go on all the vacations I want to, and I can't buy all the houses I want to, right? So, like. And I honestly think this is a very recent. I told you, probably last six weeks where I can now tell you honestly. I wake up in the morning and my benchmark isn't money. That is very new. It's very scary. Sometimes I still tell myself that it feels irresponsible. But I've really started setting benchmarks based on the commitments I keep to myself, how I feel, my client results, how I'm spending my time. Like, I had to completely uncouple business. The only way to have a successful business is to make money. And I decided instead that when I do these things, money will be a byproduct of that. But these things feel so much better. And I don't feel like I'm losing all of the time because my clients are winning, right? Because I went on a walk with my dogs this morning because I created a piece of content I'm really excited. Excited about because, you know, like, I had a cool conversation with you today. Like, this will go on. My, like, magic moments for the day was like talking to another entrepreneur about something I'm really passionate about. Like, I had to change the benchmarks. And it's kind of interesting the amount of space and creativity is in my brain when I'm not obsessed with a dollar amount all the time.
- [11:28]
Abigail Pumphrey
What do you find yourself focused on then? I mean, I know what I would do, but I'm curious how it's working for you.
- [11:35]
Ryan Gillen
So for me, I focus instead on people and the product. So for me, it's like, how do I make my product? And in my case, I'm very fortunate that I am the product, right? Like, my work is the product. I know that's not the case for all of us, but for me, it's like, if I'm the product, if the work that I'm doing is the work that I'm telling my clients to do, the best thing to do is become a product of the product, right? To prove why the product is so powerful. To prove why the product works. To prove how much I have, you know, how different my life is now than it was even just 12 months ago, right? Like, we were talking about last time we had coffee. We're like, I don't know. It could have been 12 months or three years. We don't know. Time is weird. But. But so for me, I started focusing on those things, like, how do I get my clients better results, right? So I started thinking about my clients more. And I do a lot of voice memoing and stuff with my clients. I try to, again, keep my calendar pretty open. So I don't do a lot of scheduled times. So I'll be out on walks and I'll be thinking about clients like, hey, I got this idea. And so those, to me, are the wins. Like, I helped a client today. I had a new idea today, and now my clients share their wins with me, and, like, I get more excited about that, right? Like, those types of things. So I had to shift it to how do I become a product of the product, and how do I get my clients the best results possible? Because if I Do those two things again. Success is inevitable.
- [12:44]
Abigail Pumphrey
I'm curious if you think money is required to be the goal initially, and then, like, once you hit a certain point in, like, financial security or whatever, that it changes? You don't think so?
- [12:58]
Ryan Gillen
No, because that number is different to everybody, Right? Like, financial security. I tell this story often. I have a client who actually, the reason why she hired me is she's like, ryan, I did all the things they told me to do, and I went out and I made all this money. And I. Again, she's like, I kept it. I invested it. I have this. I have everything on the vision board, and I don't know what to do with myself. You know, like, yeah, okay. Like, I still get out of bed every morning, and I still kind, you know, like, nothing changed. So for me, I mean, I think money. It can't not be a conversation that you're having. I want to be very clear. Just because money isn't what is on the vision board doesn't mean it's not a conversation we're having. And I think that's the difference. Right? Like, I started. Ha. And so it's funny. I decoupled my obsession with money, but I actually spend more time with my money than I ever did before because I actually started paying attention to my money, right? Like, where is it going? Do I like, what. It's what I'm spending it on. You know, what do I want to spend it on? And not just in the terms of the big things, right? Like, the other day, I made a list. I want to. I want to redo my bedroom. So I'm like, I want to buy paint, and I want to buy pillows, and I want to buy new, you know, like, and all those types of things. So I think for me, if money gets you excited, do it. If money constantly makes you feel like you're not enough, because I also think it probably came from my background in sales. I have been like, carrot and stick to my whole career since I was 21 years old. Like, it was deep in my bones, right? Like, if you don't have that and you can get pumped about money and money, the fact that, you know, your goal is a $20,000 month and you're only at 12, doesn't make you feel this big, then leave money as your thing. For me, the goal was 20, and I'm at 12. I. What's wrong with me? What's going on? What do I need to do? How do I fix it? Like, that's what my br. Brain did. That was my habit. So I think the goal has to be something. And it could even be like, you can shift from money to number of clients helped. Right. Like, I've had clients do that, too, where instead of saying, I want to make X number of dollars, they're like, I want to sell, or, you know, I want to do 20 real estate transactions this year. Right. Knowing that somewhere in there, 20 real estate transactions is going to yield the cash. But it's way more fun to think about how many people am I going to help this year than how many dollars am I going to collect. Right. So I think a lot of it comes down to, like, our own programming and our own story and how it feels in your body. It's the word and more, how it feels. Does that help?
- [15:13]
Abigail Pumphrey
No, it totally helps. I always have felt like I needed a why and to, like, keep me motivated. And sometimes those whys were connected to things that cost money. But it wasn't so much the thing itself. It was what I was hoping would be on the other side of the thing. And that's the video I saw you posting about was, you don't really want the boat. You don't really want the fancy car. You don't really want the. Explain to the audience what you mean by that.
- [15:44]
Ryan Gillen
Yeah. So the video that you're referring to, as I say, like, we don't want the boat. We want the feeling. And I tell the story. Actually, one of my podcasts where I'm like, from what I understand, I don't own a boat, but I really like boats. And I've had a boat on my vision board for a long time, and I have a girlfriend that teases me. She's like, ryan, the reason you've never bought a boat is because you realize it's smarter to just rent one. Didn't take it back. Owning a boat is actually a pain in the butt. It's a lot of work, It's a lot of commitment, It's a lot of time, it's a lot of money. You know, we live in the Midwest, and so when you take your boat. I didn't know this. When you take it from one body of water to another, you have to check it for, like, certain types of like. And my point in telling you the details of this is, like, boat ownership is not sexy. Right. What I want to boat for is because I want to pull my kids around on the tube and listen to them giggle and listen to country music at the top of my lungs and eat bologna and cheese sandwiches out of tinfoil because that's how I grew up. With, like, a Diet Coke in my hand, like. And I can create that in my. My backyard. Right. And so, so often we attach the feeling to the thing. And so we're like, I can't be happy until I have a boat. I can't make memories with my kids until I'm pulling them around in the boat, where it's like, the boat is one way to do that. And so, again, so often we put our happiness outside of us in the form of a material thing or a dollar amount or a boat or a house or a car or a number on the scale or something like that. And what I think. And one of my spiritual teachers that I followed very much on my journey is Abraham Hicks. And Abraham always says, the only reason we ever want anything is because of the way that we think it will make us feel. Right. We think we will feel a certain way when we're on that boat with our family. And we might feel that way when we get there, but there are other ways to feel that way now. And the more that we can practice the feeling before we have the result, the faster and easier it is to create results. Because we're creating from a place where. Place of wholeness. We're creating from a place of desire, not a place of lack. Yeah.
- [17:30]
Abigail Pumphrey
And you're usually going to attract the things you're already familiar with. And if you keep making it sound so dissimilar from your current reality, it's not gonna happen.
- [17:40]
Ryan Gillen
It's right, because it creates resistance. Because your brain cannot possibly imagine you going from making $5,000 a month to $500,000 a month. Like, it's. I often tell the story, when I had a business partner, we set revenue goals for the year, for our first year in business. And the goal that she set was so ridiculous that because I couldn't emotionally attach to it like it was Monopoly money at that point, it was like 10 million. It was stupid. Like, I was like, no. Couldn't see it, couldn't feel it, couldn't attach to it. There was no attachment. So I went home, and I didn't even know I was doing it at the time and readjusted the goal to be a goal that I could imagine. Right. A goal that didn't feel ridiculous to me. And I think that's the problem most people have with personal development, quite frankly, is that we try to. Like, we learn about our power, and we learn that we can create what we want. And so then we start trying to create massive Wild things that are so different from what we're experiencing. That, like you said, it just feels, you know, it feels pie in the sky. You can't even relate to it. And when we actually get to see the things that we desire in our life, it's exactly what you said. It has to feel normal. Like, duh, of course. Of course it was a $20,000 month. Of course we're boat shopping next weekend, right? Because you have felt it so much for so long that it's just the natural progression of what happens next because of how you've been moving through the world.
- [18:56]
Abigail Pumphrey
I do think it's easy to not appreciate it as much, though, if we go about it as if everything is just normal and, you know, we keep progressing through life. And so I'm curious because at the end of the day, like, I think we all want to be happy on some kind of spectrum. I've at least, like, reckoned with the idea that I'm. I'm going to be happy sometimes. I can't sustain that constantly. So I'm shooting for contentment. And I think that is a more noble goal. But how do you find that in the moment while still striving for more? Because I think so often it's like, either we feel complacent and apathetic, or we're going for something that's outside of ourselves, and then that's like. Like discounting the reality we have today.
- [19:46]
Ryan Gillen
So there's a couple parts of this. The first one is, I agree with you, right, that it is. It's that catch 22, right? I'm supposed to be grateful for what I have and want more. And the first thing I do with my clients is I just like, let's let ourselves off the hook. That, like, we're always going to want more. I think this is actually Bob Proctor, who always says that, like, spirit is for expansion. Like, that's literally what we're here to do, is expand. And you can use nature as the perfect example, right? Nature's constantly expanding. I think of that. I walk through all sorts of random parks, and you watch, you know, it grows and it grows and it grows. And then in fall, right, we go into harvest season and things die, and then we. We cut back, and then it grows back next year. So I think, a, it's letting ourselves off the hook for always wanting more, because that is natural and that is normal. And I think sometimes we do. We beat ourselves up for it. Like, I have so much. What is wrong with you? Like, how come you can't just be happy instead of realizing that, like, expansion and progression are normal, right? It's the difference between desire and need, I think, is where we find contentment, right? Like, it would be amazing to have a boat, right? But like I told you, I managed to put myself on a boat four or five, six times every summer without owning a boat, right? Whether we rent a boat or we get invited out on somebody's boat, like, for the past several years. And like I said, that's why my girlfriend jokes with me about it. She's like, just don't buy the boat. Like, it seems to be working out okay for you right now to not have it, but it. Because, again, it'll be so fun. And I can still see it and it still sometimes winds up in my visualizations. But I don't see myself as less than because I don't own a boat, right? Like, that's what I think. So with my clients, it always comes down to, I say it's like one foot in gratitude and one foot in the desire. And, like, we have to walk. You know, people talk about work life balance. I don't think work life balance is a thing, but I do think it's finding balance between gratitude and desire, right? I'm so grateful for the clients I have now, and I'm so excited to imagine having, you know, 500 clients or whatever the number is. I don't know, right? Everybody's business is different. But I don't care if you have one client, right? We have to be so grateful for that one client if we're ever going to get client number two, right? You know, and we gotta be so grateful for the two clients if we're ever gonna get client number three. And so to me, like, gratitude is not optional, right? Like, gratitude is not optional. And I agree with you that I don't think happiness is the goal all the time. I, like, like, where I kind of put it is like, peace. Like, peace is a good place to be, right? We're not always like, hi, hi, hi. Like, everything's amazing. Like, we can't live. Like, our nervous system isn't built for that either, right? Like, joy all the time also feels tired. I learned that this summer we played a little bit too hard. And I was like, can we please just not leave the house or put on bathing suits or life jackets for like, a couple of weeks, Please? Jesus. Like, if I have to pull another fish off a hook or whatever. But, like, it was so fun. And can we stop doing that right now? So for me, I shoot for peace. Right. And I can find peace in all of the ways. And I think that's what keeps us moving is, you know, the path to more is through what we have. When we're not grateful for one client, like I said, we can't get number two. Right. But we're like, I want 20 clients and I only have one. And all we're focused on in the 19 that are missing. And that's where we get out of balance. Right. That's where we tip too far into desire turns into want and need and judgment, and then we fall off. Right. So it's that balance of. Of I'm going to serve this one client to the best of my ability and leave myself open for, you know, X number of more clients at the same time. So I do. It's a constant back and forth for me as well, in that when I.
- [22:56]
Abigail Pumphrey
Think about desire, I often find that people are either super clear on what they want or they're swimming in doubt and confusion, and they have no clue what they're going for. They just know it's not this.
- [23:14]
Ryan Gillen
Yep.
- [23:14]
Abigail Pumphrey
So how do you help your clients identify what they want and specifically those feelings that they're chasing, especially when it's unclear?
- [23:23]
Ryan Gillen
Yeah. So, you know, we can also create clarity, right? Like, a desire can be clarity. Like, we can start there. Like, I desire to get clear on what I want. And so, like, that first step of the process is like you said, most of us stick in the what we don't want, but what we don't want on the other side of that is always what we do want, right? So, like I used to say all the time, I don't want a super full calendar. Right? Like, I don't want a super full calendar. I want 800 calls on my calendar all the time. The number of times that came out of my mouth, right? But the flip side of that is like, okay, I desire white space. I desire to have time during my work day that is not tied up in calls and other things. You know, that is really just to do whatever, you know, intuitively I decide to do in that moment. So. So for me, it's like, okay, I know that I didn't want a full calendar. So what do I want? I want white space. Okay. What am I going to do with that white space? Why do I want that white space? Again? How's that white space going to make me feel? And the white space makes me feel like I have time and space to be creative and to think. Right? So, okay, cool. I'm clear on. I want white space on my calendar because it gives me space to think, and I get my best ideas when I have space to think. Right. So it's just starting through that. Like, you can start from what I don't want and what's the other side of that? Right. Like, I don't want to have to worry about making payroll. Beautiful. What do you want? Well, I want to be able to make payroll comfortably and confidently. Awesome. How does that feel? I feel like I've got my stuff together. I feel like I'm a good business owner. I feel like I'm doing good in the world. I feel like I'm helping the people that I'm paying. It feels so good knowing that somebody else puts food on their table with the business that I build. Like, what an honor that is. Right? Because making payroll is not sexy. Like, nobody desires to make payroll. Right. But we desire to run an organization that makes a difference in the world, and sometimes it's in our clients, and sometimes it's in the people that we pay in our businesses. So for me, it's always like, okay, we know what we don't want. What do we want? And then what's actually underneath that? And that's why I always say it's not the thing. Right. Nobody actually really wants money because nobody tells me. When I ask people why they want money, it's not so. Well, I can open all of my bank accounts and look at it like, that's not what anybody wants. I just want to open my. All my investment accounts and look at the money and call it pretty. Right. It's about the experience and the feeling. It's always about the experience and the feeling. Right. I want to be the type of person that money never dictates my decisions. Cool. Okay, so what does that feel like? Well, that feels like freedom. That feels like safety. That feels like security. That feels like clarity. That feels like good ideas. Awesome. Where do we find that? Now? You could go for a walk outside of your house right now. Again, I live in the Midwest. Obviously you do as well. Like, I can within 10 minutes of my house, I can be in a park. Park where it is quiet and peaceful, where I can find that feeling of, this doesn't cost a dime to be here. And this feels safe, and it feels secure, and it feels lovely. And there's people and animals, and people are having fun. Like, parks are always great. There's always kids having a good time. Right. Like, there's so much goodness in that. So that's kind of How I walk through, like, how do we find the clarity and then how do we find the feeling? Because. And the reason why this is so important, and this actually comes down to an Einstein quote of. And actually the last time I googled it, it was like it's rumored to be by Einstein. So we might have to fact check me on this one. But it's the idea that like, like the solution of a problem is not available at the same level of consciousness that created it. And so what I understand that to mean is that when I'm feeling frustrated and overwhelmed and my business isn't growing as fast as I want to, and I don't have as many clients as I want to, there's no creativity there, there's no next big idea, there's no amazing content idea that I'm going to do, or there's no freebie in there. Like, there's no inspiration in that feeling of omg, my business isn't growing fast enough. So this isn't just like, go to the park and wander around so you can count like butterflies, it's go to the park and wander around because it feels good. And when you feel better, the ideas are better, the conversations are better, the people you run into are better, the things that you think about are better. Right? Because again, when we're at the same level of consciousness as the problem, there's no solution there because we're a match for it. So we have to shift into something that feels better to be able to find the solution. And I think that's the piece that's missing in a lot of personal development is people like, I'm not supposed to feel better. But why? Well, the point of feeling better is because when we feel better, we have better ideas, we show up more assertively, more confidently, we are more willing to take risks, we're more willing to put ourselves out there, we're more willing to try that new hard thing that we don't know if we're very good at, but we're going to try it anyway when we feel good, but when all we think about is how our business isn't growing fast enough and how there's not enough money in the bank and how I'm never going to ever be able to retire. Like there's no good ideas there, right?
- [27:46]
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- [28:31]
Ryan Gillen
So.
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Abigail Pumphrey
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Ryan Gillen
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Abigail Pumphrey
Get optioning those options. We could lose everything. Or let's do a little research, get.
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Ryan Gillen
Your head in the trade and make.
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Abigail Pumphrey
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Ryan Gillen
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- [29:56]
Abigail Pumphrey
I think so often when you get stuck in that like problem centric cycle, you know it can only just take you further down, like even the opposite direction of you know, it's not just the problem you have now, it's you know, the problem backwards and it's dangerous. It can be a really slippery slope if you don't catch yourself soon enough.
- [30:19]
Ryan Gillen
Yes.
- [30:20]
Abigail Pumphrey
And I also know that people who do make the choices to like take the walk or have the slow morning or whatever, they'll do it and enjoy it in the moment and then beat themselves up for it later. And so how do you really make it clear to yourself, really, that this is worth it. Like, this isn't a distraction from all the things they're supposed to be doing and is important.
- [30:51]
Ryan Gillen
I love this question so much because I quite literally just recorded a podcast about this that went live today. And it's about relationships. And one of the things, remember I told you, like, most recently, money is the thing that has unlocked. But before money, I had to change my relationship with work. And so I had to stop seeing as like just checking the boxes in asana or trello as the only way to do the work. Like, to me, the morning walk is part of the work. Like, it's deciding that. And so one of the things I teach all my clients is that you're the asset, right? Like, view yourself as the asset. You're the most valuable part of the business. And I don't care if you're in a personal brand business, if you're a real estate agent, if you run a tech company or a marketing firm, or you are a lawyer at ABC firm, right? Like, you are the asset. You are your own source of ideas and information and experience. And therefore, like when we're taught with money what happens when we take care of assets, they appreciate, right? And so when we take care of ourselves as the asset, we appreciate. So for me, the morning walk isn't for to be fluffy or because it's nice. It's because I have to take care of myself. Because if I don't take care of the asset, there is no business. So for me, I started making the soft side of the work, the breath work, the journaling, the meditations, the tough conversations, the walks in the woods, the following my intuition and doing scary things. As much and as important as create the piece of content, reach out to the client, create this, do that, right? Like, it's starting to view all of it as part of the work, right? Yes. Taking care of the business and doing the tasks that need to be done in the business is work work, right? But taking care of the person who's doing the task is also part of the work. It's not fluffy, it's not silly, it's not a time waster. Taking the walk with myself, like, I brainstorm most of my content while I'm walking or exploring or doing something fun. So technically, I am working, for lack of a better term, right? I'm just in the woods with my dogs while I do it. You know, I create content on my walks when I feel real inspired, right? Or it's typically when I sit back down in My car afterwards and I'm like, oh, gotta hit record, right? So I could see that as a waste of time because it's not what the world, like, nobody put it on a to do list, but maybe you start putting your walk on your to do list, like, you know, maybe make it part of that. So for me, the self care became less about just taking care of myself and also became about taking care of the business.
- [33:10]
Abigail Pumphrey
Yeah, it's so important and it's easy to forget that it's important. It's easy to get distracted by the things that feel like they're burning and on fire and. But at least most of my clients, I would say like a good 98 of them do not have jobs that are essential or like life saving or like can't wait for you to go take a walk.
- [33:38]
Ryan Gillen
Right. And it doesn't always, I think again, this is our type A brain though, right? Like if I'm gonna go for a walk, it's got to be an hour long walk and it's got to be this like 10 minutes. You know, if you're feeling stressed out, take 10. You know, it doesn't have to be long, it doesn't be a big deal. You know, just wear comfortable shoes, you don't have to change your clothes, you don't have to get sweaty. Like. And I'm just telling you all the excuses I used to give myself right where I couldn't walk in back in the day, right? Well, I'm already camera ready and I wear makeup on because I had that call at this time and that time. So I can't go for a walk because then I have to get 10 minutes. It's 10 minutes. Your face isn't going to melt off in 10 minutes.
- [34:13]
Abigail Pumphrey
And even if it does, who cares?
- [34:15]
Ryan Gillen
That too, right? I've certainly started wearing less makeup in this adventure. For sure. For sure. My kids went back to school and all of a sudden I was like, oh, I have time to do this. So I've put more makeup on in the past, like seven days than I think I did the previous three months.
- [34:28]
Abigail Pumphrey
Well, but you got to be present and that was the more important thing for you.
- [34:32]
Ryan Gillen
100. And again, it was the same thing. It's hot and sweaty here, so what's the point? I'm just gonna sweat it off. So I'm just not gonna put it on.
- [34:38]
Abigail Pumphrey
Yeah, I mean, solid choice, I think. But also the older I get, the less makeup I wear anyway.
- [34:45]
Ryan Gillen
Isn't that so interesting?
- [34:46]
Abigail Pumphrey
It is. So I think it's because My skin care routine is better, but, like, I actually wash my face.
- [34:55]
Ryan Gillen
There you go.
- [34:55]
Abigail Pumphrey
Wild concepts. I know people are hearing this and they're like, yes, I agree. I'm. I'm ready, I'm willing. I want to do this. And then they get into the practical application of it, and they're going to get stuck, and they're going to. To get distracted, and they're gonna get sucked in a new direction. And so, like, how do you. Recenter. How do you, like, come back to this?
- [35:19]
Ryan Gillen
So for me, the hardest part, and if you can crack the code on this, the rest becomes so much easier is actually believing the amount of influence that you have. Like, I think the hardest part for me, the reason why it was so easy for me to dismiss the walk and the meditation and the breath work and all the tools is because I had such a track record of evidence of stuff, success, doing it completely differently, right? I'm like, I know if I burn myself out, I can do it, right? Like, I know if I just work harder. I know if I just show up more. I know if I just create a little more, like. And so for me, the part that I had to root myself into the most is, you know, if everything I wanted was done, what would I do? And then somebody's gonna be like, well, I would just sit at home and eat bonbons. No, you wouldn't, right? For, like, the first 48 hours, you would do nothing. And then you would realize that that's boring, and you would get up and start creating something, right? Like the people listening to this podcast. There are some people in who would do nothing. I don't think anyone listening to this podcast is that type of person. You might take a day or two off, right? But that's not who you are. That's not where your soul is driven, right? Like, you are driven by something bigger than you. I don't think that anybody who winds up in somebody's world like yours or like mine or entrepreneurship at all, even looking at it or thinking about it, thinks like the rest of the world, right? We automatically think differently. So. But it's also realizing that, like, you have so much more influence. Influence over the results than you think that you do. And that piece, I think, takes the longest because so much of the world has taught us differently, and a lot of our results show us differently. You're like, no, I really. I really hated cold calling back in 2006 when I started selling radio advertising. But it worked, you know, but, you know, so it's like, okay, well, but, you know, if I knew it was done, if the results were promised, how would I approach this? What would I do? And coming back to that over and over and over again and choosing from that space. And like I said, the first or second time it might be, I might just throw the computer out the window and go home because I'm really sick of tinkering on this thing. Well, then that's what you should do because you're actually not being productive in that moment anyway. Forcing yourself to try to push yourself through a problem you can't figure out, like I said, is never going to result in anything good. So go home, you're better suited, take a bath, take a shower, wash your face, drink some water, try again later.
- [37:32]
Abigail Pumphrey
Yeah, I was listening to the podcast this morning about a very successful woman. She runs a eight figure company and you know, had gotten to the point where she was totally burnt out and totally exhausted and hated what she was doing, didn't like her product suite, didn't like what she was selling and just felt really out of alignment. And the person interviewing her was like, so when you like took a step back and you like slowed down and, you know, cried it out right before you even change direction, before you had time to rebuild it and redo the thing in the way you wanted to do it, like, what happened? And she said nothing. Like, the world stayed the same. Like, the business kept running, she still brought in money. Like, and I think so often we assume, and it's not to say some of you are running businesses, if you stopped taking clients, the money would stop.
- [38:32]
Ryan Gillen
Right?
- [38:33]
Abigail Pumphrey
There are many of you on this call where you could go away for two weeks and nothing about your world would change and you would just come back to it, and that's okay. And I think so often we assume we can't do that, but no one's going to give you permission. By the way. Like I, I used to call it like the mythical ding. Like, no one's gonna come ring a bell and say, now it's time for you to do what you want and like, like it.
- [39:00]
Ryan Gillen
Right?
- [39:01]
Abigail Pumphrey
It's not happening.
- [39:03]
Ryan Gillen
No. Well, and even those of you that feel like, well, if I left, the business would stop running, but like, if you run the business from a place of resistance for a long period of time, it will then stop performing altogether.
- [39:14]
Abigail Pumphrey
Totally. Like your sales are gonna go in the trash anyway.
- [39:17]
Ryan Gillen
And I was like, that one's a personal experience. One right where I'm like, I'm just gon harder because that's. I mean, that's 100 what I did. I was like, I'm just going to try harder. I can do this. I know how to fix this. Just work more. Right. I'll figure it out later. Right. Like, I'll get to that later. That was always my thing. I'll get to the self care part later. You know, I'm like, let's just fix this business thing. Let's just fix this money thing and then I'll worry about taking care of myself later. And eventually, yeah, I always say that, like, God, source, the universe, whatever you believe in teaches you a lesson until you learn it. And for me, it was like, you got to stop. So continuing to torture yourself is eventually going to torpedo the business anyway. So you might as well take the two weeks off before you have to light it on fire. Because I don't think that's required to rebuild.
- [39:55]
Abigail Pumphrey
Yeah, no, I don't think it's required to rebuild either. I think so often you assume that it's ditching everything and starting over and renaming and rebranding and re, blah, blah, blah, blah. Stop. Like, just start with, how can you do the work you're already doing in a way that you enjoy it a little more?
- [40:14]
Ryan Gillen
Yes. Well, and I think we just forget that, like most of us started because we did enjoy what we were doing. Right. The reason why the work is no longer fun is because you've become resentful. Right. Of the time it takes away from you. It's because you haven't set boundaries, you haven't set standards, you haven't taken care of yourself. It's often not the work. Right. A lot of my clients, if we just, like you said, kind of get them to take a step back and refocus. I have a client who's a real estate agent. I'll give you a very specific example. And she's, she's planning a wedding this, this year and she's really stressed out about the wedding. And what do you know, her business isn't doing as well. And so. And she was trying to balance both the things. Right. How do I continue my thriving real estate business and plan a beautiful wedding? And the coaching I gave her was, I want you to focus on just being a woman planning a wedding. And she was like, what? Like, no, just go be a woman planning the wedding of your dreams to the man of your dreams and building this life and doing these things. And when, you know, when you have to work in the business, work in the business. And otherwise you are a woman planning a wedding. Wedding she managed to put like 10 deals under contract within six weeks by removing her focus from, oh my gosh, how am I going to do both? To like, go do the thing you want to do, which is plan your wedding. And then sure enough, what do you know, the business took care of itself. That referral, that deal that wasn't supposed to happen, they weren't going to move until Q4 decided to move up. Like, that's where the magic comes in, right? That nobody wants to talk about because we get into the woo. But yeah, most of the time when you are trying too hard and forcing too hard, you're the one who, who's choking the life out of your business anyway. And if you just went and did something fun for her, to plan a wedding for somebody else might be craft. You dig home improvement projects, right? Like, go do something you enjoy doing. And that's where the random referral came out of nowhere. Or that one person that I had a sales call with two weeks ago finally bought, or you know, somebody bought a digital product while I was, you know, playing with the kids. Like, that's the stuff. You know, it's like they say a watched pot never boiled. I mean, it eventually will, but you'll torture yourself in the process.
- [42:04]
Abigail Pumphrey
I want to talk about energetics for a minute because I think I've been the person. I've run a podcast, literally, called the Strategy Hour. And it was because I was so convinced that if you knew how to do something tactically and practically, that you could figure it out and you could get there. And I think that's true for a lot of things to an extent. I think there's a end zone where you, if you want to keep going, you have to make some changes. Some of you may have to do this work first. I don't necessarily think that's true for everybody, but I was able to go really far before I had to even pay attention to this. But at some point, if you are not a fun person, hang around. If you are exuding. I hate this.
- [42:48]
Ryan Gillen
Yeah.
- [42:49]
Abigail Pumphrey
Then it is going to fall apart. And I think going back to the energetic work of like, like not just the taking care of yourself, because I think understanding, you know, eating well and working out and like, maybe even working on your spirituality in terms of your faith, whatever that practice might be, that feels normal to some extent, but there's this subconscious, like, nervous system level stuff that I don't think people are really talking about, at least not broadly. And if you do all this other work and it's still A mess. This is the problem 100%. Tell me your thoughts around this topic because I know you have some.
- [43:29]
Ryan Gillen
Of course. No, I mean it absolutely is. That's why the results stop coming, right? Because again, we can. That's, I think, the piece that misses for so many people that are like, well, I can't create results any other way than in Energetics. And you and I are both case in point, that you can, right? You can hard work, effort, suffer and sacrifice yourself to a whole, whole lot. It just doesn't feel good, right? And so for most people, I think the reason why the journey is different from everybody is every starting point is different, right? Like you came from a traditional business background. You had a career before you came an entrepreneur. You had a baseline for businesses that make money and what they look like. And so you already had a clear picture in your mind of what it looks like to be inside of a successful business. So it makes sense that you were able to exit corporate and come over here and create, right? Because you had a background for that. It's the people that don't have that background, they've never seen it, they can't visualize it, they can't create it. They've never see themselves as a successful business person. That. That's where they get stuck, right? So I think where you're starting from, it depends on where you're starting from. And then where do Energetics come into play is just that, right? Like if you were taught that, you know, rich people are bad, you're eventually going to self sabotage when you hit a certain income level, right? Because there is a subconscious fear that says, if I make any more money than this. My parents told me that people with that amount of money are bad people. Look at all these people in the world who have all this money who are doing bad things. You will subconsciously sabotage if you don't do this work. And that's the piece where it starts to come in. So again, it's like, well, I can get to here. That's what typically winds up happening. Or I will see clients, they will expand. Like my story was, I expanded. I had a million dollar year and my identity was like, whoop, nope, can't hold that. Our nervous system does not see that as safe. And even still, I've had to retrain. The last time we made a lot of money, it sucked and we're really unhealthy. We had to work really hard and we hated the work we were doing. And we worked all the time. And so, like, I still have to remind myself that, like, we're not doing that again. That's not, we're not going back there. So I think some of it is just like the nervous system work is very important, but it shows up in all different places. And I've yet to find anybody at any level who hasn't had to address it. It's just like you said, it's at what level? Level. And it all is based on your starting point. It's all based on what you were taught, told and programmed. So again, if you were programmed to believe that business was easy, you're going to grow a business pretty easily until like you said, something subconscious comes in and says, nope, don't do that. Right? Like sometimes I'll see this. When people go to out earn their spouse or out earn their parents or earn their circle of friends, they're like, that feels safe. We sit around and we talk about the people who waste money on stupid ship. And I'm about to go in there and be one of those people who waste money on stupid stuff.
- [46:00]
Abigail Pumphrey
Oh, God.
- [46:01]
Ryan Gillen
Right? So I think it happens. It's just when and for me, if it hasn't happened yet, why don't you start doing the work now so preemptively it doesn't happen, right? If you start to train your body that it's safe to have money and it's safe to win and it's safe to be successful, then when you get there, you won't have to backtrack, right? Like I backtracked because I expanded. And then my nervous system was like, that is not a safe place for us. You know, I went from somebody who making $200,000 a year would have been an obscene amount of money to 24 months later making 1.2 million million. And my identity did not match at all. And so I had to go back and rebuild that and rewire that. And when I say rewire that, just retrain my brain that it's safe. Right? Look for examples of people making a lot of money who are happy, who are successful, who are living good lives, who do have good relationships, right? So sometimes it's like just start looking for evidence of the opposite of what you're afraid is going to happen is a great way to start loosening up some of those places where we get stuck.
- [46:54]
Abigail Pumphrey
I find that even if I can find evidence, if I can find evidence that validates my subconscious fear that that will end up trumping the other thing. How do you like rattle with that? Because I can get stuck there for a while.
- [47:13]
Ryan Gillen
Right. So for me, the way that I have found best is it's intentionality. Like, that's why doing it every day, like I do the same breath work exercise every morning because it forces me me. It doesn't force me. The breath work, the one that I do, it's on an app called the Other Ship. If you guys are interested, I'm happy to share you my favorite. It is a paid app, I will tell you that, but it talks about it makes you really feel gratitude for the things in your life. And so like every single morning, I intentionally train my body what it feels like to be grateful for this amazing business that I'm building, right? Like, I do it every day. I write it down every day. I have conversations in my head all of the time. I am constantly, constantly reminding myself about what I'm creating and what I'm doing. And when I'm not doing that, I'm constantly focusing on what is going well, right? So sometimes it's not even like the subject, if the subject takes you down a rabbit hole. So again, let's use money. And you can see that there's evidence that you can make more money. But like you said, your subconscious beliefs take over, then sometimes it's just change the subject, right? If you can't get to where you want to be in the feeling state, right? So we've already talked about what does it feel like, the money that you think that you want, what does like it feel feel like? And if your subconscious beliefs start to take over and you find yourself in that spiral, change the subject and go find the feeling somewhere else, right? So like for you, you and your husband have a darling relationship, right? So like, if you ever get caught up in the business, go think about him and how much you love him and how hard you two have worked on your lives together and how grateful you are for such a great life partner and all of these things because you can find the feeling that you think the money is going to give you in the relationship that you currently have. And then once you go find the feeling, then you can take your very stubborn brain and go see, look, it's safe, we're safe, we're safe, we're safe. So it's kind of like that's why we've got to find the feeling in all the places we can find the feeling. Because sometimes I can't find the feeling in the business either, right? Running a multimillion dollar business without hating life, like, you know, I've yet to do that. So again, I have evidence that it happens because I see other people, but I have personal experience that shows that it isn't. And so when I can't shake that feeling, I go find what else makes me feel that way, right? Being on a boat with my kids, you know, or my partner has a motorcycle. Derek and I, like, we ride motorcycle multiple times a week. Like, it's my favorite thing to do. It always feels good. I often tell myself in the back of that motorcycle is like, this is what a million dollar business that feels amazing feels like, you know, so sometimes when you get real stuck and you can't get there through the subject, change the subject. Because remember, it's always the feeling. And there's lots of things in your life that can produce the feeling and that don't have that same resistance, right. That subconscious resistance to the money, right? So go find something that you don't have that. That resistance with. Like, for you, like for me, it's Derek, right? It's my kids. It's. You know, my kids are really into sports, and I'm coaching a rec league volleyball team this year. I'm so excited, right? But, like, getting excited about little stuff like that, spending a couple hours a week with a bunch of third and fourth graders, like, that's gonna feel amazing. It has nothing to do with business, but I know when I think about it, it feels like, like freedom. It feels like fun. It feels like pouring into my community. It feels like impact all the ways I want my business to feel. So that's what happens. Like, that's what I would suggest when you're feeling stuck, change the subject amazing.
- [50:18]
Abigail Pumphrey
Well, I know there is obviously way more work to this than the things we've talked about today. Because putting this stuff in practice takes time, it takes repetition, it takes consistency. And with all of that, I know people are gonna be like, I'm gonna need another Ryan pep talk at some point. So, like, like, where can people find you online and hang out with you and hear more of your content?
- [50:44]
Ryan Gillen
Yes. So my podcast is the Uncensored Self with Ryan Gillen. I produce at least a weekly show. Sometimes when I'm feeling froggy, we'll do it more than once a week. If I've got something that's heavy on my heart, I create a lot of content on TikTok. So I'm @ryangillan official. It's Ryan with two NS on both TikTok and Instagram. And I actually share a lot of written content still on Facebook. Facebook has become my home for written content. So you can Find me there. It's Ryan Gillen in all of those places. Yeah, I do. I put out a lot of content. It is my service to the world. And again, I'll give you a perfect example as we wrap up. Like, for me, I had to shift that. Like, content creation used to be something that I did to get clients right. Like, now content creation is something that I do to serve the world. That is something that I do to connect with people. It's something that I do because there's going to be people that are never going to afford my coaching, that are never going to want to afford my coaching. And I don't ever want to be in a place where it's like, well, we don't help people who don't have money. So, like, and it was such a beautiful shift. And now the content ideas are better. And what do you know, My content is performing so much better when I stopped creating it to get a result and started creating it to help people. So if for no other reason that you want to watch that evolution, it's a good reason to follow me on social.
- [51:52]
Abigail Pumphrey
Well, I also, as someone who has watched from the sidelines for a long time, I will say part of it is you do just get better when you do it more often.
- [52:02]
Ryan Gillen
Yes.
- [52:02]
Abigail Pumphrey
I remember some of your early TikTok. You were clearly trying to talk fast to like catch people's attention. And to the point it felt unnatural. Now you just yabber at a million miles an hour. But it's like absolutely your normal speed. Yes, but it works. That wouldn't have happened if you didn't have the awkward moments at the beginning.
- [52:23]
Ryan Gillen
Totally. And regulating my nervous system because somebody like, I get asked all the time, like, and I've been being told I talk too fast since I was leading classrooms full of teachings in for years. And so I did try for a long time. So I will tell you it wasn't a conscious choice to talk that fast. But I now know is I believe my nervous system was just so shot. Like, I was so in fight or flight all the time that it was like, get it out as quickly as possible because I got to get onto the next thing. It was not a conscious choice. And so it is interesting to see old stuff and new stuff and be like, I don't know if there's that much of a speed difference. There's an energy difference.
- [52:53]
Abigail Pumphrey
Oh yeah.
- [52:54]
Ryan Gillen
I'm not rushing through it. And it's like, if you think I'm talking too much or talking too fast or talking too long, you can keep going, but I'm gonna make my point. So it is. It is the practice of it. But I think it's also like I've regulated my nervous system to the point where it's like, yeah, some people might not watch the whole thing and that's okay. But again, it's still my service to the world for that person who's like, gosh, I wish I could work with you, but they don't have the money or the resources or it's not something for them. They'll watch every video. They'll watch them to the end. They'll do it. And so I remind myself that's why I do it. But thank you for that feedback because it is kind of fun where I'm like, oh, yeah, I still talk real fast, but it doesn't have that urgent, urgent hair on fire feeling because I don't feel urgent in my hair.
- [53:31]
Abigail Pumphrey
I can tell the difference in how you're putting it out there. So I agree completely. Thank you so much for being here. Let's get coffee in real life soon.
- [53:40]
Ryan Gillen
I would love that. Let's.
- [53:42]
Abigail Pumphrey
And I'm sure we'll have you back. So thank you so much for being here today.
- [53:47]
Ryan Gillen
Awesome. Thank you.
- [53:48]
Abigail Pumphrey
Hey, a few quick favors before you leave. I'd love if you'd share today's episode, send it to a friend who needs to hear it and post on social media. You can show us where you're listening from, your favorite takeaway, or why someone else should listen. Be sure to tag me, Abigail says and ossproject so we can share it. Okay. Second favor, to get podcast updates and all the behind the scenes news from Boss Project. I'd love if you'd join my VIP list. Just head to bossproject.com signup to make sure I have all your contact details. Really love this show. It would mean so much to me if you'd leave a rating and review you. It not only helps more listeners find the show, but allows us to bring on quality sponsors so we can keep bringing you this valuable content for free. Thanks so much for listening. Until next time.