Podcast Summary: "Through to Thriving: Insights from the Field"

Podcast: The Tech Policy Press Podcast
Episode Title: Through to Thriving: Insights from the Field
Date: December 21, 2025
Host: Justin Hendricks
Guest/Fellow: Anika Collier Navaroli, with featured voices from throughout her fellowship series

Episode Overview

This special episode marks the culmination of Anika Collier Navaroli’s “Through to Thriving” series, a fellowship project with Tech Policy Press exploring the current state and imagined futures of technology policy at the intersection of tech, democracy, and society. The host, Justin Hendricks, and Anika reflect on this year-long series of conversations with leading voices in trust & safety, journalism, academia, advocacy, and the arts. The episode focuses on processing recent years’ turmoil in tech policy, fostering space for human connection, and seeking paths not just to survival, but to hope, agency, and thriving futures.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Processing Personal and Collective Experiences in Tech Policy

• Whistleblowing and Community: Anika reflects on her recent media coverage and the emotional complexity of public whistleblowing, highlighting both personal therapeutic value and the broader community’s varied response.
  • Quote:
    • “I haven't really talked about whistleblowing in quite some time...to go back and sit with it and talk a little bit about what the process has been like… it felt good in many ways and therapeutic in many ways. Kind of like this podcast.” (Anika, 02:42)
• Purpose of the Series: The project aimed to create a space for processing not only her own experiences but, more critically, to allow others in the field to share their lived realities and imagine what comes next.

2. Taking the Temperature: How People in the Field Are Feeling

• A Complicated Moment: Anika and Justin discuss opening each conversation with “How are you feeling?”—a simple but radical act in a field focused on facts, policy, and conflict.
  • Jerrel Peterson’s Perspective:
    • “I always start my day with gratitude... there are a lot of really strong, talented professionals who do not have a job right now. But there's a lot of polarization...a lot of tension and fear... Trust and safety folks have to sit at the center...it is still complicated. It has not gotten any easier.” (Jerrel Peterson, 06:24)
• Inviting Vulnerability: Anika describes her “Auntie Internet” and “Auntie Feelings” personas, emphasizing that connecting as humans is crucial, given how fraught and emotionally taxing the field is.

3. Building and Sustaining Community

• Intentional, Values-Based Community:
  • Ellen Pao’s Reflection:
    • “A feeling of trust, a feeling of, I think the reciprocity is important. Not a transactional reciprocity, but… I know this is a good person.” (Ellen Pao, 11:10)
• Humanizing Tech Policy: Centering community and emotional awareness reframed many conversations from pure problem-solving to also mutual support and healing.

4. Moving from Grief to Joy

• Pursuing Joy in the Midst of Grief:
  • Desmond Patton’s Journey:
    • “People now associate me with joy...and I love it...I have shifted my identity...and it's positive...I have shifted my life just by being intentional, being reflexive, and also being vulnerable.” (Desmond Patton, 12:38-13:27)
• A Model for Transformation: The shift toward joy, even in heavy topics like gun violence, illustrates the possibility and necessity of emotional transformation for individuals and communities affected by technology’s harms.

5. Bridging Across Industry, Civil Society, and Academia

• The Necessity of Collaborating Across Borders:

  • Vaishnavi:
    • “We still fundamentally have a significant asymmetry of expertise when it comes to how technology works...it’s civil society and government that play checks and balances…but how can you regulate something if you don't understand how it works?” (Vaishnavi, 15:00)

• Breaking Down Hostility: Conversations unpack the persistent skepticism and mistrust between those inside industry and those in advocacy or civil society, noting the importance of collaboration.

• Advice from Inside the Industry:

  • Alice Hansberger:
    • “The company is not the individuals who work there...back channel conversations…can often drive change in a way that official meetings can’t...there’s tons of people who are desperate to help platforms be better.” (Alice Hansberger, 16:10)

6. Tech as Imagination—Not Inevitability

• Imagining Alternative Futures:
  • Timnit Gebru’s Challenge:
    • “There is no natural progression of things. It is literally all of it is about who is getting the resources to execute on what imagination.” (Timnit Gebru as described by Anika, 20:08)
• Critical Lens on Technological “Progress”: Participants push back against the myth that technology develops in inevitable, neutral ways, instead pointing to power dynamics and possibilities for different futures.

7. The Role of Journalism and Knowledge Production

• Restoring Trust in Media:
  • Naomi Nicks (Washington Post):
    • “How do we explain how we work? How do we continue to try to win the trust of the American people...and how do we do it in a way where there's a business model that allows us to exist and do that work? That's a really tough challenge, but it feels important.” (Naomi Nicks, 21:50)
• Advice for the Next Generation:
  • Jasmine McNeely:
    • “Read. Read a lot. Read history, read sociology, and read nonfiction...But then do not be afraid to write for yourself...be willing to be vulnerable in writing for yourself and accepting feedback.” (Jasmine McNeely, 23:12)

8. Critical Voices and Cautions

• “Every Future Imagined by a Tech Company is Worse Than the Previous Iteration”:
  • Chris Gilliard:
    • “The imagination of the tech company is driven by capitalism and the need to extract maximum value from us...it’s actually super dark right now, but...the tech barons are overplaying their hand...it's very obvious where they are.” (Chris Gilliard, 24:52-26:19)
• Revealing Power Dynamics: These trenchant critiques serve as reminders of how far the field still has to go in shifting incentives, transparency, and accountability.

9. Action Before Hope

• Taking Agency:
  • Nora Benavides:
    • “We can’t wait for hope. We have to take action...Just take an action. Just show up at a protest. Send the email to your representative. The action will produce hope, not the other way around.” (Nora Benavides, 27:10)
• Empowering the Next Generation: Anika details how her teaching and future work will be focused on equipping young people to do better—armed with the lessons and mistakes of prior generations.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Emotional Processing and Community:

  • “We're all people, and we're all humans, and we all have feelings. And yes, we might have done some really amazing stuff that was in the Washington Post or whatever... But, like, we're humans.” (Anika, 10:25)

• On the Limits of Hope Alone:

  • “We can’t wait for hope. We have to take action…The action will produce hope, not the other way around.” (Nora Benavides, 27:10)

• On Joy as Activism:

  • “I have shifted my life just by being intentional, being reflexive, and also being vulnerable.” (Desmond Patton, 13:10)

• On Tech Policy Cross-Sector Cooperation:

  • “The company is not the individuals who work there...back channel conversations... can often drive change in a way that official meetings can't.” (Alice Hansberger, 16:10)

• On Possibilities Beyond the Status Quo:

  • “There is no natural progression of things. It is literally all of it is about who is getting the resources to execute on what imagination.” (Timnit Gebru cited by Anika, 20:08)

Timestamps for Major Segments

• Fellowship Series Introduction & Anika’s Motivation (00:00–04:05)
• How Guests Are Really Feeling: Complications of Trust & Safety (06:01–07:45)
• On Community, Reciprocity, and Humanity (10:25–11:27)
• Shifting from Grief to Joy in Tech Policy (12:01–13:31)
• Industry-Advocacy Collaboration & Knowledge Gaps (14:12–17:16)
• The Myth of Inevitable Tech Progress (19:20–20:58)
• Challenges and Hope in Journalism (21:04–22:36)
• Advice for the Future from Jasmine McNeely (23:12–23:52)
• Cautions & Hope from Tech’s Critics (Chris Gilliard) (24:52–26:25)
• Action Over Hope & Lessons for the Next Generation (26:56–30:53)

Episode’s Tone & Takeaways

• The tone is reflective, honest, warm, vulnerable, and forward-looking, balancing realism with hope.
• Emphasis on both the challenges (mental, political, systemic) and the value of community, joy, and agency.
• Central themes: emotional honesty, cross-sector collaboration, reimagining tech’s trajectory, practical action, and the importance of equipping future leaders.

Final Thoughts

This episode serves as a capstone—both a reflective look back on the traumas and lessons of recent years and a heartfelt call to action and imagination for what tech policy, civil society, and democracy can become. Listeners are encouraged to engage as whole people, act before hope arrives, and rewrite tech policy’s future with a more humane and equitable vision.

Further Listening / Reading

• For more on the fellowship, guests, and series, visit https://techpolicy.press/
• Featured guests’ research and work are highlighted throughout the episode, inviting deeper ongoing exploration.