S1|E8: The First Day of the Rest of Your Life

Summary

The Sunshine Place: Episode S1|E8 - "The First Day of the Rest of Your Life"

Release Date: September 21, 2022
Host: Audacy Podcasts | Team Downey
Description:
Season 2 of "The Sunshine Place" explores the dark history of Straight Incorporated, an experimental teen rehab program in the 1980s that descended into a sadistic cult. Drawing parallels to Season 1's focus on Synanon, this episode delves into themes of abuse, control, and the enduring impact on families caught in the crossfire.

---

1. Personal Beginnings and Family Struggles

The episode opens with Sari Crawford reminiscing about her early life, sharing intimate family moments captured in old photos.

• [00:48] Sylvia Crawford:
  "I know. You were the cutest baby. Look at that little nose of yours. You were really adorable."

Sari details her congenital heart defect and the 26 surgeries she underwent, highlighting her mother's unwavering support.

• [01:11] Sylvia Crawford:
  "Yes. Yeah, you were like less than a month old. And you had long legs. You always were tall and unfortunately too thin because we found out that your heart wasn't working then."

Sari reveals that her parents were not her biological parents, adding another layer to her family's complex relationship with Synanon.

• [03:50] Sari Crawford:
  "There's something I haven't told you yet about my mom and dad. They're not my biological parents. I was conceived through in vitro fertilization from a donated egg, and sperm took me eight years."

2. The Synanon Connection and Parental Custody Battle

Sari uncovers her father's deep ties to Synanon and the ensuing conflict that arose when her parents left the community.

• [05:30] Sari Crawford:
  "But, you know, there's a picture of him here who is wearing a hat with the Synanon logo, and it has a line through it, and I don't think people realize that he was actively vocal against what Synanon had become."

The custody battle over her father's daughters becomes a focal point, illustrating the lengths Synanon's leadership would go to maintain control.

• [25:07] Sari Crawford:
  "My parents were going to take Synanon to court over custody of my dad's two daughters with his ex-wife, Miriam Bordet."

3. The Rattlesnake Incident: A Turning Point

The episode delves into the infamous rattlesnake incident, where Synanon was accused of attempting to murder Los Angeles lawyer Paul Morantz.

• [07:44] Nicole Lapin:
  "It was, police said, a case of attempted murder. The weapon, a rattlesnake, placed in this mailbox at the home of Los Angeles lawyer Paul Morantz."

Robert Navarro, a former Synanon investigator, provides insider insights into the event.

• [08:07] Sari Crawford:
  "This is Robert Navarro. He worked as an investigator in the Synanon legal department. In October of 1978, when Paul Morantz accused Synanon of putting a rattlesnake in his mailbox."

The incident catalyzed law enforcement action against Synanon, leading to massive raids and the unveiling of the organization's dark practices.

4. Leadership Under Siege and Internal Collapse

As law enforcement closed in, Synanon's internal structure began to crumble. Chuck Diedrich, Synanon's charismatic leader, faced mounting pressures.

• [16:21] Sari Crawford:
  "George Farnsworth had gone with Chuck to Italy and then followed him to Lake Havasu. George watched Chuck return to drinking and spiral back into alcoholism like he was back in the 1950s, before Synanon was even a thought in his mind."

Ron Cook, Synanon's president, reflects on the organization's paralysis in the face of Chuck's deteriorating leadership.

• [45:13] Sylvia Crawford:
  "The people around him did nothing. Sycophants, yes, people. Sure, we'll do that. We'll carry guns everywhere we go. We'll put a snake in a mailbox just for you."

5. The Aftermath: Legal Battles and Personal Trauma

Despite Chuck pleading no contest to conspiracy charges, the true extent of Synanon's criminal activities remained murky.

• [35:16] Robert Navarro:
  "Was it to kill him or was it just to scare him away? You know, that would have been very difficult for the prosecution to prove."

The episode highlights the personal toll on Sari's family, including her father's struggle with alcoholism and eventual tragic death.

• [68:54] Sari Crawford:
  "He overdosed on liquid morphine. He took an amount that he knew would end his life."

6. Legacy and Continuing Impact

"The Sunshine Place" draws connections between Synanon and the modern troubled teen industry, underscoring the enduring influence of Synanon's methodologies.

• [60:05] Sari Crawford:
  "There is now a multi-billion dollar troubled teen industry called tti. ... all based on Synanon."

Survivors like Zoe Bagger and Nicole Nieper share harrowing accounts of their experiences, emphasizing the long-term psychological scars left by Synanon.

• [61:20] Sari Crawford:
  "Psychological and physical torture."

7. Reflections on Leadership and Responsibility

Throughout the episode, various voices critique the leadership failures within Synanon and the collective responsibility of its members.

• [47:00] Jenna Fisher:
  "As we gather with loved ones this holiday season, consider how learning a new language can enhance your connections and enrich your experiences."
  (Note: This is actually an advertisement and is skipped in content summary.)

• [45:13] Sylvia Crawford:
  "It's not just the people who take the actions. It's the people who sit by and do nothing that are just as culpable and just as guilty."

8. Conclusion: Moving Forward from the Past

The episode concludes with reflections on healing and the challenges of moving beyond the traumatic legacy of Synanon.

• [70:20] Sylvia Crawford:
  "I'm wondering, where do we go from here? What's the future after this story's been told?"

Sari emphasizes the importance of understanding Synanon's history to prevent the repetition of such destructive movements.

• [59:08] Elena Broslovsky:
  "What we should be discussing is what did happen? And understanding. The answer to that question is understanding Synanon."

---

Notable Quotes

1. Sari Crawford on Her Father's Heroism:
   "[03:50] Sari Crawford: There's something I haven't told you yet about my mom and dad. They're not my biological parents. I was conceived through in vitro fertilization from a donated egg, and sperm took me eight years."

2. Robert Navarro on Synanon Leadership:
   "[08:31] Robert Navarro: It seems pretty unlikely that they would do this on their own. The more important thing was whether these guys acted on their own or whether they had marching orders."

3. Sylvia Crawford on Complicity:
   "[45:13] Sylvia Crawford: It's not just the people who take the actions. It's the people who sit by and do nothing that are just as culpable and just as guilty."

4. Sari Crawford on Personal Loss:
   "[58:50] Elena Broslovsky: ... we can never go back and make anything that happened in our past any better in real time."

---

Key Takeaways

• Synanon's Descent: Originally a rehab program, Synanon evolved into a controlling and abusive cult under Chuck Diedrich's leadership.

• Impact on Families: Families like Sari Crawford's experienced severe trauma, legal battles, and loss due to Synanon's oppressive practices.

• Rattlesnake Incident: A pivotal event that showcased Synanon's willingness to engage in extreme violence to protect its reputation and power.

• Legacy: Synanon's methodologies laid the groundwork for today's troubled teen industry, highlighting the need for accountability and regulation.

• Healing and Understanding: Survivors emphasize the importance of acknowledging past abuses to foster healing and prevent future occurrences.

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Final Thoughts

"The Sunshine Place" offers a compelling and heart-wrenching exploration of Synanon's dark legacy. Through personal testimonies and detailed recounting of events, the episode underscores the profound and lasting impact of Synanon's transformation from a therapeutic community to a violent cult. It serves as a crucial reminder of the dangers of unchecked power and the resilience of individuals striving to rebuild their lives amidst profound adversity.

Transcript

[Sari Crawford]

The DSW Black Friday sale is on.

[Jenna Fisher]

Take 30% off almost everything in stores and online right now. Yep, you heard that right. 30% off. Stock up on new shoes, bags and extras for you and yours from all.

[Sari Crawford]

The gift worthy brands you love.

[Elena Broslovsky]

But hurry.

[Jenna Fisher]

Black Friday can't last forever. Get to your DSW store or dsw.com.

[Sari Crawford]

ASAP to save big exclusions. Apply [e-mail] C13 originals. All right, so we got some pictures here. Let's see. This is you and me here.

[Sylvia Crawford]

I know. You were the cutest baby. Look at that little nose of yours. You were really adorable.

[Sari Crawford]

This is me and my mom, Sylvia. We're at my house in Texas. She's here visiting me for my 29th birthday. We're going through some of our old family photos. I must have been maybe a week old.

[Sylvia Crawford]

Yes. Yeah, you were like less than a month old. And you had long legs. You always were tall and unfortunately too thin because we found out that your heart wasn't working then.

[Sari Crawford]

I was born with something called a single ventricle congenital heart defect that meant that I only had one ventricle strong enough to pump blood through my body, which also meant that I wasn't receiving enough oxygen. I turned blue and was read my final rites. Then I had emergency surgery, which saved my life. When I finally went home, my dad, Bill Crawford, decided he was going to treat me like any other kid. And here I am on a little tiny roller coaster. I must be about three or four years old. And dad was like that. He'd put me right on it. And, you know, he'd encourage me to do things and he would say, you know, I'm just gonna let you do what you decide that you think you can hand. And I think as a kid, as a sick kid, that was important to live like that. And I'm glad that he was supportive of me and he didn't treat me fragile.

[Sylvia Crawford]

He really didn't think that you should be treated like somebody with a disability at all.

[Sari Crawford]

But it wasn't the end of my health issues. When I was six years old, I was sick again. And my mom was told that I'd likely reached the end of my life.

[Sylvia Crawford]

The doctors had told me to take you home, that there was nothing more they could do for you.

[Sari Crawford]

They told my mom to let me die at home in peace, but she refused to let that happen. I've had 26 surgeries since I was born, and my mom has been by my side for every one. Maybe it's just her instinct, but it May also be because she never thought she would be a mom in the first place. When she and my dad left Synanon, he was almost 50 years old. He'd already had kids, and thanks to Chuck Diedrich, he had had a vasectomy too.

[Sylvia Crawford]

I really wanted him to freeze his sperm because I knew that my biological drive was to have my own child. But it didn't work out.

[Sari Crawford]

There's something I haven't told you yet about my mom and dad. They're not my biological parents. I was conceived through in vitro fertilization from a donated egg, and sperm took me eight years.

[Sylvia Crawford]

But I had you, and you were beautiful the moment you were born. When I was young, I wanted to.

[Sari Crawford]

Be a hospital person so bad.

[Nicole Lapin]

Oh, I see.

[Sylvia Crawford]

I changed my mind to a babysitter and a mom. Bill was terrific about it once he got over his resistance. And he did totally adore you. Totally.

[Sari Crawford]

Yeah. He was a good man. I really loved him. I miss him. He was a good guy.

[Sylvia Crawford]

The best time. You have to leave in seconds.

[Nicole Lapin]

1. 1 second. So that's not much time. Not much.

[Sari Crawford]

My dad was my hero, but I didn't know a lot about his life in Synanon until recently. After hearing all of the stories from the people who knew him so well back then, including my mom, I've learned a lot about their lives together and about Synanon, too. But it hasn't all been about the past. Something that's been made painfully clear to me is that for a lot of people, Synadon never really ended.

[Sylvia Crawford]

I'm wondering what the future will be now that this podcast is out there and Synanon people have reacted in positive and negative ways. You've gotten some of that feedback. What do you think about that?

[Sari Crawford]

I've had people message me, you know, with all kinds of insults. There's a Synanon Facebook group that I've been a member for 10 years now, since I've been in high school. And just recently, they took a vote because of this podcast and threw me out. But I think their anger is misdirected. But, you know, I sympathize with these people, but I wish they weren't so angry at me. I wish they were angry at, you know, people like Chuck that took something so fantastic and drove it into the ground. My dad, Bill, he loved Synanon and still loved Synanon as it was. But, you know, there's a picture of him here who is wearing a hat with the Synanon logo, and it has a line through it, and I don't think people realize that he was actively vocal against what Synanon had become. The two main rules were no violence of any kind. No threats of violence, no physical violence. And the second rule was no drugs or alcohol, no mind altering substances. And once Synanon broke those two rules, it wasn't Synanon anymore. My name is Sari Crawford and this is the Sunshine place.

[Nicole Lapin]

It was, police said, a case of attempted murder. The weapon, a rattlesnake, placed in this mailbox at the home of Los Angeles lawyer Paul Morantz. When Morantz put his hand in the.

[Ron Cook]

Box the night before last, when the.

[Robert Navarro]

Morantz thing happened, when it was in the news, I knew immediately that it was synonymous. I mean, who else would it be?

[Sari Crawford]

This is Robert Navarro. He worked as an investigator in the Synanon legal department. In October of 1978, when Paul Morantz accused Synanon of putting a rattlesnake in his mailbox.

[Robert Navarro]

I didn't know who did it. And even in most of the law department, nobody knew the facts of what had happened or who was involved.

[Sari Crawford]

Chuck kept himself so insulated that if Synanon was involved, very few people would have known the details. The official stance inside the community was that the rattlesnake attack was just more media propaganda. But the press believed Paul Morantz and they ran with it.

[Nicole Lapin]

And today in Los Angeles, police are.

[Ron Cook]

Looking into a charge that is bizarre.

[Nicole Lapin]

Even by cult standards.

[Sari Crawford]

It became the biggest story yet about Synanon.

[Nicole Lapin]

This is a Channel 7 news scene special report with our continuing coverage of.

[Jenna Fisher]

The People's Temple story and the murder.

[Nicole Lapin]

Of Congressman Leo Ryan. Now with the latest details, Van Amberg and Marsha Brantwen.

[Sari Crawford]

One month later, a different cult story overshadowed the snake in the mailbox. Jonestown.

[Nicole Lapin]

I also have to warn you that what you're about to see almost defies description. And some of you may not want to watch it as soon as these pictures from Jones.

[Sari Crawford]

It was one of the most shocking events in American history. Jim Jones, the leader of a religious group called the people's temple, convinced 900 of his followers to commit mass suicide by drinking Kool Aid laced with cyanide.

[Nicole Lapin]

Even a lot of hardened news people reacted in horror and disbelief.

[Sari Crawford]

It was prompted by paranoia over a government investigation at his compound in Guyana.

[Nicole Lapin]

Cultists who believed in everything that Jim Jones said took their own lives.

[Robert Navarro]

We had a relationship with People's Temple. When we saw the pictures on television, we said those Adidas outfits that they were wearing came from Synanon. Maybe two weeks before Jonestown Happened. I and other people were working with them to send them supplies. I remember I was offering blankets and mattresses and stuff like that. Other people were sending them clothing, food and Kool Aid. It wasn't Kool Aid. It was some off brand, but it was, you know, same thing.

[Sari Crawford]

My mom had left Synanon by then, but she remembers being disturbed by the news.

[Sylvia Crawford]

We made Kool Aid also. We had these big vats of the stuff. And, you know, jokingly, we called it the Red Death. Well, that turned out to be what poisoned all those people. And why would those people, 900 people, go to Guyana? Because there was a better life. What was Synanon? It was a better life. Is Synanon capable of that at that point? Hmm, it's possible. And that scared me that it was possible that it would be even a thought. I don't think I'm the only one who thought that.

[Sari Crawford]

News of the People's Temple added urgency to Paul Marantz's claims. And he wasn't the only one pointing the finger at Synanon.

[Robert Navarro]

There were people who supplied tips to the police department, ex Synanon residents. It became evident through the investigation that the police were pursuing, that they had certain persons of interest.

[Sari Crawford]

The weapon of choice, a rattlesnake, was so specific that Synanon informants all made the same the Imperial Marines. The Imperial Marines were Chuck's special operations force. They trained in the wilderness near the home place in Badger, California, which was full of rattlesnakes that they hunted. Like the name suggested, the Marines were supposed to be the best of the best in Synanon. They were capable, they were disciplined, and they followed orders. Witnesses saw two men at Paul Morantz's house on the day of the incident. The theory was that they were Imperial Marines, that they had put the snake in the mailbox, and that someone told them to do it.

[Robert Navarro]

It seems pretty unlikely that they would do this on their own. The more important thing was whether these guys acted on their own or whether they had marching orders. Ultimately, what the police were looking for was to find out Chuck's involvement.

[Sari Crawford]

In November of 1978, a task force headed up by the LAPD conducted a raid on the home place.

[Robert Navarro]

It was a very formidable raid. There was just a line of police cars on this mountain road, and there were helicopters, you know, police helicopters.

[Sari Crawford]

Law enforcement seized volumes of tape, speeches, Synod games, and board meetings that Chuck had insisted on recording over the years.

[Robert Navarro]

It was all going to be fodder for the criminal case.

[Sari Crawford]

Law enforcement began combing through the Evidence trying to build a case to prosecute Chuck for the rattlesnake incident. The Synanon legal department did the same thing, trying to come up with a defense.

[Robert Navarro]

And there was just hours and hours and hours of listening to every tape, going through documents and security. I remember reading a report to Chuck's office. It had a section in it called October is the month of the hunt. In October, these people are going to be tracked down and they are going to be given consequences for whatever transgression they had. There was sort of a hit list, and that's what was being approved at the highest levels.

[Sari Crawford]

Amongst the tapes that the police confiscated was the new religious posture speech, where Chuck talks for more than 15 minutes about cracked bones, ears in jars, death threats, and enemies of Synanon, including greedy lawyers. Robert remembers another tape as well.

[Robert Navarro]

There was a game at the home place that happened not long after Chuck came back from his European adventure. In the game, Chuck was raving about Paul Morantz. It was a Thomas Beckett situation. You know, who's going to rid me of this meddlesome priest?

[Sari Crawford]

Chuck Diedrich wasn't at the home place on the day of the raid. He wasn't in California at all. He was in Lake Havasu, Arizona, with members of his inner circle. He had bought a hotel there and some apartments in the surrounding area. He was talking about starting over again.

[Nicole Lapin]

He rented a little house in Lake Havasu, not far from the hotel.

[Sari Crawford]

George Farnsworth had gone with Chuck to Italy and then followed him to Lake Havasu. George watched Chuck return to drinking and spiral back into alcoholism like he was back in the 1950s, before Synanon was even a thought in his mind.

[Nicole Lapin]

He was drinking better Class of hooch, but he was rock bottom. He was drinking Chivas all the time. They were buying it by the case. And he would finish off several bottles a day. I, along with others, protested this. We tell the people who were closest to Chuck he should be ordered to stop and should be cut off because it was very bad for him. It was very bad for Sydenham to have this drunk, as the founder and chairman of the board and so on. His crony said, we can't do that. And they would say things like, he saved my life and I can't tell him he can't drink. There was no way to convince his closest associates.

[Sari Crawford]

On December 2, 1978, Chuck's home in Lake Havasu, Arizona, was raided by police, too. Reports said they found him in a drunken stupor. Chuck Diedrich was arrested and Charged with conspiracy to commit murder.

[Ron Cook]

I got a telephone call saying, come quick. Chuck is being arrested.

[Sari Crawford]

This is Ron Cook, who was Sydenon's president. He was in Lake Havasu with Chuck when he was arrested.

[Ron Cook]

I leave my apartment to walk over to Chuck's house. There were police officers with shotguns pointed at me, so I just looked at him, and I just kept walking. I went over to Chuck's house, and Chuck was on a stretcher. He was being arrested, but they took him out on an ambulance stretcher. And he looked up at me. He says, oh, thank God Ron's here. It was almost like, oh, everything's safe. You know, Ron's here. And I felt so bad seeing him like that.

[Nicole Lapin]

They decided he couldn't be put in any sort of jail because he had to be detoxed. They put him in a hotel room. We were assigned by the powers that be in Synon to sit with him or outside his room to make sure that he was not forced to testify.

[Sylvia Crawford]

When Dieterich was arrested yesterday, his lawyers claimed he was drunk and mentally incompetent and unable to go to court for his arraignment. His doctor diagnosed his condition as acute depression. So a local justice of the peace went to the hospital for a closed hearing to read Dieterich the murder charges against him. Dieterich did not speak.

[Elena Broslovsky]

He did not plead guilty or not guilty.

[Sylvia Crawford]

Instead, his case was conducted until January 2, when Los Angeles authorities will try and have him moved from Arizona to California.

[Ron Cook]

I was told by the lawyers and the doctors that after he was arrested in Arizona, he had had a stroke. That damaged part of his brain that had to do with memory and emotion. You say, well, is that true? Is this just a legal ploy that the doctors and the lawyers got together and did, or is it a reality? Well, the reality was there was something wrong that didn't exist before, and I saw him as a human being breaking down.

[Jenna Fisher]

This message comes from greenlight. Ready to start talking to your kids about financial literacy? Meet greenlight, the debit card and money app that teaches kids and teens how to earn, save, spend wisely, and invest. With your guardrails in place, with greenlight, you can send money to kids instantly. Set up chores, automate allowance, and keep an eye on your kids spending with real time notifications. Join millions of parents and kids building healthy financial habits together on greenlight. Sign up for Greenlight [e-mail] Odyssey. I'm Jenna Fisher. And I'm Angela Kinsey. We are best friends, and together we have the podcast office Ladies, where we rewatched every single episode of the Office with insane behind the scenes stories, hilarious guests, and lots of laughs. Guess who's sitting next to me? Steve.

[Sari Crawford]

In the studio.

[Jenna Fisher]

Every Wednesday, we'll be sharing even more exclusive stories from the Office and our friendship with brand new guests. And we'll be digging into our mail bag to answer your questions and comments. So join us for brand new Office Ladies 6.0 episodes every Wednesday. Plus, on Mondays, we are taking a second drink. You can revisit all the Office Ladies rewatch episodes every Monday with new bonus tidbits before every episode. Well, we can't wait to see you there. Follow and listen to Office Ladies on the free Odyssey app and wherever you get your podcasts.

[Sylvia Crawford]

We were terrified. We locked every door. I didn't want to go to the bathroom without him walking. I mean, we walked each other around the house.

[Sari Crawford]

This is my mom talking about hiding out after she and my dad escaped from Synanon in January of 1978. They were followed on their way out of the facility in Santa Monica, but they got away in a cab. My dad was responsible for documenting everything in Synanon, including all the violence. And he knew that it went all the way up the chain of command to Chuck. My parents were afraid for their lives, but they were also confused about what to do with their lives. My mom had been in Synanon for almost a decade and my dad had been there for almost two.

[Sylvia Crawford]

I was 30 something, right? Bill was 48 and we had nothing. I can remember going to the grocery store for the first time after leaving Synanon and thinking, wow. And we were looking at the coffee. I remember specifically looking at the coffee aisle and going, whoa, there's all these. We didn't have this in synonym. We had a coffee urn, you know, decaf and regular and so making all these decisions, coffee and, you know, what do you eat? I don't know. We were. We were like babes starting over. It wasn't easy.

[Sari Crawford]

They figured things out slowly and started building a life together outside of Synanon. They got jobs at a school for disadvantaged kids. They found a place of their own to live. Chuck always told them that they'd fall down a manhole if they left, but they landed on their feet. There was something big missing from their new lives, though, especially from my dad.

[Sylvia Crawford]

His daughters, Naomi and Rebecca. Leaving the girls behind in Synanon was very hard for him. We didn't want to put them in that position of telling them that we were leaving and then having them to keep a secret like that. They were young. They were five and six years old. They were babies. Now here we are. We're established. We have a house, we have a car, we have a job, a place for the kids. We filed for custody not long after we left Synanon.

[Sari Crawford]

My parents were going to take Synanon to court over custody of my dad's two daughters with his ex wife, Miriam Bordet.

[Sylvia Crawford]

Bill left because of changing partners. They got back together and just decided to leave.

[Sari Crawford]

And they left.

[Nicole Lapin]

And there wasn't anything that I recall being unceremonious about it other than it was pretty abrupt.

[Sylvia Crawford]

There was nothing that was a problem.

[Nicole Lapin]

About it until he sought custody of them.

[Sari Crawford]

Miriam was very close to Chuck. She lived with him when she came to Synanon from the East Coast. She called him Big Daddy. When Chuck made everyone in Synanon change partners, Miriam married one of the top lawyers in the Synanon legal department, and he was going to represent her in the trial. So he was working on behalf of his stepdaughters, trying to keep them in Synanon away from my parents. My dad helped build Synanon, but now he was just another splatie trying to get his kids out. And that was a dangerous position to be in. They started getting harassed.

[Sylvia Crawford]

We were being recorded and followed. Letters were sent to try to get us fired from our jobs.

[Sari Crawford]

The custody case went to court, and the harassment turned into intimidation.

[Sylvia Crawford]

There were Synanon people that we knew in the courtroom and these big dudes, you know, the Synanon, whatever they called them. Militia, the thugs. I called them the Synanon thugs. When the snake in the mailbox happened, our lawyer calls us up and says, should I be worried that something's going to happen to me? I said to Miriam, I just heard about this thing that's. They're accusing Synanon of putting a snake in a mailbox of this Paul Moran's. She goes, oh, we didn't do that. We think he did that himself for publicity. I said, he almost died. I didn't know what sin and I was going to do. We could walk out of the courtroom, they could throw us down the stairs. I didn't trust them anymore. There was a lot of reason to fear that they would take retribution on us.

[Sari Crawford]

Those reasons were obvious. Paul Morantz, Bill Ritter, and the dozens of other incidents that they knew about before they left Synanon. But there was something they didn't know about. Remember what Robert Navarro said earlier?

[Robert Navarro]

There was sort of a hit list.

[Sari Crawford]

It was a piece of evidence that the LAPD was using to build their case against Chuck. But it became public when it was published on the UPI Newswire.

[Sylvia Crawford]

As you look at the list, you know, of course, Paul Morantz was on it. Phil Ritter is on the list, and Bill Crawford is on the list. And I'm saying, what the hell is going on here? Well, I have no patience for this stuff. I called Miriam and I said to her, do you have any knowledge of this hit list that Bill is on that's published in the newspaper? He's the father of your children. How could you let something like that happen? How could it even be discussed? How could it be in a newspaper? How could anybody do that? She said, I don't know what you're talking about. I have no idea. I said, well, you should find out, because I want you to know something. If something happens to Bill, I am going to make sure that they know that it was you. And those people in Synanon.

[Sari Crawford]

Here'S Miriam.

[Sylvia Crawford]

People that I knew were involved in bad things.

[Nicole Lapin]

I had explicitly told, don't you ever.

[Sylvia Crawford]

Do anything to Bill, because Bill is the father of my children.

[Nicole Lapin]

Because I knew what happened to Phil Ritter, and I certainly didn't want anybody doing anything like that to Bill.

[Sari Crawford]

The judge awarded my parents joint custody of the kids, even though the rattlesnake was all over the news. And despite Chuck's policies on parenting in Synanon, it was determined that the kids shouldn't be separated from their mother, Miriam, entirely. When it was my parents turn to have the kids, they had to pick them up at Synanon.

[Sylvia Crawford]

We went up to Tomales Bay to pick up the children. Everybody else was like, you know, these sour, ugly faces, like we were criminals or something. Anyway, to them, we were. It was hurtful, and it almost brings me to tears to think about your family and your family turning against you in so many ways.

[Sari Crawford]

Miriam said something about that part of the story that my mom never told me.

[Nicole Lapin]

Unbeknownst to me, at the time, when they were dropping the kids off from a visit, they were run off the.

[Sylvia Crawford]

Road by some Synanon people.

[Nicole Lapin]

I don't know who.

[Sylvia Crawford]

I don't know who ordered.

[Sari Crawford]

But I.

[Nicole Lapin]

Found out later somebody told me, oh, and by the way, I apologized to Sylvia.

[Sylvia Crawford]

I said, what for? He said, well, you know, for having their truck run down.

[Nicole Lapin]

I said, was that by sitting on people? I mean, I just thought they went.

[Sari Crawford]

Off the road, which is easy to do.

[Nicole Lapin]

It's a very windy road.

[Sari Crawford]

My dad never let his guard down about Synanon after he left, and I don't know how he could have. His name was on a hit list next to a man that was beaten into a coma and another who was bitten by a venomous snake. It changed the course of the rest of his life. My mom and I talked about it.

[Sylvia Crawford]

When I met new people. It wasn't till I knew them very well and could trust them that I would say anything about my former life. And I think Bill. I think Bill often didn't say anything about it.

[Sari Crawford]

I think he held a lot of trauma there. And I think, you know, the way they treated dad, the way they exiled him, the way they, you know, threatened to kill him, they threatened to, you know, beat him up. They threatened to, you know, kill his pets. You know, the fact that he carried guns and was paranoid, I think that impacted Bill and therefore impacted me in a way. Because, dad, he got back into drugs and alcohol, and he was a really, really, really bad alcoholic.

[Sylvia Crawford]

He said, well, Synanon's drinking. Maybe we should do that. So first it was one glass of wine when we went out to dinner, and then. So two glasses is fine. Then he was hiding bottles in his drawer. So, yeah, he was a bad addict, and he had an addictive personality, and it changed him. And it certainly did away with his life and ruined our life together, because I was angry about that.

[Sari Crawford]

And, yeah, and he would fall downstairs and crack his head open.

[Sylvia Crawford]

And, yeah, he didn't.

[Sari Crawford]

He was a bad, bad, bad drunk. And he was. He was mean when he was drunk. He would. He loved us girls. But the only time I think he ever said mean things was when he was drunk.

[Sylvia Crawford]

I'm sorry. I'm really sorry.

[Sari Crawford]

My dad had demons that he was never able to conquer. I'm not trying to absolve him of that, but I don't fully blame him either. I blame what happened to him in Synanon, and I blame Chuck. Paul Morantz blamed Chuck for what happened to him, too. The criminal case against Chuck for the rattlesnake incident finally went to court in 1980. Chuck pleaded no contest to conspiracy to commit murder. Chuck took a plea deal. As punishment, he was forced to step down as the leader of Synanon. Officially, despite all the tapes and documents and testimony, he didn't have to serve a day of jail time. Robert Navarro says that the case against Chuck wasn't as clear cut as you.

[Robert Navarro]

Might expect, proving the conspiracy at the top and what the intent was. Was it to kill him or was it just to scare him away? You know, that would have been very difficult for the prosecution to prove. And I think they just settled for this, and they could take that off their books.

[Sari Crawford]

While Chuck avoided going to jail. Somebody had to. The two primary suspects in the Rattlesnake incident were in fact, Imperial Marines. They were two young men named Joe Musico and Lance Kenton. Musico was a Vietnam veteran who came to Synanon as a drug addict. Lance Kenton grew up in Sinanon. He was only 20 years old at the time of the incident. Here's Rod Mullen, who was the director of the school and the punk squad. He and his wife were close with.

[Nicole Lapin]

Lance and Joe, and they started telling her what the hell was going on. And then she would tell me. And at first, I didn't want to believe it. I said that can't. That can't be happening, and that the people who directed them never got punished. There was no moral compass whatsoever. So I was just using people. And it was all about preserving Chuck.

[Sari Crawford]

Joe Musico and Lance Kenton were each sentenced to a year in LA County Jail, even though they were the ones that carried out the most notorious acts of violence in the history of Synanon. Rod sees them as victims of Chuck Diedrich.

[Nicole Lapin]

They were like, you know, any kind of young soldiers. They were protecting Synanon, and they're patriotic. You know, they're not looking for what's really going on, and they think they're doing the right thing. The root of this is this tremendous desire to do something really important, willing to sacrifice yourself for what you believe is a larger cause. And it was a terrible abuse. Joe was traumatized by Vietnam and desperate for approval by his own family. So, you know, having dad tell him, this is something where you could really be accepted in the community. Yeah, he went for it like a dog for a bone, man.

[Sari Crawford]

Robert Navarro remembers something else about Joe Musico.

[Robert Navarro]

I used to work what we call the Kinect, which is like the reception desk at a hotel. You know, he'd go to the connect to find out, you know, where somebody lived and all that kind of stuff, and to check out cars. And Joe Music Bill came up to me. He wanted to check out a car, but then he said, it's gotta be a car that doesn't have any synonym insignia on it. I looked around. I must have found one, because I gave him the keys to a car. But I thought it was a little odd that he wanted, you know, an untraceable car. The next day, Phil Ritter was beaten on the streets. It wasn't too much of a wild guess to surmise that Joe Musical was involved in that beating.

[Sari Crawford]

It was later determined that it was Joe Musico and another Imperial Marine who attacked Phil Ritter. Phil considers himself lucky, not only because he survived, but because he and his wife Lynn are happily married to this day. Lynn stayed behind in Synanon when Phil left the community, and she matched with somebody else during Changing Partners. And when Phil threatened to take Chuck to court over the custody of his kids with Lynn, he nearly paid for it with his life. But he and Lynn found their way back to each other.

[Nicole Lapin]

Last year was our 50th year of. 50th year being married, if you count all the time off. We're going to sign up for another year.

[Sylvia Crawford]

Right.

[Sari Crawford]

But to me, that's not even the most amazing part of Phil Ritter's Synanon story. There's something that I admire him for but can't wrap my head around. He doesn't have any hard feelings about what happened to him.

[Nicole Lapin]

I don't blame most of the people or any of the people, I guess, involved at some level in ordering my attack. Buddy and Rod Mullen and some of those other people who were involved at the upper levels of the Imperial Marines.

[Sari Crawford]

Here's Buddy Jones, who was Chuck's personal bodyguard.

[Nicole Lapin]

I would be lying if I didn't know about the inner workings of that. And. And when it happened to Phil, I went directly to Chuck. He says, I don't know what you're going to do, but that is wrong. That's just wrong. You're going to do what you're going to do anyway. But I want you to know that's wrong.

[Sari Crawford]

Rod Mullen.

[Nicole Lapin]

Well, we heard about it and tried to stop it, but that was the kind of things that were going on. You could be a person with respect one day and an enemy the next, and Chuck became every ugly dictator, completely intoxicated with their power and completely immoral. And that's frightening to see from somebody that you genuinely felt was a moral human being to become this ugly person capable of just directing violence. And it brought out the worst in people. It brings out the shadow side. Many cases, a shadow that they didn't know was there. It was a long, very dark night, and it took me several years to really, I think, recover from it. And this heartbreaking awakening that you've been part of something that was horrible and destructive and inhumane, and you didn't really understand it until it got to to a point where it was undeniable. The story of Synanon is an old story. It's a repetitive story and, you know, hard to talk about.

[Ron Cook]

Ron Cook Synanon turned into something different. It's just too bad Chuck went crazy and he couldn't be reined in. There were five members of the executive committee. I was one of them. And there would be conversations. Something needs to be done. You know, Chuck Swacko, we need an intervention. And then you'd say, what are we going to do? Nobody knows what the hell to do. Who are we going to call? What are we going to do? Are we going to restrain them? Are we going to take the founder of Synanon perp, walk him out of the place? Are we going to give him some injections, put them on a stretcher, take them to a crazy house and lock them up? I mean, what are you going to do? Basically, the group of people who were in charge after Chuck went goofy or incapable of acting, they were paralyzed. You know, when I grew up, my father was an alcoholic. He was divorced from my mother by the time I was three. And I really wanted a father and didn't have one. And listen, he's a father figure. You want his approval, you know, so it's not even just your family trying to do something about your father. It's a community. And then you've got, you know, a thousand people that are involved. You know, are they going to go along with whatever you decide to do, or are they going to stop you? It's a shame something couldn't have been done, but I don't think anything could have been done. I don't see how after all these years, looking back and saying, well, if we had done this or doing that, I don't see how anything could have been done. What would you do? You know, I like to say that to these people who say somebody should have said something. Why didn't you do something? What would you have done? They just all sat around and watched.

[Sylvia Crawford]

The people around him did nothing. Sycophants, yes, people. Sure, we'll do that. We'll carry guns everywhere we go. We'll put a snake in a mailbox just for you. Didn't you have any moral sense of who you. Well, it was the times. It was, you know, we were doing what we were told. Oh, really? What else did you do that you were told to do? It's not just the people who take the actions. It's the people who sit by and do nothing that are just as culpable and just as guilty. I am first generation in this country. My parents and my grandparents lived through a fascist country Germany and survived. It made me completely aware of a single man like Chuck taking over people's lives and their thoughts. No doubt he was charismatic and people were afraid of him, but also loved him, devoted themselves to him for what? That's just crazy, right? All right, but that's what happens in a cult.

[Jenna Fisher]

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[Nicole Lapin]

Cranberry sauce or who should get mini.

[Jenna Fisher]

Marshmallows for the yams, or collecting votes for sugar cookies versus shortbread. Just share a cart and then share the meals and the moments. Download the Instacart app and get delivery in as fast as 30 minutes. Plus enjoy free delivery on your first three orders. Service fees and terms apply.

[Sari Crawford]

This episode is brought to you by US Cellular.

[Elena Broslovsky]

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[Sari Crawford]

You know what's not worth waiting for?

[Elena Broslovsky]

The cable guy.

[Jenna Fisher]

Fortunately, US Cellular's home Internet is so.

[Sari Crawford]

Simple to install, you can do it.

[Jenna Fisher]

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[Sari Crawford]

When bundled with a wireless plan with.

[Elena Broslovsky]

A three year price Lock guarantee US.

[Jenna Fisher]

Cellular home Internet made simple without the waiting terms apply.

[Sari Crawford]

Visit us cellular.com for details.

[Nicole Lapin]

Hey, McDonald, get him down to Chuck's office.

[Sari Crawford]

This is a scene from a 1961 documentary about Synanon called David Jimmy, you can't wave now. In it, a Synanon member named Jimmy is getting ready to split.

[Elena Broslovsky]

I watched that film David, where it shows Chuck in 1961 with a group of 60 people doing something that really was revolutionary.

[Sari Crawford]

Here's Elena Broslovsky, who you've heard throughout this podcast. She was a shepherd on the trip, a mother in the hatchery, and close to Betty Diedrich during her final days.

[Sylvia Crawford]

Going into the old man's office.

[Elena Broslovsky]

So there's this one scene in the movie where I see Chuck is hugging somebody who is distraught because another member quit and went back to using drugs. And she cared so deeply about him because she had invested in watching him kick and, you know, being in games with him and trying to keep him straight. And he just left.

[Nicole Lapin]

You've seen a compulsion at work. Yeah, he can no more stop leaving here than he can stop breathing.

[Elena Broslovsky]

I was struck because I didn't know the younger Chuck with a smoother face, and he wasn't quite as heavy and his body wasn't burdening him. He moved freer, and he was so filled with passion for what he and they were doing. And he was very loving. My husband said, do you ever remember him hugging anyone? And I didn't. I began to think about the Chuck I knew in comparison to the Chuck in that movie. And I believe that the hierarchy of Synanon, as it got heavier and heavier and more developed, I believe it became a burden to him.

[Sari Crawford]

After the rattlesnake incident, Chuck was ordered to step down as the leader of Synan. But strangely, he was still allowed to live in the community. And so he still very much wielded power over the people who remained there with him. His daughter JD Was in charge, but there was no replacing Chuck. Alaina says she and her peers tried.

[Elena Broslovsky]

I remember him saying at one time, I'm not going to let you people have it. I'm not going to let you people run it into the ground and thinking, oh, no, maybe he didn't like the way we would have run it. We would have done things differently. And he did not want to give that up. I was ready, and that's what I wanted to do. I wanted to keep it going even in a diminished form. There was such a power to these people, all these people who had so many different skills. And came from so many different backgrounds, being willing to share our lives together, that was an incredible power that I didn't want to give up. But I was obviously not in the majority, and there were a lot of younger people there and wanted to go out into that other world and try their wings.

[Sari Crawford]

As the decade of the 1980s wore on, the population of Synanon declined every year. So did Chuck's health. He was still recording a lot of what he said and doing what he called summing up his life.

[Elena Broslovsky]

And my job was to record that. So I heard a lot of his thoughts. And at the time, I had not had the personal experience with mental illness. I didn't know how to categorize the fact that his viewpoints would be so different from one day to the next. And he was diagnosed manic depression, bipolar. Pretty sure that's what it was. He was on medication, and he himself said, I built Synanon with that manic energy, and then I destroyed it in my depression.

[Sari Crawford]

The violence, the drinking, the authoritarian control, the increasingly bizarre social experiments, the snake in the mailbox. Most people will point to those things as the reasons that caused the utopian dream of Synanon to die. Technically, though, it was the money. By the end of the 1980s, the IRS was wrapping up an investigation into Synanon's tax exempt status. It had started back in 1974, the same year Chuck declared Synanon was a religion. Robert Navarro worked on the application to the irs.

[Robert Navarro]

It was turned down. The real problem that the IRS had with Synanon is that our dopamine program was long in the tooth. It wasn't enough to call ourselves the premier rehabilitation program in the United States anymore. That ship had sailed a long time before. Because of Synanon's social experiments. We got cut off from donation revenues because people didn't like what was going on. So we had to rely more on our own people to bring in money and our own businesses. And we made a lot of money in lawsuits, and that kept us going. We were so reliant on that that if that was determined to be not within our 501C3 status, then our goose was cooked. And it got cooked.

[Sari Crawford]

The IRS issued a $55 million tax lien on Synanon, and we didn't have the money.

[Robert Navarro]

This game over for sure. Well, closed Synanon was the IRS decision.

[Elena Broslovsky]

I remember when it was starting to close down and everybody was leaving, that all my friends left.

[Sari Crawford]

Zoe Bagger spoke in an earlier episode about the abuse and neglect of her childhood. She was made to wear signs around her neck and forced to live in tents. Zoe was one of the last children born in Synanon. She was also one of the last children left in Synanon altogether before it finally closed its doors in 1991.

[Elena Broslovsky]

It was like a ghost town. Like, at the end, it was literally just me on a property all by myself. There were no other kids around.

[Sari Crawford]

Zoe, like almost every synodine kid, is still dealing with the trauma from her childhood and trying to learn from it. She's a mother now herself, but it's taken a lot of work, and a lot of that work is focused on her relationship with her own mom, Corey, who put Zoe in the Synanon school and left to join the sales team.

[Elena Broslovsky]

It was a conversation I had with my mom after Synanon. I said something like, why didn't you want me? And she said, we can never go back. You can never be my baby. I can never go back and make anything that happened in our past any better in real time. All I can do is be here now, and you're here now, and I want to be a part of your life.

[Sari Crawford]

Here's Corey.

[Sylvia Crawford]

And I just said, you know, I screwed up. I didn't have a good childhood.

[Sari Crawford]

I thought this was a way to.

[Ron Cook]

Get you a good childhood.

[Sari Crawford]

And I'm sorry.

[Elena Broslovsky]

You know, at the heart of it, she loved me, you know, and she wanted me to be in her life, and I wanted her to be in my life. And I think it was worth it.

[Sari Crawford]

Because I love my mom.

[Elena Broslovsky]

We were just open about it. And for these people who refuse to acknowledge that anything other than the way they saw it happen, they don't even recognize that they're part of the problem in the sense that, once again, somebody's telling me I don't count. What we should be discussing is what did happen? And understanding. The answer to that question is understanding Synanon. That's the value of Synanon. The value isn't my story or the next person's story. It's all of our story. Because at the end of the day, the place that I lived is historical. It relates to an entire segment of society that still exists. Drug rehab and helping troubled teens.

[Sari Crawford]

There is now a multi billion dollar troubled teen industry called tti. There are thousands of programs throughout the world, all based on tough love principles that can be traced directly back to Synanon. They take the form of wilderness programs, boot camps, boarding schools, behavior modification programs, and the list goes on and on. Well over 100,000 children are part of these programs today, and they are historically under regulated and unaccountable. Reports of abuse and even deaths are rampant.

[Elena Broslovsky]

And I think about these other groups that started as a result of Synanon. I think one of them is cedu, C, E, D, U, which I guess is supposed to be CE University after Charles E D. When you hear them talking about stuff, it's way worse.

[Sylvia Crawford]

It was a nightmare. Psychological and physical torture.

[Sari Crawford]

This is Nicole Nieper. She attended cedu, which was founded by a former Synanon member in San Bernardino, California. Nicole says that the official narrative is that Sea Doo stands for something else.

[Sylvia Crawford]

We were told it meant see yourself and do something with it.

[Sari Crawford]

We went through game sessions, but they.

[Sylvia Crawford]

Called them by a different name called raps.

[Sari Crawford]

And if we weren't doing that, it.

[Sylvia Crawford]

Was manual labor, no education, very, very, very little.

[Sari Crawford]

And I even got history credits for chopping wood.

[Nicole Lapin]

When I heard the podcast and I.

[Sylvia Crawford]

Heard Mike Gimbel telling his story, it.

[Sari Crawford]

Was like I was back at Sea Doo.

[Nicole Lapin]

5, 4, 3, 2, 1. Hi, welcome to Straight Talk. I'm Mike Gimbel, your host, and today we're going to be talking about the most deadly drug in America, fentanyl. Over 100,000Americans.

[Sari Crawford]

This is Mike Gimbel recording the introduction for his television show Straight Talk, which He's hosted since 1984, which is still.

[Nicole Lapin]

On the air and syndicated to 12 cities across the country and on YouTube.

[Sari Crawford]

Mike was a teenager with a dangerous heroin addiction before getting clean in Synanon. But then he found himself in an even more dangerous situation, working for Chuck Diedrich and his inner circle during Synanon's most violent period. But it wasn't the violence that finally made him decide to leave. It was losing his wife during changing partners.

[Nicole Lapin]

And I said, look, I gotta leave. I just can't do this. And I know I'm standing in the way, and maybe it's just time. I said, but I really don't want to get the crap beat out of me for leaving. But they put me in the back of a pickup truck and drove me into San Francisco with no money, just to close on my back and drop me off in the middle of San Francisco in the middle of the night.

[Sari Crawford]

By splittee standards, Mike had it easy. Mike called his parents from a payphone. They sent him a plane ticket, and he went back home to Baltimore. He had to start his life all over again, just like my parents did and so many others who had left Synanon. He had no job experience and no resume, but he had a Story to tell about addiction.

[Nicole Lapin]

I was going out speaking five, six times a week to schools, to churches, anybody that would listen.

[Sari Crawford]

Then an opportunity came his way.

[Nicole Lapin]

The county government was hiring a drug czar, and I got nominated. But I was up against two PhDs who wanted the job. And the county executive said, look, you've been through it. I'm going to give you the job. And I held that job for 24 years. And I kind of made a pledge to God that if he kept me clean, that I would keep doing the work.

[Sari Crawford]

Mike has dedicated his life after Synanon to addressing the problems of addiction. Despite everything that Synanon took from him, Mike is still grateful for what it did for him.

[Nicole Lapin]

I went into Synanon on October 1, 1972, and that was the last day I've ever used drugs. Synanon saved my life, no question about it.

[Sari Crawford]

Synanon gave Mike Gimbel a chance to start over in life. Elena Broslovsky remembers Chuck as his life was coming to an end.

[Elena Broslovsky]

I would visit him from time to time after he was moved into a care home. And he had no idea who I was at that point. And then he said, so why are you here visiting this old fart? And I just remember saying, because I love this old fart. I had no idea who I was, and I left. And that was the last time I saw him. You know, just like any other family member that has moments of glory and then gets sick, gets old, and they come to the end of their life, we're all going to lose our memory of this life and exit it at some point. He had a hard life before Synanon, a hard drinker, and crashed and burned and then found a way to pull himself up and to pull a lot of people up and to make an incredible contribution to the world and then lose it. It was a tragedy.

[Sari Crawford]

Chuck Diedrich died on February 28, 1997.

[Jenna Fisher]

Comments from friends at the gathering for Bill Crawford on Sunday, September 5, 2004.

[Nicole Lapin]

There are probably, I'll be conservative, a.

[Robert Navarro]

Thousand people out there who are now.

[Nicole Lapin]

Living a better life because of all.

[Robert Navarro]

The things that Bill Crawford's done. So that that's the way I feel about old Bill, who I know this.

[Sari Crawford]

Is a tape recording from my dad's Celebration of Life ceremony.

[Nicole Lapin]

Your body's changed, Bill, but your mind's the same, you sound the same, your voice is the same. And if there's anybody's voice, I heard more in Synanon, it was yours.

[Sari Crawford]

And my dad was in attendance because in the Synanon community. They don't wait until you die to tell you how much you mean to them.

[Nicole Lapin]

You invited me to work trips and we went down to.

[Sari Crawford]

Here's my dad.

[Nicole Lapin]

This has been the best part of my life right now, this period of time. They told me about. I'll tell you about cancer. There's not much to tell. But they told me the end of May I had cancer and there's nothing they could do. And then he said, what kind of drugs do you want? And then I said, I'll get right back to you.

[Sari Crawford]

My dad died a month later. In the end, it wasn't Synanon that got Bill Crawford. But he didn't wait for the cancer to take him either. He overdosed on liquid morphine. He took an amount that he knew would end his life.

[Ron Cook]

As far as I'm concerned, this party is over.

[Sari Crawford]

When my dad died, it had been more than 25 years since he escaped from Synanon. But he never did stop looking over his shoulder. He could never really leave. I think that's true from my mom, too, and everybody else who was a part of Synanon. And I know that Synanon will always be a part of my life, whether I like it or not. I was talking to someone recently who told me this Synanon is a cult. You can never really leave. The question is, how do you move on?

[Sylvia Crawford]

I'm wondering, where do we go from here? What's the future after this story's been told? One of the sayings, and you know, there's always been a question whether it was Chuck who said this or what. But this day is the first day of the rest of your life.

[Nicole Lapin]

I'm going to tell you a little story tonight. Up to a point, it has all the elements of a real terrific legend. You wait and see. Those three syllables, synonym, they're going to be a household word as familiar to the world as Coca Cola. God help us. It's a fantastic change. It's a complete and total rebirth. Today is the first day of the rest of your life.

[Sari Crawford]

Thank you for listening to the Sunshine Place. A creation and presentation of C13 originals. A Cadence 13 studio executive produced by Robert Downey Jr. Susan Downey and Emily Barclay Ford for Team Downey. Chris Corcoran and Zach Levitt of Cadence 13 and Josh McLaughlin written and directed directed by Perry Kroll of C13 Originals. Editing by Alastair Sherman and Perry Kroll with production and editing assistance by Chris Basil and Ian Mott. Mixing and mastering by Bill Schultz. Narrated by Me Sari Crawford Original music by Joel Goodman Marketing pr, production coordination, sales and operations by Moira Curran, Josephina Francis, Kurt Cor Courtney, Hilary Schuff, Lauren Vieira, Lucas Santrone, Sean Cherry, Lizzie Roberti and Danny Kerch of Cadence 13. Cadence 13 is an odyssey company.

[Jenna Fisher]

You might think financial crime is all about money, but sometimes it ends in murder. I'm Nicole Lapin, host of Money Crimes, a crime House original podcast. Each episode features a thrilling story about the dark side of finance and how to protect yourself from it. Follow and listen to Money Crimes, an Odyssey podcast in partnership with crimehouse Studios. Available on the free Odyssey app and wherever you get your podcasts.