3: We Can Be Heroes

Summary

Episode Summary: The Superhero Complex – Episode 3: We Can Be Heroes

Podcast Information:

• Title: The Superhero Complex
• Host/Author: iHeartPodcasts and Novel
• Description: This episode delves into the intriguing world of real-life superheroes, focusing on Phoenix Jones, a charismatic cage fighter turned masked vigilante in Seattle. As Phoenix's relationships with his sidekicks crumble and he finds himself entangled with the law, journalist David Weinberg embarks on a journey to uncover the truth behind Phoenix's heroic facade.

---

1. Introduction to Phoenix Jones and the Superhero Movement

[03:04] Narrator:
The story begins in late 2009 when Ben Fodor, later known as Phoenix Jones, transforms from an ordinary individual into Seattle's masked crusader at a local comic book store. Inspired by fictional superheroes, Ben realizes the importance of a distinctive costume to differentiate himself from criminals.

Phoenix Jones:
“I had a pair of jeans, no shirt, and like a ski mask.” [04:16]

Narrator:
Ben’s early attempts at crime-fighting are marked by experimentation with various costumes, ultimately leading to the creation of his signature look—a spray-painted, nipple-less Batman costume.

---

2. Early Challenges and Humbling Experiences

[05:21] Phoenix Jones:
“We got this replica Batman suit off the Internet and like grinded the nipples off because one of those Batman forevers Grinded the nipples off. I remember that being a conversation. And then we went out there, and I had that one for a while, and I spray painted the gold V on it.” [05:21]

Narrator:
Phoenix's initial forays into vigilantism are fraught with challenges. His first six months are characterized by ineffective gadgets and unanticipated setbacks.

[06:00] Phoenix Jones:
“I was chasing a guy. I think he'd broken into a car... I land belly down, and I'm like, oh, my God, I'm gonna drown.” [06:00]

[06:26] Narrator:
In a twist of irony, Phoenix becomes the victim of a mugging during one of his attempts to combat crime, highlighting the stark difference between comic book heroism and real-world consequences.

Phoenix Jones:
“The first six months was just an expose. And stupid.” [05:57]

---

3. Persistence and Innovation in Crime Fighting

[09:05] Narrator:
Despite the initial failures, Phoenix's determination doesn't wane. He continues his mission, learning from each mishap and adapting his strategies.

Phoenix Jones:
“I stopped my first crime the same night. I hear this girl screaming... The guy just turns around and just straight up stabs me right in the stomach.” [09:05]

Narrator:
Phoenix adapts by utilizing unconventional tools, such as trampolines strategically placed around the city to create the illusion of superpowers.

[11:09] Narrator:
Phoenix discusses setting up trampolines to surprise criminals, effectively making it appear as though he can leap over obstacles effortlessly.

Phoenix Jones:
“But it's not a trick. See, that's the difference between being a superhero and being something that's a joke.” [12:09]

---

4. Building a Team: The Rain City Superheroes

[15:06] Narrator:
Phoenix's efforts attract like-minded individuals, culminating in the formation of the Rain City Superheroes. Key members include Midnight Jack, Ghost, and El Caballero, each bringing unique skills and backgrounds to the team.

Midnight Jack:
“I have something crazy like 172 police contacts in three years. No arrests, no convictions.” [22:13]

Narrator:
Midnight Jack, a former criminal with a tumultuous past, joins Phoenix, transitioning from a life of crime to vigilantism.

El Caballero:
“He has a very smart and charismatic personality, just a genius smart and smile that could crack a camera lens.” [45:13]

[43:07] Narrator:
Veteran James Marx, adopting the superhero name Evo, brings military precision and leadership to the team, enhancing their operational effectiveness.

---

5. Team Dynamics and Training

[49:11] Midnight Jack:
“We were really hitting the pavement... we hit the ground running.” [49:11]

Narrator:
The Rain City Superheroes engage in rigorous training sessions at Gasworks Park, honing their combat skills and tactical maneuvers. Phoenix teaches martial arts, while other members contribute specialized techniques.

[49:58] Midnight Jack:
“We lived a crazy ass life... bruises, black eyes, broken thumbs...” [49:58]

Phoenix Jones:
“This wasn't a game.” [50:28]

Narrator:
The high-stakes nature of their mission fosters a deep camaraderie among team members, underscored by numerous confrontations with Seattle's criminal elements.

---

6. Rising Tensions and Internal Conflicts

[54:18] El Caballero:
“He tells this story to so many people that he kind of forgets who he's already told.” [54:35]

Narrator:
As the team gains notoriety, internal conflicts begin to surface. Phoenix's leadership style, marked by charisma and occasional arrogance, leads to friction among members.

Midnight Jack:
“They would butt heads like an old married couple...more than one patrol, you know, one would just like it. I'm out.” [55:38]

Phoenix Jones:
“Every one of those guys didn't know shit before they met me... half of those guys would be nowhere without my crime fighting.” [55:59]

Narrator:
These personality clashes, combined with Phoenix's increasing media presence, strain the unity of the Rain City Superheroes, setting the stage for eventual fallout.

---

7. The Fracture and Fallout

[52:34] Narrator:
By 2021, none of the original Rain City members are on speaking terms with Phoenix Jones. Former allies reflect on their shared experiences with a sense of nostalgia despite the broken relationships.

Phoenix Jones:
“Everything's fine. We're talking on our way to the car...” [50:37]

Narrator:
The team's once cohesive mission is now marred by distrust and personal grievances, undermining their effectiveness and threatening the very foundation of their movement.

---

8. Conclusion and Future Prospects

[56:14] Narrator:
The episode concludes with reflections on the sustainability of the Rain City Superheroes. As Phoenix Jones and his former teammates grapple with their differences, the future of the movement remains uncertain.

Phoenix Jones:
“When you risk your lives together, you get close.” [53:04]

Narrator:
David Weinberg leaves listeners contemplating the blurred lines between heroism and vigilantism, questioning the true impact of such movements on both members and the community they aim to protect.

---

Notable Quotes:

• Phoenix Jones (04:16):
  “I had a pair of jeans, no shirt, and like a ski mask.”

• Phoenix Jones (05:21):
  “We spray painted the gold V on it.”

• Phoenix Jones (09:05):
  “I stopped my first crime the same night.”

• Midnight Jack (22:13):
  “I have something crazy like 172 police contacts in three years. No arrests, no convictions.”

• Phoenix Jones (55:59):
  “Half of those guys would be nowhere without my crime fighting.”

• El Caballero (54:35):
  “He tells this story to so many people that he kind of forgets who he's already told.”

---

Key Insights:

• Contrast Between Fiction and Reality:
  Phoenix Jones's journey underscores the stark differences between the idealized world of comic book superheroes and the gritty reality of real-life vigilantism.

• Leadership and Team Dynamics:
  The fractures within the Rain City Superheroes highlight the challenges of maintaining unity and effective leadership within unconventional and high-stress environments.

• Moral Ambiguities:
  The episode delves into the ethical complexities of taking the law into one's own hands, questioning the genuine intentions and potential consequences of such actions.

• Community Impact:
  While Phoenix and his team aim to combat crime, their methods and internal conflicts raise questions about their true effectiveness and relationship with the community and law enforcement.

---

Final Thoughts: "We Can Be Heroes" offers a compelling exploration of real-life superheroes, blending narrative storytelling with in-depth character studies. Through Phoenix Jones's exploits and the dynamics within his team, the episode invites listeners to reflect on the nature of heroism, the allure of vigilantism, and the intricate balance between idealism and practicality in the pursuit of justice.

Transcript

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[Narrator]

Novel it's late 2009. Ben Fodor strolls into a Seattle comic book store, the Dreaming Comics and Games. He enters a hidden back room behind a bookcase. When he emerges from his secret lair, he is no longer Ben Fodor. As the comic book lovers of Seattle browse the shelves stuffed with Nightwing and Batman comics, an actual costumed crime fighter glides past them and steps out of the shop. Phoenix Jones has a city to save. A few months earlier, before he established his secret changing room, Phoenix was sitting in the same store chatting to the owner, Aaron, about crime fighting. At that point, he decided that he wanted to continue fighting crime, but he realized that he needed a compelling outfit, one that would make him stand out and it would take a lot of trial and error to get there.

[Phoenix Jones]

I had a pair of jeans, no shirt, and like a ski mask.

[Narrator]

Then there was a more ostentatious look.

[Phoenix Jones]

We went all spandex with the Count Chocula hat. Yeah.

[Narrator]

Clearly this was not a permanent solution. When I first heard about real life superheroes, I assumed that they modeled their outfits off fictional superheroes because they thought it was cool. But there's actually a practical reason for wearing a flamboyant superhero outfit. It distinguishes you from criminals who might also be wearing a mask. If a cop gets called out to a crime and they see a guy in a ski mask, there's a pretty good chance they'll think this is the suspect. And as a superhero, that is something you want to avoid at all costs. So Ben needed a costume that would distinguish him from the criminals he wanted to take down. In some ways, I feel like what happened next was the moment when Ben Fodor really became a superhero. Up until this point, he was just a guy in spandex and a goofy hat trying to stop crime. But his next suit was when he fully embraced the superhero image.

[Phoenix Jones]

We got this replica Batman suit off the Internet and like grinded the nipples off because one of those batman forevers Grinded the nipples off. I remember that being a conversation. And then we went out there, and I had that one for a while, and I spray painted the gold v on it.

[Narrator]

And so the newly minted Phoenix jones, With his freshly spray painted, nippleless batman halloween costume, took to the streets of seattle. In the comic book version of this story, Phoenix would instantly start kicking ass. But this was not a comic book. This was real life.

[Phoenix Jones]

The first six months was just an expose. And stupid.

[Narrator]

For starters, not all of phoenix's gadgets worked the way he hoped.

[Phoenix Jones]

I was chasing a guy. I think he'd broken into a car. I was like, oh, I'm coming after you. I pulled out this net gun I just bought, and I pop it off. But I'm running at, like, super warp speed, right? The net gun catches wind, blows back and nets me and rolls up, and I land on the side of, like, a little gutter ditch right on the side of the road. It's been raining, so there's like, two inches of water in it, right? And I land belly down, and I'm like, oh, my God, I'm gonna drown. So I'm like, rolling up, taking breaths, and rolling up and taking breaths.

[Narrator]

At this point, Phoenix feels a pair of hands grabbing his back. He gets forcibly turned over, and there, glaring down at him, is the criminal he'd been chasing. Then, in a decidedly unheroic moment, Lying in a ditch and ensnared in his own net, Phoenix gets mugged.

[Phoenix Jones]

He grabs my wallet, he punches me in the face, and I just lay belly up in this freaking rain ditch. And then finally, the cops show up, and they're like, what's going on? So I explained the story to them, and they're like, oh, we have to take photos for evidence. Which is lies.

[Narrator]

It turns out crime fighting is tougher than it looks.

[Phoenix Jones]

Everything you see in a crime fighting magazine, it's the pages between the panels. You have to learn to live in, you know, those little white bars to separate all the comic book panels. That's where the real crime fighting takes place. That's where all the superhero work really is.

[Narrator]

Phoenix explained that in the comic books, you'll often see a hero on top of a tall building chasing a bad guy. The hero might be shown swinging on a rope, but what's not shown is when he set up where the rope would go. That's the part the superhero stories leave out. But as Phoenix was figuring out the hard way, these little details are crucial. Only weeks into his crime fighting career, Phoenix Jones was a laughing St. Reliant on friendly members of the Seattle Police Department to fish him soaking wet out of the gutter. This would not stand. It was time to get serious. From the teams at Novel and iheartradio, this is the Superhero Complex. Episode three We Can Be Heroes Hearing Phoenix tell the story of his early crime fighting failures made him more endearing to me. It was nice to hear him deviate from his over the top proclamations about being the only real superhero and his claims that he is quote perfect at crime fighting. I get the sense that his arrogance and his insistence on being better than everyone around him has been the source of a lot of the interpersonal conflict in his superhero life. The night of the disastrous net incident was humiliating. But one thing that you'll never see a self respecting superhero do is quit. As soon as he'd wave goodbye to the police who'd rescued him, he dusted off his dirty nippleless Batman outfit and got back to work.

[Phoenix Jones]

I stopped my first crime that same night. I hear this girl screaming and back in the day there used to be a really big pickpocket and like grab iPhone and run scenario kind of deal. This guy's pulling on this girl's purse and he cuts the purse strap, right? I see him and I come up behind him and at that point in time, I'm still at catchphrases too. I'm like really deep in the stupid and I roll up and I was like stop. What are you doing? You know, kind of like that.

[Narrator]

That's a terrible catchphrase by the way.

[Phoenix Jones]

Hey, I do what I can, you know. You think you have catchphrases until the moment know I say stop. The guy just turns around and just straight up stabs me right in the stomach. And I had no armor, I was in just spandex. And all of a sudden I realized, wait a minute, this isn't a game. You're a professional martial artist, bro. You have skills. You are a three or four time champion at this point. There's no reason that you should be out here yelling out ridiculous, corny catchphrases in spandex.

[Narrator]

In Phoenix's telling of the events, it's almost as if he'd forgotten until this very moment that he was a trained fighter.

[Phoenix Jones]

Immediately I switch into fight stance. Two left jabs and a right hand set the dude down, flamingoed him, which is duct taping your right hand to your left leg. So you hop around like a flamingo if you try to run. And I'm sitting next to him. And the girl's taking off. At this point, I have her purse, but I don't know where the girl is. And all of a sudden, the brightest lights shine on me, and I'm like, what's going on? I look and the cop who had just got me out of the ditch, like, four hours earlier, he's like, no way. He's like, phoenix Jones, you stopped a crime. And I was like, I did. I stopped a crime. And the girl's in the back of the car and everything, you know, and the cop comes up, he go, hey, if you got caught by this corny motherfucker, maybe crime's not for you.

[Narrator]

With his first bad guy in handcuffs, it was time for Phoenix to level up again. And how does an ambitious crime fighter stay one step ahead, you might be wondering. Well, trampolines, obviously.

[Phoenix Jones]

I went around the city setting areas that I would have things to make me superhero up. And it was a calculated, planned out, orchestrated idea. And it really, really blew some of the criminals minds, you know, like little things like hiding those little trampolines you can buy, you know, like hiding them behind dumpsters and where there's fences.

[Narrator]

Phoenix told me that he set up these sort of booby traps around town. Not traps in the sense that they ensnared criminals, but more like magic tricks that made it seem like he had superpowers. He would chase unsuspecting bad guys down Seattle's back streets. They'd flee in horror, attempting to scramble over walls, and only for Phoenix to sail majestically into their path, Propelled by one of his strategically placed trampolines.

[Phoenix Jones]

I'm bouncing over the fence, flying, and just land. The dude just stopped and just laid down. He's just like, fuck this.

[Narrator]

It's almost like you are breaking the magician's rule and, like, revealing the trick, you know?

[Phoenix Jones]

Yeah, but I think that's not the trick, right? The trick is timing being effective and actually having the skill to do it, because there's no trick to what I've done, right? I jumped over that fence, landed in front of a guy with a knife. And you surrendered no trick.

[Narrator]

Well, the trick, I think, is that you had gone ahead of time and put a trampoline there, right?

[Phoenix Jones]

But it's not a trick. See, that's the difference between being a superhero and being something that's a joke, right? Is because I'm using it as a tool to get over that fence to cut off valuable time. I'm just doing it in the mode of a superhero. Other superheroes are doing things Simply as a trick.

[Narrator]

I love the image of Phoenix leaping from a trampoline and soaring through the air to thwart criminals, but I have serious doubts about the validity of this story. It just seems crazy to me that you would know where to place the trampolines and that they would be in precisely the right spot during what I imagine is a pretty chaotic chase through darkened streets. But some of Phoenix's other tactics seem a lot more plausible.

[Phoenix Jones]

I used to lase point people all the time. Hilarious. Had a laser pointer on the top of my thing and I'd just go, stop. People would just stop. I was thinking like Buzz Lightyear kind of like I'm setting my thing from stun to kill. Yeah. And I would just laser pointer them and I'd be like, don't make me immobilize you. And they would just stop. You know what I mean? So it's like a bluff. But really, if you came after me, you would get beat up.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Phoenix Jones]

So it's not exactly a bluff. Right. The laser's for your protection. You get closer to me, you're going to have a problem. The laser keeps you at a safe distance from your own bad choices.

[Narrator]

Wouldn't it be nice if we all had lasers that kept us at a safe distance from our bad choices? Anyways, in between zapping bad guys with his Buzz Lightyear laser and getting caught in his own net gun and bouncing over fences on miniature trampolines, Phoenix did manage to stop a few crimes here and there. And in the process, he attracted some followers, folks who wanted to fight alongside him and if needed, help him get out of whatever dumb mess he'd made for himself. Even the world's greatest superhero needs a hand sometimes. Coming up, I meet Phoenix's original sidekicks. That's after the break.

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[Narrator]

On my first trip to Seattle, when Phoenix stood me up, I'd been messaging some of his crew from way back in the day. I'd found Midnight Jack on Facebook. He and another real life superhero ghost agreed to meet me at the Northgate movie theater in the outskirts of Seattle's city Limits. The theater was in an outdoor shopping center with a few cafes and a Subway sandwich shop. It was a sunny, clear day in August. As I stood next to an outdoor fire pit, I noticed that ash was falling from the sky. I looked around and saw the alarm on the faces of other people around me. It felt apocalyptic, not unlike a scene out of a superhero movie where everyone is confused at the falling ash. Then we all look up to see a giant explosion in the sky as two masked superheroes battle royale in the heavens above our mortal world. But it turned out it was just a large structure fire about a mile away. Eventually, I smelled the smoke and saw the plume rising in the distance. And then Midnight Jack and Ghost walked up to me and introduced themselves. They were not what I expected. I guess I thought they would be more intimidating. This was during the pandemic, so they both had masks on. Ghost looked like he'd just rolled out of bed. Flip flops, gym shorts, and a T shirt. Midnight Jack at least looked like he'd come from the gym, workout pants, coffee in hand. Though I remember being surprised how much skinnier he was than I expected.

[Phoenix Jones]

Hi.

[Narrator]

How you doing?

[J]

Good.

[Narrator]

I'm guessing you're here to look for a Ghost. Yes. Are you?

[Host]

Yeah.

[Narrator]

Nice to meet you, man.

[Host]

Good to meet you.

[Narrator]

We decided to walk down some steps away from the shopping center to a more secluded area with a few tall apartment complexes built around a scenic bike path that ran alongside a little creek. We could just sit maybe on that bench right over there or something. As grandparents pushed strollers and couples walked hand in hand along the path, Midnight Jack and Ghost regaled me with wild stories of their past lives.

[Midnight Jack]

A homeless dude almost ripped Cabbie's dick off one time. Which is funny. It's why you don't wear men's leggings to street patrol.

[Narrator]

Duly noted. Cabbie, I'd later learn was a fellow recruit before becoming one of Phoenix's comrades. Midnight Jack says he started out in life as a criminal with a superhero like ability of getting away with it.

[Midnight Jack]

I have no record. I had a very serious cocaine addiction. Specifically crack cocaine addiction. If you look back at my personal information, which I won't give you, I have something crazy like. 172 police contacts in three years. No arrests, no convictions, which is not necessarily something you should be bragging about, but, I mean, that's just what it was.

[Narrator]

Now, because Jack won't give me his real name, I'm not able to verify his claim that he has something like 172 police contacts. Without ever being arrested or charged with a crime. But I will say that I find it very hard to believe that someone suffering from a severe crack addiction who claims to have been a very active criminal and gang member could have that many encounters with the police and never get caught. Maybe it's proof that real life superheroes have remarkable superhuman abilities. Or maybe Midnight Jack is full of shit. Yeah. I'm curious about your transition. Like what made you stop doing crime and start fighting crime?

[Midnight Jack]

Well, when you stop doing cocaine, you stop needing to fund cocaine. And so the need to commit crimes slowly goes away. So at the end of that, I left the crew I was with. I left the state for a year. And when I came back, I was sober and I was looking to fill my time in a positive way as opposed to being a criminal, a bad.

[Narrator]

Guy and a thug.

[Midnight Jack]

I was 22 when I got back and you know, I had done nothing really in my entire life other than crime.

[Narrator]

Jack saw a news article about a guy stopping car break ins wearing what he calls a rubber gimp suit. But what we know now was actually a nipple less Batman costume.

[Midnight Jack]

I was like, well, shit, I got an old ski mask that I used to use and a baseball bat. I'll just start walking around here. So then for the next six months, I walked around with a bat and a ski mask and chased off car prowlers. And we call them baiters. It's aggressive homeless drug addicts. We call them baiters. And yeah, that was basically my first six months of career.

[Narrator]

Jack was in a park at night, ski mask on, bat in hand, when a cop stopped him and asked for his name.

[Midnight Jack]

I was like, uh, it's Jack.

[Narrator]

He glanced at his watch. 11:53pm In a flash of inspiration, his superhero Persona came to him.

[Midnight Jack]

Midnight Jack. And the name stuck ever since. Legends are born out of necessity. They're not planned out or carefully created.

[Narrator]

Now that the legend was born, Midnight Jack decided it was time to join some like minded heroes. He told me that he fell in with a crew of decidedly average Seattle superheroes.

[Midnight Jack]

All fat out of shape. And they were so desperate to have somebody with any sort of skills or know how whatsoever.

[Narrator]

Jack says they harassed the odd drug dealer, but they weren't about to save the world. Then one day he saw Phoenix Jones crew patrolling in his part of town.

[Midnight Jack]

He came up to me and I was like, hey man, just so you know, like this crowd down here is more mellow. That one down there is a little rowdier. We already did two loops of the block. Most of the cars are parked down here and this and that and that. You got all this kind of stuff. He looks at me and goes, who the fuck are you and why are you telling me shit about my own patrol? How did you even get here? That was how I met Phoenix Jones.

[Narrator]

It wasn't exactly love at first sight, but it was clear to Midnight Jack that Phoenix Jones was very different from the crew he was running with at the time. Jones was the real deal. Jack says his work ethic impressed Phoenix. But Phoenix describes their first encounter a little differently.

[Phoenix Jones]

We found Midnight Jack on the streets. He was out patrolling in a very stupid way. He was out there just beating up people, like with no abandon, just, you know what I mean? Just like hiding in a bush with two sticks. And then when a crime takes out, just beating someone senselessly. So we found him and we were like, you should join our squad and like, not go to prison. And then from there it just kind of built.

[Narrator]

It might sound like an odd recruitment strategy to make a guy you found hiding in the bushes and beating people to within an inch of their life a member of your crime fighting crew. But Phoenix spotted a fellow costumed crime fighter and clearly saw something in Jack. By the time Jack started hanging out with Phoenix, Ghost had already been patrolling with him for a while. In fact, Ghost actually knew Phoenix back when he was just Ben Fodor.

[Host]

I came back from Iraq in 2009 and I found out that someone I knew from high school, Ben, was doing this crazy shit out on the streets.

[Narrator]

So you knew Ben in high school?

[Phoenix Jones]

Yeah, I did.

[Host]

We ran in similar circles. I called him. I'm like, ben, what the hell are you doing? What are you doing, man? And he invited me up to have a chat with him. We talked about it and I was like, well, I'm going now. You don't really have a say in that.

[Narrator]

I really wanted to know what Ben had been like when they were growing up. But Ghost was not particularly interested in talking. He seemed wary of me and my microphone. At one point, Midnight Jack said that Ghost had been freaking out. On the way to the interview. Jack did almost all the talking. Ghost would stand to the side and sometimes he would wander off like 20 or 30 yards away from us and just stand there watching from a distance.

[Host]

I don't trust anyone. Like sometimes I struggle with some post traumatic stress situation and that doesn't really help things with when it comes to my trust. But I'm just doing my best.

[Narrator]

Ghost didn't want to talk much about the old days, though. Every once in a while, Midnight Jack would launch into a story about a patrol from long ago and Ghost would jump back into the conversation. Apparently Midnight Jack used to carry a container of baking flour to throw at people. One time he was about to douse a local pervert in flour when Ghosts stepped in.

[Midnight Jack]

I almost flowered this homeless dude in a wheelchair that had one leg, but he had his dick out and he was fucking following women back from the club, jacking off, yelling aggressive sexual things. You talked me out of flowering that guy cause he was in a wheelchair. I was gonna flower him and then I was gonna push him over.

[Narrator]

I got the sense based on this story and videos I've seen of Phoenix's patrols, that Ghost often play this role. Phoenix described him as a level headed analyst rather than a brawler.

[Phoenix Jones]

Ghost has a specific intel observational job and he's amazing at that. But Ghost can't run into an altercation and take people out.

[Narrator]

These days Ghost doesn't go out on patrol, but he continues to fight crime. He says his efforts are now focused on catching pedophiles online by posing as a 14 year old boy.

[Host]

I set up these fake profiles and I have at least 10 detectives that work with me and to any pedophiles out there, it's always me. So keep that in mind.

[Narrator]

I came away from my first encounter with real life superheroes, not really sure what to make of them. On that first trip to Seattle before I met Phoenix, I was skeptical of a lot of their claims. But I admired their ambition and their desire to do good in the world, even if a lot of their escapades seemed a little absurd. I also got a kick out of all the petty infighting that seemed to consume a lot of the superheroes time. I was only just learning what kind of person puts on a costume and takes the law into their own hands. But maybe it shouldn't have surprised me that a lot of them have big egos that can lead to personality clashes. Despite the bickering, they did seem to have a solid system in place for organizing patrols and vetting new recruits. Sometimes when Phoenix did interviews with the media, he would give out a phone number that people could call if they wanted to get in touch with him. That phone number went directly to Ghost, and one day he got a call from a new guy who said he was interested in joining the team.

[J]

We hit it off instantaneously because we understood that it's not a game, it's not some kind of trivial thing you could just jump into the guy on.

[Narrator]

The other end of the phone was about to become the latest member of Phoenix's crew and one of Phoenix's best friends. He called himself El Caballero. Of all the real life superheroes I've hung out with, El Caballero was the one who surprised me the most. Before I met him, I had formed my opinion based on videos of him patrolling with Phoenix's team. And to be honest, I thought he was the most ridiculous of the bunch. His superhero costume was really absurd. He wore a luchador mask and a purple cape vest thing with a gold embroidered dragon and bell bottoms. He was the guy Midnight Jack had talked about who nearly got his junk pulled off on patrol. And of course, his name was El Caballero. Gentleman or knight in Spanish, which for a white guy just seemed like an odd choice. Based on all of this, I had an idea in my head of who Cabbie was, but then I actually met him. El Caballero agreed to meet me, of all places, at a Mexican restaurant. He doesn't live in Seattle anymore, and he asked to keep his exact location a secret. He says there are a lot of bad dudes he's apprehended over the years who he thinks are keen to track him down and enact revenge. It's peaceful where he lives now, a small town about an hour and a half outside of Seattle. He left the city a few years ago and has settled into a quiet life with his wife. They live in a trailer park in the forest. Cabbie chose the Mexican restaurant to meet because it was close to his home. It had nothing to do with his superhero name. I got there a little early and took a seat in a booth. Mexican pottery and colorful Spanish tile lined the walls. When he walked into the restaurant, I didn't recognize him. He came over to me and introduced himself, and I was immediately entranced by his eyes. Cabbie has hypnotic blue eyes that feel like tractor beams into your soul. There's a depth to Cabbie that totally surprised me. He's a deeply spiritual person, but also very intimidating. He's a big guy covered in tattoos. He had on a denim jacket over a brightly colored shirt. His appearance hides a gentle, thoughtful side that I hadn't expected. We sat in the restaurant for a while. I ordered some food and Cabbie had a couple drinks and ordered a burrito to take home to his wife. Then we got some beers from the gas station and sat in my car chatting in the parking lot between the restaurant and Cabbie's trailer. One of his neighbors saw us and wandered over to see what we were up to. Hey, how you doing?

[J]

Hey, brother. Good to see you, man.

[Narrator]

We're just doing an interview.

[J]

We're doing an interview for the Internet.

[Narrator]

All right.

[Phoenix Jones]

On.

[Narrator]

Sounds good.

[Phoenix Jones]

I'll let you guys get back to.

[J]

What you're doing, but, yeah, thank you.

[Host]

Cool.

[Narrator]

All right. Thank you. I'm just gonna set my levels. You can. I can hold, actually.

[J]

All right. How should I talk? Is this a good level to talk in and talk when I talk, however you talk, I generally talk. Talk like this and. Yeah. Sharing the story and telling the thing about the things of the story.

[Narrator]

That sounds good. Cabbie has lived all over the world. His dad was in the US Military and worked for NATO, so Cabbie spent part of his childhood living in Europe.

[J]

After I saw the Berlin Wall fall, I was like, 11th grade, 12th grade. I moved back to America. In the small town, I'm a little bit of a artist and creative person, and growing up in Europe and then coming to America, whatever, some of my mannerisms made people think certain things or whatever, and they made judgments on me. And there was, like, skinheads and all this other. Not traditional skins, but some negative Nazi white power skins. And, like, one threw me down the steps, and teachers were like, oh, well, it's all right. It's all good, or whatever. And so I experienced that, and I was like, no one should suffer this, like, let alone myself. And so like, I went from someone who was very sensitive and artistic and still am, I believe, to someone who was trained to protect myself and then even trained to protect other people. I tried to join the military, but have irregular heartbeats.

[Narrator]

Even though he couldn't become a soldier, Cabbie wanted to be a protector of humanity in some way. He got into martial arts and pursued a career in social work.

[J]

I was doing caregiving and helping developmentally disabled people and stuff like that. Some of my clients were really intense, had violent tendencies, and so the company I worked for sent me to them because I'd already been trained. Not with them, but with other things, with martial arts and de escalation and things like that.

[Narrator]

Cabbie was also an avid reader of history. And in his studies, he came across a template for the type of heroism that he wanted to emulate. The Knights Templar.

[J]

It's an ancient chivalric order dedicated to protecting pilgrims and widows and orphans and the downtrodden and anyone else.

[Narrator]

Although the actual Knights Templar were destroyed around the year 1307, the revivalist group that Cabbie was involved with paid homage to the medieval order and dubbed Cabby their new knight.

[J]

I swore on the Holy Bible in front of legal witnesses and they gave me a knighthood. In fact, I have several knighthoods now just based on the fact that I've sworn to protect humans.

[Narrator]

Cabbie took his new role as a protector of humanity very seriously. He felt a deep sense of honor and duty as a member of this historic order.

[J]

I felt like I wouldn't be living up to these high honors that these people gave me if I didn't do something more noble with my skills. I told Jones. I'm like, hey, it's cool you have your high school buddies, but let's bring on some real heavy hitters.

[Narrator]

It was time for Phoenix Jones and the Rain City superheroes to raise the bar. So for a new generation of aspiring recruits, things were about to get competitive. After the break, we sort the superheroes from the sidekicks.

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[Narrator]

Over the first couple of years of his superhero career, Phoenix Jones had built a ragtag crime fighting posse. Through a bit of luck and some chance encounters with like minded folks, this motley crew ultimately became the Rain City of Superhero movement, an organization with a mission to strike fear into the heart of Seattle's criminal underworld. If Phoenix really wanted to create the Avengers style supergroup of his dreams, he couldn't just let anyone in. The movement needed some professionals like Ghost. James Marx is a veteran. He'd worked in aviation mission planning for the army and had served in Iraq. After he got out of the service, James was surfing the Internet when he came across some curious posts about a guy who claimed to be a real life superhero. His first thought was oh come on, give me a break. I suspect his second thought was is that a nipple less Batman costume? But that's more of a guess.

[El Caballero]

I remember seeing online a couple posts and screenshots of some weirdo named Phoenix Jones and just seemed a little larger than life personality and I thought it's like ah, what a what kind of kook is this?

[Narrator]

James was skeptical but intrigued. So when he heard the superheroes of Seattle were holding an event in a bar to meet the public, he showed up.

[El Caballero]

My expectations were seeing a bunch of basement dwelling cosplay nerds that put down their dice for a minute to go patrol the streets or something and it was nothing like I'd expected.

[Narrator]

A lot of the superheroes James met that day had families and full time jobs. They didn't seem delusional. They seemed like they genuinely wanted to help people. After the meetup, James couldn't get the idea out of his head. He'd given up his job in the military, but he missed the feeling of being on a team united behind a cause.

[El Caballero]

I shot an email to Phoenix Jones. He left his email in the Facebook post. So, like, okay, I'm wondering, you know, what's the process, like, how does this work, you know, if someone might be interested in joining something like this? And he, he responded right away in his famous caps locked fashion. Meet us at 2nd and Jackson on Tuesday morning at midnight and wear something blue.

[Phoenix Jones]

Phoenix out.

[Narrator]

So in the early hours of the following Tuesday, James waited on the street corner.

[El Caballero]

I'm wearing kind of like a, a black hoodie and tactical cargo pants and have this blue sash kind of a scarf. I showed up there and found out there's like eight other people also waiting around, kind of dressed in various dark garb, each with an individual color. There was green, there was orange. There was me, blue. There was black, there was yellow.

[Narrator]

The superhero recruits eyed each other apprehensively. Nobody said much.

[El Caballero]

A couple other people started showing up that were very much decked out in what looked like kind of superhero gear, almost costumes. One looked like a Mexican wrestler. There was one guy looked like Spider man, kind of. That was Midnight Jack. Eventually, in his very famous late fashion, Phoenix Jones showed up and greeted all of us. And turns out it was tryouts, superhero tryout.

[Narrator]

If you want to join the gang, you've got to prove yourself. Phoenix was in his full suit and body armor and acting like his usual cocky self.

[El Caballero]

He's a very, very charismatic, affable guy. Clearly very smart, like just genius smart and smile that could crack a camera lens. You could just leap into any room and be the same center of attention and the star of the show.

[Narrator]

Before the rookies got the chance to prove themselves to their magnetic leader, there was a first round. They had to pass.

[El Caballero]

They took us around the corner one at a time. Your name, hold up your id, pull down your mask and keep it up, you know, for. Be anonymous in this, but okay, now what's your superpower? And, yeah, absolutely. And I just kind of sat there and blinked a few times. I, I didn't think of that. He's like, it's okay. All right, that's the right answer. We boot anyone who thinks they can fly. Immediately, I'm like, all right, okay. It's like, all right, you're good to go. And, you know, one at a time, they let everyone else back, and at least one person walked away, very dejected, back to their car and drove off.

[Narrator]

According to James, this part of the vetting process was essential.

[El Caballero]

There had been one guy before my time, apparently went by the name the platypus, whose superpower was poison water balloons or something, which turned out to be full of pee. So suffice to say, this line of volunteer work and activism draws a very particular crowd.

[Narrator]

Once the Rain City superheroes were satisfied that the new recruits were more or less sane, it was time for the real test. Their first patrol.

[El Caballero]

Phoenix Jones had a very like, all right, everyone follow me. Do what I do. Don't hurt anybody. Just follow my lead.

[Host]

Go.

[El Caballero]

He just started running and everyone staring, blinking at each other. Okay, hold up.

[Narrator]

With the new recruits trailing in his wake, Phoenix led the patrol squad to Pioneer Square, an old red brick neighborhood in the city's downtown area, for a Tuesday. It was a busy night. People from the bars were spilling out onto the streets, and the motley crew of wannabe superheroes attracted a lot of attention.

[El Caballero]

Just a lot of cars honking as they drove by or, you know, waving at people. A couple other security guards are on parking lots. Hey, pj, what's up? It was like everyone seemed to know this guy.

[Narrator]

Phoenix was in his element.

[El Caballero]

He must have stopped for 30 photo ops by the time we made it around the block. All the women, so many women would want selfies with them or take pictures or he did this thing where he'd carry women like a bride to get a picture. I mean, that was a workout in itself.

[Narrator]

But it wasn't just a photo op. The recruits got to see some action too.

[El Caballero]

There was a couple people who had clearly gotten kicked out of a club but weren't leaving yet, clearly being too intoxicated. And one of the telltale signs that shit's about to go down is you see someone pull off their shirt, you're like, oh, shit. Shirtless male, shirtless male.

[Narrator]

Phoenix leapt into the middle of the fray.

[El Caballero]

We just kind of stood back and watched him get in there and talk people down. He pulled out pepper spray at one point. Didn't deploy, but just waited in faces, you know, back up or else you're gonna get it.

[Narrator]

A full year of patrolling later, James and three other battle hardened recruits who'd been at the tryouts were inducted as full team members of the Rain City Superheroes. And by this time, James had a new superhero name.

[El Caballero]

Being a history nerd and loving a lot of things Latin, I kind of went down the path of the Roman army and chose evacuitus. It means veteran in Latin and usually just got chopped down to Evo for short.

[Narrator]

Evo is the one I told you about before who wears a full face helmet, a bit like Daft Punk and motorcycle leathers with thick protective gloves. With a team that now included trained warriors like Ivo, the Rain City superheroes were ready to take Seattle by storm. Phoenix even had his girlfriend along for the ride. Purple Rain Purple focused mainly on supporting victims of domestic violence. El Caballero remembers the heyday of the Rain City superheroes.

[J]

Well, we were really hitting the pavement. We were really doing some stuff. From felons who had stabbed people, hardcore drug dealers like the cocaine and the cartel stuff, to identity thieves, like, we hit the ground running.

[Narrator]

The team held practices in the middle of the night at Gasworks Park. It's on the shores of Lake Union, a freshwater lake in the middle of Seattle. The rusting remains of an old gas plant still stand there late at night by the metal ruins. The superheroes would trade skills. Phoenix taught them MMA moves. And Ivo taught knife disarms and other techniques he picked up in the military. And these turned out to be necessary. According to Midnight Jack, things could get pretty gnarly out on patrol.

[Midnight Jack]

We lived a crazy ass life. We were going to work with fucking bruises and black eyes from fist fights, broken thumbs, taped up toes. Washing the mace off your body at the end of a long night till you can get two hours sleep and going in stock shelves at Target. That's the kind of lives that we lived.

[Narrator]

The stakes were high. I had to look out for each other. Like Phoenix says, this wasn't a game.

[Phoenix Jones]

I ended up getting stabbed. And Cabbie was there and he's like, oh, it's all good, man. Don't even stress about that. So we're chalking and we're.

[Narrator]

Don't even stress about getting stabbed.

[Phoenix Jones]

Oh, yeah. He's like, everything's fine. We're talking on our way to the car. We're driving back to the hospital or whatever, right? And before I get in, I like can't stop tearing up, right? And I'm like, man, I can't get in the hospital like this. Like there's cameras. People might see it.

[Narrator]

I we tearing up like, oh, I.

[Phoenix Jones]

Can'T stop crying because I got stabbed. Oh, yeah, yeah. I just can't stop and get my shit together. And I wake up and I'm in the hospital bed, and I'm like, what the happened? Gabby's like, don't worry, boss. I choked you out. What? I was like, thanks, man. You're a genius.

[Narrator]

Choking your buddy unconscious so he doesn't freak out after getting stabbed. That's true friendship. And it's just as well because as you might have gathered, Phoenix has a lot of stabbing stories. He got the chance to repay Cabbie on another patrol in Belltown, El Caballero.

[Phoenix Jones]

And I see this person, and the guy's got a knife, and he's yelling at this guy and this girl, and Cabbie runs in, and the guy turns around and reaches out and grabs El Caballero straight in the crotch and starts grabbing his junk. Cabbie, out of instinct, grabs the guy's arm, right? So the guy's arm's kind of grabbing his junk like that, and he's got his arm around it like this. And they're going like this back and forth on the side of the street. And then I come through and I put the guy down. And Cabbie steps back, and he's like. He's holding himself and he goes, you know what, man? I forgive you.

[Narrator]

So the guy who was grabbing his nuts.

[Phoenix Jones]

Yeah.

[Cindy Crawford]

Wow.

[Phoenix Jones]

It was just one of those moments. It looked like he was gonna get his junk pulled off. It was hilarious. I love Cabbie that way.

[Narrator]

Until I met Cabbie, I never imagined that superhero work would put your groin in so many high risk situations. Anyway, flash forward to today. Of the individuals who made up the Rain City superhero movement in 2011 and 2012, none of them are on speaking terms with Phoenix Jones. Literally not one. We'll get into the drama of all that fallout later. But despite the fracture of the group speaking to me in 2021, it was clear that they missed each other.

[J]

Just kind of the calm, cool demeanor that Jones had at that time, where it was like, I'm gonna take care of business and fight some crime, but I'm not gonna be scared about it. That was always impressive with me.

[Phoenix Jones]

Cabbie is this mix of, like, skilled negotiator. Right. And tactical fighter. He's a tactical monster. So he'll come in and just do something and hit somebody one time or take them down the right way. And by the time they got something to do, they're just. They're in the wrong position. I can't tell you enough about that guy.

[Narrator]

When you're risking your lives together, you get close. And Ivo got to know the rest of the team. Particularly well, a lot of the people.

[El Caballero]

On the team would just kind of naturally talk to me because I kind of accidentally wound up as, like, the entire HR department.

[Narrator]

Evo had many roles in the Rain City superhero movement. Turns out being a superhero comes with a lot of admin. In addition to running Phoenix's social media, filling out endless paperwork, and managing the patrol schedule, Evo was also the Rain City superhero's main chauffeur.

[El Caballero]

I would leave up to an hour and a half early before a patrol to start picking up team members. And I was driving a tiny Ford Focus at the time, and I would have it packed like a clown car full of these superheroes who couldn't drive. So I would be listening for, you know, two to three hours a night of these people just kind of venting and unwinding about everything going on in their personal lives before we hit the street and put on the mask.

[Narrator]

If there's one thing I've learned in my time in the world of real life superheroes, it's that they have a lot of car trouble. Phoenix seems to lurch from one car crisis to the next, both with me and with his former crew members. Over the course of many, many carpools with Phoenix, Ivo began to notice a pattern that made him uneasy.

[El Caballero]

I guess one of the unintended consequences of me driving him absolutely everywhere is that he would tell me these stories about, you know, what's going on, or, oh, my God, you won't believe what she told me this time, or something like that. But he tells this story to so many people that he kind of forgets who he's already told.

[Narrator]

Phoenix would reel off stories to people on the phone as they cruised around in Ivo's car. Ivo would also drive Phoenix to speaking engagements at summer camps and colleges where he'd tell wild tales of his crime fighting capers. Ivo started noticing that the details in these familiar stories started shifting.

[El Caballero]

He would just hop on his phone and, you know, start telling different team members different versions of the same story as well. Seemingly kind of forgetting, like, I'm in the car or that I've already heard this.

[Narrator]

As well as having concerns about the truth of Phoenix's claims, Ivo was starting to have doubts about Phoenix's leadership style behind the scenes.

[El Caballero]

It wasn't very communicative if it wasn't, like, on stage or if it was in front of a crowd or anything like that. He didn't talk much or he didn't tell a lot of people, like, what was going on or what's the next step. It's kind of like, hey, if you want to be in this, you got to follow my every word and lead.

[Narrator]

In a team full of aspiring superheroes, there was always going to be some friction. But Ivo says things got particularly bad between Phoenix and Midnight Jack.

[El Caballero]

They would butt heads like an old married couple and just end up getting in yelling fights. And more than one patrol, you know, one would just like it. I'm out. And they would just leave the patrol, leaving a bunch of people in line, kind of like, what? What did we do?

[Narrator]

When I spoke to him, Phoenix didn't deny that there had been clashes, but to him, that misses the point.

[Phoenix Jones]

Every one of those guys didn't know shit before they met me. And I taught every single one of them how to fight crime. So people can kind of say what they will from personality conflicts. But when it comes to just facts, half of those guys would be nowhere without my crime fighting.

[Narrator]

Any group of people is going to have its personality conflicts. And for a group like the Rain City superheroes, with its larger than life personalities undergirded by a sense of righteousness, I'm sure it was even harder to keep everyone in agreement and then throw in the high stakes nature of their mission, the possibility of death or injury, and top it off with an arrogant, charismatic leader. And it's a wonder they were able to work together at all. But somehow they did it. And maybe they could have kept at it. But then they started to get attention, first from the citizens of Seattle, then the local and eventually national news media. Phoenix and his gang were about to hit the big time and the fragile alliance they had with each other would finally start to buckle under the weight of their growing fame. That's coming up next time. The superhero complex is home. Hosted and written by me, David Weinberg and reported by me, Amalia Sortland and Caroline Thornham. Production from Amalia Sortland and Caroline Thornham. Sean Glenn, Max o' Brien and David Waters are executive producers. Fact checking by Andrew Schwartz Production management from Cherie Houston, Frankie Taylor and Charlotte Wolf. Sound design, mixing and scoring by Nicholas Alexander and Daniel Kempson. Music supervision by Nicholas Alexander and David Water. Original music is composed by Paul Housden. Special thanks to Peter Tangen, Willard Foxton, Matt o', Meara, Katrina Norvell, Beth Ann Macaluso, Oren Rosenbaum, Shelby Shenkman and all the team at uta. For more from Novel visit Novel Audio.

[Cindy Crawford]

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[Danielle Fishel]

This is Danielle Fishel from Pod Meets World. Here's the thing about JCPenney right now, it's like stumbling on a secret treasure trove. You know those hidden gems that make you look twice and think, wait, that's from where? Like carbon blue Adidas sneakers, trending comfortable and totally unexpected? Or the cute matching set I just got, perfect for everything from drop offs to after school mama trauma bonding. If you're already shopping JCPenney, it's time to stop gatekeeping. If not, it's time to check out what you've been missing. Shopjcpenney.com yes, JCPenney this episode is brought.

[Narrator]

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[Danielle Fishel]

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[Narrator]

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[Danielle Fishel]

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[Narrator]

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[Danielle Fishel]

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[Danielle Fishel]

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