Podcast
The Symbolic World
Hosted by Jonathan Pageau · EN
Jonathan Pageau looks at symbolism in all its forms, from its source in sacred stories and images to contemporary culture and ultimately how it shapes the world we encounter.
27episodes
Episodes
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453 - Seraphim Hamilton - Isaiah: The Fifth Gospel
3d ago00:49:20Tap to summarizeI’m joined again by Seraphim Hamilton to discuss his upcoming Symbolic World course on Isaiah, beginning June 15th. We talk about why Isaiah is central for understanding Christ in the Old Testament, the relationship between prophecy, exile, the suffering servant, the gentile nations, and the deep symbolic unity between Scripture, liturgy, and creation.Join Seraphim Hamilton in studying the Book of Isaiah this June. Register now to get 15% off before the early bird sale ends: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/the-fifth-gospel YouTube version: https://youtu.be/lPpBFh2-V90Timestamps:00:00 - Coming up00:47 - Intro music01:01 - Introducing Seraphim Hamilton and the Isaiah course01:48 - Seminary, liturgy, and returning to Scripture02:39 - Why Isaiah?03:02 - Isaiah as a Christological book05:27 - High Christology in the Old Testament06:52 - Leviathan, Revelation, and the Angel of the Lord07:51 - Isaiah 27 and the serpent of Genesis08:22 - Sennacherib, Hezekiah, and the Angel of the Lord10:51 - Are Old Testament prophecies taken out of context?11:18 - Exile, Assyria, Babylon, and biblical prophecy14:57 - Course promo: The Fifth Gospel15:47 - Isaiah 14 and the fall of Satan16:44 - The king of Babylon and the Daystar19:06 - Isaiah 14, Isaiah 53, and the suffering servant22:46 - Venus, Lucifer, and Christ as opposite images24:22 - Angels, humanity, and the transfer of authority25:57 - Is the suffering servant Israel or the Messiah?26:23 - The Messiah as the son of David28:50 - The servant, the seed, and the restoration of Israel32:13 - How the nations participate in the promise32:41 - The Old Testament and the redemption of the nations34:54 - The mountain of the Lord and divine fire37:34 - The heavenly Jerusalem and Isaiah 6038:02 - Isaiah 59, incarnation, and the redemption of Israel40:19 - The nations coming to honor the Jewish Messiah43:14 - What the Isaiah class hopes to offer43:56 - Seeing Christ disclosed in the Old Testament46:36 - Symbolism, the Fathers, and the tight weave of Scripture47:44 - Course details: five classes on Isaiah48:49 - Closing and where to sign up🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive monthly symbolism content: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau 🎧 Listen to and review The Symbolic World podcast:-Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0gI8bUwPtT3gkduHqNh6M5-Apple podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-symbolic-world/id1386867488 Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/
Transcribe →452 - Hillsdale talk - Mythological Thinking: The Crossroads of Psychology and Theology
1w ago01:20:43Tap to summarizeThis is a talk I did at Hillsdale College in March 2026. In this talk, I explore mythological thinking as a way of understanding how facts become meaningful. Facts do not present themselves to us neutrally. They are always organized by care, relevance, attention, and story. I look at examples from Genesis, Icarus, Spider-Man, the Tower of Babel, and modern science to show how myths preserve deep patterns of human experience. Rather than treating myth as fiction or primitive explanation, I argue that myth reveals the structures by which we perceive reality, understand purpose, and connect psychology with theology.YouTube version: https://youtu.be/DEShUddn8HYJoin Seraphim Hamilton in studying the Book of Isaiah this June. Register now to get 15% off before the early bird sale ends: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/the-fifth-gospel🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive monthly symbolism content: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau 🎧 Listen to and review The Symbolic World podcast:-Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0gI8bUwPtT3gkduHqNh6M5-Apple podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-symbolic-world/id1386867488 Timestamps:00:00 Coming up01:38 Intro music02:03 Introduction at Hillsdale College06:59 Talk begins: hope, fragmentation, and new conversations09:19 “Facts don’t care about your feelings”12:12 Care organizes facts16:50 Facts are always contained in a story19:15 The Fifth Gospel course announcement20:10 Why stories survive across generations24:04 Mythological stories vs. scientific descriptions27:14 Origin stories and why we care30:37 Genesis as more than a scientific text33:34 Genesis, relevance, and human categories37:38 Why the mythological story should be primary39:36 Myths are not primitive explanations41:47 Babel, Icarus, Prometheus, and repeated patterns44:16 Applicability vs. allegory47:40 All remembered stories are mythological49:24 Psychology, theology, and human care51:27 The Incarnation as the myth that came true54:34 How story unites psychology and theology58:29 Returning to mythological thinking59:55 Q&A: Bringing mythological thinking into science education01:02:58 Q&A: How to recognize false myths01:07:37 Q&A: Speaking truth in hostile circles01:08:53 Q&A: Original sin as a true myth01:11:13 Q&A: How artists discover truth through story01:13:42 Q&A: Why live by Christ’s story rather than another?01:18:21 Q&A: The modern fall into cold, hard realityOur website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/
Transcribe →451 - Universal History: What Really Happened in Eden - Dcn. Seraphim Rohlin
2w ago01:41:35Tap to summarizeA telling of the events in Genesis that you might never have heard before.In this episode of Universal History, Deacon Seraphim Rohlin and I return to Genesis through the Syriac tradition, especially the Cave of Treasures. This is the groundwork for understanding the universal history of Persia.Join Seraphim Hamilton in studying the Book of Isaiah this June. Register now to get 15% off before the early bird sale ends: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/the-fifth-gospelYouTube version: https://youtu.be/f--wBUEAxjYUniversal History playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLVX4HUUPrIY_M2uZP3yW6EEiod3fGD6FDTimestamps:00:00 - Coming up00:38 - Intro music01:03 - Why return to Genesis before Persia05:54 - Syriac sources and the Cave of Treasures08:21 - Tradition, Scripture, and how ancient stories are received12:55 - Melchizedek, Moriah, and hidden biblical patterns17:41 - The first day: creation, waters, and the leaven of life24:37 - The second day: the firmament and the waters above28:45 - The third day: earth, seeds, and creation’s hidden potential34:22 - Sterility, power, and modern artificial systems38:21 - The fourth day: sun, moon, stars, heat, and life43:45 - The sixth day: the formation of Adam45:23 - Adam’s glory and the angels’ fear52:17 - Satan refuses to venerate Adam56:56 - The chariot of fire and ascent into paradise59:19 - Eve, Adam’s side, and ancient wedding symbolism01:02:09 - Paradise as the Church01:06:47 - Jerusalem, the cross, and universal history01:10:55 - The fall, the serpent, and the mirror of temptation01:17:42 - Garments of skin and the body after the fall01:22:13 - Adam and Eve expelled from paradise01:27:00 - The Cave of Treasures and the first temple01:29:21 - Cain, Abel, and the first sacrifice01:31:42 - Cain’s jealousy and the first murder01:35:40 - Abel as the first martyr and first relic01:37:50 - Genesis as the pattern of the whole world🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive monthly symbolism content: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau 🎧 Listen to and review The Symbolic World podcast:-Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0gI8bUwPtT3gkduHqNh6M5-Apple podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-symbolic-world/id1386867488 Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/
Transcribe →450 - An Exploration of Modern Dysfunction: What Pluribus is Actually About
2w ago00:26:37Tap to summarizeIn this video, I look at the symbolism of the recent TV show, Pluribus. There's a lot of speculation about whether it's an allegory for AI, the internet, totalitarianism, or resisting tyranny. But I would argue that it's not allegorical at all, rather it's an exploration of a deeper ontological problem: the relationship of the one and the many, the inside and the outside, sameness and difference.Watch on YouTube: https://youtu.be/JIk5jpmf5D0🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive monthly symbolism content: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau 🎧 Listen to and review The Symbolic World podcast:-Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0gI8bUwPtT3gkduHqNh6M5-Apple podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-symbolic-world/id1386867488 Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/
Transcribe →449 - Decapitation Symbolism: The Glory of Losing Your Head
4w ago00:23:13Tap to summarizeIn this video, I explore the symbolism of decapitation in the Bible and Christian tradition. Beginning with Joseph’s interpretation of the baker and cupbearer in Genesis, we trace a pattern of “lifting up the head” through Scripture, martyrdom, the Eucharist, and ultimately the crucifixion and ascension of Christ. Along the way, we encounter Saint John the Baptist, the mystery of sacrifice, and the astonishing story of Saint Denis of Paris, who carried his own head while preaching after his martyrdom.YouTube version: https://youtu.be/uwRsUj30URkJoin us at the Symbolic World Summit | May 14-16 | Ohio | Keynote speakers: Jonathan Pageau, Fr. Josiah Trenham, Mary Harrington, Dcn. Seraphim Rohlin, Kale Zelden, Annie Crawford, and Heather PollingtonBuy your tickets: https://symbolicworldsummit.com/ Virtual tickets are now also for sale, and Involved+ patrons can get 10% off: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/virtual-summit-2026🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive monthly symbolism content: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/
Transcribe →448 - Fr. Josiah Trenham - How to Integrate Faith, Family, and Nation
Apr 2900:31:36Tap to summarizeI sat down with Fr. Josiah Trenham to talk about something that’s becoming harder to ignore: how to properly order your loyalties.We discussed the tension between faith, nation, family, and personal identity, and what happens when those come into conflict. Join us at the Symbolic World Summit, where Fr. Josiah will be one of the keynote speakers. May 14-16 | Ohio | Keynote speakers: Jonathan Pageau, Fr. Josiah Trenham, Mary Harrington, Dcn. Seraphim Rohlin, Kale Zelden, Annie Crawford, and Heather PollingtonBuy your tickets: https://symbolicworldsummit.com/ YouTube version of this episode: https://youtu.be/Ugt7XnbH0tQ🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive monthly symbolism content: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau 🎧 Listen to and review The Symbolic World podcast:-Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0gI8bUwPtT3gkduHqNh6M5-Apple podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-symbolic-world/id1386867488 Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/
Transcribe →447 - Annie Crawford - The Cosmic Alchemy of That Hideous Strength
Apr 2100:29:49Tap to summarizeIn this conversation with Annie Crawford, we explore the role of alchemy in C.S. Lewis’ That Hideous Strength. While alchemy is often dismissed as occult or irrelevant, Lewis uses its symbolism in a precise and meaningful way.We look at how the novel presents two forms of transformation: one rooted in control, technology, and disembodied power, and the other in sacrifice, order, and participation in the divine. This distinction speaks directly to how we understand modern technology, including AI.The discussion also touches on story structure, the nature of symbolic thinking, and how transformation is embedded in narrative itself.YouTube version: https://youtu.be/7WqrbWNHJBsJoin us at the Symbolic World Summit | May 14-16 | Ohio | Keynote speakers: Jonathan Pageau, Fr. Josiah Trenham, Mary Harrington, Dcn. Seraphim Rohlin, Kale Zelden, Annie Crawford, and Heather PollingtonBuy your tickets: https://symbolicworldsummit.com/ =====🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive monthly symbolism content: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau 🎧 Please review The Symbolic World podcast:-Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0gI8bUwPtT3gkduHqNh6M5-Apple podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-symbolic-world/id1386867488 Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/
Transcribe →446 - Universal History: How Kabbalah Shaped America: the Land of the End
Apr 1800:59:56Tap to summarizeThis is the final episode of our Universal History series on the American Religion. Deacon Seraphim Rohlin and I look at the religious ideas behind the American project, especially the influence of Kabbalah and the search for a “pure” and universal mystical tradition. We trace how early Protestants, thinkers like Thomas Jefferson, and figures like Ezra Stiles engaged with Jewish mysticism as part of their attempt to understand and shape America’s role in the universal history.- Watch the YouTube version of this episode: https://youtu.be/A563i-jrZs0- Watch the rest of this series here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLVX4HUUPrIY_U0msyBRVpwCI_srzn3tjL- Universal History playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLVX4HUUPrIY_M2uZP3yW6EEiod3fGD6FDTimestamps:00:00 - Coming Up01:10 - Intro Music01:35 - Introduction & Framing the Topic 02:28 - Jefferson, Adams & “Pure Religion” 05:23 - Kabbalah and the Founding Fathers 07:48 - Puritans, Quakers & Early American Mysticism 11:11 - Adam Kadmon & Christian Kabbalah 16:18 - George Keith & Quaker Debates 20:18 - Sabatianism & Messianic Movements 26:03 - Apocalyptic Expectations in Early America 29:44 - Judah Monis & Kabbalah in Harvard 33:48 - Kabbalah Used to Defend the Trinity 35:59 - Ezra Stiles & America as the New Israel 39:06 - America as the “New World” in Prophecy 42:49 - Loss of Christian Mysticism & Turning to Kabbalah 48:33 - America as the Promised Land Idea 51:50 - Is America the “End of the World”? 54:54 - The Contradictions of American Culture 58:10 - Final Reflections on America’s Spiritual Identity =====Join us at the Symbolic World Summit | May 14-16 | Ohio | Keynote speakers: Jonathan Pageau, Fr. Josiah Trenham, Mary Harrington, Dcn. Seraphim Rohlin, Kale Zelden, Annie Crawford, and Heather Pollington.Buy your tickets: https://symbolicworldsummit.com/ =====NEW COURSE: Plutarch: Symbolism in History with Pavel ShchelinThe problem with history is that you are in it. Plutarch teaches us to read power symbolically—asking "whom does the hero serve?" to predict leadership patterns before they play out.Presenter: Pavel ShchelinDuration: 8 weeks studying the lives of Greeks and Roman Lycurgus, Alcibiades, Lysander, Pompey, Caesar, and Octavian –as living patterns, not dead men.Live classes are on Wednesdays at 4-6pm Eastern Time, starting March 18th through May 6th, 2026.Price: $180 USD - Involved patrons can get a 10% discount. Apply your code at checkout. Register now: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/plutarch-symbolism-in-history =====🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive monthly symbolism content: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/
Transcribe →445 - Understanding the Icons of Holy Week
Apr 1000:29:32Tap to summarizeThis is a repost of a past video where I discussed the icons of Holy Week in the Orthodox Church and how they relate to each other as a unified symbolic pattern. Have a blessed Pascha.YouTube version: https://youtu.be/h55O4Kxs6tUJoin us at the Symbolic World Summit | May 14-16 | Ohio | Keynote speakers: Jonathan Pageau, Fr. Josiah Trenham, Mary Harrington, Dcn. Seraphim Rohlin, Kale Zelden, Annie Crawford, and Heather PollingtonBuy your tickets: https://symbolicworldsummit.com/ Timestamps:00:00 - Start / Introduction00:48 - Palm Sunday (Entry into Jerusalem)05:34 - Holy Monday (Bridegroom / Crown of Thorns)07:54 - Holy Tuesday (Wise & Foolish Virgins)10:15 - Holy Wednesday (Washing of the Feet)12:37 - Holy Thursday (Mystical Supper)14:36 - Holy Friday (Crucifixion)19:27 - Holy Saturday (Descent into Hades / Anastasis)21:47 - Resurrection & Empty Tomb24:09 - Burial & Laying in the Tomb26:20 - Conclusion / Meaning of Holy Week=====NEW COURSE: Plutarch: Symbolism in History with Pavel ShchelinThe problem with history is that you are in it. Plutarch teaches us to read power symbolically—asking "whom does the hero serve?" to predict leadership patterns before they play out.Presenter: Pavel ShchelinDuration: 8 weeks studying the lives of Greeks and Roman Lycurgus, Alcibiades, Lysander, Pompey, Caesar, and Octavian –as living patterns, not dead men.Live classes are on Wednesdays at 4-6pm Eastern Time, starting March 18th through May 6th, 2026.Price: $180 USD - Involved patrons can get a 10% discount. Apply your code at checkout. Register now: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/plutarch-symbolism-in-history =====🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive monthly symbolism content: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau 🎧 Listen to and review The Symbolic World podcast:-Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0gI8bUwPtT3gkduHqNh6M5-Apple podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-symbolic-world/id1386867488 Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/
Transcribe →444 - "FATHER": A symbolic analysis of Kanye West’s song and music video
Apr 800:29:32Tap to summarizeWith the release of Ye’s new album, Bully, many have asked about the music video for the song called “Father.” While the video is surreal and AI generated, it is not without meaning or structure. If you pay attention to broader, context, patterns, and the relationships between images, a coherent meaning begins to emerge.YouTube version: https://youtu.be/BG2psRcPH7oMy review of Ye's album Bully: https://x.com/PageauJonathan/status/2038374009382097289Ye: Father music video: https://youtu.be/HBMy-y2wb4I?si=OKlf4_0c8y1zJwV1SUMMIT 2026: Join us for the Symbolic World Summit 2026! Speakers include Fr. Josiah Trenham, Mary Harrington, Jonathan Pageau, Dn. Seraphim Rohlin, and others.Date: May 14-16Place: Broadview Heights, OHDon't miss out! https://symbolicworldsummit.com/=====NEW COURSE: Plutarch: Symbolism in History with Pavel ShchelinThe problem with history is that you are in it. Plutarch teaches us to read power symbolically—asking "whom does the hero serve?" to predict leadership patterns before they play out.Presenter: Pavel ShchelinDuration: 8 weeks studying the lives of Greeks and Roman Lycurgus, Alcibiades, Lysander, Pompey, Caesar, and Octavian –as living patterns, not dead men.Live classes are on Wednesdays at 4-6pm Eastern Time, starting March 18th through May 6th, 2026.Price: $180 USD - Involved patrons can get a 10% discount. Apply your code at checkout. Register now: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/plutarch-symbolism-in-history =====🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive monthly symbolism content: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/
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