Podcast
The Symbolic World
Hosted by Jonathan Pageau · EN
Jonathan Pageau looks at symbolism in all its forms, from its source in sacred stories and images to contemporary culture and ultimately how it shapes the world we encounter.
37episodes
Episodes
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460 - Dn. Seraphim Rohlin - Universal History: The Origin of the Nephilim
2d ago01:15:28Tap to summarizeIn this conversation with Deacon Seraphim Rohlin, we continue our exploration of Genesis through the Syrian tradition, looking especially at Seth (Adam and Eve’s son after Cain and Abel), the Nephilim, and the fall of the sons of God. What begins as a discussion of the descendants of Seth becomes a way of understanding the descent from the holy mountain, the corruption of Cain’s line, and the strange traditions around giants, demons, music, desire, and the second fall before the flood.YouTube version of this episode: https://youtu.be/3D2bRWrbKUUEpisode 1 of this series: https://youtu.be/f--wBUEAxjY?si=cJE6aczhbDx13AoIFr. Stephen De Young talking about Nephilim with Tucker Carlson: https://youtu.be/5x9vR5sKHFI?si=nBh9exyV3jkGYtWs📕 Buy Little Red Riding Hood now during the month of June and get the audiobook with for free: https://store.thesymbolicworld.com/📢 Join Seraphim Hamilton in studying the Book of Isaiah this June. Register now: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/the-fifth-gospel Books (outside of the Bible) mentioned:The Cave of TreasuresThe Book of the BeeBook of EnochBook of AdamKebra NagastJubilees🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive monthly symbolism content: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/
Transcribe →459 - The Future Belongs to Humans (Ottawa talk)
4d ago01:49:02Tap to summarizeThis is a talk I presented at Chesterton Academy of Ottawa earlier this year. YouTube version: https://youtu.be/ETaRAauDxS0Buy Little Red Riding Hood now during the month of June and get the audiobook with for free: https://store.thesymbolicworld.com/Join Seraphim Hamilton in studying the Book of Isaiah this June. Register now: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/the-fifth-gospel Timestamps:00:00 - Coming up00:51 - Intro music01:05 - Chesterton Academy introduction03:28 - Jonathan begins: art, AI, education, and the Pope’s encyclical05:53 - Why AI is not human intelligence08:18 - AI lacks embodied understanding10:47 - Money, efficiency, power, and the values behind AI13:07 - The Moloch trap and the AI arms race15:32 - AI’s impact on work and education17:01 - The anti-human vision of technocracy18:40 - What education is really for21:05 - Why learn art in the age of AI?23:50 - Little Red Riding Hood promotion24:46 - Remember, celebrate, and create25:57 - Remembering our stories and traditions29:36 - Celebrate what is good33:16 - Create in service of remembrance and celebration37:11 - Sincerity after irony and cynicism39:32 - Fairy tales, icons, and Christian visual language42:58 - Graphic novels, saints, and medieval storytelling44:28 - The challenge and opportunity of our time46:27 - Q: Is pessimism about AI justified?48:32 - Q: How can remembrance, celebration, and creation be transmitted practically in schools and families?53:23 - Q: Should schools return to oral exams and oral presentations because of AI?55:52 - Q: How much can we participate in or use AI without falling into the trap?58:31 - Q: What does cave art reveal about the relationship between man and art? Is art the signature of man?01:03:02 - Q: What is the difference between inventing something new and creating?01:07:20 - Q: Do strict rules in art stifle creativity? Why do people say beauty is subjective?01:10:04 - Q: How can we recover a true remembrance of the Middle Ages rather than seeing them as dark or backward?01:14:55 - Q: What is the difference between reading traditional stories and watching movies for entertainment?01:19:02 - Q: Why was beauty dismissed from art, and why is our built environment so ugly?01:21:07 - Q: What is your favorite piece of art in your home?01:23:28 - Q: Can AI be used as a Socratic interlocutor in education?01:26:36 - Q: What is the value of teaching classical languages like Latin and ancient Greek?01:27:45 - Q: How should young artists balance pursuing art with the need to make money?01:30:50 - Q: What is the importance of boredom, rest, silence, and imagination?01:33:15 - Q: Is re-enchantment, post-irony, and sincerity possible in an intentional way?01:37:08 - Q: How can different traditions unite against AI without losing their distinctiveness?01:41:39 - Q: How do we discern beauty in imperfect work, especially in a performative society focused on excellence?01:44:02 - Q: Where do you think AI is going, especially in education and culture?🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive monthly symbolism content: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau 🎧 Listen to and review The Symbolic World podcast:-Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0gI8bUwPtT3gkduHqNh6M5-Apple podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-symbolic-world/id1386867488 Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/
Transcribe →458 - What's at stake with The Odyssey (2026) by Christopher Nolan
1w ago00:19:54Tap to summarizeThere’s a lot of expectation and noise around Christopher Nolan’s upcoming movie, The Odyssey (2026). For decades after WW2 we were unable to tell many stories about kingship and fatherhood. As we move through the turbulent end of the WW2 consensus, stories like this form part of how we process the return of the father and identity.YouTube version: https://youtu.be/6prGX3wZKI8Buy Little Red Riding Hood now during the month of June and get the audiobook with for free. More than our other fairy tales, this one emphasizes the importance of the father’s role in protecting his family from the strange and subversive. https://store.thesymbolicworld.com/Join Seraphim Hamilton in studying the Book of Isaiah this June. Register now: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/the-fifth-gospel🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive monthly symbolism content: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau🎧 Listen to and review The Symbolic World podcast:-Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0gI8bUwPtT3gkduHqNh6M5-Apple podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-symbolic-world/id1386867488Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/
Transcribe →457 - Backrooms (2026): A Strange Return to Normal
1w ago00:24:54Tap to summarizeBackrooms (2026) is a recent horror/thriller film based on a creepypasta —an internet urban legend— that emerged around the time of the Covid lockdowns. A man discovers an infinite, labyrinthine expanse of "backrooms" that becomes increasingly disturbing.In this video, I analyze the symbolism of the film and explore the deeper reasons why it is so popular, outshining major blockbusters with much larger budgets and marketing campaigns. Enjoy.YouTube version: https://youtu.be/ZK6NaFsBGaMBuy Little Red Riding Hood now during the month of June and get the audiobook with for free: https://store.thesymbolicworld.com/Join Seraphim Hamilton in studying the Book of Isaiah this June. Register now: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/the-fifth-gospel🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive monthly symbolism content: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau🎧 Listen to and review The Symbolic World podcast:-Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0gI8bUwPtT3gkduHqNh6M5-Apple podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-symbolic-world/id1386867488Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/
Transcribe →
457 - Backrooms (2026): A Strange Return to Normal
1w ago00:24:53Tap to summarizeBackrooms (2026) is a recent horror/thriller film based on a creepypasta —an internet urban legend— that emerged around the time of the Covid lockdowns. A man discovers an infinite, labyrinthine expanse of "backrooms" that becomes increasingly disturbing.In this video, I analyze the symbolism of the film and explore the deeper reasons why it is so popular, outshining major blockbusters with much larger budgets and marketing campaigns. Enjoy.YouTube version: https://youtu.be/ZK6NaFsBGaMBuy Little Red Riding Hood now during the month of June and get the audiobook with for free: https://store.thesymbolicworld.com/Join Seraphim Hamilton in studying the Book of Isaiah this June. Register now: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/the-fifth-gospel 🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive monthly symbolism content: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau 🎧 Listen to and review The Symbolic World podcast:-Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0gI8bUwPtT3gkduHqNh6M5-Apple podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-symbolic-world/id1386867488 Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/
Transcribe →456 - Gavin Ortlund - Who Can Be Saved?
2w ago01:46:24Tap to summarizeI had a discussion with Gavin Ortlund about the Orthodox Church's position on salvation outside the church.YouTube version: https://youtu.be/RtC8ENpbOW4Buy Little Red Riding Hood now during the month of June and get the audiobook with for free: https://store.thesymbolicworld.com/Join Seraphim Hamilton in studying the Book of Isaiah this June. Register now: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/the-fifth-gospel Timestamps00:00 Introduction and background to the discussion03:08 Steelmanning each other’s positions04:12 Gavin summarizes the Orthodox view of salvation05:37 Jonathan explains salvation as healing and theosis06:36 Normative and non-normative ways of salvation08:13 Jonathan summarizes Gavin’s historical argument10:53 Gavin clarifies his thesis about Orthodoxy, Catholics, and Protestants16:40 Is the modern Orthodox view a return to earlier tradition?18:32 Gavin explains why the 9th–19th century period matters20:20 Disagreement over whether individuals can be declared damned22:57 Jonathan responds on Orthodox theological boundaries24:54 Debate over the 9th century and the Photian schism31:32 The question: Is Gavin a Christian brother?38:37 The Synod of Jerusalem and Protestant theology41:36 Jonathan reads from the Synod of Jerusalem43:56 Gavin responds to Jonathan’s use of an old blog post46:42 Gavin outlines the Synod’s language about Protestants49:12 Jonathan argues synods define norms, not individual destinies52:28 Gavin challenges the “normative” reading of the Synod55:20 Normative texts, dogmatic authority, and qualifications58:13 Theophan the Recluse and hope for the non-Orthodox01:04:16 St. Philaret of Moscow and leaving souls to God’s mercy01:09:35 Protestant missions in Orthodox lands01:11:23 Gavin defends Protestant missionary theology01:13:30 Jonathan critiques Protestant evangelism and denominationalism01:16:21 The Eucharist, communion, and institutional exclusivism01:18:16 Gavin explains why he is not Orthodox01:20:44 Jonathan on Christ’s presence and God’s desire to save all01:21:59 Are Protestants categorized like Buddhists or Muslims?01:25:36 Salvation as transformation into the image of Christ01:28:55 Theophan’s advice: focus on your own salvation01:30:06 Personal holiness and evangelism01:32:18 Calvinism, evangelism, and divine decree01:36:52 Predestination, foreknowledge, and the River of Fire01:39:59 Closing the theological discussion01:40:33 Gavin’s apology and reflections on online discourse01:42:59 A call for patient Protestant-Orthodox dialogue01:44:12 Jonathan’s closing thanks🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive monthly symbolism content: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau 🎧 Listen to and review The Symbolic World podcast:-Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0gI8bUwPtT3gkduHqNh6M5-Apple podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-symbolic-world/id1386867488 Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/
Transcribe →455 - Disclosure Day: The Last Boomer Propaganda Movie
2w ago00:22:20Tap to summarizeI went to see Spielberg’s Disclosure Day and found myself watching a strange, late-stage piece of boomer propaganda about aliens, media, religion, and who we are supposed to trust. Here are my thoughts on the symbolism of the film.Watch on YouTube: https://youtu.be/SBGPLaGfVTcBuy Little Red Riding Hood now during the month of June and get the audiobook with for free: https://store.thesymbolicworld.com/Join Seraphim Hamilton in studying the Book of Isaiah this June. Register now: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/the-fifth-gospel 🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive monthly symbolism content: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau 🎧 Listen to and review The Symbolic World podcast:-Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0gI8bUwPtT3gkduHqNh6M5-Apple podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-symbolic-world/id1386867488 Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/
Transcribe →454 - The Enemy Who Pretends to Be Your Friend
3w ago00:18:26Tap to summarizeWe often think of enemies as those who attack us openly, but fairy tales also warn us about another kind of enemy: the one who comes close, pretends to be our friend, and destroys from within. I also discuss how this pattern appears in Scripture, culture, identity, and even technology, and why discernment is so important in our current moment.Buy Little Red Riding Hood now during the month of June and get the audiobook with for free: https://store.thesymbolicworld.com/ YouTube version: https://youtu.be/U8VXqPX1-0QJoin Seraphim Hamilton in studying the Book of Isaiah this June. Register now: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/the-fifth-gospel 🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive monthly symbolism content: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau 🎧 Listen to and review The Symbolic World podcast:-Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0gI8bUwPtT3gkduHqNh6M5-Apple podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-symbolic-world/id1386867488 Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/
Transcribe →453 - Seraphim Hamilton - Isaiah: The Fifth Gospel
4w ago00:49:20Tap to summarizeI’m joined again by Seraphim Hamilton to discuss his upcoming Symbolic World course on Isaiah, beginning June 15th. We talk about why Isaiah is central for understanding Christ in the Old Testament, the relationship between prophecy, exile, the suffering servant, the gentile nations, and the deep symbolic unity between Scripture, liturgy, and creation.Join Seraphim Hamilton in studying the Book of Isaiah this June. Register now to get 15% off before the early bird sale ends: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/the-fifth-gospel YouTube version: https://youtu.be/lPpBFh2-V90Timestamps:00:00 - Coming up00:47 - Intro music01:01 - Introducing Seraphim Hamilton and the Isaiah course01:48 - Seminary, liturgy, and returning to Scripture02:39 - Why Isaiah?03:02 - Isaiah as a Christological book05:27 - High Christology in the Old Testament06:52 - Leviathan, Revelation, and the Angel of the Lord07:51 - Isaiah 27 and the serpent of Genesis08:22 - Sennacherib, Hezekiah, and the Angel of the Lord10:51 - Are Old Testament prophecies taken out of context?11:18 - Exile, Assyria, Babylon, and biblical prophecy14:57 - Course promo: The Fifth Gospel15:47 - Isaiah 14 and the fall of Satan16:44 - The king of Babylon and the Daystar19:06 - Isaiah 14, Isaiah 53, and the suffering servant22:46 - Venus, Lucifer, and Christ as opposite images24:22 - Angels, humanity, and the transfer of authority25:57 - Is the suffering servant Israel or the Messiah?26:23 - The Messiah as the son of David28:50 - The servant, the seed, and the restoration of Israel32:13 - How the nations participate in the promise32:41 - The Old Testament and the redemption of the nations34:54 - The mountain of the Lord and divine fire37:34 - The heavenly Jerusalem and Isaiah 6038:02 - Isaiah 59, incarnation, and the redemption of Israel40:19 - The nations coming to honor the Jewish Messiah43:14 - What the Isaiah class hopes to offer43:56 - Seeing Christ disclosed in the Old Testament46:36 - Symbolism, the Fathers, and the tight weave of Scripture47:44 - Course details: five classes on Isaiah48:49 - Closing and where to sign up🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive monthly symbolism content: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau 🎧 Listen to and review The Symbolic World podcast:-Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0gI8bUwPtT3gkduHqNh6M5-Apple podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-symbolic-world/id1386867488 Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/
Transcribe →452 - Hillsdale talk - Mythological Thinking: The Crossroads of Psychology and Theology
May 2901:20:43Tap to summarizeThis is a talk I did at Hillsdale College in March 2026. In this talk, I explore mythological thinking as a way of understanding how facts become meaningful. Facts do not present themselves to us neutrally. They are always organized by care, relevance, attention, and story. I look at examples from Genesis, Icarus, Spider-Man, the Tower of Babel, and modern science to show how myths preserve deep patterns of human experience. Rather than treating myth as fiction or primitive explanation, I argue that myth reveals the structures by which we perceive reality, understand purpose, and connect psychology with theology.YouTube version: https://youtu.be/DEShUddn8HYJoin Seraphim Hamilton in studying the Book of Isaiah this June. Register now to get 15% off before the early bird sale ends: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/the-fifth-gospel🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive monthly symbolism content: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau 🎧 Listen to and review The Symbolic World podcast:-Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0gI8bUwPtT3gkduHqNh6M5-Apple podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-symbolic-world/id1386867488 Timestamps:00:00 Coming up01:38 Intro music02:03 Introduction at Hillsdale College06:59 Talk begins: hope, fragmentation, and new conversations09:19 “Facts don’t care about your feelings”12:12 Care organizes facts16:50 Facts are always contained in a story19:15 The Fifth Gospel course announcement20:10 Why stories survive across generations24:04 Mythological stories vs. scientific descriptions27:14 Origin stories and why we care30:37 Genesis as more than a scientific text33:34 Genesis, relevance, and human categories37:38 Why the mythological story should be primary39:36 Myths are not primitive explanations41:47 Babel, Icarus, Prometheus, and repeated patterns44:16 Applicability vs. allegory47:40 All remembered stories are mythological49:24 Psychology, theology, and human care51:27 The Incarnation as the myth that came true54:34 How story unites psychology and theology58:29 Returning to mythological thinking59:55 Q&A: Bringing mythological thinking into science education01:02:58 Q&A: How to recognize false myths01:07:37 Q&A: Speaking truth in hostile circles01:08:53 Q&A: Original sin as a true myth01:11:13 Q&A: How artists discover truth through story01:13:42 Q&A: Why live by Christ’s story rather than another?01:18:21 Q&A: The modern fall into cold, hard realityOur website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/
Transcribe →