Podcast
The Symbolic World
Hosted by Jonathan Pageau · EN
Jonathan Pageau looks at symbolism in all its forms, from its source in sacred stories and images to contemporary culture and ultimately how it shapes the world we encounter.
50episodes
Episodes
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433 - Symbolism Happens! The Mandela Effect Is Not a Glitch in the Matrix
Jan 3000:22:55Tap to summarizeI explore the Mandela Effect from a symbolic perspective. The Mandela Effect is a psychological phenomenon where a large group of people collectively share the same false memory of an event, detail, or pop culture fact. It has stirred up conspiracy theories about parallel timelines and simulation theory. In this video I suggest the possibility that it's a strength, rather than a weakness, of human cognition - a sign of how consciousness forms coherence, how legends accumulate, and how symbols shape the way we see and remember the world.YouTube version: https://youtu.be/B-x5Ze04YEI=============NEW COURSE: The Art of Imitating Heaven: Structure and Meaning in Ancient Cosmology By Joshua SturgillWhat is heaven? Where is it? For ancient people, the answer was obvious: simply look up at the night sky. For them, to see the stars and planets was to see the face of the divine. Christianity, too, understood the visible sky as the realm of unfallen creation. What does this belief mean, and why was it lost?🗓 Live classes are on Sundays at 5-6:30pm Eastern Time, starting February 1st through March 8th, 2026.💰 Price: $150 USD⏰🐥 DON'T MISS OUT! UNTIL FEBRUARY 1ST YOU CAN GET THE EARLY BIRD SPECIAL OF 15% OFF! Discount automatically applied at checkout.Register now: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/the-art-of-imitating-heaven===============💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau 🔒 BECOME A PATRON: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/
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432 - Yelena Popovic - Moses the Black
Jan 2500:55:19Tap to summarizeI speak with filmmaker Yelena Popovic, who viewers may recognize as the director of the stunning film of the life of St. Nektarios of Aegina, Man of God (2021). In this interview we discuss her upcoming film, Moses the Black, releasing January 30th of this year. We talk about film making, her inspiration for the film, the people involved, the life story of St. Moses the Black, and repentance in general in the Orthodox faith.YouTube version: https://youtu.be/rzDVfbhaaGUFilm synopsis: Released from prison, a feared Chicago gang leader returns home to avenge the murder of his closest friend. As rival gangs and a corrupt cop close in, he must confront a past that refuses to let go.Release date: 30 January 2026 (USA)Director: Yelena PopovicProducers: Yelena Popovic, Alexandros Potter, Jelena Popović, Brett HaysExecutive producers: Omar Epps, 50 Cent, Wiz Khalifa et al.Production companies: G-Unit Films and Television Inc., Simeon Entertainment, LLC, BrooklynWorks FilmsRunning time: 1h 50mTheatres Showtimes Ticket Link: https://hubs.la/Q03Znnjy0Stay up to date about the film:Trailer: https://youtu.be/iZzpiu8L21Y?si=ZxXRxWuiL_yosuEY Website: https://simeonfaith.com/films/moses-the-black-2024 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mosestheblackmovie Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/mosestheblackmovie/ IMDB: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt32542065/ Timestamps:00:00 - Coming up01:14 - Intro music01:39 - Start02:32 - Introducing St. Moses the Black08:50 - St. Moses' death13:32 - The movie vs the hagiography31:29 - A harsh redemption35:13 - Sorry is not enough37:36 - See the whole story42:32 - Stories of St. Moses44:24 - Fr. Turbo49:45 - How can we watch this?51:43 - Other projects====================NEW COURSE: The Art of Imitating Heaven: Structure and Meaning in Ancient Cosmology By Joshua SturgillWhat is heaven? Where is it? For ancient people, the answer was obvious: simply look up at the night sky. For them, to see the stars and planets was to see the face of the divine. Christianity, too, understood the visible sky as the realm of unfallen creation. What does this belief mean, and why was it lost?🗓 Live classes are on Sundays at 5-6:30pm Eastern Time, starting February 1st through March 8th, 2026.💰 Price: $150 USD⏰🐥 DON'T MISS OUT! UNTIL FEBRUARY 1ST YOU CAN GET THE EARLY BIRD SPECIAL OF 15% OFF! Discount automatically applied at checkout.Register now: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/the-art-of-imitating-heaven====================💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau 🔒 BECOME A PATRON: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/
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431 - Joshua Sturgill & Dcn Seraphim Rohlin - The Art of Imitating Heaven: Structure and Meaning in Ancient Cosmology
Jan 2001:09:16Tap to summarize"Ancient people knew the sky the way that we know the highways around our cities."Today's podcast is a bit different. Deacon Seraphim Rohlin is here to introduce you to our new Symbolic World Course presenter, Joshua Sturgill. Together they discuss ancient cosmology, symbolism, and the meaning, power, and dangers of observing the night sky. They discuss pagan views on this, Biblical astronomy, the reservations of the church fathers, and modernity's determinism on the one hand, and confusion on the other hand. I hope you enjoy this conversation and will join us for Joshua's course.YouTube version: https://youtu.be/fQY6AyE1n1cNEW COURSE: The Art of Imitating Heaven: Structure and Meaning in Ancient Cosmology By Joshua SturgillWhat is heaven? Where is it? For ancient people, the answer was obvious: simply look up at the night sky. For them, to see the stars and planets was to see the face of the divine. Christianity, too, understood the visible sky as the realm of unfallen creation. What does this belief mean, and why was it lost?🗓 Live classes are on Sundays at 5-6:30pm Eastern Time, starting February 1st through March 8th, 2026.💰 Price: $150 USD⏰🐥 DON'T MISS OUT! UNTIL FEBRUARY 1ST YOU CAN GET THE EARLY BIRD SPECIAL OF 15% OFF! Discount automatically applied at checkout.Register now: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/the-art-of-imitating-heavenTimestamps:00:00 - Coming up01:00 - Intro music01:24 - Introduction04:15 - Recover cosmology08:32 - Symbolism and cosmology12:43 - The Greeks: Pythagoras and Plato14:39 - Other traditions16:07 - Criticisms against astronomy21:28 - How astrology worked25:24 - A concrete example26:57 - What does spring mean?30:47 - Christmas33:43 - The Orthodox position37:22 - Governed by natural laws45:55 - For the ancients59:30 - Architectural astronomy01:01:43 - Technology and teaching01:05:41 - Course info💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau 🔒 BECOME A PATRON: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/
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430 - JP Marceau - The Mythology of Demographic Collapse
Jan 900:40:47Tap to summarizeIn this interview, I sat down with Jean-Philippe Marceau—author of Post-Reductionist Christianity, our very first theory book at Symbolic World Press—to discuss his surprising and widely praised new Symbolic World article on the emerging global demographic crisis.We discuss the falling birth rates and all its symbolic, scriptural, political, economic, and technological implications and causes. JP’s article likens today’s demographic collapse to the biblical Flood, looking at the dangers of both progressive dissolution and a reactionary overcorrection, proving the fact that the future belongs to those who build families grounded in meaning and tradition.YouTube version: https://youtu.be/SBrTYadO3kECheck out JP’s article, ‘Is This the Flood? Is Babel Next?’: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/content/is-this-the-flood-is-babel-nextJP's book: https://store.thesymbolicworld.com/products/post-reductionist-christianity-a-way-out-of-the-meaning-crisis===================================COURSE: The Quest for the Holy Grail, with Dr. Martin ShawRegister now and get a FREE ebook of Dr. Martin Shaw's Snowy Tower: Parzival and the Wet Black Branch of Language!In the dark heart of January, when the nights are long and the world draws close, Dr. Martin Shaw returns to the Symbolic World to tell one of the greatest stories of the Medieval imagination: Parzival and the Holy Grail.From Monday through Friday, January 12–16, 2026, one of the world's great living storytellers will unspool the medieval epic that Joseph Campbell called the epicenter of Western myth. He’ll be lighting his fire, puffing a cigar, sipping on a whisky, and letting one of the greatest stories of all time lead us where it must.Clear your evenings. Put another log on the fire. This is the storytelling event of the year.🗓 Live classes will be over 5 consecutive days, January 12th-16th at 12pm-2pm EST💰 Price: $160 USD (Involved patrons qualify for 10% off, apply code at checkout.)All recordings will be made available on the same day.Register today: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/the-quest-for-the-holy-grail ===================================Timestamps:00:00 - Coming up00:53 - Intro music02:20 - Introduction to Demography and Its Significance05:15 - Genetics and Political Ideologies08:26 - Biblical Parallels: The Flood and Modern Society11:24 - The Consequences of the Sexual Revolution14:34 - Historical Patterns: Rome and Its Decline17:56 - The Watchers20:18 - Population and the WW2 Consensus22:25 - The Impact of Cultural and Religious Practices25:29 - The Challenge of Economic Systems29:49 - The Only Way Out💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau 🔒 BECOME A PATRON: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/
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429 - Martin Shaw - Longing and Mystery: The Quest for the Holy Grail
Jan 100:56:52Tap to summarizeIn this conversation, I sit down with storyteller and mythologist Martin Shaw to explore the Holy Grail. We talk about desire and longing, failure and mercy, chivalry and the feminine, and why the Grail stories continue to be relevant across centuries.YouTube version: https://youtu.be/3qDkPUsle3MCOURSE: The Quest for the Holy Grail with Dr. Martin ShawIn the dark heart of January, when the nights are long and the world draws close, Dr. Martin Shaw returns to Symbolic World Courses for an intensive week-long journey to tell one of the greatest stories of the Medieval imagination: Parzival and the Holy Grail.Register now: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/the-quest-for-the-holy-grail Cost: $160 USDDates of live course: January 12-16, 2026Time: 12 PM-2 PM EST, except for Lecture 3 (January 14) which will be at 4PM-6PM ESTLinks:-Pre-order Martin Shaw’s upcoming book, Liturgies of the Wild, to get an exclusive chapter: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/741189/liturgies-of-the-wild-by-martin-shaw/ -Martin’s other books, including Snowy Tower: https://drmartinshaw.com/books/ Events:-February 13-15, 2026, Orthodox Christian Arts Festival (Praise for the Beauty) in Texas, with speakers including Martin Shaw and Deacon Seraphim Richard Rohlin: https://www.orthodoxartsfestivaldfw.com/ -January 27, 2026, London, The Temenos Academy. Seeing the Patterned World: the Cosmos as Layered Microcosms, a talk by Jonathan Pageau with Dr. Martin Shaw in the chair. £10 General Admission. The Art Workers' Guild, 6 Queen Square, London, WC1N 3AT. Doors open at 6.10 pm, lecture begins at 6.30 pm. https://www.temenosacademy.org/events-programme/seeing-the-patterned-world Some other links of things mentioned:-Jonathan and Dcn Seraphim’s recent course on Dante’s Paradiso: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/dantes-paradiso-Jonathan’s analysis of Sir Gawain and the Green Knight: Part 1: https://youtu.be/Rg5RDZ7mMKo and Part 2: https://youtu.be/1ch1T24-W7Q -The Monks and Pirates discussion with Andrew Gould: https://youtu.be/WjMadP6DScM -Universal History: The American Religion episode: https://youtu.be/0_RKBPaQAyk Timestamps:00:00 - Coming up00:32 - Intro music02:00 - The cost of conversion05:49 - What is the Grail10:05 - Other hints of the Grail15:30 - To remain veiled17:45 - Who the stories are for19:42 - The place of chivalry24:46 - The Holy Virgin29:31 - Longing34:12 - Weakness has a seat at the table36:48 - Liturgies of the wild43:42 - Christianity in publishing💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau 🔒 BECOME A PATRON: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/
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397 - Nicholas Reeves - What Is Music?
May 31, 2025Tap to summarizeIn this conversation, I sit down with composer and church musician Nicholas Reeves to explore one of the great mysteries: music. Why does music move us so deeply? How does it reflect symbolic patterns in reality? We discuss the ancient and modern roles of music—from sacred liturgies to EDM dance floors—and ask whether the liturgy might be the ultimate artwork. We also dive into the contrasts between order and chaos in sound, the compression of human experience, and the sacred role of communal participation in worship. This discussion really opened new paths for me—I hope it does the same for you.Nicholas’s work can be found at: https://www.nicholasreevesmusic.comYouTube version: https://youtu.be/26ORdueGcIoNEW COURSE: Scripture: The Key to Reality, presented by Seraphim HamiltonThis course is designed to help students appreciate the unique role the Bible plays in helping us step into the world as it truly is: a symbolic revelation of the Infinite God. Scripture is symbolic because it is a revelation of Jesus Christ, and Jesus Christ is the Archetype of the World. In a way, then, Scripture enfolds within itself the totality of the world, guiding its hearers to see an icon of Christ in each of God’s creatures: from trees to beasts to priests.🗓 Live classes are on Tuesday at 2 - 4 pm Eastern Time, starting June 10th through July 15th, 2025⏰ Class Length: 5 sessions, 10 hours total💰 Register for Seraphim Hamilton's course before the end of May to get 15% off when you use the code EARLYSCRIP1 at checkout. 💰 Cost: 120 USD (102 USD with the discount)👉 Register Today: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/scripture-the-key-to-reality Timestamps:00:00 - Coming up01:29 - Intro music01:55 - Introduction02:50 - Understanding ourselves through music10:22 - The human voice18:56 - Rhythm21:11 - Dance and what music is24:40 - Variety and sameness32:08 - Reinventing yourself35:21 - Church music43:57 - Continuity46:56 - Moments in liturgy49:30 - Music in America54:54 - The complete work of art59:14 - Making pop culture more participative💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau 🔒 BECOME A PATRON: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/
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263 - Bernardo Kastrup - The Fall Into Meta-Consciousness
Nov 18, 2022Tap to summarizeThis is a repost of my second conversation with Bernardo Kastrup on the More Christ channel and podcast. We discuss the question of different levels and kinds of consciousness, agency, meta-consciousness, spontaneous (“unconscious”) intelligence, intuition, the boundaries of identity, team dynamics and how all of this tie in with the Genesis narrative. This podcast was derived from: https://youtu.be/BUaVNrktCk4 Original interview: Episode 88: Jonathan Pageau/Bernardo Kastrup 2: Consciousness, Meta-Consciousness, God, and Morality: https://youtu.be/_-aadYA6S6A My previous discussion with Bernardo Kastrup: Episode 75: Jonathan Pageau/Bernardo Kastrup: Orthodoxy, Resurrecting the Western Mind, Body & Soul: https://youtu.be/usFMBUTkaLk ================== - The Symbolic World website and blog: www.thesymbolicworld.com - Merch: www.thesymbolicworld.store - Language of Creation, by Matthieu Pageau: www.amazon.com/Language-Creation…ook/dp/B07D738HD8 Support this podcast: - Website: https://thesymbolicworld.com/support/ - Patreon: www.patreon.com/pageauvideos - Subscribestar: www.subscribestar.com/jonathan-pageau - Paypal: www.paypal.me/JonathanPageau Join the conversation: - Unofficial Facebook discussion group: www.facebook.com/groups/1989208418065298/ - The Symbolic World Reddit: www.reddit.com/r/TheSymbolicWorld/ Social media links: - Facebook: www.facebook.com/TheSymbolicWorld - Twitter: www.twitter.com/pageaujonathan - Instagram: www.instagram.com/jonathan.pageau My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson. My website designers, Anomalist Design: www.anomalistdesign.com/
Transcribe →241 - Richard Rohlin - Universal History: The Hordes of Gog and Magog
Jun 30, 2022Tap to summarizeThis is part 2 of a series of discussions on the symbolism of the far east with Richard Rohlin, as part of our Universal History series. In this episode we talk about the meaning of Gog and Magog and instances in history that gave rise to this image of the hordes breaching the wall. - Original video: https://youtu.be/jeL6IM6ZJYc - Part 1: Universal History: Beyond the Horizon: The Symbolism of the Far East | with Richard Rohlin: https://youtu.be/OoKxq9QFx2c - Full Universal History playlist: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLVX4HUUPrIY_M2uZP3yW6EEiod3fGD6FD Richard Rohlin’s work: - Richard Rohlin’s article on The Symbolic World blog: https://thesymbolicworld.com/articles/folk-stories-traditions/the-symbolism-of-st-dionysius-the-areopagite/ - Amon Sûl podcast (Exploring the Tolkien Legendarium with the Christian Faith): https://www.ancientfaith.com/podcasts/amonsul =============== Books mentioned: - The Greek Alexander Romance (Penguin Classics): https://www.amazon.com/Greek-Alexander-Romance-Penguin-Classics/dp/0140445609 - Apocalypse. An Alexandrian World Chronicle (Dumbarton Oaks Medieval Library): https://www.amazon.com/Apocalypse-Alexandrian-Chronicle-Dumbarton-Medieval/dp/0674053079 - City of God (Image Classics) by St. Augustine: https://www.amazon.com/City-God-Image-Classics-Augustine/dp/0385029101 - The Last Battle by C. S. Lewis: https://www.amazon.com/Last-Battle-C-S-Lewis/dp/006447108X - Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire: The Modern Library Collection (Complete and Unabridged) by Edward Gibbon: https://www.amazon.com/Decline-Fall-Roman-Empire-Collection-ebook/dp/B00AP2XWA8 Podcasts mentioned: - Dan Carlin’s Hardcore History 43-47 – Wrath of the Khans Series ($12.99): https://www.dancarlin.com/product/hardcore-history-wrath-of-the-khans-series/ - Universal History: the Mystery of Ethiopia | with Richard Rohlin (Ethiopia #1): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czy7MnDXOO0 - Lord of Spirits podcast (Ancient Faith Ministries): https://www.ancientfaith.com/podcasts/lordofspirits Of relevance: Pentecost for the Zombie Apocalypse: https://orthodoxartsjournal.org/pentecost-for-the-zombie-apocalypse/ ============== - The Symbolic World website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com - Merch: http://www.thesymbolicworld.store - Language of Creation, by Matthieu Pageau: https://www.amazon.com/Language-Creation-Cosmic-Symbolism-Genesis-ebook/dp/B07D738HD8 Support this podcast: - Website: https://thesymbolicworld.com/support/ - Patreon: http://www.patreon.com/pageauvideos - Subscribestar: https://www.subscribestar.com/jonathan-pageau - Paypal: http://www.paypal.me/JonathanPageau Join the conversation: - Unofficial Facebook discussion group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1989208418065298/ - The Symbolic World Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/TheSymbolicWorld/ Social media links: - Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/TheSymbolicWorld - Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/pageaujonathan - Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jonathan.pageau My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson. My website designers, Anomalist Design: https://www.anomalistdesign.com/
Transcribe →237 - Bernardo Kastrup - The Priority of Mind
Jun 8, 2022Tap to summarizeThis is a repost from my conversation with Bernardo Kastrup on the More Christ podcast and YouTube channel. We discuss dissociation and the problem of unity and multiplicity, how the Western mind approaches the world and what we have lost in modernity, banality, heavenly hierarchy and transcendence, crisis in the West and recovering the sacramental life without sentimentality. Bio (from his website): Bernardo Kastrup is the executive director of Essentia Foundation. His work has been leading the modern renaissance of metaphysical idealism, the notion that reality is essentially mental. He has a Ph.D. in philosophy (ontology, philosophy of mind) and another Ph.D. in computer engineering (reconfigurable computing, artificial intelligence). As a scientist, Bernardo has worked for the European Organization for Nuclear Research (CERN) and the Philips Research Laboratories (where the 'Casimir Effect' of Quantum Field Theory was discovered). Formulated in detail in many academic papers and books, his ideas have been featured on 'Scientific American,' the 'Institute of Art and Ideas,' the 'Blog of the American Philosophical Association' and 'Big Think,' among others. Bernardo’s website: https://www.bernardokastrup.com/ Original video: More Christ: Jonathan Pageau & Bernardo Kastrup: Orthodoxy and the Resurrection of the Western Mind, Body, & Soul: https://youtu.be/usFMBUTkaLk YouTube: https://youtu.be/LglZNsmol58 Mentioned: - The Book of Enoch: Fallen Angels and the Modern Crisis: https://youtu.be/QtmLCK1keFI - The Mythical Constantinople | with Dr. Mario Baghos: https://youtu.be/3vGTGBW8CS4 - The Symbolic World website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com - Merch: http://www.thesymbolicworld.store - Language of Creation, by Matthieu Pageau: https://www.amazon.com/Language-Creation-Cosmic-Symbolism-Genesis-ebook/dp/B07D738HD8 Support this podcast: - Website: https://thesymbolicworld.com/support/ - Patreon: http://www.patreon.com/pageauvideos - Subscribestar: https://www.subscribestar.com/jonathan-pageau - Paypal: http://www.paypal.me/JonathanPageau Join the conversation: - Unofficial Facebook discussion group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1989208418065298/ - The Symbolic World Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/TheSymbolicWorld/ Social media links: - Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/TheSymbolicWorld - Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/pageaujonathan - Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jonathan.pageau My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson. My website designers, Anomalist Design: https://www.anomalistdesign.com/
Transcribe →142 - Matt Fradd - Icons vs Porn
Feb 15, 2021Tap to summarizeSupport this channel: thesymbolicworld.com/support/ patreon: www.patreon.com/pageauvideos subscribestar: www.subscribestar.com/jonathan-pageau paypal: www.paypal.me/JonathanPageau Matt Fradd from Pints with Aquinas and I get to know each other and we discuss iconography, religious art, nudity, pornography and how Christianity has found solutions to these questions. Original Video: www.youtube.com/watch?v=oN771heEs4U My links: website: www.thesymbolicworld.com facebook: www.facebook.com/TheSymbolicWorld/ twitter: twitter.com/pageaujonathan The podcast was edited by Justin Ward.
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