#705 - Pardoned By Trump: From $27 Billion to Losing it All - Trevor Milton Tells All to Tai Lopez

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Tai Lopez Show – Ep. 705

Pardoned By Trump: From $27 Billion to Losing it All – Trevor Milton Tells All to Tai Lopez

Date: April 22, 2025
Host: Tai Lopez
Guest: Trevor Milton, founder of Nikola Corporation

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Episode Overview

In this intense, emotional, and wide-ranging interview, Tai Lopez sits down with Trevor Milton, founder of Nikola Corporation, just days after Milton was granted a full and unconditional presidential pardon by Donald Trump. Most known for building Nikola into a $34 billion company before facing federal prosecution and losing almost everything, Milton breaks his silence for the first time to discuss the rise and fall of Nikola, his criminal conviction and legal battles, the emotional and psychological toll on his personal life, systemic issues within the US justice system, and his shocking pardon by Trump.

The conversation blends first-person hardship, commentary about justice and entrepreneurship in America, and both men’s broader thoughts on technology, government, and the future.

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Key Themes and Discussion Points

1. The Emotional Toll and Trauma of Legal Persecution

• Milton opens up about the psychological devastation he experienced, alleging profound government overreach and misconduct:

  “I'm the happiest bubbly guy in the world, and I can handle almost anything until the government comes after your family, just tries to destroy you, takes every asset you have, lies about you, destroys your name…” (00:00)

• He attributes some of the aggressive prosecution to his political associations and support for Trump.

• Milton describes a period of profound depression and near hopelessness:

  “They strip you of every single thing that they know that can drive you to the point of killing yourself. And this is what they hope you do.” (00:33)

• Tai relates and discusses the idea of “flatlining” one's emotions – a coping mechanism for surviving extreme adversity.

Notable Quote:

"Flatline it. During your period of the most hell, you are no longer allowed to have emotion... The ups and downs are what kill you." – Trevor Milton (51:05)

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2. The Trump Pardon — A Literal Lifeline

• Milton recounts in detail the unprecedented moment when he received a call from President Donald Trump granting him a pardon:

  "I'm sitting at the table with my wife... all of a sudden I get a call, and it's Trump on the line..." (00:40, 64:42, 68:04)

• Trump not only reviewed his case but expressed outrage at the prosecution:

  “I’ve reviewed your case. It’s an abomination to the justice system. These people are evil, disgusting, despicable, and they’re no longer going to be able to hurt you, Trevor, ever again.” (01:14, 68:16)

• Details Trump’s warmth and detailed knowledge of Milton’s family, calling Milton cleaner than anyone, “even cleaner than I am.” (74:56)

Notable Quote:

“I wanted you to hear me when I signed it… you are officially pardoned. You are cleaner than any person on this earth… even cleaner than I am, Trevor.” – Donald J. Trump (75:23)

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3. Systemic Critique: US Justice System, Prosecutors, and Jury Bias

• Milton describes being tried in New York, dragged thousands of miles from home, and facing a legal system he claims is rigged against the accused, especially in high-profile cases:

  “It is impossible, impossible to get a fair trial in New York. You're done. And so it doesn't matter who you are and how much money you have, you will be convicted 100% of the time.” (02:45, 10:06)

• Criticizes prosecutors as “trophy hunting” for careers, using high-profile cases to secure lucrative private sector jobs:

  “They use you in the resume, and they go… get these massive jobs. So they blame you for being rich, and then… become rich themselves. It’s like, disgusting.” (22:30)

• Alleges jury bias, with one juror in his case admitting online to a goal of “abolishing the billionaire class.”

  “I imagine if someone was on a jury… and their resolution was to abolish the Hispanic race… that’s how disgusting this was.” (16:56)

• Cites deep state “trophy hunting,” deep distrust in media, and the “weaponization” of prosecutors (17:56, 17:38, 97:43).

Notable Quote:

"The judges and the people… won’t stand for it [in Arizona]. In New York… they have 100% conviction rate… They incentivize misconduct, they look for those people." – Trevor Milton (17:38)

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4. Nikola Corporation: Creation, Collapse, and Narrative Control

• Shares his entrepreneurial journey: from building trucks in his basement to being at the helm of a $34 billion company.

  “We built it in my basement… Peaked at $34 billion.” (07:34)

• Details allegations: Short sellers, false narratives about Nikola’s technology, and government accusations focused not on theft or fraud—but allegedly on speech and promotional language.

  “What did the government do? They indicted me for speech. That's a dangerous area… They were trying to… indict people for speech they didn't believe with.” (04:03, 24:38)

• Alleges he was prevented from presenting exculpatory evidence during trial:

  “I asked the judge… I want to show the jury the trucks. And what did he say? No… undermining the ability to have fair evidence introduced to trial.” (28:23)

• Milton maintains that no funds were misappropriated and that, in contrast, government action directly destroyed investor value:

  “The government… caused thousands of investors massive amounts of losses. Not me, the government.” (30:07)

Notable Quote:

"Not $1 was ever missing, not $1 misappropriated… They came after me because I used the present tense of a verb." – Trevor Milton (25:28)

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5. Impact on Family and Personal Life

• Details the devastating impact on his marriage and family, including his wife’s near-fatal medical accident.

• Expresses regret not for himself but for the pain the ordeal caused loved ones.

  “The pain and what I had to go through… what happened with my family, what happened with them… I would only say no [if I had to do it again] because of what it did to my family.” (09:08)

• Recalls periods of abandonment and anger at God, and how his hardships forced him to rethink faith, purpose, and priorities in life (54:38–57:56).

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6. Systemic Bias: Media, Banking, and Social Platforms

• Discusses being “de-banked” and losing access to basic financial services, social media, and trading platforms on the mere basis of allegations, not convictions (81:33).

  “J.P. Morgan debanked me. Chase… Twitter deleted all my followers… deep platformed across the board.” (81:33–83:42)

• Warns about the loss of innocent-until-proven-guilty in American institutions.

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7. Positive Future and Criminal Justice Reform

• Milton is now committed to advocating for criminal justice reform during Trump's administration, laying out ideas for structural changes (10:14–20:25).

  “Criminal reform… is going to be one of my main focuses for the next 10 years… If we don't get it done, it'll never get done in history.” (10:14)

• Suggests giving defendants control over trial venue and limiting prosecutors' ability to "trophy hunt" (20:07–20:35).

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8. Reflections on Entrepreneurship and Advice

• Shares entrepreneurship lessons: success is rare and comes after many failures; the best play to their natural strengths and curiosity, persisting in their “top 1%” skill:

  “The very best will fail a lot. You can't take that personal… Find your top 1% and you'll become wildly successful even if it takes you two or three times.” (99:38, 103:03)

• Underscores importance of time and family over money and external success:

  “The most valuable thing you have in your entire life is time and your family… when they took my freedom, assets, everything, the only thing I cared about was my family.” (106:32–108:28)

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9. The Future: Technology, Matter Control, and Human Destiny

• Looks ahead with a mix of optimism and caution. Predicts that the next technological revolution may revolve around control of matter ("levitation") and that AI and quantum computers could drive unimaginable change – and risks:

  “We will learn how to crack material and matter control… That’s the… transportation, that’s the computer… and then that’s the next one.” (113:27–118:20)

• Expresses belief in coming advances, but fear about humanity’s tendency to self-destruct with new power.

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• On Pardon & Redemption:

  "I wanted you to hear me when I signed it… you are officially pardoned. You are cleaner than any person on this earth… even cleaner than I am, Trevor.”
  – Donald Trump (75:23)

• On the Justice System:

  "It is impossible, impossible to get a fair trial in New York… 100% of the time."
  – Trevor Milton (02:45)

• On Entrepreneurial Lessons:

  "Find your top 1% and you'll become wildly successful even if it takes you two or three times."
  – Trevor Milton (103:03)

• On Wealth vs. What Matters:

  "The most valuable thing you have in your entire life is time and your family."
  – Trevor Milton (106:32)

• On Government and Reform:

  "You have to strip [government] down 90%... We ought to be turning things over to our neighborhoods, not our federal government."
  – Trevor Milton (96:31)

• On Handling Trauma:

  "Flatline it… The ups and downs are what kill you… If you can keep the flat line... you'll make it."
  – Trevor Milton (51:05)

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Important Segment Timestamps

• Trevor Receives Trump's Call: 00:40, 64:42, 68:04
• Explaining the Judicial Bias & Jury Issues: 15:25–18:08, 28:00
• Nikola's Ascent and "Downhill Truck" Accusations: 07:34–14:14, 24:38–28:45
• Describing Family and Personal Collapse: 09:08, 52:21
• Systemic Media & Financial De-platforming: 81:33–83:42
• Criminal Justice Reform Ideas: 10:14–20:25
• Entrepreneurial and Life Advice: 99:38–104:41
• Speculating on Future Technology: 109:40–118:20

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Memorable Moments

• Milton’s vulnerability discussing his depression, suicidal thoughts, and flatline coping strategy (51:05).
• Detailed, emotional description of Trump’s pardon calls, including Trump’s compassion and humor (74:49–76:53).
• Tai’s and Trevor’s candid discussion on building resilience through adversity and finding fulfillment beyond wealth (61:14–64:42, 106:32–108:28).
• Offbeat but intriguing predictions for the future of technology—suggesting humans will one day control matter, possibly reinventing transportation and more (109:40–118:20).

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Tone and Language

• Language: Raw, unfiltered, candid. Both men occasionally swear and use vivid metaphors. Milton, especially, speaks with urgency—a mixture of disbelief, pain, and a deep desire to set the record straight.
• Tone: Largely emotional, impassioned, and sometimes conspiratorial. The spirit is combative but also introspective and, ultimately, hopeful for reform and redemption.

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Summary Takeaways

• Trevor Milton frames his ordeal not as a just prosecution but as government overreach, politicization, and systemic failure.
• His journey through mental, professional, and spiritual crisis gives way to a renewed focus on personal values: family, time, truth.
• He sees the justice system, media, and financial infrastructure in the US as fundamentally broken—and makes a forceful case for radical reform.
• Despite profound loss, he remains deeply entrepreneurial, philosophical, and forward-thinking, ending on sober but fascinating predictions for society’s future.

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For listeners seeking a blend of business war stories, legal drama, and heartfelt life philosophy—plus a unique, behind-the-scenes account of a Trump presidential pardon—this episode is both gripping and thought-provoking.

Transcript

[Trevor Milton]

I'm the happiest bubbly guy in the world, and I can handle almost anything until the government comes, comes after your family, just tries to destroy you, takes every asset you have, lies about you, destroys your name, destroys your relationships, cancels you with banks, cancels you with credit card companies, cancels you with every single program you own in your life. They strip you of every single thing that they know that can drive you to the point of killing yourself. And this is what they hope you do. And I fought like a mother, effort to the very last second, until they were days away from taking everything from me and throwing me in prison. And that's when I got a call from President Trump. It was nothing short of a miracle in this life. So I'm sitting at the table with my wife, literally just sitting there. All of a sudden I get a call, all of a sudden it's Trump on the line. He's. Is this Trevor? And I said, yeah. He's like, trevor, this is, you know, Donald J. Trump. President Trump. How are you doing? Well, I'm doing. I'm doing okay. It's been pretty tough, but I'm, you know, obviously I'm doing happy you've called. What a great, you know, great thing to hear from the president. United States. Not a thing that happens every day.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

And then he says, well, I have a feeling, Trevor, you're going to have a really, really good day. He says, I just wanted to let you know that I'm going to be giving you a full and unconditional pardon.

[Tai Lopez]

Wow.

[Trevor Milton]

I reviewed your case. It's an abomination to the justice system. These people are evil, disgusting, despicable, and they're no longer going to be able to hurt you, Trevor, ever again. And he says, who are you with? I said, my wife. And he was like, chelsea, just want to let you know that I'm really glad that you're there with him right now to see this, because it's a moment you guys will remember forever. And he says, I'll be back to you soon. Okay? And I'm like, I don't even know how to take this at this moment. I'm like, the whole world like this, going from hell on Earth. Even the last few hours before that were hell, because the government literally, at that day before, just the day before, I think it was just signed the order to go in and try to seize every asset I own.

[Tai Lopez]

Wow.

[Interviewer/Host]

Were they going to take essentially everything.

[Trevor Milton]

I own, leave you with just the clothes, not even that. They'll give you pajamas. Well, journalists actually said, Mr. President, why did you pardon Trevor Milken? And his response was epic. They say it was very unfair. And they say the thing that he did wrong was he was one of the first people that supported a gentleman named Donald Trump. And when I heard about it, I said, nope, not going to happen. They persecuted. They destroyed five years of his life, and he did nothing wrong, and he's a good person.

[Interviewer/Host]

And you think Trump was good for the country?

[Trevor Milton]

If he wouldn't have won, I think we would. I think our country would have four years. It would have completely collapsed. Prosecutors told the jury that I was a bank robber. This is how up it is. He actually. They actually said, and he pointed the gun at your face, and he's taking the money out of the bank, and it's up to you to stop him. That is prosecutorial misconduct to a team.

[Tai Lopez]

Right.

[Trevor Milton]

You're not allowed to allege a crime of. And in stoke that kind of violence, we objected. Move for a. For a. For a whole new trial. And the judge didn't even care. I looked at the jury and I said, you know, if God does exist, I'll tell you what. The pain and destruction you just did by throwing it and ruining an innocent person's life and giving the government more power to destroy more innocent lives, you're going to pay more than I ever will. It is impossible, impossible to get a fair trial in New York. You're done. And so it doesn't matter who you are and how much money you have, you will be convicted 100% of the time.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

And that's not how America should be. Actually, in Arizona, the feds down there actually looked into it to see if it was fake. Showed up, went out for drives in the car in the trucks, walked away and said, everything's fine. It's not a fake fraud. The prosecutor said in trial that my trucks were all fake, which is the common belief in the mar. Like, right. If you look around on line, it's all, trevor's a fraud. The trucks were fake. And guess what? I asked the judge, your honor, I want to show the jury the trucks. And what did he say? No.

[Tai Lopez]

Huh?

[Interviewer/Host]

Why?

[Trevor Milton]

So, your honor, they are. They're telling me that these trucks. They're telling the jury that these trucks are fake, yet you won't let me show them. He says, you can show them in photos, but the government's alleging that the photos and everything are fake. So essentially, what they're doing is they're undermining the ability to have fair evidence introduced to trial. Yeah, so.

[Interviewer/Host]

So you wanted to show a video.

[Trevor Milton]

I wanted to show the damn truck out in front of the courthouse.

[Tai Lopez]

Oh, okay.

[Trevor Milton]

So this is one reason why I got pardoned from Trump. Trump came in and said there was not a dollar missing. There was no documents destroyed. There was no filings incorrect with the sec. The government admitted all that. None. So what did the government do? They indicted me for speech. Now, that's a dangerous area to go to. That's what's happening around the world right now. And they were trying to. I believe it was the Biden administration that was trying to extend the power of prosecutors to indict people for speech they didn't believe with, especially on social media. So I was the poster boy for. Because I supported. Because they could use my case to further their re. Overreach of indicting anyone based upon things they don't agree with.

[Tai Lopez]

Yes.

[Interviewer/Host]

Welcome to the Tai Lopez Show. I've got Trevor Milton Nikola Corporation just pardoned by President Donald J. Trump. One of the biggest pieces of business news that I've seen in a long time. You built a alternative, you know, energy transportation company, car company from zero in your backyard or basement or garage, as I like. I'm here in my garage, guy. And went to 34 billion at its peak. And then the government came in and all of these things leading up to a conviction, but then leading up to a pardon.

[Tai Lopez]

So.

[Interviewer/Host]

Welcome on the show, man.

[Trevor Milton]

What an intro. Yeah. Trevor. Hey, what's up, man? How you doing? Welcome. Thanks, man.

[Interviewer/Host]

How was the. Did you take the helicopter here?

[Trevor Milton]

No, we did fly. It was the plane, but it was beautiful weather. Awesome. Gorgeous here, man. Nice place.

[Interviewer/Host]

I appreciate it.

[Trevor Milton]

Thank you.

[Interviewer/Host]

I know you're from Wyoming. That movie Wind river is like the most underrated movie of the last couple years. Last decade, actually.

[Trevor Milton]

It is a. It's a wild frontier out there. So, like America, what it used to be like, you know, before it got settled. Yes, it's really like that. Like, just wild, wild west.

[Interviewer/Host]

My first mentor, Joel Salatin, is a libertarian, so he thinks the government has so much overreach. I was kind of trained in that thinking, so, oh, we're gonna have some fun today. I'm interested to hear the story.

[Trevor Milton]

It's awesome.

[Interviewer/Host]

The deep state.

[Trevor Milton]

Well, it's changed a lot for me because I used to not believe that. Now, you know.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah, you don't believe it until it happens to you, and then you're. I. I know what you're talking about. Nobody's a conspiracy theorist until it happens to them.

[Trevor Milton]

It happens to them.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

It's like.

[Trevor Milton]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

Like that lady who was on stage, the comedian making fun of people, saying that Covid will cause a heart attack. And then she fell over dead. I'm like.

[Trevor Milton]

Yeah, thank you.

[Interviewer/Host]

So here I want to start out. So for people who don't know, around 2014, you started the corporation, is that right?

[Trevor Milton]

That's right, yeah.

[Tai Lopez]

Okay.

[Interviewer/Host]

And it was based little we're talking about, you know, Tesla is the electric car company and you had the first name of Nikola Tesla.

[Trevor Milton]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

And so you built it there. And I'm sure Elon Musk and then were excited when you did that.

[Trevor Milton]

I don't think he was at all. It's okay. I think that was like. Yeah, definitely a. It wasn't a poke meant to be him at him at all. It was really the fact that I just. Just like everybody, everyone loves Nikola Tesla. And it was like one of the most brilliant minds that ever lived.

[Tai Lopez]

Yes.

[Trevor Milton]

And I was really paying homage to him.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

And it didn't even cross my mind to think anything much about Tesla.

[Tai Lopez]

Yes.

[Trevor Milton]

I figured if he wanted that name, he would have reserved it. And they never did. So I was like, hey, great name.

[Tai Lopez]

Yes.

[Trevor Milton]

We built it in my basement. I mean, the company started literally in my basement. Like a lot of really cool, you know, like Apple.

[Interviewer/Host]

And it went from zero and it was at. Peaked at about 30 billion.

[Trevor Milton]

34 billion.

[Interviewer/Host]

34 billion.

[Trevor Milton]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

How did that feel?

[Trevor Milton]

I got her ass kicked. Right. I'm sorry. We got our butts kicked right after that. Man, he was rough.

[Interviewer/Host]

How long did it hold at that high?

[Trevor Milton]

Only it was probably a matter of like a period of over about a month. It was. It was. It actually went up high. It went up pretty high. Came back down, went back up. It was just kind of leveling there. And then when I was spacs all.

[Interviewer/Host]

It was a spac.

[Trevor Milton]

It was a spac. And it was a wild ride sorrow.

[Interviewer/Host]

You know what one of my mentors told me? He said his name's Alan Nation. He's not super well known, but the wisest guy I think I ever met in my life. He's like a little bit like a Charlie Munger, Warren Buffett. He said the average entrepreneur, if they knew what they were getting themselves into, would have never started the business. That the good entrepreneurs are a little bit delusional. You've built six companies, right? Six companies. One of, you know, multi billion dollar more than multi billion. 30 billion plus is very rare that anyone ever builds. If you knew everything was going to happen over the last 10 or 11 years, do you think you would have start still said, I'm going to do it anyway?

[Trevor Milton]

Oh, gosh. That's probably one of the best questions I've ever been asked, to be honest with you. I don't know.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

I don't know. Because the, the reward of it has been greater than anything you could ever dream of in your life.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

The pain and what I had to go through and with my family, what happened with them.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

I, I would only say no, not for myself. I would only say no because of what it did to my family.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

So, yeah, they must have gone through because you got a conviction. Four years. But it was suspended. You didn't have to go to prison.

[Trevor Milton]

I didn't. Luckily, I did not have to go. It was, it was suspended. It was on appeal. And we were about ready to have the appeal. The government filed a motion. Crazy. To like, see $600 million in my assets, take everything I have, put me in prison, off I go.

[Interviewer/Host]

So they seize your assets.

[Trevor Milton]

They were ready to. They're about ready to, yeah. And then that was the day I got the wild call from Donald Trump. I mean, it was just, you can't make this up. It's like I thought there was no hope left. I thought I was done for.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

You know, because the system so rigged. I mean, we'll talk about it, say. But yes, it is impossible, impossible to get a fair trial in New York. You're done. And so it doesn't matter who you are and how much money you have, you will be convicted 100% of the time.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

And that's not how America should be.

[Tai Lopez]

Right.

[Trevor Milton]

So I'll go into that, because criminal reform to me now is going to be one of my main focuses for the next 10 years.

[Tai Lopez]

Okay.

[Trevor Milton]

Besides my business life. But, like, that's what I'm going to focus on, is reforming this criminal system. Because we only have a few years right now, why Trump is in office, to actually get it done. If we don't get it done, it'll never get done in history.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

I mean, to me, I always. Because I live part time in the US And I live part time in Europe, and. And I have a farm. And I tell people, the best of America is the entrepreneurial spirit. The best of America, it's one of the most beautiful countries. Like, my farms are in a very beautiful place. The raw land of America is very beautiful. And the entrepreneurship. But the worst of America is the food system, the education system, and the criminal justice. My dad, I was born. I don't remember because I was, you know, just born. But my dad went to prison for seven years from New York, and that's why I was born in Los Angeles. He was on an island called Terminal Island. I was born in Long beach, and so, you know, I got to see a little bit of that. His was for selling cocaine. But, you know, you look at the American criminal justice system, and you have both extremes. People that shouldn't. That didn't do anything wrong. Getting caught up in this system, that takes a decade to get yourself out of this. And then you have the other extreme, people who on camera shot somebody or stab somebody, and then they walk free. So it's like, you know, pick a lane. Either we're gonna be really easy on everybody, then be easy on everybody.

[Tai Lopez]

But.

[Interviewer/Host]

So what do you. What do you think? Because we were talking about this earlier, is like, it's not a conspiracy theory until it happens. It's a conspiracy theory till it happens to you. And so did you believe in this kind of deep state before this?

[Trevor Milton]

Look, man, you're gonna laugh at this, but I'm now looking at, like, underground parts of Pyram. Like, my mind has gone to the not complete extreme, but my mind now questions everything. So I'm like, whatever I'm told, I just say I honestly only believe about 15% of it.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

And the other 85, I don't.

[Tai Lopez]

Yes.

[Trevor Milton]

And so I've. I've gone. Because I've seen it. I've seen literally what the government can do and how they can lie. So we haven't even got into this. But this is a really interesting thing. The main. I was convicted. So first of all, I was dragged 2,000 miles away from my house on purpose. They wouldn't try me in Utah. They wouldn't try me in Arizona. Why? Because the. Or. Or Wyoming, they knew I would be free.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

That. First of all, they would never take it. And as a matter of fact, so.

[Interviewer/Host]

They didn't have a good enough basis in most states to even.

[Trevor Milton]

Well, the judges down. The judges and the. And the. And the people that live there won't stand for it for most of the part. So actually, in Arizona, the feds down there actually looked into it to see if it was fake. Showed up, went out for drives in the car, in the trucks, walked away and said, everything's fine. It's not a fake fraud.

[Interviewer/Host]

So the accusation. Because one of the accusations was you demonstrated a vehicle and it was fought you.

[Trevor Milton]

You.

[Interviewer/Host]

You embellished or something.

[Trevor Milton]

Like it's like rolling down a hill.

[Interviewer/Host]

That was like rolling down a hill. But you're saying in Arizona they tested it and found. No.

[Trevor Milton]

So, yeah, I'll get into that. It was actually a huge lie sold in conjunction. I didn't know this. The short sellers which commit criminal activity.

[Tai Lopez]

Yes.

[Trevor Milton]

We're working hand in hand with the prosecutors.

[Tai Lopez]

Oh, wow.

[Trevor Milton]

So these guys were committing fraud and the prosecutors were protecting them.

[Tai Lopez]

Yes.

[Trevor Milton]

And this is what I learned.

[Interviewer/Host]

They were making money on the stock.

[Trevor Milton]

Market as your tens of millions.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

As they destroy. And the prosecutors would look the other way and not care about the crimes these guys commit and not even ask questions. Not care. They were. They were paying people for false information, gaining inside information, trading on that, which is security fraud. You would go to prison normally for 10 to 20 years. The prosecutors literally gave him a get out of jail permanently free card as long as they continually brought him these dossiers. So my short seller didn't just hit me. They hit Carvana, they hit the Adani Group, they hit Carl Icahn. They hit. I mean, he was going after everybody. I'm surprised. It was no wonder why he closed up his shop. He's gone. He ran away. Because he went after everybody. He took me down. He didn't take anyone else down. I was the one that he got.

[Interviewer/Host]

So basically, for people watching that don't quite understand the stock market, you can either buy stocks to hold them in a long position, or if you bet against them, you can buy short, which essentially, if the stock goes down, you get rich. So there was a guy out there that wanted Nikola Corp to go down so he could make tens of millions of dollars and he would do anything he could, anything.

[Trevor Milton]

He literally, like through their network, they were promising girls millions of dollars to come and testify against me that I had. That I assaulted him. Like all. Think about it. From every avenue, every avenue hit through his network, these guys were actually talking to this. These guys that were involved doing this. They all coordinated from the attacks, from the. Or the short sale that they pulled against the company. The fake dossier that they created, the salacious dossier. They paid witnesses. The government's chief witness. Get this. Got paid like $700,000.

[Interviewer/Host]

Wow.

[Trevor Milton]

In profit. And then testified on the stand against me. How like this is mind blowing. How corrupt the justice system is. You can't have someone who is part of the short who becomes a government's chief witness who had only stepped into your facility one time in their life.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

And so what they did is they dragged me 2,000 miles away to a district where they have 100, almost 100% conviction rate.

[Interviewer/Host]

Was that the Southern Southern District?

[Trevor Milton]

Yeah. And nobody has a shot in the Southern District.

[Interviewer/Host]

That's where Donald Trump had.

[Trevor Milton]

Did he have his case, 34 convictions there.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

It doesn't matter who you are. You can be. You could be Mother Teresa and they would convict you of 30 counts.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

If the government asks for 30, they'll convict you on 28 and leave you on two. It's just the way. Because here's the way it is. Everyone on my jury was. Not everyone. Most all the people on my jury had been people that had no money, welfare taken from the. Were on government payments because people with businesses were like, I can't stay here for two months. Yeah, Yeah, I gotta run my business. So they're all excluded from the trial. So what are you left with? A bunch of people that are on government assistance. Not all, but most of them. And in my, in my trial, to give you an example of how bad it was, there was this girl. I think your last name's Lopez. So you're. You're Hispanic of nature, right?

[Interviewer/Host]

My dad.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

This is. This will really hit home to you. So imagine this girl on my trial who kind of took over as the most vocal voice and powerful voice.

[Tai Lopez]

Okay.

[Trevor Milton]

It was juror number six. This juror before trial tweeted something. She said, my New Year's resolution is to abolish the billionaire class.

[Tai Lopez]

Huh.

[Trevor Milton]

And over the years of her, of all of her social media, it was hating white guys, hating wealthy people, despising wealth, the inequality of wealth. Everything was about, you're rich and you deserve to have nothing.

[Tai Lopez]

Right.

[Interviewer/Host]

Eat the rich.

[Trevor Milton]

So imagine this. Imagine if, I imagine if someone was on a jury and this person on the jury, their resolution was to abolish the Hispanic race.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

And then they're on the jury of a young Hispanic kid.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah, exactly.

[Trevor Milton]

That's how disgusting this was. And the worst part that makes me mad is the judge didn't care. We found out about it after my trial because she was, like, bragging about it, and we found it in all these tweets. And she like, so she lied. And when in trial she says, I don't use social media. So we never found any of this. She lied to the judge, she lied to us. And this is how the New York guarantees convictions, because no misconduct is ever punished. They allow anyone to create misconduct as long as they get their conviction.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

Whereas Utah, Arizona, the judge would have thrown this out in one second and said, and. And probably ended up prosecuting the. The juror for committing perjury to him. So that's the difference is that people out here in the west coast would be held to a standard of like, you're not allowed to be prejudicial going into a trial.

[Tai Lopez]

Yes.

[Trevor Milton]

Or don't be on it. And in New York, they incentivize it. They, they look for those people. And that's that. That's why they have a 96, 98%, whatever it is, conviction. 94% conviction rate.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

It's a weird thing in America when you look, there's a charity that I contribute to called Innocence Project.

[Trevor Milton]

Yeah. I do that.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

They essentially get people off death row that have blatantly false cases, do the DNA tests. You know, 5, 10, 15 of people on death row are. The DNA is like, it's impossible. And one of the weird things, as I read those stories, is over and over across the United States, when U. S. Prosecutors got new information that told them that that person they're attacking is innocent, they don't stop the trial.

[Trevor Milton]

They don't care. And even if they do, there's one going on right now where the prosecutors felt so guilty, they literally said, I can't live with myself anymore.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

I framed this guy.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

And their guilt caught up to him. And then they asked the judge to dismiss it, and the judge wouldn't do it.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

So the system is so effing corrupt that it needs to be completely overhauled to strip the power away from these evil prosecutors and judges to where they don't have the ability to. There needs to be a group of people that were formerly wrongly accused that are in charge of the appeals, because then those people would be able to see this and say, this is wrong, because I was there. And that's what, you know, there's a lot of things that need to happen, but that's just like one of many things that need to happen in America to fix this system.

[Interviewer/Host]

So do you think Donald Trump, in these years, he has left, has the ability to come in and make some reform?

[Trevor Milton]

I think he does, because when he called me. We'll get into this in a minute about my pardon. When he called me on the phone, I actually told him, I said, Mr. President, if we don't fix this now and come up with some legislation, when you're gone, they're going to do it to you and your children, and they're going to come back after me and everybody else.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

And he says, I agree. And so I think that one of the things I need to do is I've talked about is I'm going to. I'm putting together a. Essentially a couple pager, and it outlines everything that needs to be passed in Congress so they can't overturn it and pass it into law for criminal reform. And what it would do is it would almost guarantee that no innocent people would be sent to prison.

[Tai Lopez]

Yes.

[Trevor Milton]

Because the prosecutors would actually have to work for it. I'll give you a. It's kind of premature because normally it's at the end, but this is kind of cool. I'll give you a couple examples. One would be, is if you charge someone with a crime, that person should be able to choose their venue.

[Tai Lopez]

Right.

[Trevor Milton]

Because the Constitution guarantees me a venue of my peers.

[Tai Lopez]

Right.

[Trevor Milton]

My peers are who I believe my peers should be. Because who's some judge in New York to say my peers aren't Arizona or Utah? That's where I live my whole life. I don't. I had only stepped foot in New York twice in my entire life.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah. Why was it even in you?

[Trevor Milton]

Because it can convict you. They said it was because it was New York Stock Exchange. But here's the problem. The servers aren't in New York. They're in New Jersey. It's the wrong district. So we brought that up and they're like, well, it doesn't really matter. It's like they don't care. They'll find any reason to convict you in New York. And so one thing needs to happen is the defendants need to be able to choose the venue. So this would stop prosecutors from trophy hunting, because if they indict you, they no longer get the credit for it. It goes to a different venue. That would stop probably 50% of all the indictments in America that are wrong.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

Then you have grand jury this trophy hunting. It's unfair that people like, for example, Elon Musk has had a run in with the sec. Yeah, he had a big one. And he says, I saw a recent article where Elon said, if I knew what I knew now, I would not have settled. He took a settle. He settled and had to pay a fine. Had to step down from being the, you know, board on the board of directors of Tesla. And it happened again. He's got a thing now and he just said, I'm not gonna. I saw the sec. He wouldn't come on the interviews. He's like, I'm done. You've asked me enough questions. And it's clearly a trophy hunting case. When really what you want for a Country. I understand. Look, I grew up without money. I understand why when you don't have money, you could hate the rich. I get it. And I'm around rich people. I live. This is Beverly Hills. There's a lot of rich dickhead people. You know, there's a lot of rich, but there's also poor, too.

[Trevor Milton]

Yeah, there's a lot of poor.

[Interviewer/Host]

There's good people and bad people in this world, and it's not. You're not going to build a prosperous country if people who take a risk and become well known are the targets. For somebody who wants to make a career out of saying, I took down this billionaire and this billionaire, you don't want to run the billionaires out.

[Trevor Milton]

And, you know, a lot of people said, why the prosecutors do this? Well, so I had three prosecutors. Jordan Estes, Nick Rus, and Matt Podolsky. Jordan Estes, as soon as they took me, as soon as they indicted me, she goes and takes a five to $10 million job, is how disgusting it is. So they take you as a trophy. They use you in the resume, and they go. They go interviews with these big law firms, and they go. They take. They get these massive jobs. So the people that they're taking down that they hate the rich people, they're like, they. All they do is blame you for being rich. And then they go and they just become rich themselves. This is how it's like. It's like, disgusting. It's like.

[Interviewer/Host]

It's just like Bernie Sanders, when he goes. Somebody brought up. They're like, when you weren't a millionaire, you didn't like millionaires once you became a millionaire. Then he upped it to, I don't like billionaires.

[Trevor Milton]

And then.

[Interviewer/Host]

And then, because he didn't want to dislike himself, and then somebody said, don't you have three homes? And he's like, yes, I have a home in D.C. and yes, I have. And then he's like, and yes, I have a small lake house. Like most people. I'm like, most people don't have a third home.

[Trevor Milton]

No.

[Interviewer/Host]

Like, growing up, I'm like, we didn't even have one home. We had a little apartment, so. Or a mobile home. I graduated high school living in a mobile home.

[Trevor Milton]

What.

[Interviewer/Host]

What was the core. You said, these three prosecutors, what was the core accusation? And what's kind of your summary of why they were wrong?

[Trevor Milton]

So I think the main thing is, is that, like, one, the short sellers sold this huge lie that the truck was rolled downhill. And that was what. That was a lie. What the government alleged I did is they alleged that I made misstatements. So this is one reason why I got pardoned from Trump. Trump came in and said there was not a dollar missing. There was no documents destroyed. There was no filings incorrect with the sec. The government admitted all that. None. So what did the government do? They indicted me for speech. Now, that's a dangerous area to go to. That's what's happened around the world right now. And they were trying to. I believe it was the Biden administration that was trying to extend the power of prosecutors to indict people for speech they didn't believe with, especially on social media. So I was the poster boy for because I supported Trump and because they could use my case to further their re. Overreach of indicting anyone based upon things they don't agree with.

[Tai Lopez]

Yes.

[Trevor Milton]

So there was not a dollar missing. This. When everyone's like, oh, Trevor's a fraud. Be like, okay, that's a. Just a. That's an opinion of someone who's ill educated. Yeah, you're just dumb. I'm sorry, but you're just ill educated and you don't even want to know the truth if you go through it. Not $1 was ever missing, not $1 was misappropriated, not one document was ever modified or destroyed. And every document we ever submitted to the sec, they agreed that we're correct. So that's what normally fraud would be. Yes, that's what Bernie Madoff, all these other people do. They would falsify documents, hide money, take money. Nothing happened. They came after me because I used the present tense of a verb. So the entire thing was I would speak in the present tense. Why did I do that? Well, because we were a pre revenue company.

[Tai Lopez]

Right.

[Trevor Milton]

So we went public as a pre revenue company. Everybody knew we were pre revenue. Which means I was referring to what I'm doing right now to accomplish the point to where we will become revenue generating. So I would go on a podcast and I'd say, yeah, we're making hydrogen at $4 a kilogram. Da, da, da, da, da. But then I'd qualify at the beginning saying, we're talking about our business plan.

[Tai Lopez]

Yes.

[Trevor Milton]

What would happen at trial is the government would cut that out, not introduce it, and the judge wouldn't allow it in. And then they would take this snippet and they would say, we're making hydrogen at $4 a kilogram. And they would call up a person on the stand and an employee and say, is this true or not? Well, in that context, no. It's not true. Okay, thank you. And then they would shut them up and chew them off the stand.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

So they wouldn't allow the person to actually. I couldn't show the whole context. I wasn't allowed. I would bring evidence to the judge and the judge would say, it's not coming in. And I'm like, it shows my innocence. No, not coming in. 99% of the evidence that showed I was innocent, the judge refused to let in.

[Interviewer/Host]

Why, what do you. What's the judges. What did you feel like they had against you?

[Trevor Milton]

I don't actually, I don't really blame the judge because I think he's just a product of his environment. I think he actually has a big heart. My judge was Judge Ramos. I think the guy actually has a pretty good heart. I think his brother actually is in prison, which is crazy. But what he doesn't understand is that. That the prosecutors today are not like the prosecutors that they were 20 years ago where you could trust them.

[Tai Lopez]

Yes.

[Trevor Milton]

Today they're trophy hunting and they don't.

[Interviewer/Host]

To become lawyers at big firms.

[Trevor Milton]

To become lawyers at big firms.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

To become the wealthy people that they despise in trial. So what happens is, is the judge, because he came from a. He came from the same office, Eastern, he was a former prosecutor. So it's like, you know, you know, like they call it professional courtesy. It's like cops let cops off their friend. Like if you're a copy, they hook you up, like, because you're a cop. It's the same thing. A judge was a former prosecutor. So he lets the prosecutors literally have whatever they want as a. As a professional courtesy. And that's the problem. And out in west, they don't do that. Not some judges do, but a lot of judges out west will not do that. A prime example is a prosecutor was found to have lied to the judge in Utah, just barely. The judge sanctioned the government and the entire security exchange office in Utah shut down over this. Because a prosecutor lied to the judge once. They lied to the judge in my trial hundreds of times. And the judge didn't even care. So in my. Here's a great example of how insane this is. The judge or the prosecutor said in trial that my trucks were all fake, which is the common belief in the like.

[Tai Lopez]

Right.

[Trevor Milton]

If you look around online, it's all, trevor's a fraud. The trucks were fake. Okay. It's an illiterate once again comment because it's actually not true at all. The trucks were always real and they always have been. And we are the first to market to production even before Tesla. Yeah, that's a hell of a feat to accomplish.

[Interviewer/Host]

You're saying it's totally wrong. These were trucks, and they. You didn't make this up.

[Trevor Milton]

And guess what? I asked the judge, your honor, I want to show the jury the trucks. And what did he say? No.

[Tai Lopez]

Huh? Why?

[Trevor Milton]

So, Your honor, they are. They're telling me that these trucks. They're telling the jury that these trucks are fake, yet you won't let me show them. He says you can show them in photos, but the government's alleging that the photos and everything are fake. So essentially what they're doing is they're undermining the ability to have fair evidence introduced to trial. Yeah, so.

[Interviewer/Host]

So you wanted to show a video.

[Trevor Milton]

I wanted to show the damn truck out in front of the courthouse.

[Interviewer/Host]

Okay.

[Trevor Milton]

Or take them to a warehouse and let them walk around like they did with O.J. simpler, you know, where they walked around the house, like, whatever. They do field tours all the time. When they do. Like when they do a. Sometimes they'll. If. If a crime happens in a certain location, they'll bring the jury there to be able to understand what the location. The judge wouldn't let me do that. I'm like, your honor, just let the jury see the trucks. Nope. I'm like, they're saying the trucks are fake. Well, you can. You can just tell the jury they're not fake. I'm like, yeah, but they're alleging that what I say is fake. So my word now has been diminished because I've been indicted, which now you've. You've removed my ability to have a fair trial, and you've robbed me of my constitutional rights.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

And the problem is the judge doesn't see it that way. They see it like, well, the government has the right to allege whatever they want, and it's up to the jury to decide. Right. But if you. If you prevent the evidence from coming in the jury.

[Interviewer/Host]

Right. Then they don't have enough information.

[Trevor Milton]

They don't have enough information, then you're automatically guilty, which is what happens in New York. And this is why it's such a disaster.

[Interviewer/Host]

And so you feel like government overreach, looking back, because recently the company just went into bankruptcy. You think it was essentially a good company that would have helped the world, that would have had, you know, these sustainable trucks, and it was driven into the ground by big government.

[Trevor Milton]

By the government. And then they blame me for them driving it into the ground.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

The worst part is, is they Caused thousands of investors massive amounts of losses. Not me, the government.

[Tai Lopez]

Yes.

[Trevor Milton]

And they lied to the public. So there's a video, you know, we have, we actually have a documentary coming out. We're going to talk about that in a little bit. It's about ready to be released. But there's a video where the U.S. attorney in the Southern District is literally pointing to the truck telling the people that it was a fake truck and never real. That's a blatant lie. Where is. If she was an executive in a company, she would be indicted for fraud. So the question is, why does the same principle not apply to the prosecutors for misleading the public markets, destroying shareholder value.

[Tai Lopez]

Right.

[Trevor Milton]

But they hold me against it with a comment that was taken out of context.

[Interviewer/Host]

So you're essentially saying, because this is kind of like Elon Musk had this thing where he said whatever for funding is secured or something like that, which he says it actually was. And they went after him for that. You're saying, you, Elon Musk, you're held to this crazy high standard of every word you say has to be unambiguously perfect. But the prosecutor can just be like a machine gun kind of just saying.

[Trevor Milton]

Whatever they want and spew knowing lies. So the crazy thing is the prosecutors knew these trucks were real.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

They refused to ever even come look at them. So they indicted me without even looking at them. It's crazy.

[Interviewer/Host]

If the motive in this case, without ever driving in them, the motives is money though. Is that what you feel like? The prosecutors know, they convict you. It's a big case. It's on the front of the Wall street journal. They're making 150 grand or 100 grand at the government's attorney. You know, the southern districts.

[Trevor Milton]

Yep.

[Interviewer/Host]

They know they can go work for a big firm and instantly they go to work.

[Trevor Milton]

Scadden, Pillsbury, whatever. And they get an eight million dollar a year job.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

And this is the corruption. What ought to happen is there needs to be a rule that says if you're a former prosecutor, you can't work in the private sector for first.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

Four years or whatever. Like go. I mean when I'm saying that into, as an attorney on that level, like go do something else.

[Tai Lopez]

Yes.

[Trevor Milton]

To where there's enough time where you can't use that as leverage to gain a better salary. Because if you're incentivizing prosecutors to take down innocent people so they can get a better job, they'll do it all day long.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

And that's what they're doing. They're, they're more fraudulent than the people they put in prison. Most of the time.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

Charlie Munger says, beware of perverse incentives.

[Trevor Milton]

There you go.

[Interviewer/Host]

And you know the way to build a business is fix the incentives. Warren Buffett goes in, he buys a company, he says to the CEO that was making $50 million a year, even if the company's losing money, he's like, you make 100k salary, but if you turn this thing around, you make a lot of money. So he switches from perverse incentives to correct well aligned incentives. And so really this is just another one. A case where it's the same with. I saw that recently, Doge and Elon and Donald Trump have been wanting to move. You can't take welfare money and buy sugary soda.

[Trevor Milton]

I know, okay.

[Interviewer/Host]

Which to me seems like common sense. It's amazing that people were actually opposed to that. But I saw a report where Coca Cola and big soda companies, it's a massive part of their annual profit monster. So they were in there testifying how bad it would be for poor people if they couldn't use their welfare EBT or whatever, snap money to buy soda. When the truth is beware of perverse incentives, they. That's a massive part of their profit. They don't care about the poor people.

[Trevor Milton]

No.

[Interviewer/Host]

You know.

[Trevor Milton]

No.

[Interviewer/Host]

So it's just, that's why I said the food system, the criminal justice.

[Trevor Milton]

So let's talk about the reason why I love RFK so much.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

He's like literally like one of my heroes. The guy is, he stands for so much. Like there's, you know, you'll always find something that someone doesn't, you know, align with you on majority of what? Like the whole health thing. Getting rid of all these chemicals, the forever chemicals, the stuff that's killing us. This, the aspartame that you go down the list. Like, there's so many things in our food that is killing us. Our flour, gmo, our modified food. It's no wonder why every single American is chronically ill now.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

And, oh, I can't say every American. Most Americans are chronically ill now.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

And it's.

[Interviewer/Host]

80 of Americans are overweight or obese.

[Trevor Milton]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

That's a crazy number eight.

[Trevor Milton]

And it's not because how much food they eat. It's because of the food of food that they do eat. It's the qua. It's the type of food that the quality, like the fake. I mean, look, our drinks are 60 grams of sugar for a small drink. Kids are literally Hooked on sugar at the time, they're 1 years old, because that's what sells a. A fruit. Fruit drink.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

You know, then you have aspartame in there because they're trying to get. And that severs your brain cells and everything else. It's like one of the worst things in the world. You go down the list, and there's like, all these dyes that kill people. Like, the dyes are so incredibly toxic to the body.

[Tai Lopez]

Yep.

[Trevor Milton]

And this is why I love rfk, because the guy's going in there saying, I'm done with this crap. Yeah, we're gonna fix it.

[Interviewer/Host]

So let's. Let's fast. Let's rewind. I should say, not fast forward to the darkest day. What. Do you remember the date? Do you remember the year? What happened where you were like, this is the lowest I ever got in the last 10 years.

[Trevor Milton]

The lowest I ever had in my entire life was. That was the moment the jury convicted me.

[Interviewer/Host]

What year was that? That was 20.

[Trevor Milton]

2022, I think it was. So.

[Interviewer/Host]

And you're sitting there and they come back. What was the. What was the vote?

[Trevor Milton]

So they acquitted me on one count. They convicted me on three. The worst part was, is the entire trial, the jury would never look at me.

[Tai Lopez]

Really?

[Trevor Milton]

No, they hated me. I was a white rich person. And they. The prosecutors used that. They told the. They literally told the jury that I was a guy who lived. Who had a ranch bigger than Manhattan, and that, like, I was the scum of the earth and I was a bank. He. The jury told the. I'm sorry. The prosecutors told the jury that I was a bank robber. This is how up it is. I'm sorry for the language. You screwed up.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

He actually. They actually said, then he point the gun at your face, and he's taking the money out of the bank, and it's up to you to stop him. That is prosecutorial misconduct to a T. Right. You're not allowed to allege a crime of so. And in stoke that kind of violence, we objected, moved for. For a. For a whole new trial, and the judge didn't even care.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

And this is the. They will do anything to win.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

And so the moment. The worst moment for me in my life was when I got convicted because I. I looked at the jury and I said, you know, if God does exist, I'll tell you what. The pain and destruction you just did by throwing and ruining an innocent person's life and giving the government more power to destroy more innocent lives, you're going to Pay more than I ever will.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

And what is going to destroy me is going to destroy you a hundred times more because you got to fix the damage that you just did. And they wouldn't. They wouldn't look at me through trial. They wouldn't look at me during the conviction. They walked right out and then they bragged about it. It's just disgusting. Disgusting human beings. There's only one or two people on that jury that I thought were actually good people. And they voiced their displeasure with how it went down.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

And they have. You know, they're the only ones, I think, that even had any type of ability to like that I think were like good people. The rest of them, I think are just very.

[Interviewer/Host]

Which account did they throw out or was. Or you found not good?

[Trevor Milton]

It was actually the hardest count to find me guilty on. Who's count two. So that's why we knew something was wrong. Because they. They the heart. The. I'm sorry. The easiest count to find me guilty on.

[Tai Lopez]

Okay.

[Trevor Milton]

They let me off on the easiest count and they found me guilty on the most impossible counts. So the way it worked is. And the reason why I'll make it easy because people don't care about the details. The judge told the jury they could convict me without intent.

[Interviewer/Host]

Okay.

[Trevor Milton]

That's wrong. Jury instructions. Because.

[Tai Lopez]

Right.

[Trevor Milton]

Intent is the foundation of a crime. That's the difference from you back in your car up and running someone over and not realizing it. Right. Kill them. That's an accident.

[Tai Lopez]

Right.

[Trevor Milton]

There was damage. There's an accident. And you don't deserve to go to prison for the rest of your life if it was an accident. Compared to someone who mows someone down in a. In a big plaza with a minivan and they mow tent. You know, they mow people.

[Interviewer/Host]

Terrorists.

[Trevor Milton]

That's intent.

[Interviewer/Host]

Religious reason.

[Trevor Milton]

That's the difference between intent and not intent. For the, for the viewers to just understand, like this is what the difference is. So the judge told the jury that they did not need to find intent to convict me. We objected. We told the judge it was outrageous. We moved for a mistrial. And the judge still didn't care.

[Interviewer/Host]

I wonder what the rationale was. I mean, they were just. This Southern District wanted to keep up.

[Trevor Milton]

Their reputation for it's guaranteed convictions and the judge just doesn't. They. They have un. They have unlimited control. There's no checks and balances in the Southern District. None. No judge has the guts to ever tell a prosecutor he's wrong in the Southern District. It's disgusting. Like, you Come out to the most other districts, even the ninth year, they'll rail on prosecutors.

[Interviewer/Host]

They're like, this is how California compare.

[Trevor Milton]

To nowhere near New York is bad.

[Interviewer/Host]

Really.

[Trevor Milton]

Now, it's. It's still tough because it's a very. It's kind of weird. The. The liberal side of. Of criminal justice typically is very lenient on crime.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

But they're very, very aggressive towards, well, like, wealth. White, right.

[Interviewer/Host]

White collar.

[Trevor Milton]

White collar. Because they hate. They hate the white. The white people have made money. Which I'm actually gonna laugh about this because what. What the judge didn't know and the prosecutors didn't know is I'm not even white. My grandmother was pure Cherokee Indian, so I come quarter Cherokee. My mom was half Cherokee. My grandmother's pure Cherokee.

[Tai Lopez]

Right.

[Interviewer/Host]

So you're a true native.

[Trevor Milton]

I'm a true native. My family was dragged out of the East Coast.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

My. My relatives dragged on the Trail of Tears, murdered and raped along the way. Shoved onto a reservation. They stole all their land, all their money, their goal, everything that they had. Stole everything from them. All their property rights, everything. All their food. Right. Like, everything. Their ability to hunt. All of it. Gone. They were putting this little tiny shithole of areas, sometimes not all, but really bad areas. And the government said, stay there and you don't get any rights.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

So the government's already destroyed my ancestors, and now they come to destroy me again. And what the prosecutors didn't even know is they were. They were literally destroying the very thing they were trying to push, which is social reform.

[Tai Lopez]

Right.

[Trevor Milton]

So they hate the white person even though most of them were white.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

They hate the wealthy, even though they all want to be wealthy.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

And little did they know that I wasn't even white.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

I mean, I'm part white. I'm proud of it. But I'm also proud of my heritage.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

So it's just a very frustrating thing because the whole thing's a scam.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

And. And you ever.

[Interviewer/Host]

Did you ever think. Or even now, do you ever think that America's past reform and I'm just gonna leave? Did you ever think of going to. We talked about Brazil. We talked about, you know, do you ever just go, you know what? I don't want to live in a place that there's a chance this could ever happen to me again?

[Trevor Milton]

No. Because I think that America is still the only hope the world has right now for true freedom. There are some countries that are pretty free, but that have freedom. But America really was built on a complete foundation of freedom. So I'm going to stick around as long as I can until it's completely. Until there's no hope left and the things done.

[Interviewer/Host]

And you think Trump was good for.

[Trevor Milton]

The country if he would not have won? Yeah, and I got a lot of crap for that because I actually donated to Trump. I donated a lot of the. And I've never talked politically about my past in my life. So if you go on all my social media, my whole history, there's not an ounce of political commentary for me ever, until. Right. I got this pardon, and then it got brought up into the picture and everyone wanted to ask, so. But I. I've donated to The Trump, the PACs and everything else, and I've donated to other senators. I donated to Trump since 2015, when he came down the escalator or 2016. That was when he first announced to run for the right. So I've been a long time supporter of him, mainly because of the Apprentice. I loved it.

[Tai Lopez]

Okay.

[Trevor Milton]

And so I was like, dude, this dude does the Apprentice. This guy's a total, you know, badass. I don't know if I can swear on your podcast.

[Tai Lopez]

Go ahead.

[Trevor Milton]

Yeah, yeah, but he was such a. Just a. Almost like, just like a badass. Right? And then he goes and he gets shot and like a gangster gets up bleeding. And I'm like, this guy, yes. Is like, I can relate with him. And he gets indicted, he gets dragged through the courts, he gets convicted. And I'm like, this is a guy I can relate with. And when I, When I was, I was donating over a period of a while to all types of senators and other people that I wanted to have some balance in the, in the system. But if he wouldn't have won, I think we would. I think our country would have four years. It would have completely collapsed.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

So it was. That's a recent thing. Controversy is, hey, this guy, you know, donated to Trump and then got a pardon. But what you're saying, the truth is you first donated long before this ever happened and.

[Trevor Milton]

Exactly. And Trump was very clear about it in his press release. Like, he actually, he was up in the White House in the Oval Office taking questions from. From journalists, and it was really cool. A journalist actually said, Mr. President, why did you pardon Trevor Milton? And his response was epic. So hopefully you can show it, right?

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah, yeah, we can pop it up.

[Trevor Milton]

I'll have you pull it up. It was epic. It's on my Instagram. You can, you can show it. It's a little cut of it. And he essentially is like, listen, these guys are evil, vicious people. They destroyed five years of his life.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

And he did nothing wrong. And the only thing he did wrong is he supported me from day one.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

And it's very true because, like, there was a coordinated effort for the government to take down everybody that was wealthy around Trump that had any type of power. They went after his attorneys.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

They went after his banks. They went after his business partners in a way that we've never seen. And I don't care what side of the aisle you're on, that crap can't happen in America.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

And if he wouldn't have been. If he wouldn't have. If he wouldn't have won the election, my personal opinion is I, I believe that America would have been done in four years. When I say done in four years, that means it would have been a single party state.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

At that point, they would have tilted the scale so bad and made the laws so impossible to win as a Republican that it would have forever been a Democratic, all 50 states, and it would be over. And at that point, you have no country anymore and you turn into, like, some of these countries in Europe where they're being overrun by everybody else and there's no more. There's no DNA to the country left.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

So the. We talked about the worst day when you got your conviction. What was the day you were the richest and how did you feel? Not that money is your only driver, but people are always curious because you've made more money in your life than, you know, 99% of people. What was the day where you're like, I'm the richest I've ever been?

[Trevor Milton]

I remember the. So this is the interesting thing about me. If, you know, people have always said, you get the people that love you and hate you online. You see this a lot. The people that love me are very. They're like, he's the most open person you'll ever meet. Like, anyone can ask me anything and I'll tell them my true feelings so I don't hold anything back.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

People that hate me are like, you know, all they say is, like, they just hurl insults at you. Right. That I'm going to get into my mind for people to understand where it is. My sole desire in life has always been this way. Since I was a kid. It was always to solve problems. I love solving problems. And from the time I was a child, everything I did was to solve a problem.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

I loved solving problems. I love solving problems for society. That's where Nikola came in because the pollution, the emissions were so nasty. Even though I was more on the conservative side, I was very, very concerned about, like, the air quality. I think it's disgusting and we need to fix it. And that's something we can do without bankrupting our country. It's a very simple thing we can do. And so I believe in balanced budgets, but I believe in clean air, so let's do both. And my goal was, is that I wanted to clean diesel trucks pollute more than I think it's like they're equivalent to eight plus gas guzzling vehicles or whatever. And I drive gas cars, so I also drive electric vehicles. I'm not like. But what my point is is these diesels, you just see them, they're spewing out black smoke and they're. What? If you look at a city when it's all nasty, it's mostly from the heavy duty vehicles.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

So I wanted to really, I wanted to change that, and it was my desire to. To change problems that society sees or has. And so the richest time in my life was when the stock hit essentially 90. And I think. I don't know where I was maybe seven and a half billion or something at that time.

[Interviewer/Host]

And Mark Cuban told me he just watched his net worth go up. And he's like, whoa, did you kind of watch the ticker? And it's like, I'm worth. You said it's up to 7 billion.

[Trevor Milton]

I think it was at one time that was at the peak. Right. Nowhere near that today. I mean, it's not even in that club anymore. And that's okay. I don't. The. But in that moment, like in those moments of watching what was going on with the, with the stock, I. It was so volatile, it was hard to even watch. I just kind of. It's like, I can't handle it.

[Interviewer/Host]

But you were 7 billion one day.

[Trevor Milton]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

$7.

[Trevor Milton]

Yeah. He was like, this is way too wild.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

But the thing for me was I was like, oh, my gosh, think about how many problems I'm going to be able to fix. It was never about the money. I wasn't like, oh, I'm gonna, you know, I want to be the richest man in the world is what I want to do.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

Anyone who knows me knows I've spent my whole life given everything I have away. So what people don't know. And this is really cool because this something you'll never hear from the people online. I gave 70% of my company away to my employees before we went public. 70%. Don't call me a scam artist or an asshole until you go build a company and you give 70% of what you have built away to other people, which many of them didn't even appreciate it. Yeah, 70% I gave away over. Over 7, probably over $10 billion worth of value I gave away to other people.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

And so it's like, that's the thing is my desire has always been to help other people, not need me.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

And I'm a proof of it. I gave it away before we went public. So no one can ever say that, like, somehow I was some greedy prick. Like, I wanted to see my employees well off. I wanted to see them have retirements. I wanted to see them own their homes outright. And I'm a problem solver and my wife hates it, you know.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

Because she's like, brings me a problem and she's like, but I don't want you to fix it. I just want you to listen.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

And I'm like, but I want to fix it.

[Interviewer/Host]

You're like, I'm a man. We want to fix when. So going back to this, you know, you go from rag. You told me you grew up poor, you know, milking cows to make a little extra money. You're worth 7 billion, you know, Then you have this huge drop where you're convicted on a, you know, criminal indictment. Four years. Then the role. I mean, for sure, your life. You should write a book called Roller Coaster, because it's really been a roller coaster. And it's like. And then boom. And what would you name your. If you had to come up with one word for your autobiography or one phrase, what would it be?

[Trevor Milton]

Controlled Chaos.

[Interviewer/Host]

Control. There you go. It's kind of like a roll. That's actually the definition of a roller coaster. Controlled chaos. Trying to make you feel like. But, you know, like Nietzsche, the philosopher said, what doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Now, I have not to be so bold as to disagree with Nietzsche, one of the great thinkers of all time, but I actually think you should add. I think it should say, what doesn't kill you can make you stronger. Because there's some people who have a nervous breakdown. I mean, Air, the Bed, Bath and Beyond cfo, it was going into bankruptcy. Just jumped out of the window.

[Trevor Milton]

I was there in New York when it happened. I was during my indictment. It was during my trial.

[Interviewer/Host]

Did you ever have any of those thoughts?

[Trevor Milton]

I had very severe depression through some of it. And I've never had depression in my life. Like, anyone who knows Me, I'm the happiest bubbly guy in the world, and I can handle almost anything until the government comes, comes after your family, just tries to destroy you, takes every asset you have, lies about you, destroys your name, destroys your relationships, cancels you with banks, cancels you with credit card companies, cancels you with every single program you own in your life. You have no. You have no way of doing. They essentially take all your freedoms away from you, your ability to travel, your requirement to report to people. For every single thing you do, everywhere you're going to go, they strip you of every single thing that they know that can drive you to the point of killing yourself. And this is what they hope you do. The government actually hopes these prosecutors want you to kill yourself. Because then they win. They win. And they say, see, I told you so. He's so guilty and killed himself. And that's what they did. That cfo, I don't know if he was guilty. I don't even know anything about it. But I can tell you it was because of what the prosecutors did to him or. Or in that situation, because of the bankruptcy, that. In his situation, where I know people that have actually killed themselves because of prosecutors, but in this situation, it was the destruction of his name, it was the fear, it was the loss of everything he had. And that drives people to think those thoughts. And I've never been susceptible to those thoughts in my life until I went through this and I realized the struggle I had to have every day just to make sure my mind was strong enough not to go there. And the answer is, for anyone who ever goes through anything like this, the answer is this. You want to. What I call. You want to flatline everything in your life.

[Tai Lopez]

Okay?

[Trevor Milton]

Flatline it. And that means this. The heartbeat does what? Goes up and down, right? A flat line means that you are, during your period of the most hell you're going to go through in your life, you are no longer allowed to have emotion.

[Tai Lopez]

Right.

[Trevor Milton]

You're no longer allowed to have happiness. You're no longer allowed to have sadness. The reason why with happiness comes sadness. With sadness comes happiness. The ups and downs are what kills you. It's not the flat line. Yeah, if you can keep the flat line. And I had to learn to do this. I would get calls sometimes five, six times a day, and attorneys would call me and say, trevor, I'm so. I. Dude, I. I don't even want to call you, man. I'm so sorry. And I'm like, what's up, man? And they're like, so the government just moved to seize this asset of yours. Or the government just did this. Or, or by the way, the government just, just, you know, is now opening up and, you know, something into someone, you know, just to harass you.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

Or whatever it is. And I'm like, it's like they're doing it to destroy your friends and your family. And so, like, they don't just come after you, they come after everyone in your circle. And my wife was on her deathbed, and we'll get into that a little bit. The reason why I actually stepped away from the company is not what the short sellers told everyone. It was because my wife was a day or two away from dying at the time. And the doctor, she went in for a procedure and the doctor put the wrong person's blood, blood plasma, indoor.

[Tai Lopez]

Oh.

[Trevor Milton]

Grab the wrong bag, put it into her. And it. She went from a healthy young woman, like most girls with little tiny things that she was working on trying to get better, to all of a sudden, diabetes, instantly type 1, Hashimoto's last. From somebody who was sick, who was extremely sick. So they injected her with someone who had insanely sick plasma. Very sick, like deathbed sick. And. And now she's stuck with those, with those things. And this doctor almost killed her. And I'm dealing with that as the short seller report comes out and as the government comes barreling down on me. And so if anyone would have honestly, like I've had friends and family tell me, they said, I was waiting for the day that we got the call that you were no longer here. Because I've never seen someone go through more hell than you have.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

And I know there are people that have been through their own hell, and it's. And it's relative to everyone's life, and their hell's just as bad as mine in their own way. But when you see when all this is going down and you're losing everything, the government's destroying you. The short sellers are, have made hundreds of millions. They've severed all your friendships. They turn the public markets against you. They turn your relationships against you. They turn your business partners against you, they turn your employees against you, to lie about you because they threatened to indict them too. And then your wife is dying and you lose everything you have. And you're sitting there and you're like, what's the purpose? Why? I mean, at this point, there's too much pressure. There's no way out. And I fought like a mother, effort to the very last second until they were days away from taking everything from me and throwing me in prison. And that's when I got a call from President Trump, and it was out of the blue. It was like. It was like, you know, people are Bible people or whatever, you know, religious at all. I mean, that's when, you know. You know, that's when essentially that he's standing next to the Red Sea, right? And all of a sudden, the Red Sea parts when Pharaoh is right coming up on him, and he. Imagine his thought process. I went through this desert. I went through all these years to, you know, to serve you. And you abandoned me and you ruined me. And here I am. Now I'm going to die on the sea, right? On the beaches.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

You know, you prick. I can see. I can literally see him saying that to God, you know, like, you're a jerk, right? Like, I'm going to die now, and all these people are going to die, too, and they're going to become slaves. And everything I work for is now ruined because you abandoned me. And the abandonment's a real feeling in life, and that's a hard one. I struggled with it. It was really hard.

[Interviewer/Host]

Were you. Were you mad at God?

[Trevor Milton]

100%, yeah. That. I've never been mad at God in my life until I went through this. And I. My mother died when I was young in cancer. I was 14 years old when my mom died of cancer. I was 20 years old. My Sony one, when my stepmom died of cancer. I watched my mom literally go from a healthy woman down to £60, where you could. And her images are in my documentary.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

You could pick her up with one hand.

[Tai Lopez]

Wow.

[Trevor Milton]

Her arms are this big, just the bone. And you would think that she was a mummy. This is mummified. She was this thin arms and just one or two veins, and then just, like, coughing up blood. He was like, the most traumatic thing you can imagine. I watched her die in our home. I was. Luckily, I didn't have to watch her take her very last breath. Thank God I didn't have to watch that. But I did see her just prior and. And it was like. It was the most traumatic thing I went through. And I. And I never got mad at God for that. And I never even thought once in my life, I'm upset at you for that. Because I knew that, like, she had to go through that for some reason. It wasn't fair. She'll be rewarded on the other side. Her name was loved by people. Whereas me, I said, I've spent my whole life serving People. I lived in Brazil. I went around teaching people. I did, like, a service mission down there. I've lived in different countries. I've helped people. I've given almost everything away. I have in my life. I've never cared about the money. And I'm like, I've served you for so long, and then you abandoned me, dude. Like, you, literally, you could have done anything. You could have just put one person on that jury without taking away people's free agency. You could have directed one good person. One. All I asked you for is one. And in my head, this is the wrong thinking, but in my head, I said, you know, you've asked me for a tithe, which is 10% of what I own, you know, throughout my life. And I've given that throughout my life to God in charity and other ways. I said, I will give 10% of everything I own, no matter what, minimum, to everyone around me to make sure that I give you 10% of. Because that was what was requested. I was a religious person. I believe that's what God asked. So I was like, I'm going to give that. And I said, if I gave you 10%, why couldn't you give me 10% back? One time, one jerk, one jerk, one honest person. Is that too much to ask for this world?

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

And that was the start of my anger towards God. It was a really hard thing. And I got really angry at God for a long, long time. And it wasn't until recently, honestly, that I've been able to let go of some of that.

[Interviewer/Host]

Do you feel like God sent Donald Trump? I see the assassination attempt, him barely missing this. And do you see. Do you see something divine in all that? Because at the end, he was the man who gave you the call. And when the President gives you a pardon, it's.

[Trevor Milton]

It's done.

[Interviewer/Host]

You're. Nobody can do anything.

[Trevor Milton]

Nobody can do anything. And I, I. There's a few things I think that. No, I think that the way I've come to terms with it, and it's been with help from my wife, too, as well, is I feel like God had to say. I had to break you completely. I had to just. I had to push you to the point where you hated me and you. You didn't trust me anymore because you would never really, truly like, appreciate me as a. You know, until you feel completely ruined.

[Tai Lopez]

Right.

[Trevor Milton]

And you had to know that I was not there. You had to know I abandoned you. And until you felt that abandonment, and it was something my mom felt, because my mom was Brought up in the foster care because my grandmother was a. Was a pure Cherokee Indian. Was not given. She was a very. She was hard on alcohol and drugs. She was ripped out of that family, given to foster parents where they did things to her you could never, ever imagine could be done to a young girl. And my mom had told me stories about the abandonment that she felt in her life and the pain that she had to go through as a young girl, why these people would do things to her. And I never understood what that was like until I felt like. Until I finally felt that from. From God.

[Tai Lopez]

Right.

[Trevor Milton]

And so I think there was, like, a little bit there where, like, I think somehow he was like, you needed to know what your mom went through.

[Tai Lopez]

Right.

[Trevor Milton]

And you needed to know what it was like to be abandoned, because I don't think you can truly. Like, I couldn't comprehend what he just did until I could understand that, like, I had to go to the lowest of the lows. So I'm still not there. I'm not healed all the way. Like, I'm really. I mean, it's weird because I've never talked about my feelings prior to this. Like, prior to this, this entire process. I was never, like, a feely person. I didn't talk about my feelings. But I still struggle today. It's only been a week and a half.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah, it's very recent.

[Trevor Milton]

Very recent. I mean, just barely happened.

[Interviewer/Host]

Is this the first podcast you've been on?

[Trevor Milton]

Yeah, first. I've. I've done some small interviews of. Of snippets for the media on certain things. And this is the first. Really the first. First platform where it's all gonna. It's, you know, it's. I'm laying everything out. I've gone. I've stopped into a few other ones that are taping for. Taping for coming up. But this was. This was something that I still struggle with a lot. And it was. And I'm still processing it, it's that the hate's still there a little bit.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

And I'm still trying to figure out how to get rid of it. And so the good news is, is I'm not a permanent hater. I can hurt and I can. I can be very resentful, but I don't permanently hold something.

[Tai Lopez]

Right.

[Trevor Milton]

So I believe that there's a lot of, like, ability for me to come back to him somehow.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

Through this. But I will tell you this. It was. It was. It was nothing short of a miracle in this life.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

Because it was days away from being Ripped away from my family. They had filed a motion to seize all my assets. They were ready to take everything away from me. And the appellate court was about ready to tell me to go to hell because they just, they don't, they don't care about defendants rights.

[Interviewer/Host]

So the appeal wasn't going to really help you.

[Trevor Milton]

It was an amazing appeal, but they don't care. In Southern District, they protect the government's convictions.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

All the way from the prosecutors to the judges to the appellate court. And until they stop doing that, they're going to burn our whole justice system. Now you know what's going to happen? America's going to. They don't understand what it's like to have a revolution. I've seen it in other countries. It only takes a little bit of distrust.

[Tai Lopez]

Right.

[Trevor Milton]

And people start mowing people down. Right. You know, like they don't understand that the damage they're doing is so permanent. They would rather make sure they guarantee convictions than they do to guarantee stability in a society.

[Tai Lopez]

Right.

[Trevor Milton]

That's the part that I hate the most about the judges in the appellate court is I feel sad for them because they're going to be the cause of the destruction of our country.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

Now, for people watching, you know, some practical takeaways from your experience. Like you said, flatlining your emotions when things get tough, just basically turning it off. I call it robot mode.

[Trevor Milton]

Okay.

[Interviewer/Host]

When life, when you're at your worst, you have to go on robot mode.

[Trevor Milton]

So you've been there too?

[Interviewer/Host]

Oh, I've been there, I've been there. And I had a. I remember about 10 years ago, I had a dinner with a guy and he supposedly has the fifth highest IQ in the world. So interesting guy, lives here in la. He's very. Become very wealthy too, but he's very, you know, intelligent. And I said to him, what is the thing that, you know, that most of the world doesn't, but they should? And he said, always be a seven. And I said, what do you mean always be a 7? He said, well, on a 1 to 10 scale of happiness, if you shoot up to a 10, there's nowhere you can go but down. And so you never want to, you don't want to be a 10 and then drop down to a 7 because it'll feel, even though you're still a 7, it'll feel like. So he's like, just stay a 7 and he goes, and you don't want to be a four because when you get overly depressed, you get paralyzed and actually things get worse. So he Said I'm a perpetual seven. I don't let like he's made hundreds of millions, if not billions of dollars. And he's like, I don't let myself get more than a seven of happiness. And if I lose a whole bunch of money, I don't let myself get lower than a seven. So as interesting, you kind of are corroborating your in your experiences.

[Trevor Milton]

I've never met you before, never met him, never even, Never once ever spoken to you until today, until I got invited on. It's amazing that so many people have had to come to that same realization mentally. What a special thing. Like, everyone had to go through their battle.

[Tai Lopez]

Yes.

[Trevor Milton]

I, I honestly thought it was something unique to what I went through. And now I'm hearing it's coming from you and him and others like, well, it actually makes me feel better about my situation, knowing I'm not crazy.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah, well, I tell people I, I, I've gone through different tough things. I had a hard childhood. You know, my dad was in prison. My mom's a single mom and then she got remarried to stepdad was a complicated, you know, not a good childhood and some good thing. I was healthy physically, but not mentally. But I think that what I've learned, I told you what this guy said about being a seven is that you can never experience heaven if you haven't been through hell on earth. So the one gift when life throws something tremendously hard at you is it will give you contrast so that for the rest of your life, you can actually experience heaven. Because now that you're pardoned, everything, like for the first time you can travel. When you go to Brazil, you're going to appreciate it more than the average tourist. So it's going to be like heaven on earth. You're like, oh, my God, I've seen that. And so the modern world, we expect everything to be so easy and good and nice and luxurious that we've lost contrast. And when you lose contrast, you lose all ability to experience heaven on earth. So I the only, I wouldn't wish hell on earth on anybody. But I am saying there is one consolation. You will be in possession of the greatest of all gifts, which is the ability to experience heaven on earth. You're gonna feel that now because you're like, I remember days so dark that I gave up on God. I gave up on almost life. And now this universe took. But it can also just give back. Donald Trump calls you. It's over.

[Trevor Milton]

Your pardon, dude is wild. So I'm sitting at the table with My wife literally just sitting there, and all of a sudden I get a call, and on my screen I have a screenshot, and it says, the executive office of the President.

[Interviewer/Host]

Is that what the caller ID is?

[Trevor Milton]

Caller ID says. I'm like, what the heck?

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

And at first I was like, okay, I need to be careful here, because what if it's someone messing with me? Like, what if it's AI and they're trying to get me to say something? Right. It happens a lot, actually. You gotta be really careful. And so I was like. And is this lady. And she's like, hey, there's so and so with the executive office of the President of the United States. Can you hold? The President would like to talk to you. Yeah, of course, 100%, I'm here. And let's pause there for a second. I'm going to rewind for like a month or so prior to that or whatever. My appellate attorney, Alexandra Shapiro, the most brilliant appellate attorney I've ever met in my entire life, ever. She's the Shohei Ohtani of baseball. She's the Michael Jordan of basketball. She's the LeBron James of basketball. She's. She's the Tiger woods of golf. Like the. The specimen of perfection and amazingness. That's her. And she recently won a 9 to 0 on the Supreme Court. That's like, I'm ruined. And then no one ever gets nine to zero. It's always a split somewhere.

[Tai Lopez]

Right.

[Trevor Milton]

She's the best that's ever, ever lived, in my opinion. And she. We knew that we had a very short window with Trump to get his attention, so we created this one page. One page. And this one page was the four, three or four fundamental flaws in my trial. The parts where they're so egregious, the President should pardon me. And it was the fact they drugged me 2,000 miles away to the wrong venue.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

It was the fact that the judge gave the wrong instructions. It was the fact that the jury, the juror, lied to the judge and us about, you know, wanting to destroy white, wealthy rich people. And the one I didn't talk to you about is the government's chief witness. Recently, we just found out, deleted up to 20,000 documents, lied about it to the judge, perjured himself and lied on the stand, and then sued me after trial.

[Tai Lopez]

Really?

[Trevor Milton]

After I just made him. I made him $4 million in two months or a couple months. And then he turned around and sued me because he wanted 15 more. And the government used him as their chief witness, and he destroyed evidence obstructed justice and perjured himself.

[Interviewer/Host]

And he was the government's chief witness.

[Trevor Milton]

He was a. He was part of the wire fraud count. So we found out, like, the way that went down is a judge in Utah, because he sued me, ordered a forensic examination on his devices, because we found stuff on his phone that was missing that was on his son's phone.

[Tai Lopez]

Ah.

[Trevor Milton]

And then the judge ordered an examination. We found all the documents he deleted and he tried to cover up, and they were all in the cloud, hidden away. And it was a disaster. I mean, turned into a monumental disaster for the government, for everything. They tried to explain it away and, oh, he didn't even mean to. It was all accidental and, you know, doesn't matter. So the. What ended up happening is we put all that on a single page and we sent it to the. To the White House counsel for. For the presidential pardons, which is what you do. And it just happened to get reviewed. And so I'm sitting there with my wife, I get this call, and all of a sudden it's Trump on the line. He's like, is this Trevor? And I said, yeah. And he's like, trevor, this is, you know, Donald J. Trump. President Trump. How are you doing? Well, I'm doing. I'm doing okay. It's been pretty tough, but I'm, you know, obviously, I'm doing happy you've called. What a great, you know, great thing to hear from the president. United States. Not a thing that happens every day.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

And then he says, well, I have a feeling, Trevor, you're going to have a really, really good day. He says, I just wanted to let you know that I'm going to be giving you a full and unconditional pardon.

[Tai Lopez]

Wow.

[Trevor Milton]

I've reviewed your case. It's an abomination to the justice system. These people are evil, disgusting, despicable, and they're no longer going to be able to hurt you, Trevor, ever again. And he says, I know how you feel. And he says, who are you with? I said, my wife. And he was like, you have a big, beautiful wife. You know, big, beautiful family. Yeah, I've seen your file. Tell your father that I did this. Tell your wife I did this. And my wife was there. And he was like, chelsea, just want to let you know that I'm really glad that you're there with him right now to see this, because there's a moment you guys will remember forever. And he says, I'll be back to you soon, okay? And I'm like, I don't even know how to take this at this moment, I'm like, the whole world like this. Going from hell on Earth. Even the last few hours before that were hell. Because the government, literally, that day before, just the day before, I think it was just signed the order to go in and try to seize every asset I own.

[Tai Lopez]

Wow.

[Interviewer/Host]

Were they going to take essentially everything I leave you with just the clothes.

[Trevor Milton]

Not even that. They'll give you pajamas. Like, they'll take everything you have. And. And so I have, you know, 40 employees that work for me, or 50.

[Tai Lopez]

Right.

[Trevor Milton]

So every employee would have to lose their job.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

They would probably lose their homes.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

You know, the government doesn't care. They just destroy. They don't create.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

So they're like. They're like the devil. They're just destroyers. They're not creators. They don't actually know what it's like to cultivate and build.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

They only destroy and suck out of the life out of something. And so I. You know, I'm sitting there, and hours before that, I've got some of the worst news in my life, and all of a sudden, Trump. And I'll be honest with you, that day was no. 7.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

That you could give yourself a 10.

[Trevor Milton]

I was a two to a 10.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

Two to a 10.

[Trevor Milton]

That was it. That. Those aren't healthy.

[Interviewer/Host]

That was from hell on earth to heaven on earth the same day.

[Trevor Milton]

Did you.

[Interviewer/Host]

Did you sleep better than you slept in a long time?

[Trevor Milton]

No, not that well. I slept. I slept pretty well, but it wasn't. All I could think about is, like, telling my family, then very close friends. But what we didn't want to do is get it to be leaked. Because what you don't want is. You don't want the media running out there trying to destroy your pardon. And they will. They hate. They hate anyone that gets a pardon. It's like they just attack you. So I was. I was like. I was terrified that, you know, loose lips sink chips.

[Tai Lopez]

Yes.

[Trevor Milton]

And it's very true. And I've seen it over and over again. And so I did not want my pardon to sink. My pardon. Right.

[Interviewer/Host]

For sure.

[Trevor Milton]

So we had to stay quiet. And so a week and a half goes by. Right.

[Interviewer/Host]

And it's still not signed.

[Trevor Milton]

Nothing.

[Tai Lopez]

Okay.

[Trevor Milton]

And I am terrified. I'm like, 100%. Someone in the. Someone in the White House has heard. And so, you know, someone in the White House has heard. Someone. Stop this. You know, there's, you know, look, I've never had a beef with Elon. I actually think he's I think what he's been through is total bullshit. I have a lot of sympathy for him, but I don't think he likes me at all. I think because of the competitor ship is really sad because I actually really, really liked the dude and I thought he was like, I thought he was more of a fun and game and really fun. And to him, business isn't fun and game, it's death. It's like, you know, you know, he is, he will destroy you if you don't, you know, if you're not on his side. And we are a competitor. But I thought it was like, I actually like, really looked up to him for a long time. And so it's kind of hard. When his people started attacking me, I was like, that's, that was a sad part of my life where I felt, these are the people, you know, that I was so excited because he's an entrepreneur. He's building big companies. He knows what it's like to get his ass kicked. He's been down, he's been hit by the government. I was. No one will understand what it's like to be an entrepreneur more than him. And so I have a lot of like, I actually really like the dude. I've never met him. I'd give him a high five if I did though. There's no like animosity there because you.

[Interviewer/Host]

Had a different idea. His was electric. You had the hydrogen kind of angle.

[Trevor Milton]

We did, we did both. We did both. But it was, there was, there was actually some of the people that were close to him that were involved with the short sell. And so there was, there was a couple guys that were in the bloggers that were really close to him. They're actually working on the short and you know, they kind of made fun of, they kind of made mention that like, this is what you get. And it's kind of like. And I'm like, well, that's fine. You can destroy someone and be proud of it. But I, I, that's not something I would ever do to someone. And so I, I've always liked the guy. I think that, like, what he went through is total bullcrap. I don't think it's fair. I think they target him. They stole 50 billion from him, from his stock package. Like, I'm probably more sympathetic to him. He wouldn't know this than probably anyone in the world. And I actually have like a huge side of my heart that's like, that's.

[Interviewer/Host]

Just utter BS what he's Elon had the 50 billion and then The Delaware judge said it's too much money, even though it was voted on.

[Trevor Milton]

Who is he to. Yeah, so that's like. That was so. You know, here I am, like, I. In my. My mind, I'm like, a week and a half has gone by since Trump called me, and I was like, oh, we're. We're done for, dude. Like, someone got. Because Elon. So close to President, I thought maybe he. Maybe he squashed it, you know, maybe he had some. So much hate towards me that he's like, no, I'm going to make sure you die in prison. And I was like, but I didn't know. And the President was so loving towards me and told me how everyone there loved me. When he called me that, I was like, I've heard people tell me that the President never goes back on his word, no matter what. He is a man of conviction. True. True conviction. Unless he knows he was, like, wrong. Like, where it comes to, like, if he knows it will. Like, if it's like a wrong stance. But he is a very big man of conviction, and I know someone who's close to him, and he says, Trevor, if he. He said, if. If he called you and said he's going to do that, there's nothing in this earth that would ever stop him unless he's dead, he will go through with it. So I'm, like, having all this, you know, kind of anxiety because, like you said, you want to be a 7, right? So I go from a 2 to a 10, and then all it does is do this.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

And here I am trying to tell my mind, dude, five years I've trained you to be calm.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

And I could not be calm in that week and a half.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

It was too much for my mind to comprehend.

[Interviewer/Host]

But then after a week and a half, you got it.

[Trevor Milton]

I got the call from him again.

[Tai Lopez]

Okay.

[Trevor Milton]

So me and my wife are sitting there. We're on a. We're on a call with our architects. And I'm like. And I. And I show my. And I show my wife the phone, and I'm gonna look at it. It's a Florida number.

[Tai Lopez]

Huh.

[Trevor Milton]

And I'm like, down at Mar a Lago. That. That could be a Mar a Lago call.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

And. Trevor. Hey, Mr. President. How you doing? His voice is so distinguishable.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

And I couldn't. It was him. And I'm doing pretty good. I just want to tell you, I'm sitting here and I hope you're having a good day. He's like, I hope you're having a good day. I hope you had a good week since we last talked. Yeah, I'm doing pretty good, Mr. President. Much better, thank you. And he says, well, I wanted to call you because I wanted you to be on the phone when I signed your pardon.

[Tai Lopez]

Oh, wow.

[Trevor Milton]

I wanted you to hear me when I signed it. I wanted you to be part of this. I want you to know how much it means to me to sign this for you.

[Tai Lopez]

You. Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

And I'm like. At this moment, I'm like, almost in tears because I'm like, why does this guy care about me? Why does he care so much to call me? What does he get out of this? And he gets me because he truly has a. He has a heart the size of Texas for people. He loves people. He. And he. You know what he. You know what he hates more than anything? I'll tell you what Trump hates more than anything. Trump hates bullies. He hates bullies. He loves the person that's been picked on. He hates bullies.

[Interviewer/Host]

He likes the underdog.

[Trevor Milton]

And that's who the prosecutors are. They're bullies.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

And so he, you know, he says, trevor, I'm here. I just want to let you know I'm signing. I just want you to. I want you to be here while I sign it. I'm sitting in front of it right now. And he says, okay, Trevor, hold on. And he. And he signs my part. He says, trevor, your pardon is signed. It's officially done. Under my powers under the Constitution, you are officially pardoned. You are cleaner than any person on this earth. And he says, you're even cleaner than I am, Trevor. And he kind of made fun of himself because he had been convicted. You know, he's like. He's like, you're even cleaner than I am. And he says, I want you to go tell the world, and I want you to be proud of it. And he says, is your wife there? And he says, yeah. And he says. He says, chelsea, just so. And he knows my wife's name. Like, it's just. He doesn't know me from. He cares enough about my file to have who I am. My wife. Remember the last conversation he had with her? I'm sorry, but that is a person who really cares. It's not a. Not a fake call. It's a call of compassion, call of love. And that is something to be rewarded in this life. And I gained so much respect for this man when he did this that I'll be forever grateful in my entire life for him and his family and Everybody else and all the people in the government. He was like, you're loved by everybody. And I was like, well, one day, I'd love to come see you and give you a big hug and thank you if you'd let that happen. He says, I would love it, Trevor. He says, anytime you want to come, you just come. And I'd love to see you. I'd love to, you know, take part in that little bit of that joy that I was able to bring your family.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

And I'm like, this dude literally cares. And that's what the public doesn't know about him. They only see the. Either they love him or hate him.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

They don't. They can't see him as a human. And I have seen President Trump.

[Interviewer/Host]

Well, that's another thing. The media in America also is crooked, right?

[Tai Lopez]

You got.

[Interviewer/Host]

You got criminal. They. They know that they could show the whole side of the story. Like, I live in Europe part of the time, and in Europe, it's funny, when I meet people that don't like Donald Trump, I ask them why, and they'll say something that makes me realize, I don't know, that they actually have seen what, you know, they just see one side. That's the bad thing about the media. The weird clip that's clipped out of order, out of context, goes viral. Because, beware, perverse incentives. News organizations make more money with crazy viral headlines than the truth. It used to be the truth is what you stood for when you're a reporter or when you're a prosecutor, but now it's perverse. It's money. Money.

[Trevor Milton]

You nailed it, though. It's a perverse of.

[Interviewer/Host]

So let me. Let me ask you. An interesting kind of thought that I had as I was thinking about this talk is what do you think on Biden's pardons? Because he did a lot of pardons which were very controversial. He pardoned his own son, and he pardoned. You know, I forget how many a thousand people, like, on the last day or something like this. Do you feel like pardons have to be very carefully done? Or what did you think? I don't know if you have an opinion on that.

[Trevor Milton]

I actually. My opinion is actually really formed over this period of time of experience in it. And I think our entire country was set on checks and balances.

[Tai Lopez]

Right?

[Trevor Milton]

That's what it was built on. But there's one thing that the founders did that they knew needed to have no checks and balances, and that was the presidential pardon. They needed something whether it was used for good or bad did not matter.

[Tai Lopez]

Okay.

[Trevor Milton]

They needed something that had no checks and balances in order to preserve our democracy. Because if you have checks and balances on every single thing, it'll become stagnant and just become bloated. And then you have 50 people making one decision, and it's no longer the ability of someone to fix a wrong.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

And the founding Fathers knew that the importance of a pardon.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

1866. That one of the. One of the Supreme Court justices wrote a comment about what a pardon is. And it's actually interesting. I'll read it to you right now. Because it's. It's so eloquent and beautiful, I can't even. I wish I could remember how to say it, but I can't. So I'll tell you right now what it is.

[Interviewer/Host]

You have to get a tattoo of it.

[Trevor Milton]

So. On your arm. 1866. They said. Yeah, I was right. 1866. Ex parte Garland. They're talking about the pardon. It reaches both the punishment prescribed for the offense in the guilt of the offender, and when the pardon is full, as in the case here, it releases the punishment and blots out the existence of guilt so that in the eye of the law, the offender is as innocent as if it had never happened and he had never committed the offense.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

So the Supreme Court's desire and the Founding Father's desire around part of presidential pardons was the ability for one man unchecked to be able to issue a pardon to fix anything he sees wrong.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

And it's the only one that a judge can't overrule. And I know right now that people will use that for bad and good. And I'm a believer of giving them the right to do that because.

[Tai Lopez]

Right.

[Trevor Milton]

If the second you put a single restriction on that is the second you strip the sacredness of that pardon away completely in its entirety, you add one restriction to it, it's over.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

The only restriction the Founding Fathers put on it was, is it had to be signed by the President, had to be his decision, and it had to be delivered to the person. That was the two requirements that it had, and that was it. There's no other restrictions whatsoever.

[Interviewer/Host]

Interesting.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

You can even pardon someone who's already dead.

[Trevor Milton]

You can pardon anyone you want. Even pre pardon.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

That's what Biden did. He pre pardoned everyone.

[Tai Lopez]

Right.

[Interviewer/Host]

Didn't even have anything actually accused of. So let. Let me. You know, I like to go to little spotlights in this. Banking is a big deal. And a lot of People have been debanked. In fact, Melania Trump talks about her inability to get bank accounts at one point and so on. And so when they came in to seize your assets, did you wake up one day and you log into Wells Fargo or Bank of America or whatever Citibank, and the money you had sitting there just wasn't gone.

[Trevor Milton]

It was frozen. J.P. morgan debanked me.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

Chase.

[Interviewer/Host]

So you couldn't. You couldn't even use your debit card.

[Trevor Milton]

100. They said you have 24 hours to pull your money out.

[Interviewer/Host]

Oh, so they actually gave you 24 hours.

[Trevor Milton]

They said you're. Well, they say your banks. Your account's frozen.

[Tai Lopez]

Yes.

[Trevor Milton]

The only thing you can do is make a single withdrawal.

[Tai Lopez]

Yes.

[Trevor Milton]

Your account's frozen. You're no longer welcome in our bank. Yeah, this is J.P. morgan. Before I was convicted.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah, it's before. That's the weirdest that banks are just. The whole point of America was innocent until proven guilty. In fact, other countries like France or Mexico, they actually, you're guilty till proven innocent. But in America was supposed to be different. So we're supposed to be different. Yet for you, just on the strength of them launching a case against you, kicked you out of banks. It's very unfair.

[Trevor Milton]

The hard part for me is the banks have to use the federal system to exist.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

So one of the things I hope Trump actually does is reform where banks are not. They're not allowed to operate as a bank. If they ever excommunicado anybody. You're not allowed to. Yes. Part of the system is you have to provide services to everyone because it's not fair that you can prevent someone. I, at this time, I had still had a. I mean, a lot of money.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

I didn't know how to. How do you move that much money out of a bank? And where do you put it? Because the small banks will never take it. They're like, dude, that you. You. Here you are. You get indicted.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

And you want to go put X amount of money into a. Into a bank? They're gonna be like, oh, hell no. So what do you do? You like, do I just buy gold? I mean, what do I just stack a warehouse, you know, whatever this.

[Interviewer/Host]

So what do you do?

[Trevor Milton]

That was the hard part. I had to split it up and try to divide it up amongst every bank I could think of that I had prior existence relationships with. I couldn't do new ones because I was flagged in the system. So the government, the Biden administration flagged me so I couldn't Open new accounts. I couldn't get credit, I couldn't travel, I couldn't do anything. I'm flagged as like a high risk individual of where the government has this system and it's wrong and it needs to go away.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

And as soon as they flag you, you're. You're de platformed everywhere. Twitter deleted all my followers. I lost every hundreds of thousands of followers I lost instantly from Twitter.

[Interviewer/Host]

That's.

[Trevor Milton]

It's just like I was deep platformed across the board.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah. Before.

[Trevor Milton]

Before I was even convicted.

[Interviewer/Host]

Before a conviction.

[Trevor Milton]

Before a conviction.

[Interviewer/Host]

And what do you think of crypto?

[Trevor Milton]

I was deplatformed from those two.

[Interviewer/Host]

Really?

[Trevor Milton]

Yeah. So only the government controls and anyone who thinks the crypto is like a. No government controls them. They have a know your kyc, know your customer.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

I had to they deep.

[Interviewer/Host]

What about keeping it on, you know, cold storage, wallets, things like I could.

[Trevor Milton]

Have done that but I didn't have. I didn't. You know, I couldn't open new accounts.

[Interviewer/Host]

To even get that.

[Trevor Milton]

So I got deplatformed from all my trading accounts.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

E trades like screw you, get out of here. You're no longer welcome anywhere near us.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

Like this is when I just got alleged, not even convicted. Alleged.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

And you know, different groups came in and just, they just deplatformed me. And the government red flags you or black whatever they call it, and you're done. That's it. You're not allowed to be a citizen anymore. And really Trump needs to fix that because even if you're convicted, you still should have the right to use the banking system because it's a, it is the way that you allow people to manage their life responsibly. And if you want someone who's convicted to be responsible afterwards, you should provide them a platform to be responsible.

[Tai Lopez]

Right.

[Trevor Milton]

And so it's. If not they're just going to get into moving drugs and whatever else. And so the system here doesn't really care about the well being of Americans. They.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

So what happened with real estate? Did the real estate you owned Nothing. They did they actually freeze it? Put a lien against things?

[Trevor Milton]

They leaned most of it.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

And it was actually really cool. I think, let me see here. I think it was just today. Judge just signed the order today actually saying that to remove all. He, he noticed it in the court docket a few days ago and he just signed the final order of like, of complete. Removing all, all liens, all my bond, my everything on all my properties, everything. It's all free and clear now.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

And it. Just because he has to. With the presidential pardon, it's as if you were. It's as if you are truly innocent.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

And so it's just really like, that's one thing. One reason why I think the pardon is so sacred is because it can right the wrong of a lot of evil people that are involved in taking you down.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

And I think that that's something that should never be changed. What.

[Interviewer/Host]

What do you. Since you've been in the electric car game, in the hydrogen.

[Trevor Milton]

What.

[Interviewer/Host]

What do you think? Do you think hydrogen is still a future? Do you like it better than electric? I remember my. My first mentor, Joel Salatin, who's a farmer. He was just on RFK's podcast, and when I was a 19 living on his farm, he was like, we should do hydrogen because, you know, you basically got water and you turn it into fuel. Do you still feel like now Tesla has not, as far as I know, has not really pushed hydrogen. They've gone the electric route. Which do you think is better?

[Trevor Milton]

So Elon doesn't like hydrogen at all. And his followers are very, very anti hydrogen. I mean, they're in the. You know, they're just like a massive inflammable or what? No, it's because Elon can. Elon was controlling the electric vehicle market, and that's how. Elon's very good at what he does. Like, I give him tons of props. He is a master communicator. He's absolutely brilliant at what he does. And he has gotten his followers to. To whatever he wants to form the opinion of. They'll follow him and fantastic at what he does. But the real answer to everything is that one solution does not fit, and one solution does not fit.

[Tai Lopez]

All right.

[Trevor Milton]

Hydrogen is the. Is. Is the answer to Mo. Anything that is heavy. Hydrogen is the answer to 100, hands down.

[Interviewer/Host]

So like a big 18 wheeler.

[Trevor Milton]

18 wheeler. Ship train.

[Interviewer/Host]

Tractors.

[Trevor Milton]

Tractors.

[Interviewer/Host]

Hydrogen's amazing because I have tractors on my phone.

[Trevor Milton]

Hydrogens are phenomenal.

[Interviewer/Host]

So why is it better than electric?

[Trevor Milton]

Well, because. So. Because what it can do is. It can. So there's two things. There's two areas. Why. And remember, I'm only saying this for certain sections of the market. Yeah, Cars, I think. I think you. I think like the battery electric makes more sense on a car because the infrastructure hydrogen is so expensive inside your home. It doesn't make sense. You can plug a car charger for. For 800 bucks, you know, with a charger, and you're done. Hydrogen is more expensive, but on a mass scale, hydrogen is actually very cheap to build. You can, you can build hydrogen for under a dollar a kilogram with mass scale production. We've already been able to prove that that was what our business spreadsheets were, that the government said I was lying, about which I wasn't. We had independent audits, everything, all verified it. You can do hydrogen under a buck. That makes it equivalent to $2 a gallon, about A$50 a gallon in diesel fuel. So that's how cheap it is, equivalent. So the, the downsides that people say is the inefficiency. So if you see the hate, the people that hate hydrogen, all they do is bash inefficiency. Like, oh, hydrogen's so inefficient. Look, forget inefficiencies. It's actually stupid. Why? Let's say you, let's say you're creating, you're charging your car out of a solar panel. Well, the solar panel is only 17 efficient or 21.

[Tai Lopez]

Right.

[Trevor Milton]

And then you go through the AC to DC or the converters, you lose another 6 to 8%, goes into the battery, you lose another 68. You pull it out at 68, you're down to 3% efficiency. Don't talk to me about efficiency. Then the power plant, how inefficient are they? How about the power lines, how much do they lose?

[Tai Lopez]

Right.

[Trevor Milton]

So the, the whole thing about hydrogen inefficient is just stupid because every platform is inefficient. What you can do with hydrogen is you can store massive amounts of energy on a vehicle, very light. So on a big rig, truck, semi truck, you can store, let's say you can store 600 miles or 1,000 miles of range and you're 3,000 or 4,000 pounds lighter than a battery electric version. Battery electric. Semi trucks will still always work in the short range. The short range stuff under 400 miles, the people that are doing long haul, hydrogen makes more sense. Ships, hydrogen makes more sense. Why? You can store liquid hydrogen in millions of kilo or thousands of kilograms liquefied. And that only takes up, you know, size of say this room.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

Or a little bigger. You couldn't do that with batteries. You would be like 100 times the size of your house. So hydrogen is so dense. The other advantage hydrogen has is it's the only element in the atmosphere, is one the most abundant. But number two is it's, it never ends. You take it, you take water, you split it, you pull the hydrogen out, you use it, it goes back out as Vapor goes into water and it's just, it's a recycle.

[Tai Lopez]

Right.

[Trevor Milton]

You don't have to plow a mountain down to build a car.

[Tai Lopez]

Right.

[Trevor Milton]

So when it comes now you do it for other metals, but we're just talking about just the storage source. The storage source. You don't have to do that. So that's kind of the idea is that, like, it's not the best in all situations, though. It's terrible in some situations, but it's really good in others. And the answer is one size does not fit all.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah, yeah, for sure. I think. What do you think of Tesla now? Because of Elon's association with Donald Trump and Doge, People are terrorizing. People are firebombing, People are spray painting and selling their Teslas. Is that, you know, is that something that's logical or is this just the machine that's against anybody who speaks out?

[Trevor Milton]

You know, I. I hate targeting people for something you don't believe in.

[Tai Lopez]

Right.

[Trevor Milton]

The world needs to have people that believe different ways. And we need to allow people to live their life, even if they. Even if we disagree.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

I saw personally what the government did to me and what's wrong. It doesn't mean I'm going to go destroy their lives, firebomb their house, murder their families, kill them, whatever. And that's what's going to happen. Someone's going to die and they're going to, you know, they're firebombing all these cars. They're causing hundreds of millions of dollars in damage. And it's disgusting because, I mean, I look at, I'm like, I never did that to the prosecutors.

[Tai Lopez]

Right.

[Trevor Milton]

I allowed them to hurt me. I allowed them to lie about me. I allowed them to disparage me, and I allowed them to convince the public of lies and destroy my family. You know, hurt my family in ways you could never imagine. And I sat there and I took it like a man. And these cowards who go around firebombing people, they're not men, they're cowards or they're not great women, they are a disgrace to women. The most powerful thing you can do is allow someone to have a different opinion of yours.

[Tai Lopez]

Right?

[Trevor Milton]

And one day they're going to learn that. And it's the hardest thing to do, is just sit down, bite your lip and take it and just say, it's okay. They can. They can believe differently than I do. Don't like it. I didn't like it when Biden did a lot of things I didn't like it when he. When he took the Department of Justice and turned him into a weapon against me. But I didn't firebomb their homes. I didn't firebomb the court systems.

[Tai Lopez]

Right?

[Trevor Milton]

So if they wanted to go both ways, this country's gonna burn. And I'm not ready for this country to burn. Not yet. You know, we can't do that. We got to stay away from that.

[Interviewer/Host]

Do you think that some of the reason a case was brought against you because you brought up the short sellers that were gonna make or lose money based on your conviction? What about the big automobile companies? Do you think they looked at you as something, an alternative? Hydrogen, electric? Do you think there was any conspiracy theory to get you from those lobbies?

[Trevor Milton]

There was one or two groups I knew that had our demise in their crosshairs. They were really scared of us. They were. They hired people to figure out ways to take us down. But it wasn't a conspiracy. It was just straight, shrewd business. It was right. Destroy him at all costs. He's going to hurt our bottom line. That's shrewd business. I don't do it to people, but it's business. And you got to be willing. I take it all the time. My competitors, some of my competitors did it to me. That's okay. That's a permitted area of the world. I don't. You know, as I said, I don't like it, but I don't do it. But it happens. And that's a fair game, to be honest with you. And I kind of look at it like they had something to do with it. But it really came down to those two things. It came down to the fact that the prosecutors wanted, or the Biden Department of Justice wanted to be able to convict people based upon what they thought or said.

[Tai Lopez]

Right.

[Trevor Milton]

They wanted to extend the power of the prosecutors to have more reach, to indict people based upon things that are not criminal and to create civil acts into criminal acts. So that's what happened. And the prosecutors just got in line. They just said, hey, cool, Sounds good. You want to scout, nail these people, Trevor? Let's do it. I'll nail them, and I can go get a $10 million a year job when I'm done and I help Biden and I. And I gave the prosecutors more power in the future to go after anyone they don't like. The problem with that is, eventually you burn your whole country down because people will revolt on you and it'll turn into a mass civil war, and you'll turn America back all the way into the 1700s again. They don't understand the damage they do because of their own desires to increase their power. Any type of increase of power is normally bad.

[Tai Lopez]

Right? Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

America was built off. You don't have a king. And so people came to America because they wanted a smaller government. If you lived in England in the 1700s, it was centuries old. Royalty, monarchs, all this systems of bureaucracy. America, you know, 100 years, a little over 100 years ago, 2% of Americans had to pay any income taxed in 1800 0. And so the machine we call government has gotten bigger and bigger. And generally, things that get too big go downhill. I mean, it's just. It's like everybody knows this. It's like quality of food. If you had to cook for just your friends and family, you can cook a really high quality meal. If you have to cook for a stadium of people, you end up just making baked beans and hot dogs. Right. And so America was supposed to be more states. Right. So that you fragment things out and so no one centralized. So, you know, when Trump came in and said, drain the swamp, I was like, well, this is probably what if the founding fathers of America were in a time machine fast forwarded to the 2020s, they would probably say, we gotta drain this swamp. Do you think? I'm assuming you weren't a big fan of Biden, but do you think. My mom says, oh, Biden wasn't even controlling. He was just a figurehead. There was other people behind all of these things, these, you know. Do you think so?

[Trevor Milton]

You know, I never met Biden. I was never there. I only saw what was going on on tv, you know? Yeah, I know that he wasn't. He wasn't all there. How much control he did and didn't do, I don't know. It's probably more his. More his wife and more other people around him that. That knew him and probably were trying to do what, you know, what he was saying or wanted to do. But I think you were. I think you hit the head on the. Look, I think that really this all comes down to the fact that we have to. We have to. The government has gotten so big and so powerful, we have to strip it down 90%.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

Because you can't just go 5%. You got to go 90% down. And I think it comes down to where we ought to be turning things over to our neighborhoods, not our federal government. Like.

[Tai Lopez]

Right.

[Trevor Milton]

I love farmer markets. It's like one of my favorite things. And I'll Be honest with you. Eggs wouldn't be $10 a dozen. If you. If everyone went to farmer markets, everyone would have chickens. You'd have, like.

[Interviewer/Host]

By the way, that was big governments killing chickens. I talked Joel Salton, still a mentor of mine, and we talked on it. He's like, the government killed, you know, whatever. It was, 100 million chickens. And he's like, you know what? They didn't even have the avian flu, like 1 or 2%. And so they just killed every. And he's like, and the insurance companies.

[Trevor Milton]

Have to pay for it.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah, exactly.

[Trevor Milton]

And then everything goes up. It's like this. That's the problem with bureaucracy, is that you. The damages you do are so exponential, they never end.

[Tai Lopez]

Yes.

[Trevor Milton]

Get rid of them. Turn them down to a neighborhood. Like, let people.

[Tai Lopez]

Yes.

[Trevor Milton]

Buy their food. Neighborhood. You know, I love farmer markets, local markets. Get rid of this whole, like, I mean, this entire thing where the federal government is in your business. They should just be out of 90% of it.

[Tai Lopez]

Yes.

[Trevor Milton]

And I think America would be healthy again.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

Well, it's like the old saying, show me the man, I can find the crime. That's Stalin.

[Trevor Milton]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

So the old. One of the ways it's happened in the last administration was they were just looking to find. I don't like that guy. Find something. A lawyer told me if a cop follows you for 500 miles.

[Trevor Milton]

Yep.

[Interviewer/Host]

Even if you're a good driver, he's going to find something he can give you a ticket for. But that's not the America we don't want America to be the surveillance state. You know, we don't want to be followed 500 miles by a cop if we do something crazy bad, you know, but we don't want the surveillance state. And the world now with even phones. The one downside, I'm really a fan of AI on many things, but the one downside of AI, it's being used by. For surveillance. So I hope Trump and the administration just shrinks everything so there's just not so many people. Government's the largest employer in the world, you know, or in the United States. And it was never meant to be that way. In the founding fathers didn't envision America that the largest employer.

[Trevor Milton]

So angry if they knew that. No, they'd be angry.

[Interviewer/Host]

In the 1800s, the president used to open his door on Saturdays. There was a line, you could meet the president. America was always supposed to be a small government place, you know. And now. Couple other questions as we wrap up.

[Trevor Milton]

But.

[Interviewer/Host]

You'Ve built six companies, one of them became worth over $30 billion. This is very rare. I have a lot of people watch me. They're entrepreneurs, they're business owners. They're people who want to make money. What's if today was your last day on Earth. You were going to go to Mars. Okay. And recolonize Mars. And you had to leave one tip on making real money. What have you learned in your life?

[Trevor Milton]

The very best will fail a lot. And you can't take that personal. You can't, you can't think that it's personal. So I, I would, I would try to help people. This is something I thought about so much and it's a very personal answer for me because like I failed through half of my companies have failed. Half of them have somewhat succeeded or done very well. That is an incredible percentage for anybody is starting a company. And I'm lucky. But my first few failed back to back to back. Some of them. And so you have to remember that like you being an entrepreneur is one of the hardest things in life. Most will fail. 90 plus percent will always fail. If you try again, you'll probably fail again. If you try again, you'll probably fail again. Don't hate yourself. Don't get down if, if you have to go your fourth time to be successful. Here's what I will say though. I learned in this life that you're. You will succeed better than everybody around you and be recognized as a great leader if you're in an area that you naturally know better by your God given rights than everybody else around you. Let me explain. If I wanted to go be a. Let's just say I wanted to go be a. I don't know, a professional polo player.

[Tai Lopez]

Right.

[Trevor Milton]

No matter how much time I ever put into it, I would never be a professional polo player.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

I could spend the next 10 years of my life, I may become really good. But you know what? I won't be.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

I won't be the number one.

[Tai Lopez]

Yes.

[Trevor Milton]

On the field. And I am only okay entrepreneurs. You need to know this. You should only be okay being number one.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

So you need to find what you're really good at. What is it that makes you just love to get up in the day? So like mine mainly I love engineering, I love transportation, I love complex stuff and I, that's the stuff that I live for. Technology, complexity. So I've my mind, all it does is live in this world. And you know what's really good about that? It's rare in my life that I, that I meet someone that actually knows as much as I do in those arenas. In the areas that I focus on. There's a lot of smarter people around me that are in other areas. I'm only talking about the areas that I know I'm the very best at. And if I stay in my lane and a very narrow lane. I'm talking very narrow lane of what I know I'm good at. I'm unstoppable.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

Beyond measure. But if, If I'm. And I did that, I built a company from the ground up, which is one of the hardest things to do in life. And I took it to over $30 billion. I was the first truck manufacturer to hit production for hydrogen and battery electric trucks in America. And they went farther than any other truck had ever gone. And they're real and they're out the production line. So if anyone ever says otherwise, they're just ignorant. They don't care. The best part is it's all been documents all there. The information's all there. But you. I would not have succeeded because I found 10,000 things that were hell from the time I started till I succeeded. And if you don't love what you do and if you're not the very best at what you do.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

You will eventually give up because you don't love it enough to keep doing it.

[Tai Lopez]

Yes.

[Trevor Milton]

And that's. That's the best answer I could give anybody is that's it. That's. I don't care if you're a damn swim instructor. If you're the best, if you're the top 1% swim instructor, you're going to become wealthy.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

If you're the top 1% of people who cook a chef, you will become wealthy. If you are the top. So go find your top 1%. That would be my 1 headline. Find your top 1% and you'll become wildly successful even if it takes you two or three times.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah. Yeah. I always.

[Interviewer/Host]

I. You know some people say do what you love, but I. My. One of my metros is say do what you have a lot of curiosity in because as Albert Einstein said, he said I wasn't the smartest, but I was the most curious. So out of. You find things. Like for me, I would not be able to compete with you or Elon Musk because I literally don't particularly like on a farm. I know how to weld dealing with engineering. But I get. I'm not curious about it.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

You know, now there's things I am curious about. Psychology, reading people psychometrics, which is the study of personality. See virality. That I. I think about it. I'm like, for sure. There's a good chance. I think about it more than anyone on.

[Trevor Milton]

There you go. That was the whole point. I love that you just said this because you look. I look at all these books, right? And I was trying to understand you. I was like trying to get into your. In your mind to understand who you were. And you talked a lot about philosophers and people that mentored you. You love knowledge very big. Like, I can see it right now out of your eyes that you love knowledge. Knowledge to you is answers. Knowledge to you is everything. I can see that. And the difference is, is you live in the world where you absorb and love knowledge.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

I could never compete with you in that world. I love knowledge, but in one little tiny area. So you don't ever compare yourself to someone else because you can be wildly successful at what you do. And what you ought to do is praise your buddies for being that because you know you're never going to be it.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

And they'll praise you back for being wildly successful in your little bullseye area. And that's it. And this is what. If you want to become wealthy, you want to do really well. What you just said. Dead on.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

Well, I like what Warren Buffet, he always says he's got a small circle of competence and he stays in his circle, and so you'll stay in your lane. And I think one of the big problems in the school system, in the education system, is there's nothing even in university. They don't really use testing, personality quizzes. Now we can do genetic stuff to find your natural strength. They just, you know, people are 18 and go, okay, you want to go to this university, what do you want to go for? People go for poetry. People go for English. The interesting stat that shows that the American system doesn't work is only 30% of people who get a college degree use it. So they go into debt 100 grand, four years of their life.

[Trevor Milton]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

I'm like, that's. By the way, if the government wants to prosecute a scam, why don't you start there? Because it's a trillion dollar scam.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

I always say the biggest scams are the ones that are right under your nose. Sugar sodas in America, a lot of the pharmaceutical companies and for sure, the education system. And as you brought up, the justice system. So. All right, here's my last question for you. I always ask this to interesting people, and I kind of asked it before in a Narrow thing on making money. But if you had to, this was truly your last day. You're 100 years old or however long, and all your kids and grandkids are around you and you want to impart final wisdom on life, not just money. What's that? One or two sentences you tell them?

[Trevor Milton]

I think this has probably been said a lot way before me, so it's not something take credit for, but it's not. I've had to learn. And I think that's. I think that's. There's a reason for it. If you come to the same conclusion many brilliant people have come to, there's a reason why you come to that conclusion. Because many brilliant minds have come to their way smarter than you. And it really is this, that it is incredibly fun to make money. There's no doubt. It's incredibly fun to be able to buy things. It's incredibly fun to help other people. But really what it comes down to in this life is that the most valuable thing you have in your entire life is time and your family. And the more wealthy you get, the more you value your time and the more you value your family. People work their whole lives and give up their most valuable thing their entire life for something that they don't value later in their life. If my wife. If one thing I've learned from her is how to actually be present today. Because I always look in the future. My mind looks at. I'm a visionary. I love to look at the future and how do I solve a problem? She's had to teach me how to. How do you. How do you think? How do you view? Like, what are you doing today? To absorb the greatest moment, you know, the moments today to make you remember. And I think that that is really what it is, is that don't get lost. We talk a lot about wealth, building wealth, life, you know, businesses, companies. That's not our goal in this life. You know, we can use it to help, and hopefully we do. And a lot of people do. But the most important thing really is, is those. Is those minutes with your wife, with your kids, with your family. They are the most valuable thing you have. It's the only. It's the only thing that the wealthiest people in the world can not buy any more of, right? They can only manage what they've been given.

[Tai Lopez]

Right?

[Trevor Milton]

So that would be that. Honestly, I wish it was some great amount of knowledge, but that is honestly what I came to when they took my freedom, they took my life, they took my assets, they took everything. The only Thing I cared about was my family.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

And spending time with them.

[Interviewer/Host]

That's good.

[Trevor Milton]

So I, I value my family. I value my brothers, my sister, my dad, my wife, my, my, you know, and some people have kids. I don't have kids yet. That would be like, that's ultimately don't work yourself out of your family because you've, you've given up the only thing you can't buy.

[Interviewer/Host]

Which by the way I want to do one add on last question. I said that that was the second to last because a lot of people watching this are people who are into the future trends of technology, of transportation, of energy. Paint a picture where we might be in five or 10 years. What do you see? Are they going to be flying cars? Are they going to be hydrogen powered semis? Are there going to be no more Uber drivers because only AI is driving. All cars are self driving. Are we going to still have jobs or what do you see, see this next 10, 20 years because like I said, you don't have kids yet but once you do, they're going to be born into that world. I know you're working on new companies and engineering and new tech. What do you see as the most hopeful things and maybe as the scariest things coming down the line?

[Trevor Milton]

This subject's probably pretty fun to talk to you about because you're the amount of books and know like the what you've done with history and to learn and knowledge and philosophers and stuff and just the stuff that really actually comes into this category. I think humans are dumb enough to self implode. We naturally do. I like history. I don't know it well enough. I would love to know it more. I wasn't given that gift. So as I said earlier, I stay in my lane. I was never given the gift of understanding history and so I like it. But I don't spend my entire day in it thinking about it. So I knew I had to put. I couldn't spin there. Even though I like it. You look at the Egyptians, you look at some of the most brilliant civilizations that ever lived. The mound builders in America, all the way down to the Aztecs in South America. I mean all the big places. One thing is common knowledge that has never ever changed throughout the entire existence of human Earth. And that is every civilization falls right. So we have to look at this and we say where is it going to be? I think that what's going to happen is we're going to, I think we're going to. I think the scary part, and I'll get into the good. The scary part is I think we're going to self destruct. I think we're going to end up modifying genetics enough and doing stupid things to where we self destruct and cause a lot of pain. And I think that'll come through a massive financial ruin. Dictatorships, murder, you know, things like that. Like where we're trying to control people and, and you know, maybe we do stupid stuff with genetics where it causes massive problems throughout, throughout civilization. I think that's the scary part. That's the part I don't like it. That's the part I don't like about humans is that we get so big that we decide to destroy ourselves, you know, or that's the natural occurrence, I should say. The really cool stuff is I think that we're going to get into the ability to. I think we're going to get into the ability to move material in ways that's never been known in our civilization times. I think there's ways to, to move material regardless of weight.

[Interviewer/Host]

Are we talking cargo? Talking about anything, something manufactured in China or mining steel or anything?

[Trevor Milton]

Yeah, I believe that like, and I could be. This is gonna be a topic that I'm gonna probably get a lot of criticism for. It's okay though, because I'm. Everyone can be kooky in a couple areas in their life. This is my kookiness. Okay, so everyone's gonna laugh at me on this, but I, I actually believe that the, the, the pyramids were, were built by the ability to control the, to lift the stones of. Control them. Not through actually any human or any like involvement by physical touch. I believe it was controlling the elements around them like levitation, like be able to lift it, you know, lift it somehow. Don't know yet. But I believe that humans are on the cusp of learning how to control the elements because of AI they're going to crack the code of the ability to understand how to modify and control elements. When they do that, they'll, they'll learn how to move things without any human intervention, which is going to change everything we know of in this world for probably a thousand to ten thousand years. Because I believe the same thing happened to the Egyptian civilization where they learned how to move things. It was weird because they didn't get the technological advance on electronics back then, but they got the advancement of understanding elements and atoms because they could understand the skies, they understand stars better than we ever could. Even our big computers could. I think that they were able to, to, to essentially move stones by the Ability just to, you know, to like command the elements around them to move.

[Tai Lopez]

Right.

[Trevor Milton]

So you could have some 10,000 tons and they could just move it. How? I don't know. But this, if we do know this, that matter is controllable. Weather does it. Weather can pick up, you know, the weather is there. Magnetic. There. There is. We know that matter is controllable. Thank heavens humans have not figured it out yet. But I think we're on the cusp of it and I think in the next 25 to 30 years we're going to learn how to control matter.

[Tai Lopez]

Yes.

[Trevor Milton]

And when you do that, everything that we've ever known as humans is going to completely transform greater than the computer did to human.

[Interviewer/Host]

Does that mean maybe instead of me having to get on an airplane in LAX and fly to Sweden, I'll be able to transport.

[Trevor Milton]

I, I do.

[Interviewer/Host]

That's the one. That's my crazy thing. Come out with the damn instant transport with no jet lag.

[Trevor Milton]

I think you're going to. I think you're going to be able to. Because it's the way I. The way I'd phrase it is everything around us is matter. So air is matter. Everything's matter. Matter has energy. It's been, it's been proven.

[Tai Lopez]

Right?

[Interviewer/Host]

So, yeah, string theory talks about that.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

If. Tell me, this is a. This is an occurrence that's happened more times than you could ever count. So you'll know it's true. It's not a coincidence. It's impossible because the statistics. How many times have you thought of someone in the phone rings that's from that person. So this happened to every person is why I know it's not a coincidence. This is statistically impossible to be, to be wrong. The matter, when you think about something, it transports instantly to that person. And your matter through the air, through the energy, goes to them, alerts them, and they immediately think about you and they react on it. So it's the same idea of every action has a reaction, right?

[Tai Lopez]

Yes.

[Trevor Milton]

So if you think about someone, they're going to think back up. They're going to think of you subconsciously or they're subconsciously going to know you talk to them. I think it's going to be the same thing. You're going to be able to, you're going to be able to move like not only move matter, but yourself or other things. Like if I wanted to move this house or stone, it could be, it could be moved as an entirety or partially whatever I wanted anywhere, instantly, because that's what energy is Everything is just a. Just a collection of energy. And how it's bound together is literally just a collection of energy. And the way that they, they associate themselves with each other, once we figure that we crack it, it's over. Then, then it's like, then you're talking about interstellar travel. You're talking about, I don't think it's going to be with rockets. I think it's going to be interstellar.

[Interviewer/Host]

Once you can go faster in a speed of light, there you go. You could go back in time or for. My grandpa was an astrophysicist and he used to say when I was a little boy, he said, die if we could go faster than the speed of light, we could time travel and even going close to it. But he said, the problem is mass increases, so we get too heavy and we don't have anything yet that can do this propulsion. So if you could find a. I've read different, you know, experiment simulations that scientists are trying to do. One of them was a person would sit in a rocket. But instead of the rocket propelling into space faster than speed of light, you pull the universe towards you, to you. And it sounds, and this is like mainstream quantum physicists coming up, this is not like a fringe theory that sounds impossible to us. But when you think about it, every technology we have would have got you branded a witch and burned at the stake 500 years ago like a moped, which is not impressive to anybody. Now, if you had rolled up in the Roman, you know, Julius Caesar and just buzzed around on a moped, they would be like, sorcery, witchcraft. So, yeah, I was reading about Leonardo da Vinci. You know, Leonardo da Vinci, he. He wrote out a bicycle that looks kind of like the bicycle we have now. He didn't have the steel and the way to make the spokes and all that. But so you have people in history that are seeing five years, 500 years ahead. But in general, there's very few people that can really understand what these next, even 10 years, because you have quantum computers coming. Quantum computers could crack cancer, for example. There's a lot, I think Ray Kurzweil, one of these guys is like Peter Diamandis. They're like, cancer is about to be cracked. And cancer's one of the nastiest things. More people have drama, you know, from cancer, especially in the Western world, than anything.

[Trevor Milton]

So it's 100. I think that's where we're going to be. I think it's going to be that everyone. You talk about those one moments in Society that changes society for a thousand years.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yes.

[Trevor Milton]

Computers was one of them.

[Tai Lopez]

Yep.

[Trevor Milton]

Transportation was one of them.

[Tai Lopez]

Yes.

[Trevor Milton]

I think the next one is going to be the ability to, to control matter.

[Tai Lopez]

Yeah.

[Trevor Milton]

And that's when it's going to be scary because I think that's ultimately what killed the Egyptians off. I think what happened is their ability to control matter was so. They became so advanced that they ended up killing each other off with it.

[Interviewer/Host]

Right.

[Trevor Milton]

They could use it to harm each other. And it became. They used it for war. Just like the nuclear bomb is used. Could potentially be used for. For good to deter, but then bad to actually murder.

[Tai Lopez]

Yes.

[Trevor Milton]

It's only enough time until we're all stupid enough to actually hit the red button and then we're all done anyways. They will, we will break that eventually because of AI and quantum computers. We will learn how to crack material and matter control. And then I think at that point that's going to be the next. That's the, the transportation, that's the, the computer and then that's the.

[Interviewer/Host]

Is that your next company?

[Trevor Milton]

No, I'm not that smart. I will never. I, I will have. No, I, I'm a little bit. I, I think when we do that, it's, it's going to be the end of what we know. And I actually, even if I did figure it out, I would never share it with society.

[Tai Lopez]

Okay.

[Trevor Milton]

Because I think it's so harmful.

[Interviewer/Host]

It's too dangerous.

[Trevor Milton]

I just, I don't think humans can, can be okay with.

[Interviewer/Host]

Einstein regretted working on the nuclear bomb, did he? Oppenheimer? Oh, yeah. They were like, ah. You know, he's like, the Nobel Peace Prize is based around this Alfred Nobel guy. The Scandinavian who basically invented dynamite because it was good for mining.

[Tai Lopez]

Right.

[Interviewer/Host]

You could mine in Sweden for iron ore, but it turned into World War I. It turned into artillery fire.

[Tai Lopez]

That.

[Interviewer/Host]

And he just, he always regretted it. That's where the Nobel Prize he wanted. He wanted to be used for peace. So you're probably right. If you come up with something that can just tell me though, so I can transport to Europe real quick. Australia, the flight to Dubai is too. I love travel. Brazil. We both like Brazil. I know I'll be down in Brazil. You should come down when I'm down.

[Trevor Milton]

I can now come.

[Interviewer/Host]

That's a cool.

[Trevor Milton]

We'll go down together and.

[Interviewer/Host]

Well, I'm glad you're free, man.

[Trevor Milton]

Thank you, buddy. Appreciate it.

[Interviewer/Host]

Congratulations on freedom. Thus is more important to me.

[Trevor Milton]

Fantastic podcast, by the way.

[Interviewer/Host]

Oh, well, thank you. You're great to talk to. This will be a good one. This will be a good.