Bobbi Brown (2:35)

Oh, it's so good to see you, too.

Tamsen Fadal (2:37)

I really love your story. Every time I think, like, reinvention or starting over, your name always comes up in a conversation, and I think that there's something to be said for that.

Bobbi Brown (2:45)

I guess I'm becoming known for that. You know, I've been known for so many things, but now that's the newest thing that people are like, you did it again. How'd you. I don't know. I just did it.

Tamsen Fadal (2:55)

I like that answer, though. I just did it.

Bobbi Brown (2:57)

I just get up and I. You know, people want to know all the time, how do you do this? You just start. You start. Like, I'm sure you thought about that before you started this chapter of your life. How do I do this? How do I do this? Stop asking. Just start doing it.

Tamsen Fadal (3:11)

I love that advice, because I feel like you're right. People want a to do list, right? They want a list of, like, okay, get up in the morning and then make. And I don't know that there really. It's really just starting. You're right about that. Sometimes that's the hardest part. Right? Sometimes that's the hardest part, but it is the only way you're gonna get there, right?

Bobbi Brown (3:25)

And by the. If you do something and say, well, that didn't work, or, I didn't get any, you know, eyeballs on that, okay, well, do something different then. Right?

Tamsen Fadal (3:34)

And that's where we. That's where we miss out. Because sometimes I think that fear holds you back. I want to go back to young Bobby.

Bobbi Brown (3:41)

Did you always, I'm not young Bobby now. I think I am. I'm as young as I'm gonna be, baby.

Tamsen Fadal (3:47)

I know. I know, right? That's what my father said to me one day. He's like, this is the youngest you're ever going to be. And I was like, yeah. That was a realization.

Bobbi Brown (3:53)

Yeah. See, I think we're in the second half. I'm in the second half of my life, of my teenage years. That's how I look at it.

Tamsen Fadal (4:00)

Yeah, I like that. Do you think of things differently when you think of age? Because I don't think of age like I used to when I was younger. I was more worried about being Older than I am now.

Bobbi Brown (4:09)

I was never worried about being older. I just never thought I'd get there. Right. I just never thought I'd get there. And you know, I'm, and I talk about my age all the time. I don't want it to define me because really in my head I am the same 30 something year old kid. But I'm gonna, in two years I'll be 70, which is incredibly ridiculous.

Tamsen Fadal (4:31)

You're still acting like the 30 something, right? And that's what makes all the difference in the world. I talk about my dad a lot and he's 85 and I swear he still acts very young. And it's, it's really, it's actually been a nice thing for me to look at and see because it's taught me like that's all that makes all the difference in the world. When you start act like you're, you know, I can't, I won't. This is not what normal people do at this age. Then that's what defined you.

Bobbi Brown (4:55)

What's normal?

Tamsen Fadal (4:56)

I don't know anymore. I don't think that there is. I think we're creating a new roadmap, I think for that in a lot of ways. And I hope media catches up with that and we start seeing the right images. And thank you to you for putting those out there.

Bobbi Brown (5:08)

Well, the biggest problem I think with the TV world is HDTV was created for football, right? Not for people's faces.

Tamsen Fadal (5:18)

I know that is, trust me, I lived through the brutalness of that. And I know, I know you have too. It's a whole new world. Did you always know that beauty was gonna be a part of your life? Did you know from an age when, you know, like I put makeup on when I was a little girl, I did all these different things, but did you always know that inherently somewhere?

Bobbi Brown (5:38)

Well, my mother did the most incredible thing. When I came home and announced I wanted to drop out of school, she said, you can't. She didn't finish college and I had to. But mom, I don't know what I wanna do. She said, forget what you wanna do, what you think you should do, or forget how you going to make a living if today was your birthday, you could do anything, what would you want to do? And I said I wanted to go play with makeup at the department store. Why don't you be a makeup artist? I said, mom, I don't want to go to beauty school. And she said, no, I'm sure there's a college somewhere. And I found a college that let me make up my own major.

Tamsen Fadal (6:09)

How old were you when you said that?

Bobbi Brown (6:11)

A year into college. So I must have been 20, 21 at the top.

Tamsen Fadal (6:15)

But a lot of people, a lot of parents would be like, well, see what you want to do. Maybe study some of these things, get a job, get a job. Then you can decide if you really wanna do that. So that's an amazing conversation to have out loud and also to be able to follow that and not feel like you've made some mistake. You just got to go after what you wanted.

Bobbi Brown (6:34)

Right. But then it really defined me. Cause I found Emerson College and I went there and I told them what I wanted to do, and they said, huh, we don't have that here, but we have something called an interdisciplinary major. And I'm like, what's that? You just make up your own major? And I did. And that was really my start of being an entrepreneur.

Tamsen Fadal (6:52)

What did you call the major?

Bobbi Brown (6:53)

Theatrical makeup with a minor in photography.

Tamsen Fadal (6:56)

Oh, wow.

Bobbi Brown (6:57)

Yeah.

Tamsen Fadal (6:57)

Is it still there?

Bobbi Brown (6:58)

Well, it was never there. I just did as I went.

Tamsen Fadal (7:02)

Gosh, I love that. I feel like you've been doing it as you went all along. I feel like that's been a common theme.

Bobbi Brown (7:08)

It is, because when I moved to New York and said, oh, I better start working because I have no money, you know, there was no computers. I couldn't, like, search the Internet. I didn't know anything. And I opened up the Yellow pages and just looked up anything that said makeup or models or fashion. And I just started making calls and figuring out how to become a makeup artist.

Tamsen Fadal (7:29)

How to become a makeup artist, and then how to have such a name that is synonymous with makeup and cosmetics. Well, I never thought about that as that was happening. What were you thinking? Were you just thinking, I like doing this and I'm gonna keep doing it?

Bobbi Brown (7:42)

Honestly, it was never enough. It was never good enough. I was like, I wanted to get better. I wanted to get better jobs. I wanted to do, you know, work with people that I thought were cooler than me. I wanted, you know, I just always wanted to push myself. And so I figured out how to move in those kind of circles and built, you know, a name for myself. And then they interviewed me again, and it got written up in a magazine. And then someone else interviewed me and asked me questions. And I think because I was giving advice to the readers that they could understand.

Tamsen Fadal (8:19)

Okay, I have one small favor to ask you. If the Tamsen show has ever made you feel seen, stronger, more informed, whatever it is, I'd really Love your help. We have just been nominated for a Signal Listeners Choice Award in the self improvement and self help category. And your vote would mean everything. You can just scroll down to the episode description, tap the link and cast your vote. I promise it takes less than a minute and it really helps us keep amplifying the voices and the stories that matter. Thank you, thank you, thank you for being a part of this community. I'm so excited to keep doing this together. You have played by. We've all played by rules. Right. How do you feel right now in your life? Do you feel like you. Are you making up the rules?

Bobbi Brown (9:03)

I'm definitely making up the rules. Like I'm, you know, people say that I'm a rule breaker. I'm not really a rule breaker. I just make up rules.

Tamsen Fadal (9:10)

I like that.

Bobbi Brown (9:10)

Right.

Tamsen Fadal (9:11)

Do you have any now that you're living by?

Bobbi Brown (9:13)

Just to do what seems right, not what people think you should do, but just what makes sense. And, you know, my biggest rule is just to be nice. Even if you're working with a team of people and you're not happy with what you're seeing, you could say it in a nice way.

Tamsen Fadal (9:26)

Yeah. I'm sure you've been at all into that over time. I mean, the industry that you have been in, in New York, you know, and you have been with. I mean, you've been with very, very big people with big teams and a lot of people speaking for them. So what did you learn from. Because there are a lot of lessons, I'm sure, that came along the way, whether they were red carpets or standing next to big names through the years. And I read some of them in here and I know a lot about you, but I was like, oh, wow, you have really been with so many big celebrities and big names and big thought leaders at the same time. Was there a common theme with all.

Bobbi Brown (10:05)

That people said to me or it's been said about me that I'm very disarming. And I take that as a compliment because I. And I see people all the same. I don't care how famous you are, how not famous you are, how regular you are. People are just people. And so, you know, I think I got that from my papa Sam. He was like that. It didn't matter who you were. My mother also, it didn't matter who you were, what you did, what your. You know, where you come from, everyone was treated the same. And I just, you know, I'm someone that I really genuinely like people and I'm genuinely very curious about people and.

Tamsen Fadal (10:41)

I have to imagine. Cause you're touching people all the time, and you're near them all the time, and you feel their energy all the time. That there's something about that that you can get people instantly.

Bobbi Brown (10:48)

Being a makeup artist, you know, I go to people's houses. You know, I did. I used to go to people's houses. They'd be coming out of the shower in their bathroom, their husband's home, their kids, their dogs, their chefs, their cooks, their chauffeurs. You know, I've seen it all.

Tamsen Fadal (11:02)

I know you have.

Bobbi Brown (11:03)

Yeah, I've seen it all.

Tamsen Fadal (11:04)

I love that about you, though. And I love the fact that every single day, you're still out there talking to real women. And I think that that's what makes you. And I also think that that's what really resonates now. I mean, it's not easy to cut through the noise. And you have done that yet again. So I want to ask you, you built one of the most iconic beauty companies in the world, and then you decided to sell it. Do you remember that moment? Do you remember that moment of making that decision?

Bobbi Brown (11:31)

I do. And we weren't looking to sell, but it was four and a half years after we started, four and a half years after we launched Bergdorf Goodman. And somehow in those four and a half years, we became the number one line in ber, Bergdorf and Niemann's. And then we got a phone call. Frederick Fichai called and said, leonard Lauder wants to meet you. And we said, huh, okay. So, you know, we went and had dinner with Leonard on his roof. And he said, you guys have done a phenomenal job. And he said to me, you remind me of my mother. And, you know, his mother was Este, for anyone that doesn't know that. And he ended up, you know, probably took about a year, but he ended up purchasing the company. But I stayed as a corporate employee for 22 years. After we sold the company, people didn't even know that it wasn't my company anymore. And I didn't act like it was. I literally thought I still owned the company for a good 20 years.

Tamsen Fadal (12:30)

A company with your name on it. So it had to feel like that all along.

Bobbi Brown (12:33)

No, A company with my name on it. A company that, you know, the products were based on, what I believed women needed what I believed. You know, women. I didn't care what your skin color was. There was a color for you. And, you know, we used to have meetings that, you know, they'd want us to discontinue the lower selling 5% of the products. And I always put my foot down. I said, I'm not getting rid of the dark colors. If you're not selling enough of them, go get more customers, you know, go, you know, I don't have enough women of color as customers. Go market to them. And it kind of never happened. But I never discontinued any of those colors.

Tamsen Fadal (13:13)

Did you see that early on in the business though, the need for inclusivity and what was not happening in the cosmetic space?

Bobbi Brown (13:19)

Well, I wasn't worried about wasn't happening in the cosmetic space, but I understand women and I understand people enough. And it wasn't like, oh, I should include everyone. No, a woman comes to the counter, there's gotta be a color for her.

Tamsen Fadal (13:32)

When you, you know, when you go back to the first company you started, I know that you were not allowed to use your name if you were starting anything else. Is that right? Can you explain that, what you did?

Bobbi Brown (13:42)

Well, when we sold the company, my husband called and said, you know, great news, it's all done, the deal's done. Except they want you to sign a 25 year non compete. And I never heard of that before. I'm like, I never even heard of a non compete. I'm like, I was gonna say. And then I was like 25 years, you know, I was 34 and I couldn't even count to 20, you know, plus 25. And I'm like, I'm gonna be in my 60s, I'm not going to work then. So no big deal, I'll sign it. Well, guess what? I left at 59 and a half. So I had four and a half years on my non compete before I was able to launch something in beauty. And I still don't own my name for cosmetics ever. Forever. Forever.

Tamsen Fadal (14:22)

That's all right. You have a new name. I mean, yeah, kind of.

Bobbi Brown (14:26)

I mean, you know what? I'm still Bobby Brown though. That's who I am as the person.

Tamsen Fadal (14:30)

Still Bobby.

Bobbi Brown (14:31)

Still Bobby.

Tamsen Fadal (14:32)

I was always wondering what that was like. I mean, I've talked to you before, I've interviewed you before, but I just, I don't think very many people, people have that kind of experience to be able to understand that.

Bobbi Brown (14:39)

Yeah, I mean, look, it goes with the territory. I knew what I was getting into. And also we have the Internet, so everybody knows that Bobby Brown is behind this. Not everyone, but a lot of people know.

Tamsen Fadal (14:53)

I think a lot of people, yeah.

Bobbi Brown (14:54)

A lot of people know.

Tamsen Fadal (14:54)

I think close to everyone.

Bobbi Brown (14:55)

There's still plenty of people that don't I mean, people DM me or write in and say, I went to the counter of Bloomini Dell's and they didn't have the miracle bomb. I'm like, I'm not with Bobbi Brown Cosmetics anymore. They're like, I don't understand.

Tamsen Fadal (15:09)

Because I think that could be. That's not what we would normally think. You'd think, like, you got. Well, you're still Bobby, and Bobby has something else now. So let's talk about how this transpired into Jones Road, because when you and I met, and I don't know if you remember this or not, but I'm gonna remind you in a minute, you were in between.

Bobbi Brown (15:28)

Right.

Tamsen Fadal (15:28)

We both went to Institute for Integrative Nutrition. And I was so excited because I had just. I think I had just signed up and you had just finished going there.

Bobbi Brown (15:42)

And I was promoting a brand that I had, an inside beauty brand, a wellness brand.

Tamsen Fadal (15:47)

Yes, you were.

Bobbi Brown (15:48)

Which, you know, didn't work, but yes, that's okay. It's totally okay.

Tamsen Fadal (15:52)

Because we all have all these different things that we start. Did you already know that Jones Road was the next thing?

Bobbi Brown (15:58)

I don't know if I did or if I did. I wasn't at liberty to talk about it.

Tamsen Fadal (16:03)

Okay.

Bobbi Brown (16:03)

So, you know, I was experimenting and playing, and what happened was. So when I left the, you know, the brand, I had four and a half years, you know, I went home and it was, you know, it was a little bit of a rough period, I'm not gonna lie. You know, there was the emotions of sadness, loss, anger, excitement. Because all of a sudden, I didn't have, you know, things on my calendar anymore, and fear. I mean, it was a very emotional time, but I needed something to do, so I started doing a bunch of projects and, you know, built a hotel with my husband, built a TV studio, an event studio, and then had this opportunity to create these inside out products.

Tamsen Fadal (16:49)

So I'm gonna show you something if it's okay, because this was the. It's nothing bad, but it was just something I thought about quite often after I did the interview with you. You know, every once in a while, you do, like, thousands of interviews, and then there's one that sticks with you. And I was at the time trying to figure out, you know, who I was. I was a news anchor. I wasn't sure, like, I liked what I was doing. But do you remember this? You teach women that it's okay to age and evolve, so you have to.

Bobbi Brown (17:17)

Just really just tell yourself to calm down. We are all the same you know, there's times where I look, I'm like, oh, my God, what happened? But, okay, it happened, and it's going to end. Guess what? In 10 years, I'm going to look back and say, I was so young. I looked better then. Really work on a couple things that I've never done before.

Tamsen Fadal (17:35)

What are they?

Bobbi Brown (17:36)

Meditating? I haven't done that yet. Did you do that yet? Sitting in a chair and reading a book in the middle of the afternoon. It's on my list. Nope. On my list. It's still on my list.

Tamsen Fadal (17:46)

So for listeners, I interviewed Bobby Brown when I was in television. It was 2018, and I was just so. I think I was just so mesmerized by really, you know, who you have been like. You know, I knew you by name. I didn't know you by person. Now I've been lucky enough to know you by person, but you were in the middle of those stages, and the message you had then is still the message you have now. And I think that that's a real beautiful thing about you. So when you talk about being authentic, you're really authentic. Like, you proved it to me over and over and over again and right away.

Bobbi Brown (18:21)

And by the way, some of my earliest interviews, even though I was only in my 30s, I sound exactly the same.

Tamsen Fadal (18:27)

You do?

Bobbi Brown (18:27)

Oh, my God. I say the same. Yeah, I just talk about, you know, it's important to use makeup to just feel good about yourself. It's important to eat healthy. I mean, I've been very, very consistent.

Tamsen Fadal (18:38)

I found it last night, and I was like, I've got to show for this. It was from 2018, and you were. And so I didn't know. So I don't think that Jones Road was.

Bobbi Brown (18:45)

No, it wasn't a concept. No. Because I left in 17.

Tamsen Fadal (18:48)

Okay. So that was 18.

Bobbi Brown (18:50)

Right.

Tamsen Fadal (18:54)

This show is sponsored by Jones Road Beauty. I'll be honest, finding makeup that actually works for my skin and my schedule has been a struggle for years. It either feels too heavy, too complicated, or just doesn't feel like me. But then I found Jones Road Beauty, and everything changed. Jones Road Beauty was created by legendary makeup artist Bobbi Brown. And let me tell you, she knows what women really want when it comes to makeup. Her goal, Products that are clean, easy to use, and actually work. This line is all about minimalist makeup that simplifies our routines so you look fresh, feel confident, and you can get out the door without 10 complicated steps. The kind of products that actually enhance your skin instead of covering it up. And their miracle balm. I'm obsessed. It gives me that fresh, healthy glow like I just got back from a walk outside. Not like I spent 30 minutes in front of the mirror piling it on. This, though, may be my favorite part. It's a makeup skincare hybrid that I use as a tint, a blush, a highlighter, sometimes even on my lips. It replaces half my bag, takes seconds to apply and makes me feel like me. Their just enough tinted moisturizer is just that lightweight, soft coverage, no cakey feel, and smooths everything out while letting my skin breathe. Modern day makeup that's clean, strategic and multifunctional for effortless routines. For a limited time, our listeners are getting a free cool gloss on their first purchase when they use Code Tamsen at checkout. Just head to Jonesroadbeauty.com and use code Tamson at checkout. After you purchase, they'll ask you where you heard about them. Please support our show and tell them our show sent you Taking on a.

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Tamsen Fadal (21:06)

So Jones Road, let's talk about how that came about and what you were doing. So I know you went through some I can't imagine, but you went through some difficult times. What is that kind of grief like? Was it grief because you were leaving something behind that you'd had for so long? Or was it fear of not knowing what's next and knowing you still had some excitement about wanting to do something? Or were you not even that far along yet?

Bobbi Brown (21:29)

You know, when I ended my relationship with the corporation, it happened really suddenly. And it wasn't me that said, okay guys, I'm finally done. I mean, it was them that pulled the plug. So that's rejection no matter what. So you feel bad and you feel like a loser and then you start and then I really didn't talk to anyone that was on my team. This was my posse. I wasn't at liberty to talk to them and they were told not to talk to me. And it was tough. That was a really hard period. And so I really took two days off.

Tamsen Fadal (22:06)

Two days.

Bobbi Brown (22:06)

I took two days off. And then I'm like, okay, this isn't working for me. I gotta go do something. I would just go in the city. I'd make people I'd never had time to see because I was on a treadmill of obligations. And I was able to have lunch with people, have breakfast with people, and in between, walk around and go into stores and touch things and see some of the new makeups that was out in the market. It was a really cool time. And then come home and try to figure out a few things, and I started doing projects. One of those breakfasts was with a friend of mine who I really liked, who owned Lord and Taylor. And he said, why don't you come work with me? And I said, okay. And he says, why don't we do the just Bobby shops at Lord and Taylor? So I got to pull a team together and I had something to do. You know, I always need creative projects, like, whatever it is. I just like to create.

Tamsen Fadal (23:01)

When you say I felt like a failure, I felt like a. You know, I think we can all understand that. It's hard for me to understand you feeling like that. You know, we look at somebody like you and go, how could you ever feel like that with everything that you've accomplished? But we all feel that way. And I think that's really important to just talk about for a minute. What do you do with that? Is it just that you kept. You had to keep moving at some point and say, like, I'm gonna take my time to grieve, to feel badly, to feel confused, maybe by rejection. Cause rejection, I think is confusing too, along with grief. And then say, I have to keep going.

Bobbi Brown (23:35)

Well, I'm really lucky because I have this incredible husband that he just listened. He listened until he was like, I need a break. You know, which he did. He often said, I need a break. But I had to talk about stuff a lot. I didn't go into therapy. I just. I wasn't in therapy and didn't feel like doing it. But I ended up going to see my chiropractor. Now my chiropractor is this incredible guy who does emotional release techniques. It was really helpful, Dr. Jeff and Montclair. Really helpful. Got a lot of, like, a negative emotion, you know, what are you feeling? Where is it? Where there is tapping. There was releasing. And, you know, I'm not that woo woo. But it really works. I still see Dr. Jeff every week.

Tamsen Fadal (24:19)

Do you really? Oh, wow.

Bobbi Brown (24:21)

I Still see him every week. And, you know, he's a chiropractor, so he works on all sorts of things. So that was helpful. And then I had a very. Another dear friend who called me up. He was my yoga instructor. He said, can I come over? And I said, sure. And he said, I'm a life coach now. I have my degree, and I would like to give you a session. And I'm like, what's a life coach? I had no idea. I'm like, why do I need a life coach? Came over and we talked. And then he said, I'm going to give you another session. And he just said, how are you feeling? What are you going through? And it was about work, but it was also about things that I was frustrated in my house. And I remember saying, every room I walk into, there's something that's bothering me. It's a mess or a project. And he said, okay, this is your assignment this week. Walk around the house, take a picture of every eyesore. What's bothering you and send it to me. I said, okay. I did that. Next week, he came back with printed pictures of all of those things and a Sharpie. He said, now sit down and circle and tell me what's bothering you. So I would do it. And then he took it, and he said, okay, we're gonna go through these. He said, okay, your couch, where it's torn, this is where you call to get someone to come in and repair it. He gave me the phone number and address. And he said, see how it's all mushed up? That, like, it was a. I'll never buy a down couch again. It was a down couch. And I said, you know, it's just not firm anymore. It always looks messy. He said, yeah, do me a favor. Tell me what you have been doing on that couch. I was like, my kids, their friends, they jump. They were out of the house. He said, look at that couch with love. That couch is pure love to you. And I started looking at it differently. And then, you know, little by little, some of my things went away. And then we talked about, okay, what are you thinking about for work? What are you doing? And we would just talk about it, and he would help me prioritize. And, you know, it was a really great experience.

Tamsen Fadal (26:15)

It gave you clarity.

Bobbi Brown (26:16)

I guess it gave me clarity. Cause that's the thing that bothers me most when I'm like, when I don't know what to do and I can't make a decision like that makes me feel stuck. And I don't like to feel stuck.

Tamsen Fadal (26:27)

Well, I don't think you're stuck at all. At all. All right. So that was during that time in between. And then tell me how you got to Jones Road.

Bobbi Brown (26:37)

So my projects were a combination of Lord and Taylor. Just Bobby Shop. I started hiring a small team. One of them is sitting right there. She was one of my first employees. And I got an assistant from the Apple store. I hired someone right out of the Apple Store, and I started just kind of figuring things out. And one of the girls said, you gotta meet my friend that's a vitamin manufacturer. So I had to go in, met him, pitched him. Turns out he wanted to do a line of products with me. That's why I was sitting on your couch to talk about evolution 18. We launched it at Walmart. I worked on that pretty hard. And then I started just randomly getting calls. I missed being a makeup artist. So we started doing our own shoots. And one day I got a call from the Indian makeup show. They wanted me to go to India and be the keynote speaker of two different makeup shows. So I was building a kit together, and I didn't want to use Bobby Brown. I never used it since the day I left the company. And I started buying other things and calling other companies, and I just didn't find things that I loved. I just thought there was something wrong with everything. And I just said, you know what? I wonder what's out there. And I found a chemistry, and I told them what I wanted. And this jar came, and I stuck my hand in it. It wasn't what I wanted, but I stuck my hand in it anyways. And I went like this, and I said, oh, my God, look at my face. I said, this is a miracle. And that's how Miracle Bomb was born.

Tamsen Fadal (28:17)

Oh, my gosh.

Bobbi Brown (28:18)

Yeah. Yeah.

Tamsen Fadal (28:20)

What a difference from how you started your first company to here. I mean, I think I feel like with. With Jones Road, and these are my words, but tell me what you think is that it all came about like it flowed differently. Did it flow differently of how you started the products and the line and your thought process? Was all of that very, very different from the first time around?

Bobbi Brown (28:41)

Not really. In the beginning. In the very beginning. So before Estee Lauder bought us, before we were in Bergdorf, before we were a real company, I was selling lipsticks out of my house. I was a new mom. I was still a makeup artist going to New York. I lived in New Jersey, and I just started selling things out of my house. So I had about a year of that maybe a year and a half, you know, my husband would mail the things to people.

Tamsen Fadal (29:04)

He's such a good sport.

Bobbi Brown (29:05)

He's a very good. He was in law school because the real estate market crashed. And, you know, my husband is a dynamo. He really is. But he's a really, you know, we can do anything kind of guy.

Tamsen Fadal (29:17)

I love that, though.

Bobbi Brown (29:18)

Yeah.

Tamsen Fadal (29:18)

I mean, you're a we can do anything kind of girl.

Bobbi Brown (29:20)

Gotta tell you, I am, yes. And I have, you know, he's my enabler.

Tamsen Fadal (29:24)

What made you wanna popularize the no makeup makeup look?

Bobbi Brown (29:29)

I didn't wanna popularize it. It just got popular.

Tamsen Fadal (29:31)

What made you. Well, what made you think it was important?

Bobbi Brown (29:34)

Well, because I really tried to conform to the makeup that was happening in the 80s, and I just thought it looked terrible. And I didn't think I was very talented. You know, I was not a painter of the face. And every time I would do someone's makeup, I just. I couldn't really get the hang of it. I didn't think they looked good.

Tamsen Fadal (29:53)

You felt like they were overdone.

Bobbi Brown (29:55)

Yeah. It didn't look like skin. And I couldn't really paint to correct their noses. I couldn't. I just couldn't. And I started doing makeup my way, and it ended up on a cover of an Italian magazine. And then people were like, wow, this is nice. And then people that liked that look started hiring me more. And eventually I got to work with some of the biggest, best photographers from Bruce Weber, who actually taught me how to do makeup without realizing it. So I had this very light hand and I did makeup that I thought the girls looked beautiful. And he came in and he said, bobby, it's really pretty, but can you wash your face? And I said, okay. He said, look at her face. And he pinched her cheeks and pinched the lips and said, that's what I want her to look like. I said, oh. So I went back in the makeup room, I mixed my things and I blotted them, and then I took it off and I'm like, I see that, right? So I really started looking at people's natural coloring and then using makeup to kind of get that look. And it caught on.

Tamsen Fadal (30:59)

In a big way.

Bobbi Brown (31:00)

Yeah, in a big way. And by the way, I did Fashion Week. So I took that look, and then I would work with the designers vision and make them whatever God, you know, that they had in their heads, which were often very crazy.

Tamsen Fadal (31:13)

How important was it to trust yourself?

Bobbi Brown (31:15)

Trusting your gut is one thing, but just I've always kind of tried to do things that I thought were the right things, you know, things I was more comfortable with. I mean, but every day of my life, you know, like, I remember being on Oprah once, and the producer, you know, I used to go on Oprah a lot, and. And the producer wanted, like, this big, crazy reveal and wanted me to do this over the top makeup thing. And I'm like, she doesn't look very good. You know, can't we just do it with the clothes? Like it, you know, so. And, you know, my team was like, are you not doing what they want? And, no, I didn't want to make her look ridiculous.

Tamsen Fadal (31:51)

You went on Oprah a lot? The Today Show a lot.

Bobbi Brown (31:53)

I was the beauty editor of the Today show for 14 years. Yeah. Because I met this really nice lady at a book signing, and she told me that she was a big fan. And she asked me, you know, she said, I saw you on the Today Show. I'd been on once. She said, is there anything else you'd want to do? I said, I'd like to be a regular on the Today Show. It popped into my head. She said, honey, Jeff Zucker's my grandson.

Tamsen Fadal (32:17)

Oh, gosh.

Bobbi Brown (32:18)

And so Grandma Fran got me on the Today Show.

Tamsen Fadal (32:22)

It's all about putting out what you really want.

Bobbi Brown (32:24)

It is.

Tamsen Fadal (32:25)

Or what you don't even know you want, I guess. Yeah.

Bobbi Brown (32:27)

And then when the Today show, after 14 years, said, you know, we're going in a different direction, I was crushed. And I started thinking. And then I called my friend Elvis Duran. I said, can I be the beauty editor of your show? He said, okay, you're the beauty editor of the show. So at least I had another purpose.

Tamsen Fadal (32:42)

Is there one beauty myth or makeup myth you wish would just go away?

Bobbi Brown (32:46)

I don't like contour. I mean, I just don't like contour.

Tamsen Fadal (32:48)

You don't?

Bobbi Brown (32:49)

Oh, my God. Why do you have to contour your face?

Tamsen Fadal (32:52)

Hard contour, or just put blush, and that's the end of it?

Bobbi Brown (32:54)

I like enhancing and brightening and luminizing. I don't like trying to change the shape of something.

Tamsen Fadal (33:03)

You're saying contour everywhere, all these things everywhere.

Bobbi Brown (33:05)

Okay. Yes. I'm not a big fan of contour.

Tamsen Fadal (33:07)

Because that's not what you would really look like. That's not where your color would actually be.

Bobbi Brown (33:10)

Right, right. Yes. I take a much more natural approach, and I kind of enhance instead of take away. And I also think it's really bad for girls self esteem.

Tamsen Fadal (33:20)

Yeah, let's talk about that. Because I think that a Lot of people think makeup and they think like, the more, better, more is better, less is worse, you know, and that's not the approach. Talk about self esteem with that. Because a lot of young girls are, you know, watching. They're watching and they're. And they pick it up. And we don't even know what they pick up. They pick it up much younger. Now, obviously with social media, I mean.

Bobbi Brown (33:40)

I think it's really complicated because there's a lot of things on social media that, you know, make you feel bad, you know, from taller people, skinnier people, prettier people, and, you know, there's a lot of ridiculousness also. There's great stuff out there too. So it's, you know, I don't have daughters. I have three sons. But I can imagine if I had girls, you know, it would have been a tough raising them in this social media where my boys didn't have that issue. But, you know, I think anyone that does have daughters, the important thing is to not make them feel bad about who they are.

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Tamsen Fadal (34:52)

Mark, who writes, I just want to thank you for making GLP1s affordable. What would have been over $1,000 a month is just $99 a month with mochi. Money shouldn't be a barrier to healthy weight. Three months in and I have smaller jeans and a bigger wallet. You're the best. Thanks, Mark. I'm Mayra Ahmed, founder of Most. To find your mochi moment, visit joinmochi.com Mark is a Mochi member compensated for his story? Why did you decide this was a book you needed to write now? Because I don't think you've ever really told your story like you've told it in here. I mean, this is every part of it, but, you know, it's layers in a lot of the backstories and a lot of the reasons why you want the truth.

Bobbi Brown (35:38)

Yeah, I never thought about writing a memoir, really. And a friend of a friend said, can I send my friend who's an agent to come see you? Cause she wants to do your Book. And I wanted to do another makeup book, so I said, sure. And she came in, she says, I want to do your book, and I want to do a memoir. I said, I don't want to write a memoir. I mean, I'm not that interesting, you know. And she goes, you have so much to teach and so much to tell. And she said, what I see of you on social media helps me in my life, what I've read about you. And I think, you know, look, she's in the business of doing books, and she basically got me a really good book deal. So I said, all right, I'll write my story, right? But I'm sorry, my story is a memoir. I mean, that's what your story is, right?

Tamsen Fadal (36:24)

If there's a listener you want to talk to and this listener reads a book, is there something you want them to take away from? Because I think that most people would come to you and say. Or come to the book and say, like, I want to learn. I'm going to learn something. And I do really think they're a ton of lessons.

Bobbi Brown (36:37)

Yeah, there's a lot of.

Tamsen Fadal (36:37)

It's not a. I mean, it's a memoir, but it's a book about lessons.

Bobbi Brown (36:41)

I mean, I'm a teacher, I can't help it. But, you know, and I like sharing my experiences to help other people. But I think there's different. Audiences will get different things. I think younger Girls in their 20s and 30s will see it as a blueprint for their life. Oh, that's how she did it. Oh, I could do that. Oh. And I think, you know, a lot of women that are trying to figure out reinvention or what they're doing or their stuff, you know, I had a very well known writer interview me recently. She's in her 70s, and she said this book really was what she needed at this time. She said, because I've been trying to figure out what my next. And I don't know, but I know it doesn't matter. I'll figure it out. So I was happy about that.

Tamsen Fadal (37:27)

It's incredible. But I mean, that makes all the difference in the world. I think it's sometimes those words. So I want to read one. Or maybe I'll have you read it, but. But you probably can see it better than me. But I just think right here, you know, I was gonna say, what do you wanna tell your younger self? And then I read that right at the end and I went, okay.

Bobbi Brown (37:42)

I wanted to go back in time and tell those younger bobbies and all the Girls to stay true to yourselves, to stay true to themselves and their vision and their belief in real beauty and to know that things will work out. Trust me, they really will.

Tamsen Fadal (37:57)

I just think that those are like the words that young women need to hear now. Yeah, you've changed women's lives when it comes to makeup in midlife. And you make sure that your models represent that. And what made you know that that was what you had to do. Is it because that's where you were? Is it because you understood that there was such a lack in the market of people talking to us?

Bobbi Brown (38:18)

You know, I've always known about diversity from age to skin color, and I always want to represent everybody. So, you know, I looked at, it was hard to find a woman of a certain age who didn't look like she was full of plastic surgery. It wasn't easy. I was in the Hamptons. It wasn't easy. But I found this amazing woman and she was one of my first women of a certain age. And then people were just so excited. I just kept doing more. I represented not just women of a certain age, but, but all women and just women of a certain age were just thrilled to be able to look at these, you know, vibrant women that are not over made up, but they just look cool and great wearing, you know, great jeans and, you know, a nice blazer, great makeup, but also they're styled in a cool way. They don't look like 50 year old women or, you know, 60 year old women.

Tamsen Fadal (39:16)

Bobbi, I just think you're such a gem. I really do. Thank you so much. Thanks for taking the time to do this. I know you've had a busy day and I appreciate it.

Bobbi Brown (39:23)

Thank you.

Tamsen Fadal (39:23)

And on behalf of all the women of all age, guys, thanks so much for being here for this episode of the Tamsen Show. Bobbi's new book, Still Bobbi, is out now and I can't recommend it enough because like she said, there's people that are gonna get a blueprint, you're gonna get advice, you're gonna hear her story and understand maybe where you are and where you wanna go, there's tools. And it's also this reminder that it is never too late to begin again. You can grab your copy right now. The link is in the show notes and make sure and follow the Tamson show across social for more and I'll see you for the next time episode. Hey everybody, I want you to know today's episode was sponsored by Midi Health. If you're ready to feel your best and write that second act script. Visit join Midi.com today to book your personalized insurance covered virtual Visit. That's join MIDI.com MIDI the care that women deserve.