Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (3:05)

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Tamsen (3:07)

DSW has what you need, but more importantly, they have what you didn't even know you wanted.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (3:13)

You never know what you'll find at dsw. Find the shoes that get you at.

Tamsen (3:17)

Prices that get your budget at DSW stores or dsw.com Gabrielle, I am so excited you're here.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (3:28)

It's great to see you again.

Tamsen (3:29)

I follow you. We've met each other several times now. I consider you a friend. Yes. And I've been wanting to have you on the podcast forever because I really am such a fan of your work. I loved your first book, but the fact that you have a playbook now, why did you decide to do a playbook like this?

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (3:48)

I've been thinking a lot about what inspires people to action and people don't act when they're interested, but real action definitely comes from a combination of inspiration and education. And the goal of the playbook is to give people a field manual of exactly what to eat, how to move, how to think, how to recover, how to create a life that really ultimately works for them. And the ultimate goal is together we can make everybody stronger.

Tamsen (4:27)

When I first saw it, I was like, oh my gosh, I'm gonna bring this with me to the kitchen, it's gonna go to the gym, it's gonna go by the bedside. Like, I actually think this is gonna be something that people carry with them. A lot of times we read a book, we put it down, we have the audio, but this is something that's gonn and breathing, I really believe part of your life.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (4:46)

I'm really grateful in that that actually is the goal of the book. I spend a lot of time, myself and my team thinking about the visuals that go into this book. Again, this is a thicker paper book. It has photos, it has visuals so people can embrace really the content. And to do it In a different way. We've all written or not written, but we've all read textbook type stuff. And for some people that's great, but for other people, show me a great visual on what to eat, how to move. They even copied my tattoos, which is so cool.

Tamsen (5:20)

Yeah, I love that.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (5:21)

And even how to think. You know, there's a lot of noise out there. And one of my core fundamental beliefs is discernment.

Tamsen (5:28)

Yeah, you've taught me that. You've taught me that through conversations we've had. And I'm always. I'm grateful for it because not a lot of people are have those conversations. I mean, those are layers deep, you know, And I think it's so important. I wanna ask you to start by speaking to my listeners, because you said it yourself, we're all kind of overwhelmed. Right? There's a lot of noise. There's a lot going on right now. What do you want the woman to know that is hearing all this and saying like, oh my gosh, every day I wake up and there's something new and I am so confused.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (5:58)

It's not their fault. As humans, we're designed to chase novelty. And, you know, as I was thinking about coming to this podcast, think about the 1920s. There was the Lucky diet. Do you remember what that is? And I don't know if that was exactly the 1920s, right before then there was the wine and egg diet. Had you heard of that?

Tamsen (6:18)

I didn't even know about that.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (6:19)

Wine and egg. It was egg.

Tamsen (6:21)

What is that? Egg?

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (6:22)

Wine, three times a day.

Tamsen (6:23)

Are you kidding me?

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (6:24)

No, no.

Tamsen (6:25)

Oh, my gosh.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (6:26)

In fact, I might know people that still do that. We as women have been chasing novelty forever.

Tamsen (6:32)

Yeah.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (6:32)

There is a real opportunity now to double down on true innovation. We are at a space that we have scientific knowledge that we don't need to chase novelty anymore. We have to double down on innovation. And what does that mean? Number one, it's not your fault. You are a human being and you are chasing novelty. What's that joke? Squirrel. Squirrel with the dog.

Tamsen (6:56)

Yeah.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (6:58)

We know that muscle is the organ of longevity. Nothing is more important for a woman than skeletal muscle. As she ages. That's it. There are very clear ways in which she can build and maintain it. And that is fundamental science. When we reframe the way that a woman thinks about nutrition and her body and training, then she'll be less distracted and more discerning of all the information coming in.

Tamsen (7:27)

You know, it's funny, when I first heard you say muscle longevity, it stopped me in my tracks. Can you explain what that is and what it means?

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (7:34)

Yeah. You know, muscle is always thought about in the bro sphere.

Tamsen (7:38)

Yeah. Like this.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (7:38)

Exactly. Well, you are kind of jazz.

Tamsen (7:40)

Oh, thank you. Oh, my gosh. To hear you say that to me makes me very happy.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (7:44)

But for the longest time, skeletal muscle has always been in the bro sphere. It's been about being jacked in tan and maybe wearing a skinny tank. And you, you walk into a gym here and I mean, maybe now it's changing. But women are on the cardio machines.

Tamsen (7:58)

Yep. Always. Always.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (7:59)

And the guys have no trouble being in the weight room, lifting weights, throwing weights around, grunting. Yep.

Tamsen (8:06)

Right.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (8:07)

May or may not use deodorant. Absolutely.

Tamsen (8:08)

Yep. May or may not.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (8:10)

When a woman sees her 40 pound toddler and she goes to pick up her toddler, she doesn't think twice. When a woman walks into that weight room and sees that 40 pound kettlebell, she may or may not pick it up.

Tamsen (8:25)

Why is that? Why are we. Why is that? What's the difference there?

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (8:27)

We have to reframe what we believe our physical bodies are capable of doing. The days of salad and leotards are over.

Tamsen (8:37)

I haven't heard that word in such a long time.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (8:39)

They're over.

Tamsen (8:40)

Do you think it's that we were always told, like, oh, you don't want to lift weights because you're going to bulk up.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (8:45)

Absolutely. And you said something, and I just want to pause on it because I think it's really important. There is a culture of the women are eating salad and doing their cardio and the guys are lifting weights. My mission is not about protein and it's not about muscle. It's about a cultural shift of creating stronger, more resilient people. And that's what this is really about. It's cloaked in protein and muscle and medicine. Great. But at the end of the day, we have a real opportunity for a true cultural shift for women and people to come into what they believe their power is. And we are absolutely there.

Tamsen (9:28)

What is the first step that you want somebody to take? Because, you know, even when I was thinking about it and I was like, you know, there's a lot of women that tell me even now, like, I've never lifted a weight before. So if you've got. If it's not true, you're right, it's not true.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (9:44)

Do you have toddlers?

Tamsen (9:44)

Yeah. Yeah.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (9:45)

Do you lift your son's case?

Tamsen (9:46)

You're right.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (9:47)

Are you lifting your groceries?

Tamsen (9:48)

It's the gym concept of it or the traditional weight concept. But you're right. They're lifting.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (9:52)

Okay, we'll start with the top two reasons why a woman is going to have reservations of this conversation. Number one, if I lift weights, I'm going to look bulky. And number two, I'm too old to start, and I've never lifted weights. Number one, I'm still trying to get bulky. I've been lifting for 30 years. It's not going to happen.

Tamsen (10:11)

Nope.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (10:12)

It is so difficult to put on muscle. That's just false. And to address the second reason why women are very resistant is because they've never done it. That is absolutely not true. You have lifted weights your entire life. Let's double down. Let's get that structured, and let's get in there and just lift it a little differently.

Tamsen (10:39)

How do you get them from there, regular life of lifting to now say, okay, I'm gonna do it a little bit differently.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (10:45)

We're gonna layer in a couple of mindset tricks, because, listen, I could provide the best diet and exercise plan, but if you can't connect the dots, it's not gonna happen.

Tamsen (10:55)

Okay.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (10:55)

Okay. So again, and then we're gonna jump into the science. The first question you have to ask yourself is, why does it matter? For me, I want to be able to age well and be strong and do whatever it is that I want to do. I know that skeletal muscle is important. It's also important from a metabolic perspective. Anyone that has seen a parent or grandparent with Alzheimer's, many of those diseases are type 3 diabetes of the brain or roots in skeletal muscle. So I'm going to say this again. We are looking to fix heart disease, which is the number one killer in women. Heart disease, Alzheimer's, obesity, diabetes, those are symptoms in part of unhealthy skeletal muscle first.

Tamsen (11:49)

We don't think of it like that, though.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (11:50)

No, we don't.

Tamsen (11:51)

So if somebody says, like, I want to be healthier, I want to age well, when you say the words age well, you're talking about these areas that.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (11:58)

We'Re all so afraid of, preventing chronic disease that begins in skeletal muscle decades earlier. And, hey, let's say you didn't start decades earlier. It's never too late. You can always affect the health of your skeletal muscle. Okay, so you haven't bought in to the fact that maybe you're not driven by Alzheimer's, cardiovascular disease, diabetes, or obesity. Okay, you're like, gabrielle, you know what? I don't care so much about that. I would say, well, come on, you should. But let's say you don't if you want to not require physical assistance. Okay? Nobody wants to live in a. No offense. I don't think so. You want to have independence, care about independence, then you have to start now.

Tamsen (12:44)

What does that allow you to do in the future?

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (12:46)

Go to the bathroom by yourself, Walk by yourself without a walker, Go to the grocery, do all of the activities of daily living that allow for independence.

Tamsen (12:57)

If you're not sold by the other world, you better be sold by that.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (13:00)

All right, now, how about this? Let's take it one step further. Let's just hit it from all domains.

Tamsen (13:04)

While we're at it. We should. Because I do think that somebody's gonna hear it differently. One person doesn't want to be dealing with being dependent right when they're getting older and another person says, listen, heart disease runs my family. I'm petrified of it right now.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (13:19)

So I did geriatrics, I trained in geriatrics, I did my fellowship at WashU, and I did a combined clinical fellowship, meaning I did nutritional sciences and I did clinical research as well as geriatrics. And that is end of life care over the age of 65. Memory and aging now. One of the biggest things that I've heard at the end of life, this is heavy. It's regret. Regret for the things that they didn't try, regret for the actions that they didn't take. And personally, I don't want anyone to have those kinds of regrets. And in our society, we see older individuals and end of life is over here, and we kind of ignore that. The end is coming for all of us, and it's how we live in the middle. So if you want to be strong and powerful, the lever that you pull is not first, the mental lever. Okay, what do I mean by that? In order to build resilience, it's much easier to pull the physical lever. And that's muscle. You leverage skeletal muscle to build physical resilience. That translates over to mental resilience. And ultimately there is a bi directional relationship between the mental and the physical, which allows you to chase your goals, which allows you to show up as the best wife and sister and mother.

Tamsen (15:01)

And we're doing it the opposite way.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (15:03)

And we're doing it the opposite way.

Tamsen (15:04)

We're trying to get it mental, mentally right first to get us to the gym, to be able to do all the things.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (15:09)

It's never going to happen that way.

Tamsen (15:10)

It's never going to happen that way. I have to ask you something. Going back to, you know, your study of geriatrics is that what it's called. So study of geriatrics. You, you were young, doing that, right? Was that, was that like the very beginning of your career?

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (15:22)

I actually have a long medical care.

Tamsen (15:25)

I know, I remember hearing it.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (15:27)

I did two years of psychiatry.

Tamsen (15:28)

Okay.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (15:29)

And then I did three years of family medicine, and then I did two years of geriatrics and nutritional sciences.

Tamsen (15:35)

Did the geriatrics change everything about what your core belief system of how you live today, Everything.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (15:42)

It was probably the most painful medical training experience that I ever have had.

Tamsen (15:47)

Why?

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (15:48)

Because you face your mortality.

Tamsen (15:50)

You are aware of that constantly.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (15:52)

And I'm still aware of it constantly. It took me years to get over that, to really. You know, it's interesting because as a physician, you would think that there is just a discrete separation between what you're seeing in your clinic and then what you're experiencing as a human. While I took care of people that were aging, they're, you know, when you're doing palliative care and there happens to be an 18 year old girl with cystic fibrosis who's planning the wedding that she's never gonna be able to be at, it changes you. Of course, I can't imagine our mutual friend Teresa DiPisquale. And that is actually the reason I'm sitting in this chair. I had finished that training and gone to work in private practice here, actually on fifth Avenue. I'd opened or taken over a private practice and I was not on social media at all. And I started seeing all of this misinformation come out about how red meat caused cancer and how the way to do it was to be on a vegan plant based diet. And I had just finished two years of sitting at the bedside of dying patients. I felt a responsibility to do something about it, to say something about it. And that is actually what pushed me to even get on social media and to speak.

Tamsen (17:21)

Were you a vegetarian or vegan ever? Did you tell me that?

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (17:24)

Did you know that? Yeah, I was.

Tamsen (17:25)

I think you told me that. We spoke at a panel together a few months ago in New York City.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (17:29)

Where were we? We were at a steakhouse.

Tamsen (17:31)

We were at a steakhouse. And I remember that was a great time.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (17:35)

Shout out to Pilar.

Tamsen (17:36)

It was so fun. It was a great time. Oprah Daly put this together. And yeah, Pilar was just incredible how she hosted that panel. And I remember you saying that. And I went, what? I've got to find out about this. I felt like there's layers of you, you know, and that brings us kind of to the next place. And I don't want to go off this because I do want to say one thing. You know, my mother got sick with breast cancer. And most listeners know this when I was 14. And I watched her through the years, you know, get a little bit better, get a little bit worse, have a reoccurrence. And she died the day after Christmas when I was 20 years old. And so that mortality, I really under. Like I looked in the face for a very long time. I didn't do with it, obviously, what. What you did, but I think it's always given me a clear, clear awareness that it's all temporary. Right. And that you better do exactly what you want to do now. And I don't mean in a frivolous way, but I mean in a healthy, take care of yourself way, because you just don't know. Well, thank you for sharing that, because I think that that was. That's a really important part of your past. And I think that I wanted people to know.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (18:43)

I know that because it makes me really mission driven.

Tamsen (18:46)

Yeah.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (18:47)

Because of seeing that, I do believe that we have the opportunity to shift to a very culturally strong and robust entity as humans collectively. Really, this is not about. And I have an ethos in the book, a forever strong ethos, that aging is inevitable, but weakness is a choice, and so is strength.

Tamsen (19:10)

And it can start at any age.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (19:12)

And we have data to support that. You can build muscle and change your metabolic outcome. And by metabolic outcome, I mean insulin, glucose, triglycerides, all of these markers of metabolic syndrome. We can change it at any age.

Tamsen (19:27)

All the ones that we go into a doctor's office in midlife, often all of a sudden, say, I never had high cholesterol. What's going on with me? I have no idea. Where did all this come from? So all of that can be traced back to exactly what we're talking about.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (19:40)

Much of that. There are hormone changes that also can affect lipid profiles. But one thing is for sure, you have to have healthy skin skeletal muscle to deal with these things. I mean, it really is at the focal point, skeletal muscle. Muscle is the organ of longevity. And you asked me, was I vegan and vegetarian? I was.

Tamsen (19:58)

Yeah, I want to talk about that because I think that, you know, protein is such a big conversation right now. So you were vegan? Vegetarian for years. And what happened?

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (20:06)

Well, I spent my entire twenties focused on how I could improve my nutrition. I trained in nutritional sciences as an undergraduate, but I was obsessed with nutritional sciences. I was eating with the seasons. I was you know, I was like, was it under the moonlight? And I'm a very evidence based person, which is hysterical. I may or may not like an essential oil occasionally, but. And I wasted so much time and spent so much of my brain power trying to construct a diet that supported me and I was training pretty heavily.

Tamsen (20:42)

How are you doing that? How are you training heavily like that?

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (20:45)

And, and vegan, Vegan or vegetarian, probably like a lot of young women became amenorrheic. I was over training again. There is more education surrounding how to take a vegetarian and vegan diet and improve it. And listen, I'm all for it if that's what you want to do. The majority of people by the time they're hitting midlife, you do not see as many vegan or vegetarians. It's typically, if you were to look at the data, it's typically younger women that are really interested. And following this game plan, my hair fell out, I became anemic, my teeth got loose. I just was not able to support my body in training.

Tamsen (21:30)

This show is sponsored by MIDI Health. I remember it sitting in the doctor's office, listing off everything I was feeling. Exhaustion, brain fog, mood swings, sleep, all of it. And getting nothing but a vague smile. And this is just part of getting older. No test, no plan, just a brush off. And I thought, is this really it? If you're in midlife and feeling dismissed or unheard, I want you to know you're not imagining it and you're definitely not alone. 75% of women who seek care for perimenopause or menopause symptoms, they walk away untreated. That is outrageous to me and it's why I'm so grateful. Mitty exists and MIDI is a virtual clinic built specifically for women in midlife by experts who actually get it. They're the only women's telehealth platform covered by major insurance. So it's not just high quality, it's accessible. What I love most, their clinicians listen one on one, face to face. They take the time to understand what you need and create a plan that works. This is the care we have been waiting for. Go to joinmini.com tamsin and finally feel seen. Ready to feel your best and write your second act script. Visit joinmitty.comtamsent today to book your personalized insurance covered visit. That's joinmitty.comtamsen Midi the care women deserve. This is a Monday.comad the same Monday.com helping people worldwide, getting work done faster and better. The same Monday.com designed for every team and every industry.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (23:00)

The same Monday.com with the built in.

Tamsen (23:02)

AI, scaling your work from day one.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (23:05)

The same Monday.com that your team will actually love. Using the same Monday.com with an easy and intuitive setup. Go to Monday.com and try it for free.

Tamsen (23:16)

Yes, the same Monday.com everywhere you look right now. Every article that comes out, every, every time you flip through Social. Eat more protein all the time.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (23:28)

Which by the way, I'm a little grateful for because I started talking about this, I started studying this 20 years ago.

Tamsen (23:36)

So tell me what to do to get enough protein where we feel like we're not tearing our bodies apart.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (23:41)

I love it. Let's talk about what the data shows and how much protein women on average are eating. Okay, that number is between 60 and 70 grams. 60 to 70 grams of protein, what does that mean from a visual perspective? You and I went to a steakhouse. It was so much fun. Let's say you have a five ounce steak, for example. We'll say if it's a lean steak, there's about eight grams of protein per ounce.

Tamsen (24:08)

Okay, so about 40. That's right, right.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (24:11)

Five ounce steak is about 40 grams.

Tamsen (24:13)

Okay, that's one thing.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (24:16)

That's a, I don't know. Let's say you're gonna have more than 5 ounces. Maybe it's an 8 ounce steak. You've pretty much hit the amount of protein that women are eating.

Tamsen (24:25)

Okay. In a day.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (24:26)

In a day.

Tamsen (24:27)

Right.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (24:27)

That's not that much. Now when we think about what the body needs. And again, that was just the visual. 60 to 70 grams.

Tamsen (24:37)

No, I think it's important because I think, you know, we hear calories, we hear grams. It's so confusing.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (24:42)

Nobody's counting calories. If you have a protein shake, that's about 20. But on average, according to the NHANES data set, which is the largest data set that we have, women are eating between 60 and 70 grams of protein. You will hear that we are eating too much protein. Well, I mean, I don't know. Have you heard that?

Tamsen (25:00)

I don't know. No, I mean, I feel like I came from the calories, fat, sugar, you know, I didn't come from protein. So protein was all new to me in the last few years. It really was. And now I'm like, am I supposed to be eating more? Am I eating less? I don't know what to do.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (25:15)

Well, listen, by the end of this podcast show, you're going to know exactly.

Tamsen (25:19)

I love it. And this book is going, yes, I was in the kitchen with you.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (25:23)

What was so cool about this book is we. I co wrote this chapter with Don Layman who is actually one of the world leading experts in protein metabolism.

Tamsen (25:30)

Oh, that's great.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (25:30)

And there's only four. I mean, if you look at who the best of the best is, there's probably only four guys.

Tamsen (25:35)

Okay.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (25:36)

He's my mentor of 20 years and he really crafted this nutrition section. It's not based on calories because women, we're not, we're not listening, we're busy. But it is visually, what does it look like when you think about protein? I told you how much the average woman is eating. Before we get to how to do it, let's talk about why you need dietary protein. People believe that we need protein for muscle. This is true. The other more important reason we need protein, especially as we age, is because of protein turnover.

Tamsen (26:14)

What is that?

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (26:14)

Your body is going to turn over itself, renew and repair. Probably four times a year. All of it.

Tamsen (26:21)

All right.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (26:23)

Wish it would do a little bit better with the Botox, but I'm okay. I'm okay. Four times a year, your body is going to regenerate itself. Your body will repair and replace around 250 grams of protein a day.

Tamsen (26:38)

Oh, wow. Okay, so we need more.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (26:40)

From your enzymes to liver to any structure in your body, it is constantly going through repair and replace.

Tamsen (26:49)

What happens if you don't have it in there?

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (26:50)

Great question. If we are not getting enough protein to support this protein turnover and the aging process, it begins to prioritize pulling from tissues like muscle to protect your liver and your heart and other organ systems because your organs are the priority. And then secondarily skeletal muscle is this amino acid reservoir, which is really what protein is built on. It's these various amino acids. So that is a lot of science and a lot of numbers. We eat primarily to maintain the structures of the body and it is a very dynamic process. Now I'm going to throw in another a wrench into this just to clear this up. If we were to take a step back and we frame up the conversation. How much is too much? What is a high protein diet? And how can we think about the landscape? The current protein recommendations are based on something called the rda. Recommended Dietary Allowance. That number is set at the minimum to prevent a protein deficiency. The bare minimum.

Tamsen (28:02)

The bare minimum.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (28:03)

And that is set at 0.37 grams per pound.

Tamsen (28:07)

All right.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (28:08)

If someone was 115 pounds, maybe one of your producers can do the math. If someone was 115 pounds times 0.37. That's what, 45 grams of protein.

Tamsen (28:18)

All right. Bare minimum.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (28:19)

The minimum to prevent a deficiency that is not going to support optimal aging. Support menopausal. I don't want to say menopausal muscle, because actually muscle is the same whether you're in menopause or not. But really to support what we want to look like and how we want to maintain our metabolism, how we want to maintain our mobility and strength, and how we want to be able to pull the lever of mentality to become more resilient. I would never recommend someone going below 100 grams of protein a day. Just as a blanket statement.

Tamsen (28:55)

As a woman, man, it doesn't matter.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (28:56)

I don't care.

Tamsen (28:57)

It doesn't matter. Just 100 grams should be your baseline. Just have a number in your head and that should be it.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (29:03)

The average woman is eating below that.

Tamsen (29:06)

Okay.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (29:06)

The average man is also eating below that, by the way.

Tamsen (29:09)

Really?

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (29:10)

Yeah. They're eating between the last data point I looked at. I think that they're eating between 80 and 90 grams.

Tamsen (29:15)

I can believe that. If I think about my husband's diet, I can think about that. Cause he's not focused on that.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (29:20)

He's just not eating. Yeah. It's the most important macronutrient.

Tamsen (29:24)

What is the best protein for your buck? Like, if you're gonna say, I'm gonna sit down and have protein. Is it a protein shake? Is it protein pow. The steak that you talked about, Is it meat? Is a fish? What does that look like?

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (29:33)

A couple of ways to answer this. We know that we want to have a minimum of 100 grams. But if I wanted to optimize for body composition and let's say I wanted to have you lower your body fat percentage and maintain skeletal muscle, then I am going to think about protein on the higher end, and that's going to be around 1.2 grams per kilogram, or 0.7 to 1 gram per pound of target body weight.

Tamsen (30:00)

Okay.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (30:00)

Because I want to. I want to pause there because people are really conditioned to believe that. That is a lot.

Tamsen (30:08)

Yes, they are. Yeah.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (30:10)

Let's say you're 150 pound woman and your target weight after menopause is 130 pounds. Your protein target is around 130.

Tamsen (30:20)

I mean, I'm a pescatarian. I told you that. And it's tough.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (30:24)

It is tough.

Tamsen (30:25)

Really hard for me to get that amount of protein. And I think about it all the time. So what do you do?

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (30:31)

We focus on the first and the Last meal, dietary protein. And as a pescetarian, the first and the last meal are your most important meals.

Tamsen (30:39)

All right?

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (30:40)

They are going to help protect muscle, help with your metabolism. The data also shows that if you're hitting roughly 30 grams or even a little bit higher, you are less likely to go to have your cupcake or your treat. So it augments willpower. It's pretty extraordinary. For me, a protein shake is an easy way.

Tamsen (31:00)

Okay.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (31:01)

There are high quality and there are low quality proteins.

Tamsen (31:04)

Yeah, let's talk about that. Because I feel like there are so many protein powders out there right now. What should you be looking for on a label? So you say I can say no to those and this is the area I should be living in.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (31:16)

We'll start with the protein powders and then we'll move to the whole foods.

Tamsen (31:18)

Okay.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (31:19)

The protein powders are really based on the amino acid profile and the amino acids are the building blocks of these proteins. There are various amino acids that make up a steak in a certain amount. And there are different amino acid profiles for say something like tempeh or soy or tofu. It is really the variation of these but when you look at the back of a label it just says protein.

Tamsen (31:45)

Right.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (31:45)

But there are 21 different.

Tamsen (31:48)

Is that when you hear the word complete protein versus incomplete protein, is that the.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (31:52)

Okay, there are nine essential amino acids.

Tamsen (31:54)

Okay.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (31:54)

And those essential amino acids make something a complete protein. For protein shakes nowadays. I'm about to spoil this for you.

Tamsen (32:03)

Oh no, that's okay.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (32:05)

Again, it's to lay the foundation. It's really based on these amino acids. Collagen has a protein score of zero.

Tamsen (32:13)

Oh my gosh.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (32:14)

I told you. I told you I was going to lay it on thick right off the bat. What does that mean?

Tamsen (32:17)

It has a protein score.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (32:17)

It does not count towards your total protein.

Tamsen (32:20)

Why?

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (32:20)

Because it is missing some of the essential amino acids.

Tamsen (32:24)

So it's an incomplete protein.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (32:25)

It's an incomplete protein.

Tamsen (32:27)

So it doesn't count towards your 100.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (32:28)

It does not.

Tamsen (32:29)

So it counts towards your face.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (32:30)

Counts towards zero. Yes, your face and your skin.

Tamsen (32:33)

So you could have collagen.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (32:34)

Listen, I will collagen.

Tamsen (32:35)

Or you could put cream on.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (32:36)

I fight with one of my really good friends, him and I fight about it. He's like, yeah, Brielle, it's not evidence based. Collagen is not improving your skin. I'm like, oh yes it is. Just look, it's improving it. Ok, I don't want to hear about your skin.

Tamsen (32:48)

So we want it for skin all right.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (32:49)

Skin, hair, nails. Again, it's very difficult to test collagen. For example, there's some data coming out for tendons, but you're not going to biopsy someone's Achilles heel.

Tamsen (33:00)

No, no. You're not worried about that until something happens to it, Right?

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (33:02)

Exactly. Collagen is a protein score of 0. I don't count that towards my protein score. I love a whey protein.

Tamsen (33:10)

Whey protein.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (33:10)

Whey protein is fantastic. You can also get. If you don't like whey or you cannot tolerate whey, there are animal based proteins that have all sorts of organs and all these different kinds of things. But again, what we're focused on is the amino acid profile, the complete protein. If you wanted a rice pea blend, that's okay too, because a plant based. It's a plant based protein. That's okay. What I will say is that over the long term, these proteins are isolated from plants and it's not just protein. There are other compounds, other likely bioactive ingredients that we just don't know. All right, for me, if you were to ask me what I use, I love OA protein. You can also use an amino acid blend.

Tamsen (33:58)

If we hear those two words, See those two words on a label, that's where we should be living.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (34:02)

And you want to see two and a half grams of leucine, if you want to get really specific.

Tamsen (34:06)

No, I think we should.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (34:07)

Two and a half grams of leucine, really, on that label. But you want all the amino acids. There should be an entire profile of amino acids. If you were to look at collagen, you'll see it's low in the branch chains, which are the essential amino acids which are necessary for muscle and everything else, and very low, if not devoid in tryptophan.

Tamsen (34:29)

We start there in the morning or morning or afternoon. And then where do we go beyond that?

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (34:36)

Now we're gonna talk a little bit about food. And this is a hot topic, which is shocking.

Tamsen (34:40)

I know it is. I know it is extremely controversial. It is, it is. Listen, we grew up for years with like magazine covers that said everything in the world. Right now we have articles constantly. Now we have substacks, social. We have ever. So there's so much information. I feel like, you know, you go, I'll just have a cupcake. Like, I don't know what to do, you know? So we want to get there. Yeah.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (35:01)

And 90% of individuals are over consuming highly processed foods.

Tamsen (35:06)

100.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (35:06)

Well, I mean, carbohydrates, highly processed foods. The more protein you consume the less specific you have to be about the timing and the dosing per meal of.

Tamsen (35:18)

Fasting and all that, all that stuff.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (35:20)

How we are going to really get through the noise is we decide that we're going to get 100 grams of protein. We understand what it looks like from a fish, chicken, beef perspective. Five ounces or potentially more. Now to layer on a little bit, I like to have between 30 and 50 grams of protein per meal.

Tamsen (35:43)

Okay.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (35:44)

And it can just be two meals. Now you've hit 100. Your first meal is what I would consider your most important. Because you're coming out of an overnight fast, you have an opportunity to stimulate muscle with protein.

Tamsen (35:59)

All right.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (36:00)

Your lunch I don't really care about as long as you're having some kind of protein and balanced meal, not carbs by themselves. And dinner, there's an argument for dinner, which is, you know, I suggest a higher protein dinner before you go into again your overnight fast. We have to protect muscle and especially as women age, the kind of protein, again, there's plant protein and there's animal protein. They are not equal, my friend.

Tamsen (36:30)

Where's fish? Is fish?

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (36:31)

Is it an animal based protein? Animal based.

Tamsen (36:33)

Okay. All right.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (36:34)

Which is a great source of protein.

Tamsen (36:35)

So if you're saying salmon versus steak, you feel okay with that?

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (36:40)

Both are wonderful.

Tamsen (36:42)

Okay.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (36:43)

I love that as women age, their appetite goes down, which is one everything that you put into your mouth. Food related matters. I had a 75 year old woman who came to see me speak and she said, Gabrielle, I'm really confused. I keep hearing that as I age I need to go more plant based. And I said, I couldn't think of a worse recommendation for you. I said, how much do you eat? She's like, I might eat one meal a day. And I said, well, do you take a multivitamin? She said, no, I have trouble swallowing the multi. I don't want her to choose something that is not nutrient dense. I love the idea that she would eat a lean steak or have salmon or have fish, chicken over a slice of tempeh or Tofu. You've got B12, zinc, iron, all these bioavailable nutrients. Again, it does. There's protein and then it is the quality of the food. That being said, you can get protein from soy and you can get protein from beans. Ish. Yeah, but that comes with a ton of carbohydrates.

Tamsen (37:57)

Well, you know, I was trying to get more protein and I started eating grains and lentils and beans.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (38:03)

Was quinoa on the list?

Tamsen (38:04)

And quinoa was on the list.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (38:06)

Cups of quinoa to equal one small chicken breast.

Tamsen (38:08)

Yeah. And then all of a sudden, my blood sugar changed and every. You know, and I went, how could this be happen? I mean, like sweet potatoes and quinoa lumped on top of it. On top of lentil. So, you know, I did myself a disservice. And we realized it through my blood work.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (38:22)

And that's why we have really clarify what and how women want to age.

Tamsen (38:26)

Yeah.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (38:27)

Prioritize protein first. And actually even on the plate. I mean, fiber is also very important, but fiber is not going to. Again.

Tamsen (38:34)

But fiber is the same. Fiber is underneath.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (38:38)

Right.

Tamsen (38:40)

What about creatine? What do you.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (38:42)

Wonderful. And I think we're going to see more and more data. Creatine for women. Right now, I have seen some convincing data. Older individuals, and let's say older. You know, I cringe. 60 isn't old, but I get it, all right?

Tamsen (38:54)

I get it.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (38:54)

60 and above. Creatine is wonderful.

Tamsen (38:57)

When you come back on, I'll be like, I need you to say 70 when I turn. You know, I got six more years. And I just keep blowing up the number. Creatine for muscle, but for muscle, not in brain placement.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (39:06)

And brain, actually. And brain. It would take. It is very difficult to eat enough creatine. You couldn't. It would be nearly impossible to get creatine from your foods in the doses that you're looking. I think it's one gram of creatine per pound. Don't quote me on that. Of beef. Like, it's just very difficult.

Tamsen (39:23)

So where do you get your creatine? That's gotta be supplements.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (39:26)

I actually supplement creatine. The data is 5 grams, roughly 3 to 5 grams for muscle and 10 and above for brain function, cognitive function.

Tamsen (39:35)

Is there one food plan that you really recommend?

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (39:39)

I do. It's called the Lion Protocol.

Tamsen (39:41)

What's the Lion Protocol?

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (39:42)

The Lion Protocol. A protein forward diet is not my diet. It is a diet based on scientific evidence. There is 40 years of data on dietary protein and how it affects the human body. With that being said, there's something called the protein leverage hypothesis. Have you heard of this?

Tamsen (40:08)

No, I don't know what that is.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (40:09)

The protein leverage hypothesis is that humans or mammals, certain mammals, will feed to get roughly a 20% protein intake. And you're thinking, okay, well, now what is she talking about? What does this mean? This means that if we are eating a diet that is high in carbohydrates, we will continue to eat to get those amino Acids that there is a biological drive for dietary protein.

Tamsen (40:39)

Until we get those, we're not exactly satiated. Exactly.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (40:43)

While we are over here chasing novelty squirrel. The human biology has its own agenda.

Tamsen (40:50)

And what's it called again?

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (40:52)

It's a hypothesis. It's the protein leverage hypothesis.

Tamsen (40:54)

Oh, fascinating.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (40:55)

Humans will be driven to eat roughly 20% of their diet from protein. My point of saying this is we should streamline our biology and our physiological drive by feeding it what it needs, rather than us trying to figure out and be chasing the next best thing or wondering why we're still hungry.

Tamsen (41:19)

Creatine. I wanna go back to that for one second. What does that do to your body? We know what protein does. What does creatine do to your body?

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (41:24)

Creatine is really used for energy power, you know, energy recovery in training.

Tamsen (41:31)

Okay, so we're telling. We're telling women you want to lift.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (41:35)

Yeah. It seems that it can improve the performance depending on what kind of activity people are doing. You have to start with a good foundational diet. People can use high quality animal based proteins. They can also use fish or chicken. Some kind of shake to help dairy. Protein also works. Yogurt also great. Super happy with that.

Tamsen (41:59)

I remember when dairy was like Persona, you know, no, dairy crazy.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (42:04)

I actually, on my podcast, I had the only person that has studied. Do you know there's something called ovarian waves? There's this. Have you heard of that?

Tamsen (42:14)

No.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (42:14)

Ovaries go through this cycle. And she's the only person in the world that has studied the menopause transition of the ovaries.

Tamsen (42:22)

Oh, wow. No.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (42:23)

Yeah, her name is Heidi Van Brink.

Tamsen (42:25)

Okay.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (42:25)

Just random.

Tamsen (42:26)

All right.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (42:27)

And when we're talking about coming back to the foundation, it's really about setting up a diet that supports all of these transitions.

Tamsen (42:37)

All right, let's talk about supplements so we can drill it down. If somebody says, like, look, I don't want to do 15 supplements a day. I don't want to spend the money. I don't even know what I want. I don't even know what any of it means. Drill it down. Like just what can somebody do?

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (42:50)

Supplementation. Here's how I think about it. What are your needs and what are you missing?

Tamsen (42:54)

Okay.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (42:55)

Omega 3 fatty acids. There is great data. If someone has menstrual cramps, by the way, there's data, did you know that that is coming out, that omega 3 fatty acids can help with menstrual cramps? Yeah, I just heard this myself too. That's pretty brain health. Also inflammation and I don't know the mechanism, but it seems as if that omega 3 fatty acids do something uniquely for women. Again, I don't know where we are in definitive science language yet, but if you are male or female, I think omega 3 fatty acids.

Tamsen (43:33)

All right.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (43:33)

Killer. I will say vitamin D depending. And that's actually controversial. Whether you should supplement.

Tamsen (43:42)

I didn't know that that was controversial.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (43:43)

It is. I am not sure.

Tamsen (43:45)

Okay, but that's for bone.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (43:47)

This is for. Yes. So calcium, vitamin D, K2.

Tamsen (43:51)

Yeah.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (43:52)

Also urolithin A. I'm obsessed with urolithin A.

Tamsen (43:56)

What does that do?

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (43:57)

Urlithin A is a postbiotic. And the company that I use is Mito Pure. They're extraordinary. It helps with mitochondria, it helps with aging mitochondria. It helps with strength and energy production. It almost mimics exercise in the mitochondria. Okay. Essential amino acids. If you are not eating a higher protein diet.

Tamsen (44:18)

Right.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (44:19)

Some kind of whey protein. Essential amino acid shake.

Tamsen (44:24)

That's the protein shake we're talking about.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (44:25)

And for brain function, I love a beta hydroxybutyrate.

Tamsen (44:29)

Say it again?

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (44:29)

Beta hydroxy. Ketones.

Tamsen (44:31)

Ketones. Okay. Ketones.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (44:32)

I want them to be able to think about. Okay. You told me I need 100 grams of protein. I want to have 30 to 50 grams at the first meal, 30 to 50 grams at the last meal. What about the rest of my nutrition plan? You have to earn carbohydrates through exercise. A lot of the problems that we are seeing in women's blood work is a mismatch of their muscle health with their diet.

Tamsen (44:56)

All right, what does that mean?

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (44:57)

They have skeletal muscle that looks like a wagyu beefsteak. It's marbled. Okay, carbohydrates. You have to match carbohydrates with your physical activity and the health of skeletal muscle. Meaning, let's say you have a baseline carbohydrate intake of around 100 grams. Anything above that, you earn through exercise.

Tamsen (45:19)

What you're going to burn off with exercise?

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (45:21)

You're just going to move. Right? Because carbohydrates, we think about it as giving us energy for movement and exercise on days that women don't train. If you're not going to the gym, you don't need extra carbohydrates.

Tamsen (45:33)

So what are your carbohydrates in a day?

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (45:34)

Everything else. Out of my 100 grams, I have 100 grams at baseline for carbohydrates. And I typically do a one to one ratio of protein to carburetors okay.

Tamsen (45:42)

All right.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (45:43)

And I might have berries, I might have potato, sweet potato. But it's a one to one ratio.

Tamsen (45:48)

All right.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (45:49)

Anything outside of that hundred grams I'm earning through exercise. Maybe it's, you know, I do like a hundred push ups a day just in between whatever we're doing. That's only 10. 10 times, by the way.

Tamsen (45:59)

And you just do 10? You just drop and do 10?

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (46:01)

No, I like to do more, but again.

Tamsen (46:05)

All right, I'm gonna hold you to it.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (46:07)

I don't know if I'm gonna be.

Tamsen (46:08)

Able to keep up with you, but I'm gonna try.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (46:09)

Well, you know what? We should start a push up challenge.

Tamsen (46:12)

I would love that.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (46:13)

We should start. I will do that. Tams and Cho should start a push up challenge because people don't believe that they have been lifting weights and don't believe that they have been strong their entire life. And they are. We just have to cultivate that.

Tamsen (46:25)

I love the fact that you've just told everybody they've been lifting weights their whole lives.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (46:29)

Yeah.

Tamsen (46:29)

Because it's really true. It's really true. A few weeks ago, I made a promise to myself to change a few habits. The first, my morning walks. Every single morning, I throw on my shoes, and no matter what the weather is or what my mood is, I go. The second habit, I'm determined to stick to hitting my nutrition goals every single day. Because it's not about overhauling your whole life, which can be exhausting. It's really about being consistent with habits that you can stick to. And that's why I love cachava. It simplifies nutrition without cutting any corners. Just two scoops gives you plant based protein, fiber, greens, adaptogens, and essential nutrients that support energy, digestion, strength, metabolism, cognition, and immunity. So here's what I notice. I notice steadier energy, better digestion, and nourishment that feels supportive instead of overwhelming. Depending on my mood, I'll have it with frozen berries and almond milk. Sometimes I like it with my iced coffee. Here's the thing. It's fast. It tastes delicious. It comes in six flavors. Coconut, acai, chocolate, vanilla, chai matcha, and strawberry. Cachava is clean. It's plant based, non GMO with no artificial flavors, colors, sweeteners, soy, gluten, animal products or preservatives. Rewild your nutrition@cachava.com and use code TAMSEN. New customers get $20 off an order of two bags or more now through the 31st. That's Cachava K A C-H-A V A.com code TAMSEN. I realized something recently. I take thousands of photos. Trips, family moments, everyday life, my food. And then they all just sit on my phone. And honestly, most of the time they disappear the second I scroll past them. That's when I decided to make a year in review book with Journey Print. What surprised me was how easy it was. I uploaded my photos and Journeyprint automatically, organized everything by date and location, even adding maps to the whole year. It told an actual story, not just a pile of pictures. I didn't have to design anything or spend hours figuring when the book arrived. It felt different than looking at photos on a screen. The paper's beautiful, the quality is substantial, and it's something I actually want to leave on the table and pick up again. If you've ever thought about making a photo book but felt overwhelmed or short on time, I hear you, but this really changes the experience. Go to JourneyApp.com podcast Tamson and use the code Tamson to get 30% off your next purchase. That's Journey spelled J-O-U-R-N-I app.com podcast Tamsen and use the code Tamsen at checkout. Why is strength training so important in midlife? Because I. I mean, I know what I. As much as I understand, but I think that, you know, when we're telling women they're already starting to lift, right? Or they've already been lifting all along, but strength training, now we're saying in.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (49:21)

A different way, or why don't we just call it. Yeah, strength training. Working out.

Tamsen (49:28)

Resistance training.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (49:28)

Resistance training. And this is the human. You know, people will say the biggest disease is. They'll say it's heart disease, or they'll say it's obesity. You know what I think it is? I think it's comfort. That's true. I think comfort is what kills more people than anything else because it applies.

Tamsen (49:46)

To each one of these areas separately.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (49:47)

Everything.

Tamsen (49:48)

Yeah, everything.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (49:51)

Therefore, when we choose the path that is harder, our life becomes easier in everything. All of physical activity. I could literally sit in this chair all day and solve all of everything that I could ever need could be delivered to me. I don't even have to move. This is a new phenomenon. We were not designed to be as.

Tamsen (50:15)

Domesticated as we are physically and mentally.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (50:17)

It's completely comfort. Kill.

Tamsen (50:19)

Screwing it all up. Yeah.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (50:21)

How do we create more friction in our lives? And we're talking about resistance training. But a lot of women do not relate to going to the weight room. They feel Embarrassed. They feel like I've never done it. I'm going to look foolish. I don't want to go self conscious. How to start? You do not have to start in the weight room, but you have to understand that starting anything new feels uncomfortable. Okay. We're going to embrace that part. This is exciting. It's the only way we grow.

Tamsen (50:50)

Yep.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (50:51)

Structured progressive stimulus, which could be body weight bands, weights, humans, toddlers. It's all about creating an environment that stimulates your muscle.

Tamsen (51:06)

Where you feel it, where you actually.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (51:08)

Feel it, where you feel it. Resistance training. Everyone's looking for the fountain of youth. I got it.

Tamsen (51:14)

Explain what resistance training is.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (51:17)

Resistance training is typically moving your muscle against force. That's it. You're training through, quote, resistance.

Tamsen (51:27)

Why is it the fountain of youth?

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (51:28)

Because it anchors your metabolism, your metabolic health, your physical health and your mental health and your brain health, you name it. When you contract skeletal muscle, it releases myokines that help with neurogenesis and help with mood and build stronger bones. Simply the act of contracting your muscle has a cascade effect throughout the whole body.

Tamsen (51:54)

It's funny, we always say I feel so much better when I go to the gym. There's a real scientific reason for that, correct? Yeah. I mean, it's actually happening to you. And is it the harder you work out, the better you feel mentally, Longer it lasts?

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (52:07)

This is not scientific evidence based statement.

Tamsen (52:11)

All right.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (52:12)

But yes, try to.

Tamsen (52:13)

I'll take it because I've felt it before.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (52:16)

Try to have a negative narrative and jump in the cold plunge. Try to have a negative narrative and do push ups till failure. You can only focus on the task at hand. And again, it brings us back to discernment. We're pulling the lever of skeletal muscle to move our minds and bodies to a different level.

Tamsen (52:37)

How often should women do it? How much do they need?

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (52:39)

Two to three, Two to three days a week of resistance training.

Tamsen (52:41)

Two to three days a week? Yeah. Okay. All right. And then cardio. Tell me how we add cardio into it.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (52:47)

And also, there's a lot of myths surrounding training right now.

Tamsen (52:49)

Oh, well, give them to me.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (52:51)

That women have to lift heavy. You don't. The data doesn't support that.

Tamsen (52:54)

You have to. All right, so let's tell women what they need to do.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (52:57)

It's really interesting. Are women understudied? Yes. Are women different? Yes. Are there a whole host of potential differences within skeletal muscle fibers and everything? Yes, but it might not be that it's a female difference. It's an interview. Personal variation.

Tamsen (53:21)

What does that mean?

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (53:22)

Your muscle fiber is different than mine.

Tamsen (53:23)

Oh, yeah. Okay. So it's different from everybody. It's different from everybody.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (53:26)

Different than. Yeah, Johanna. And different than my husband's.

Tamsen (53:29)

Yeah.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (53:29)

There are really world class scientific experts that are saying one thing that are in the lab doing clinical research. And the majority of them will say that we do need better randomized controlled trials for women, but that women do not need to train differently than men. They do not need to train heavy. They do not need. Doesn't matter if they're training, fasted or fed that right now there is a whole host of things that I think overcomplicate it that this science doesn't support.

Tamsen (54:10)

What overcomplicates it so women can start taking these things off their to do list.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (54:14)

Well, again, this is what I'm seeing out there. I'm seeing a lot of overt statements that you have to lift heavy, you have to do X, Y and Z because you're a woman and that you're not a small man. It's true, you're not. But the scientific literature, it doesn't support these very large statements that are directing training. A good foundation program for resistance training that improves either strength or hypertrophy, whether you are male or female, will work.

Tamsen (54:43)

You know, I go to the gym two to three times a week, for sure. I always like lifted lifting. That's my favorite day. Lifting is my favorite day. Cause I feel like it's a shorter amount of time than cardio for me. I just focus. Cause I can't do anything else.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (54:55)

Exactly.

Tamsen (54:55)

I can listen to music. I'm not watching the person next to me, my arms, or I do my legs or I do my squats. How do you take a woman who hasn't done that and says, like, I don't know that I want to. I don't even have a gym. You know, I'm doing it at my house. Is that okay? Can you lift at home? Are there programs on that you just.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (55:13)

Want somebody to lift? I lifted with a kettlebell. The whole just all of COVID That's it.

Tamsen (55:18)

Okay.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (55:19)

I just used one single kettlebell. It's not about progressive quote overload, meaning the weights have to get heavier. It's about how do we stimulate the tissue differently. Whether it's increasing reps, whether it's increasing or slowing down tempo, whether it's changing positions, whether it's adding pauses. There are various things that anyone can do, but it really is about how do we create enough stimulus. So in the playbook, we have a whole host of training Protocols. But we have one primary training protocol that's really. It can be used for a beginner or intermediate. It is a dumbbell protocol. Someone could go on Amazon and purchase, I don't know, five ten pound dumbbells. There's bodyweight exercises. It doesn't have to be complicated to be effective. And I will tell you this. I have always lifted heavy and I get injured.

Tamsen (56:15)

Are there common mistakes that you see women making in the gym that we should warn them about if they're going in there the first time or just lifting in general?

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (56:22)

In the playbook I put together myself, Dr. Gerard D' Onofrio and Dr. Jordan Shallow we went through, and Dr. Gerard is physical medicine and rehab. He's actually in New York. I think he's in Long Island. But he sees a ton of women. And there's foundational five prehab exercise, whether it's bird dog or, you know, there's just like a handful of prehab exercises to really get the body ready.

Tamsen (56:53)

Okay.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (56:53)

And they include isometrics. Just, it's, it's easy and straightforward. The biggest mistake that I see women doing is, you're not gonna like this answer.

Tamsen (57:04)

Try me.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (57:05)

They're not focused. People are on their phone in the gym. If you can just get in there and you can just dial down on your focus, the outcome is gonna be so much better. I'd much rather have you spend 20 minutes doing something intentional than clocking in 60. That was half, you know, haphazard.

Tamsen (57:23)

Do you ever have your phone in there? You never.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (57:25)

All the time. My team is yelling at me all the time. And I was like, you know what? Okay, I want to see you do 50 pull ups. Let's go.

Tamsen (57:32)

That I have not conquered yet. That I have not conquered yet.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (57:35)

But the reality is, when it's time to do the work. Okay, phone goes away.

Tamsen (57:39)

All right.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (57:39)

Women should be training two to three days a week. They should have progressive stimulus. If they feel very comfortable doing the same thing. Challenge yourself to do something different. There are foundational movements that I believe that are safe that women should do. And you do have to have a baseline assessment. Women, I think it's great if you can do a push up. If you can't, let's work towards that. That's really important.

Tamsen (58:04)

Why are push ups so important?

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (58:06)

You could do it anytime. Also, you want to be able to get off the ground. Push yourself off the ground.

Tamsen (58:10)

How can a woman tell if she's on the right track and actually starting to build muscle?

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (58:14)

Well, is she getting stronger? Is the first Thing because again, I don't want to have women focus on esthetics. You could do a dexa. There's a whole host of problems with DEXA or in body, but that's what we have access to.

Tamsen (58:25)

Okay. That's a machine you stand on.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (58:27)

Yeah. We don't actually directly measure skeletal muscle unless it's in CT or mri.

Tamsen (58:31)

Oh, wow.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (58:32)

Everything. It's an extrapolation of lean tissue.

Tamsen (58:35)

Okay.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (58:36)

It doesn't show the quality of your muscle either, but for simplicity's sake, it's either a DEXA or inbody. You can do a home scale, whichever, but just do it consistently. I also recommend having a high intensity interval session in there. Interval 20 minutes, 20 minutes of intense training, and you could start with a total of 10 minutes of work. It is great for metabolism and body composition and it's also great for training your capacity. It'll improve your VO2 max over time.

Tamsen (59:09)

What's VO2 max?

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (59:10)

It is the maximum heart output.

Tamsen (59:14)

All right. Cardio. How many days a week?

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (59:17)

I hate this question.

Tamsen (59:18)

I know. I knew as soon as I said it. You knew you were going to.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (59:21)

Not like that question, but I need to do more. Just going to be honest. I need to do more cardiovascular training for overall health and wellness. I want people to start with weights and then I want them to do high intensity interval training, just one day a week. That can count as cardio. If you feel ready for it. You could add in two days a week. But again, this is a lot of layering.

Tamsen (59:46)

Rest and recovery. How important is that?

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (59:48)

Way more important than I'd like to admit.

Tamsen (59:51)

Really?

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (59:52)

You're just saying of my existence? Yes.

Tamsen (59:54)

Because you don't like your rest and recovery days, do you?

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (59:56)

I don't. I don't. You don't grow when you're training. You don't improve when you're actively doing the action. You improve when your body is in this rest and recovery state.

Tamsen (60:09)

So you work out one day, two days in a row. You need to rest and recover.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (60:13)

I would say people should gauge how they're feeling. And it's a challenge because if I trained solely based on feeling, I mean, some people, I don't know, they would never train. If I ate fruits and vegetables solely based on feeling, I'd probably never do it. And we have to put in really, protocols for people to rest and recover. I will say sleep, wake times are really important. Circadian entrainment is really important. If I were to pick what I feel is critical from a recovery standpoint, I would love to invite People to go to bed and wake up at the same time. It's just an opportunity, really controlling your environment in terms of excess light exposure, light pollution, keeping lights down low. Some people will use special glasses or using red light and not bright overhead light. It can be very disruptive. I love a good cold plunge. Is this a tool for recovery? Can it be beneficial for soreness or inflammation? Maybe. But I also think that there's a really good physical challenge. But the sleep is important, the non chaotic eating is important.

Tamsen (61:30)

So you have a plan, a plan, a plan.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (61:32)

Or you have breakfast at this time, you have lunch at this time, you have dinner at this time. Mitigating chaos is a positive.

Tamsen (61:41)

I mean, I think that's what you stand for. Anytime I've talked to you, just in, you know, not just sitting here, but just anytime I've talked to you, I've always felt that a very calm, clear focus. And I'm assuming you carry that throughout your life because there's a discipline that comes with that and a, a calm that comes with that.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (61:56)

We are a military family.

Tamsen (61:58)

Yeah.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (61:58)

We are very, very disciplined. There are certain people will always say you set goals. I would say we don't set goals, we set standards. And when you set standards, it becomes very easy to fall in line and be in alignment with what your values are. We are the type of people that get up early and train. We are the type of people that eat X, Y and Z. We do this. We're very discerning. We don't set physical goals, we set physical standards. And one of the most important aspects that I have learned, and this actually is in the book, the Playbook. But the most successful people that I have ever seen, whether they are following a nutrition plan or a diet plan or in life, is they're neutral.

Tamsen (62:53)

What do you mean by neutral?

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (62:54)

They are neutral. They never get too high or too low. Oh, you got a book coming out. Yeah, it's just another Tuesday. Oh, you're covering some breaking news. Yeah, just another Tuesday.

Tamsen (63:07)

It's my husband. He's neutral. He doesn't go too high or too low.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (63:10)

Those people are killers. They're able to be very discerning and they're able to manage their physiology.

Tamsen (63:19)

How do you think you get to that place?

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (63:20)

You practice.

Tamsen (63:21)

Okay.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (63:22)

You practice. I'm gonna give you absolutely a few examples. You got me coffee. Thank you so much, Johanna, for this amazing coffee. I did, I did that all in a shot right before we started. Incredible. I need another one. I should have flipped a coin. And heads. I Got that? Coffee. Tails, I didn't.

Tamsen (63:42)

What do you mean?

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (63:43)

Why should I be accustomed to just because I want something?

Tamsen (63:47)

Oh, got it.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (63:48)

Should I be able to get it? So we're talking about how do we build neutrality?

Tamsen (63:51)

Got it.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (63:52)

Heads, I get it. Tails, I don't. You know how knowing that is?

Tamsen (63:54)

Yeah.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (63:55)

Can you imagine?

Tamsen (63:56)

Oh, I know.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (63:57)

That would be really. Or even worse, buy me exactly what I want. Heads, I get it.

Tamsen (64:00)

Tails, I don't understand.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (64:02)

Right. You don't get to celebrate every win.

Tamsen (64:04)

Yep, yep.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (64:06)

Something goes well, you modulate your internal response to it. Oh, so cool. You did this. I don't have to celebrate that win. And over time, you never get too.

Tamsen (64:17)

High or so the low doesn't get.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (64:19)

Too low because it's all about dopamine preservation.

Tamsen (64:23)

Did you learn that over time?

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (64:25)

I did. I learned this over time and I learned. I'm a practicing physician still. Did you know that?

Tamsen (64:32)

I studied you. I know you, but I also studied you.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (64:35)

I still see patients.

Tamsen (64:36)

Yeah, I know you do.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (64:36)

And over time, you know, you have to ask yourself. And I just. My patients are incredible. There is a through line for those that are incredibly successful in their life. We're not talking about a unidimensional success.

Tamsen (64:47)

No, I understand. I understand that. Because I don't think you can talk about it like that.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (64:52)

Those individuals, they have an ability to be neutral. And it's reflected in their blood work.

Tamsen (64:59)

It is?

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (65:00)

Yes. I mean, listen, these are not randomized controlled trials, but those individuals that are able to mean a level of neutrality on average. And listen, again, this is not causation. Correlation equals causation. Lower levels of inflammation across the board, better hormonal status across the board, you name it. I believe that their blood work, it just for whatever reason, they are more stable. And you can practice being neutral. I mean, the human animal is predictable. Our weaknesses are predictable. You know that you're gonna be hungry Friday night. You promise yourself you're not gonna have that ice cream.

Tamsen (65:42)

Very predictable.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (65:43)

Okay, so plan for it. Be discerning. Stop chasing novelty. And then over time, as you set these standards for yourself, what emerges is the best version of you to go out and tackle whatever it is that you wanna tackle.

Tamsen (65:59)

You added mindset to the book. How important is this type of mindset to anything anyone's going to do? Whatever book, you know, whatever book they pick up. And I want it to be this one, because I think this is a one of a kind.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (66:10)

Thank you.

Tamsen (66:11)

And I've never seen it done before. How important was it to Include mindset in the book to make sure that everybody has a full 360 picture.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (66:19)

Have you ever bought diet books?

Tamsen (66:20)

Many years ago I had shelves of diet books. Yeah. Next to the supplement cabinet.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (66:26)

Exactly. What was missing from that? It wasn't information.

Tamsen (66:32)

No, it wasn't.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (66:34)

It was the ability to shift your mind to a focal point and be discerning of the noise. Mindset is everything. On average, people will purchase multiple diet and exercise books.

Tamsen (66:50)

Yeah, I know.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (66:51)

But the delta between being able to execute and continue exists within their mind.

Tamsen (66:59)

Yeah. Because we think we read the book and it's gonna automatically apply somehow. And really in reality, we put it down and we move on with our day.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (67:07)

You have to get really deep and intentional. You have to see what are the narratives that you're saying to yourself that are stopping you. What are the unconscious narratives that are holding you back. What is your why, how discerning are you? Where do you need to exhibit more discipline so that you can have your own personal freedom? There are all these questions that if they go unanswered, you will continue to fall for anything. And that's why there is an ethos in this book. It's a collective path of action. This isn't a diet book. This isn't a training book. This book is designed to create monumental shift in humans.

Tamsen (67:46)

I know that's your goal. Dr. Gabrielle Lyon. You know, I've been a huge fan. I think the world of you, and this is just the next level. All right, if you have not picked up the book bit, you need to go pre order it. The Forever Strong Playbook. And I just think that there's so much to this. Grab your copy. Start putting what you learned in this episode into practice. Follow Dr. Gabrielle Lyon all across social. If you love this episode, do me a favor. Leave a review for the podcast. Listen to her podcast so we can bring you more of these conversations, and I'll see you in the next episode. Today's podcast is sponsored by Midi Health. So many of you know this, but I was dismissed over and over again when I was struggling with perimenopause symptoms. I didn't even know I was in perimenopause. It is so important you're getting care from someone that specializes in women in midlife and that they're willing to have the hormone therapy conversation with you. I get questions from you every single day about where to go for support, and I'm always suggesting Midi Health. It's covered by insurance and you don't even have to leave your house ready to feel your best and write your second act script. Visit joinmitty.comtamsen today to book your personalized insurance covered virtual visit. That's joinmitty.com Tamsin Mitty the care women deserve this is a Monday.com ad the.

Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (69:08)

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Tamsen (69:13)

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Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (69:15)

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