← The Tamsen Show
Loading summary
Transcript158 lines
- [00:00]
Tamsen
Today's podcast is sponsored by Midi Health. So many women tell me the same thing. They finally speak up about brain fog, exhaustion or anxiety and they're brushed off or told it's just stress or age. That kind of dismissal makes you question your own body. Midi changes that by offering expert insurance covered virtual care that actually understands midlife and treats women like they matter. Ready to feel your best and write your second act script? Visit joinmitty.comtamsin today to book your personalized insurance covered virtual visit. That's joinmitte.com Tamsen Midi the care Women deserve.
- [00:40]
Progressive Ad Voice
You're listening to this podcast, so I know you've got a curious mind. Here's a helpful fact you may not know yet. Drivers who switch and save with Progressive save over $900 on average. Pop over to progressive.com, answer some questions and and you'll get a quick quote with discounts that are easy to come by. In fact, 99% of their auto customers earn at least one discount. Visit progressive.com and see if you can enjoy a little cash back. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates national average 12 month savings of $946 by new customers surveyed who saved with Progressive between June 2024 and May 2025. Potential savings will vary.
- [01:23]
Tamsen
Well, if you're listening to this and wondering, what does my next chapter actually look like? You're not alone. Here's the reality. For the first time in history, many of us will live decades longer than our parents did. And many more of us will spend 30 years or more in the second half of our lives. That's an entire lifetime. Yet most of us were never taught how to design those years to be truly meaningful. So whether you're thinking about retiring, reinventing, or you're simply sensing something needs to change, the the real question isn't when do I slow down? It's how do I build a life that still feels alive for the long run? Today's conversation is about exactly that. We're talking about longevity, but not just living longer. Living better. My guest has spent years studying how people actually thrive in the second half of life and living it himself, taking on new challenges and even climbing mountains well into his next chapter. He is proof of what he Michael Clinton is a former president of Hearst Magazines, founder of Roar Forward, a platform focused on helping people thrive in the second half of life. He's the author of Roar, and his new book, Longevity Nation, is a practical, science backed look at how we can live longer and better in the second half of life. Today, we're gonna learn how to design your next chapter on purpose. Michael Clinton, welcome to the show, my friend.
- [02:43]
Michael Clinton
Well, it's great to see you and always a pleasure to be with you, Tamson. So thank you for that lovely introduction. That was great.
- [02:48]
Tamsen
That was wonderful. Well, I think you deserve every bit of.
- [02:50]
Michael Clinton
That's terrific.
- [02:51]
Tamsen
Every bit of it. You know, when we first met and I go back to several years ago, I think we were both like, we're in our now what or what's next phase of our lives. And when I look at what we're talking about today, it's really exciting. But for people who are meeting you for the first time, I want to think about some of the things you've done. You run marathons, like a lot of them, climb mountains. Every time I talk to you, you're traveling someplace different. You're always, like, curious, you're speaking, you're building community, you're teaching people all the time, do you sleep? And if you, which I'm sure you do because you talk about longevity, but what keeps you going like that all the time?
- [03:28]
Michael Clinton
Well, so first of all, I sleep really well because my Oura ring gives me all my metrics, right? So I'm really good at sleep. And, you know, people always say to me, is it nature or nurture? Like, were you always this way? I kind of always was this way. Even as a kid, I was, I was a multitasker. But I believe in this concept called life layering, which you and I have talked about, that you have to build all these various layers for your life identity, because the first three in the first half of your life, which tend to be profession, partner, maybe parenting, if you had a kid or more, that sucks up a lot of time in the first half of your life. And then what happens is you get to 50 something, the kids are gone, jobs get repurposed, reorganizations, you get, you're burned out, you get tired of what you're doing. You question, is that the right career path for me? Hopefully the partner sticks around, but sometimes they don't. And so all of a sudden you're faced with, well, who am I? So we talk about how do you build new Personas in the second half of your life to build these life layers of identifications. And as you said in the opener, if you're 50 and healthy, there's a pretty good chance you're going to live to be 90 or older. And the hundred year life is already here. We can talk about that. I'm on the Stanford center on Longevity board as you know, the next generations living to 100 is gonna be like living to 80 today. Cause of all the medical advancements in technology. So who are you gonna be in those next 30, 40, 50 years? That's the big question.
- [04:59]
Tamsen
I mean, it's really a phenomenal thing to look at if you step back for a minute. Like we talk about it a lot, but if you step back and really think about, I don't know, when I was 25, I thought 50 was old. Now at 55, I'm like, oh my, what am I gonna do the next 40 years?
- [05:13]
Michael Clinton
Exactly.
- [05:14]
Tamsen
I mean, that is really what I think about. And I was home over the holidays and you know, my dad, I talk about him a lot. And he just turned 86. It was his 86th birthday. And he is taking pottery classes. He has like a whole bunch of like girls that he talks to, just friends. But like these women in his life. He like is studying birds now outside of his window, he has bonsai trees. I mean, the gym and it's really phenomenal. I said, dad, you know, you're gonna probably live another 20 plus years. Like, do you have a plan? And he's like, oh, you're crazy. But I think he knows I'm not. And I think he is planning for that and I think he's thinking about it. So what do you think people today are getting wrong about the word reinvention? Because I think that that word is. I think it causes people to feel a little angst every once in a while when you hear it.
- [06:05]
Michael Clinton
Yeah, it's a great question. I think ultimately, you know, life is constant reinvention. You know, we're reinventing from the day we're five years old. You know, we're reinventing into grammar school, we're reinventing into high school. So it's part of the reimagination process. We call it at roar. Cause the first R is how do you reimagine your life? And how do you make that a lifetime practice? So the world is always gonna be changing and you don't have to get hung up in what do I have to necessarily do next? But you have to be thinking about, gee, if I'm gonna have a hundred year life or a 90 year life, what's my life gonna look like? And what's. So we have this group that we've been following as, you know, called the Re Imagineers.
- [06:44]
Tamsen
Yes.
- [06:45]
Michael Clinton
And you know, we call them the age innovators. These are the people who are 50 plus who are doing remarkable things. And by the way sometimes it's as basic as taking on a fitness habit. When I ran the Toronto Marathon, I witnessed the first 100-year-old man cross the finish line.
- [07:02]
Tamsen
It's amazing.
- [07:03]
Michael Clinton
He didn't start running until he was 82.
- [07:05]
Tamsen
Really?
- [07:06]
Michael Clinton
Yeah. So, you know, we have a lot of self imposed ageism that we put on ourselves when we were 50, 60, 70, 80. I can't do this because of my age. I can't do that. You know, the world's passed me by. I can't learn the piano. Bs I can't run a marathon, bs I can't launch a new hobby. You know, I can't start a new career. I think you met my friend Gene, who at 56, went back to veterinary school and became a vet at 60 and said, I'll be a veterinarian for 20 years. And that's okay. So you don't have to go back to vet school, but what you have to do is step back and say, I've been given a gift that previous generations never had. You know, 100 years ago, the average life expectancy was 62. Today it's 80 in the US and growing. And in other parts of the world, here's another amazing stat which, you know, 100 years ago there were 7 million people who were 65 or older in this country. There are now 60 million growing to 80 million by 2040. So you're gonna have a lot of cranky 65 plus year olds if they don't find purpose and meaning. New things, whether, whatever it is. The whole world is getting grayer. But what's different about this generation is they tend to be more health conscious, more fit, watch what they eat, et cetera. So you're gonna have a much healthier older group. And so back to your question about reinvention. It's just a constant process.
- [08:35]
Tamsen
Yeah, I think it is too. And what you were saying about the world being set up and all these older people, I don't know if the world's ready, you know, for that. So we have to move even faster to help that conversation, that narrative, and normalizing all of it. So you spent a long time as president of Hearst magazine and then moved into, you know, and pivoted into this next chapter of your life. And I think you and I both talked about stepping away from, you know, the chair. Right. And I stepped away from the anchor desk after a 15 year career in New York. 30 year overall. There's nothing. But I remember, but, oh my God, am I doing the right thing? Is this okay. And what am I doing? You know, what am I doing next? What did you learn from that chapter that you've brought into this one? Because I never think that we end a chapter and close the door, right?
- [09:22]
Michael Clinton
So I had a. I was fortunate. When I was 39 years old, I was the publisher of GQ. Great, great job. And I was feeling very full of myself because I was one of the youngest publishers.
- [09:32]
Tamsen
Well, who were the people you put on the COVID of gq?
- [09:34]
Michael Clinton
Well, by the way, you know, I had dinner with Cary Grant, I met Michael Jordan, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah. It was really, you know, quite a hang. I'd become publisher when I was 34. So I was a young publisher and got exposed to a lot of amazing things. And I was full of myself one day talking to my then boss, who said to me, just remember something, young man. It is the seat you sit in. It is not the person who you are. And Tamsen, it was like a lightning bolt hit me between the eyes and went, oh, my God, that seat is gonna go away. And then, who am I?
- [10:06]
Tamsen
Who am I?
- [10:07]
Michael Clinton
So I kept that wisdom with me my entire career as I climbed the ranks in publishing and became, you know, ultimately the president and publishing director of Hearst.
- [10:16]
Tamsen
And never forgot that even changed.
- [10:19]
Michael Clinton
Never forgot that. And so I was always mentally thinking about separating what I did versus who I was. But what happened when I was ready to step out of the chair? And that was a decision I had made a year prior to actually doing it. I had already had a list of things that I wanted to do. I was already sort of formulating my next set of identities. And I got really agitated when people kept saying, oh, you're going to retire? And I said, well, I'm going to retire from this job, but I'm not going to retire from the world.
- [10:50]
Tamsen
That would make me really mad, too.
- [10:51]
Michael Clinton
Yeah, it makes me mad. I was kind of pissed. Right?
- [10:53]
Tamsen
Me too.
- [10:54]
Michael Clinton
And I said, no, no, I'm not going to retire from the world. I'm just not doing this job anymore. And that was the beginning of Roar and conceptualizing the book Roar into the second half of your life. I interviewed a lot of people because I knew there were people like me who in their 60s, were ready for next new things. So I wrote the book, I went back to school. I went back to Columbia and got a graduate degree in philanthropy. Cause I was always interested in that, which was a whole other area. And then the book just took off because so many people said, I can relate to what you're Saying that led to the business.
- [11:30]
Tamsen
I feel that feeling because the word retirement did piss me off, too, when I walked away from the anchor desk. And I think we have a very similar story like that. I was in my early 30s and I was in Philadelphia, and my co anchor, who was maybe 10 years older than me, said to me, listen, I just want you to know one day they're not going to want you anymore. And there is going to be a older man sitting next to a younger woman. That younger woman's not gonna be you. And it wasn't a mean thing. It was a very matter of fact in television, that this is what's gonna happen. You're gonna age out, and that's just the way it's gonna be. So I was always thinking like, damn, I hope my key card works when I walk into this building today. And I really, Michael, I kept that with me, really, until I walked out of the building.
- [12:13]
Michael Clinton
Of course. Now the good news is all that's changing.
- [12:14]
Tamsen
Yes.
- [12:15]
Michael Clinton
Because, you know, our mutual friend Gayle King is a great example. You know, Gayle's 71 years old and proud, and she talks about it all the time, you know, sitting in that great chair. So it is changing, which is good. And also, thank goodness, it's changing across the country in media and magazines and representation. Look at Jean Smart winning another Golden Globe. You know, look at, you know, the Sports Illustrated covers, you know, Martha Stewart, you know, Matlock. We could go on and on. The role models of what it means to be dynamic at 60, 70, 80. They're all in real time happening.
- [12:52]
Tamsen
Yeah.
- [12:52]
Michael Clinton
Which is exciting.
- [12:53]
Tamsen
Demi Moore, I saw. I was just a brand ambassador with Oriel. Yeah, it's real exciting.
- [12:56]
Michael Clinton
Paulina at Estee Lauder was just brought back at 60 as their brand ambassador. So it's really. It's happening in real time. And I think that it gives people inspiration that, gee, you know, I'm 60 or I'm 70 or I'm 80, and there's a lot more I can do.
- [13:12]
Tamsen
What do you say to those people that are listening right now and going, okay, Michael Tamsen, I get what you. You know, I get that. But where do I even start? Because that transition, there's a lot that you and I haven't talked about publicly, probably, in that transition, and a lot that goes through people's heads. It's not all easy. It does take planning. But I do think you have to have your mind in the right place first, really believing that there's more out there and there's that next Chapter.
- [13:39]
Michael Clinton
So I learned a few things in doing all these interviews and collecting these stories and ultimately the next book which is about to come out. The first is that the people who are the role models on this, they spent a good year to two thinking about what did they want to do next. So this was not decided on a weekend. You know, they really put in the work. They put in the work which being introspective, talking to their partners, talking to the people in their lives. And they had an inherent sense of possibility, an inherent sense of curiosity that there was more and there could be more, and they didn't. You know, 50% of it is in the head, and then the other 50% is creating the plan and the rest of it is executing. And, you know, to your point, some people say, well, I don't know what I want to do. Well, you got to take the time. A. And we have a toolkit that we write about in roar. And one of my favorite things in the toolkit is to go back to your younger self. You know, what did you want to do when you were 20 that, you know, you wanted to be an anthropologist, but your parents were like, well, you're not going to get a job being an anthropologist.
- [14:47]
Tamsen
No, our parents said a lot to us.
- [14:49]
Michael Clinton
You go be a. Get a practical degree. And we have lots of examples of people who finally stepped into their younger self and started a great story of my friend McGarvey Black, who was 58 and started writing mystery novels, did a Dan Brown class, you know, all that kind of stuff. And at 67 today, she's written 12 mystery novels and published. So, you know, you've gotta mind your own being. What makes you. What excited you when you were younger.
- [15:16]
Tamsen
I think that those stories excite me every time I read one, every time I get one of your newsletters. Roar Forward, when we first started talking, was just getting underway and just starting. You had just written the book and that was the first time I think we met. As I interviewed you for roar, I didn't even know. We didn't even know each other.
- [15:31]
Michael Clinton
We didn't know each other.
- [15:31]
Tamsen
We didn't know each other. Now we can't stop talking. But Roar Forward, the plot, platform and the community has been created. Have you seen a lot come from community? Because I do. Really. I know we use the word a lot, but I also know that it has a whole different meaning for me right now than it did before.
- [15:47]
Michael Clinton
You know, one of the things in the past, it was very isolated. It was about medicine or it was about the Technologists or the tech bros who were spending a lot of money to live forever, you know, all that
- [15:57]
Tamsen
kind of stuff, testing things out, hacking things out.
- [15:59]
Michael Clinton
Exactly right. And it was not democratized and there wasn't a community around it. What's happened in the last couple of years is the word longevity has entered the zeitgeist globally. And I just heard a stat recently on a media heat map, that 1,000% increase in the word longevity in the popular media. Wow. And you just saw in the last month or two that Time magazine had their first longevity issue. And you know, you're beginning to see it being covered by the mass media in lots of ways. So there is a community that is being built around the longevity phenomena that includes what we call the longevity innovators. And we can talk about that. That also includes the people, because the people who are over 50. And I like to remind everyone that the first millennials turned 50 in four years.
- [16:48]
Tamsen
Oh my gosh.
- [16:49]
Michael Clinton
Gosh, Sweet millennials. Those Sweet millennials turn 50 in four years.
- [16:55]
Tamsen
That is mind blowing.
- [16:56]
Michael Clinton
That is a generation of 70 plus million people. As big, if not bigger than the boomers and the boomers, the Xers, and now the new wave of millennials are all going to be in the second half of their lives. And right now 35% of the US population is 50 +117 million ish. It's going to be 130 million in six, seven years. So you've got this huge wave and this community of people who are over 50 who are all going to be going through the same kind of existential questioning. Am I doing what I want to do? Am I happy with who I'm with? Blah, blah, blah, blah. The she number of those people are creating community and looking for solves, solutions, ideas.
- [17:41]
Tamsen
Oh gosh, I love this time of year. There is something about this time of year where I just want to move, I want to walk, I want to get outside, I want to just get in motion. Long walks, workouts, being outside again, it makes me rethink the basics I'm wearing every day. I've been getting back into my lifting workouts and bomba sports. Socks have been such a game changer. They're cushioned where you need them, they stay in place. And I'm not distracted by like adjusting everything all the time. I can just focus on moving. And you know, I love my morning walks and you know what happens when I put my boots back in the closet. Then I'm all about comfortable footwear. Bombas has warm weather footwear, and it's back in rotation. It's lightweight, supportive, and perfect for travel days or for just running out the door. Especially when it comes to their sandals. Even their basic sofa surprised me overall. The tees, the underwear, they're soft, they're breathable, and. And they just feel like an upgrade from what I was wearing before. This is also a part that really matters to me. For every item you purchase, an essential clothing item is donated to someone facing housing insecurity. One purchased, one donated. With over 150 million donations and counting, that is pretty amazing to me. Head over to bombas.comtamsen and use code TAMSEN for 20% off your first purchase. That's B O M B A S.comtamsin code TAMSEN@ checkout. Take the exit, turn right into the drive thru.
- [19:05]
Michael Clinton
Nope, I'm making dinner tonight.
- [19:07]
Tamsen
You don't have time. Josh has practice.
- [19:09]
Michael Clinton
Oh, that's right.
- [19:10]
Tamsen
I'll just get a salad and fries.
- [19:12]
Michael Clinton
No, just the salad.
- [19:13]
Tamsen
But salad cancels. Fries.
- [19:15]
Michael Clinton
Salad only.
- [19:16]
Tamsen
Fries.
- [19:16]
Michael Clinton
Salad fries.
- [19:17]
Tamsen
Food noise isn't fair, but Mochi Health is the affordable GLP one source that puts you on the road to successful weight loss.
- [19:24]
Michael Clinton
Hey, can I get the fries? Salad? Sorry.
- [19:27]
Tamsen
Learn more@joinmoji.com Mochi members have access to licensed physicians and nutritionists. Results may vary. So when you use the word or say the word longevity in your book, it's coming out. Is Longevity Nation in pre order now? What does the word longevity mean to you?
- [19:45]
Michael Clinton
If I step back and I look at how the longevity you touched on in the beginning of the program, longer, healthier, better life. And you know, we always say the hundred year life is here, but it doesn't really matter ultimately how many years. You want to maximize and optimize the best years that you have and you want to, you know, collapse your morbidity period. Right? So the best thing is your quality of life. What does that mean? Number one, it means health, obviously, that you're healthy. And now there are so many diagnostics and tests and preventative measures to enhance better health, not to mention lifestyle, you know, genetics, you're only 20% of your lifespan and your longevity. So it's in your hands, right?
- [20:29]
Tamsen
So I wish, I hope more people hear what you just said. It's in your hands.
- [20:32]
Michael Clinton
Yeah, it's in your hands. You can affect your health through very fundamental things like exercise and eating right and sleeping right and having purpose and having community. A little GLP1 doesn't hurt.
- [20:45]
Tamsen
Even though we've done GLP1 interviews about that.
- [20:50]
Michael Clinton
Well, you know, that's a big conversation. It's a big conversation. It is a big revolutionary drug that's gonna impact many, many people once it's affordable and it can be democratized and everyone can have access to it. But having healthspan the word you and I know, I call it wealth span. You have to be able to fund a 90 year life. So where are you gonna get your income from? And we live in a world of have and have nots. And I'm always more concerned about the have nots because if they don't have a pension over 401k, if they work and Social Security, who knows what the future is. You're going to have an older cohort that's going to really be struggling to make basic living expenses.
- [21:34]
Tamsen
Well, it's a lot of years that we didn't think it could be an extra 20 years that we weren't thinking about 20 years ago.
- [21:39]
Michael Clinton
No, exactly. And so I call it health span plus wealth span equals a great lifespan. So longevity of those components.
- [21:46]
Tamsen
So you didn't just write this book from opinion, you did a lot of research.
- [21:50]
Michael Clinton
I put my Thompson hat on. I interviewed 70 people.
- [21:55]
Tamsen
Did you really? I didn't realize it was 70 people. But you really went deep into the research, which I think is always an exciting place to be. What did you find from the research that I mean, you know a lot. But what did you find from the research that really surprised you? And I'm assuming it's a lot of those innovators you're talking about.
- [22:11]
Michael Clinton
Yeah, I wanted to find the people in medicine, in technology, in skin, skin longevity, in higher education, in travel, in urban development, community development, who were really thinking, not just thinking about this issue, about the world getting older and all that, but actually doing things. And I also wanted to bring a lot more female voices into the discussion because most of the voices are male that are out there. So I wanted to have more female voices globally. So I went to places like Singapore and spent a week, which is a remarkable. I always say to people, if you want to see the future, go to Singapore.
- [22:49]
Tamsen
Really? So what did you.
- [22:50]
Michael Clinton
The Singaporean government has addressed this in the way they've developed their healthcare systems, urban development, the interaction between older and younger people, which is important as opposed to being ghettoized. Every buildings are built with the idea that a green space is within 10 minute walk. There's one of the first public hospitals that bring in longevity diagnostics into the hospital has for access to everyone. So they're one of in Asia, Japan, Korea, Singapore, China even had the oldest living populations, Japan being one of the oldest. And so those cultures, governments, societies are way ahead of us in terms of addressing this. We have a lot of catch up in the US that we have to do.
- [23:37]
Tamsen
Yeah. What is the US getting wrong right now?
- [23:39]
Michael Clinton
Well, first of all, it's not even on anybody's radar, really. I mean, the government's radar, it is somewhat locally and statewide, but the federal government needs to really focus on this. We could talk about Social Security as just one example. I write about this in the book I interviewed the former deputy commissioner of Social Security. What's the future look like? Is the trust gonna go bust? Do we have to raise the retirement age again and again in order to do it? We have to reduce the amount of money we give future generations. We need reform and no one wants to touch it on either side of the aisle. And when you look at it, it's almost 50% of our federal budget. When you look at Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, you know, big part. And with this growing population and age. So I wanted to, I talked to financial people and people in that space, like, what are we doing as a, you know, as a country? So what I learned in this book, Longevity Nation, which is I was excited to write, is that you have all of these worlds kind of coming together, right? And they're all beginning to create, metaphorically speaking, a nation of longevity innovators who are writing the script for what the future of culture, society, countries can look like and should look like.
- [25:01]
Tamsen
If you are 30 or 40 or 50 and you're listening to this right now, what can you do to start getting ready for this next stage? Because I think that's an exciting time. You know, when we talk about longevity and we even talk about second half, most people are like, oh, I'm not there yet. But I think a lot of 30 and 40 year olds and maybe 50 year olds are unprepared for a second half. I certainly was.
- [25:23]
Michael Clinton
I hear this all the time when I do speeches and talks and I'm out on the circuit. I help 35 year olds come up to me. First of all, I would say the 30 and 40 somethings are very tuned into the longevity conversation.
- [25:33]
Tamsen
Okay, well, that's good news.
- [25:34]
Michael Clinton
They really are much more health conscious. You've probably heard of the longevity clinics that are popping up. That's the people who are going to those clinics. They basically always say to me, you know what's interesting, I, if I have a 90 year life, I don't have to boil the ocean right now. You know, I have a Runway. I might have a second career or a third career. I may have a decide to have children later or partner later. I may have, you know, we were wired, you know, that we had to go to school, meet a partner, get married, have a child, buy mortgage, have a kid, boom, boom, boom. I'm speaking obviously in broad strokes and that all sudden you're on that path
- [26:21]
Tamsen
and you're retiring at 65. Right.
- [26:22]
Michael Clinton
You're on that path at 35, call it. And you're commuting into your work and so forth. What this is doing is blowing that all up. And at Stanford we have a great piece of work which people can access called the New Map of Life.
- [26:36]
Tamsen
Yeah. And tell me what you do with Stanford.
- [26:37]
Michael Clinton
So Stanford, Laura Carstensen, who is the founder of the Stanford center on Longevity, wrote the forward to my new book Longevity Nation. I'm on her advisory council. They do a lot of research and a lot of great research on this topic. And one of the big pieces of research was something he put together called the New Map of Life. If we're going to live to be 100, so to speak, what's the new second half of life cycle construct look like? So for instance, today's 30 year old, if they are going to live to be 90, they may have a 60 year working life. Now we were always told, you know, work 40 years, retire, you know, the whole thing. Once again, the general construct, you can see the line, yeah, now you have to work 60 years because you have to fund a 90 year life. But by the way, you and I, or I was certainly raised that you go into an industry, you climb the ranks, you're in that career for 40 years and you get your.
- [27:36]
Tamsen
My father's still asking me what I'm doing right now for money. Like, my father's still confused how I'm not working anymore and what I'm doing. Like, he's like, I like your book,
- [27:43]
Michael Clinton
but what are you doing exactly? Like you're not working anymore.
- [27:46]
Tamsen
And every time I come home, they're
- [27:47]
Michael Clinton
working for a company.
- [27:48]
Tamsen
Yeah, he's like, you doing okay? Are you making. He asked me that all the time. I'm like, I think he's scared I'm gonna come home and stay there and not leave again at 55.
- [27:56]
Michael Clinton
Some of them want you to come home, some of the parents. But you know, the thing is, so a 30 year old goes, oh, I might do this career for 25 years and then I could have a whole other career for 20 years. This is all the two to three career. Life is something that is what the future will bring because of the longevity factor. And it's really interesting. And the other piece of that, of course, is this is part of your reinvention question. You have to constantly be a lifelong learner. You know, if I think about my own career, I was in the print business and then something called digital came and disrupted everything. And I was probably 50 at the time. Ish. When it really had meaning. And, you know, you lived it.
- [28:38]
Tamsen
I did.
- [28:39]
Michael Clinton
And I had to learn. I had to be a student to learn. And today's student is AI?
- [28:44]
Tamsen
Yep.
- [28:45]
Michael Clinton
There are no AI fluent people.
- [28:47]
Tamsen
No. And that's.
- [28:48]
Michael Clinton
You have to always learn.
- [28:49]
Tamsen
Well, that's what I want to say. I want to give people hope that are listening to this because everything you say is done in such a positive light, which is exciting to me. But there are people that are going to say, like, what do I have to do about AI? Is it going to be around forever? What's it going to be? We're all in the same place right now figuring it out. Right? Like, we're all in the same place figuring out what prompt means and figuring out what it looks like and how to input and how to have it speak. Like you. What advice do you give to people that are like, I know I have to. I don't even know where to begin to do. What do I have to do next? Where do you start that process?
- [29:21]
Michael Clinton
You're going to be left behind. So forget work, you can be left behind in life. So I'll give you a good example. When the digital world happened, same questions were asked.
- [29:30]
Tamsen
Exactly.
- [29:30]
Michael Clinton
And I had people on my team, I shall not name them, who said, I don't need to learn this digital thing. I don't need to learn this digital thing. Well, guess what? The whole world turned upside down and all the revenue went from print to digital. We still have a great print business, but. But the majority of it, you know, a large part of it goes to digital. The people who said, I don't need to learn digital or I don't need to become expert in that, they ultimately lost their jobs. They were pushed out because they had. That was a skill set that they had to learn. And, you know, ironically, in our personal lives, we all became digitized.
- [30:04]
Tamsen
Yes, we did.
- [30:04]
Michael Clinton
I always say to people, oh, when was the last time you went to a bank teller?
- [30:08]
Tamsen
When's the last time you went without your phone?
- [30:10]
Michael Clinton
When was the last time you printed a ticket to get on an airplane, plane.
- [30:13]
Tamsen
Well, my husband does that every time.
- [30:14]
Michael Clinton
Okay, well, he has the boarding pass, but he has the boarding pass. He doesn't have the physical ticket. Right. But if you. If you didn't become a digital native, learning digital, you were left behind. It's the same thing with AI in its form. So I always say to people, play with ChatGPT. Just start playing with it.
- [30:30]
Tamsen
Just playing.
- [30:30]
Michael Clinton
See what it is. So you gotta. You gotta move forward.
- [30:33]
Tamsen
Well, I think forward. Sorry, correction. It's funny. I don't know how many years ago now it was, but I was doing the news and I pulled out my computer and I had it on the desk, and I was on Facebook, and I was talking to Facebook, but talking to them through the tv, and I got in trouble, and they said, put Facebook away. Stop playing on social. And I said, I think this is the way people are watching now. And it's just been very interesting to watch just how we've moved through life. From when I moved to New York, I had a flip phone. You know what I mean? Everything has changed. And I think about it, it just seems like yesterday. So let's go into the health part of it and the habits, because longevity is also about that. And we know that it's a conversation that has been primarily the, you know, the bro conversation, or it's been about hacks or trying to live longer. But really that's not what we're talking about anymore. Right now we're talking about pretty clear and mindful things that we should be doing to be moving and balanced and feel better in our brain. And the research that's coming out every single day sometimes can seem overwhelming, but is really important to keep track of.
- [31:37]
Michael Clinton
No, I think what gets the air time is all that, you know, all the bro, you know, the shocker stuff. Yeah. But the reality is an individual gets back to taking control of your own longevity and your own healthy, long life. No matter. And you know this because we've talked about this. No matter where you go, who you talk to in science and medicine, and all the studies have been done. Number one. Number one. Number one, movement until the day you die. Yep, movement. And I always like to say, pick your approach. It could be yoga, it could be walking, it could be running, it could be cycling, it could be, you got to move. And the other piece of that is I always like to talk about exercise, snacks, you know, and what's great is you're talking on the phone, you say, I don't have time because of a busy day. You can do squats, you can go up and down the stairs, you can do all kinds of snacks to keep yourself, you know, keep yourself moving. And I'll talk about my wonderful dad, who was my, my great mentor, who lived to be 92 and a half and passed away last summer. But in his last year, dad became very sedentary and that was the beginning of the spiral down. And you saw it, his brain was amazing. He had no disease, he had no illness. But his frailty, he fell and the frailty and all of that, and he could have lived, I think a number many more years for sure. But that movement piece is so important. And that's simple. I mean, we can all do that just in our everyday life, right?
- [33:04]
Tamsen
Being aware of it and I think talking about it more and us getting out there and talking about it more and I'm sorry to hear about your dad. I know that that's so hard, especially when your brain is still all there, you know what I mean? And you're very aware. But you're right because we're taught about frailty or what happens when you fall or break a hip or your bones are so fragile. I guess I always, I think I grew up thinking like, oh, if I, if I'm still thinking about it all, I'll make sure it all works. But I think I'm learning more and more. There's various aspects to it that you have to pay attention to.
- [33:37]
Michael Clinton
Yeah, I think you bring up balance and flexibility are so important. And something as simple as standing on one leg for a minute or two. What's good about it is you're seeing now in the popular press, you're seeing a lot of these little tidbits of things you can do. You don't have to go run a marathon. You can do things at home that are simple, that anyone can do. And I think that's really positive. And we do a lot of that now with our, our magazines. You know, we publish Men's Health and Women's Health and obviously more health centric people read them. I write for Men's Health on longevity topics, but we do it with Prevention and important Good Housekeeping and Oprah Daily. I mean, all of these, all these vehicles are important to get that message out.
- [34:19]
Tamsen
That's what I was gonna say. That's how it gets out. That is how it goes to the, to mainstream. So it really starts making a difference. What are you most excited for with people learning with Longevity Nation? Because I've been excited about this book for a while. I had to Keep the book quiet too. But I'm real excited about it because I think that it's going to give people a different vocabulary or feel comfortable with the vocabulary of what it means and that it's for everyone, not just for them or for somebody who's in the gym all the time or for somebody that's studying brains or trying to hack their bodies.
- [34:49]
Michael Clinton
I think it raises the awareness for people about all the excitement that's happening around the space and all the people who are engaged. I'll pick on. We'll stay on the medicine piece of it. Certainly the GLP one is one big dimension, but so are things like metformin, which are very, very affordable that anyone can take. It's a diabetic. You have to get your doctor to sign up for it. I happen to take it. And some of the early clinical trials are showing that it's slowing down the cellular, the aging process of your cells. I think, I think we all have to acknowledge and recognize that we are going to die someday. You know, hopefully it's going to be there in the future. But how do you build your best rampway? Everything you do is compounding to the last decade of your life. So it's a really, it's an easy slide down. It's not an off the cliff slide. And I subscribe to that. And that means, you know, of movement and eating right and sleeping right and all the core things that we talked about.
- [35:57]
Tamsen
I want to enjoy my summer without that low grade financial anxiety hanging over my head, running in the background, that kind of money noise. Monarch is what killed that for me. Monarch is the personal finance app that tracks everything, Accounts, investment, savings goals and spending. Get your first year of Monarch for half off, just $50 with promo code TAMSA. The weekly AI recap caught a spending spike I hadn't even noticed. My lifestyle costs had quietly crept up and my savings rate slipped without me even knowing it. Well, guess what? Monarch flagged it for me before it became a real problem. It tracks everything, helps you plan ahead, and takes a mental load off completely. Like having a financial advisor literally in your pocket. Use code tamsen@monarch.com to get your first year half off at just $50. That's 50% off your first year at monarch.com with code TAMSEN. This show is sponsored by Midi Health. I remember it sitting in the doctor's office, listing off everything I was feeling. Exhaustion, brain fog, mood swings, sleep, all of it. And getting nothing but a vague smile. And this is just part of getting older. No test, no Plan, just a brush off. And I thought, is this really it? If you're in midlife and feeling dismissed or unheard of, I want you to know you're not imagining it and you're definitely not alone. 75% of women who seek care for perimenopause or menopause symptoms, they walk away untreated. That is outrageous to me and it's why I'm so grateful MITI exists. MIDI is a virtual clinic built specifically for women in midlife by experts who actually get it. They're the only women's telehealth platform covered by major insurance. So it's not just high quality, it's accessible. What I love most, their clinicians listen one on one, face to face. They take the time to understand what you need and create a plan that works. This is the care we have been waiting for. Go to joinmini.com tamsin and finally feel seen, ready to feel your best and write your second act script. Visit joinmitty.comtamsentoday to book your personalized insurance covered visit. That's joinmitty.com Tamsey Midi the Care Women deserve. You know, a lot of people feel irrelevant as they age. And I know that we hit on it a little bit at the beginning. But that purpose and contribution, how important have you seen that in your travels across the world and in speaking in front of different audiences?
- [38:31]
Michael Clinton
Yeah, yeah. In, in the US we tend to live in what I call an amplified ageist society. It's changing. Asia is very different. They have a very different view of older people. The EU is changing the us what's
- [38:47]
Tamsen
our view of older people?
- [38:49]
Michael Clinton
They honor them, they incorporate them, they bring them more into the workplace. There's not this okay, you're 60, time to push you out mentality, which is an American, oftentimes American business. It's a structural issue. Let's get the older people out because they're more expensive as opposed to retaining the talent and the knowledge and the experience. Right. So Asia's much better. The Asian cultures are much better at that. Many of the European cultures, you know, in France, there's a group called the Charter. 25 companies have signed it to hire, promote, retrain people over 50 to keep them in the workplace.
- [39:26]
Tamsen
I love that.
- [39:27]
Michael Clinton
Yeah. Big.
- [39:27]
Tamsen
Do we have anything like that here?
- [39:28]
Michael Clinton
We don't. We don't. I mean, Air France is signed at axa l'. Oreal. L' Oreal for all generations is one of the big global initiatives. They have very committed to that, that 50 plus person. And so we take on self imposed ageism when we get signals from a lot of different places that we are irrelevant at work, in life, in beauty, in fashion. What I loved this year in the Milan fashion Runway shows. As you know, it was the most age diverse of any Runway show ever. It was fantastic. People from 25 to 80, you gotta see it to be it. So when you start seeing different things, you start to say I'm, you know, not so irrelevant, you know, I can still be sexy at 70, you know, kind of thing.
- [40:19]
Tamsen
Yes.
- [40:20]
Michael Clinton
And you know, Helen Marin's the poster child on that I guess, right? She's great. She is. But I think that, you know, and it's always been more of a female overhang than a male. Cause the males as they got older were like the rugged race. But now you've got Jane Fond and Helen Mirren and Oprah Winfrey and all these women who are badass, amazing, accomplished, successful women who are just rewriting the
- [40:44]
Tamsen
script and touching the younger generations too. And I think the intergenerational is very interesting to me because I always think in a given day you fly through social media and you're like you're seeing a 20 year old, a 30 year old, a 70 year old. And so we're constantly seeing that all day long. How important do you think it is for intergenerational relationships with older people being around younger people and younger people? The wisdom of older people.
- [41:05]
Michael Clinton
We love to ghettoize our older people. We love to put them in retirement communities, we love to put them in nursing homes. We love to put them. And that's also a model that is being broken down because I always talk about once again in different parts of the world, there's a Singapore concerted effort to have multi generational housing, multi generational engagement, the, the 55 community. Great for some people, but you're then in a very homogeneous group, you don't get a lot of interaction. Some people are like woo hoo, I love that. But is it good? And you know, I think the thing that there's a lot of. One of the companies I write about that I interviewed is a group called Cogenerate. This is their whole mission and the importance of having friendships in who are, are in their 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s and beyond. Because we all know the story that when someone's 80 and they say all my friends are dying and I have no friends because they didn't cultivate younger, younger friends. So multi generational friends, it's important for lots of reasons including our mental well being. So I think that some of the communities. Arizona State University has a building called the Mirabella. The people who live in it are in their 60s plus, but they get a student ID. They get to go to all of the classes, to the concerts, to the. Probably don't want to show up at the frat parties, but anyway, they get the run of the campus. And that's great, right?
- [42:34]
Tamsen
That's amazing. That's Arizona.
- [42:36]
Michael Clinton
Arizona State University.
- [42:37]
Tamsen
That's amazing.
- [42:38]
Michael Clinton
Yeah, it's called Mirabella. You can check it out.
- [42:40]
Tamsen
Did you uncover so many all of
- [42:42]
Michael Clinton
this in the book, all of this? It was when I kept peeling back and learning and meeting people and seeing what they were doing. Age friendly cities, age friendly communities, new kinds of living, new kinds of programs that you can go. It was like a blossoming of wow, this is happening.
- [43:00]
Tamsen
And seeing those examples, give somebody else an example to model or follow or another university or another business. So let me ask you one final question. What makes you the most optimistic right now? Looking forward into the future of longevity?
- [43:15]
Michael Clinton
I think what's happening in the health space. Earlier this year I was at CES and I moderated a panel on longevity tech. And as you know, one of our partners is Weill Cornell Medicine. And when I really have begun to see what is happening in the medical space, a lot of it being driven by AI. Okay, because you know about precision medicine. You know, you and I may have the same illness, but through the data, through AI, we're going to learn that we're going to treat you one way and treat me a different way. That's phenomenal when you think about that. When you think about the tests that are available now for us, you know, Galleria is one. You can have a blood test, 40 different types of cancer if you choose to know that information. I think the testing, the diagnostics, as we shift into more of a preventative mode versus a responsive mode to a risk factor, and then you look at the new medicines that are in the pipeline. It's pretty phenomenal. I mean, some people say we're at the cusp of a major health renaissance, if you want to call it, with all of these things working together at Stanford. When I was interviewing someone on the Stanford campus, I was very intimidated because he has an amazing set of degrees and credentials. His name's Dr. Ranjan Nagy. I was like, okay, this guy is going to. I'm really intimidated. Couldn't have bit nicer. Down to earth marathon runner. Of course, we started talking. He's working on a moonshot project at Stanford And a company that he has to create a pill that will slow down the aging process.
- [44:58]
Tamsen
Is that like limitless or. No, that wasn't.
- [45:00]
Michael Clinton
That was. Well, it's kind of probably like that. Okay. It's not that you will live forever. It's not that you will live forever. It's that it would slow it down. You know, the thing that I debate in the book or pose in that discussion is today we say, okay, living to 100. That's really. Do I want to live to 100? Do I really want to be 100? And I go back 100 years and say to those people who are 60, say, do I really want to live to be 80? Do I really want to be lady?
- [45:24]
Tamsen
I remember that. I remember they were saying no.
- [45:26]
Michael Clinton
And now I'm like, I think 50 years from now, who knows how old the human being can be? The longest living person was 122. I think, you know that the French woman who lived to 122. One of the questions I pose in the book is 50 years or 100 years from now, are people going to be saying, well, how quaint of those people to discuss the hundred year Life? We're at 150. I don't know the answer to that, but it sure is exciting to think about it and then watch.
- [45:56]
Tamsen
Wasn't there always like the Smuckers person that they did on TV, like the person that lives to be 100 or 90 or something? That number keeps going up now or the morning shows.
- [46:04]
Michael Clinton
But here's a stat that will put it in context. Context. In the world today, there are, give or take, 770,000 centenarians.
- [46:13]
Tamsen
700, almost a million.
- [46:14]
Michael Clinton
Those are people that are 100 or older.
- [46:16]
Tamsen
Okay?
- [46:17]
Michael Clinton
The UN projects that by 2100 there'll be over 20 million oh my gosh. In the world. Now think about that just in the context. What's going to drive that? It's going to be health, it's going to be technology, it's going to be AI. It's going to be all the things, things. Let's forget about the AI chips in the brain. That's a whole other discussion. But if you think about 20 million people over 100 or over, who knows where it stops, right? And I don't think we're going to know that answer until we know that answer.
- [46:49]
Tamsen
What is your mission at. In all the conversations that you're having right now, when you walk into a business, what is the mission at the end of the day, for people to understand this is where we're going is
- [46:58]
Michael Clinton
that, do they feel like they're roarforward.com you can sign up for our consumer newsletter. It's a freebie. But our business is really informing, educating C suite leadership in business, but also academia, government. We want to be able to show them this phenomena has huge impact for their business, their future, their products, their services, their customers, their employees. And so the companies that we work with really are within that framework. And the progressive companies who are seeing this, it comes from, from the top and they're seeing it and they're like, wait a minute. We've been our whole. I'm going to stick to marketing for a minute. We're marketing to 1834 year olds and meanwhile you've got this huge 50 plus consumer base that has a lot of money, they've earned a lot of money, they've saved a lot of money, they're spending a lot of money. Maybe that's a growth market for us. Because here's another stat. If you look at today's 50 plus consumer in this country in terms of their spending, they would be the third largest country in the world in GDP spending, third largest country in the world, just the 50 plus year old in this country and growing. So marketers beware, brands beware. Companies beware. But you better speak to them in contemporary modern ways as both from product standpoint and a marketing advertising standpoint because they are a huge force and they're going to be really pissed off if you show them tropes and old fashioned cliches that people bench. Exactly. Walking into the sunset.
- [48:33]
Tamsen
Thank you y' all very much. So Michael Clinton is coming for you. Michael. Thank you.
- [48:39]
Michael Clinton
Samson is great. You know, you're like my sister from another Mr. I swear to God. We could go on and on.
- [48:44]
Tamsen
We could. I was like, oh no, I'm getting awarded.
- [48:46]
Michael Clinton
Exactly. Let's turn into three hours. You're back.
- [48:49]
Tamsen
Trust me, I would do it. I would do it.
- [48:51]
Michael Clinton
It's great to see you.
- [48:52]
Tamsen
Thank you. It's always great to see you. Well, this conversation really matters and I'm so grateful for every bit of it and to you listening if this episode resonated, take a moment to leave a review. It helps the reach more people who are asking the same questions as you are. Because the second half of life is not about slowing down. It's about choosing what comes next. I'll see you guys next time. Today's podcast is sponsored by Midi Health. So many of you know this, but I was dismissed over and over again when I was struggling with perimenopause symptoms. I didn't even know I was in perimenopause. It is so important you're getting care from someone that specializes in women in midlife and that they're willing to have the hormone therapy conversation with with you. I get questions from you every single day about where to go for support and I'm always suggesting MIDI Health. It's covered by insurance and you don't even have to leave your house. Ready to feel your best and write your second act script? Visit joinmitty.comtamsen today to book your personalized insurance covered virtual visit. That's joinmitty.com Tamsin Midi the care Women
- [49:53]
Monday.com Ad Voice
Deserve Close your eyes. Focus. Listen to work getting done with Monday.com relax as AI does the manual work while your teams are aligned on a single source of truth. Feel the sensation of an AI work platform so flexible and intuitive it feels like it was built just for you. Notice you're limitless. Now open your eyes, go to Monday.comstart for free and finally breathe.