The Most Important Career Advice ALL Women Need To Hear with Emma Grede

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Tamsen Show Episode Title: The Most Important Career Advice ALL Women Need To Hear with Emma Grede
Date: April 16, 2026
Host: Tamsen Fadal
Guest: Emma Grede (Co-founder of Good American, Founding Partner of Skims, author of "Start with Yourself")

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Episode Overview

This episode features an in-depth conversation between Tamsen Fadal and Emma Grede, an acclaimed entrepreneur and author. The discussion centers around Emma’s journey from East London to building billion-dollar brands, the lessons she’s distilled in her new book "Start with Yourself," and the emotional and practical advice every woman needs to carve her own career path. Emma shares candid insights about self-made success, mindset shifts, overcoming fear, and the importance of advocating for oneself, aiming to provide not just business strategies but also tools for personal empowerment and growth.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Emma Grede’s Background and Motivation for Her Book

• Not Self-Made Overnight: Emma traces her humble beginnings in East London, emphasizing that nothing was handed to her and her success was built on foundational life lessons.
  • “Where I come from, you really… there was really like a moral baseline, like an expectation that you would do what you say, that you would tell the truth, and that you would come through on whatever it is that you said." (07:41)
• Honesty Over Glamour: The book was written out of a desire to give real, unfiltered insights—not a glossy, Instagrammable blueprint. Emma wants readers to see the real steps and inner work behind achievement.
  • “I don't really think that anybody cares so much about how I've done what I've done. I think people want to know how they can do it for themselves.” (06:47)
• Emotional Intelligence in Business: Success, for Emma, is as much about managing emotions as it is about strategy. Fear, guilt, and anger are common, but her power comes from not letting them dictate her actions.
  • “Not being led by fear, not being led by guilt, not letting my anger get the better of me—that's why I can do what I can do.” (09:09)

The Power of Mindset & Starting with Yourself

• Morning Routines as Anchors: Emma’s day begins with habits that ground her, centering gratitude and intentionality.
  • “If you got up and you got ahead of what was presented to you in the day, you could make decisions... starting with yourself starts by getting really close to yourself and knowing what you need...” (13:22)
• Vision Beyond Manifestation: She distinguishes “vision” from trendy “manifestation” memes, stressing that ambition and vision have to meet hard, consistent work.
  • “Manifestation has to find you working. Ambition has to find you working.” (09:09)
• Self-Respect in Everyday Actions: Early responsibilities at home taught Emma that “how you do anything is how you do everything.” Excellence, effort, and respect are transferable from making dinner for her siblings to running a company.
  • “I just took everything very seriously. And that idea of being excellent is something that I've taken into my businesses and in my career.” (11:59)

Addressing Fear, People-Pleasing, and Scarcity

• Fear as a Guide, Not a Barrier: Emma believes fear should not hold women back; instead, it’s often an indicator of what needs to be done.
  • “I look for the fear and I feel it out. I'm like, oh, am I scared? Then that's probably something I should do.” (22:23)
• Breaking People-Pleasing Patterns: People-pleasing, especially for women, can be a career and happiness killer if left unchecked. Emma urges listeners to consider whether their need for approval is useful or holding them back.
  • “When you are sitting there at 80 or 90 years old, what is more useful to you? Do you want to have pleased yourself or do you want to have pleased everybody else?” (24:02)
• Combatting Scarcity Mindset: Women are socialized to worry about depriving others when they ask for more, unlike men who understand opportunity is not a zero-sum game. Sharing resources, contacts, and knowledge is key to propelling more women forward.
  • “Men can build a business, lose everybody's money, and go out and start a business tomorrow... what I want to say is that we do some of that to ourselves. We count ourselves out.” (31:56)

Audacity, Advocacy, and Reciprocity

• Permission to Be Ambitious: Emma insists that ambition is not a dirty word—true progress requires discomfort, audacity, and self-advocacy.
  • “If you're ambitious, it's going to require some discomfort. If you want to make a lot of money or at least be paid what you deserve, it's going to take some audacity.” (26:17)
• No One Is Coming to Save You: Women need to take their desires and careers into their own hands; power must be seized, not waited for.
  • “Nobody is coming to find you and hand you power.” (26:17)
• Advocating for Yourself Also Advances Others: By prioritizing your own needs and goals, you create cultural change and model healthy ambition for all women.
  • “When you start with yourself, when you really think about what it is that you want and what it is that you need, you're actually taking care of all women.” (26:17)

Mistakes, Resilience, and Reinvention

• Owning Mistakes as Part of Growth: Emma details her early career missteps, emphasizing that failure is normal and even formative. She advocates for separating personal worth from business outcomes.
  • “It's helpful to constantly blame yourself. Like the world is there to make assumptions about you... and I'm really not going to be like one of a number of people that's gonna bash me.” (37:01)
• Calling for Honest Sharing: Whether discussing mistakes, negotiations, or practical business advice, Emma stresses the need for honesty and real information-sharing among women.
  • “If we can just peel back the layers and have a level of honesty about what it takes, we'll just propel ourselves forward in such an easy, quick, and seamless way.” (31:27)

Brand Building: Good American, Skims, and Beyond

• Solving Real Problems: Good American was started to fill a gap and provide inclusive sizing and authentic representation. Skims leveraged Emma’s reputation for inclusive, innovative fashion.
  • “I was like, here is an Opportunity and that idea of good marketing, that's a different mindset. There was a problem to be solved.” (43:39)
• Customer Connection: Emma’s approach to business is rooted in direct, honest communication with customers—treating mistakes as chances to build trust.
  • “My gut was telling me, look after your customers first. And I started phoning and texting people.” (46:19)
• Leveraging Experience: Each stage of Emma’s career built upon the last, demonstrating the power of evolving and pivoting with gained knowledge.
  • “I took what I learned over here, and I used those clients to propel me into new opportunities...” (33:27)

Influences and The Power of Representation

• Oprah as a North Star: Emma credits Oprah for introducing her to new ways of thinking, mindfulness, and the power of sharing all knowledge with others.
  • “She gives me such rich information… she made (meditation, mindfulness, gratitude) mainstream... I was and am still so moved by her because I thought she kind of went out on a limb for all of us.” (51:14)
• Building a Legacy: Emma’s vision is for more women to feel comfortable advocating for themselves, supporting each other, and breaking free from restrictive, inherited “rules” about ambition and power.
  • “Armed with that information, you can do really great things, and you should, because you deserve it. And if you start with yourself, it is an amazing reframing of what is possible in your life.” (54:11)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “How you do anything is how you do everything.” — Emma Grede (11:00)
• “Manifestation has to find you working. Ambition has to find you working.” — Emma Grede (09:09)
• “Nobody is coming to find you and hand you power.” — Emma Grede (26:17)
• “Do you actually not know where to start, or are you scared to start?” — Emma Grede (22:23)
• “When you are sitting there at 80 or 90 years old, like, what is more useful to you? Do you want to have pleased yourself or … everybody else?” — Emma Grede (24:02)
• “The world is there to make assumptions about you... I’m really not going to be one of a number of people that’s going to bash me.” — Emma Grede (37:01)
• “No one is watching you. No one is thinking about you in the same way that you’re thinking about you.” — Emma Grede (53:37)

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Important Timestamps

• Emma’s upbringing and foundational values — 07:41
• Emotional resilience and self-honesty — 09:09, 14:44
• Advice for women starting over or reinventing — 20:35 – 24:17
• People-pleasing vs. Self-advocacy — 23:05 – 25:25
• On ambition, audacity, and cultural progress — 26:17
• Scarcity mindset and the need for transparency among women — 28:51 – 31:55
• Emma’s career mistakes and overcoming setbacks — 33:27
• Starting Good American and handling major launch errors — 44:57 – 46:19
• Skims partnership & career pivots — 47:54
• Oprah’s influence — 51:14
• Parting advice for women (“Start with yourself”) — 52:36 – 54:11

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Takeaways for Listeners

• Success is built from the inside out—mindset, emotional clarity, and intentional action matter as much as talent or opportunity.
• Fear, guilt, and the desire to please others often hold women back from achieving their true potential; recognizing and challenging these emotions is step one.
• Sharing real, unvarnished experiences—including failures—helps elevate all women, combating the myth of scarcity and the isolation of imposter syndrome.
• No one is more worthy or special—if you see someone living a life you want, unpack how they got there and do the internal work to pursue your own goals without apology.
• Progress happens when women start with themselves, advocate for what they want, support each other honestly, and let go of rules and expectations that no longer serve their dreams.

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For more inspiration and practical advice, check out Emma Grede’s new book "Start with Yourself" and follow The Tamsen Show for continued conversations with leading women rewriting their stories.

Transcript

[A]

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All right, so we brought the Tamsen show to la. We are in Santa Monica right now and the reason we brought it here, we just came up on our one year anniversary of this podcast which blows my mind and we've had so many incredible guests come on the show in our studios and in soho. So we decided there's so many amazing people in Los Angeles that we needed to talk to them and we want to. I love interviewing people and talking to them in person and I wanted you to meet a lot of them because every time I read a book or hear about somebody I think I want them on the show. Today's guest I don't say this very often and I love the People who have been on this show. Today's guest like flipped my mind over when I read her book. So I'm gonna read her bio first to you because it's so long and I feel like a lot of you are gonna know who it is going to meet her. So today's guest is Emma Green. She is the ultimate modern mogul. She's co founded some of the biggest brands out there, ones that we know and love and use Good American. She's also the founding partner of Skims, which you know, I talk about in this show a lot. Love and Forbes named her one of America's richest self made women. And that part is really important, the self made because we're going to talk about that. And by the way, four years in running, she is a mother of four. She's unbelievable when it comes to style. She has a podcast, Aspire with Emma Greed. And she also just wrote a book, start with yourself. And the reason that the book is so important to me is because I sat there, you know, I prep for these interviews. I wanna make sure I know everything about the guest. I wanna make sure I go through the book and make sure I know the points. I read this book cover to cover and I highlighted so much stuff in it and I tried to ask her everything I could think of. That's gonna be helpful to you. So whether or, I don't know, in a career that you're kind of tired of or whether or not you're thinking you wanted to start some new product or line or there's something new you want to try or something new you want to pursue, not only are we going to talk about the business part of it, but we're talking about the mindset shift that she. This book changed how I was thinking. I read the book and the next day I feel like I got my ass in gear and I started implementing a lot of this and that doesn't happen to me very often. I read a lot of books, I read a lot of self help and, and this was a game changer. So I sat down and I read her book. Start to finish, one sitting, which is, you know, I have like very limited concentration. So usually I pick a book up, put it down. I'm telling you, no matter where you are right now, you're gonna pull something out of this conversation. I just finished, which is why I'm talking really fast. Cause I'm so excited about what she was saying to me. I can't wait to go back and re listen to it because she made me Think about my morning routine. She made me think about how I perceive being a people pleaser, which we know I am. How I think about, you know, whether or not someone's thinking about me. You know, we go through our days all day long comparing ourselves to other people, looking at what other people are doing. She has totally flipped how I think about things. So I'm so excited for you to hear this conversation with Emma Green. And one more thing. I read every single one of the reviews you leave. Whether it's on Apple or on Spotify or wherever you're listening, my team pulls them, I read them, and they actually inform who we ask to be on the show. So every conversation we have, a lot of those are a result of those reviews. If you just take a second and leave a review, I would so appreciate it. Now let's jump into this conversation with Emma. Emma, it's so good to see you.

[B]

I'm so happy to be here.

[A]

I've got to tell you something, and I told you this when you came in here, but I got your book. My husband Ira left for the night and I was like, I'm gonna have a girls night. I'm going to eat Thai food in bed. Which I did totally like right out of the carton. I had your book there and I sat there for five hours and read your book. And I don't do it like that ever. Usually I'm like, I'll pick it up, put it down, pick it up. But you're incredible.

[B]

I mean, that says a lot coming from you. Thank you is the first thing to say. But it's pretty amazing that you can sit down and just digest it like that.

[A]

I couldn't put it down though. That was the point. And I think that everybody that is listening to this right now or watching this right now is going to feel a piece of your life, you know, because where you are today. And I have to read this because I couldn't memorize it all. Entrepreneur, author, philanthropist. You've built billion dollar brands that we all know and use and are aware of. You've been named Forbes, one of America's richest self made women. But nothing was handed to you.

[B]

Ain't that just the truth?

[A]

It is. And I didn't really, I didn't know your story until I sat down and really like dove into it.

[B]

No, because I've been so busy working that I haven't had time to say anything.

[A]

I know. I'm so happy you're speaking and writing now.

[B]

I've talked about the businesses for years. But I've never spoken about myself. And it's actually so interesting to me because the entire reason that I decided to write this book was really because of other people. It was the constant questions. And I don't really think that anybody cares so much about how I've done what I've done. I think people want to. To know how they can do it for themselves. And so this, to me, was really about having a level of honesty about what it takes to be successful and what happens along the way and doing it in a way that was like, not so Instagrammy, really. I was like, this is just gonna be real, real.

[A]

But it really is like, I felt like I got your voice. We met once before. Oh, yes, we did. We have a group that we're a part of together, but we've never sat down and had a conversation. And I really felt like after that, I got to know you. So let's start at the beginning. You know, East London, where you grew up. And you grew up in a way that you really describe how it made you who you are today.

[B]

It did. And it's interesting because where I come from is, you know, it was the hood for all intents and purposes. It's the kind of, you know, area of London where I was born. And, you know, it's so much a part of who I am. The lessons I learned, the things that I picked up. Because where I come from, you know, you really. There was really like a moral baseline, like an expectation that you would do what you say, that you would tell the truth, and that you would come through on whatever it is that you said. And that I never really understood as being so much a fabric of my personality until I started doing business. And I understood that, A, not everybody behaves like that. B, that was a really smart way to be in business, because whether or not what you had to say was palatable or digestible, it was what it was. And people understood that they could trust me and that I would come through on whatever it was that I was delivering. I started my career in corporate, you know, so I worked for years and years and years servicing clients and being in an agency and being paid job to job. And when I decided to start a business, I really understood that all of those things that I'd been taught from East London were gonna be foundational in making me successful.

[A]

And you're so successful. And I think what I love about it is now with Start with Yourself, you're giving that back. But this isn't about. Here's a playbook for the 1, 2, threes. This is about totally about mindset. Totally every page, totally.

[B]

And here's the thing. I think the expectation is that I was going to write a book that is about building a brand and you know, figuring out your career and leadership and money and trade offs and all the things that I love to talk about. And that actually is where I started. I wrote that piece of the book and then I had to sit back and almost have like this moment of reflection and self examination and say, but why could I do these things? Oh, because I've learned that managing my emotions and not allowing my emotions to essentially dictate my decision making is this thing that I have figured out, right? Like not being led by fear, not being led by guilt, not letting my anger get the better of me. That's why I can do what I can do. And then again kind of taking another step back and saying, okay, so I've understand that part. But it all comes from this place of vision. And by vision, I don't mean vision boards, I don't mean manifestation, right? I'm like, manifestation has to find you working. Ambition has to find you working. And so for me, I wanted to basically create a distinction between what I'm talking about when I say to have and to hold a vision for yourself and vision boarding. And I think that that's got messed up somewhere along the way.

[A]

It got messed up in a meme. Yeah, it got messed up in a meme.

[B]

It got messed up on the gram.

[A]

It got messed up on the gram and now it's on threads and now it's everywhere else. So when you go back to I wanna talk about that because I do think I agree with you that it has gotten messed up somewhere. And we all think that you start to be successful, you start right here. And that's not where you started. You started taking care of your sisters, you started trying to figure it out along the way. You started with what we then didn't call hustle, but you started really in a place where a lot of people would say like, oh my gosh, I could never have imagined. So talk about East London and how you grew up and what you did and what your life was like.

[B]

Yeah, I started in a place and I love that you start there. Because what I understood from a very young age is that how you do anything is how you do everything. And everything really mattered. Because in my household, I was raised by a single mom. I'm the eldest of four girls. The dynamic is like, you know, my mom's the dad. I'm the mom, and we have three kids together.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

And so that's how I was raised. Right. I had a lot of responsibility on me as a kid. At 10 years old, I could make dinner for the whole family. And I did because that was the expectation that I would help my mom. Cause she would go out to work every day and somebody had to help with the kids. But it really taught me responsibility. And what I understood really early is that I could whine about all of these things. And I'm talking, like, as a teenager when I was 12, 13, 14, that I could get really down in the dumps and angry about what I was handed and what my life was, or I could just make the most of it. And so pretty early on, I found, like, my love of cooking. I'm a really good chef, but I learned to be a good chef because I had to make free kids dinner every night.

[A]

You had no choice, right?

[B]

There was just no choice. And so I think about my life of kind of like this series of learnings. And I just took all of it really seriously. I thought it was important to understand what was going on at my sister's school. I thought it was important to give them a nutritious meal. I thought it was important the way their shirts were ironed. And so I just took everything very seriously. And that idea of being excellent is something that I've taken into my businesses and in my career. Because I really believed that if you were going to do something, if you were going to deliver the papers. I delivered the papers for years. That you would just do it perfectly. That the way that you showed up at somebody's front door and how you folded the paper and the attitude that you went around with, that all of that was somehow part of some bigger thing, and that I would be noticed for making a perfect sandwich or delivering a newspaper. Well. Or just having a good attitude. And it turns out you are.

[A]

You are. And you had respect for everything. You had respect for yourself and what you did, no matter what that was. I. It's funny, my brother and I had a paper route growing up. So I know those. Like, you know those mornings when there's dew all over the driveway. But I thought that it was very interesting what you took away from that all these years later and how that affected your morning routine of, again, going back to respect of people and hard work and, you know, taking some time for yourself.

[B]

Totally the power of the mornings. And now, as a mother of four, my goodness, do I need those mornings. I Need that moment before anyone's up in the day to kind of calibrate myself. But I also understood that if you got up and you got ahead of what was presented to you in the day, that you could make decisions that you could figure out, okay, how do I feel today? How am I going to behave today? What's important to me today? And I think that a lot of this idea of starting with yourself starts by getting really close to yourself and knowing what you need and what you want and making decisions based on that as opposed to what kind of comes in. In. So I really think about the idea of starting with yourself of something that is literally like, what do I need and what do I want to do and what are my goals and what is my vision and how can I anchor everything that I'm doing and all my energy around those things as opposed to what other people want from me.

[A]

Do you think about that all day long?

[B]

Every day you do, every day.

[A]

How do you start your day? How did you start today, for example? Oh, there to tell you how I started today. So I'm going to let you go first.

[B]

All right. So my day, first of all, I am such a boring, routine person, but that's how I like it. And with four kids and a husband, there is no other way. So I Woke up at 5 and I wake up naturally around 4:45. And I stay in bed naturally. Yeah. I don't need an alarm. I have an alarm, but I don't need an alarm. I'm just an early bird. It was the paper route. It just like. I don't know.

[A]

I don't think mine stuck. Emma. My paper route.

[B]

It's either that or living in England for all of these years. I'm just like wired towards the wrong coast, I think. So I wake up early, I get out of my bed at 5, I work out at 5:30. But that half an hour, the workout kit goes straight on. I make a coffee with some protein in it and I like. I go inwards. I'm like chatting away to myself and I'm feeling the gratitude.

[A]

What are you saying to yourself?

[B]

I am like, first of all, every morning because I have this. I talk about this all the time. I have this room with this beautiful ceiling that I still can't. You have to understand that where I come from, you can't even imagine how I live now. That that would be the truth of my life. I talk about it in the book, but there is this great thing that Chris Rock says and he says, you know, I used to wake up every day, like, imagining that I would get kicked out of my own house. I keep a bag packed. That's how I feel. I'm like, one day someone's gonna come and get me out of here. But until they do, I'm gonna be grateful for this ceiling. I'm gonna be grateful for this husband. I'm gonna be grateful for whatever is happening or has happened.

[A]

And.

[B]

And I have that moment of gratitude and I have my hand on my heart. And then I get out the bed and I put the workout kit on. I'm less grateful for the workout. I still hate working out.

[A]

Yeah, me too.

[B]

Four, five, six days a week, I work out and I still hate every single workout. But I do it anyway. So I do that. I have a trainer that comes to the house, and then the morning starts and it is like, it's crazy in my house. Today I had glam. So they came to the house and there's a kid here and a kid here, and someone's having their hair brushed, and I'm having my hair done, and it just kind of goes in this, like, whirl of an hour. And who knows what happens.

[A]

If anybody has seen the COVID I'm sure a lot of people have, of your podcast aspire. You've got the phone, you've got the hair, you've got the hands in there. But I see that from you. Okay. I mean, I got up and I came to the studio. I feel like, oh, my gosh, tomorrow morning, I need a five o'. Clock. I'm gonna call you, Emma, and be like, what are we doing this morning at 5am? What are we doing? Your mom said something to you, I guess when you were young, you're not more special than anyone else, but nobody is more special than you either. Did you believe her then or understand it? Or was it until you got older that you understood?

[B]

You know, I more than believed it. I took it as the gospel truth. And because where I came from, there was so much danger all around me. And in England, it's such a. Forget just the racial divide. There is also such a class divide. And so growing up where I did, there was this idea that you were stupid, that you would end up with a dead end type of job and that you would stay where you'd been placed. And I had so much ambition, Eva, as a kid, and my mother really instilled in me that whatever I wanted was possible so long as I was willing to work for it. And I just believed it. I believed that no one was Better than me. I believed that I had everything I needed within me and there was no kind of pity party. It was like, just get up and work and it's over there. Like, I really was like, oh, it's like a couple of train stops down the road. And so I was like, we'll get on the train.

[A]

It's happening. Oh, gosh, I love this time of year. There is something about this time of year where I just want to move, I want to walk, I want to get outside, I want to just get in motion. Long walks, workouts, being outside again, it makes me rethink the basics I'm wearing every day. I've been getting back into my lifting workouts and BOMBA sports socks have been such a game changer. They're cushioned where you need them, they stay in place and I'm not distracted by like adjusting everything all the time. I can just focus on moving. And, you know, I love my morning walks. And you know what happens when I put my boots back in the closet. Then I'm all about comfortable footwear. BOMBAS has warm weather footwear and it's back in rotation. It's lightweight, supportive and perfect for travel days or for just running out the door. Especially when it comes to their sandals. And even their basics, though, surprised me. Overall. The tees, the underwear, they're soft, they're breathable, and they just feel like an upgrade from what I was wearing before. This is also a part that really matters to me. For every item you purchase, an essential clothing item is donated to someone facing housing insecurity. One purchased, one donated. With over 150 million donations and counting, that is pretty amazing to me. Head over to bombas.com tamsen and use code TAMSIN for 20% off your first purchase. That's B O-M-B-A-S.com TAMSEN code TAMSEN at checkout. Summer's almost here and I wanna be thinking about where I'm going, what I'm packing, who I'm spending time with, not lying awake at night wondering, can I afford this trip? That's why I've been getting more organized with my money now, so I can enjoy Summer knowing it's handled. Monarch Core is the personal finance app. It tracks everything. I check it every day. Accounts, investments, saving goals and spending. Get your first year of Monarch for half off, just $50 with promo code Tamsen. Monarch monitors your money so you don't have to. I love seeing cash flow clearly because sometimes you don't realize how much lifestyle spending has Crept up. It's so easy to spend, but then it's right there in front of you. It's like having a financial advisor in your pocket. You can ask the AI assistant, can I afford this vacation without touching my savings? And get real clarity before you book. Use code [e-mail] to get your first year of Monarch Care half off at just $50. That's 50% off your first [e-mail] with code TAMSEN. I'm thinking about women that are listening to this right now. We have a lot of women that are like, okay, I'm ready to do my thing. I don't know what it is, but I'm ready for my next chapter or start over. I'm leaving my career. You know, I want to do something else. Where do I start? And I know you get that question a lot. And you're like, well, you have to decide where you start because you're starting with yourself. Yes. What. What do women need to know that are hearing that right now that say, like, I don't know that I believe that I'm, you know, as special as anybody else?

[B]

I love that question because I think that we all have those stories running through our head. And that's why it was so important for me in this book to address the emotional piece of it. You know, there's a lot of business books out there. There's not a lot of business books written by moms of four and not a lot of business books written by high school dropouts. And one thing that I've had to grapple with is the emotional part of my life. And fear is a big one for women. Fear crops up because we don't know what we're capable with. And we've told ourselves stories or been told by other people or stuff happened as a kid. And that stays with us and it becomes what we think, it's not what we are. And so what you have to do is figure out is your decision making coming from a place of an emotion that you are led by. Are you feeling so guilty about what you might have to give up or not do or not service for somebody else that it's keeping you small and keeping you stuck. And so the first place that I go to in this book is like, let's talk about that. Because you cannot move forward, you cannot become a leader. If you're a people pleaser, if that's something that is like a default emotion for you, it's going to stop you from doing the things that you want to do. And So I really thought long and hard about what are the emotions that keep us stuck? What are the emotions that keep us small? And how do we not pretend they're not there? So I am not in any way, shape or form saying, I don't get fear. It's like, I'm fearful all the time. I do it anyway. I actually. I look for the fear and I feel. I feel it out. I'm like, oh, am I scared? Then that's probably something I should do. When you talk to me about my tour, before we came on here, you were asking me, where am I going?

[A]

Yeah, I wanted all the details.

[B]

And as you're saying it, I'm like, oh, my God, I'm going here and I'm seeing all these people, and I'm like, oh, that's probably something I need to do. That's like something I feel fearful of. And it's probably a place I need to go. So what I say to everyone, because so many women came to me and they say, emma, I just don't know where to start. Yeah, I'm like, let's just reframe that. Do you actually not know where to start, or are you scared to start? Is something holding you back? Because that is the question. I actually think that we're all very capable and we probably do know where to start. We just have something else that sits between us and starting. And you've got to figure out, is that emotion useful to me? And if it isn't, do it anyway.

[A]

You said that people pleasing. You just can't have this part of it. I know, but so many people are people pleasers, and they. They associate being a people pleaser with, I'm not being nice. Right. Or I'm not a nice. They won't. They won't like me. And I don't. I don't think I've ever seen that in a men's. Not that I've read a lot of men's business books, but I can't imagine I've read them all.

[B]

It's not.

[A]

Is it in there?

[B]

It's not in there.

[A]

I can imagine it's not in there, and it's not in their conversations. So what do you say to the woman that's like, I am a people pleaser, but only because I want them to like me, but otherwise I'm not. What do you say?

[B]

Well, here's my thing. I kind of.

[A]

I love when you set it up like that.

[B]

Here's my.

[A]

I'm gonna make it gentle for you.

[B]

I don't understand this, but let's just take a step back. Like at the end of the day, right, when push comes to shove, when you are sitting there at 80 or 90 years old, like, what is more useful to you? Do you want to have pleased yourself or do you want to have pleased everybody else?

[A]

Amen.

[B]

Like I'm the start with yourself girl. I'm like, you know what I mean? It says it in the book, right?

[A]

Says it on the COVID On the COVID On the gorgeous cover, by the way.

[B]

Gorgeous, tactile, without my face on it cover, by the way.

[A]

I cannot wait for everyone to get their hands on this book.

[B]

It's a goodie. I just wanted it to look nice in my house. I mean, you know, so I really think about people pleasing as you really have to understand, like, where does that come from? Come from. Because at the end of the day you have to lie your head on your pillow before you go to bed at night. You have to be able to reconcile with yourself. And walking around trying to make everybody happy doesn't always leave you satisfied, doesn't always leave you with the feeling that you have achieved. And you need to be able to live with that. And so I would really try to understand, like, where is the people pleasing coming from and is it useful? Because when we talk about how we behave and our emotions, we've got to start having a different question. Not am I feeling this? Yes, you're feeling it. It's true, it's within you. But is it useful? Is it tracking towards where you want to go? Is it taking you in the right direction? Is it orientating you around your goals? And if it isn't, it's not something you should be doing, it's not something you should be using. You've got to put it to the side. And so this idea of people pleasing all the time is not getting you to where you want to be.

[A]

You are changing so many lives. And I know you said you want a million Emma's out there that feel this way.

[B]

Can you imagine?

[A]

God help us, God bless us if that happens.

[B]

That's what I think.

[A]

I mean really. But I want to talk about that because I think it's really important. I don't think women have had the permission to have these kind of conversations or felt comfortable having them or knew who to listen to or knew what to do. And they felt like whoever was talking about it was talking about it from other up here.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Where they're already successful and they didn't see themselves in their story. And I think There are going to be the millions that see themselves in your story. What would you like to see from women? Because you're interacting with them all day long with all the different businesses that you've started that you are, you know, handling right now. And on top of that, a podcast. On top of that now a book and a book tour. And where there should be no fear because it's going to be kick ass, fabulous. But where should you start with all that?

[B]

So here's what I really, really believe, right? If you're ambitious, it's going to require some discomfort. If you want to make a lot of money or at least be paid what you deserve, it's going to take some audacity. If you want a family, then you're going to have to think about the timing of that. And by the way, it's not what we've been told. I want women to understand the connection between these things because my point of view is that where we sit now, in our culture, in our economy, in the political landscape of where we live, we are desperate for more women in positions of power. But nobody is coming to find you and hand you power. Nobody is coming to say, do you know what? Here's exactly what you want in the shape you want it and it's all going to work out lovely. You have to take that. And so all I'm saying is that we need to readdress the balance. And to do that, we need women to take things into their own hands. And when you start with yourself, when you really think about what it is that you want and what it is that you need, you're actually taking care of all women. Because what I am doing is creating the, almost like the model in culture for you to say, listen, I did this stuff and it's okay. I talk about money all the time. That doesn't mean I'm greedy. That doesn't mean I don't do, like really great work. You can care about money and you can care about other things equally. And at the same time, it doesn't mean because you're ambitious that you're a nasty girl. It doesn't mean because you get something, I get less. We have to get rid of that scarcity mindset. So I actually want women to understand what is in it. If they start advocating for themselves, what is there. If we start orientating ourselves around what it is that we want to do, our hopes and our dreams and stop worrying about everybody else, because you cannot operate from that place and be successful. You can't operate from that place and then, you know, sit and wonder, like, why aren't things happening in the way that I expected them to? We have to readdress our own behavior.

[A]

And because you're not focused on it at all, you're focused outward on everybody else. Yeah.

[B]

And listen, there's plenty that already happens in the culture that keeps us stuck. Right. We all understand the systems, we all understand the patriarchy, we all understand what and how things are built that keep us stuck, that keep us small. All I'm saying is let's take the bit that we're in control of ourselves and make sure that we're not adding to the problem.

[A]

Let's talk about the scarcity mindset for a second because I think that is huge and I don't know, I guess I assume social media has just made that huge because now we sit there all day long and we can flip, flip, flip. And we can see a 25 year old and a 35 year old and a 45 year old and somebody that's really wealthy and somebody even wealthier, somebody more successful. And that's in a 32nd period of time. That scarcity mindset, how damaging is that for people in terms of holding them back?

[B]

Well, it's enormously damaging. And you know, the interesting thing is it isn't something that men think about. And let me just explain to you why. Because they're already figured out. Yeah. That it's not about John or Dave or whoever, it's about them. They're going to look after themselves. They don't for one minute imagine that when they go in and you know, request a pay increase that it's going to deduct from somebody else. Whereas what I see over and over again in my own organizations is that women think about everyone. They think about the department, they think about their division and everybody else. And I'm like, why are you worried about that? I get it. The care, the nurturing, the ability to see beyond yourself and all of those are wonderful traits, but not if you're left languishing. And so I think what men have figured out is that the scarcity thing is made up, it's make believe and it's designed to pit me against you to say that if you have a viewer over there, that's a viewer I don't get. If you get more over here, that's a thing that I don't get. And it just doesn't work like that. It just doesn't like that's not how the system works. And so what we need to do is forget all of this kind of performative women supporting women. We have to do it right. The reason you and I are on a, on a chat with a bunch of other women in similar positions that have podcasts and are building media empires and are launching books is so we can share the information. Not to say, here's where I went on my book tour. It's, here's where I went on my book tour. Here's who did it, here's how much I paid them. These are the lawyers I used to negotiate the deal. And by the way, I Wish it was 10% cheaper because this is the result I got. So you need to ask for X. That is helpful. That's good information that I need that you need. We just need to be a lot less surface level about it. And so if we can just peel back the layers and have a level of honesty about what it takes, we'll just propel ourselves forward in such a easy, quick, and seamless way. But when we come at it from this idea of, like, scarcity, we are just. It's like we're literally holding ourselves back. And there's nothing worse that we can do as women than operate from that mindset.

[A]

You said performative, and you're so right about that because we do. We do that. We hashtag all over the place, all

[B]

over the place, all over.

[A]

But you're right, we're in a group where people are like, here's what it is. And share things that I, when I first, when I first got in there, I'm like, oh, my gosh, I love this.

[B]

Did she just say it?

[A]

I love it, though. And I, and I, and I do see that. And I hope there are more. If we have a million Emmas, I hope that we have more women embracing that and feeling that and wanting to do that to that next level. Because that's the only way we all get ahead.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And move together.

[B]

But also then we have to be kind to those women. Right. I think that the idea is how are we treating the women that we are lifting up and then how are they treating other people? And what is the trickle down? Because I think what happens to women in business is so extraordinary. It's like one little mistake and suddenly you're kind of hung out to dry. And what I'm trying to say in this book is that that isn't the reality for most men. Men can build a business, lose everybody's money, and go out and start a business tomorrow. And they do all the time. But what I want to say is that we do some of that to ourselves. We count ourselves out. We imagine that we're gonna have one big thing, and if we mess up that thing, that will never be, you know, used again, that we'll never work again, that we'll never have another opportunity again. That just hasn't been my experience. Do you know how many mistakes I've made? Do you know how many businesses I've had that didn't work? And everybody looks at me now, and they're like, whoa, look at that. And I'm like, yeah, you should have seen what I was doing 10 years ago.

[A]

Well, let's talk about that, because I think people. People need to hear that part.

[B]

Oh, yeah, they do. The book is full of all my mistakes. It should be called the Big Book of Emma's Mistakes.

[A]

No, but it's a fabulous book of Emma's mistakes that all of us, you know, turned on the other side of it. So what would you say in terms of last five years or so you've really enjoyed what you're doing?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Go back before that to some of those mistakes. Because when I look at where you've been in the last few years, I'm like, wow, she's baller. She walked into these rooms, made these deals, wasn't afraid. That's what you see on the outside. Talk about what happened 10 years ago or 15 years ago.

[B]

I mean, first of all, there's been so many mistakes. And the important thing to say is that I worked a very corporate career before I ever started a company. I had zero ambition to ever start my own business. I don't even think I knew people as a kid who had their own business. That just wasn't even in my, like, life, you know, somebody that would start their own business. Where I grew up, you worked a job to pay your bills, and it was usually something that you didn't enjoy. You just be like, when am I leaving this place? So even the idea of connecting work to something that you loved was abstract to me. I loved fashion as a kid, and I tried to get anywhere close to that type of business. And being in London, there were very limited options. So I worked in PR agencies, and, you know, I worked in, like, shop. Like, literally stores, you know, like, selling clothes. And I would just try to get anywhere close to that business. I landed in a fashion show production company, which was extremely formative for me. I really understood what it meant, like, to create a show and the sponsorship packages around that. And what happened after the business side of fashion the press and the buyers and all of that. But, you know, the first six years of my career were tough. They were. I was in a really interestingly run company that was run by two women that really pitted the women against each other. We were in a very kind of, like, catty, unenjoyable, you know, system of, like, being pitted against each other constantly. And I think that I learned everything that I didn't want to do. I was like, if I ever, you know, get into a position of leadership, I will never run this place like this. But even then, you know, it's like I took it for what it was. I was like, there's something for me to get. For me to get from this place. But I did a lot of really unenjoyable work before I had the opportunity to do what it was that I wanted. And I think the. If you look at the. The kind of career that I've had, it's really been about leveraging one thing off of the other the whole time. And so it's like, I took what I learned over here, and I used those clients to propel me into new opportunities. And then I took those clients, and I started an agency of my own. And then once I'd done the agency of my own, I was really sick of making all the, you know, clients so much money. And I was like, I'm going to try to start a brand myself. But I didn't know how to raise money. I didn't understand what venture capital was. I don't even think I understood how you would structure something like that. So I went to my clients because they were the richest people I knew, and I was like, hey, I'm going to start this thing. Would you like to come in? And very naively structured something. So I have kind of trialed and errored my way through, and I had a lot of mistakes along the way. I've had a lot of things that I started that failed, a bunch of things where I had to, you know, hire people and then massively downsize my staff because I had got it wrong. And so I hold those mistakes because they don't always only affect you. They affect a lot of other people. But not at one point did I ever think, something is wrong with me. I was like, this situation didn't work out. This particular deal didn't work out. Not that I wasn't fit for purpose. I was like, okay, I understand what that was there. I'll do it differently next time. And so I think that I've been able to create A distance between my decision making and what's happening. And I, you know, I take the learnings and I move on and I do better next time.

[A]

And it makes, it allows you to make. It gives you a place to make better decisions.

[B]

Yes, but really importantly, I just don't think that it's helpful to constantly blame yourself. Like the world is there to make assumptions about you, you know what you're doing, you know where your intentions come from. And I'm really not going to be like one of a number of people that's gonna bash me. Like that can happen anywhere else.

[A]

You have enough people out there that you can do that for you.

[B]

You gotta make sure that what is happening inside your head is positive and it's reaffirming. It's not about lying to yourself because I've made a lot of mistakes, but it is about being real with yourself and not punishing yourself.

[A]

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[B]

Yes.

[A]

How long did you have the agency?

[B]

Just over maybe 12 years.

[A]

Did you enjoy that?

[B]

Oh, I loved it, you know, because again, the agency was an entertainment marketing agency. So we did partnerships, you know, putting brands together with celebrities like Natalie Portman as the face of Dior. But that's a great and beautiful big one. In the beginning it was like, I don't know, Susie. No one with brand shitty face. Like, whatever it was, it was like horrendous, you know, I did whatever I needed to do to get it off.

[A]

Shitty Face listening.

[B]

Yeah, if shitty face is listening, they know who they are, let me tell you. But you know, it's like eventually I grew my reputation. I grew my ability to win clients and the deals got bigger and bigger and the clients got fancier and fancier and I kind of carved out this little niche really in kind of fashion, luxury, beauty as the go to celebrity wrangler. But I don't make no mistake. I was the broker. You know, it's like the thing, the campaign idea wasn't mine, the celebrity wasn't my client. I was the middleman. Highly dispensable, disposable middleman, putting the two things together. And my job was to make myself indispensable. And it's an interesting place to come from because as the broker, you're always in this kind of losing position. You're always in a place where you've got to watch your tail make sure your clients and the brands are not coming together so you're on guard constantly, all the time. I understood that I could win things and lose things, that nothing was ever a given. And so you have to constantly reinvent, you have to consistently say, what is my service offering? How am I making myself indispensable and completely needed in this given negotiation? And so it really keeps you on your toes. And I did that for 12 years. I built a really great agency brand. We had offices in London, in New York, in la, I opened in la, I shut in la. When I started Good American in la, six years later, I was like, I won't make those mistakes again. So I really learned from having done that in a not so good way. But I feel like that first 12 years of starting my own agency really took me on a journey and it taught me a lot. And I talk about it a lot in the book.

[A]

You do. And I didn't realize, though, what you needed to do on both sides of that relationship. Because that's not just.

[B]

That was a hustle.

[A]

I'm sure it was. So you start Good American. And were you. Absolutely. I've heard you talk about it before, but you were very confident at what the product was gonna be and what you were doing.

[B]

Yeah. Why? You know, I'd spent 12 years or even longer than that. Right. Cause if you think about the time that I was at the fashion production company, so at that point, 15, 16, 17 years, really working at the intersection of fashion and entertainment. I knew fashion, I knew what women wanted. And I would turn up on set and you know, you'd have a plus size model, there'd be like one black girl and one Asian girl and a bunch of white girls and one plus size girl. Because, you know, the client had really kind of put together this idea of what was a perfectly diverse group of women for the campaign. And you would look at them and you'd be like, okay, that's interesting, because nobody looks like that in the company or on the set. And then you'd go around the back of the plus size girl and the clothes would be cut. They wouldn't even fit her. And I was like, how awful, how embarrassing. Why would she have to be on this set set with her whole backside hanging out and the clothes don't fit her and yet a customer is led to believe that it will. And so I really understood that performative side of marketing and into my head, as opposed, you know, to kind of feeling like this is a terrible industry, I was like, here is an Opportunity and that idea of good marketing, that's a different mindset. Yeah. Because to me there was like there was a problem to be solved.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

I was like, here is an issue, there's an innovation that must be able to happen here. And so, you know, I'm 5 4, so I'm considered petite. And I knew that I was always making alterations on my denim and I thought there must be a way that you can do this that's better and that's how Good American was born. It was me really thinking that there was a better way to create a company where the people that worked in the company would be a true reflection of the customers. That you would actually create clothing that fit women of all shapes and sizes, but you would make it for their bodies, you would make it so that they did. Never felt like this brand is not for me, this item is not for me, this trend is not for me. And that chimed with so many women because when we launched, what is going back nine years now, there was nothing like it on the market. You had plus size clothing, but it was up on the fifth floor of the department store store next to the kind of cafe. It wasn't beautifully presented, it wasn't done in an aspirational way. And quite honestly, the product wasn't up to scratch. The options for women over a size 16 were horrendous. And I was like, this is it. I know what I'm doing. I'm just going to make all the clothes in all of the sizes and she will come. And so they did.

[A]

And what happened? You launched.

[B]

Oh my goodness. It was so. It's so funny, you know, because you can imagine this is the first time I've ever run an apparel company. So I kind of like I'd been around fashion in my head, you know, I had a lot of denim.

[A]

You have gorgeous style.

[B]

I know what I'm doing. I don't have to put an outfit together. Turns out that's not so useful when you're running, you know, a denim business. And you know, out the gate I bought inventory that I believed would last at least three months. Right. And boy, did I get that wrong. It was a tremendous launch. We did a million dollars on the first day. I never had felt so happy than when we kind of clicked on the button for that Shopify store. I was so proud of myself. And by nine o' clock in the morning I was like, oh dear, I have really underestimated this. And one of my then board, actually still board members said to me, oh darling, I Think you've underestimated this opportunity. And I was like, well, never mind, you know, better that we sell out. And by 11 o', clock, somebody called me and said, what are you doing? Totally effed this up. And, you know, I don't know that you're fit for purpose. And I was like, are you insane? Looking back on it, I could have at that moment been like, you're right, somebody else should come in and run this and I'll handle the marketing. And I just never thought that for one second I was like, what are you talking about? I have this all figured out. Lie.

[A]

What did you do?

[B]

Oh, I just. Do you know what I did? I started calling competitors. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I phoned a bunch of guys that had denim brands in la. And I was like, how do you do this? Like, how do. Where do you get the fabric from that's quicker than 12 weeks? Like, how can I turn it around? Do you have capacity in your factory? It's like, how do I do this? But what I knew was that my gut was telling me, look after your customers first. And I started phoning and texting people. So back then, we were one of the first companies that were actually getting people's, you know, because it wasn't like you were sending SMS messaging. Yeah, yeah, it was about email. But we did. We asked for people's phone numbers. And so I started phoning and SMSing and saying, Listen, I'm really sorry, it's my first time doing this and I know you ordered a pair of jeans, but they're not coming, but they will come. And if you could just wait six to eight weeks, I'll send them to you. And most people were like, oh, my God, congratulations. No problem, I have another pair of jeans. I was like, promise you they're worth the wait. And that was the beginning of me understanding this connection between brand and customer and how if you spoke directly to people, they would respond and they would see you as a person as opposed to yet another company. In their inbox, I was like, oh, I'm going to show them who I am. I'm a good girl who has integrity that tells the truth, that's going to be honest about the problem at hand, take responsibility for it, and tell you, I'll get you a jeans, go back

[A]

to where you came from. And that's what you had learned then.

[B]

Ain't that the truth?

[A]

Keep. Keep your word. Okay? You go from good American and now you say like, oh, I've done that now very successfully, because that came back on Track not too long after skims is born.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

What happens there? How do you get from one to the other? Because you've leveraged 1, 2, 3. Is that right?

[B]

Well, you know, what really happened, I have to say, Good American was this kind of juggernaut. It really changed the fashion business. And it changed. When I say that it changed how people thought about a plus size business assortment. It changed how you showed up online. Right. Because at that point, everybody was using one size of model in their econ and we were using three. We showed you what it looked like on a two, on an eight and on an 18, and no one did that. It changed this idea of what an assortment looked like and therefore how much you could sell. Because it kind of stands to reason that if you sell seven sizes, your sales will be like this. I was selling 19 sizes, so my sales were bananas because I could capture more market share. And so it really shifted what was acceptable and how you did business in the fashion industry and department stores kind of sat up and went, oh, one second, there's something here. And so what happened with the rest of everything was really that I started to create a reputation for myself. I really also fundamentally understood what it meant to, to make garments in all of those sizes, because it isn't that easy. It's not like just because you make in one size, you can just scale it up and make a bigger size. There's a fundamental shift in the pattern, in the construction, in the silhouette. So you really had to make things that fit women of all sizes, not just stick the size on. And we've seen lots of retailers who did that and failed miserably. So I really figured out almost like there was this unlock, like what's the secret sauce? To be able to, to do this really large range of sizes. And so when Kim wanted to start skims, I was an obvious choice. A, because I'd been doing this for a while, B, as a trusted partner. And so it was almost like a no brainer. And sometimes, you know, when you see somebody's idea and her idea was mesmerizing to me. I was like, let's go, let's jump on you. Don't ask questions. You know, I think Sheryl Sandberg said, when you're offered a seat on a rocket ship, you don't ask what seat. And I didn't ask any questions. And so today I play the role as the chief product officer of skims. It is a role that I feel privileged to have every day because I love my job and I really Think about it like a job. And I love that company. You know, I just feel like what that's done for that category, that space has been just unbelievable. And so. So it's something that I'm really proud of. And a company that I am so happy was born and to be a part of.

[A]

I'm so happy. You're a part of everything you're a part of, quite frankly. So you mentioned Oprah a few times in the book.

[B]

Once or twice.

[A]

Once or twice. And I hear you on that, because I lost my mom when I was 20 years old. But when she was sick. Well, thank you. But when she was sick, she used to sit and watch Oprah, the Oprah show. And I would sit there with her, and she'd say, oh, my gosh, I just love what she does if one day you ever do that. So I don't know. But, you know, it probably had a lot to do with what I decided to do as I was in college during that time. And so when I read that, I thought, she has influenced and changed so many women's lives. What would you say that you took away from that? That has really brought you to where

[B]

you are today so much. You know, Oprah was always a North Star for me because I just didn't know any women like that first. She's a black woman. She was so visible, and she spoke in such a way that I. You know, you have to kind of go back all of those years ago and think about the ideas that she introduced into the culture. First of all, I'm a massive book reader. And so just Oprah introducing books that I perhaps would never have read, to me was like, oh, my goodness. Like, she gives me such rich information. But the way she spoke, the idea of meditation and mindfulness and gratitude, these were just not things that were available and spoken about in our culture. In that way, she made them mainstream. And so I got introduced to all of this stuff that I was like, this is how you live. Like, this is the person I want to be. This is how I want to move. And so I was and am still so moved by her because I thought she kind of went out on a limb for all of us. And again, not gatekeeping. She shared all her information.

[A]

All of it.

[B]

All of it.

[A]

All of it. As you are doing. There's one thing you want, women, because I can sit and talk to you all day, but I know you have a busy schedule. If there's one thing you want a woman listening to, take away from this, whether she is starting her career, whether she is reinventing, whether she is whatever she's doing right now, trying to figure out whatever the. What's next, the next chapter, all the things that we hear about all the time. What do you want her to hear from you?

[B]

I want women to understand that there are. That there are rules and there are thoughts that you have that just aren't so that you have to make sure that the way you're behaving and your actions are really aligned with the things that you want and not what you've been told. And so I think that you have to take a step back and figure out, like, is this true? Is this useful? Is this the way that it's been presented to me? Because there's far too much information in our culture that is presented to women as facts, and it just isn't. And I would look for people in the culture that are doing things differently. And by that I mean somebody that you admire greatly. And figure out what it is that allows them to park their feet, fear, to get rid of guilt, and to do what it is that they need to do. And I would do the work, like, do the internal work of getting close to yourself to understand why you make the decisions that you do and then just go after it. Nobody is watching you. Nobody is thinking about you in the same way that you're thinking about you. No one has time. We're too busy thinking about ourselves. And so I think we've armed with that information, you can do really great things, and you should, because you deserve it. And if you start with yourself, it is an amazing reframing of what is possible in your life.

[A]

You are such a gem. I am so glad to know you. I am so excited to see what people take away from. Start with yourself. I know this is going to be a huge, huge, huge success. Thank you. Thank you. Really, thank you.

[B]

This is such a lovely conversation and you are such a gem. I'm so happy to be here.

[A]

I'm thrilled and I hope it's one of many more.

[B]

Oh, thank you, my love. Evan.

[A]

Didn't I tell you guys how great is Emma Green? I'm so excited for you to grab the book. If you have a chance, please leave a review and let me know what you're thinking. Cause it informs every one of these conversations we were having on the Tamson Show. And I will see you in the next episode. Today's podcast is sponsored by Midi Health. So many of you know this, but I was dismissed over and over again when I was struggling with Perimenopause symptoms. I didn't even know I was in perimenopause. It is so important you're getting care from someone that specializes in women in midlife and that they're willing to have the hormone therapy conversation with you. I get questions from you every single day about where to go for support and I'm always suggesting MIDI Health. It's covered by insurance and you don't even have to leave your house. Ready to feel your best and write your second act script? Visit join Midi.com Tamsent today to book your personalized insurance covered virtual visit. That's joinmitty.com Tamsen Midi the care women

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