Abdul El-Sayed is Challenging Democrats — But Can He Actually Govern?

Summary

The Tara Palmeri Show – Episode Summary

Episode Title: Abdul El-Sayed is Challenging Democrats — But Can He Actually Govern?
Date: May 3, 2026
Host: Tara Palmeri
Guest: Dr. Abdul El-Sayed, Michigan Senate Candidate

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into the outsider campaign of Dr. Abdul El-Sayed, a progressive candidate in the Michigan Senate race. Tara Palmeri critically interrogates El-Sayed about his populist messaging, refusal to align with the Democratic establishment, choice not to disavow controversial figures, and the practical challenges of turning outsider activism into real legislative power. The conversation is candid, pointed, and at times feisty, offering listeners a revealing look at the politics, values, and personality of a rising progressive.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Michigan Senate Race and Democratic Establishment (00:48–05:31)

• McMorrow's Controversial Tweets: Palmeri raises resurfaced tweets from El-Sayed’s opponent, Mallory McMorrow, and asks if she should drop out given her apparent lack of love for Michigan.
  • El-Sayed sidesteps, instead focusing on his deep ties to Michigan and love for the state's people. (01:55)
• Relationship with the Party Leadership: El-Sayed emphasizes that Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer supports his opponents, highlighting his outsider stance.
  • “The fact that, that Chuck Schumer seems to oppose me in this primary should tell you everything you need to know about who I actually serve.” (04:39)
• Fundraising and PAC Money: Affirms refusal to take corporate/PAC money, relying on grassroots donors.
  • “I don't take corporate money. I never have, I never will. I’m the only candidate in this race, Democrat or Republican, who never has and never will.” (06:17)
  • Notes the personal and financial sacrifice of running a full-time campaign without an establishment safety net.

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2. Populism, Authenticity, & the Pathology of Politics (08:29–11:27)

• Comparison to Trump’s Strategy:
  • Palmeri notes the similarity in outsider populist appeal between El-Sayed and Trump, on both left and right.
  • El-Sayed strongly rebuts parallels (“There is very little similarity between me and Donald Trump. Dude grew up as a Nepo baby...” 09:05), positioning his campaign as rooted in service and authenticity rather than opportunism.
• Motivation for Politics:
  • Draws from his medical background, seeing poor health as a result of failed systems and policies.
  • “Donald Trump is… just the worst symptom. The disease is the system that allows big corporations and special interests to buy and sell politicians...” (07:17)

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3. Persuasion, Policy, and Legislative Gridlock (11:27–16:37)

• Policy vs. Gridlock: Palmeri challenges El-Sayed on how an outsider can turn activism into results in a gridlocked Senate.
  • El-Sayed leans heavily on persuasion: “My conversation is not just with 99 other senators. It's with the 350 million people who elected all of us.” (12:49)
  • Shares a story of winning over skeptical voters by focusing on universal needs like healthcare (12:49–15:35)
• Identity Politics: Addresses overcoming voters’ biases:
  • “Turns out I don’t need you to like me. I need you to like you enough to believe that you actually deserve nice things.” (14:05)
  • Reflects on being an outsider raised between cultures, focusing on common needs rather than tribal identities. (16:37)

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4. The Challenge of Coalition-Building (16:37–19:43)

• Connecting Across Difference:
  • “The things that bind us are usually a lot bigger than the things that divide us... Government is supposed to buy you out of impossible decisions in your life and give you the basic firmament to be able to build your dreams. Like, that is what government's supposed to do.” (16:37)
• RFK Jr. and Public Health:
  • “Was it worth it now that we have a measles outbreak?... was it worth it for you to make a couple hundred thousand bucks?” (18:39)

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5. Embracing Controversy: Hasan Piker, Israel, and Big Donors (21:36–26:20)

• On Hasan Piker and Political Gatekeeping:
  • Refuses to “disavow” Piker, arguing for broad coalition-building and open dialogue, regardless of agreement.
  • “Somehow, because Hasan and I have similar names, that people want to hold me accountable for what he said… but Fox News and CNN covering our campaign… Well, it turns out he's about getting money out of politics, putting money in your pocket and passing Medicare for all. And they’ll get. I’d be like, well, I like that.” (22:12)
• Israel & Foreign Aid:
  • Reframes the controversy over Israel toward a debate on US tax dollars:
    “You want to tell me that the best use of my tax dollars is to send them to buy a bomb or a tank for a country that's committing apartheid and genocide?... The real question is about what should we use our money for?” (23:34)
  • Also criticizes US military aid to Egypt, his family's country of origin, for broader consistency.

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6. The Power and Peril of Alternative Media (26:20–30:38)

• Media’s Role in Democracy:
  • Defends engaging with all media platforms, whether Fox News, podcasts, or controversial streamers.
  • “The reason I come on your show is because there are people who pay attention to what you have to say, and I want to talk to them… if Fox and Friends wants me, I'll do the same thing.” (28:06)
  • Argues that shunning audiences because of their media diet is a threat to democracy: “...when you shut the door on some creator or another, what you are doing is saying that the people who pay attention to that person, they do not deserve a pathway back into our politics.” (29:32)

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7. Drawing the Line — Who’s "Off the Table"? (30:38–31:39)

• Limits on Engagement:
  • Stresses willingness to debate almost anyone, but won’t compromise values or lie.
  • “I say the same thing to everybody, whether I'm on Hasan, whether I'm on Fox and Friends, whether I'm talking to you. I believe that our politics ought to be about getting money out of politics, putting money in your pocket and passing Medicare for all. I will take that message anywhere and everywhere, okay?” (31:19)

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8. On Sitting Down with Trump and Working Across Aisle (31:39–34:51)

• Would He Meet Trump?: Palmeri asks if he’d meet with President Trump if in office.
  • “He's the President of the United States. I think he's a narcissistic asshole who's not unfit for office. I also understand that he's the President of the United States. You don't think I'll tell that to him to his face? You don't know me very well.” (31:52)
  • Would work with anyone to advance his priorities—but "will not kowtow."
  • Joking ribbing of Ohio to end on a lighter note: “Look, I'll just tell you, it's just like a lesser state. I mean, like it exists to hold up Michigan. That's the only reason Ohio exists.” (33:52)

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9. Rapid Fire — Politics and Lessons Learned (34:51–36:26)

• Democrat Closest Politically: “Bernie is the OG. Is the go. I’m deeply grateful for his support.” (35:02)
• Republican He Respects: The “Governor of Utah. I felt that his, his leadership following the assassination of Charlie Kirk was really admirable.” (35:35)
• Biggest 2024 Democratic Mistake:
  • “Ignoring the hypocrisy on values when it comes to human rights in Gaza and being beholden to corporate money generally to run campaigns.” (35:51)
• If He Loses:
  • “I didn't build the kind of relationship I needed to with folks in the state of Michigan.” (36:05)
• If He Wins — Day One Changes:
  • “I will redouble the fight to get money out of politics, to pass the PRO Act, to tax billionaires their wealth, and to pass Medicare for all.” (36:17)

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Notable Quotes

• “Turns out I don’t need you to like me. I need you to like you enough to believe that you actually deserve nice things.” – Dr. Abdul El-Sayed (14:05)
• “When you shut the door on some creator or another, what you are doing is saying that the people who pay attention to that person, they do not deserve a pathway back into our politics.” – Dr. Abdul El-Sayed (29:32)
• “You don't think I'll tell that to him to his face? You don't know me very well.” – Dr. Abdul El-Sayed, on Trump (31:52)
• “Ignoring the hypocrisy on values when it comes to human rights in Gaza and being beholden to corporate money generally to run campaigns.” – Dr. Abdul El-Sayed, on Democrats’ 2024 mistake (35:51)
• “[Ohio] exists to hold up Michigan. That's the only reason Ohio exists.” – Dr. Abdul El-Sayed, jokingly (33:52)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Opening, Michigan Senate context: 00:48–05:31
• Populism and outsider comparison: 08:29–11:27
• On getting things done in gridlock: 11:27–16:37
• Identity, unity, and “tribes”: 16:37–19:43
• RFK Jr., vaccines, public health: 18:26–19:43
• On Hasan Piker and Democratic divides over Israel: 21:36–26:20
• Role and risk of podcasting/social media: 26:20–30:38
• Media, democracy, and outreach philosophy: 29:32–31:39
• Trump, bipartisanship, Ohio rivalry: 31:39–34:51
• Rapid fire—political identities and lessons: 34:51–36:26

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Tone & Character

Dr. Abdul El-Sayed comes across as unwaveringly consistent, unapologetic, and animated in defending his principles. He is witty, quick to challenge false equivalencies, and emphasizes policy substance and populist ideals. The tone between host and guest is probing but often playful, especially in local rivalries and rapid-fire questions.

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For Listeners

This episode provides a nuanced look at what motivates outsider progressive campaigns, what the practical obstacles are to legislative change, and how politicians navigate identity, controversy, and media in today’s political landscape. If you’re following insurgent progressive strategies or the Michigan Senate race, it’s essential listening.

Transcript

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[Tara Palmeri]

Would you sit down with him? Listen and try to work.

[Dr. Abdul El Sayed]

He's the President of the United States. I think he's a narcissistic who's unfit for office. You don't think I'll tell that to him to his face? You don't know me very well.

[Tara Palmeri]

Welcome back to the Tara Palmeri Show. All eyes are suddenly on the Michigan Senate race where candidate Abdul El Said is running an un unapologetic outsider campaign. He's challenging the Democratic establishment like Chuck Schumer. He's refusing to disavow controversial voices like Hassan Piker, who he campaigned with. And he's leaning into a populist message that sounds like a combination of Zoran Mamdani meets President Trump. But here's the question, can that kind of outsider politics actually do anything once it's inside the Washington machine? We get into all of it and as usual, it gets feisty. Dr. Abdul El Sayed, thank you for joining the show. So much news this week, especially in Michigan. Your opponent, Mallory McMorrow, some of her old tweets resurfaced where she appeared to disparage the state in which she is running, said she never wished she left California. Even being upset about the weather in Michigan, do you make of this? Do you think she should drop out?

[Dr. Abdul El Sayed]

Well, the weather can be upsetting at times, but we actually love it here because this is a state where we are blessed with some of the most beautiful freshwater in the world, where we've got, more importantly, the best people. And it's a place that's defined by its combination of earnestness and grittiness. I was born and raised here, proud of having gone to public schools and public university here. And as soon as I could come back, I did. I'm proud to raise my kids here. So I like Michigan and I hope that anybody who wants to represent Michigan, in the US Senate or anywhere, likes Michigan, too.

[Tara Palmeri]

So do you think she should drop out?

[Dr. Abdul El Sayed]

That is not my decision to make. I'm a lot more focused on building a relationship with fellow Michiganders, explaining to them why I like them and I like Michigan. And at the end of the day, that's a conversation for her and the voters. Right. She's going to have to answer why she said what she said and what it means about her relationship with them. I think we take the horse race of a lot of these races far too seriously. I'm a lot more interested in this race, in building an indelible relationship with the good people in my state. A relationship that I've had now since I was born. A relationship that I've made a lot deeper in the work that I've done in public service as Detroit's Health Director and then Wayne County's Department of Health, Human and Veteran Services Director, and as a candidate both for governor in 2018 and for U.S. senate now. And what I'll tell you is this. Traveling across my state, you can't help but fall in love with the good people in the state. These are folks who work hard and they deserve a lot more than what they're getting getting from their politicians, both in Lansing and D.C. and you do feel some of that contempt sometimes from those politicians. It feels like they're governing against people, trying to make it harder for them to be able to afford the means of a dignified life. I'm somebody who is a doctor and I fell into public service when I started to ask questions about why is it that people get sick in the first place. And I've tried to bring that love of people to everything I've done in government and to this campaign. And I'll tell you, across the 90 cities that I've visited, 350 public events, I think now all I've seen is just more reason to love, admire and serve the people in this incredible state.

[Tara Palmeri]

Yeah, I was really surprised to see that and hear that because she is the majority Whip in the state Senate. She had this breakout moment, this viral moment in one of her speeches. And actually, you know, a lot of the establishment players in Michigan and Washington, they really liked her a lot. I mean, she's not back by Chuck Schumer the way that your other opponent, Haley Stevens is. But, you know, she had a lot of promise and I think there are a lot of questions right now about that, but she's not dropping out of the race. It's a, it's interesting to see that all sort of like resurface at this moment.

[Dr. Abdul El Sayed]

I guess the reason I do want to, I do want to make a note right. Chuck Schumer has, has basically said he's fine with either of the other two. He came out initially he was backing Congresswoman Stevens. Now he's fine with either McMorrow or Stevens. And it should tell you a little bit about my approach to governing. I'm not somebody who takes orders from the top down. I'm not somebody who goes into a dark room, tells the donors or the political professionals what they want to hear, and then goes and says something else to the public. I've been saying the same thing for eight years since I ran for governor, same thing since I started in public service. I believe that our government is corrupted by the power of big corporations and politicians who do their bidding rather than the well being of the public, which should be motivating all of our public service. And so the fact that, that Chuck Schumer seems to oppose me in this primary should tell you everything you need to know about who I actually serve.

[Tara Palmeri]

Yeah, no, it's interesting and you guys are all sort of neck and neck right now in the polls. About 25%. Just looking at like aggregate polls, Mallory is now falling behind. It's, it's really fascinating to see that, that despite not having establishment support, you said you don't take PAC money, which must be very difficult to campaign without it. You are still, you're still competitive. I mean, how, how do you run without PAC money? I know, I know you have a lot of, you know, small donors, but that must have been a little, you know, scary to, to strike out on your own. I, I have to assume you're not able to practice as frequently you, as a doctor. So your, your income is probably taking a hit from this. But what's it like?

[Dr. Abdul El Sayed]

So I don't take corporate money. I never have, I never will. I'm the only candidate in this race, Democrat or Republican, who never has and never will. But when people understand that you're fighting to serve them, when you're focused on their affordability, when you're focused on whether or not they send their kids to a good school, when you're focused on the question of why we send our money abroad to buy bombs and tanks for foreign governments, when our own kids can't get a quality school or health care, people realize that they want to support that. And so we've had donors from all over the country who've given to this campaign 5 bucks, 10 bucks helping to support this race. Right. I do this full time. You know, I had to leave my job as Wayne County's Department of Health, Human and Veterans Services Director to be able to do this. But I also know that I'm not willing to stand idly by while politicians tell us what we shouldn't fight for and corporations tell us what we can't have. I think the people in the state of Michigan understand that we have been ill served by politicians both in Lansing and D.C. because too often they're bought off by the same corporations who are charging us an arm and a leg for everything from our utilities to our healthcare, and that we can do so much better. And my message hasn't changed. I ran on the same issues back in 2018. I said something at the time I think folks weren't ready to hear, which is that Donald Trump is not himself. The disease of our politics, he's just the worst symptom. The disease is the system that allows big corporations and special interests to buy and sell. Politicians and both of my opponents in this primary have been part and part parcel of that system. When you're voting to give data center corporations tax breaks to build data centers in people's backyards, when you're voting to oppose things like Medicare for all in our state, it tells you a lot about where your values are. And so we're succeeding in this race because people understand that there is an opportunity to think beyond our politics. I'm not supposed to run for office. I'm not baked and polished. I'm the wrong color, I pray the wrong way. My family comes from the wrong place. I got the wrong name. I know all those reasons. But. But I also got two little girls at home, ethnically half Egyptian like me, ethnically half Indian like their mom, 100% American. And they're growing up in an America where they have fewer rights than their immigrant grandparents had. And I'm just not willing to sit idly by. And so it's not surprising to me across the 90 cities I've visited that people are resonating with this campaign. They want to see something different in their politics, and they see this in this race.

[Tara Palmeri]

What I'm hearing is a very populous playbook, I guess you could say left wing populism, same as Bernie Sanders, same as aoc. But it's not that different than the way that President Donald Trump came out of the gates against the establishment. I don't believe corporations were helping him either when he was first in the Republican primary. I don't think Anyone wanted anything to do with him eventually, obviously had huge name donors getting behind him, like Miriam Adelson after he had won the nomination. But he was an outsider. I mean, do you think that Democrats are essentially adopting his strategy and that they should be?

[Dr. Abdul El Sayed]

There is very little similarity between me and Donald Trump. Dude grew up as a Nepo baby. You know, my folks were educators. I studied to become a doctor. I probably maxed out on the amount of school that I could do. The man clearly has never studied a thing in his life. And this is a guy who's certainly, certainly benefiting from corporations now. I mean, I think he's made what, $4 billion off of the presidency alone. I'm a physician who rebuilt health departments origins in politics. And I ran eight years ago saying the same thing. So I don't think in playbooks, I don't think in left and right. My question is, why do people get sick and how do we do something about it? And as someone who graduated from medical school watching as the people who I was taking care of clearly were suffering at the end of a pathology of politics, more so even than the pathologies in their own bodies, the air they breathe, the water that they drink, whether or not they could see a doctor in the first place, I got real curious about what we could do about it. And all of this sits at the end of a system in which corporations have bought off politicians. And I've been saying it for eight years, this is not a message that I happened to find for this race. It's a thing I've been saying, talk to anybody in Michigan, they'll sell you. Abdul's been saying the same thing for eight years since I ran for office the first time. Because it's true. If you can't afford to buy healthy food for your kids, if you're worried about whether or not your job's going to be there for you tomorrow, if you can't see a doctor when you get sick, yeah, you're going to be sicker. You're going to be the poorer for it and you're going to be the more insecure for all of it. And so I've been trying to talk about these issues everywhere I can, trying to solve them in the work that I did in Detroit and Wayne county, putting glasses on kids faces in public schools for free, taking on big corporate polluters, eliminating upwards of $700 million of medical debt. And so it might be that the electorate has now moved in this particular direction, but I think people have been searching for an authentic candidate who's willing to talk about the issues honestly for a very long time. And it might just be somebody who's got a name that's all wrong, who prays the wrong way, who comes from a part of the world that we're told that politicians cannot come from, who was born and raised in Michigan and loves my state and loves its people. So, you know, I'm just trying to build that relationship with Michigander, show them who I am and who I have been and what I've done because of who I am and I hope from the best from there.

[Tara Palmeri]

Yeah, I mean, we have had moments, political waves that have ushered in people with different names like Zoran Mamdani or Barack Obama who maybe don't fit the typical white Christian nationalist profile in America, as we've seen in politics. But I do want to just talk to you about the realities of getting elected and getting into into the Senate. And obviously Medicare for all is a great idea. And Americans, I'm sure, are behind you from both sides of the aisle. I mean, President Trump basically ran on the same thing as well. Obviously, in practice, he has not done that. He's probably, he's gutted our healthcare. But once you get into office, you have to deal with moderate, not only you have to deal with moderate Democrats and Republicans. It's not like Democrats are going to have a sweeping majority in the Senate. They can't. It's not even in the map. You may end up actually really disappointing the people that voted for you because you just can't get past the partisan gridlock. For example, like aoc, wonderful communicator, raises a ton of money, really hasn't passed any legislation at all. I mean, how do you, how do you actually become effectual in, in Washington when it is a town that thrives on gridlock?

[Dr. Abdul El Sayed]

Yeah, Well, I take seriously the idea that politics is about persuasion. And one of the lessons that I think we should all take from our history is that when Donald Trump came down that hideous golden escalator back in 2015, nobody was talking about immigration, but he used it to try and explain wrongly all of the things that people were facing in their lives. If you're out of a jobs because an immigrant took your job out of health care because immigrants took health care out of a home, immigrants living in your home. It's all bullshit. None of it's true, but it was an effective message and he used it, in effect, to weaponize the idea of immigration against the Constitution itself in the form of ice. What would happen if we actually were willing to take seriously the idea that we can persuade people to see things our way. My conversation is not just with 99 other senators. It's with the 350 million people who elected all of us. And I'm looking forward to having that conversation about what we need and deserve. And if I've learned anything campaigning up and down my state, it's that unlikely. People who you would think would have no time for somebody who looks like me with a name like mine are coming out to our events. I had a guy come up to me up north. He said, you know, I don't like you. I was like, okay, well, I like you. He's like, I know, and I'm gonna vote for you. I was like, what? He's like, yeah, because I think you really want me to have healthcare. I was like, I really want you to have health care. It's like, I either thought you were dumb or you really wanted me to have health care. I came here. You're clearly not dumb. And I think you really want me to have health care. I know what a doctor can make. So why are you spending all this time, except for you really, really want me to have something? I was like, I get. I understand, but. And then I asked him, I was like, so why don't you like me? He's like, well, because you're Muslim. I was like, okay. Well, it turns out I don't need you to like me. I need you to like you enough to believe that you actually deserve nice things. And I'm willing to have that conversation up and down our country. So, yeah, I understand that there are moderates and there are Republicans who may not believe in Medicare for all now, but what we have to do is have the courage of our convictions to go and have conversations in unlikely places rather than giving up on people because we have the truth on our side. At the end of the day, if you're out of a job, it's not because an immigrant took your job. It's because a corporation figured out how to offshore and automate your job. If you're out of a home, it's not because a immigrant is living in your home. It's because we haven't built enough housing, in large part because corporations are more interested in building housing for really, really rich people, and they're speculating on housing that exists. If you're out of health care, it's definitely not because an immigrant took your healthcare. It's definitely because a corporate insurance company or a pharmaceutical company bought off our system. They're consolidating hospitals and they're squeezing everyone, patients and providers out. We have better answers. The problem with it is that Democrats are too often bought off by the corporations who are part of the problem rather than part of the solution. I'm not. So it frees me to actually have an honest conversation about what the real problem is and what we do about it. And I'm having that conversation now in 90 cities across the state, and I'm planning to have that conversation up and down our country until we actually secure Medicare for all. We've got to stop giving up on our ideals and start fighting for them. Hey, want a cookie? Oh, I know you just ate, so

[Tara Palmeri]

you're craving something a little sweet.

[Dr. Abdul El Sayed]

Besides, one cookie isn't good to kill you. How about half?

[Tara Palmeri]

Just a bite. Bite it.

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[Tara Palmeri]

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[Dr. Abdul El Sayed]

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[Tara Palmeri]

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[Dr. Abdul El Sayed]

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[Tara Palmeri]

So what I'm hearing is politics first, apply pressure for policy. But I do want to. You know, what I'm hearing from you is that a lot of these voters are willing to throw away Democratic purity tests to vote for you or to vote for an outsider who they feel like will actually create momentum and cause change. And yeah, they're perhaps willing to look past what they perceive as identity difference. And, you know, the Democratic Party has really thrived on identity politics in a lot of ways.

[Dr. Abdul El Sayed]

If I can make a comment here. You know, I was raised by my dad, who's an Egyptian immigrant, and my stepmom, Jackie, who's the daughter of the American Revolution. I understood pretty early in my life that I didn't belong to any tribe. I was always an outsider everywhere I went. And one of the things that that teaches you is that the things that bind us are usually a lot bigger than the things that divide us. When your grandmother looks you in the eye and makes your favorite meal and tells you it's going to be okay, it is done with the same love. And I'm trying to lock in on the things we all need and deserve. I think it's really important for us to recognize that in the end, all of us are people who want the same things. We have the same anxieties. When we look our kids in the eye, we want the same things for them. And if we're serious about those Things. The rest of it is just details. People want someone who's going to really go and fight to make their life easier. I got no business running for office. Everybody knows that. So the only reason I'm doing is because at the end of the day, like, I knew what my life should have been. I. It's an accident of history. I was supposed to grow up in Egypt, like, driving cabs like the rest of my cousins. That is not my life. And it's not my life because of this incredible country, this incredible country that needs to be this incredible country for everyone. And my goal ultimately put all the chips in the middle and say, what does it look like for us to actually fight for each other again? What does it look for, like, for us to get back to the basics of what government is supposed to be, which is supposed to buy you out of impossible decisions in your life and give you the basic firmament to be able to build your dreams. Like, that is what government's supposed to do. Not that hard. I've studied complicated, complicated things. This is not one of them. And I just think that we get so caught up in the ridiculous horse race of it all, the left and the right, and who's going to say what about whom? How much money is going to get spent? At the end of the day, if you just cut through all of that and you recognize that this is about people talking to each other about what they need and deserve, it gets a lot easier.

[Tara Palmeri]

Got it. So you come from, obviously, a medical background. You've led Health Services in Wayne County. If you had a chance to grill Robert F. Kennedy in a congressional hearing, what would be the first thing you ask him?

[Dr. Abdul El Sayed]

I mean, really, the first thing I'd ask him is, like, why would you take your grandkids swimming in a creek that's chock full of bacteria? Like, what the fuck? Like, why would you do that? But then beyond that is to say, how much money have you made on your grift? You tell people that vaccines are bad for them, but, like, you then sell them the alternative? How much money have you made? And was it worth it now that we have a measles outbreak? Was it worth it now that we're in a situation in which our entire public health infrastructure is crumbling? Was it worth it? And in the end, he'll probably justify it as he's a crusader for X, Y and Z, but, like, I guess that's what a brainworm does to you. But I really want to understand, was it worth it? Because there are millions of people we talk about all the deadly things this, this, this, this terrible administration is doing. You look at the war in Iran and the people who have died and the service members who've given their lives for a war we never should have fought. That's like the acute part of the illness of Trumpism. The chronic part is what RFK Jr is doing to undercut our entire public health infrastructure. And I just want to understand from his perspective, was it worth it for you to make a couple hundred thousand bucks?

[Tara Palmeri]

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[Tara Palmeri]

I would I do want to ask you about Hassan Piker. You've campaigned with him. He's seen as a boogeyman for the right and now the left. I mean for some of his controversial statements like America deserve 9 11, his comments about Israel and you know you've argued that it's critical for Democrats to embrace voices like his, even while the party disagrees. Are you worried that aligning with a figure like him could cost you votes?

[Dr. Abdul El Sayed]

Tara, do you agree with everything I have to say?

[Tara Palmeri]

No.

[Dr. Abdul El Sayed]

Do you think I agree with everything you think? No, probably not. So. And we're still having a nice amicable conversation. Why? Because you talk to a lot of people I'd like to talk to. So it's the same story whether it's Hassan Piker or going on Fox and Friends. I'm not going to be held accountable for anything you said, but somehow, because Hasan and I have similar names, that people want to hold me accountable for what he said, even though Vice President Harris invited him to stream from the DNC back in 2024. I don't know. I just don't take this whole thing seriously. At the end of the day, what's happening is that I am a direct threat to the money making machine by which big corporations buy and sell politicians to do their bidding. And they see me as a threat. So they're going to try and do everything they can. And they hate it when I'm off talking to people. And I'll just tell you, since we've campaigned with Hasan, we've watched our numbers jump in the polls. Why? Because people understand that they're sick and tired of being told who they can and can't listen to. And it's just gotten more attention on me, right? Fox News and CNN covering our campaign. And then people are paying attention. Be like, what's that guy about? Well, it turns out he's about getting money out of politics, putting money in your pocket and passing Medicare for all. And they'll get. I'd be like, well, I like that.

[Tara Palmeri]

Yeah. But it does come down to the rift in the Democratic Party over Israel.

[Dr. Abdul El Sayed]

So here's my question. You know, everybody wants to make it about Israel. My question is about what is the proper use of our tax dollars? I'm from Michigan, and here in Michigan we got schools that can't afford to heat themselves in the middle of the winter. We've got roads that are crumbling, our literacy rates are tumbling, and people can't get health care. And you want to tell me that the best use of my tax dollars is to send them to buy a bomb or a tank for a country that's committing apartheid and genocide? Like, how does that make sense to me? How does that make sense to anybody in Michigan? The real question is about what should we use our money for? Now it's A pretty crazy thing that a whole lot of people in Washington, D.C. from a whole lot of states that got a lot of similarities to ours, think that the best use of our tax dollars is to give bombs and tanks to a country that has universal health care and universal college. That doesn't make any sense to me. It doesn't make any sense to most people who are paying attention. Now the question becomes why? Well, because there's $100 million super PAC that exists to literally blanket the airwaves with attack ads against anybody who says what I just said. They've called me the single most dangerous candidate for the US Israel relationship. That's because I'm the single best candidate for the Abdul Michigan relationship, for the D.C. michigan relationship. Because I want to keep my money here. I want to buy health care here, I want to buy schools here. I want to make sure that people can afford basic things here rather than sending my money over there. And look, I'll just tell you this. The second biggest recipient of foreign military aid is Egypt, where my family came from. And let's just start there. I don't think they should get bombs and tanks either. So if you want to call me anything, call me anti Egyptian, but it's all ridiculous. This is not a serious conversation for serious people.

[Tara Palmeri]

I, I, I want to go back to the whole idea where you're, like, you said, well, Tara, you, I'm, you're on my, I'm on your show. We don't agree. But it's different when you appear on Fox and Friends or you appear on a podcast when someone's out there campaigning for you, essentially endorsing you. It's not the same type of relationship. It's a stamp of approval. It's the same thing as if RFK Jr was campaigning for you.

[Dr. Abdul El Sayed]

Well, except for we don't agree on basic things. Here's the thing about it. People want to take a guy who streams for eight hours every single day, take what he says out of context, and then hold you accountable for the things he says out of context. The truth is, I agree that we should be keeping our money here at home. I agree that people should have guaranteed health care. I agree that our country shouldn't backstop a country that does genocides. Those are things we agree on. And the fact that he supports me because we agree on those things, well, he's communicating to the 3 million people plus who follow him about what those values are. That doesn't mean I agree with everything he's ever said. And it's pretty Ridiculous to try and take things that he said out of context and tie them around me as if I agree with those things and people know better. I mean, this is the thing about it. It's, like, funny. You got, like. You got, like, serious people clear.

[Tara Palmeri]

I mean, some of the stuff he said is really clear. And, like, we hear this, too, from politicians all the time. Like, oh, you're taking Trump out of context. You're taking him literally. Like, this is something that I've heard.

[Dr. Abdul El Sayed]

He's literally started a war. He's literally profited off of our government. He has literally funded ICE to the tune of $185 billion and been single, mainly responsible for what's been done to Renee Goode and Alex Preddy. It's not out of context. It's like the stuff he actually did when he was in office. So, yeah, like, I think we should take him literally and figuratively. And he's also a politician and the President of the United States. Hassan is a twitch streamer.

[Tara Palmeri]

Yeah. With a lot of influence. And if we've seen everything in the past.

[Dr. Abdul El Sayed]

My guy talks at a screen for eight hours a day, and you want to tell me that he's similar to the President of the United States? The guy is the President of the United States of America. He's got the nuclear codes.

[Tara Palmeri]

Not the same, I know, but in an attention economy, that is power.

[Dr. Abdul El Sayed]

Are you actually defending the idea that Hassan is as powerful as the President United States? Are you really defending.

[Tara Palmeri]

I think President Trump is actually very concerned about the conversations over podcasts and in media. Yeah, media is very powerful.

[Dr. Abdul El Sayed]

It is.

[Tara Palmeri]

It is a very.

[Dr. Abdul El Sayed]

Which is exactly why you should go and talk to as many people as you possibly can about the things that you believe in. Which is exactly what I do when I go on Fox and Friends. Come on your show or campaign with Hasan Piker.

[Tara Palmeri]

Yeah. I just think. I mean, even from what you've said to me about when you end up in Washington, if you win, getting past partisan deadlock, you've basically said, I'm going to speak directly to the people. Which means that you're going to try to use the power of the media to effectuate change.

[Dr. Abdul El Sayed]

Absolutely. Which is exactly what I'm doing. Right. The reason I come on your show is because there are people who pay attention to what you have to say, and I want to talk to them. I like to talk to you, too. You're very nice, but I want to talk to them. Same with Hassan. I want to talk to the people he's talking to. Every single day. If, if Bill Maher, who said awful things about Muslims, invited me, guess what I would do? I would go on a show and I would talk to them through him. And if Fox and Friends wants me, I'll do the same thing. This is about whether or not we think that it is appropriate for some media to gatekeep other media because they are a threat to their financial system. Because that's really what's happening right now. Right. So at the end of the day, I've been consistent. I am going to go and talk to anyone with whom I can have a conversation about inviting you back into a politics that's about getting money out of politics, putting money in your pocket and passing Medicare for All. And if they support me and want to come and support me and tell their listeners why they support me because I want to get money out of politics, put money in your pocket and pass Medicare for all. Absolutely phenomenal. Come through to Michigan, we'll create space for that. But I'm not going to be held accountable for everything you ever said because that would be ultimately ridiculous. Now, when the President United States says stuff, he's the actual President of the United States, he has real power beyond his influence of what people think about him because he commands the entire United States military, which he has used to drop bombs on countries to kidnap a foreign leader. Right. To fund a lot of things that are inconsistent with our best interests. That is a different thing. And so I just want to be clear that the media has its role and I'm trying to engage with the media in a good faith approach to talking about what it looks like to build a politics that actually does those things. When I'm a US Senator, hold me accountable for the things that I vote for and the procedures that I engage with because I will be an elected official. But for right now, right, Even then, I want to have conversations, even when I'm elected official about what we need to do. Here's the crazy thing to me though, people, when you, when you shut the door on some creator or another, what you are doing is saying that the people who pay attention to that person, they do not deserve a pathway back into our politics. And if we're serious about democracy, democracy ought to be the pathway by which people come back to a political system that is about helping us to resolve our conflicts peaceably. We want people to feel like they have a role in a stake in our political system rather than to shun them because they pay attention to one creator or another. So I feel like it's a dangerous thing to say. Oh, you can't talk to them or these others because, well, these people ought to have the door closed on them. I'm not closing the door on anybody. I never will. So I think it's important for us to go have these conversations with as many people as we possibly can, even if they said some things we disagree with.

[Tara Palmeri]

Is there anyone off the table for you?

[Dr. Abdul El Sayed]

Let's see what the bounds of the conversation are. There are a lot of people who've said things that, like, I'm, like, look, I'm, you know, we're. You and I are going to have a debate. And even, even with, with Hasan, he and I are going to agree with everything. And we've had those conversations. I just think that it's important for us to realize that we need a political system in this moment that understands that the bounds of our debate has changed substantially. We're not in a world where there are three channels anymore in which everybody kind of says the same thing. And so how do you engage in a world as a politician where people are listening to all kinds of different creators? I think we want politicians who have the courage to go on different platforms and have those conversations with all kinds of people about what they need and deserve. And here's the thing about me that you're always going to get. I say the same thing to everybody, whether I'm on Hasan, whether I'm on Fox and Friends, whether I'm talking to you. I believe that our politics ought to be about getting money out of politics, putting money in your pocket and passing Medicare for all. I will take that message anywhere and everywhere, okay?

[Tara Palmeri]

And even to the White House. I mean, Zoran Mamdani, who, sure, you've been compared to you would sit down with Trump just like Gretchen Whitmer, who had her famous binder over her face. I mean, would you sit down with him? Listen and try to work.

[Dr. Abdul El Sayed]

He's the President of the United States. I think he's a narcissistic asshole who's not unfit for office. I also understand that he's the President of the United States. You don't think I'll tell that to him to his face? You don't know me very well, but he's the President of the United States.

[Tara Palmeri]

You're not going to get done what you want to get done. Because obviously, Zoran Mamdani worked his charms on Trump. He's in love with the guy.

[Dr. Abdul El Sayed]

We, we don't, we don't know what he said behind closed doors. I'LL just tell you this. I'm willing to work with anyone to advance the goals of getting money out of politics, putting money in your pocket and passing Medicare for all. You know, I don't agree with Donald Trump on much. There's very, very little that we agree on. But one of the things that I understand about the man is that he respects people who don't back down to him. I don't back down to anybody. So, you know, you're going to have to deal with me as the next senator from Michigan. I believe deeply what I have learned about the man, watching him work for the past 11 years in American politics. But if there's something that we can get done together to get money out of politics, I'm happy to work together to get that done. I'll fight you on all the other stuff, figuratively, of course. But at the end of the day, we've got to be serious about the fact that he is the president and we are going to have to get stuff done. But I'm not going to kowtow to him. I'm not going to just whisper sweet nothings into his ear. I'm going to tell him what I think because I tell everybody what I think.

[Tara Palmeri]

But what if that doesn't get anything done?

[Dr. Abdul El Sayed]

Well, you know what I mean. Then at this point, we'll beat him in an election in 2028. We'll elect somebody who's willing to get those things done and we'll look forward to getting the important things done for the American public.

[Tara Palmeri]

But in the meantime, people will suffer.

[Dr. Abdul El Sayed]

So you asked me if I'd be willing to sit down with him. Yeah, I'd be willing to sit down with him. Yeah. On my terms.

[Tara Palmeri]

But that might not last very long. He may kick you out immediately.

[Dr. Abdul El Sayed]

He might kick me out immediately. Fine. Then I'll just walk outside, tell everybody why he kicked me out, and. And we'll look forward to beating whoever his hand picked acolyte, probably J.D. vance from Ohio, which is, I hate to say it, the worst state in the union, will beat him in election in 2028.

[Tara Palmeri]

Wait, where does that come from?

[Dr. Abdul El Sayed]

I'm from Michigan. We hate Ohio.

[Tara Palmeri]

Oh, okay, Yeah, I wouldn't understand that. Not from that region.

[Dr. Abdul El Sayed]

Look, I'll just tell you, it's just like a lesser state. I mean, like it exists to hold up Michigan. That's the only reason Ohio exists. And I'll tell that to everybody from Ohio. Like, you know, I love the good people in Ohio, but you're welcome to come to Michigan we have better lakes, we have better weather, we have better food. You're welcome to come, but for the rest of you all, we're stuck in Ohio and the Ohio State University. I said what I said, well, one

[Tara Palmeri]

day, if you ever run for president, that clip will be played.

[Dr. Abdul El Sayed]

I'm sure it's okay. I'm probably going to lose Ohio anyway. I'm just not going to go and campaign there. 149 states lost Ohio. And you know what? Honestly, I'd wear that as a badge of pride. But also, also no interest in running for president. I want to be senator for Michigan. I want to fight the good fight as a U.S. senator.

[Tara Palmeri]

Yeah.

[Dr. Abdul El Sayed]

I want to get some important things done.

[Tara Palmeri]

I've heard that one before, though, you know, no interest, not interested at all.

[Dr. Abdul El Sayed]

Look, you cast the hypothetical about losing the state of Ohio, and the only world in which I'm even interested in earning votes in Ohio is that situation. So I'll tell you, maybe it's just that I don't want votes from Ohio, so I'll never run for that office.

[Tara Palmeri]

All right, all right. Um, let's. Let's wrap this up with a rapid fire question, so keep it snappy. Which Democrat are you closest to politically?

[Dr. Abdul El Sayed]

I mean, Bernie is the OG Is the go. I'm deeply grateful for his support. But I'll tell you, there are so many people up and down my state. Folks whose names you probably don't know from whom. I've. I've learned a lot. Folks who are doing the good work up and down the state. I think about the county executive in Wayne County. Somebody who's been a public servant for nearly 50 years.

[Tara Palmeri]

Snappy.

[Dr. Abdul El Sayed]

Well, all right.

[Tara Palmeri]

County, State. Okay, fine. Sorry, I gotta keep this on.

[Progressive Insurance Announcer]

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[Tara Palmeri]

Which Republican do you respect the most? No Rhinos?

[Dr. Abdul El Sayed]

No, like, oh, Governor. The governor of Utah. I felt that his, his leadership following the assassination of Charlie Kirk was really admirable.

[Tara Palmeri]

Okay. Biggest mistake Democrats made in 2024 in one sentence. One sentence.

[Dr. Abdul El Sayed]

Ignoring the hypocrisy on values when it comes to human rights in Gaza and being beholden to corporate money generally to run campaigns.

[Tara Palmeri]

If you lose, what will it be because of?

[Dr. Abdul El Sayed]

I didn't build the kind of relationship I needed to with folks in the state of Michigan.

[Tara Palmeri]

If you win, what changes will you make on day one?

[Dr. Abdul El Sayed]

I will redouble the fight to get money out of politics, to pass the pro act, to tax billionaires their wealth, and to pass Medicare for all.

[Tara Palmeri]

All right, thank you so much for your time. We will keep an eye on this campaign. I don't think in this, in this political era, it is impossible with someone with your name and profile. I think we've seen a lot happening this political tide. So right now you're tied and we, you know, we shall see. August 4th primary.

[Dr. Abdul El Sayed]

Well, I'm looking forward to it. And whenever you invite me, I'm coming back because you know what? I go everywhere and talk to everyone. Terara has been a privilege. And if I can just say, look, I hope that folks will. If I've said anything that's inspired you, go to abdul4senate.com get involved, drop us off. Five bucks. Ten bucks. I don't take corporate money. I'm the only one who doesn't in my race. And sign up to volunteer. We need you out here.

[Tara Palmeri]

Okay. Thank you so much for your time.

[Dr. Abdul El Sayed]

Thanks, Tara.

[Tara Palmeri]

That was another episode of the Tara Palmieri Show. Thanks so much for tuning in. You can, of course, support this kind of independent journalism by going to tarapalmieri.com. it's where you can get my all of my exclusive reporting straight to your inbox by becoming a paid subscriber. By doing that, you also support me and my mission to bring you more free and transparent journalism. I want to thank my producer, Diane Schiffmacher, Abby Baker, who booked this interview, produced, and who handles my social media. I want to thank Adam Stewart, who does these amazing graphics, and Dan Rosen, my manager. I will be back soon. And thank you to all of you for sticking in there with me while I get through this nasally cold. I know it must not sound so great on your end, but I appreciate you guys and I will see you again in a few days.

[Tamsen Fadal]

Hi, I'm Tamsen Fadal, journalist and author of how to Menopause and host of the Tamsen Show, a weekly podcast with your roadmap to midlife and beyond. We cover it all, from dating to divorce, aging to adhd, sleep to sex, brain health to body fat, and even how perimenopause can affect your relationships. And trust me, it can. Each week, I sit down with doctors, experts and leaders in longevity for unfiltered conversations packed with advice on everything from hormones to happiness, and, of course, how to stay sane during what can be. Well, let's face it, a pretty chaotic chapter of life. Think of us as your midlife survival guide. New episodes released every Wednesday. Listen now on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.