Tara Palmeri (3:24)

Right?

Tim Miller (3:26)

Right. She called Republican Congressman Tom Massey a failed politician, by the way, I would take that as a huge compliment. Who wants to be a politician? Seriously? And that was because he asked why. Sultan Ahmed bin Suleiman. Suleim Sul. Sorry if I said his name wrong. The billionaire businessman, somehow he had his name redacted in the files and email to Jeffrey that states, I loved the torture video. His name was redacted. The survivors did not have their names redacted. In fact, an entire list of them did not have it redacted. But his name was redacted.

Tara Palmeri (4:03)

Hmm.

Tim Miller (4:04)

Wonder why. And the only way, the only reason we know this is because Thomas Massie and Ro Khanna, two congressmen, they went in and looked at the files on redacted and they saw that and they said, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Why is this man's name redacted?

Tara Palmeri (4:19)

Why?

Tim Miller (4:20)

That's a violation of the Epstein Files Transparency act. That his. This has nothing to do with national security. Why was his name redacted? Makes you wonder, who else are they redacting? Who else's name? What else are they redacting? What else don't we know? We know that there are 3 million files we're not seeing. We don't know why. By the way, that Sultan, he was invited to Trump's first inauguration by Trump's first close friend and ambassador to Turkey, Tom Barrack. As we know, he's from the Emirates where Trump has a lot of business, multiple properties, as I've talked about on this show. Check it out. But again, under the Epstein Files Transparency act, it generally only allows for actions for victim identifying information, which we know they've already exposed multiple victims who have not been known before. Jane does. Who chose to remain private for their entire lives. Now the whole world knows. Even their families sudden had no idea. Now, no, it was not designed to shield the names of powerful individuals inquiring about torture videos. I'm sorry if I get Angry about this. It's just really upsetting and draining. And I know from the survivors that they feel drained. They've told me they, some of them, when I met them back in 2019, they were Republicans. I mean, now. And they have always believed this is nonpartisan, which is something I've always believed because it's been decades and decades and decades a failure to actually hold this gross injustice to account. And it hasn't happened. It's not happening right now. And every time she brings up Merrick Garland, which Pam Bondi did multiple times, and why didn't you ask Merrick Garland? Good question. Why didn't they ask Merrick Garland? Why don't they ask George Bush? Why don't they ask Bill Clinton? Why didn't they ask Barack Obama? Right. But you're the one in charge now, and you're the one in charge of releasing the files, so you need to handle this. Mara Chartuni, who is a victim of Jeffrey Epstein, who I've worked very closely with on the Broken Jeffrey Epstein podcast, said it to me like this. To me, it seemed that Attorney General Pam Bondi came well prepared, but with a pair of pom poms and red MAGA cheerleading outfits. So she felt that she was only working for President Trump. And even just the word dao alone, which is something that President Trump measures his presidency by, the state of the stock market, she was speaking to one person. It was to him, not to the women behind her, who she didn't even flinch, didn't even turn to acknowledge. So the night before Pam Bondi's hearing, the algorithm gods must have known that I was researching and getting ready for it, mentally, emotionally, whatever you want to say. And I watched. They, they served me up that SNL episode from the summer where Pam, Amy Poehler, is impersonating Pam Bondi in that contentious hearing in the Senate. And, you know, now looking back on it, she nailed it. She did the exact same thing again. She just called them all losers, acted like a mean girl. She has the biggest case in the world on her desk, and she had nothing, zilch, nothing to offer in that hearing. No one came away feeling like they learned anything new. In fact, all they saw was a woman who was indignant that that she dare had to answer any questions about it. Take a listen to this appearance on msnbc. Well, now it's Ms. Now on Nicole Wallace's show, we get into all of that and more. You can watch some clips from the hearing, but first I want to turn to my sponsor, who is helping me stay in business helping me continue to deliver this reporting for you. Thank you all and of course please subscribe Follow Share this with your friends. It's how you keep me going. And go to tarapaumarie.com and sign up for the Red Letter. Talk soon. 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Tara Palmeri (11:03)

We keep hearing our press secretary and our Department of Justice and other government officials saying they're moving on from this.

Tim Miller (11:12)

I wish that we could.

Tara Palmeri (11:14)

The people who had the authority to intervene chose silence, secrecy and self preservation and called it justice.

Tim Miller (11:26)

I'm here to make sure no one.

Tara Palmeri (11:28)

In the Justice Department, no matter their title, rewrites history or escapes accountability. This time it isn't a monster pedophile who is doing the exploiting, but our very own government.

Nicole Wallace (11:43)

Hi again everyone. It's now 5 o' clock in the Ark. If there was one thing that the survivors of Jeffrey Epstein's abuse wanted from their Attorney General Pam Bondi today, it was some sort of accountability for the Justice Department's complete mishandling of of the files documenting their abuse. But what they got from the woman who said she had Jeffrey Epstein's client list sitting on her desk one year ago in a TV interview was stonewalling deflection and lame personal attacks against lawmakers. Many survivors were in the room for the hearing. And when Pam Bondi was given the opportunity to apologize to them directly for the haphazard way that she and her department have handled the release of the files. Well, we'll show you what happened.

Tara Palmeri (12:27)

If you are willing, please raise your hands if you have still not been able to meet with this Department of Justice, will you turn to them now and apologize for what your Department of Justice has put them through with the union? Absolutely unacceptable release of the Epstein files and their information. Congresswoman, you set before Merrick Garland sat in this chair twice. Attorney General Bond, I'm going to finish my answer. No, I'm going to reclaim my time because I asked you the Attorney General.

Christy Greenberg (13:16)

Yes, sir.

Tara Palmeri (13:17)

Question.

Christy Greenberg (13:17)

Attorney General, that I would like a.

Tara Palmeri (13:19)

Question to answer which is will you turn to the survivors? This is not about anybody that came before you. It is about you taking responsibility for your Department of Justice and the harm that it has done to the survivors who are standing right behind you and are waiting for you to turn to them and apologize for what your Department of Justice has said. We're not going to get in the gutter for her theatrics.

Nicole Wallace (13:48)

Describing the victims as the gutter. That's new. For the record, there was no apology. Attorney General Pam Bondi never turned around and apologized to the victims of Jeffrey Epstein's abuse. And it wasn't just Democrats that Pam Bondi acted like that with or sparred with. Here's what happened when Republican Congressman Thomas Massie pressed Attorney General Pam Bondi on what looked to him like an attempt by the Justice Department to protect the powerful people in Jeffrey Epstein's orbit. While releasing personal information and the survivors.

Tim Miller (14:22)

Names, Are you able to track who in your organization made this massive failure.

Christy Greenberg (14:28)

And released the victims names?

Tim Miller (14:29)

Are you able to track who it was that obscured Les Wexner's name as a co conspirator in an FBI document? Do you have that kind of accountability?

Tara Palmeri (14:43)

I believe Wexner's name was listed more than 4,000 times about.

Tim Miller (14:48)

I had. Yeah, I already told you that. This is where he's listed as a Coke consumer.

Tara Palmeri (14:51)

Finish my answer. Come on.

Nicole Wallace (14:53)

Let me finish my answer.

Tara Palmeri (14:55)

We corrected that. Within 40 minutes, he was already. You're acting like everybody's trying to cover up Wexner's name.

Christy Greenberg (15:02)

Reclaiming.

Tim Miller (15:03)

Reclaiming my time.

Tara Palmeri (15:04)

I'm going to answer this question.

Tim Miller (15:05)

Reclaiming my time, he was.

Nicole Wallace (15:07)

Mr. Chairman, how this works.

Tara Palmeri (15:08)

Within 40 minutes, Wexner's name was added back.

Tim Miller (15:12)

Within 40 minutes of me catching you red handed. Red hand.

Tara Palmeri (15:16)

There was one redaction where he's listed as a co conspirator and we invited you in. This guy has Trump Derangement Syndrome.

Tim Miller (15:26)

There is no credible information. None. If there were, I would bring the case yesterday that he trafficked to other individuals. Is that your position as well?

Tara Palmeri (15:39)

My position is any victim who comes forward. Of course, we would love to hear from them. 1-800- call FBI. Did you ask Merrick Garland that the last four years, did you talk about Epstein?

Tim Miller (15:54)

I am reclaiming my time. I'm glad you're asking about Merrick Garland. This is bigger than Watergate.

Nicole Wallace (16:05)

Yeah, that's about how it went when it comes to the fact that multiple Trump administration officials are named in the Epstein files, that government official Pam Bondi showed zero interest in looking into or understanding better their ties to the dead convicted child sex trafficker.

Tara Palmeri (16:27)

Has the Justice Department specifically asked Secretary Lutnick about his ties to Jeffrey Epstein?

Nicole Wallace (16:34)

He has addressed those ties himself.

Tara Palmeri (16:37)

Has the DOJ asked Secretary Phelan about his ties to Jeffrey Epstein?

Nicole Wallace (16:43)

I don't know whether he has addressed those or not.

Tara Palmeri (16:45)

Has the Deputy Secretary Has Deputy Secretary Feinberg talked to the Department of Justice about his ties to Jeffrey Epstein? Yes or no? Has the Department of Justice talked to Secretary, Deputy Secretary Feinberg about his ties to Jeffrey Epstein, which are clearly spelled out in the files? It's a very simple question. It's not a trick question. I'm just asking you. Yeah, I'm stunned that you want to continue talking about. Oh, my gosh.

Tim Miller (17:13)

Okay.

Tara Palmeri (17:14)

We have evidence that three senior officials within the Trump administration have ties to. To Jeffrey Epstein. And what ties mean. The American people have a right to know the answers to this. These are senior officials and the Trump administration. This is not a game, Secretary. I'm Attorney General. My apologies. I couldn't tell.

Nicole Wallace (17:38)

It's about how the whole day went. Pam Bondi making clear that she was there to perform for an audience of one. It's not clear if even he liked that is for the audience that should have mattered. Forget about the American people. But the survivors of Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell's abuse. Here's what survivor Danny Bensky said to my colleague Ali Batali.

Tara Palmeri (18:03)

It's exhausting to hear her not answer questions. I mean, basically, she's just evading every question. At one point, she talked about, what is Jekyll and Hyde like? Anything that she can do to eat up the time and anything she can can do to not even humanize survivors. And I think that that's the biggest takeaway for a lot of us. She won't even turn around and acknowledge us as people. She won't even look at us after we have gone through so much and the DOJ has failed time and time again. It is just such a grave miscarriage of justice.

Nicole Wallace (18:39)

That's where we start the hour. Tara Palmeri's back with us. She writes the red letter on Substack. She has hosted two acclaimed podcast on the Epstein case called Broken Jeffrey Epstein and Power the Maxwells. Also joining us, political analyst and host of the Bulwark podcast, Tim Miller's here. And joining me at the table, legal analyst Christy Greenberg. She's a former criminal division deputy chief at STMY. She is the host of the YouTube show Courtside. Tim Miller. Let me show it. Show you what Joe Rogan has to say about the Trump administration's handling of all of this.

Christy Greenberg (19:13)

Oh. FBI concluded Jeffrey Epstein wasn't running a.

Nicole Wallace (19:17)

Sex trafficking ring for powerful men.

Christy Greenberg (19:19)

File show. That's the gaslightiest, gaslighting I've ever heard in my life.

Nicole Wallace (19:25)

Again, not to. Not to sort of obscure the fact that they've lost the plot. That the survivors have never expressed a partisan utterance since they've sort of mustered the courage to be part of the conversation and calls for accountability. That the issue was kept alive by the right, to its credit, over the last nine years and that these performances aren't the fus to the left that I think Pam Bondi thinks they are. They're an FU to the core of the Trump MAGA base that sent him back there.

Christy Greenberg (20:04)

I think that's right, Nicole. It felt like a very not of the moment performance by Pam Bondi. You called a performance for an audience of one. I guess that's right. It also kind of felt like the type of typical performance, I don't know, from one of the hearings passed about Benghazi or Hillary's emails or something. You really were just trying to get clips for Fox News primetime. I don't know that this issue calls for that. I think that there are a lot of people, particularly in the megabase throughout the country that want to know who was implicated here. And some of the testimony today obviously had some political valence to it. Like the one example, in addition to the clips you played, that struck me. Jerry Nadler was asking her and he said, how many of Epstein's co conspirators have you indicted? How many perpetrators are you even investigating? And her answer to that was to yell at him and say this is theatrics, this is your. She called him washed up. And I just don't know who that plays for because like that question was not a political question. I wasn't even necessarily about Trump or the Cabinet question is about who, who else did this. Like obviously there were other men that were perpetrators here that were committing sexual crimes against girls and people want to know who it is and people want to know if you're investigating it and, and just like dumping all these files and then calling us names is not sufficient to that task. And so to me, I think that was like the big miss for her. For her to do this kind of yelling and screaming theatrical performance on a matter that is so sensitive and that people across party lines in the country care about.

Nicole Wallace (21:50)

Yeah, you've got 81% of all Americans who believe Donald Trump is hiding something in the Epstein files. You've got as much or more interest in seeing the files released on the right then on the left. You've got no partisan divide in questions about transparency and suspicions about the COVID up. But here was Pam Bondi's answer to what we should be talking about instead of transparency, accountability, and justice. Her thoughts. Well, I'll show you. Speaks for itself. She thinks we should be covering.

Tara Palmeri (22:21)

They are talking about Epstein today. This has been around since the Obama administration. This administration released over 3 million pages of documents. Over 3 million. And Donald Trump signed that law to release all of those documents. He is the most transparent president in the nation's history. And none of them, none of them ask Merrick Garland. Over the last four years, one word about Jeffrey Epstein. How ironic is that? You know why? Because Donald Trump, the Dow, the Dow right now is over. The dow is over $50,000. I don't know why you're laughing.

Nicole Wallace (23:12)

We're laughing because we're not on cnbc, sweetie. I mean, what is that? I don't, I mean, Tara, I, I think the Dow is really important. But you're in a room with survivors. Some of them were children at the time of Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell's child sex trafficking ring. Criminals, hardened criminals. And she's the person who said I've got the list on my desk. So the whole befuddlement that she likes to play there, Tara, about white people asking her about it. She made binders. She made really big binders. I don't even know that you can get them at the office supply store. They seem special orders so thick. She made binders and handed them out to right wing, I don't know, pundits, people in the right wing world. After she said on a Fox News interview that she had quote, the list on her desk and then she brought the right wing pundits into the White House and she met with them in the Roosevelt Room and she handed out these massive binders. So she's the one that pumped, pumped this story up until she face planted. I mean what is she, what is she trying to do if you, if you can figure that one out.

Tim Miller (24:21)

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Nicole Wallace (27:15)

Thomas Massie, another Republican, chalks it up to incompetence Let me show you that, Christy.

Tim Miller (27:23)

The recourse, and I keep reminding the.

Christy Greenberg (27:25)

Folks at DOJ this is that the.

Tim Miller (27:27)

Next attorney general can bring charges against them for breaking the law. I think that's what's compelled them to.

Christy Greenberg (27:34)

Produce 3 million documents. And now they're claiming that it's incompetence.

Tim Miller (27:38)

Like their defense today is incompetence for.

Christy Greenberg (27:41)

Why they haven't given us all the documents.

Nicole Wallace (27:45)

I mean, this is sort of where the rubber meets the road. This is a Republican congressman who says that the next attorney general after the Trump chapter is over, quote, can bring charges against them for breaking the law. The law requires them to turn over all the files.

Tara Palmeri (28:01)

Yeah, I don't think we should be waiting that long. I don't think that's, that's the answer. This Congress now can take action. There are committees that can file a lawsuit and just say, you are not complying with the law. We want you to release the files and here are all the ways you're not in compliance. And go to a judge and try and get some relief now, not years from now. Now that's, that's what they should be doing.

Nicole Wallace (28:24)

All right. No one's going anywhere. We have much more with everyone on our panel about what happened today about how Attorney General Pam Bonney dodged question after question question when it came to the Epstein files. Also ahead for us, how Donald Trump, Trump continues to corrupt US Intelligence as his hand picked Director of National Intelligence runs point at his direction on a criminal investigation into widely debunked claims of election fraud in an election Donald Trump clearly inconvincingly lost. In the year 2020. We are lucky enough to be joined by former principal deputy DNA I, Sue Gordon on how Donald Trump's actions are making us less safe right now. Sue will be our guest later in the hour. Deadline White House continues after a quick break. Don't go anywhere.

Christy Greenberg (29:10)

With the survivors and victims who are here. Please stand up one more time. Just by show of hands, how many of you or your loved ones actually have met with the Department of Justice and provided testimony and estimate and evidence?

Tara Palmeri (29:27)

None.

Christy Greenberg (29:29)

And of those of you who have not met, which is everyone, how many of you have reached out either individually or through a lawyer or representative to offer to provide testimony and evidence?

Tim Miller (29:43)

All of them.

Christy Greenberg (29:45)

And of those of you, all of you who have reached out, how many of you were denied or ignored by the Department of Justice?

Tim Miller (29:54)

All of them.

Christy Greenberg (29:55)

And despite the shameful and despicable efforts by Ms. Bondi and her department to intimidate you, how many of you are still willing to speak to the Department of Justice? All of them. Well, Ms. Bondi, it looks like you have some more witnesses, gentlemen. Expired.

Nicole Wallace (30:14)

Christy. Why wouldn't they just sit and talk to them?

Tara Palmeri (30:19)

So any normal person in that situation, any normal prosecutor would have turned around and looked at them first of all, shown them that basic decency and respect, and said, make sure to leave all your information, your lawyer's information, contact information with me before you leave. I will make sure someone from the Department of Justice reaches out to you this week.

Tim Miller (30:38)

Right.

Tara Palmeri (30:39)

Like, how hard is that? Again, that's not a partisan issue. If you are a victim, if you are a crime victim who wants to speak to a prosecutor, wants to speak to an FBI agent or you should have the ability to do that. And this isn't just any case. This is a case that Pam Bondi has signed filings saying that there is extensive public interest in, with the most infamous pedophile in American history. So right after that clip, she was going around like showing a picture of an illegal alien that had committed a crime. Why aren't we talking about this? What issue do you have? Why do you keep trying to deflect from talking about the Epstein files and this crime that you have told the court you consider important? So it makes no sense. Not only does it not make sense, I would argue it's a violation of the Crime Victims Rights act, which says that crime victims have a right to confer with the government. It also says they have a right to fairness, dignity and respect. And what she just did there, I mean, how smug she was, keeping her back to them, not acknowledging that complaint, which is a very valid complaint, and just seem saying, well, just call a hotline. No, no, deal with it. But she doesn't want to step up. And I suspect the reason she doesn't is coming back to something Marjorie Taylor Greene said when she talked to Donald Trump and said, why don't you just give the victims an audience in the Oval Office? Why don't you meet with them? And he said, they don't deserve an audience. And so she's taking her cues from him. She, it's very clear from you see the binder of zingers she's got. She's a puppet. She doesn't have any independent train of thought here. She had, for each member of Congress, she had what she was going to say to kind of come back to whatever that they were saying. And it's all scripted. She doesn't have independence. This is not her Department of Justice she is not running things here. She's clearly a puppet. Donald Trump doesn't want to be with these victims. He has made it clear from the top he has no respect for them and isn't interested and therefore she's taking her cues from him. And it's a disgrace.

Tim Miller (32:38)

Tara.

Nicole Wallace (32:38)

I guess I'm mad at myself that I can still be shocked and horrified by Donald Trump and the people that work for him. But I'm shocked and horrified that they have made enemies out of the survivors of Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell.

Tim Miller (32:52)

This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Fiscally responsible financial geniuses, monetary magicians. These are things people say about drivers who switch their car insurance to Progressive and save hundreds of. Visit progressive.com to see if you could save Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states or situations. I don't know how you can do that. I mean, these women were our victims when they were children of one of the most vile crimes. And, you know, I would agree with Christy. They said case closed without conferring with the victims. And that does violate their Crime Victims Rights Act. I mean, I'm not a lawyer, but I'm pretty sure that you have to talk to the victims of the crime before you decide the verdict. The case closed. We're ending this. And, you know, all along the Justice Department hasn't cared about them at all. Pam Bondi seemed completely heartless. She seemed completely soulless, frankly, out there. She seemed like she was working for Trump. She was Trump's defense attorney and she had no interest in these women. A thousand victims, by the way, all with the same stories. And yes, she didn't seem to care at all. And I don't see how that's going to help the Republicans going into the midterms. This is not the face they want. And it was a train wreck. It was a disaster. I don't know how else to describe it. But today was an embarrassment for them than the entire party.

Nicole Wallace (34:28)

Yeah, I mean, and I don't know that Letnick could look any worse than he already does. Tim Miller, but he sort of did. Like, if you've got someone, she's the one that was going on and on in defending Tulsi Gabber, being at the Georgia election office raid by saying, quote, we're inseparable, end quote. Like, we're, we're besties. But she hasn't talked to Lutnick. I mean, her explanation was that, you know, basically like out of the hangover, you know, three best friends. But she doesn't want to claim Letnick, who happened to go to the island. And she's never talked to Letnik after. He just said yesterday before Congress that he and his wife and his kids and his nannies all went to the island and he and his wife and his kids and all the nannies left the island. She wasn't interested in talking to him about what he might have seen. I mean, the whole sort of farce that she had any interest in getting any information about any of the crimes that were committed and had nothing other than just disdain for the victim. She didn't seem interested in trying to disabuse anyone of that notion today.

Christy Greenberg (35:32)

No, she didn't. On the Lutnick thing, I guess the good news for him is that Kevin Hassett, the economic adviser, said that Lutnick was his bestie. Yesterday.

Nicole Wallace (35:41)

Someone claimed Lutnick.

Christy Greenberg (35:43)

Yeah. So we got different lunch tables, I guess, in the White House where they're, you know, I'll talk about who their besties are as they as run cover for each other. I just. Look, if. If you're somebody that actually did care about this, like, there are people that genuinely cared about this, like, either on the right or like within. The kind of newer part of the Trump coalition was shorthanded with the Rogan verse, right? Like Trump said, to make a lot of people, you know, kind of eat a lot of crap over the last nine years who support him, that's just a part of the deal of going along with Donald Trump. But people don't like to be made to be fools, you know, and made out to be idiots. And that's what they're trying to do. They're just trying to basically say, hey, this thing that you cared about, that you told your audience you cared about, or if you're in the audience that you posted about and read about and learned about where you were concerned, that there was this elite cabal of people that were sexually trafficking young girls, of men that were sexually trafficking young girls. And now I'm here to tell you that don't believe your lying eyes. There's not really anything more to look into. And in fact, what you should care about is that your 401k is going up. It's just like, how stupid do you think people are? I just, in this situation, like, this playbook just does not work. And they're playing their own supporters for fools. And, you know, there'll be some of them that are me happy to play along. I'm sure Hannity will give her a good review tonight over on Fox. But a lot of these other folks, you know, they're not, they're not signing up for this.

Nicole Wallace (37:17)

Yeah. And it's an interesting migration. If Hannity does align himself with her. I mean, it has been in the past something that Republicans have talked about. You know, an elite child sex trafficking ring is a bad thing. That used to not have a partisan take on it, but I guess Pambani makes clear that now it does. Tara Palmeri, Tim Miller, Christy Greenberg, thank you so much for starting us off and watching all that with me.

Tim Miller (37:45)

That was another episode of the Tara Palmieri show. Thank you again for tuning in and for caring about this issue. I know so many of you do. I want to ask you to follow subscribe Rate Share this show with your friends. How we keep making sure that it gets pushed into the algorithm and people see it and it continues to live on and survive. Of course you can go to tarapaulmary.com you get my exclusive reporting straight to your inbox. By signing up for the Red letter and becoming a paid subscriber, you'll get great reporting and you'll support independent journalism. I want to thank my producer, Eric Abenate. I want to thank Abby Baker, who does my social media booking research. She does it all. I want to thank Adam Stewart on the graphics. And I want to thank Dan Rosen, my manager. See you again soon.