Epstein Investigation Escalates: Clintons Testify Before Congress

Summary

The Tara Palmeri Show

Epstein Investigation Escalates: Clintons Testify Before Congress

Date: February 26, 2026
Host: Tara Palmeri
Guests: Dr. Leslie Dobson (Forensic Psychologist), V (Co-host/contributor), Tamsen Fadal (brief cameo)

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Episode Overview

In this charged and deeply investigative episode, Tara Palmeri returns to the Jeffrey Epstein case as new developments rock the highest echelons of American power. With both Hillary and Bill Clinton testifying before the House Oversight Committee, the conversation unpacks their roles, broader abuses of elite power, the missing Trump files, and the persistent influence of Epstein's network. Dr. Leslie Dobson joins as a forensic psychologist, adding expert insight into patterns of predatory behavior and the psychology of systemic abuse. Together, the panel cuts through political theater to expose the entrenched patterns of complicity and cover-up, both in politics and the wider culture.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Political Theater: The Clintons' Testimony

• [00:29–04:56] Tara intros the major headline: Hillary and Bill Clinton testifying before Congress about their connections to Epstein, with Hillary denying ever meeting him but potentially hedging:

  “She goes, I do not recall ever encountering Mr. Epstein. I wonder if there was like, a counter, like a caveat there, because maybe she has, in passing, met him.” (Tara, 03:51)

• The panel discusses Ghislaine Maxwell's appearances at Chelsea Clinton’s wedding and the Clinton Global Initiative, highlighting the indirect connections often omitted from official statements.

• Notable point: No Republican members attended the Les Wexner hearing, despite his crucial role in Epstein’s financial empire, underscoring the bipartisan reluctance to get real answers.

2. The Missing Trump Files and Recent Journalistic Breakthroughs

• [05:19–08:58] Discussing new claims (Roger Sullenberger, Substack) that the DOJ omitted a crucial FBI 302 on allegations Trump raped a 13-year-old, introduced to him via Epstein:

  “The FBI scrubbed his name. Over a thousand officials went in and used billions of hours or whatever it was to scrub his name from everywhere.” (V, 07:16)

• Tara laments the selective release and heavy redaction in the Epstein files, estimating millions of documents are still hidden.
• Dr. Dobson expresses shock at how obvious the omissions are:

  "To think that they thought an American public in the world wouldn't catch that is stupefying to me." (Leslie, 08:58)

3. Epstein’s Enduring Influence & Institutional Corruption

• [09:26–13:39] The panel traces the continuity of Epstein’s operations in political and cultural life.
  • Legacies handed to current political figures (Steve Bannon, Jared Kushner, Tom Barrack) and continuing practices in academia and the arts.
  • Discussion of how Epstein used his influence to place trafficked girls and friends' children in elite institutions like Harvard and Juilliard, exploiting the patronage system.
• Dr. Dobson underscores the psychological skill and entitlement at the top levels:

  "This level of intrusion and entitlement at the highest level in the world, they've mastered it. It's a beautiful skill that they have, and it's just absolutely horrifying." (Leslie, 13:39)

4. Generational Divides and Calls for Accountability

• [14:18–16:21] Analysis of younger politicians’ appetite for transparency and the fading power of the "old guard"—both Republicans and Democrats.
• V, with a touch of acerbic wit, frames it as necessary generational change:

  "We've been under your thumb. Whether it was student loans or the fact that you sex trafficked, the majority of our, like, elite people ... We're sick of it. Let it fall." (V, 14:18)

5. Women’s Roles: Complicity, Enabling, and Exploitation

• [17:02–19:13] Explores how women, including Ghislaine Maxwell and evangelical figure Erica (the widow of Charlie) Kirk, have abetted male predators.
• V details Kirk's alignment with a megachurch implicated in child abuse, underscoring how abusers rely on women’s social trust:

  “Women see other women in these places and they go, can't be that bad. Must be okay. She'll look out for me. And she will not. She will not.” (V, 17:02)

• Shocking revelations about American evangelical institutions’ connections to Romanian orphanages and industrial-level abuse (see: Harvest Church, Romania).

6. The ‘Manosphere,’ Thought-Trafficking, and Abuse Enabling Culture

• [22:41–25:29] A deep dive into the new male-dominated, misogynist web subcultures—"manosphere"—where the reality of trafficking and predatory behavior is denied or minimized.
• Panel references influencers like Nick Fuentes and the perverse logic in which young men turn to each other in lieu of women, sometimes culminating in homoerotic as opposed to misogynistic bonding rituals (with both mockery and concern).

7. The Psychology of Abuse, Grooming, and Institutional Cover-Ups

• [25:46–44:15] Dr. Dobson discusses coercive control as an even more insidious form of abuse than most physical violence, regretting that older generations often won't (or can't) confront these truths:

  “Yes, I think emotional coercive control is far worse than any physical abuse you could ever place upon someone.” (Leslie, 25:46)

• Extended dialogue on generational trauma, the need to eliminate “bad boomers” from power, and the complicity of institutions that protect abusers at the expense of survivors.
• Discussion of missing or ignored medical and court records, settlements, NDAs, and the routine silencing of both whistleblowers and victims in elite circles.

8. Critical Reflections on Media, Journalism & Whistleblowing

• [51:02–54:34] The erosion of investigative journalism exemplified by Anderson Cooper’s exit from 60 Minutes and the demise of other legacy news platforms.
• Recognition that vital stories are increasingly being broken by independent journalists on platforms like Substack, as mainstream media faces financial and institutional pressures to deprioritize or suppress politically sensitive stories.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Republican absence at the Wexner hearing:

  “Just reinforces... they never really wanted to get the answers. They don't really care about this. This is just political theater for them.”
  (Tara Palmeri, 03:41)

• On generational change:

  “Let it fall.”
  (V, 14:18)

• On child exploitation in elite institutions:

  “This is like the story of Maria Farmer... She was an artist who ended up working for Epstein. And so they end up in these vulnerable positions... It's really ripe for child exploitation, frankly, and among the elite. So it's rarely investigated.”
  (Tara Palmeri, 12:55)

• On collective denial:

  “Ignorance is bliss... But then again... at least don't dissuade other people from doing it and empower those who are trying to push forward with it.”
  (Leslie, 30:51)

• On the psychology of the perpetrator:

  “He could have had any woman he wanted ... But he chose girls from a high school... So I don't. I see that as like, a sickness ... And I think he used that as blackmail and leverage.”
  (Tara Palmeri, 42:13)

• On the silencing of survivors:

  “All the money in the world settles out of court almost every fucking time.”
  (Dr. Leslie Dobson, 48:13)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:29–04:56 – Clinton testimony details and Ghislaine Maxwell connections
• 05:19–08:58 – The Trump missing file saga; how the DOJ and FBI selectively redact and withhold evidence
• 09:26–13:39 – Epstein successors and the structural nature of elite abuse (political, academic, and artistic institutions)
• 17:02–19:13 – The enabling role of women (Maxwell, Erica Kirk) and the Romania orphanage scandal
• 22:41–25:46 – The manosphere and new routes of grooming/abuse in online male spaces; denialist propaganda
• 25:46–28:50 – Psychological impacts, generational trauma, and the call for boomer “bad apples” to step aside
• 42:13–45:38 – Nuances in prosecuting Epstein and the difference between preference and opportunity
• 48:13–50:34 – The limitations and ethics of settlements, NDAs, and the ongoing challenges for whistleblowers
• 51:02–54:34 – The state of journalism: CBS, 60 Minutes, and the shift to independent newsgathering

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Conclusion & Forward Look

Tara closes by emphasizing the importance of persistent, independent journalism in keeping these issues alive in public memory, especially when powerful institutions exert pressure to forget. The episode ends on the reminder that justice for Epstein's victims—and justice in general—remains elusive without public vigilance and the exposure of institutional complicity at every level.

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Supporting Reading:

• Tara's 2021 piece, “The Women Who Enable Jeffrey Epstein” (Substack)
• Roger Sullenberger’s reporting on missing files (Substack)
• Upcoming investigative piece by Tara in Vanity Fair

Follow-Ups:

• V’s Substack investigations on Erica Kirk and evangelical complicity
• Dr. Leslie Dobson’s forensic psychology insights and future appearance on Substack

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This episode is essential listening for anyone seeking to understand the ongoing reverberations of the Epstein scandal, institutional resistance to accountability, and the culture of silence that still protects the world's most powerful perpetrators. Tara and her guests’ fearless, insider perspective draws a clear line from headlines to hidden truths.

Transcript

[Tara Palmeri]

Take the exit, turn right into the drive thru.

[V (possibly a co-host or contributor)]

Nope, I'm making dinner tonight.

[Tara Palmeri]

You don't have time.

[Tamsen Fadal]

Josh has practice.

[Dr. Leslie Dobson]

Oh, that's right.

[Tara Palmeri]

I'll just get a salad and fries.

[V (possibly a co-host or contributor)]

No, just the salad.

[Tara Palmeri]

But salad cancels.

[V (possibly a co-host or contributor)]

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[Tara Palmeri]

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[Tamsen Fadal]

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[Tara Palmeri]

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[V (possibly a co-host or contributor)]

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[Tara Palmeri]

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[Tara Palmeri]

Results may vary. Welcome back to the Tara Palmari Show. On this show, we cover all the latest Epstein news. Hillary and Bill Clinton testify before the House Oversight Committee. Hillary Clinton says she does not recall ever meeting Jeffrey Epstein. But what about Glenn Maxwell? We also go into the missing files that just so happen to be about President Trump and allegations that he assaulted a 13 year old with talk about a possible Erica Kirk connection and why the manosphere likes the narrative that Jeffrey Epstein wasn't a pedophile predator. We go into all of it and more. Stay tuned. This is a great episode. Welcome.

[V (possibly a co-host or contributor)]

It looks like folks are here. Woohoo.

[Tara Palmeri]

It's. It's under the desk. News meets the red letter. And we've got a special guest. We've got Dr. Leslie Dobson. She is a forensic psychologist. She works on criminal cases. So she's kind of a great person to bring into the Epstein story because, let's face it, this is a crime scene is playing out every single day. It's playing out in the halls of Congress. We have, you know, Hillary Clinton, who just put out a statement. She and Bill Clinton are testifying. I didn't realize this, but no Republican member went to the inquiry with Les Wexner. I mean, that's pretty insane.

[V (possibly a co-host or contributor)]

Yeah.

[Tara Palmeri]

Why?

[V (possibly a co-host or contributor)]

I really wish I knew. I think it's. It's just such poor form for them, especially when many Republicans have spoken out about saying that there should be accountability for stuff that happened in the Epstein file. So I don't know why they wouldn't have gone.

[Tara Palmeri]

I know. And you would think like, he is the missing, like he's the critical link between Epstein and his wealth. They've been best friends. He literally introduced less to his wife. Like that is how close they are. So you know what freaked me out, though?

[V (possibly a co-host or contributor)]

So I'm big. I do a lot of threading and, and you know how like, brands have threads now. Yesterday the Limited two popped up as a new Threads account. I was like the limited to Les Wexner's brand For young girls, coming back at this time is so terrible. I fear bad timing. And apparently limited to is, in fact, now in Kohl's. And I was like, please, women, do not buy limited to clothing for your children.

[Tara Palmeri]

I was a huge fan of limited to at the time. Everything. Hey, welcome.

[V (possibly a co-host or contributor)]

Leslie.

[Tara Palmeri]

Thanks for coming on the show. Took a minute to get you on.

[Dr. Leslie Dobson]

I know I've never done a live substack, so here we go. My virginity.

[Tara Palmeri]

Yeah. That could go many different ways when you're talking about the Epstein story.

[V (possibly a co-host or contributor)]

But luckily, I know I'm like, speaking of that time.

[Tara Palmeri]

Yeah. But, yeah, thanks for joining the show. We were just talking about the latest. Hillary Clinton and Bill Clinton are in Chappaqua. I almost said Chappaquiddick. Another place that. Yeah.

[V (possibly a co-host or contributor)]

Terrible stuff. I mean, political stories.

[Tara Palmeri]

Yeah. So they're there. They're being. And I guess you could say they're. They're dealing with a congressional hearing and testimony. I. I was saying to be. I didn't realize that no Republicans showed up for the Les Wexner hearing, which is just fascinating. Just reinforces the fact that they actually did, didn't they never really wanted to get the answers. They don't really care about this. This is just political theater for them. But, you know, she said she's never met Jeffrey Epstein, which is interesting. She goes, I do not recall ever encountering Mr. Epstein. I wonder if there was like, a counter, like a caveat there, because maybe she has, in passing met him.

[V (possibly a co-host or contributor)]

She met Ghis Maxwell. Certainly this isn't just about. I think that's a cleverly worded answer there, Mrs. Clinton. Secretary Clinton, for the fact that you. It. Ghislaine was at Chelsea's wedding.

[Tara Palmeri]

Exactly. She was. And. And she was welcome at the Clinton Global Initiative. She was there many times, so. And Epstein could not have done what he did without Ghislaine Maxwell. The indignation is kind of rich. But, you know, she does make a decent point that there are a number of people that they should be calling in. There are people who have been working, who worked for him. They should be calling in the survivors. You know, there are so many people that could be called in. Leon Black, for one, you know, Jess Staley, they could keep. They have a huge list. But, yes, this is the first time that a former president has had to face congressional hearings.

[V (possibly a co-host or contributor)]

I also think it's weird that the. That Secretary Clinton is still answering for the actions of her husband. I mean, she had to answer for them with the Monica Lewinsky stuff. Then she had to answer for them later in life. She's constantly been answering for him and I bet that she didn't hang out with Jeffrey Epstein. I bet that was Bill's boys time. She should be answering for her relationship to Glenn Maxwell and, and maybe what could have been uncovered there.

[Tara Palmeri]

Yeah, I think you're right about that. But I don't think you could know, not know what Jeffrey Epstein was up to just because like everybody knew, everybody in elite circles knew about Jeffrey Epstein and what he was up to. So of course eh, I don't know, it's a, it's a sticky, it's just not great. And also President Trump should be called but that's not going to happen.

[V (possibly a co-host or contributor)]

Bill Gates, Bill Gates now admitted to the two sexual encounters with two different Russian women apparently. So I feel like that's progress from where he was before sending out cease and desist letters at anybody who would mention that.

[Tara Palmeri]

Isn't it amazing how much the Epstein files have changed the narrative? Like it's incredible. Like men have been brought to their knees. We've seen evidence, people who have been denying and lying any connection to Jeffrey Epstein for so long or just suddenly having to admit it. It's like it's, it's incredible. And to think that we only have a fraction of the story right now. And that brings me to this, this incredible story broken by an independent journalist which I think is you know Roger, Roger Sullenberg, right? Is that his name? I think yeah, he's on, he's on substack and he broke the story that the DOJ withheld a 302 from a woman who called Frank, you know, before the 2020 election but who called in about a, with an allegation of rape by President Trump when she was 13 saying that she had met him through Jeffrey Epstein and it seemed was pretty graphic. And, and, and the FBI actually did a follow up investigation into this. But you wouldn't know that because it's not in the files. But this independent.

[Dr. Leslie Dobson]

That's more follow up investigations, right?

[Tara Palmeri]

Yeah, yeah. So it's really shocking that they would leave that out. Even if it exonerates him then why not put it in there?

[V (possibly a co-host or contributor)]

It's it so sort of interesting point on that particular story that just came out yesterday. So I was on CNN with Audie Cornish in the morning and I had brought somebody, one of the, the representative from Montana was like well Trump's not in the files. I was like why isn't he. The FBI scrubbed his name. Over a thousand officials went in and used billions of hours or whatever it was to scrub his name from everywhere. And there are certain files that quite honestly have not been released, like this investigation that the FBI did into credible accusations against President Trump raping a minor and didn't say all of that term. Audie Cornish also had the reporting from CNN following up from this independent journalist who had broken it, saying more about it. And then at the break they were like, I don't know if we can say that. I don't know if that's corroborated or whatever. And it was like, she's like, I'm not pulling down CNN's on reporting about this. There are still people out there trying to get this story to, to tamp down or to be removed from different places.

[Tara Palmeri]

Yeah, and it's.

[V (possibly a co-host or contributor)]

CNN had it all night last night. So I was glad to see that they kept with it and they, they kept up that investigation and questioning.

[Tara Palmeri]

Well, they did it because NPR did it. And I think if NPR didn't actually pick up, otherwise they would just ignore all this great reporting that's on substack. And in the independent journalism world, it's Roger Sullenberger. He's an investigative political reporter. And yeah, he was the one who realized from the index that there were pieces missing in the actual files that were in the index. And like imagine 3, 3 million files, most of them redacted, you know, 2.5 million others that we don't even know why we're not seeing them. There's so much more here than we'll ever know or we'll ever see.

[Dr. Leslie Dobson]

And it is. So this particular file was very obvious. I mean, we have, we have the initial FBI investigation, we have the FBI case number. It's very obvious that if you're going to send agents out, there's going to be documentation of follow up. It's very obvious that it's not there. To think that they thought an American public in the world wouldn't catch that is stupefying to me.

[V (possibly a co-host or contributor)]

Tara, can I ask you a question about. I know we talk a lot about what happened with Epstein, but you and I, when we were together in D.C. were talking a little bit about how a lot of this is probably still going on and there was sort of like a legacy handing off. Whether that was a formal handing off or not between Epstein and who is running parts of his enterprise now still, Steve Bannon is still a major political figure pulling through the ideas of Epstein when it comes to Republican policy and anti trans activism and crypto. Those were Epstein things that he was really Very interested in and pushing for. Jared Kushner seems to have, like, taken over some of the Middle east policy and some of the money management stuff that was going on.

[Tara Palmeri]

Tom Barrack, Eric, also involved in our political. In our geopolitics right now, representing the United States abroad as ambassador to Paulo Zamboli.

[V (possibly a co-host or contributor)]

Being out there still, like, how can we. And should we be focusing on the ways in which Epstein is not even over this? I think the Republicans are like, this should be over. This should be old news. And it's like, it's not, because it's still happening. Maybe not the sex crimes on an island, but the rest of the enterprise.

[Dr. Leslie Dobson]

Yeah.

[Tara Palmeri]

No, it does feel like he has ceded his influence across the entire administration, really across so many institutions that deeply need to rid themselves of the Epstein stink, including, you know, academia, where he was paying for tuition. It just is like, remember when there was. Yeah. And remember the scandal around. God, I remember the actress. She was from Saved by the Bell, but her daughter. They were placing them in colleges. Oh, yeah.

[V (possibly a co-host or contributor)]

Yeah.

[Tara Palmeri]

But, like, essentially, Epstein was doing the same thing for his rich and powerful friends. He was placing and. And his. And the girls that he was trafficking. He was placing them in elite institutions by making donations, using his contacts, Larry Summers, like, et cetera, to get these people into institutions. Like, that was a huge scandal at the time that the elites were using their connections to try to get their kids into school. And this is just like a footnote in the Epstein files.

[Dr. Leslie Dobson]

Oh, yeah. One small footnote is the Hadid sisters are mentioned very explicitly. Like, you know, this is how they got to where they are. Are you jealous? That's kind of how the emails read.

[Tara Palmeri]

Oh, wow, I didn't know.

[V (possibly a co-host or contributor)]

That freaked me out about him in school is we focus a lot on Harvard because I think a lot of people know what Harvard is. It's like the American dream to go to Harvard and, like, with a legacy of the Kennedys again, crossing over and all this stuff. The Juilliard piece is very interesting to me because there was that story about Melissa Solomon, the cellist that he placed at Juilliard, the story that speaks to the teachers, that speaks to the prodigy schools. My wife is a musician. She's like, please be very careful when you talk about this shit. I'd like to have a career in my life. And you can't just accuse every single school of being bad. I'm like, but, babe, they are. She's like, parts of them are. But this Juilliard connection. And then I think about times that we See women being exploited and pulled out by the rich and famous. Now from Juilliard, still, like Hannah Needleman, who was a ballerina at Juilliard, right? She's now, what, a ballerina farm on TikTok. And she was sort of, like, pulled out of her dream by that guy who owns JetBlue to go marry him and have 90,000 of his kids, which is her choice or whatever. But when they did that New York Times report, she seemed sad about what had happened. And I was like, look, another Juilliard connection. It's just, Even when it's not Epstein, it's the institutions that continue to train people to be, like, consumed by the rich.

[Tara Palmeri]

No, because they h. That is what they're actually told to do. They're told to go out there and find benefactors who will support their growth in the arts. And so therefore, they are exposed to very wealthy people who have power over them. And suddenly it is they, Their families perhaps can't afford to send them to these elite institutions like Interlockin or Juilliard. And they want to be artists, so they. This is like the story of Maria Farmer. You know, she was an artist who ended up. Ended up working for Epstein. And so they end up in these vulnerable positions, you know, but they have these benefactors who maintain their ability to continue studying. And it's, It's. It's really ripe for child exploitation, frankly, and among the elite. So it's rarely investigated.

[Dr. Leslie Dobson]

It's the same psychological concept of when you harm a child, you're still intruding yourself without permission into someone or into an institution. Right. This level of intrusion and entitlement at the highest level in the world, they've mastered it. It's a beautiful skill that they have, and it's just absolutely horrifying. How do we. We have to educate the world in order to stop it from continuing? And we have to be willing to have what the cabal finally fall. Now, what would that look like? That's.

[V (possibly a co-host or contributor)]

I don't be that bad. I don't think it'd be that bad. I mean, I think, actually, I think Garcia go pretty hard because he's like, look, I'm a millennial. I, I, I don't know any of these people. I don't give a. I don't give a crap about these people. They weren't my donors. They're not my peers. They're not my community. The people that are, that are really involved in this, say, for maybe Jared Kushner, are, like, 60 and older, and you've had your time to run the country in the way that you have and exploit people in the way that you have. And I think you see these younger generations incoming being like, we've been under your thumb. Whether it was student loans or the fact that you sex trafficked, the majority of our, like, elite people are our most talented people. We're sick of it. Let it fall.

[Tara Palmeri]

Yep, I agree. I think that a lot of these members, particularly the younger ones, they have very. They have no affection for these members of the party, including the Democrats. They see them as the old warts in the party, dragging them down as they try to move into the future. I mean, it just literally happened in 2024 with Joe Biden. And so they're just like, cool, purify this. Let's get rid of you. This isn't the old boys club anymore. This is the future. And I think I. I don't know, I get the feeling sometimes I'm like, this is the change that was needed to come for a very long time. It's sad and it's disgusting, but it's exposed the world to really unsavory behavior by the people that we have long trusted. And it actually kind of explains the rebellion against the elites that started, frankly, back in 2016. Even if those elites ended up using that and harnessing that and lying as if they were the ones who were with the people. The populist wave, I think it's now like laying bare who we can trust and who we can't. The question is, bring the flood.

[V (possibly a co-host or contributor)]

Bring the flood. You know, biblical erasure of horror. I think sometimes maybe that's what it part the seas, bring the flood. Whatever the case may be, because we gotta talk about the evangelicals too, and what the widow Kirk has been up to. Speaking of people who have inherited, please do you are.

[Tara Palmeri]

You are on the Erica Kirk beat, which I love. So what? Yeah, tell us everything.

[Dr. Leslie Dobson]

I need an overview because what I see of her is just. She looks demonic. I don't understand what's happening with her eyes. I don't. The whole trajectory of this is so strange to me.

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[V (possibly a co-host or contributor)]

I think, you know, we have to remember that the patriarchy in these crimes are not possible without the help of women and so when we look at Elaine Maxwell, or now in this case, where I'm sort of trying to blow the whistle on the widow Kirk a little bit, this is where the power comes from, because that's where the trust come from. Women see other women in these places and they go, can't be that bad. Must be okay. She'll look out for me. And she will not. She will not.

[Tara Palmeri]

I literally wrote a whole piece about this, the Women who Enable Jeffrey Epstein and I published in 2021. And it was like the entire hierarchy of women that created this.

[V (possibly a co-host or contributor)]

She was like, oh, let me take notes on this.

[Dr. Leslie Dobson]

Yes.

[V (possibly a co-host or contributor)]

Okay, folks need to go back and read those things. And calling it out is not like, well, but we should still talk about the men. We are talking about them, and we're talking about how men use women and how the patriarchy eats us all up, including other men. So the thing with Erica Kirk is I don't know much about her relationship with Charlie. I think it was very advantageous to her. I think it looked like the perfect Christian American couple. I think Charlie Kirk, while I don't agree with the thing the man said, he was very good at what he did. Making like he. He was the best at what that is that he did. Nobody deserves to be murdered in the streets the way that he was. And I think if you want sort of like the tea on the relationship and the conspiracy, maybe go to Candace Owens for that. For me, I am looking at her connections to the church because as a person who grew up Catholic, shout out my Catholics. We have seen accountability in the church to some level. Right. But not nearly enough. But we've been dealing with this our whole entire lives. We've had eyes on the church being a dangerous place for children. So when I look at her and her evangelical ties and I looked at her Make Crowded Heaven tour, I was very interested in who was included here. And it is not lost on me that she chose to partner with the Harvest Church. The Harvest Church is a big mega Christian evangelical church, and it is run by this guy Greg Laurie, that's a national leader, and Paul Havisgaard, who is the longtime pastor. Not only do they run this evangelical church, but they also ran an orphanage and adoption service in Romania, which Erica Kirk was also very involved in, saving the children in Romania.

[Tara Palmeri]

Now, Romania, of all places, Romania has

[V (possibly a co-host or contributor)]

very low enforceability on sex crimes. Isn't it? Isn't that why the Tate Brothers are there also? Oh, I think they're trying to fix it now. But their. Their sex crime enforcement laws Were very weak at a time.

[Tara Palmeri]

How are they even part of the EU if that's the way it is there? I don't know.

[V (possibly a co-host or contributor)]

How is Turkey? How is a lot of people right now?

[Tara Palmeri]

They won't let them in.

[V (possibly a co-host or contributor)]

I mean, NATO and stuff like that.

[Tara Palmeri]

Okay.

[V (possibly a co-host or contributor)]

There's. So whatever was going on in Romania, they are trying to have that not be true about them anymore. So props to them for what they're doing now. But over the last couple of decades, that was a big place for this to happen. And so this Harvest Christian Fellowship and Greg Laurie, there's federal complaints that detail that Paul Harvest Guard, who Greg Laurie is the pastor on tour with Erica Kirk right now. And Paul harvest guard in 1998 ran harvest sponsored homes for vulnerable children. They would go into the streets with McDonald's to lure orphaned children into what they called safe shelters. And then they would carry out, you know, horrific sexual and physical abuse on an industrial scale. This is from the federal report. According to the complaints, church leaders in California failed basic tasks of supervision, yet profited from the money they raised through charitable appeals and the false impression that they were doing good works for the orphans of Romania. The complaints alleged that Hattusgard may have one of the most prolific child sexual predators alive in the United States today, responsible for thousands of individual acts of abuse. And this is the church that Erica Kirk has chose to partner with for her Make Heaven Crowded tour. It's not a secret. Wow.

[Dr. Leslie Dobson]

I think that's. Yeah, I think that's something we underestimate is how obvious and how blatant they are with this. And they really think that if they put it out there that it's just so obscene, the general public won't believe it. You know, like it's this hyper normalization attempt. It's like CIA psychological war tactics. And she's doing it right. It's just too obscene to believe to most of America that she would be aligning herself with trafficking is trafficking and in just blatant sight.

[Tara Palmeri]

But the thing is, everything is happening in blatant sight. Like if you go on X, it is a totally different universe on X. People are saying that Jeffrey Epstein did not traffic young girls at all. And I'm like, you could easily go into the files and you could listen to the interviews that Joseph Ricari, the detective in the Palm beach school, that he created an entire sex trafficking operation. The interviews he did with girls, one of them called his penis a wheelie. Girls were showing up at 14 races, you know, and then you've got people who have Television shows like Bhatya Sangar saying Michael Tracy, who is just attacking these girls and survivors and reporters who, who are actually knowledgeable about this case. And then it becomes like mainstream. The idea that, oh, there was actually no pedophile ring. There was no pedophile ring. It's like, did you actually ever read the files? Do you know anything about what's happening? But there's a reverse ecosystem going on in which they're saying that this is all a hoax. It's like a thousand victims with the same story. And then one of the, the baya made this comment, oh, Hallie Robson. Who? Robinson.

[V (possibly a co-host or contributor)]

Who?

[Tara Palmeri]

I'm blanking on his name. Not Massey. She was, she was invited to the State of the Union. And you know, she, she goes, oh, well, she admitted that she got $200 to invite her friends. She met Epstein at 16 years old. They all got $200 to invite their friends. It's called the pyramid scheme. It's how he made it work among a group of lower income people or kids. And it's like. And we're supposed to be like, she's a madam.

[V (possibly a co-host or contributor)]

No, they're going to do this with the boys and the, and the red pill manosphere. Also right now. We're seeing this happen also right now with characters like clavicular. Okay, who is this? Like, he's 20 years old. He's the one who's like a super looks maxer whatnot. He was interviewed on the Adam Freeland show. And this is a person who. The way he speaks now reminds me of the ways that the Epstein survivors will talk about what they felt the pressures of trying to make a way for themselves in the world sound like now flip. It is incredibly misogynistic. He is not a good person. He has sang Heil Hitler in clubs. Like, I get all of that. He's also 20 years old and he is under the influence of older men who are telling him that this is the best way to do it. He is responsible for his actions. But he is also 20 years old. So when Adam Freeland was interviewing him, what I found interesting is you could tell that this is the first time that a man was sort of like nice and gentle to clavicular in the way he was asking him questions and getting him to talk. It is worth a watch. Because he's like, but you say you're doing all this stuff to get girls and are you getting any girls? And he's like, no. And he's like, and doesn't that make you feel alone and sad? And he's like, I. I don't know. I don't know. Like, the abuse and the brainwashing of young people starting at 13 and 14 manifests in actions when they were 20, 21 and for the rest of their life. And so I think we need to be taking a look across the board, not just on people who are victims of sex trafficking, but people who are victims of, like, thought trafficking or culture trafficking. And then using these young people to try and sell this idea of patriarchy.

[Dr. Leslie Dobson]

I mean, it goes back to that online group, 764. I mean, their main targets were vulnerable eating disorder groups on Facebook. I mean, like, you. You think you're sending your young teen in to get help with a disorder, with depression, with anxiety, and they're starting to groom them from there. And now I'm your friend, okay? I have. You have people who support you. Show us how much you support us. Cut your leg a little. Okay, now show us a little more. Brand yourself. Show us a little more. Get hospitalized. Now end your life on alive. And it literally is happening. And they. They arrest the top guy, right? But he's already instructed and groomed everybody else how to continue this. And it's still happening, right?

[Tara Palmeri]

It's. So it's just like the most basic principle. Predators choose weak prey. They don't want to run after people. They choose the ones that they think they can control. And that is the sick and twisted part about all of this.

[Dr. Leslie Dobson]

I stood before Judge Carter, a federal court a few weeks back, and he said to me, do you really think coercive control is worse than physical abuse? And he's 83, 84. And I said, yes, I think emotional coercive control is far worse than any physical abuse you could ever place upon someone. And he said, wow, that's new to me. This is what we're seeing. The end result might be physical abuse, it might not. But the. The whole buildup is emotional, psychological manipulation.

[V (possibly a co-host or contributor)]

You know, they say everybody should have to work at a restaurant to know how to act in society. Everyone should have to be a teenage girl for one year, and you would know that coercive control and mind control and like, trying to fit in and body positivity, all those things.

[Tara Palmeri]

If you would never go back, a

[V (possibly a co-host or contributor)]

surprise to you, that coercive control and high, high expectation religion, high expectation parenting and all that would. Would definitely destroy you for the rest of your life in many ways. I would never go talking about Abby Miller. Also a Lauren saying in here, can we talk about Abby Miller all day? And the Discussing fact that a few later, she got her own reality show after, you know. Absolutely. Breaking those girl spirits.

[Tara Palmeri]

Yeah.

[Dr. Leslie Dobson]

I'm not familiar.

[V (possibly a co-host or contributor)]

There's a lot of it out there. And what do they have in common? Over 60. Okay, get out of here with your boomer nonsense. And I'm not picking on the boomers. The boomers are the greatest victims of the boomer generation. If you weren't a bad boomer. I hear my mom talk about the way she was bullied in high school, and I see the people she's been friends with throughout her whole life. The boomers are victims of other boomers. Okay. Just get the bad ones out of the way, and the millennials will take care of you. We love you.

[Tara Palmeri]

Is this just like a. I'm gonna make some sweeping generalization. But are they just a traumatized generation coming off of multiple wars?

[V (possibly a co-host or contributor)]

I think so. I think that they. They came into a world that was, you know, if you grew up in the 50s and 60s. Right. That was the idyllic time. That was the. Don't. Post World War II. Please don't talk about anything. We're just a working family with a white picket fence. And, like, we can't talk about the traumas of war. And America is the greatest country on earth. And then they experienced firsthand the integration of schools, the passing of the Civil Rights Act, Roe v. Wade. Seeing their mom be able to leave a domestic abuser, if that's what happened. Seeing their mom be able to get a job and be. And them themselves being able to get a job. But they're in an in between area where the expectations of religion and family still made them all. Almost all of them get pregnant or married in their early 20s. And now they're in a position where they're like, well, I endured it where I didn't know where I was just trying to be a good American. And I have a lot of sympathy for that. But you can help us vote out the bad people who did this to you.

[Tara Palmeri]

Get rid of them all. This is the end of the gerontocracy being led by V. Yeah.

[V (possibly a co-host or contributor)]

Enjoy your retirement and let the millennials take over the government and leadership and business, and I promise you, you'll have a good time. We love you guys. We'll take care of you. You know, Millennials are people pleaser.

[Tara Palmeri]

Milligans are waiting for you in villages.

[V (possibly a co-host or contributor)]

Margaritaville, you know, let us have it. Get them out of here. I swear, I see the people my parents are friends with, and I remember them growing up. My mom Used to do this thing every Thursday where she would have coffee, and it was just like, 12 moms sitting around talking shit about everybody in town and the kids. And I loved it. I loved it. But, like, that was toxic, you know? And she would stress. We had to get certain kind of china that she would put out that day. We would clean like crazy because people are so judgmental. I'm like, my. Your whole friendships were based on, like, high heels, skinniness, and red lipstick and, like, what your kids look like being perfect. And did you do this perfectly? What a stress. And those people are still trying to be empowered. Get out of here.

[Tara Palmeri]

Yeah, you're right.

[Dr. Leslie Dobson]

I really. I sat down with my dad last night. He's 74. And I said, have you even looked at the files? And he said, no. And I said, well, let's do it. We were at a bar. I was like, let's go to justice.govepstein. and I walked him through converting one of the files to a video to the jail cell video that cuts the 23 seconds, and he was like, holy. Holy shit.

[Tara Palmeri]

Yeah, they don't want to know. So many men are just like, don't tell me. I don't want to hear about. I don't want to know. I doubt my dad. Look through it. I'm sure he's trying to just, like, clear. Oh, Pan.

[V (possibly a co-host or contributor)]

Chet did ask me about it. I want to say one more thing about the boomer women, because I see Lauren in here saying, don't generalize about older women. We are the hub of the resistance. Also, that. Okay. I see you guys out there at the pride parades giving away mom hugs for people who didn't get any, and I appreciate that. I see you with the no kings. I see you supporting us. I see you donating to us. But it's a. It's a different kind of power structure where, like, we all need to be included in getting rid of the bad boomers. I totally agree. I'm not generalizing that everybody should step away, but we need to make the bad people step away.

[Tara Palmeri]

Yeah. It's not all boomers. I love my parents.

[V (possibly a co-host or contributor)]

I love them. They're so cute.

[Tara Palmeri]

They might be a little too young

[Dr. Leslie Dobson]

b boomers, but I understand, like, psychological.

[V (possibly a co-host or contributor)]

They're like, 16.

[Tara Palmeri]

Yeah. Boomers are 16. Yeah. Yeah.

[Dr. Leslie Dobson]

But a lot of people want to be ignorant, because ignorance is bliss a lot. Also, older people can't handle it. It's too dark. It's too depressing. They're looking at end of life that last quarter, and they don't want their mind to be consumed with it, you know, so there are valid reasons. But then again, you know, at least don't dissuade other people from doing it and, you know, empower those who are trying to push forward with it.

[Tara Palmeri]

Yeah, but I'm not.

[Dr. Leslie Dobson]

I mean, I have so many survivors.

[Tara Palmeri]

You know what does terrify me though? The next wave. A little bit too Gen Z in the lie.

[V (possibly a co-host or contributor)]

No, like, he freaks me out a little bit sometimes.

[Dr. Leslie Dobson]

The next wave of trafficking.

[Tara Palmeri]

No, I was thinking about some of the next wave of leadership that we've got.

[V (possibly a co-host or contributor)]

Oh, well, we got to get to Gen X next. And they could be a little nihilistic and a little bullyish sometimes. They're little toughies with their latch key drama. For sure they do. They were like alone. They were roaming the streets, the Gen X's. And now they're like, fuck everybody. I run the government. Toughen up. You know, there's gotta be like some balance.

[Tara Palmeri]

I know. They do, they do.

[Dr. Leslie Dobson]

How do you guys think it's gonna go? You know, through the primaries, like just all the way to 2028. Like what does Epstein. How do. What do you think's gonna happen?

[Tara Palmeri]

Well, I do think, like there is a generation that's sort of safe from it. J.D. vance, for example, would be like our first millennial, I think. Right. To run as president will be, I believe. Yeah, he's my.

[Dr. Leslie Dobson]

Like I'm his age. Like we're the same age.

[V (possibly a co-host or contributor)]

I know.

[Tara Palmeri]

It's kind of creepy, isn't it?

[Dr. Leslie Dobson]

I would be a horrible president because I'm. I have no world experience in comparison to somebody who's 60 or.

[Tara Palmeri]

Well, I don't know if I'd want a six year old. I want to see. How old was JFK when he became president? He was pretty young. He was in his 40s. Yeah, I think a 40 year old can handle it. I feel like I'm old enough to run a company at this point.

[V (possibly a co-host or contributor)]

33. 33 is Jesus year. Right? That's the day that, that's the year that changes you. Even Jesus found 33 hard. And then after that I think like 38. You really are like, you know what? I'm done growing. This is who I am. And I'm just gonna be happy with it and I'm gonna like, have a really good next, like 20, 30 years.

[Tara Palmeri]

You have to step into it at some point and own it.

[Dr. Leslie Dobson]

And it's who surrounds you as well. It's. It's who surrounds you with knowledge and education and like appropriate professionals. Around you, not just people you're putting in place as bobbleheads or a shield to eventually make fall, which I suspect will happen. And they're all women.

[V (possibly a co-host or contributor)]

I don't think J.D. vance is going to make it to 28, honestly. I don't think. Because you got to look at where the Republican Party is right now in terms of. Some people are desperate, secretly clinging to the fact that this Trump loyalty that they pledged for the last 10 years will pay off for them. It will not. It was always a Ponzi scheme. It was always a scam, it was always a con. It will not pay off for you.

[Dr. Leslie Dobson]

He doesn't.

[Tara Palmeri]

There's only loyalty to himself. It doesn't extend the other way around.

[V (possibly a co-host or contributor)]

You could see Stefan, Nancy Lees, Marjorie Taylor Greene, all that's your canary in the mind. Okay? That's how it's going to go for you, Mark Wayne, that's how it's going to go for you. Everybody who was super Trump. And I think that's how it would go for J.D. vance too. The problem is the. The new right wing actually wants people to be even more extreme. They want people to be even more comfortable using the word Nazi. Like, if you look at the Nick Fuentes type side of the right wing, he doesn't think Trump does enough to be patriarchal or misogynistic. They think you should be even more bold with it.

[Tara Palmeri]

And I think I'm worried about younger,

[Dr. Leslie Dobson]

but I really, I. It is incredible. Incredible to me that Nick Fuentes is a virgin. It's not incredible in the sense that I'm surprised. It's that people actually take him seriously when he has never even gotten laid. Like, where is the life experience to talk about relationships or to guy he's like this kind of makeshift life coach that's just taking us straight to hell. Yeah.

[Tara Palmeri]

Because the people that are listening to him are exactly like him.

[V (possibly a co-host or contributor)]

It's called like the incel universe to be like him. They're being like, you hate women so much that you couldn't possibly be. It used to be so if you go to pickup artists type stuff from Millennials age, it was all about how many girls could you get. Like they were trying to get girls, they were trying to have sex. Being a virgin was a bad thing. Now they're treating it like Sparta, like Rome. Like, being with a woman is less time that you could be on stream making money. Being with a woman or having to pay for a date or have sex, that's less time, literally, you can make on stream. Why would I go clavicular again, saying I don't go on dates unless I can stream them because what's the point in me like enjoying going mini golfing or to get ice cream if I can't make money at the same time? And Adam Freeland again was like, there's a currency in like having a girl like you. Have you ever felt that? Like, it, it feels like money. It feels better than money when girls like you. It's awesome when girls like you. And so he was like, yeah, I guess, I guess that's. That is a kind of value, I guess. So He's. It's like the first time this kid's ever heard this. There is this thing in the manosphere and can I say this on your show? It's a little bit gross. I'm going to say it on your shelf. You can cut it. I think it's fine.

[Tara Palmeri]

Don't give them, give them a heads up.

[V (possibly a co-host or contributor)]

Okay, here's the heads up. Here's this thing. Now there's this guy Jed on my team who does my research. Jed is an expert on like the deep Internet, like the weird ass parts of the Internet. And he'll sometimes bring it to me to be like, hey, this is happening in like the dark parts of the Internet. One of the things that he brought about a year back was this idea that the manosphere had become so anti woman that they were actually performing oral sex on each other as a sign of respect to the other man. So it's like, I'll do this for you, you do this for me. Because we're bonded as brothers and here we don't need women because we could do this for each other. And it's not gay. It's. It's like Sparta. It's like a Roman Empire thing. It is.

[Tara Palmeri]

And all men think about as Roman. The Roman Empire, right? Apparently, yeah.

[V (possibly a co-host or contributor)]

You guys are doing gay stuff and that's okay. Some of you maybe are gay. I think there are two kinds of gay here. I think there are people who are genuinely gay because they love men and that's who they are. And I think there are men who have convinced themselves that they hate women so bad that they have to be gay because they still crave human touch and affection, but they hate women or have been trained to hate women so much they don't become an option and sex becomes transactional.

[Tara Palmeri]

Why are, why are we so bad?

[V (possibly a co-host or contributor)]

I love them. I mean, I've been a lesbian since

[Tara Palmeri]

I was like 8.

[V (possibly a co-host or contributor)]

I never felt this way. So I feel like you guys Gotta know. Girls are awesome. They're so cool. They're great. They're so smart and pretty and nice. Like, what's wrong with you?

[Dr. Leslie Dobson]

I mean, but we are the deepest threat to the narcissistic man. Right. Like, we are capable of causing the biggest wound. We are outspoken and intelligent and something that has its own autonomy to decide if you get to touch us. Hopefully now they want to change all that, but we're the one thing they can't control. And so again, we go back to the Epstein and the child stuff, and, well, there's something they can control, a very small human being. There's something they can finally take their anger out on. And there are a lot of boys involved, but it is largely female victims.

[Tara Palmeri]

I actually never heard of any boys involved. I'll be honest. Like, I've been. I've been investigating this for many years, and, like, I never came across a single victim that told me that there are boys involved. I'm gonna be honest. I mean, I'm not saying it didn't happen, but I've been on this since 2019. I have multiple podcasts, you know, done. Yeah. Lots of research. Um, but I think with Epstein, he was a true pedophile. I think he saw himself with wanting a God like status, and I think he felt that being like a mere mortal would mean that he could be restricted by age. And what he really wanted was virgins, like a lot of kings have wanted in the past. Right. Like, the whole idea of having young girls is not something that everyday people could do. And. And he manipulated them. Like, he got them to love him. I mean, they did even when they were arrested, though.

[V (possibly a co-host or contributor)]

Do you think it's because he had a weird penis? That he wanted to be people's first, so they couldn't compare it to anything for sure.

[Tara Palmeri]

But then there were, like, there were orgies and there were other men involved. Yeah. And so, like, he definitely had. And I do think he was, like, had some sexual dysfunction. But, like, ultimately there. I do think it was about having control over young girls. And I think it was also, like, a truly a God complex. I think he thought, I don't have to live by the rules. And it also extends not only to the trafficking, but to the other, you know, money laundering, you know, passing off

[V (possibly a co-host or contributor)]

security culture, too, where they're like, oh, your only value as a girl is your virginity. So.

[Tara Palmeri]

Yeah, and he wanted. Right. And even the fact that he would, like, starve the girls, like, make them look like kids. Yeah, exactly.

[Dr. Leslie Dobson]

I think we need to use Our

[V (possibly a co-host or contributor)]

terms that the Brazilian wax came into popularity in the 80s and 90s. Like, women started to have more autonomy and adult women weren't giving men the submission that they wanted. And then they were like, okay, I'm gonna go after little girls.

[Tara Palmeri]

Like, I don't know, actually.

[Dr. Leslie Dobson]

But I think it shaped our culture, largely shaped our culture with looking younger and cleaner and hairless. But to go back to the file, like, a lot of the files do mention little boys. I'm with my boys, bring the boys. And they could be talking about buddy, buddy system. But there are some very. There is mention to. My preference is a little boy. But I think it's important that we do because I've looked through hundreds of thousands of them. Like, I've been feeding it to Congress because they don't know what they're doing.

[Tara Palmeri]

Yeah, well, that's a whole other story.

[Dr. Leslie Dobson]

But wait, I forgot my point. Yeah, there are a lot of little boys mentioned in it, but we have to be careful with the word pedophilia. Right. Because pedophilia is this six month focus in action on a gender specific prepubescent child. Right. And. And we've seen a lot of range in these files. So what? I would, I wouldn't call him a pedophile, maybe in a sense, but I would call him and a lot of them sexually violent predators. And like, they, it falls under a completely different level of violence. And it, it is that psychopath, that narcissist, that antisocial.

[Tara Palmeri]

But he would tell the girls, like, you're gonna age out. Like, I don't know how that happened. I told teenage girls, like, you're going to be too old for me soon. He told that to Virginia. He's like, she's like. He's like, you're getting too old for me.

[Dr. Leslie Dobson]

That's. But that argument is what the other side is going to use against this. It's that we need to see this as an umbrella. Pedophilia is only a piece of this umbrella. Yes.

[V (possibly a co-host or contributor)]

Like, medical term is like. Yeah, okay, right.

[Dr. Leslie Dobson]

If we, we need to step back and see the forest for the trees, which is that they were absolute monsters and multifaceted monsters.

[Tara Palmeri]

Yeah, I guess so. I mean, I, I just think, like, it's. He. He could have had any woman he wanted, really. He was a really wealthy guy. He wasn't bad looking. You know what I mean? Like, he had multiple homes, private jet. He could have gotten a lot of women. And he was not. He was, he was boring. But he was charming enough. Right. And he chose girls from a high school.

[Dr. Leslie Dobson]

Yeah.

[Tara Palmeri]

You know, and told them to bring their friends and the littlest of them. So I don't. I see that as like, a sickness. I don't see that as, like a. Like, he was dating Miss Sweden, you know, he was dating supermodels. He was named Bachelor of the Year, and instead. Yeah. By Cosmo.

[V (possibly a co-host or contributor)]

Oh, by Cosmo. Talk about them. Talk about groomers, Cosmos.

[Tara Palmeri]

Maybe it wasn't Bachelor of the Year, but he was named, like, he was noted bachelors. I'll actually find that out right now. Exactly what it was. But they gave him, like, some. A spread, and they did a whole thing about how he was such a desirable bachelor. And it was.

[Dr. Leslie Dobson]

I think. I think one thing we have to remember, though, is you don't have to be a pedophile to abuse a child. And that's the part of that umbrella scheme is.

[Tara Palmeri]

Oh, Bachelor of the Month. Excuse me.

[Dr. Leslie Dobson]

Good. Just a month. But you don't have to. You don't have to have a diagnosis. You don't have to really want to do that to a child to do it. Right. Not all psychopaths kill. Not all schizophrenics are dangerous. Right. We can't. These men got into these positions and then chose to do it, even though for most of them, it was not their preference. Now look at that. Power and authority and abuse. They. They were sadists. They wanted to hurt in order to gain power, and they had no empathy.

[Tara Palmeri]

I mean, perhaps there were some. I do think that in some cases, these were men that didn't know that the girls were underage. And I think Epstein used that as blackmail and leverage.

[Dr. Leslie Dobson]

But how could you not know? I mean, I think that's such a common argument.

[Tara Palmeri]

It's hard to tell if the girls are 17, 18, or 19.

[Dr. Leslie Dobson]

Like, we're talking about 13. I mean, that's what I mean.

[Tara Palmeri]

Those girls here was the problem with the Florida case. The Florida case. It was like, first of all, they had 80 counts against him, which was insane. Right. So, like, he should have been in prison for the rest of his life, but, like, it was. They didn't. They weren't really able to show, like, any of the girls from the high school being moved to the Virgin Islands or, like, being moved around, like, truly being trafficked. Not saying it didn't happen, but, like, that they, like, they could definitively show that it was happening in Palm beach, but, like, to move the girls around.

[Dr. Leslie Dobson]

But we have cross state lines.

[Tara Palmeri]

Well, I know from, like, Courtney Wilde, who is Jane Doe one that she like, wanted to go to the island and he like, wouldn't bring her. And she was like 14 or 15 at the time. So, like, maybe he didn't think that she was like the type for his friends. But I think that there was like, I don't know. I talked to a lot of the survivors that were around him and they said that it was, it was a little bit more like, nuanced the way that he ran it, the, the sex trafficking operation. And like, I do think there were underage girls that were trafficked, and I think he used that as leverage and exploitation. But I don't think every man that was friends with Jeffrey Epstein knew that they were having sex with an underage girl and, and chose that.

[V (possibly a co-host or contributor)]

I don't think that underage was 17 either. I think they think underage is like under 15 or some well care.

[Tara Palmeri]

They probably just didn't think the laws applied to them.

[V (possibly a co-host or contributor)]

Regardless, they were just partying.

[Dr. Leslie Dobson]

Yeah, yeah.

[V (possibly a co-host or contributor)]

Looking into that government thing, did you see that about how the government in the Virgin Islands was like, working with Epstein?

[Tara Palmeri]

Yeah, yeah. The, the, the. He was so close. I mean, he did this with everyone though. But, like, look at all the Democrats that he donated to. I mean, he used his connections whichever way he could. And to have your own island and like, be able to operate it basically without any impunity, he had to have those contacts that entire, like the saint. St. Thomas needs to like, have a full reckoning. I think so does. So does New Mexico, where he was friends with Bill Richardson, who Virginia Giuffre accused of rape. Wonder how he got away with running a, a, a ranch that he wanted to impregnate girls at.

[V (possibly a co-host or contributor)]

That's gonna turn into a Christian retreat, Tara. So they'll, you know, for the only thing that gives me any, like, feeling of safety with the super far right Christians is that they're anti surrogacy and anti ivf, which I think is bad in general policy. But for the fact that they won't turn Zoro Ranch into a surrogacy farm. Or maybe they will. I mean, I don't know. That guy is also weird.

[Dr. Leslie Dobson]

I can't believe this is our reality. I mean, I can because this is what I do, but I can't. I just.

[Tara Palmeri]

Yeah, like, we need. What is your.

[V (possibly a co-host or contributor)]

I don't know what you're. What do you mean?

[Tara Palmeri]

This is a forensic psychologist.

[Dr. Leslie Dobson]

Yeah, I know. I didn't introduce myself. I'm Dr. Leslie. I'm a forensic psychologist and I deal with sexual crimes and I did with the government on the inside, so the Predators for 15 years. And now I'm on the outside, largely with survivors, and now largely I go into prison on occasion. Like, if we're going to differentiate sex crimes and violence levels, we have to. We do have to objectively look at violence risk and if they're going to do it again and if they need to be in prison or if they can come out on an ankle monitor, things like that. But largely it's now civil litigation with high profile people who are accused or are accusing somebody of sexual violence. And so I conduct these lengthy sexually violent risk assessments to tell you if someone's, one, telling the truth and then two, if somebody is lying. And then I sign. The problem is I largely sign NDAs. And when it's come up to the level of Trump, not Trump specifically, but Trump adjacent, I can't talk about it.

[V (possibly a co-host or contributor)]

Right.

[Dr. Leslie Dobson]

I can't talk about it. And all the money in the world settles out of court almost every fucking time.

[Tara Palmeri]

Yeah.

[Dr. Leslie Dobson]

So I just, I speak from an area of. I know it's happening, I know what's going on. I just can't give you the real data. Like, Tara, like, we have a lot we can't say or we're going to get our pants sued off us.

[Tara Palmeri]

Yeah.

[Dr. Leslie Dobson]

Pun intended.

[V (possibly a co-host or contributor)]

Yeah, yeah. Because that's kind of what happened with the Epstein folks too. Right. They had that. The settlement possibility because they weren't getting any legal criminal, like, you know, anything. And so they're like, okay, civilly, here's where we could go. We could settle out of court, but that means that you can't talk about stuff, which it just seems like that should be illegal. It doesn't seem like you should be able to silence somebody forever.

[Tara Palmeri]

Yeah. For crime like that, you can't.

[Dr. Leslie Dobson]

Like, if I get, if I'm testifying in another trial and it's federal, that judge can mandate me to tell him every case I've been on and the results, and then that becomes discoverable information in the next trial. So there are savvy ways around it. Like, people could get the information out of me if they really tried, but they're the ones who don't want the information out.

[V (possibly a co-host or contributor)]

Somebody's asking in the chat here, is this something that could happen with the physicians that treated the girls? You know, obviously some of them maybe incurred some sort of injury during the violence, exploitation and emotional damage. Aren't they, Aren't doctors mandated reporters?

[Dr. Leslie Dobson]

Like, you know, a hundred percent. I mean, we. Even emotional abuse, like, they. All of These doctors have been reported to the licensing boards. They've all gone against their oath. And now, I mean, to report a medical doctor or the D.O. or O. D doctor, it can take like a year or two. So they've all been assigned investigations, investigators. I don't think they'll be working long once this starts going into motion. But again, it's that things are so redacted that we need. We need criminal evidence. Right. The survivors can go forward with the evidence that they have, but we, we don't have enough to impeach. We. We are, like, on the cusp of needing more. And that's where they've put us purposefully.

[Tara Palmeri]

Yeah, I don't think they ever took this story seriously. So that's why they never followed up with any of the tips. And they continue to say there are no third parties, even though anyone who took. But they never took the story seriously from the beginning, ever since 1996. So because they don't take the survivors seriously, they just look at their accounts as hearsay. So. And that is what we. That is the world we live in right now still to this day, where crimes against women are just gossip.

[Dr. Leslie Dobson]

What do you think about cbs?

[Tara Palmeri]

Where do we start?

[V (possibly a co-host or contributor)]

And your wife, who was very involved with Epstein, and her friend Peter, who's very involved with Epstein.

[Tara Palmeri]

I mean, where do we start? Who wants to start with that one?

[Dr. Leslie Dobson]

Which one?

[Tara Palmeri]

I said, where do we even start?

[Dr. Leslie Dobson]

Oh, I, I'm. How do you feel about the silencing of, of journalism right now and, and how CBS has been reacting?

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[Dr. Leslie Dobson]

Ding.

[Tara Palmeri]

I mean, it's been happening for a long time, but, like, I think this is probably one of the most extreme examples.

[Dr. Leslie Dobson]

Yeah.

[V (possibly a co-host or contributor)]

Anderson Cooper leaving 60 Minutes was a. I mean, I have no interest in CBS in the first place, but When Anderson left 60 Minutes, I was like, that is really creating the. Like, he's cutting a path for other people to follow him through.

[Tara Palmeri]

Right.

[V (possibly a co-host or contributor)]

And I think that that's a really important thing that he's doing. And it also to me was like, that is not a safe place. If Anderson, who's been there for like 20 years or whatever in 60 minutes is such an incredibly, like, legacy show that does such great work. If Standards is saying, I will not be here, it is not safe for anyone to be there. Because he's got a lot of power and if he can't swing it, nobody can swing it. So it's like, let's. Maybe that's, you know, that's how I see it.

[Tara Palmeri]

I think that he saw it as a reputational stain that he did not want to have anymore. He has the luxury of being Vanderbilt and what's his mother. Yeah. And then he's. And he also has another show. But, you know, I feel for a lot of my friends that work there and are really great journalists. And being at making it to 60 Minutes as a correspondent is like the pinnacle of a career.

[V (possibly a co-host or contributor)]

Yeah.

[Tara Palmeri]

And so it sucks.

[V (possibly a co-host or contributor)]

It's kind of over though. I think it. It looks. It looks like 60 minutes is over, which is devastating.

[Tara Palmeri]

But it's just such an expensive show to produce. And like, that kind of journalism is just really expensive.

[V (possibly a co-host or contributor)]

It is.

[Tara Palmeri]

And so we don't really have that kind of like beautiful magazine style appointment television on TV anymore. That was the last remnants of it that people would actually like go and watch TV and sit down for it.

[Dr. Leslie Dobson]

I don't know.

[Tara Palmeri]

People replace it.

[Dr. Leslie Dobson]

We're even gonna lose Court tv. Right. It was just bought by law and crime and it's being moved to YouTube, I think. I mean, we're.

[Tara Palmeri]

Yeah.

[V (possibly a co-host or contributor)]

Every time moved to YouTube. All of the shows, every single major news anchor on television now has been like, they worked over to the last year or so now has like a podcast or they're trying to do like a cultural show. They're trying to everywhere. I think that's actually sort of probably bad policy because people get sick of your face. Like, I even deal with that with social media. I try to be like, okay, relax, girl. Like, you don't need to do every single story. You're gonna get sick of you. So to have them on your TV and then trying to take up space on YouTube, trying to take up space, a podcast. But it's the same person. You gotta burn that person out. Number one and two. It's like too much of one person.

[Tara Palmeri]

That's true. Unless you're a sick person and you really just are obsessive. Guys, we're coming up on the hour. I know. This was fun. Thanks for everyone for joining our lunch. This was fascinating and obviously follow all of us. Dr. Leslie Dobson is new to Substack. Follow her. Yeah, about. Yeah, follow V. I dropped my substack

[V (possibly a co-host or contributor)]

on the Widow Kirk into the chat for folks, I really hope that you read it. It's free to read. All my stuff is free to read. Thankfully, we have the ability to do that. So please just check it out.

[Tara Palmeri]

I. I'm not there yet, but would like to be soon.

[V (possibly a co-host or contributor)]

I don't know how much longer. I don't know how much longer we could do that. But for today we have. We have the ability to do it.

[Tara Palmeri]

But yeah, yeah, I have a piece coming out tomorrow, I think, in Vanity Fair, and it'll be quite illuminating. And about the EP files, it's a investigative piece, so I'll also be featuring on Substack. So you guys will be able to see my companion thoughts and all of the reporting and wish I could have talked to it, talked about it today, but unfortunately these things take time.

[V (possibly a co-host or contributor)]

Wait, what time does it drop? Because I want to, like, set an alarm.

[Tara Palmeri]

Oh. I don't want to make any expectations because who knows how long. It's a magazine, they want to do it for tomorrow. So.

[V (possibly a co-host or contributor)]

Okay. All right, I'll be watching. I'll be refreshing the feed because I know that this is a banger.

[Tara Palmeri]

Tweet it. Okay. And send it to you. But thank you, guys. Thank you, everybody, for joining, for supporting, for being a part of this community. We are just trying to keep these stories relevant and have people, you know, never forgetting. Because when people forget, like, decades go by and there is no justice. So it's. It's you, like, you're the people who keep this alive. So thank you so much.

[V (possibly a co-host or contributor)]

Bye, friends.

[Tara Palmeri]

Bye. Cheers. That was another episode of the Tara Palmeri Show. Thanks so much for tuning in. I want to thank my producer, Eric Abenate, Abby Baker doing the research and social media, Adam Stewart on the graphics, and Dan Rosen, my manager. As always, you can head to tarapaumari.com and you can support my independent journalism by becoming a paid subscriber. It's a way to get my exclusive reporting straight to your inbox and just like, subscribe, Share. Tell all your friends about this, how you keep me in business. See you again soon.

[Tamsen Fadal]

Hi, I'm Tamsen Fadal, journalist and author of how to Menopause and host of the Tamsen Show, a weekly podcast with your roadmap to midlife and beyond. We cover it all, from dating to divorce, aging to adhd, sleep to sex, brain health to body fat and even how perimenopause can affect your relationships. And trust me, it can. Each week I sit down with doctors, experts and leaders in longevity for unfiltered conversations, packed with advice on everything from hormones to happiness. And, of course, how to stay sane during what can be well, let's face it, a pretty chaotic chapter of life. Think of us as your midlife survival guide. New episodes released every Wednesday. Listen now on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.