EXCLUSIVE: Katie Johnson Lawyer Breaks Silence About Epstein and Trump

Summary

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Podcast Summary: The Tara Palmeri Show

Episode: EXCLUSIVE: Katie Johnson Lawyer Breaks Silence About Epstein and Trump
Date: October 8, 2025
Host: Tara Palmeri
Guest: Reed Galen (Host of The Home Front)
Notable Contributors (Clips): Michael Cohen

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Overview

This episode dives deeply into the rarely-discussed case of "Katie Johnson," a Jane Doe who alleged that she was raped by Donald Trump at age 13 at Jeffrey Epstein’s townhouse in 1994. Just before the 2016 election, Johnson dropped her lawsuit—sparking questions, conspiracies, and silence. Tara Palmeri brings exclusive reporting and rare new insights from Johnson’s lawyer, Chaney Mason, and discusses the broader implications with Reed Galen. The conversation also widens to explore the political protection of Trump within the Republican Party, the media’s role, and the enduring lack of accountability around Jeffrey Epstein’s network.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Katie Johnson / Jane Doe Case

• Background & Mystery ([00:17–04:29])

  • Palmeri recaps the central facts: In 2016, "Katie Johnson" filed (and re-filed) a lawsuit accusing Donald Trump of raping her at age 13 at Epstein’s townhouse. The suit was dropped days before a scheduled press conference, right before the 2016 election.
  • Trump has always denied the allegations. Johnson has never spoken publicly or been tracked down since.
  • Palmeri sought clarity on why the lawsuit was dropped and why Katie Johnson has effectively vanished.

• Michael Cohen’s Role and Denial ([02:06–04:29])

  • Palmeri played clips of her tense interview with Michael Cohen, Trump’s former fixer.
    • Michael Cohen:
      “I said, you sure? He goes, Michael, it’s bullshit.” ([04:10])
      • Cohen recounted sending a private investigator to the address listed by Jane Doe (which turned out to be a parking lot in the Bronx) and contacting her legal counsel, who said they’d never even met their client.
    • Palmeri questions Cohen’s narrative: Why would a Jane Doe use a fake address if not for her own protection? Why so quick to dismiss?

• Lawyer Chaney Mason Breaks Years of Silence ([04:29–09:30])

  • Palmeri made extensive attempts to contact all of Katie Johnson’s lawyers; only Chaney Mason replied, speaking for the first time in nearly a decade.
  • Notable Quotes (via Palmeri’s reporting of Mason):
    • “I don’t know if my client is still alive.”
      “I would have been the happiest I’ve ever been if she came forward... It’s almost like [other victims] are quoting the affidavit I filed nine years ago.”
    • “We never have known why our client insisted on dropping the lawsuit. We don’t know where she is. We hope she’s alive.”
    • “There’s no doubt in my mind that she told the truth of everything that’s in her lawsuit, period.”
  • Mason confirmed the legal team spent days vetting and interviewing Johnson before filing. He cannot reveal more due to attorney-client privilege.

• Context: Media & Intimidation ([10:25–17:50])

  • Palmeri highlights the chilling effects of intimidation (e.g., private investigators harassing assault victims), referencing accounts from other Epstein survivors and former legal investigations.
  • She critiques mainstream media for dismissing or failing to follow up on the allegations, despite their persistent presence in the public conversation.

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2. Survivor Silencing & Vetting Allegations

• Toll on Victims ([17:01–17:50])

  • Palmeri emphasizes the overwhelming pressure and risk to high-profile abuse survivors, especially when their stories are actively discredited by powerful interests.

• Lawyer Vetting & Systemic Obstacles ([17:50–21:45])

  • Johnson’s lawsuit reportedly survived a thorough vetting process, including multiple lawyer interviews and separate investigations—contradicting theories that her story was simply made up.
  • Intimidation is cited as a strong reason for victims to withdraw or avoid the limelight.

• Notable Quote (Palmeri on lawyer vetting):

  • “He said he hired private investigators, spent days questioning her... there’s no doubt in my mind she told the truth.” ([16:58])

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3. The Political & Media Environment

• Republican Party Reluctance & Trump's “CR” ([09:44–10:25], [12:08–12:11])

  • Reed Galen:
    “What have you learned… as this became sort of top of mind for so many people again...? And then I want to talk about the political implications of the Republicans’ inability and unwillingness to deal with this.”
  • Palmeri discusses Republicans closing ranks around Trump and a continuing “drip, drip, drip” of information about his links to Epstein.

• Why the Case Matters ([10:25–13:00])

  • This is the only known case tying Trump to Epstein’s sex crimes network—not just an association, but an explicit allegation of abuse.

• Intimidation in the Legal Process ([13:00–17:01])

  • Private investigators, media campaigns, and legal maneuvering are described as common tactics for powerful men to suppress damaging stories and silence accusers.

• Mainstream Media Lapses ([13:46])

  • Palmeri sharply criticizes journalists for failing to challenge denials or dig into the details, instead often parroting official statements (“there have been no allegations against President Trump”).
  • She cites a CNN interviewer, John Berman, as an example.

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4. Broader Epstein Network: Politics, Connections, and Suppression

• Political Stonewalling on Epstein Files ([32:27–36:07])

  • Galen and Palmeri discuss Speaker of the House Mike Johnson’s repeated efforts to avoid a vote on Epstein documents—such as changing the House calendar to block action—framing it as protectionism for Trump.
  • Skepticism is expressed that the DOJ will ever release unredacted files.

• Senator Lisa Murkowski’s Vote and Web of Connections ([21:48–23:01])

  • Palmeri reports on survivors' anger towards Murkowski voting to block Epstein file release and traces connections between Murkowski and Ghislaine Maxwell’s circle through Arctic advocacy organizations.

• Mechanics of Epstein’s Sex Trafficking Network ([24:49–29:46])

  • Palmeri details the deliberate recruitment strategies, including the role of modeling agencies, fake promises, pyramid schemes in high schools, and enablers like Ghislaine Maxwell.
  • Notable Quotes:
    • “[Epstein] created one of the largest sex trafficking operations ever, probably.”
    • “He needed three massages a day… which were sexual abuse.”

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5. Survivors, Credibility, and Justice Obstacles

• Credibility Deficit for Victims ([29:46–31:52])

  • Palmeri references conversations with sexual assault prosecutor Deborah Turkheimer: survivors are forced to “come in with a credibility deficit,” while power and wealth are mistakenly equated with truthfulness on the part of the accused.
  • “They have to go above and beyond to find witnesses… and suffer the abuse all over again.”

• Case Studies: Virginia Giuffre, Prince Andrew ([31:27–31:52])

  • Palmeri details how it took 11 years for the UK to accept Virginia Giuffre’s account and settle with her, even when photographic evidence existed.

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6. Washington’s Self-Interest & Political Cynicism

• Swamp Politics and the Cost of Infighting ([41:08–45:41])

  • Palmeri and Galen discuss how intra-Republican feuds (especially between Team Trump and DeSantis-aligned operatives) are increasing primary costs and diverting resources, illustrated by the messy Texas senate race.
  • The segment sharply critiques the motivations of consultants and donors, arguing that profit trumps morality on both sides.

• Consultant Culture, Power Trading, and Moral Decline ([45:41–48:07])

  • “There is no morality in any of this stuff. It's all about money and power.” —Reed Galen ([45:41])
  • Palmeri: “This is how the swamp works.” ([45:41])

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7. Broader Political & Media Takeaways

• White House Power Dynamics: Trump & Stephen Miller ([38:07–39:45])

  • Palmeri characterizes Miller as a key “man behind the man” after January 6th, one of the few still firmly in the Trump circle.

• Vice Presidential Woes & Political Narratives ([47:44–50:53])

  • James Carville calls Kamala Harris’s book a “grievance tour,” and Palmeri concludes:
    “I think the thing that dogs you is when you lose, the stink of loss is hard to shower off.” ([49:05])

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• Michael Cohen on Trump’s Reaction:
  "He told me it was bullshit. Take care of it." ([03:52])
• Chaney Mason (as reported by Palmeri):
  “There’s no doubt in my mind that she told the truth of everything that’s in her lawsuit, period.” ([16:58])
• Palmeri, on survivors’ credibility:
  “These women come in with a credibility deficit… They have to go above and beyond to find witnesses… and suffer the abuse all over again.” ([29:46])
• Reed Galen, on political consultants:
  “There is no morality in any of this stuff. It's all about money and power.” ([45:41])
• Tara Palmeri, on survivors and the media:
  “It was worth it to understand the vetting process of her story, too, because it’s just so disregarded in the media…” ([17:50])

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• Introduction & Recap of Katie Johnson Allegations: [00:17–04:29]
• Michael Cohen Interview & Palmeri’s Analysis: [02:06–04:29]
• Exclusive Insights from Lawyer Chaney Mason: [04:29–09:30]
• Broader Red Letter Update & Media Critique: [09:30–13:00]
• Intimidation of Victims: Cohen & Private Investigators: [13:00–17:01]
• Survivor Silencing & Vetting Process: [17:01–21:45]
• Ghislaine Maxwell, Political Connections, and Filings: [21:45–23:01]
• Epstein’s Recruiting Network Explained: [24:49–29:46]
• Victim Credibility & Justice System Obstacles: [29:46–31:52]
• Current Congressional Maneuvers & File Release Politics: [32:27–36:07]
• Political Infighting, Donors & Consultants ("Swamp Stories"): [41:08–45:41]

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Memorable/Striking Moments

• Palmeri’s Persistence in Investigating the Case:
  Despite widespread silence, Palmeri reached out to all lawyers involved, chasing an exclusive that reveals how little is still known about Johnson’s fate or motivations.

• Cynicism about Ever Revealing the Truth:
  Palmeri doubts DOJ will ever fully reveal the Epstein files and suggests ongoing congressional games are about shielding Trump and others from fallout.

• National Reflection on Credibility and Power:
  Palmeri and Galen’s discussion underscores how institutional cynicism, political self-protection, and media failures conspire to keep survivors in the shadows and wrongdoers insulated.

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Tone

• Tara Palmeri: Persistent, deeply reported, fiercely skeptical of both official narratives and media detachment; empathetic to survivors and critical of power.
• Reed Galen: Cynical, world-weary, with biting humor and frank assessment of Washington dysfunction.

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Conclusion

This episode blends hard-hitting original reporting (including a rare on-record statement from Katie Johnson’s lawyer) and reflective analysis on how power, money, and intimidation silence survivors—even when their stories seem verified. The conversation ties the Katie Johnson mystery to larger patterns: why the Epstein file remains shielded, the culture of impunity in American politics, and the high price paid by those who try to speak out.

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Transcript

[Reed Galen]

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[Tara Palmeri]

Welcome to the Tara Palmieri Show. I want to start this episode with some of my exclusive reporting because so many of you have reached out to me, whether through email or comments, and I read all of them about a Jane Doe, a woman we've never heard from, connected to the Epstein case and President Donald Trump. As many of you may remember, there was a woman who alleged before the 2016 election that she was raped by President Trump in Jeffrey Epstein's townhouse when she was just 13 years old in 1994. In that case, she said, I loudly pleaded with defendant Trump to stop, but he did not. She also claimed that Trump threatened her and her family if she ever spoke out. Now, President Trump has denied these claims, but I always wondered, what were the circumstances around this case and why did this Jane Doe, who filed three times using the pseudonym Katie Johnson, decide to drop her lawsuit before she was supposed to do a press conference just days before the election? And I spoke to Michael Cohen about it. You might remember that interview. I had to ask him because he was Trump's fixer at the time and he was the guy who handled these problems for President Trump. Right at the time, it was Stormy Daniels who was speaking out. Karen McDougall, he gave them the hush money. So certainly he would have had to deal with a Jane Doe related to Jeffrey Epstein who claimed that she was raped by President Trump. And so I asked him about it. And you'll remember that interview. It was really contentious. Take a listen here.

[Michael Cohen]

Only case that I was involved with was a Jane Doe, an infant by and through her mom, Mary Jane Doe, right. As legal guardian. That case was dismissed not because of anything that I, well, I spoke to the lawyers and I've talked to, I've talked about this a million times. I turn around and I receive this summons in a complaint. And the averments in it are awful. They're despicable. It talks about basically rate of an underage female claiming and alleging that Donald was involved in it and all that other nonsense. I ended up taking a private investigator and trying to find out who this person was. And we went to the address that allegedly this minor lived at in the Bronx. Well, lo and behold, the investigator responds back and says the only thing that's there is an empty parking lot. It's, there's no building there. It's an empty lot.

[Tara Palmeri]

If you keep listening, you'll hear what Michael Cohen said. Said that Trump told him it was bullshit and that he should handle it. He also told me that he sent a private investigator to find her based on an address that was filed in the lawsuit, and it brought him to a parking lot in the Bronx. And so he then contacted a lawyer, he said, a male lawyer, who said they had never met their client before and that it was bullshit. But what. Did you take a look at Trump about it, though, when you. When you were like.

[Michael Cohen]

I did ask. I did ask him. He told me it was bullshit. Take care of it. I said, okay.

[Tara Palmeri]

That was it. That was it. It's bullshit.

[Michael Cohen]

He said, bullshit never happened.

[Tara Palmeri]

Hmm. Were you like, there's all these pictures. Is this gonna be a problem around the same time?

[Michael Cohen]

No. I said, you sure? I said, you sure? He goes, michael, it's bullshit.

[Tara Palmeri]

That's just the way he communicates. Like, you don't. You don't get much more info than that.

[Michael Cohen]

It's what he told me on this one.

[Tara Palmeri]

Yeah. And you believed him?

[Michael Cohen]

100%. Then he said to me, you know, let me know what happens. I said, sure.

[Tara Palmeri]

Obviously, I had to follow up on this. And by the way, why would a Jane Doe put an address of a parking lot in the Bronx? Well, maybe she doesn't want to put her real address because she doesn't want to be harassed by private investigators or goons. I remember Jane Doe 1, Courtney Wild saying that when she was going up against Jeffrey Epstein, that she had private investigators stalking her and they almost ran her off the road. And this is why so many victims of sexual assault file under names like Jane Doe to be anonymous. But, yeah, there's just so much fascination around Katie Johnson because she's never come forward again. And so I had to keep digging. So I called the lawyers, I called Lisa Bloom. She didn't get back to me. I called Thomas Meager. He didn't get back to me. I reached out to Evan Goldman. He didn't get back to me. But I did hear from one of Katie Johnson's lawyers, Chaney Mason. And he spoke to me for the first time in a decade, nearly a decade. He is telling the story of his client as much as he can tell without violating attorney client privilege. Privilege. But here are some of the things that he told me, which I found to be really interesting. I'm going to read them to you so I get it, right? These are his quotes. The first thing that he told me that was very shocking was he said, I don't know if my client is still alive. He said, quote, I would have been the happiest I've ever been if she came forward. Because I've seen women on television in the category of victim who tell such a similar story to what happened to her. It's almost like they're quoting the affidavit I filed nine years ago. Let's not forget that this Jane Doe filed this lawsuit in 2016, before Jeffrey Epstein was arrested, in 2019, before the world knew the horrors of his sex trafficking operation. The full extent of it. Thanks to the reporting of Julie K. Brown at the Miami Herald here. I want to tell you some more that he. Some more of the conversation that I had with Chaney Mason. We spoke over a number of days. I really wanted him to come on the podcast, by the way. He did not want to come on the podcast. He said this was all he could tell me, but he said I was free to use it. He said, we never, we never have known why our client insisted on dropping the lawsuit. We don't know where she is. We hope she's alive. So they still don't know why she dropped the lawsuit. Lisa Bloom told reporters that she was getting threats. Here's another thing he told me. You know, her lawsuit is often disregarded because President Trump denied it and she dropped the suit. But he thinks that the mainstream media should still be paying attention to it. And I called out CNN for saying that there were no allegations against President Trump in connection to Jeffrey Epstein. And in Cheney's own words, he said that he met with her over several days. He and his team, they flew her from California. And he said several of, he said, quote, several of us interviewed her and questioned her before we went through the process of filing the suit. He said, I sent private investigators to verify her story. I sincerely wish I had the ability to reveal everything, to find the client, confirm her true identity and try to convince her to back it up. There's no doubt in my mind that she told the truth of everything that's in her lawsuit, period. That's right. He said, there is no doubt in my mind she told the truth. Now, Katie Johnson, it's almost a mythical figure at this point because she has never come forward again. I have never met her. I am not planning to go find her. I think if she wants to come forward, that's up to her. I'm not going to hound her or harass her. That is her right. We don't know why she didn't want to go forward. We know that Lisa Bloom said she was experiencing threats and I could understand why she might want to live a low pro profile life, especially now that the person that she's accusing of, of rape is in power. But I just wanted you to get that update and I'm going to talk about it more in the upcoming podcast with Reed Gallen. He has his own podcast called the Home Front. This is a substack interview that we just recorded on Wednesday. We also talk about the news of the day. I hope you all enjoy it and thank you again for being subscribers on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcasts. But please, you can support this kind of independent journalism, the kind where you leave the questions, the comments, you tell me where you want to go and I go there by becoming a paid subscriber to the Red Letter. And you can do that by going to tarapalmieri.com that's T A R A P A L M E R I dot com. I'm going to keep going after the stories that you care about. I'm going to keep holding truth to power. Thanks so much.

[Reed Galen]

Welcome back to the Home Front. I'm your host, Reed Galen. Today I am joined by intrepid independent reporter, author of the Red Letter, Tara Palmieri. Tara, welcome back.

[Tara Palmeri]

Thanks for having me. Happy to be here.

[Reed Galen]

All right, so you have been busy, very busy. So I know you've been on the road and back and forth and everywhere in between. So tell us, you, your incredible reporting on the Jeffrey Epstein issue. I don't, I don't even think issue is the right word. Scandal. Shonda, if you're going to speak Yiddish, what have you learned? What has your reporting over the last several months as this became sort of top of mind for so many people again, have you learned something new? Have you, have new people come to the fore? And then I want to talk about the political implications of, of the Republicans inability and unwillingness to deal with this.

[Tara Palmeri]

Yeah, I think that that is where you start. Right? Like, why is there such a, why does no one in the Republican Party, you know, why are they protecting President Trump like this? Why is he so afraid of the story? Why is it dogging him? Why are these drip, drip, drips continuing to show a closer relationship between him and Jeffrey Epstein? And, you know, this feels like it's his CR tonight, so it's obviously worth exploring why and continuing to report it out. And you know, just recently in the Red Letter, which you can all sign up for, I just put out a piece this morning about the Jane Doe who Accused Jeffrey Epstein, accused President Trump of rape when she was 13 in 1994 at Jeffrey Epstein's house. And she filed three times and then withdrew her suit the day before the election in 2016, citing intimidation. So I really wanted to understand what was the context of all this, because we still don't know what happened. First, I spoke with Michael Cohen, who was President Trump's fixer at the time. He was dealing with the Stormy Daniels case. He was dealing with Karen McDougal at the same time. And he was the guy who handled these kind of things. And you know, so that's, that's, that was my first thinking. And I kept seeing Michael Cohen on tv basically saying, like, no, there's nothing there, there. Trump, you know, Trump and Epstein, it's nothing to pay attention to. So I was like, that's a little strange. How, how would he know? Right? How would you know enough to deny that there was anything? So I had to ask him.

[Reed Galen]

No one ever asked you about it. Why are you denying it?

[Tara Palmeri]

Right, exactly. Or like, what do you know then? Why should, why should we believe his denials? Can you give us some more information? And it just felt like none of the journalists who had him on their shows were really asking the follow up questions. So I, I asked him about Katie Johnson because this case was dropped right before the election when he was still his fixer. What happened there? This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Fiscally responsible financial geniuses, monetary magicians. These are things people say about drivers who switch their car insurance to Progressive and save hundreds. Visit progressive.com to see if you could save Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states or situations. So we talked and he wouldn't confirm that it was that law, that it was that Jane Doe. By the way, Katie Johnson is a pseudonym. It's not her real name. But he did say that there was a Jane, Jane Doe who was a child who filed ahead of the elections and head of the election. And, and he said that they sent a private investigator to go find her and they landed on a parking lot in the Bronx and for her address, the address she listed. And I was like, well, duh, she is a Jane Doe. Why would she put her home address that would reveal her identity, meaning that she should have never filed as a Jane Doe to begin with. So it's often that they choose their, the firm, the law firm that their lawyers are at, but sometimes they just choose random addresses. He said that Trump told him it was bullshit and to handle it and that's what he did. He sent out a, a private investigator, which is obviously incredibly intimidating. And in these sexual assault cases, you know, it's the, it's the private investigators that are digging through your life that are following you that really tend to cause a lot of these Jane Doe's to back out of the cases. I remember interviewing one of the Jane Doe one in the Epstein case, and she said that Epstein had so many private investigators on, on her that they nearly ran her off the road. And, and you saw that in the first case the state attorney took up when they were presenting it before the grand jury in Palm beach county, they used all this opposition research that Alan Dershowitz's private investigators had basically found on these victims, saying they were basically sluts because they were on MySpace and they were teenagers, you know, prostitutes. Teenage prostitutes was basically what he was saying. So this is the part of these investigations that makes it really difficult for these women to come forward. So I just had to understand, like, what was the intimidation? Why did this woman drop her case the day before the election? She was set to do a press conference and I wanted to know more about her and if this is part of the reason why President Trump doesn't want these Epstein files out, because it's the only known case that we know of that connects him with Jeffrey Epstein. Not, not connects them. We know they were friends or tons of pictures. But the only, like, you know, improper behavior, he denies it, she dropped the allegations. And so the mainstream media just sort of brushes it off. Like I saw on cnn, John Berman, who is a great journalist who I respect, he was doing an interview with a congressperson and who brought this case up. And he was like, he basically said there have been no allegations against President Trump. There have been no accusations. Like, no, there have been, but the case was dropped because of intimidation. So I think it's worth looking into. Fast forward. A few weeks ago, I decided to call her lawyers and see if any of them were the ones that dealt with Michael Cohen on the case. Because he said he spoke to a lawyer who said that he had never met his own client and that it was bullshit and they dropped the case because of it. So I was like, did you ever talk to Michael Cohen? I was unable to find a lawyer that said that they had talked to Michael Cohen on this case, but some of them just didn't respond to me. So that could have been the case too. But, but one did, and his name is Chaney Mason and he is, he was one of her attorneys and you know, he's one. He's a, like, respectable attorney. He's won awards and stuff like that. He had some leadership positions in the Bar Association. And, you know, he told me in an interview, very brief one, because he can't really, you know, talk about it without her permission. He said, there's no doubt in my mind she told the truth. He said he hired private investigators, spent days questioning her, and then they filed a suit. And this is the first time he's speaking nearly a decade later. And he said he doesn't know if she's alive. He doesn't even know why she dropped the suit. He doesn't know who got to her, what happened. All he knows is she went underground and they never saw her again. And that's it.

[Reed Galen]

Well, and, you know, not to. Certainly not at all, to minimize what this young woman has allegedly gone through, but I guess, Tara, in all of your reporting about this particular story, can you really blame her at this point, given the nature of the environment, given the nature of how much fear? Clearly, President Trump and the White House and all of the, you know, you mentioned the mainstream media, but all of his congressional allies, all of his political allies, even the ones who are clearly still upset about the fact that Trump is not going forth in his promises, because, again, this is such a foundational piece of the MAGA movement. Can you really blame her for saying, you know, what, like, this was a horrible deal, but, like, trying to come out now? Could you blame her for just hoping it all goes away, which, of course, we know it won't?

[Tara Palmeri]

Yeah, I mean, this happened back. She came. The amazing thing about her was that she came forward in 2016. Jeffrey Epstein was arrested again in 2019. Her story is so similar to the stories of so many survivors that you really didn't hear from until Julie K. Brown came forward with her investigation. It's almost like it's just so similar. And she was at a party. She was aspiring model. There were a number of girls there. She was told, there were orgies that she was told to pleasure, according to her, to pleasure. You know, the president, the former, you know, Donald Trump. And it's, you know, then she was threatened that if she told anyone, he would come after her family. It's a really. I mean, he denies all of this. And, you know, she's a Jane Doe, and she never came forward like she was planning to. She was supposed to have a press conference the day before the election. But, you know, we just, we don't know what happened to her. And everybody, the Reason I kept pursuing this story is because I just keep getting messages all the time from people, comments, emails, and, you know, I built this red letter community. It's. It's based on, you know, my. Based on a community of trust, credibility. But also I'm listening to my. I'm listening to the people inside of it, and I want to know what they want to know. And Katie Johnson's name just kept. Kept coming up, and they kept asking me to, you know, to. To. To speak to her lawyers, to try to find her. I don't believe that I should have. Not that I should have to. I don't want to bring this woman forward or go there and make her do what she wants to do. If she wants to come forward, you know, she knows where to find me, she knows where to find others. I think there's a reason that we haven't heard from her in a long time. And the trauma that you experience, you know, especially when your story has been discredited by some of the most powerful people in the world, it's. It's really difficult. So she'll come forward when she's ready to. But in the meantime, I think it's. It was worth it to understand the vetting process of her story, too, because it's just so disregarded in the. In the media. It's like, it's. It's almost like this out. It's almost like this suit was never filed. It was filed three times. So, yeah, I think it's interesting. And then I've done other reporting on, you know, my com, what I've known from speaking with the survivors of Jeffrey Epstein, like Virginia Giuffre and how she had been speaking with Elon Musk, and he said he would help her release the files. And then also, you know, one of the survivors of Jeffrey Epstein was actually really upset when Lisa Murkowski voted. She was a deciding vote against releasing the files. And she looked into this, the senator in Alaska and, And what her connections might be to Jeffrey Epstein. And what we found was like a really tangled web that connected her to Glenn Maxwell and Glenn Maxwell's husband through this Arctic advocacy, Arctic Circle advocacy groups, like they were at, you know, conferences. They had a friend in this, a mutual friend in this donor in Alaska who owned the newspaper at the time. And, you know, her husband, Glenn Maxwell's husband was working in maritime trade and, and obviously in Alaska. And he had known Murkowski for decades. And it's. And Glenn Maxwell was laundering her name, her bad reputation at the time for Being associated with Epstein through this Terra Mar Sea philanthropy. So, you know, there's all. All of these connections. So we. We also unveiled that. And that's sort of, you know, what I've been doing is continuing to report out what's going on beneath the surface in the Jeffrey Epstein story as to why we still haven't gotten the files and. And what's. Why people are voting against it.

[Reed Galen]

So let me ask. Maxwell was married.

[Tara Palmeri]

I know everyone's really shocked by that one, right?

[Reed Galen]

Yeah. Where's this guy? And, like, what. I mean, was it because she came from a wealthy family? Like, what was in it for him? Because clearly she was out doing some pretty horrific things. Not at all what you would call. You know, it's not for me to moralize, but, you know, even this would be pretty far outside the bounds of any typical relationship.

[Tara Palmeri]

Well, they met at Arctic Circle conference where he spoke, and Lisa Murkowski beamed in because she couldn't come arrive there. She. She was a speaker as well, but she had to beam in. They were all together on the same stage in the following year. But, yeah, they met through this Arctic Circle conference. This whole, like, sea conference circuit was how they met. And he was a father of three. She got him to leave his family and that. Yeah. And they were married until, I think. I mean, they're still married. I think they're just estranged. And I believe I saw some reporting that he broke up with her over the phone while she was in prison. She was hiding with him. I mean, that was. That was where she was in hiding.

[Reed Galen]

I mean, Tara, you couldn't. If. If you wrote this script and you took it to Netflix, they wouldn't buy it.

[Tara Palmeri]

Oh, no, I know. Especially when you think they wouldn't buy it. It's too dark and crazy. And the atrocities that, like, so many of these survivors have suffered with. I mean, I. I think about Britney Giuffrei, who I knew really well and who I traveled with all over the country, trying to, like, work on verifying her story. And, you know, her book will come out, and I almost think it is just too graphic and too horrific to even believe. Like, it was not made to be scripted in so many ways. But her story will come out. I found her to be very credible. I know that they have worked relentlessly to try to pick apart her story. But, you know, I also think when you've been so abused as a teenager, and her abuse started when she was even younger than that at home, and then she was trafficked again, like, 11 years old. You know, it's. I don't think all of her memories were perfect in terms of, like, the timeline. But then again, I'm like, could I remember the timeline of when I was 16 or 15? Like, no. But her story is so similar to so many others, and she had so many witnesses that remember her and who she remembered. And in one of. In the podcast Broken, Jeffrey Epstein, I remember when we showed up at the house of Jeffrey Epstein's former butler, houseman, driver, chauffeur, whatever you want to call him. He was the one who drove Glenn Maxwell the day that she found and groomed and recruited Virginia Giuffre. And he recalled meeting her and his impression of her, and they hugged and they recalled what it was like in the house. And it just seemed so horrific.

[Reed Galen]

Let me ask you that, because that is one thing. I think the last time we spoke, you might have. You might have mentioned this. But again, you know, whether or not it was Virginia or this, the young woman who's the Jane Doe, there was. These things weren't one offs. There was a system. There was a pipeline. So take us through, you know, how. How a young girl, you know, is. Is drawn in by whatever means, and then how it all works from that moment until, you know, now you're. You're being literally passed around.

[Tara Palmeri]

So first of all, he created one of the largest sex trafficking operations ever, probably. I mean, it was. This network was crazy. He also had a modeling agency, international modeling agency, with a guy named Jean Luc Brunel called MC Squared, by the way, Jean Luc Brunel mysteriously dies in a French prison by being hung. Sounds a little familiar, right?

[Reed Galen]

I know. The only thing that would have been more suspicious was if he had thrown himself at a seventh floor window.

[Tara Palmeri]

Right? Right. Well, yeah. And Ghislaine Maxwell's father is pushed off his yacht or dies off his yacht. She believes he was murdered. He also had connections with Jeffrey Epstein, but yeah, so he basically. Well, first of all, there was the fact that they would find these, like, really ambitious, young, beautiful girls who wanted to be models. And he was friends with Les Wexner, who was the founder of Victoria's Secret. So, sure, he had that pipeline. He also had his own modeling agency. So he used that pipeline especially to bring foreign girls there who didn't have, like, act like they didn't. Some of them didn't have passport. Some of them were just being trafficked internationally, which sadly happens all the time, especially.

[Reed Galen]

Right. So they've got. So they've got no place to go, no real Way to find other accommodation. No way to really go to anybody. They're scared they're going to go to the police in a foreign country where they don't have any way of proving that how they got here.

[Tara Palmeri]

Yeah, exactly. And also where they came from was probably pretty bleak too. Then you had the girls in the Palm Beach High School, the Palm Beach Gardens High School, I believe it was across from Palm Beach. So this is not, this is not a wealthy neighborhood. This is like the other side of the tracks, you could call it. Just so happens to share the words Palm beach, but it's not the other.

[Reed Galen]

Side of the Intracoastal.

[Tara Palmeri]

Yes, yeah, exactly. And so these girls, they set up a pyramid scheme there where if you brought one girl, you would get $300. And so then you would also get paid to give him a massage. So he was able in his Palm beach house to get three massages, massages a day from the girls in the Palm Beach High School three times per day, which is what he said he needed. Massages were sexual abuse and he needed to have three orgasms essentially per day. So that was how he brought over a number of girls. Because these girls really didn't come from much. I mean, what they were getting paid by Epstein, 300 was probably more than their fathers made in a week. So that was another way that he did it. A lot of them came from broken homes, had been molested before he, they picked prey that would be easy. Like this is what predators do. So, so yeah, that was another way. And, and then in. The others were recruiters. I mean, they were, a lot of them were aspiring models, you know, singers, actresses. And they said, especially Glenn Maxwell. I mean, she gave him a lot of carte blanche. She helped him, you know, get access to girls that wouldn't feel safe spending time with a 50 year old man at the time, but really a woman. And she would say that he would, she was his wife or his partner and she would bring them in and say, we can make your dreams come true. We're just a family that doesn't have kids and we'll take care of you. And, and this was the, this was the story that you heard from a lot of them that they felt that they were being tricked. Right. By Delenn.

[Reed Galen]

Let me ask, I mean, this is, this is a broader philosophical sociological question, Tara, which is, it's, the scale of. This is unprecedented to say the least. But this is not real, this is not unusual either right there. These sorts of predators are on the prowl all day, every Day, even as we speak. And it is. It is one, you know, horrifying. Secondly, that as you talked about, whether or not it was Virginia Dufrey or the Jane Doe, that nine times out of 10, the young woman is not believed, the man is believed. The institution that has housed it could be. Whether or not it's a company or a school or whatever it is, they go on about their lives. And it's nine times out of 10, I think there was a New York Times article that says this. It's the girls that leave. Right. It's the victims that are pushed aside and said for the greater good, they have to suffer.

[Tara Palmeri]

Yeah. I would say that these women come in with a credibility deficit. That's what this sexual assault prosecutor. I spoke with Deborah Turkheimer, who I often quote, she writes book called Credible. She talks about this. Especially vulnerable women. They come in with a serious credibility deficit. They are the ones who have the onus, and they're the ones who are forced to prove. Prove their story. Whereas people take the. Take the denial from a. A man who tends to be celebrated, powerful, wealthy, comes from prestigious positions as having more value than their account. Account. So they have to. They have to go above and beyond to find witnesses, to find women who have similar stories, and then they have to suffer the abuse all over again. And she says, in some ways it can be worse. And I can totally understand this, right. Some of these women, because they have to, you know, they have to hear the denial.

[Reed Galen]

Right. They have to relive it. Yeah.

[Tara Palmeri]

That's not the reliving it as much as it is like being called liars or being questioned and seeing their own community side with the powerful. It's another form of abuse. And. And we see it all the time. I mean, Virginia Giuffre came out in 2010 with her story of Prince Andrew. It took the crown 11 years. No, sorry, 2021. They decided. 21 years. Excuse. No, no. Is that 11 years? Yeah, yeah, 11 years. Excuse me. I'm not good at math.

[Reed Galen]

I was told there would be no math, Tara.

[Tara Palmeri]

Yeah, I know. I'm a writer. That's why I'm not good at math. It took them 11 years to finally acknowledge her and pay one of the. A historic settlement to her for what happened. And he obviously lost some of his titles. Not all of them, but some of them. But he even said that the photograph of them was. Was falsified.

[Reed Galen]

Right. Because he doesn't sweat or something. Right. Like something just ridiculous. I mean, it's. And again, the. The. The horrificness is, is, is, is trumped, so to speak, only by the willingness of so many people to deny things, to stay quiet, to not do that. So let's, let's bring it up to the present day. So right now we have a government shutdown going on. And so I want to, I want to talk about Speaker Mike Johnson for a second. So he has, I think, sent his conference home yet again.

[Tara Palmeri]

Right.

[Reed Galen]

So they're all scattered to the winds. He has not ceded Rep. Electrijalva from New Mexico, who would be the 218th signature on a discharge petition about, about Jeffrey Epstein. And so take us through your experience. I mean, he is, I will say this. No one expected that this man, probably least of all him, was going to be speaker of the House. But they're all, there's only so much political energy, Right. Or strategic capacity that even the speaker of the House or the White House has. So give us a sense from your experience about how you think they're dealing with all this, because there's only so many flaming frying pans he can juggle at once.

[Tara Palmeri]

Yeah, I mean, I would agree. I didn't, I don't think anyone thought that this guy was, was going to be speaker of the House. I was like Mike Johnson, who, I mean, we all were. But no, now he, I mean, and I don't think we're at all surprised that he was just going to become a lackey for Trump. And this is what, that's a perfect example of it. I mean, you're literally, this is the second time he's changed the congressional calendar to avoid an Epstein vote. The first time was the summer in July. He let them break early for recess. By the way, we're paying them when they're breaking early. These are civil servants. We pay these people. We pay their staff, too. And they get, they get longer breaks because he doesn't want to take a vote on Epstein.

[Reed Galen]

Right. When they already had all of August off.

[Tara Palmeri]

Yeah.

[Reed Galen]

And most of August off.

[Tara Palmeri]

And. Yeah. So again, they, he's stalling to confirm her because we do know that in the past that they've confirmed members that were Republicans during recess. Not recess during, like when the chamber was not.

[Reed Galen]

Right. He can do it anytime he wants.

[Tara Palmeri]

Yeah, he can do it if he wants to. He doesn't want to. But they're just kicking the, they're just kicking it down the can down the road. I mean, here's, here's the reality. Like, I actually don't think that the DOJ will ever produce all the files.

[Reed Galen]

Right.

[Tara Palmeri]

If they do, it will be extremely redacted. Like what you see right now on the FBI's website in their Epstein vault. It's, that's the problem. It's like you don't know what's behind the blocks of lettering that, that white blocks used to be black, but I think people realized they could kind of figure out the number of the letters and figure out the names that were behind it. But yeah, now they've made it even more difficult. They've made it more difficult to, to see what is behind those redacted documents. It's, it's crazy.

[Reed Galen]

Well, at some point they just won't release anything and say, come make us. Right? Who's gonna make me?

[Tara Palmeri]

Well, yeah, it's. The DOJ's never really been good at policing itself, so.

[Reed Galen]

And they've never even, even in the best of times, they were never exactly huge fans of FOIA requests, right?

[Tara Palmeri]

Oh, yeah, that's almost people. God bless people who do FOIA requests. It's, it's a certain type of hell to deal with the back and forth. They'll kind of try to catch you on like a word to not give you the, the FOIA request information back. So. Yeah, then it'll go back to the Senate, see if Lisa Murkowski continues to vote the way she does, and if it ends up on the President's desk, then yeah, and that's just looks pretty shitty. But it'll be a day of news and then he'll do something really crazy during that day that he vetoes it.

[Reed Galen]

So. Yeah, right, like maybe, yeah, maybe shoot a couple of priests in the head with pepper balls or, you know, right. Knock a, knock a congressional candidate across the street or send fat National Guardsmen from Texas to Illinois. I mean, this is, this. Let me just say as an aside, Tara, as you've watched this and you've covered the White House and you've covered Trump for so, so long that the, it's always fascinating how quickly their incompetence catches up to their rhetoric. Right? So they're like, you know, like if Greg Abbott was doing his job right, there was. For people who don't know what I'm talking about, there was a, there was an image of Texas National Guardsmen getting off a truck or something in Chicago this morning or somewhere in Illinois. And these were overweight guys. These were not guys in tip top physical shape. And you'd think that even Greg Abbott would be like, okay, can we find like 15, 20, like dudes in their early 20s who seem to be in good shape. No, they found, like, guys in their 40s. Right. Who do not look like they are not going to be able to chase a running pickle down the street. If you have not seen that video, look it up. It is absolutely hilarious as a pickle outruns law enforcement officers. But this is the world. Tara is running pickles, dancing and dancing animals in Portland. Right. I mean, it's. The world is upside down, for Christ's sakes. I mean, it really is upside down. And I'm not sure that that the impetus other than someone like Trump could create that. Right. Like the. The license for constant chaos and insanity. I don't know that anybody else could have. I don't know that he orchestrates it necessarily. But somewhere in that weird, ugly, you know, ability of his, and it is an ability, this stuff just occurs in ways that no one else could even have imagined.

[Tara Palmeri]

Yeah, yeah. No, I think you're right. It's. The execution has been mind blowing. But he's doing it. I mean, the things that he couldn't do during his first term, he's just doing it because he's surrounded by so many yes men. There's no one there to say no. This is crossing the line.

[Reed Galen]

So you know what? Tell us a little bit about Stephen Miller as you. As you've covered him or you know him, because he seems to be, you know, the man behind the man at this point.

[Tara Palmeri]

Yeah, I think he plants a lot of ideas. I think he likes to take credit for a lot of it as well. I think he relishes in this. This is his moment to enact every dream he's ever had. You hear it like the way he shouts on tv. It's very scary. Scary. Honestly, I don't understand. I don't understand what motivate. Like, I mean, I get what motivates him, but I think he probably creeps out Trump a little bit. Oh, for sure, yeah. Yeah, he definitely creeps out Trump. But loyalty above all else for President Trump.

[Reed Galen]

Right. Because for as weird as Trump is, he doesn't like weird people. Right?

[Tara Palmeri]

Yeah. But Stephen Miller was with him after January 6th. And I think you have to remember that, like, all the people that are with Trump right now, they were either never worked with him before, they were a lot of them former DeSantis staffers who were treated like or got fired, like Susie Wiles as chief of staff, or they are people who didn't abandon him after January 6th, and that is Stephen Miller. And believe me, most people thought that his political career Was dead. So. Yeah.

[Reed Galen]

And was. And while Trump was in the wilderness, you know, Miller was there with. Was it America First Legal or one of those front groups. Right. Day in and day out, you know, carrying the flag.

[Tara Palmeri]

Yeah. Everybody else was hitching their star to DeSantis and those people that hated DeSantis couldn't do that. So they stayed with Trump and they won in the sick game. Actually just wrote about this too, in the Red Letter, about how the Ron DeSantis Trump feud continues to play out, and particularly within his White House political staff. And it's gonna cost them millions of dollars more in the midterms.

[Reed Galen]

So take us through that. Is that because. Because there will be, there will be Trump candidates and there will be non Trump candidates and there will be primaries and the primaries will cost a lot. And so take us through that.

[Tara Palmeri]

Yeah. So like Trump's the establishment now or the anti establishment, whatever you want to call it. I think he's the establishment. Right.

[Reed Galen]

He controls literally everything. He is.

[Tara Palmeri]

The NRC is behind you. If the NRCC is behind you, those are the committees and Senate and the House. You are the establishment. He picks the candidates. He's the Golden King maker. His endorsement click clears a. Clears the decks. So his team hates Ron DeSantis. The bad blood goes way back. They hated Jeff Rowe, this consultant who won, who helped Glenn Youngkin win. He's very close to Ted Cruz. He had one of the biggest.

[Reed Galen]

Ted Cruz's guy, right?

[Tara Palmeri]

Yeah. He had one of the biggest consultancy firms in, in Washington. But they hated him by proxy of the fact that he ran ronda Santa's super PAC, the one that famously like torched $145 million.

[Reed Galen]

Right.

[Tara Palmeri]

And it was insane. He didn't make it to New Hampshire. Right. So they hate him. And Jeff Rowe at one time was going to be Trump's campaign manager. So I'm sure there's a little bit of tension over that. Trump still hates DeSantis, so he hates Jeff Rowe because of that as well. These stupid consultancy war. Consultancy wars are basically telling clients, if you work with Jeff Rowe, you're not getting the endorsement. Now, Jeff refutes this and some people in the White House do as well, but, you know, it's, it's caused Jeff, because his business has taken a hit to pitch new clients. That means that's more candidates in a primary field and back primary challengers, like Ken Paxton, the Attorney General from Texas who has like a truckload of scandals. The guy was under indictment for security fraud since 2000. He was impeached his wife is suing him on biblical terms, which I love that phrase. And so because Jeff Rowe, as he tries to like, keep his business intact, is going after all of these primary challenges, that's just going to make it cost more money for the Republicans to keep seats. Like, it would be pretty crazy. So in the polls that the Senate Leadership Fund has done, it shows that Paxton, at least the one from back in May, was beating Cornyn by 16 points. Now after Cornyn spent some money, it's like eight points. But he loses to a generic Democrat like Colin Allred or James Talarico who.

[Reed Galen]

Raised like 6 million bucks in like three weeks.

[Tara Palmeri]

Yeah. And you know, Texas is a defense, is an expensive seat to defend. It can cost 100 million doll more because of the, the media markets there. So it's all to say that they are sort of eating their own and it could cost them a ton of money, which I'm sure everyone who does not want them to win AC Is enjoying in the.

[Reed Galen]

Well, let's be clear, like, Jeff is not a sympathetic character. Like, this is. This is a guy who once drafted a letter in Missouri about a May. About a Missouri legislative candidate potentially being a homosexual that was so damaging to the man, he killed himself.

[Tara Palmeri]

Right.

[Reed Galen]

So, like, this is not a good guy.

[Tara Palmeri]

Yeah.

[Reed Galen]

So, like, if, let me just say this, I'm going to, I'm going to put the. This is not Tara's opinion. This is only Reid's opinion. If Jeff Rowe's business goes out of business, I am totally okay with that. And if it costs the Trump people millions of dollars while it happens, even better.

[Tara Palmeri]

Well, I was going to say you should like this story. This is. I do.

[Reed Galen]

Because they're all fucking horrible people. Like, I hope they all tear one another to shreds in the next nine months in primaries. I hope they spend outrageous amounts of money. In fact, one of the reasons I wanted to talk about this is because of who in the donor community too, has gotten on board with Trump? So let's, let's bring this all together. So Thomas Massie, who is probably the most sort of true blue MAGA member of Congress from Kentucky. Right. This is a guy who's been a thorn in the side of Johnson and of Trump both on the budget issues and on, on, on Epstein issues. So this came out in July, but there's a super PAC that's going after Thomas Massie in Kentucky. And the three top donors are Paul Singer. Remember, Paul Singer was the guy who was lauded by everybody for funding the pro gay marriage Stuff as a Republican for years, right? John Paulson, who famously made a gajillion freaking dollars shorting the American housing market, and Miriam Adelson, right? Like, so, like, guys, money trumps all. Like, let's be curious. Like, there is no morality in any of this stuff.

[Tara Palmeri]

No. Right. I don't think. I don't think that was the point. They're all just trying to make money, everyone. And when you have the power, when you're in the White House, you're. You're gonna be all the firms associated with you, like Chris Las Avita's firm. Like, they're gonna make more money. They're gonna sell their services to every dirty freaking country around and make millions and millions of dollars. And it's the swamp. Like, that's what I'm explaining is what. How the swamp works. This is, you know, this is how the swamp works. This is how.

[Reed Galen]

Right.

[Tara Palmeri]

Not many people are.

[Reed Galen]

No, look, this is. Imperial cities are like, have, like, been like this throughout history, right? Money and power trade one another and they trade up and up and up and up and up, right? And then as soon as the power is gone, right? And people think that they need to find a new benefactor or a new place to make money, they'll go there, right? So it's. You know, to me, it's. You know, I sound so naive and maybe. Maybe it's the last sliver of idealism I have, Tara, but, like, it's the thing that I was thinking about this morning, about something else is just the freaking cynicism, right? Like, there, no one in any of this has any. Any thought for a moment about whether or not, like, the country matters, whether or not, you know, history matters, whether or not decency matters. And the people who come last of all, obviously, are the American people.

[Tara Palmeri]

Yeah. I mean, of course, I don't know if they tell them that themselves that at night, but, you know, I hope.

[Reed Galen]

They'Re tortured by those demons like in Ghost. Remember those things that come out of the sewer? I hope those people come after them and night, trying to sleep. My guess is they've rationalized themselves within, you know. You know, they've rationalized themselves so much that they don't think about that stuff anymore. They. They've. They've made their. They've. Look, even my friends who are consultancy.

[Tara Palmeri]

Hijinks too, on the left, I don't think it's just.

[Michael Cohen]

Oh, no.

[Reed Galen]

Oh, listen, believe. Oh, yeah. I'm not. I was not. I. Yeah, please believe me. The cynicism is a. Is by Far bipartisan. It is not. It is not a uni Party issue. It is bipartisan. I mean, even look in, you know what? I was fat. I haven't read Vice President Harris's book. But what I thought was fascinating in all of the things I've seen about it, Tara, is the consultants don't get mentioned once, near as I can tell.

[Tara Palmeri]

Yeah.

[Reed Galen]

The people who made decisions tactical and strategic to spend several billion dollars, not one word about them anywhere.

[Tara Palmeri]

Right. Yeah.

[Reed Galen]

Yeah.

[Tara Palmeri]

Well, she might need them again if she runs.

[Reed Galen]

And what does that say? What does that say?

[Tara Palmeri]

Well, the book is a platform to run again. But, you know, I just had James Carville on my show, and he had a lot of choice words for Kamala Harris. He felt like she was complaining a lot in the book where he felt like she was handed basically everything and that, you know, there was that. That her. This book is a bit of a grievance tour.

[Reed Galen]

Well, I think that Americans, you know, Americans love as, you know, love to tear down their idols, but the thing they love more than tearing down their idols is redemption. Americans love a redemption story, but they want to see some level of. With let me put Trump as the notable example of this. They. They are exception to this, I should say. They like to see a little bit of contrition in the process. Right. They like to see a little reflection to say, yeah, like, I didn't understand where the country was. I didn't understand what my role was. If I truly cared about these things and my name was on the ballot, I should have had the fortitude to say, I'm going to be the leader of the free world. This is where I belong. And so, yeah, I think you're right. And unfortunately for the vice president, a lot of her opponents, like Carville, I don't know if he's an opponent, but a consultant or a commentator will jump on that, and it will dog her for the next couple of years until the next primary season starts. So. All right, Tara, thank you.

[Tara Palmeri]

I don't think that's the thing that's gonna dog her. I think the thing that dogs you is when you lose, the stink of loss is a hard one to. To. To shower off.

[Reed Galen]

Yeah. Right. Oh, no. Yes. I mean, I. I think that. Yeah, I agree with you. Yeah.

[Tara Palmeri]

And I think her book 107 Days is about. Listen, it wasn't my fault. I had 107 days. I was stuck with Biden's mess, yada, yada, yada.

[Reed Galen]

Right.

[Tara Palmeri]

And the way they treated me was like crap, which is True, they didn't treat her well at all, but.

[Reed Galen]

But that's also not unusual for vice presidents.

[Tara Palmeri]

Yeah.

[Reed Galen]

I mean, think about. I'll leave you with this story. Well, two stories I've heard. One is when Ronald Reagan was leaving Office and George H.W. bush was about to be inaugurated, the Reagan people would not allow the gates to the White House to be open until the exact second they were required to. That's how much disdain they held for George H.W. bush, even as president elect. They weren't going to do any of that. Then I heard a story, which might be apocryphal, that when Clinton was taking office, Hillary had claimed the traditional vice president's office in the West Wing as her own. And Al Gore, not surprisingly, not okay with this, and said, I'm not going to the Capitol until I get my office back. And finally, Hillary relented and Gore got his office back. But like vice presidents, even the first vice president we ever had, John Adams, said it was the. It is the worst job that humanity has ever created. So, yes, I have no doubt they treated her badly. But also.

[Tara Palmeri]

No, it's bullshit. There are a lot of worse jobs than being vice president. I'm pretty sure if you do your tour, Vice president, president, you can write a book, make a few million dollars on the speaking tour. Once it went.

[Reed Galen]

No, listen, listen, I agree. I mean, I, you know, you get a helicopter, you get a nice house.

[Tara Palmeri]

Yeah.

[Reed Galen]

Motorcade, you get an airplane. It's. It's a pretty good gig. Right. But again.

[Tara Palmeri]

And it's public service. Does anyone forget about that? Sorry, you didn't get to do the. You didn't get to the glory jobs, but you got the southern border, But.

[Reed Galen]

Which was. Which was a mess she was not going to have anything to do with. Right. Because they didn't want to deal with it either, so they gave it to her. Again, the vice president has two jobs, Right. Break ties in the Senate when there is one, and wait around for somebody to die. Those are the only two jobs listed in the ceremonial duties.

[Tara Palmeri]

Ceremonial duties, yeah. But again, Pence was constantly traveling for Trump. He hated traveling, so he just sent pets and all those things.

[Reed Galen]

And Vance is, you know, and Vance is. Is using. Making the most of it. Right. In his time, he's doing everything he can podcast. All right, well, speaking of podcasts. So, Tara, tell everybody where we can find you before I let you go. Thank you so much for giving me so much.

[Tara Palmeri]

Yeah, no, no, it's great. You can find me at the Red Letter, obviously. Right. Here. If you subscribe, that would be really helpful for me and my mission as an independent journalist. Do a lot of investigations. I've been following the Epstein story very closely, but I also give you the inside story on what's going on inside the swamp. Also, you can Find me on YouTube, the Tara Palmeri show, where I put up a lot of my. Where I do a show almost every single day. And I'm on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Tara Palmeri Show. You can find me everywhere. Thanks, guys. All right.

[Reed Galen]

Yeah. Hey, listen, go subscribe, everybody. Come on, Hit. Hit the button. Hit the button. Somebody told me this thing right here at the top. If you click on that, you can subscribe to Tara right from there. All right, as always, gang, thank you. Can find me here on substack at the Home Front. Also the Homefront podcast, wherever you want to find it. Thanks, everybody for joining me. Tara, have a great day.

[Tara Palmeri]

Yep, you too. Thanks, Reid. This is great.

[Reed Galen]

And everybody else, we'll see you next time.

[Tara Palmeri]

Okay, Cheers.

[Reed Galen]

Bye.

[Tara Palmeri]

That was another episode of the Tara Palmeri Show. Thank you again for tuning in. I am so grateful to all of you. We hit a major milestone on YouTube. I wait to can't keep bringing it up, but we hit a hundred thousand subscribers. Thank you all for that. We're soon to hit 30,000 subscribers at the red letter. That's my newsletter where you can get my exclusive reporting straight to your inbox. It's a way to support my independent journalism by becoming a paid subscriber. You can find my work@tara palmeri.com. that's T A R A P A L-M-E-R-I.com. i want to thank my producer, Eric Abenate. I want to thank Adam Stewart, who does my graphics and thumbnails, and Abby Baker, who, who handles the research. I'll be back again this week.