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- [00:01]
George Conway
You know that thing where you get an amazing pair of shoes at a
- [00:04]
Tara Palmeri
really great price and want to tell everyone about it?
- [00:07]
George Conway
Yeah.
- [00:07]
Tara Palmeri
So do we here at Designer Shoe Warehouse. We'll give you something to brag about, like the latest styles from brands you love or the trends everyone's obsessing over or shoes that make you feel like, well, you. So go ahead, show off a little. Buying shoes that get you at prices
- [00:23]
George Conway
that get your budget.
- [00:25]
Tara Palmeri
Head to your DSW store or dsw.com today. DSW. Let us surprise you Think, does America have the appetite for a third impeachment that doesn't have any teeth?
- [00:34]
George Conway
Look, I mean, I think we don't have a choice. Look, I think that the things are going to get worse over the next few months because Trump doesn't isn't going to do anything to make them better. He's incapable of it. And I do think we're going to have also a Democratic Senate. And I don't know whether it'll be 52, 53, 54, maybe even more. And that when you have control of the Senate in that way, you can set the rules. And the rules this time should be, should provide for a real trial.
- [01:12]
Tara Palmeri
Welcome to the Tara Palmieri Show. You know him, George Conway, once a Republican who cried tears of joy when President Trump won in 2016. Of course, then he was Kellyanne Conway's husband. Now he's her ex. Well, he wants to use his prosecutorial skills, the ones he honed in an effort to impeach Bill Clinton in the 1990s to try to impeach President Trump. That's right, the former Federalist Society card carrier who just became a Democrat in December. He is running in the highly competitive New York 12 congressional race. It spans most of Manhattan. And he believes that most Americans, including Trump's own voters, have had it with Trump. And that's why it's his moral and civic duty to impeach him. But haven't we been down this road before? This would be the third impeachment attempt. Plus, doesn't it give Trump some more ammo to run on? They're going to impeach me again. Well, we get into all of this and more and the Kennedy that he's running against, Jack Schlossberg, who's gotten a boost from FX's love story about his deceased uncle, Uncle JFK Jr. Take a listen to this episode. It is an interesting one. And of course, I want to hear your thoughts in the comments section. But first, hit that subscribe button. And here is a Moment from our sponsors. Picking the right medical coverage is stressful. So if you or someone you love is on Medicare, you really need to pay attention here because it's confusing at times and I actually think it's on purpose. Well, Chapter has unbiased independent Medicare advisors that are salary based. They're not looking to waste your time. In fact, they can scan through tons of plans in under 20 minutes and they'll tell you if the one you have is the right one or if you can save money as much as eleven hundred dollars. That's the average that people save. And the best part is it's totally free. It's a great way to find a plan that fits your needs. So for free and unbiased Medicare help, dial 305-515-5237 to speak with my trusted partner, Chapter One or go to ask chapter.orgtara. guys, thank you for coming back to the show. We got George Conway on the line after a number of misfires, trying to send him invites on substack, but here he is in his Chelsea apartment. Is that right?
- [03:35]
George Conway
No, I'm at my girlfriend's apartment on Central Park West. So that's Columbus Circle in the background, but Nice. Yeah, I mean, I. It's a different view. Sometimes I do podcasts from there and sometimes I do podcasts from here. So.
- [03:50]
Tara Palmeri
Love it. Love it. In the heart of New York City. Thanks for coming on the show to talk about your congressional race and your campaign. So I. Yeah, it's great to have you. I have always thought that you would be an excellent congressional candidate and I thought you'd be a great congressman because, um, you know, we need good lawyers on the Hill. Right. We need people who.
- [04:16]
George Conway
Now more than ever. Now more than ever.
- [04:18]
Tara Palmeri
Exactly. And also just people who can cross examine and do it properly at this time. And I get really frustrated sometimes when I'm watching these hearings.
- [04:28]
George Conway
Yeah.
- [04:29]
Tara Palmeri
Because, yeah, they have. Sometimes they do their like. I don't know, it seems like everything is for a viral moment, but we don't actually get down to the bottom of anything. Right.
- [04:39]
George Conway
And it's possible to have a viral moment. Cross examining. It just takes a little buildup.
- [04:44]
Tara Palmeri
Right.
- [04:44]
George Conway
Yeah. And the other problem with congressional hearings, at least in the House, has always been the five minute rule where you basically only get five minutes to do something. And so they basically occupy the five minutes by giving speeches. Not sure what can be done about that because it's just habitual. But. Yeah, that's. But I do think we need more people who are used to Questioning witnesses in a way that pins them down or at least highlights the fact that they're not answering the questions. I mean, speeches don't do that. I mean, one of the things you learn as a litigator is that the longer you talk, the more the witness can go off in some other direction. It's also true with, I'm sure, journalistic interviews. If you ask a question that's not precise or kind of is open ended, you're going to get an open ended answer, which may be something you want. Sometimes when you just want to bring out something that they're, that your interviewee will expound on. But if you're trying to pin them down on yes or no, did you do X? Is X true? Did you, you know, have, did, didn't you say X? You have to ask that question in the most precise terms and then ask it again until they, until they answer or until it becomes clear that for some reason they don't want to answer, which gives you the answer you want.
- [06:02]
Tara Palmeri
Actually, yeah, it was true and I feel like we needed that last week or the week before that with Epstein's lawyers, Richard Kahn and Darren Indyke, when they said they, they said that they did pay a settlement to Jane Doe, who accused both Jeffrey Epstein and President Trump of rape. And now I feel like they didn't get a, I mean, can the lawyers retract this? Should they be dragging them back to the House Oversight Committee? Can they do that at this point? Like, what could they have done better to make sure that they.
- [06:37]
George Conway
I don't know. I, I confess, I, I guess I was distracted by events in the Middle east and from, from the Epstein matter, which.
- [06:46]
Tara Palmeri
That's what they want. That's what they want.
- [06:48]
George Conway
I know what they want. I didn't really see that episode. So I, I can't really, I mean, I could just make something up, but I'm not going to do that. I'm not that kind of guy. Yeah, I, I, you know, I mean, you know, they, they can, if there's some, if, look, they can certainly bring somebody back if they think that there's another question to be asked. And, and also they can, you know, they can ask more for more documents or something like that, but it should be pretty clear whether or not they paid this woman or not, because they'd have to be a paper trail on it. And so, I mean, I don't, can't imagine if you're paying somebody in a settlement, it's got to be documented. And so you certainly want to document it, because one side gets a release from future assertions for damages and the other side gets money. And, you know, nobody does cash these days because that would be probably not, that would be questionable. So there's got to be a paper trail. And so I think that if I were an investigator for the House committee and they may have these documents already, I would absolutely be looking for the paper trail to figure out the circumstances under which this money was paid.
- [07:58]
Tara Palmeri
And that's the only way to really nail it down, right? Yeah, yeah. Will you pursue the Epstein case further if you're elected?
- [08:05]
George Conway
Absolutely, 100%. You know, I mean, I don't. Who knows what's going to be front and center in January of 2027 because hopefully there will be more steps investigating of investigation and more evidence coming out and more revelations between now and January. But, you know, certainly that investigation is worth pursuing not just because of Trump, but because of what it, you know, the damage it has done to so many women. And because it really says something about our society that this was able to be able to happen for so long and that there was, that it was covered up for so long and that the Justice Department was part of the COVID up. And that is another aspect of it too is like, you know, a lot of what has happened in the Trump administration clearly has been driven by this scandal, and that deserves to be investigated, too. What was going on at the Justice Department at various points in time, both when the initial promises were made to produce the materials and then the 180 was taken, what did they tell Trump? What did they find? And also what have they withheld? It's not, you know, they have, I mean, it's, I can't imagine it's ever going to be clear that they produced everything until somebody else gets in there and gets physical access to the materials, because they just have no credibility. And that's what, that's, that's really something that needs to be investigated. How this was handled, particularly in light of the fact that there was a federal statute enacted that required the production of these materials and they still didn't produce them. So, you know, I mean, I understand it was a big, it was a huge task to produce that amount of material in that short a period of time. But they backed themselves up into forcing Congress, including the Republicans, to enact a statute that put that deadline on them. And the President of the United States signed it because he had no choice. The veto would have overridden him. And so they, they bought that. They paid for that scandal by their incompetence and their malfeasance. And Donald Trump deserves everything he's going to get for that as well as the people who surrounded him and have helped him cover this up. And we need to know more about what the Deputy Attorney General was doing in conducting that interview of Ghislaine Maxwell and then sending Ghislaine Maxwell to a Kushier facility. And that that stinks to high heaven. We don't, we don't know what the, we don't know what the internal communications were about that he needs to be, we need to see the documents, the emails, the communications with Ghislaine Maxwell's lawyers, the communications with, within the Bureau, with the Bureau of Prisons as to what the rationale was and who said what and who was told about that that needs to be fully investigated. I mean the number, I mean this is the most corrupt administration in American history in so many ways. I mean you cannot, it is impossible to count the number of issues that have been raised by everything from the handling of the 747 to the bombing of the people in the Caribbean to the, to the run up to this war, to the Epstein files, to yeah, is the trading, the trading in advance of his announcements regarding the Iran war. You just can go on and on. You could talk for, probably list the number of things that need to be investigated for a couple of hours and not get it all straight. And the problem is we're never going to be able to, we have to pick our, I mean, I think Congress isn't going to be able to do all of that. I think there probably needs to be some investigative commission at some time in the future really to go back through this era and document it to show that we can show to the American public in the world that we are capable of self correction and make a historical record much in the way that when bad regimes fall throughout the world. You get the Stasi files and we got the files, some of the files left after the fall of Nazi Germany. There's just a lot here that has gone on and what we see as being corrupt and dangerous and illegal and, and we don't know that we're just skimming the surface. We just see the tip of the iceberg above the ocean and there's a lot underneath there that we don't know and it's going to take years and somebody has to do that. But also at the same time, it can't all be Congress except after, after the investigations and impeachment and some of the corrective legislation is done There still needs to be an ongoing historical analysis and investigation and documentation of everything that happened here. And so I think that's part, part of what I would push for if elected was, first of all, we have to deal with what's happening now and deal with the corruption now and remove impeach and remove corrupt officials who are committing high crimes and misdemeanors, including the president. And the second is to make sure it doesn't happen again by enacting safeguards about how Justice Department functions and everything.
- [13:34]
Tara Palmeri
But impeachment hasn't really worked out in
- [13:37]
George Conway
the past and it hasn't. But if this we have reached a new stage here. I mean, we're dealing with now like a hundred, with like 100 Ukraine scandals. We're dealing with so many. It's so much worse now than each the situation in 2020 and 2021. If we can't exercise the duty and power that Congress has been given by the framers to remove this, the most corrupt administration in American history, the most vile administration, the most the president who has most violated his oath and violated the law and we don't have a constitution. And you know, just because it hasn't worked in the past also doesn't mean it's not going to work now because we are starting to see cracks. Even Republicans have had enough. And it may well be that it's something like gas prices that drive Republicans say Bosta, but so be it. We can't give up on this. We can't last, to my mind, 34 more months of what we've had happen over the last 14. He's only going to get worse. And yet basically started a war that could tank the global economy without any end in sight and without any plan and without an exit strategy is just, you know, that's he's going to do something else next to destroy the last thing he created. And we can't survive this.
- [15:16]
Tara Palmeri
I don't think I just want to get down to like brass knuckles, you know, you can impeach in the House with a simple majority, right? But in the Senate for the trial, you need 2/3 vote to convict. And I don't think you're gonna get that in the Senate.
- [15:31]
George Conway
I mean, well, here's the way I look at it.
- [15:34]
Tara Palmeri
And that's why I think does America have the appetite for a third impeachment that doesn't have any teeth?
- [15:39]
George Conway
Look, I mean, I think we don't have a choice. Look, I think that the things are gonna get worse over the next few months because Trump doesn't. Isn't going to do anything to make them better. He's incapable of it. And I do think we're going to have also a Democratic Senate. And I don't know whether it'll be 52, 53, 54, maybe even more. And when you have control of the Senate in that way, you can set the rules. And the rules this time should provide for a real trial, not these show arguments, these statements on the floor by impeachment managers where they're just politicians giving speeches, but where you put on live witnesses and you can show that they're lying, and you can show how they're being deceptive, and they have to answer the questions, and the Chief justice of the United States will direct them to answer questions. A trial, a real trial. That's what the framers of the Constitution meant. And that will be, I think, an education for the American people, who will be suffering from all of the deleterious effects of Trump's chaotic policies and his psychotic policies. Frankly, he's now just out of his mind. And at that point, the trial will show people that this is not the way government is supposed to operate. This is corrupt. They're lying. And a good trial presentation is going to basically, I think, flip enough Republicans who will be exhausted by this and who want to rescue their party if
- [17:17]
Tara Palmeri
it can be, and then give him JD Vance.
- [17:20]
George Conway
But JD Vance. But look, I mean, JD Vance is, you know, subject to impeachable offense. He may be impeached, too, and removed. That's also possible, but also it will have, even if he is not, it will have a killing or an effect on everybody else who comes after that. You can't do this. You have to obey the law, you have to obey the Constitution, you have to obey your duties and your oath of office. And we need to reassert those standards that we used to accept and take for granted. And if we don't do that, there's no one else to do it. If Congress can't do it, nobody can. And it means the American people will not have the government that they are entitled to under the Constitution of the ih, which is intended structurally, to have this as the remedy for a corrupt administration.
- [18:18]
Tara Palmeri
Yeah, I. I do wonder, you know, as you said to the New York Times, that you wanted to be Jamie Raskin's wingman who led the last impeachment. Are you concerned that you're giving Trump a message that activates his base when he's not on the ballot? They're going to impeach me they're going to impeach me. Get off the couch. And because as we know, midterms are turnout elections. But if the MAGA base believes that he's going to be impeached, based on what you're saying right now, and you seem to be in contact with Jamie Raskin, are you concerned that you're giving him.
- [18:55]
George Conway
No, I'm not. And again, I don't think, you know, I know there's always a political element to everything, but I view this as a moral issue and a question of legal duty, not just of members of Congress who take an oath to the Constitution and have an oath, who are bound to enforce Article 1 of the Constitution, which provides for their power to impeach and to remove public officials under Article 2. That's a moral obligation, a legal obligation, a constitutional obligation. And for those of us who are not in Congress, it's our civic obligation to encourage Congress to do that and to urge Congress to, you know, follow its duty in that regard. And again, I think that I do strongly believe that people will have had enough. I think people will have had enough people who are supporting Trump now. There are fewer of them now. I mean, I. The perfect example was this interview that I think Jonathan Allen did of the. I don't know, it went viral. Of a woman in central Pennsylvania at a gas station.
- [20:12]
Tara Palmeri
Yeah, I remember that.
- [20:13]
George Conway
Pissed off at what she was paying in gas prices. And she basically, yeah, I'm an idiot for voting for Trump. He's a pos, basically. And I think there are enough of those people where, you know, yeah, you can activate the base, but the vase is smaller. And the middle of the country, you look at the. Look at what he has lost among independents. Independents are just hate him now. He has lost the temporary uptick in his. In Hispanic support that he had over the last few years. It's just basically. Absolutely. Hispanic support has dropped.
- [20:49]
Tara Palmeri
Yeah. To 26% approval, really low down from like 50.
- [20:54]
George Conway
People realize that they've been duped, that they were lied to, and that makes people mad. Now, what we've seen over the last few years with Trump is that people basically have done when they're being told bad things about Trump, that they have, that they have been duped. They've been doing this. But you can only do that for so long when you're going to the gas pumps and now they're, you know, it's $4 a gallon and soon might be 5, 6 or 7 and everything. The price of everything is going up and people, you know, are being sent to the Middle east and there's no plan and there's no explanation and there's no rhyme or reason to what he's doing. And so I really think that in order to get to where we need to go, which is to remove this president, and I don't see how we can last, as I said, 34 months with this. We have to start talking about this now. And not being, you know, not. There's this kind of, this concept in psychology called learned helplessness where you, you know, you are pressing the button for the re. The Pavlovian reward and you don't get it and you kind of the subject, whether it be a rat or a human being gets depressed and stops wanting to, wanting to play. It's like we can't be that rat or that person. We need, we need to look and say we're in a totally new environment, a totally new ballgame and we cannot give up. If we're giving up, we're giving up on our republic and we're giving up on our freedom and we're giving up on our well being. And I just think we too many politicians are doing that. There are so many. And I don't mean that to criticize
- [22:38]
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- [23:17]
Tara Palmeri
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- [24:23]
George Conway
tremendous fighters in the Democratic Party who I want to join forces with, as I've mentioned, Jamie Raskin and others. We have to fight. This is for her. This is fighting for our survival. And we have to give it our best shot.
- [24:37]
Tara Palmeri
Robert Schmidt, who is following us right now on the show, he says everyone who has taken a flight in last in the last week will never vote for Trump again. I think those are pretty true words. So thank you for adding that to the conversation, Robert. He has certainly ridden the highs of a good economy, and I think that was partially why he was reelected.
- [24:58]
George Conway
Yes, ma'. Am.
- [24:58]
Tara Palmeri
But I want to talk about actually getting you into Congress, getting you elected. Your opponent looks a lot like John F. Kennedy, Jr. And he's got the Kennedy machine behind him. And Hollywood Buzz with Love Story out on Hulu, and everyone is watching it when it's all over my Instagram feed. How do you break through that?
- [25:21]
George Conway
Look, I mean, I, I break through it because, look, I mean, there are two people in the race who have name recognition, people who they know. They know Jack because he's colorful and he has a social media presence and he's a Kennedy. And they know me because I've been banging this drum about Trump for a number of years. And, you know, I get that he's been in the race longer and he has the advantage of being a Kennedy. But at the end of the day, people are gonna, I think people are gonna take a good, hard look at both of us, and they're gonna make a judgment as to who has the experience at this point and to help the most. And that's not a diss on Jack. I like Jack personally. I've met him at a couple of forums, and I admire his spunk, I admire his courage, and I admire his youthful exuberance. And I think he's got a tremendous future ahead of me. And if he wins, then so be it. I'm going to support him every step of the way. But I do think, you know, I do think it's going to be a, you know, I do think it's, I mean, I mean, the polls that we have show a second to him. I think people are going to look at us, particularly since we are the two outsiders, if you will, and not part of the inside Democratic machine. And I think people, people are looking for something different and that's why they're going to take a look at Jack and they're going to take a look at me and we'll see how it goes. And, you know, I'm not, I'm certainly not going to I respect Jack. I'm a big fan of Caroline Kennedy's.
- [26:53]
Tara Palmeri
Well, I wouldn't exactly call you outsiders. He did get the endorsement of Nancy Pelosi. Do you think that there's still this pull toward political dynasties in the party?
- [27:03]
George Conway
You know, I, yes and no. I mean, I think in politics there are dynasties. On the other hand, the Democratic Party does best historically, and this is something, you know, I've watched this for 62 years as a student of politics, when they pick, when they go to something new and different, and that was Jack Kennedy. Jack Kennedy wasn't a dynasty. He started a dynasty, but he wasn't a dynasty. What made him special was that he was a fresh face with a lot of energy and a lot of gumption. And that was also Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton and Barack Obama. So, yeah, I mean, there are dynasties, but there's also a need to kind of mix it up and bring new blood into the system. And I think the Democratic Party is at its best when it is doing that. And one of the things that's great about the Democratic Party generally is, is it's this incredibly deep bench of very, very, very talented people, any of whom, I think, for example, if you were talking about the presidential race, I mean, you know, the Abigail Spamberger Pritzker Newsom, there's some. Mark Kelly, I don't think that dynasties are the do all and end all of a healthy political party. I think they may be part of it, but I do think that, you know, there is just so people want choices and they want choices and they don't want to have the same old faces again and again. And they don't want their politics to be static because when it's static, then it becomes, you know, it lacks energy and we need continual change to get better.
- [28:56]
Tara Palmeri
Well, Jack Kennedy was a decorated World War II veteran and had a father who was quite a political operator. And Josh Jack Schlossberg excuse me. He is a social media star, you could say a tick tock star. So this is obviously very different. I don't know that he would necessarily be a star if he didn't have that name behind him. So is this a race about substance versus brand for you?
- [29:27]
George Conway
Look, I, I mean I'm going to worry about my substance. That's, that's what I'm going to worry about. And you know, I, I, I think J, Jack is, is, I think he's very well meaning and I think he does want to shake things up and, and bring change. And I think he, he wants to bring new energy to Congress. And I, you know, I'm okay with that, but I just, you know, I think I'm going to worry about what I'm telling the people of New York, New York's 12th congressional district. I'm not, you know, obviously he has his message and he's going to, you know, he is fully capable of getting it across to voters. I'm sure he'll do very well. And you know, I look forward to, you know, I look forward to running this race.
- [30:16]
Tara Palmeri
Yeah, he's at, he's at 25% according to your poll. And you're at 16%.
- [30:20]
George Conway
Yeah, but there's, and, and, and, and Mr. Undecided. Ms. Undecided is 33. So we all, we all have to catch up to the, to, to, to, to Captain Undecided.
- [30:30]
Tara Palmeri
Yeah. Knock on those doors. But we do know that there is only, of your district, only one out of every seven people is a Republican. I want to talk to you about reinventing your own brand for Democratic voters. And because obviously you are associated with the Federalist Society, you are part of the team that basically propelled the Lewinsky scandal. A lot of people are suspicious. I mean, should they be skeptical? You were, you were celebrating when President Trump won. Obviously you have spent a long time since then, since 2018, you broke from him and you have been working on your anti Trump campaign efforts. But you did just become a Democrat in December. Before that you were an independent.
- [31:16]
George Conway
So I was an independent since 2018 when I became, yeah, when I became completely disillusioned with the direction of the party, of the Republican Party. That had really become a cult. And I really, you know, seeing that debacle that first year made me think about, well, why am I a Republican? I'm a Republican because that's what I was in 1980 and what's happened since then and where are we now? And you kind of develop your identity when you're young, and it may fit you. The labels that you apply to yourself may fit you then. But when you take a step back, which Trumpism forced me to do, to think about, well, what are my values? What do I believe in? The rule of law? I. I believe in lim. I do believe in limited government because, you know, because I, I was always fearful as, as classical liberals, you know, classical liberals who are conservatives. And to use the classical liberal phrase, though, is. Is really what is a philosophical term, you know, out of fear that the powerful government could be abused by bad people. And here we are. And the things that the Republican Party, I thought stood for, work for free markets and free trade and free speech, and all of these things have been just trodden upon by modern Republicanism, which is just totally antithetical to what people thought Republicanism used to be or conservatism. And I mean, look at what's going on here. These tariffs, right? This is the biggest tax increase in American history. Owning 10% of intel, making decisions about who owns media corporations, the government interfering in that, as opposed to. As opposed to letting the Delaware courts, for example, do it. It used to be a takeover word, and that's how it always used to happen. And look at him, eating whatever he wants, never gaining a pound. Well, I'm stuck with the boring special and can't lose an ounce. How's your lunch, man? Amazing. Yours? So good. Oh, I'm so happy for you. Cool, buddy.
- [33:29]
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- [33:35]
George Conway
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- [33:39]
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- [33:45]
George Conway
Just running roughshod over. Over individual rights, including over you know, murdering a gun owner on the streets in Minneapolis. Alex Preddy. I mean, this is just. This isn't. This isn't conservatism. It isn't what I signed up for when I thought I was, you know, when I, When I. After, you know, being a Scoop Jackson Democrat in high school, I became a kind of a Reagan Republican after Reagan won. This is not. Ronald Reagan would be rolling his grave at this. And, you know, he used to work with Tip o' Neill very closely, and they got things done. And here we have a situation where in a lot of ways, the conservative party today is the Democratic Party. And I mean that in this classic conservative sense of we. Of gradual managing change. You have to manage change. You can't do Radical change. You don't want to upset the apple cart too much. You don't want to destroy institutions that people rely on and that do people good. And what you have with the current Republican Party and with Trumpism is they want to destroy everything nihilistically, maybe that you, there's some part of the government or some program that you might not have done done, you might haven't voted for back in the day, or you might have done differently, or you might want to reform, but that doesn't mean you take a sledgehammer to it. That's not conservative, that's not conserving, and that's, it's completely antithetical to the way I look at how you have to manage change and manage government and deal with societal changes. And frankly, the only sensible people about this now are Democrats who want to make things better and work on improving things at least incrementally and not basically just trashing everything like the Republicans are. So I think the modern conservatives, frankly, are the Democrats.
- [35:42]
Tara Palmeri
Could you ever see yourself voting with Republicans like Fetterman?
- [35:47]
George Conway
I mean, I, I, I don't, I can't explain Fetterman no more than I could explain Kyrsten Sinema or some other people. I, I can't, you know, I, I, I, I got to the point over the last few years where I, I couldn't vote for a Republican. I would not vote for Republican. And maybe, maybe if, if, you know, other than maybe a Adam Kinziger or a, or a.
- [36:12]
Tara Palmeri
No, I mean, vote with the Republicans.
- [36:15]
George Conway
No, no, no. I mean, I don't, I mean, you have to pick an issue. I mean, I don't know what issue there would be. I mean, I mean, you must still
- [36:24]
Tara Palmeri
be a fiscal conservative at least, right?
- [36:27]
George Conway
Yeah, but the fiscal conservatives now are the Democrats. Okay? They believe they, you know, we got to pay for what we, the Democrats want to actually pay for what we spend. The Republicans, they just want to cut taxes for, you know that they just want to cut taxes without and still spend money and spend money on ice and all of that. I mean, if you look at the fiscal responsibility, you look at the growth in debt, Trump is off the charts. He's running the United States government the way he ran his businesses that he took into chapter 11. That's not fiscal. The fiscal conservatives today are the Democrats because they actually, like, they're trying to figure out how to pay for stuff here in New York. They're trying to figure out, you know, Kathy Hochul is trying to figure out how to, you know, pay for initiatives that are necessary for people in the state of New York and holding Mayor Mamdani to, you know, to say, you know, you got to get your fiscal house in order. And we, you know, we like you, you know, and we know how you want to help people with all these programs. We got to, we got to, we got to make the book balance tighter. So I, you know, my fiscal conservatism, frankly, which is historic, you know, after watching decades of Republicans cutting taxes and never really and just creating more deficits, I, you know, I, I, I, I, it doesn't appeal to me anymore.
- [37:55]
Tara Palmeri
You did call for the overturning of Roe vs Wade at one time.
- [37:58]
George Conway
Yeah. And that was. No, I never called for the overturning of it. I was critical of it. I would never have voted to overturn it in the 21st century after 50 years. I was critical of its rationale, and so was Ruth Bader Ginsburg as a legislative matter. I've always thought it was a legislative matter, and I think the court got ahead of itself by taking it out of the legislative realm. I mean, Ruth Bader Ginsburg, in her critique of Roe kind of in 1990, 91, basically said, mentioned how there was an incredible reform movement in the states New York had, New York was an example of it, and that was stopped in its tracks by a decision that then inflamed the issue because people didn't have a say. It always was a legislative issue. And today I support the Women's Health Protection act that Senator Baldwin has proposed and has sponsored in the Senate that would basically codify Roe v. Wade, because Roe v. Wade was essentially a statute. It was a carefully crafted statute of a sort that judges really were not in a position to enforce because it really was a legislative compromise. And that's exactly what we need. And I, you know, I support the legislative solution of the, of the, you know, Senate 2150, the Women's Health Protection Act.
- [39:30]
Tara Palmeri
So I'm asking you this because you did wait a long time to switch from independent to Democrat. But if a normie Republican was elected, like a George Bush Republican somehow came back, MAGA just blew up. Everyone realized it was too hardcore Right. Leaning, causing too much destruction. Would you switch back to the GOP?
- [39:51]
George Conway
I'm done switching. Okay? I'm 62 years old. The next time a Norman Republican is.
- [39:58]
Tara Palmeri
No transitioning for you.
- [40:00]
George Conway
No, no, it's, it's, it's like, you know, it's, it's, it's once is enough. And by the time that happens, I'm, I'M I'm going to have gray hair and I'll be using a cane and I will long be out of public life.
- [40:17]
Tara Palmeri
Yeah, you did say to our, our friend Steve Schmidt, if Trump wasn't president, you would not be running. You would be skiing in Park Slope.
- [40:26]
George Conway
No, Park City, not Park Slope.
- [40:28]
Tara Palmeri
Sorry, Park.
- [40:28]
George Conway
Park Slope. I could go running in Park Slope and walk.
- [40:31]
Tara Palmeri
That's your d. I'm thinking of Brooklyn, you know, I know, girl.
- [40:34]
George Conway
I mean, you know, that's a different district. That's New York 12. But is that right, New York 11? New York 10. I mean, I'm sorry, New York 10. Um, no, I would be parked in Park City. That's actually where Steve is. And.
- [40:46]
Tara Palmeri
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [40:47]
George Conway
So.
- [40:47]
Tara Palmeri
But is that true? Would you, would you, would you not be running if Trump wasn't president?
- [40:52]
George Conway
If Trump, if, if Kamala had won, I would never have thought, even thought of running for Congress. And I didn't even think. You know, my girlfriend asked me this summer when we first met whether I would ever run for public office. And I told, I basically said, fuck no. And it's something I never thought of. I never thought, I never thought of it until November when, you know, a friend of mine who a mutual friend of ours said to me, like, you should run because she was fed up with what, you know, the Democratic Senate caving on the budget impasse. And that was the first time I actually thought about it. And then I thought about, you know, I spend all this time back in New York anyway. I really should have, I should have rented an apartment a long time ago because I spent so much time coming back.
- [41:44]
Tara Palmeri
I did see you a lot at Molly John Fast parties. Molly John Fast also considered running in the race. Did you convince me not to?
- [41:52]
George Conway
No, she, she was the one who actually suggested I should think about it and. Oh, she's the one to blame.
- [41:59]
Tara Palmeri
Okay, we'll blame her.
- [42:01]
George Conway
And she was. Yeah, so.
- [42:05]
Tara Palmeri
Okay, well, I, I'm gonna ask you a news related question before we wrap up because I find this one to be quite amusing. Trump call is now calling the war a military operation. Clearly someone has told him the word war does not.
- [42:20]
George Conway
Vladimir Putin.
- [42:22]
Tara Palmeri
Yeah, exactly. But, you know, he said that he told. I believe this was at the NRCC's fundraising dinner. He didn't, he says he's not going to use the word war because he didn't get congressional approval. What do you think of that?
- [42:38]
George Conway
I mean, it's, it's, it's like pleading guilty. I mean, he's basically, he's Basically admitting that what he's doing is illegal. He would use the word war. He has used the word war because it is a war. I mean, they've hit, what, 10,000 targets with high precision bombs in just a matter of weeks? This is a war. People have been dying. There is no other word for it than war. And because it's a war, it has to have. Congress has to either declare it or authorize it with a resolution. And that's what the War Powers act provides. That's what Article 1 of the Constitution provides in giving Congress the war power. And, you know, he's basically, you know, confessing that he's not going to use the word war because people have told him that's legally problematic because, and it's clearly, you know, I mean, he has
- [43:37]
Tara Palmeri
like, I'm holding the hot potato. I didn't get to pass it off to get everyone.
- [43:41]
George Conway
It's funny. He sometimes tells the truth in a revealing way, right? Usually he's, he's, he's, he's most truthful when he's at his most malicious and malevolent. And sometimes he's also, you know, he, he also often confesses to things without even realizing because he's not very bright. And this is a perfect example. I mean, it's like, you know, you can't, you know, lawyer tells, tells client, you can't use the word X because if you use the word X, then we will lose the case. And so he goes, you know, the guy goes to his deposition, says, well, I would have used the word X, but my lawyer told me we'd lose the case if I used the word X. So I'm going to use the word Y. I mean, how stupid is that? I mean, it just shows you both stupidity and malevolence and mendacity. And that's, that's Donald Trump in a nutshell.
- [44:38]
Tara Palmeri
I like to end with a comment from our insightful audience. So this is from Tess Traylor. She says, quote, it appears he's a conservative looking for a label that fits what he believes in his ethics. Being able to shift is when one's reality changes. It's indicative of a person with insight.
- [44:58]
Audience Comment Reader
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- [46:15]
Tara Palmeri
What do you think?
- [46:17]
George Conway
Yeah, I think that's true. I mean, and I'm a conservative in the sense that I want to make things better without, you know, I want to conserve things. I want to conserve our democracy. I want to conserve the rule of law. I want to conserve our freedoms. I want to conserve the institutions that serve people well but could serve people better by, by reform. And as I say, the Conservative party now is the Democratic Party in that sense.
- [46:47]
Tara Palmeri
Got it. All right. Well George, thank you so much for figuring it out. I'm kidding. I'm getting on the show.
- [46:54]
George Conway
I appreciate it.
- [46:56]
Tara Palmeri
I'm glad to have you on the show. We'll, we'll stay tuned to your primary and, and see what happens. And if you are in Congress, it'll be fun to see you at the stand and, and really and using those skills that you've been honing over decades as a lawyer.
- [47:14]
George Conway
Appreciate that. Thank you. Tara.
- [47:17]
Tara Palmeri
That was another episode of the Tara Palmeri Show. Thanks so much for tuning in. I hope you enjoyed it. Please follow Share Subscribe Leave a Comment I want to hear from you. This is a community after all. I want to thank my producer on this, Mia Kasarik. I want to thank Abby Baker who booked, produced, helped me with everything, research and does the social media. I want to thank Adam Stewart on the graphics and Dan Rosen, my manager. As always, you can support my independent journalism by going to tarapalm.com and by becoming a paid subscriber so that you can get my exclusive reporting straight to your inbox. See you again soon.