← The Tara Palmeri Show
Loading summary
Transcript90 lines
- [00:00]
Progressive Insurance Announcer
This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever think about switching insurance companies to see if you could save some cash? Progressive makes it easy to see if you could save when you bundle your home and auto policies. Try it@progressive.com Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states.
- [00:27]
Tara Palmieri
Welcome back to the Tara Palmieri Show. Today's episode is a powerful one. My guest is News Nation anchor Leland Vitter, who opens up about something most people never knew about him. He was diagnosed with severe autism as a child. In his new book, Born Lucky, Leland tells the raw and heart wrenching story of what it took for him and his family to overcome the bullying, the heartbreak and the endless obstacles that come with this diagnosis. This isn't a story about celebrity or television success. It's a story about survival, about what it takes to beat the odds when the world tells you that you won't make it. But Born Lucky isn't just personal. It lands right in the middle of today's political firestorm around autism. With public officials reviving questionable claims about what causes it, Leland has a surprising take on all of it, one that is bound to challenge assumptions on both sides. This conversation is raw, deeply human, and at times, gut wrenching. It's a reminder that behind every headline about autism there are real people and real families fighting to be understood. So stay tuned. This is one you don't want to miss. Leland, thanks so much for joining the show. It's cool to have you on my show. Thanks to you. Have me on your show from time to time on News Nation, which everyone should check out. Leland is a great anchor on, on a very, I think, balanced news network, which is really cool to see. He's got a new book out, Born Lucky, but you should all run out and grab it. I just started reading the first few pages. I gotta say, I had tears in my eyes as I started reading it. It debuted at number four on the New York Times bestseller list. I think is a testament to this beautiful story about autism, which, you know, it's amazing to me that you have overcome autism and you ended up in the communications field. It's like you turned your, I don't know if you want to call it your weakness or your adversity into a superpower. I don't like the word weakness because I think we're all born with things that put us at slight disadvantages in life. But you are certainly a resilient person and I'm so in awe of what you've been able to do in your life. So thank you for coming on the show. And I just have to say, I love that you call it Born Lucky because so many parents, when they hear a diagnosis that they don't like, they feel like, how could this happen to me? And you and your family have completely turned it on your head. On its head.
- [03:02]
Leland Vittert
Well, a lot there, Tara. Thank you and thanks for having me on. I think there is something to separate here. The success of the book is not because of me. I am a television anchor, but I'm not narcissistic enough to think it's because of me. It's because of what the book speaks to, which is hope and power and agency for every parent of a kid who's having a hard time. Not just autism, but kids on the Asperger, kids on the autism spectrum, kids with adhd, anxiety, difficulties growing up, the bullying that now exists on social media. Born Lucky is proof of what really involved parents can do and how, no matter what the diagnosis is, number one, your kid doesn't have to be defined by it, but number two, how much parents can do to help their kid be more and to push their kid to be more and to show them that self esteem is earned. Not given all of the things that my dad did with me. And it's resonating with parents because nobody is giving them that message right now.
- [04:10]
Tara Palmieri
Yeah. And I think it's like the sense of agency too, that things that you can do something about it, that you're not a victim to your diagnosis. Like, I, I feel like we've fallen into victim, I guess, almost like it's like a personality trait now people have and people want it on both sides of the aisle politically. Like, you even hear the president being like, I'm a victim of political persecution. I'm a victim. Like, you hear it from everyone. It's like they want to be identifying as a victim. But in this story, what so many people could say is, is, is a story of victimhood. You turned it into a story of triumph. I love this line. When your family found out about your diagnosis, he, you're the person who, who diagnosed you diagnosed you said. The second thing is that he has to want to do it. He has to want to be better. He has to want to be part of society. Lucky is what they called you, which is so sweet, has to want it. And for years, that was your dad's guiding light. And from that moment, he was geared toward, quote, wanting toward me, wanting to be better. And it's just a reminder that so much of life is just making your own path. Right?
- [05:23]
Leland Vittert
Right. Yeah. No, it's a great point, Tara. And, you know, victimhood. And I got in a little bit of trouble for saying this earlier, but I will say it again because I believe it to be true. Victimhood is a more dangerous and addictive drug than fentanyl because it will crush you and it will define you for your whole life. So I think that is the overarching theme of the book. The scene you're talking about was after my parents had been told I needed to be evaluated, which is the worst thing any family can ever hear about their kid, right? So they take me in one of those little medical testing centers and give me off to the psychologist. And the psychologist comes back with me and says, we don't really understand what's going on inside his head. Now, to be fair, my wife would say that probably is still true. But, yeah, she said there's a lot of problems here. Number one, terrible behavioral problems. So if a kid would touch me in the lunch line, I would turn around and slug them. I couldn't play with any children, kids my own age, because I didn't understand how social interaction worked. If kids were playing, I wanted to talk about things that were serious. If kids were trying to be serious, I would try to tell a joke. It was completely foreign to me. Number two, really bad sensory issues, right? So, you know, if there was. If I had socks on or a shirt on I didn't like, or a jacket or whatever, I would totally melt down. And number three, I had what we would call now severe learning disabilities. So in that test, they gave me an IQ test. And an IQ test is two halves. IQ score is the average of the two halves. A 20 point spread between the two halves is a learning disability. I had a 70 point spread. So from mentally retarded in the parlance of the day to genius in other parts. And the woman said we'd never seen that spread that big before. So when she said to my parents, this is what you're dealing with, they said, is there anything we can do? And she said, generally not. And then as you picked up on, she said, there are things, but he has to want it. And what was different about what my parents did is they said, we're not going to tell anybody about his diagnosis and we're not going to give him any accommodations. So no extra time on tests, no telling teachers that I had all of these problems and therefore needed special protection from bullies or even from the teachers themselves. Nothing. And my dad both Believed that the only chance I would have is to adapt me to the world rather than adapt the world to me. And Born Lucky is that story of how he adapted me to the world.
- [08:09]
Tara Palmieri
I love it. I love your dad's dedication too. I mean, so much of life is the luck of being born into great parents. And it seems like your father who wrote the book with you, Don Yeager, is one of those people.
- [08:22]
Leland Vittert
Well, Don's not my father.
- [08:24]
Tara Palmieri
Oh, I'm sorry. Is your dad's name Don as well?
- [08:27]
Leland Vittert
No, my dad's name is Mark.
- [08:28]
Tara Palmieri
Okay. Excuse me. So sorry, I thought that was your dad.
- [08:32]
Leland Vittert
No, the Don story is a great story. I was never going to tell the story.
- [08:37]
Tara Palmieri
Okay.
- [08:38]
Leland Vittert
And this had always been private. My parents never told anybody about my diagnosis. They didn't tell me until I was in my 20s.
- [08:45]
Tara Palmieri
Wow.
- [08:45]
Leland Vittert
And when I was in my. And when I got to be about 38, 39, and I started at News Nation, I was working with a talent coach to help me in making the transition from being a reporter to a full time anchor and a primetime anchor. And one of the things she kept talking to me about was the emotional connection with guests and how to respond and, and match their emotion. And for the first time in my life I ever told anybody that I worked with or really anybody outside of my family. I get it and I'm working on that. But you have to understand, that's about the hardest thing in the world for me to do because I'm autistic and I never. I didn't want to use it as an excuse, but I thought it was only fair that somebody was trying to coach me new that she was working with somebody who, who was severely deficient and it would be harder for her to teach that. And she didn't believe me. She said, I can't believe this. It's stunning. And I've never, you know, have you told anybody? I said, I've never told anybody. That was. This is why. She said, well, have you ever written anything about it? And I said, well, yeah. I said, about a year or two ago, I wrote about 700 words. Basically sort of a thank you to my dad. Just a thought about my dad, but I hadn't even shown it to him. She said, let me see it. So I sent it to her. And she, unbeknownst to me, sent it to a book agent who knew Don yeager, who's a 12 time now 13 time New York Times best selling author. And the book agent knew that Don is the father of an autistic Child and don got the 700 words and he called me and he said, I really have to tell this story and I think it's so important. And what he said was, is that this story is going to give hope to so many families. And you know what this story would have meant to me if I had known it when my child was diagnosed. So that's where Born Lucky came from.
- [10:52]
Tara Palmieri
I love that. I've also worked with coaches like that, by the way, when I went into television from being a print journalist. And it can be really hard to hear from people for the first time that these are all the ways that you don't sound great or these are all the ways that you have been your entire life that need to change. Right.
- [11:09]
Leland Vittert
Well, I've heard it my entire life from my dad, so it's.
- [11:12]
Tara Palmieri
So you were used to coaching like that?
- [11:14]
Leland Vittert
Yeah, you know, that was really what he was. Right. I wasn't going to have any friends and I wasn't going to be good at school and I wasn't going to be good at athletics. He knew all those things. So he turned into a full time coach to teach me the social and emotional fabric that most people understand naturally that still to me, for me to this day is a learned skill.
- [11:41]
Tara Palmieri
Yeah, it's amazing. And I just, I still can't get over the fact that you work in communications because I actually have some people in my family who have almost the exact same diagnosis to what you had. My mom's sister could not speak until she was five or six. Her son had the same and they're brilliant in math and sciences. She's a nurse practitioner, her son's an engineer. They don't have the best communication skills, but they're obviously extremely, you know, proficient, beyond proficient, almost genius level in other skill sets. Like for me, I could read very young, I could speak young, but math and sciences, not my place. You know, I could memorize things, I could read, but I was not able to compute. I have problems with simple math sometimes, which the listeners who pay attention to the show will see from time to time when I'm counting on my fingers. But the fact that you leaned into the area, that was hard for you, I find that to be amazing. Like, that is, that is a, that is a strength and a character, something that I admire. And on the show, especially when we talk about injustice, we talk about I use the word survivor rather than victim. And to me, you are a survivor of something that so many people right now are just trying to wrap their head around, like autism. Autism is a dirty word, you know, it really is. And I. And I remember your parents saying they, they didn't like the label, they didn't like the category. And I'm sure that's why they didn't tell you to your 20s, because just that the. The term upsets people. And I think there's so much disinformation out there. And what do you think about that, especially as it's being debated in.
- [13:18]
Leland Vittert
Yeah, it's a great question. And look, for me, growing up was hell, right? You know, by the time I was in sixth grade, I'd been pulled out of, I think, three schools. You know, when I was in fifth grade, my dad came over to check on me at this one school I was at and goes up to the PE fields where he figured out that I was going to be and says to the PE teacher, how's Lucky doing? And the PE teacher looks at him. The guy was a big guy, football player, knew my dad from another school. And the guy goes, well, I think Lucky's doing a little better today. And my dad goes, great, let's go see him. Let's go see him in pe. And the guy goes, I don't think this is a good idea. My dad goes, why not? He says, well said. For the past month or so, I've had to put him with the girls because the boys bully him too badly. You know, my, My sisters, we were interviewing family members for the book. My, I asked my sister about her memories of me growing up, and she said, well, my first memory of you as my brother is from that fifth grade when you would come pick me up at kindergarten. So my sister was in kindergarten, I was in fifth grade at the same school. We would walk home together. So I would walk down the stairs from the classroom, my classroom, to her classroom, pick her up, and then we would walk actually through those same PE fields that my dad soul was crushed at, out to the woods, through the woods to our house. It was about a half mile. And she said, I remember every day we would get to the woods so no one could see you, and you would just break down crying so that, you know, seventh grade. And this is in Born Lucky. You know, my parents get called in now that I'm at my fourth school, second week of school, the principal sits them down in one of those little principal's offices. My parents are so hopeful that this now will be my fresh start. And they say, this woman says to my parents, you know, everybody at this school thinks Lucky is really weird. So arrow number one through my parents heart. And then she follows up with everyone. Everyone. And she goes follows through with. And I do too. You'll understand this. Tara. What. What my dad didn't tell me through all of that was that middle school was by far the best training you could ever get for a Washington newsroom.
- [15:31]
Tara Palmieri
Oh God. Yeah. But that's why I started my own company. I didn't really like middle school or high school that much. So.
- [15:41]
Leland Vittert
You'Re a good person. As I said, I never liked anyone who liked high school because the values of high school are so screwed up. But you, you brought up where we are. And I'm not trying to dodge your question about where we are in the national conversation. I think we will talk to that.
- [15:56]
Tara Palmieri
But I am interested.
- [15:57]
Leland Vittert
Yeah, yeah, I'll answer your question. Number one, I'm not a doctor. I'm not a scientist. I have the chemistry grades to prove it. So therefore I don't know about Tylenol dosing or cause and effect and anything else. Number two, the explosion of autism cases should be the scientific question of our time. One in 1500 when I was a kid. Now one in 31 triple that for boys higher and poor and minority communities. We have got to find the answer to this. And finally now someone and be it are led by RFK is is doing that. And Chris Hayes on MSNBC did this thing. He says, you know, RFK Jr. Is obsessed with finding the cause of autism. How dare he? Well how dare we not? I mean if we can prevent kids from going through the hell that I went through. And by the way, the kids who have profound autism, whose lives will be shattered for the rest of their life, who will need 24 hour care for the rest of their life, whose parents lives were upended and will forever be dedicated to trying to just get their kid to survive. Why wouldn't we want to find the answer to that? And I think at the same time you can acknowledge that everybody is a beautiful person and everybody has qualities and strengths and should be loved and protected and on and on and say at the same time, if my wife right now were pregnant and you gave me a piece of paper so that I could check a box, my next child, my child will be autistic or not. I would choose no a thousand out of a thousand times and so would every other parent. So this idea that we can't be honest about what autism is and you have to celebrate everybody and say oh no, everybody's fantastic I think is really insulting to the difficult road that so many people have Gone through.
- [17:51]
Tara Palmieri
Okay, I want to counter that for one second. First of all, you're right. The number of diagnoses of autism have gone up drastically. It is now, you know, fastest growing minority. But is it possible that doctors have gotten better diagnosing autism?
- [18:06]
Leland Vittert
Yeah, that's absolutely true. And the end that more people. Diagnosis is. The criteria has. Has certainly expanded. I have yet to find a highly respected epidemiologist who will tell you that explains everything. And I sat down with Jay Bhattachary, who's head of the NIH, and I said, okay, explain to me 1 in 1500 to 1 in 31. He says, Part of its surveillance, which is what they call what you're saying. Yeah. And he said, and there has to be other factors because of how they look at the data of the number of profound autism cases when people are diagnosed, why certain states have higher numbers than others. I don't understand the data, but every smart scientist I know says, and I've spent a lot of time researching this, that there is something going on. Now, maybe it's just that men are. We know that the older a man is, the more likely they are to have an autistic child. My dad was 35 when he had me. I'm 43. So take from that what you will and don't have any children, but maybe that's the answer. I don't know.
- [19:19]
Tara Palmieri
I don't know, though, because my grandmother had three children that didn't. I'm not going to diagnose my aunt, but she sounds like she had the same issue that you had, and then her son had it. You know, it's like there's.
- [19:29]
Leland Vittert
There's a genetic component. There's all these things. But I think what's so important, Tara, and this is where I. I'm really passionate about this, as somebody who went through this, is. We don't know. But what is so frustrating to me is all the people who want to say, well, it can't be vaccines. We must acknowledge that it can't be vaccines because there's misinformation everywhere. Well, that isn't, to me, the most important thing. To me, the most important thing is finding the actual answer. And if you start putting sacred cows out there that you can't talk about, and you must acknowledge the sacred cow before you ask the scientific question. That's not science. And for everybody who says we want to follow the science, let's follow the science. Science is the pursuit of truth. And if it's not vaccines, then there should be no problem asking that question in doing good science about it.
- [20:17]
Tara Palmieri
Absolutely. I think everything should be on the table. But I do worry about disinformation and people using the information that's being put out there and making life choices based on what exists on a Reddit thread or even what is being promoted by people who don't have any, you know, background in the topic. Because I have friends that have.
- [20:37]
Leland Vittert
I worry more about the other side. You know, I'm old enough to remember when you couldn't say that you got, could get Covid if you had the COVID vaccine. I'm old enough to remember when disinformation turned out to be real.
- [20:51]
Tara Palmieri
Right.
- [20:52]
Leland Vittert
And true. So therefore, I'm more, to me, I'm more worried about not finding the truth than I am about the consequences of disinformation being out there now.
- [21:01]
Tara Palmieri
Even if that means people don't give their kids vaccines.
- [21:04]
Leland Vittert
Well, that's for parents to decide. I'm not like, I don't, to me, as a journalist, I don't view myself as the information police. I view myself as a really strong questioner. And I think if you go back and watch my interviews with Bhattacharya and others, you'll see, I think the bigger risk right now is not finding the answer. That, to me, is what should be. The essential point is we're at a moment where finally, finally people are willing to talk about this as the scientific question of our time. And that, to me, is the most important thing.
- [21:47]
Tara Palmieri
Yeah, you wrote, because doctors confidently tell you what doesn't cause autism, but lack confidence in describing the causes. So people, parents feel like they're left in the dark because the medical community can't give them reasons for what causes. It is basically what you. Yeah, yeah.
- [22:04]
Leland Vittert
I mean, I think, and I think there's a point here, right from Chris Hayes. He when he said, you know, basically, you know, RFK is obsessed with finding the cause of autism, as if, you know, how dare he. That this is so. This is so wrong there. I think there's a lot of people who are far more interested in scoring political points than they are in trying to figure this out. Like, okay, so if it's one in two kids who are diagnosed with autism, because that's where we're going with the, the statistics, you know, how this is expanding, then do we step back and say, okay, now we're going to find the answers. Like, I, to me, kids should come first. Let's find the answers and go from there?
- [22:43]
Tara Palmieri
Yeah, but it doesn't. But like, the idea that Tylenol causes autism. Like that doesn't concern you? That that's been promoted. Oh, by, by the highest office. By the way, this isn't just a doctor, Tara.
- [22:58]
Leland Vittert
I think we can all agree. Okay. That, that I'm not a doctor, you're not a doctor, and Donald Trump isn't.
- [23:06]
Tara Palmieri
A doctor, neither is RFK Jr. Well, that.
- [23:09]
Leland Vittert
Fine.
- [23:10]
Tara Palmieri
Yeah.
- [23:11]
Leland Vittert
Nor was Biden's HHS, nor was anybody. So I, that, to me is irrelevant.
- [23:17]
Tara Palmieri
Right.
- [23:17]
Leland Vittert
What's relevant? Like. And if you want to take your medical advice from Donald Trump as a mother and not take Tylenol and choose Trump over your doctor, that's up to you. Now, would. Is that where I get my medical advice? No, but that's why I, you know, that's why I've had. That's why I've not. That's why I've had J. Bhattachary on the show. Not other people to, to talk about this from, from actually looking at the science and what I've heard from them is we don't know the answer to this question. Let's figure it out. I think we can all agree that. Yeah, we can all agree that shaming mothers or issuing blanket statements about what mothers should and shouldn't do on very nuanced medical issues from the podium or from the White House, that probably isn't helpful. I mean, I, you know, and I think the message.
- [24:10]
Tara Palmieri
There's a stigmatization, people. There's a stigmatization around actually investigating autism. Is what you think.
- [24:17]
Leland Vittert
Yeah. Well, I don't think. I know. Well, yeah, my reporting shows that because I've talked to scientists who have said over and over that one of the reasons we don't have an answer is because, for example, the, the, the pro vax community or the, the vaccine community has refused to even fund or allow studies that would show whether or not vaccines do this. You know, I mean, that's not me saying it. That's what my reporting shows. So, yeah, to me, there's a, There's a confluence here right between the book of my story and the current climate. I'm not an expert in autism. I'm not an expert in the causes of autism. I'm not a scientist. I'm a journalist. And what my reporting shows is, is that we don't have the answers to this really pressing question. And it's become a political football where people are more interested in scoring political points than they are in coming together in solving this problem, which is what I wrote in the Wall Street Journal.
- [25:20]
Tara Palmieri
I will say, I love that your dad really took control of this. He, you know, was able to sort of sell his business and focus on teaching you how to exist in an environment that some could argue you weren't really, you know, born into understanding on your own. And he. And he seems like such an amazing person and. And even, like, the way, like, he would tap his watch as a signal to you rather than scolding you. He seems like he could be in. He should write his own book, frankly, on how to.
- [25:58]
Leland Vittert
Well, he's. He's very. He should. Yeah, he's very reluctant with the hero moniker that I give him as our most true heroes. The afterword is written by him, which I think is the most important part. And when we went through Tara trying to write this, he was very reluctant. And he said, look, I haven't talked about this for 43 years. I don't think we should now. And I said, okay. And we got to the point that we were going to do this and. Because we thought it could really help a lot of people. And I think it is because you're seeing what's the response to it, right? That it's. That it's sort of blown up here. And what I said to dad is, I said, look, you need to tell me and be as raw with me as you can in your interviews. So he and I did long interviews together, and he was as raw and as open as he could be or could remember. A lot of tears. And in return, I said, but I going to give you the manuscript before I turn it into HarperCollins. And if you don't want me to turn it in, I won't. Now, to be fair, I didn't have a plan because I had a book contract, but if he said no, what was I going to do?
- [27:11]
Tara Palmieri
Your finger crossed, dad.
- [27:14]
Leland Vittert
Well, I gave it to him, and he read it, and he said, I don't know. This is really deeply, deeply personal stuff. The Born Lucky is the worst parts of my life. And I'd never been to therapy. So going to therapy on national television, Tara, as much as I like talking to you, is not really like, you know, my top 10 things to do in life. It's hard. But I gave him the manuscript. He read it. He said, I don't know. And we're sitting there. And I said, all right, dad, let me turn it around. If when we were in that little medical office building and the woman said there wasn't much hope for me, if instead she had handed you Born Lucky and said, this isn't a prescription, it's not a cure. But this is just a story of what a parent can do who gets really involved and really, really dedicates themselves to helping their kid be more, rather than just meeting their kid where they're at. What would you have done? And he said, I would have read it every week. So that, to me, is the, the most important part of this. And yeah, you know, he, he was in a position to quit his job. I asked him, you know, if you hadn't been able to quit your job, what would you have done? And he said, I would have worked the night shift because I knew the only chance you had was for me to be there for you when you went to school and when you came home for school, because I was your only friend. Which is true.
- [28:42]
Tara Palmieri
It's beautiful. Also, again, Leland, flipping the script, even in the way that you convinced your father to tell this deeply personal story to the world, because I, I mean, I know from my own generation, my parents generation, yeah, they're not like us, you know, they, they don't, they were not the type that, you know, go to therapy, share their share.
- [29:05]
Leland Vittert
Well, I, I, I'm not, I'm not either. You know, I didn't, I didn't go to therapy my whole life. And this is, this is, this is the therapy. And I've often joked with Don as we were working on this together, I was like, buddy, I was like, this is, this is, I've never talked about this stuff with anybody but my father. You know, this is, this is a whole different thing. And now going to therapy on national television and telling these stories over and over again, I do it because it can help people. You know, you brought up the Watch story, and this was the way my dad tried to teach me social interaction, right? So we would go to lunch normally with his friends because I didn't, I didn't have any friends. And I was a curious little kid. I was an incessant questioner. I would have loved to gone to lunch with Tara because she just started her own business and her own show and is doing so fantastic. And I would have sat there and you would have been talking about your new apartment or whatever. And I would have said Ms. Palmieri, because it was always Mr. Or Mrs. To my dad. How do you pick the guest for your show? How do you book your guests? How do you find your best sources? How do you get them to trust you? How do you sell advertising? What's it like being out on your own and starting your own business and it would have never ended. So my dad would tap his watch and that was my message to number one, stop talking. But number two, to bookmark it. Right. So then we would be in the car driving home and he'd go, okay, so when Ms. Palmieri was talking about her new apartment, why did you ask her about what guest she was booking? I don't know, dad. I thought it was interesting. Well, right, but what do you think she wanted to talk about? How could you have connected with her? And then we would role play. Me asking you questions about you and what you were talking about. And this was, this was an everyday for 10 years of teaching me that social fabric.
- [31:00]
Tara Palmieri
That's amazing. And by the way, I think your dad actually made you a great journalist.
- [31:06]
Leland Vittert
Well, thank you.
- [31:07]
Tara Palmieri
Seriously.
- [31:08]
Leland Vittert
I'll let others decide that, but thank you.
- [31:12]
Tara Palmieri
Yeah, no, that's a, that's amazing to hear this story and your father's dedication, it is, it is a really hopeful story. I mean, I don't have children. I don't know what they're going to be like. And um, they might be. They all come out differently. My brother and I are completely different. People born 10 years apart had our own struggles, our own personalities, and my parents had to deal with both of us differently. He needed more hands on support at certain times in his life and I needed more hands on support at certain times in my life. And. But the fact that your father really stepped up to the plate is just a sign that like, you have agency and so many things in life are out of our control. But you can turn the chaos, you can turn, you know, the disappointment into something really beautiful. And I think this is a story and your success is a testament to that. So, you know, we're all rooting for you. And as you've already shown, and I think it's, I think it's so important and so many people have stories like this and they're afraid to say that, you know, there's so many other.
- [32:20]
Leland Vittert
But yeah, I think that's what's so interesting about this, Tara, is that as the book has come out, and we know the book's only been out now for, for two weeks, but the hundreds of people I am hearing from who now feel like they're not alone. So many parents are struggling, right, and they feel like they're alone and they're. And they're basically told by the experts, you know, just put your kid in bubble wrap, right? Meet, meet every kid where they're at. Adapt the world of the kid. And there was this Woman who came up to me, who I'd known tangentially for a while, I'll give you two brief stories on that because I think you're so right, is she has two kids, both of whom are model beautiful, one boy, one girl, Ivy League D1, you know, Ivy League athletes, incredibly successful like these kids, you'd think, what issue has they ever had? And this mother came up to me and she said, your book spoke so much to me. And we were sitting at a dinner and I didn't want to laugh, but I'd be like, really? I know your kids and I know my story and not the same. And she says, well, she said my son had a nut allergy. And when he was diagnosed with the nut allergy, I was told that I needed to go to the school and pull every peanut out of every classroom and demand that there be a peanut free zone around my son to protect him. And she said, I knew that there'd be no way to create a peanut free zone for the rest of his life. So I went doctor to doctor, doctor to doctor, until I finally found someone who would desensitize him to peanuts. And that I was told I was being a bad mom and I was told I wasn't, you know, protecting my son and on and on. And now because he's desensitized to peanuts, he can be in ROTC and go be in the military, which he never could have done if I hadn't done that. And it was no one's telling parents how much power they have, right? And in the flip side of that is I've gotten this criticism, oh well, you know, this is the story of how to turn your kid into a cable anchor. No, this is a story about how to show kids they can be more, you know, for my dad, it started with I was doing 200 push ups a day as a 5 or 6 year old because it was the only way he could figure out how to teach me self esteem. So I was talking to this father of a kid who has profound autism. Non verbal will always live in a group home. His father's incredibly dedicated to him and he said, boy, he said, I just loved what your dad dad has done. He said, my son was 20, very unhappy, obviously, you know, struggling, trapped in this body as a 20 year old nonverbal kid. And we found out that when he left the group home to go to activities, the thing he liked the most was splashing around in the pool. So I decided as his father, we're going to teach him to swim which everyone told him he couldn't do. And the kid now swims a mile and a half every morning.
- [35:18]
Tara Palmieri
I love it.
- [35:19]
Leland Vittert
He's happier, he's engaged. He gets up every morning and puts on his clothes to go to the gym. It's totally changed his life. All because his dad said to the experts, we're going to do more than have my kids splash around in the pool. So that, that to me is why this is resonating.
- [35:36]
Tara Palmieri
It's, you know, in, sometimes in life you have to be told you can't do something to feel self esteem. Do you know what I'm saying?
- [35:44]
Leland Vittert
Well, I think you, you have to be told. I put a different point. You have to actually accomplish something. Right. Because so much now, and I think you believe that you. We're going to be in agreement on this. The world wants to tell everybody they're wonderful and you're fantastic in self esteem is a participation trophy. Be proud of this. Participation.
- [36:02]
Tara Palmieri
I definitely wasn't raised like that. My parents were. No, no, no parents. I was like, I'll prove you wrong.
- [36:09]
Leland Vittert
Self esteem is earned, it's not given.
- [36:12]
Tara Palmieri
Yeah, yeah, it's true. I mean, and, but still we need stories because we're not always able to see through the dark. And clearly the story is a story of seeing through the dark. Your dad felt intuitively that he could do something. He got little nuggets of, you know, encouragement of maybe this could happen, maybe this could help. And he took it upon himself and he, he intuitively helped you build your self esteem. There was no guidebook. Now, I hope your father, if he's listening, will one day write the, the guidebook. I know it won't be the same for every child.
- [36:50]
Leland Vittert
I think, yeah, he did. He really did. If you read the afterword, okay, the guidebook to me and everyone's asked me for advice, you know, what advice would you have for parents? I have no advice because I'm not a parent. This is a parenting book written by a kid, right? But if you read the afterword by my father and Tara, you'll appreciate this. I had George Will write the foreword.
- [37:14]
Tara Palmieri
I read it, I loved it.
- [37:16]
Leland Vittert
And I had my dad.
- [37:17]
Tara Palmieri
Well, and I'm like, yeah, I had.
- [37:20]
Leland Vittert
My dad write the afterword, right? And I had to fill 240 pages in the middle, which was the joke.
- [37:26]
Tara Palmieri
It's okay.
- [37:27]
Leland Vittert
Come on, dad. Afterward really is, I think his philosophy. And it's not, it's, it's about a mindset that he had. And, you know, I don't have Any advice for people? I think that everybody will read the book and take different lessons from it. But that was the idea that this was, this was show, don't tell. This is, this is my story. It's not a prescription. It's not a how to manual. It's a story of what a really involved parent can do. And you know, it's funny, I was.
- [38:00]
Tara Palmieri
It's a story of hope overcoming adversity. It's a story. It's. It really is. It's a story of hope.
- [38:08]
Leland Vittert
Well, and people and parents need that. They're not told that. Oh, it's.
- [38:13]
Tara Palmieri
They feel powerless. They hear doctors and diagnosis and this and that. They're always told what their child can't do, not what they can, can do. They feel so much guilt. They, they blame themselves. It's a society that's constantly out there telling you that you're the one that's. That's the problem. It's, it's. This is what people need right now. I think you've really tapped into the zeitgeist of the moment in so many ways.
- [38:37]
Leland Vittert
Well, all, all I know is that we, we thought that by telling the story and by doing this, it could help people that, you know, born lucky could be a way for parents.
- [38:48]
Ford Commercial Voice
Ford was built on the belief that the world doesn't get to decide what you're capable of. You do. So ask yourself, can you or can't you? Can you load up a Ford F150 and build your dream with sweat and steel? Can you chase thrills and conquer curves in a Mustang? Can you take a Bronco to where the map ends and adventure begins? Whether you think you can or think you can't, you're right.
- [39:15]
Leland Vittert
Ready, set, forward parents to understand how much power they really do have and how much hope there really is. What no matter what their kid is dealing with. So that, that to me was really the important part of the story.
- [39:30]
Tara Palmieri
Well, thank you so much for your time and thank you for writing this book and for being so bold and honest and raw and believe me, a lot of people walk around day to day with secret diagnosis and you know, they have labels and cat. And they have been told by doctors that they can't do this or do that. And it really harms their self esteem. And it really takes identification to people who are out there openly sharing their stories that give them hope. And it's your courage that really, that helps others. I mean, that's a really big part of the reason why I focus on the Epstein story too. And Focus on the stories of the survivors. So showing them not as women who are beaten down, but as people with agency. And they're not victims or survivors and they're taking their own, they're getting their own justice. And I think in a lot of ways we have to see ourselves as, as people with power and agency in our own life stories. And this is a story of that.
- [40:24]
Leland Vittert
Well, it's a perfect also story of, of you going out on your own in journalism and what you've built and created. It's the same as what I think you pointed out, what the Epstein victims are doing now and, and talking about their story. I, you know, I never thought of myself as a survivor or a victim or anything else. I've always just sort of thought of myself as me. And you know, I don't ever want to compare. You know, I think there's, you know, in the same way there's like, you know, the diversity ladder, there's like the oppression ladder of everyone. You know, I've suffered this way and I've suffered that, you know, and you know, oh, well, that for one person.
- [40:59]
Tara Palmieri
Is different than a trauma for another, you know.
- [41:01]
Leland Vittert
Right. So I think it's just sort of, to me this was about that really intimate relationship of, of parents and kids and just what my dad did for me and therefore what other parents can do for their kids. And I just think it, it as you pointed out though, that concept of victimhood and of, of letting kids sort of be the victim. It doesn't sound like it's how your parents treated you. Certainly not how my parents treated me.
- [41:31]
Tara Palmieri
I would say you are a survivor of autism in some ways.
- [41:35]
Leland Vittert
I'll let everybody else put the labels.
- [41:37]
Tara Palmieri
Yeah, whatever you want to say, whatever makes you feel.
- [41:40]
Leland Vittert
People, people said a lot of things about me growing up and still do, I guess on Twitter, on the Twitter's as it's called, but I'm just me.
- [41:50]
Tara Palmieri
Yeah. Well, we're really happy you're here and thank you so much for joining the show. We'd love to have you back. And I hope every parent that's watching this looks to Leland and his amazing career and follows him on News Nation. Goes out and buy the book that's already number four on the New York Times bestseller list. Like I said, I wish I had time to read more of it. But as we know, this show comes out almost every single day. But I've, I've been on it and it's a tear jerker from even the forward. So yeah, it's a great book really, it really brings you in. And it's. It's a great life lesson, too.
- [42:24]
Leland Vittert
Thanks, Tara.
- [42:25]
Tara Palmieri
Thanks so much. That was another episode of the Tara Palmieri Show. Thank you again for tuning in. Please rate subscribe, Share this with your friend. Leave some comments about what you liked or didn't like about this show. If you want to support my independent journalism and get my exclusive scoops straight to your inbox, please go to tarapalmieri.com and sign up for the Red Letter, my newsletter. That's Tara T A R A P A L M E R I and it's a way for you to support my independent journalism and get exclusive news straight from me to your inbox. I want to thank my producer Eric Abenate, my researcher Abby Baker, and Adam Stewart on the graphics. I'll be back again soon.