← The Tara Palmeri Show
The Tara Palmeri Show
How Epstein Survivors Took On the Trump Administration with Angie Sullivan
00:20:07
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- [00:00]
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Podcast Host
Today I'm here with Tara Palmieri, who has been a reporter that has been on the Epstein story for a decade at least. I want to ask her some questions regarding the victims. Tara, thank you for being on. How are you?
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Tara Palmeri
I'm good. Thanks for having me. It's such a pleasure to be on your show. I'm a fan, so I'm happy to be here.
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Podcast Host
I've digest everything you do over on Substack with the red letter. It's excellent. One thing and this, I didn't even have this on my topic because I wanted to talk to you about, but when this whole story first came out, I was like, who is Ghis Maxwell? What kind of woman would do this to little girls? And then I found all the information on her father and how she was raised. And if you'll just hit the highlights, you know, two or three highlights of what his behavior was like.
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Tara Palmeri
Yeah, no, he. Yeah, he was a disgusting person. I. The. The Power. The Maxwell series is almost like a succession type series because he was a powerful media baron. I mean, he owned the New York Daily News. He owned the Mirror, which is a huge influential newspaper in the UK. He owned MTV Europe, Paragon Press, McMillan. I mean, he was larger than life. His rival at the time was Rupert Murdoch, and they fought for publication. So like, think of her as like the daughter of Rupert Murdoch of like, as Elizabeth Murdoch. I mean, that's how powerful her family was. And he died mysteriously off the side of a yacht. He was thought to be a spy from Assad, which is the Israeli intelligence agency. But in the meantime, he was really quite vile. And the people that we interviewed for this podcast that worked for him described him, man, that, that, that treated people around him terribly, including his own daughter, Glenn Maxwell, frequently bringing her to tears, putting her down, you know, telling her that she's not smart, but at the same time praising her for her beauty and for her charm and for being like him. He was obviously a narcissist, but he would do things like urinate off the side of his hel. His launch pad, his helicopter launch pad. It was at the top of the building that he. That he owned in the UK and would use hand towels that were communal for his behind and then put them down. He would throw food at people. He was entirely disparaging. Just really not a great guy. I mean, even Tina Brown wrote about Ghislaine Maxwell, talking about how he would beat her up. I often wondered if they had some sort of disturbing relationship that might be borderline, you know, sexual abuse there. I don't have any. I don't have any hard facts to suggest that, but it just feels like there's something weird about it. I mean, at the same time, his former assistant told me that they would meow at each other on the phone, so they had this very bond. And he would bring her to parties and treat her as if he was. As if she was his wife and marvel at her beauty in kind of the same way that Trump does with Ivanka.
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And.
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Tara Palmeri
He named his yacht the Lady Galen after her. This is the yacht he mysteriously died off of. So they had a lot of weird, weird issues. But when he died, because he was defrauding pensioners at the Mirror and was in debt, she was left with nothing. And so she went from being a princess, going to Oxford, being royalty, almost to having nothing. And that's where Jeffrey Epstein steps in. And I. I think sometimes her desperation for the high life to resume that level that she was at with her father drew her to Jeffrey Epstein. Because people I've interviewed, like Jeffrey Epstein's houseman, Juan Alessi, said that Ghislaine used to cry in the car when she drove around looking for young girls to procure and groom. And she would say she hates him because he would put her down and call her stupid, sort of like her father did. But she couldn't leave him. She felt she couldn't leave him. I mean, I think there was a. And then she had put it in a file, in a court file that Jeffrey Epstein promised to provide for her financially for the rest of her life. So what does that mean? I mean, seems to me that he was her financial backer in exchange for procuring, molesting, grooming as many as a thousand victims, according to the FBI.
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Podcast Host
And she participated in it. She didn't only procure them, but from what I've read, she participated in some of the abuse, correct?
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Tara Palmeri
Yeah, I mean, Virginia Giu Fry testified that the first time she arrived at Jeffrey Epstein's house, Glenn Maxwell found her, by the way, at Mar A Lago, where she was working at the Spot. Sixteen brought her back to Jeffrey Epstein's house, and he. And Glenn was the one that took off her panties and was involved in the sexual abuse in the house. Same thing with Annie Farmer, who said that Glenn Maxwell and Jeffrey were in the same room and it was Glenn that fondled her. And so, you know, she was involved in this just as much as Jeffrey. And I just think she used the fact that she was this beguiling, posh British woman with this cute little dog that she called G Max Little Yorkie to bring girls in and she used that to trap them. And I wrote this piece for Politico called the women who enabled Jeffrey Epstein. And it's a pyramid and Glenn is at the top of it. But you know, you don't walk into a 50 something year old man's house as a teenage girl without feeling a comfort. And that comfort came from the fact that there were so many adult women around Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell was at the top of that. And she lured them in and she actually had a real talent for smelling desperation and being able to promise people that their dreams could be made true. And in the case of Virginia, Virginia was reading a book about how to become a masseuse and she said, I've got a dream job for you. A wealthy man is going to pay you to travel around the world with him and learn how to be a masseuse. And this is a girl who, by the way, was being sexually molested by her own father and living in poverty in a trailer. So.
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Podcast Host
Yeah, well, I read Virginia's book and I was heartbroken by it because I guess as cynical as I am, I wanted a happy ending for her and she didn't get it. And there were so many girls in her position that I think we forget how traumatized they are for their entire lives. And it's my understanding that Virginia is not the only one of these survivors who has taken her own life. Is. Hasn't there been more than one?
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Tara Palmeri
Yeah, no, you're absolutely right. I mean, there are many of them and like, they've done it in different ways. For example, Courtney Wild, whose Jane Doe won in the case against Jeffrey Epstein. She is still alive, but nearly died. I mean, she got a settlement from Jeffrey, a civil settlement, I think. I'm not entirely sure what it was, but it was enough for her to buy a house and she ended up spending all the money on drugs and alcohol and ending up in a. A actual like supermax prison in Florida. Okay. While Jeffrey Epstein was in a county jail. Like, it's just crazy. And so she used the settlement because she felt like she was being paid again for her services, like a Prostitute, even though she showed up at his house with braces as like a 14 year old. And so, so many of these women are tormented by it. And then they use drugs, they use alcohol, they, they take their lives and they don't feel better by the money. So this whole idea that it's some sort of money grab, I think a lot of them see that actually the money is not, is not actually what, is not what they want. They want justice, like they want to feel like their pain was worth something. And I'm just, I was really impressed by Courtney because she fought the Crime Victims Rights act case which ended up being the propeller of really the journalism that Julie K. Brown did with Brad Edwards was Julie's, was Courtney's lawyer. He put together this whole case claiming that the government through this sweetheart deal never actually told the victims about the sweetheart deal and therefore it was invalid and reopened the case. And so like what she did was incredible. I mean again, another person who has been through so much, has shown so much fortitude and suffered and, and is still out there. I mean I saw her on Capitol Hill and I was just like, wow, you know, you, you're here, you're doing it. Yeah, it's incredible.
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Podcast Host
Let me ask you this. I've, I've read so many things about how Glain would say to these survivors, I need you to do for him what you did to Jeffrey. So it was a procurement for other men. It threw out the scheme. How aware were these girls that, that that was coming or was it just like. I mean, I think I read that Virginia was like, oh, she's having a great time, she's doing all this with Pris Andrew and then it's like you need to do for him what you do for Jeffrey. So that was part of the scheme, correct?
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Tara Palmeri
Yeah, I think, I mean it was a trafficking operation and it wasn't just for Jeffrey Epstein. Some of the girls have, were, were only at Jeffrey Epstein's once and were abused and never came back. Some returned. Um, it's really, I think a lot about grooming and trafficking. Their age, their family situation. Like some people are just, especially young girls that come from broken households. They're more likely to be abused and trafficked and be in the kind of situations where this would happen. Particularly the girls that came over from Eastern Europe, there were a lot of them. His best friend had a modeling agency and he co owned it. It was called MC Squared with. It was with John Luke Brunel who by the way mysteriously died in prison by hanging himself and they brought over a lot of young girls from Eastern Europe and took their passports away. They're in completely vulnerable situations working for Jeffrey Epstein as essentially sex slaves. Like, he would refer to them as sex slaves. And what were they supposed to do? And so, yeah, that was part of it. Like, they had to also service his friends. And it's. It's vile. I mean, this is what happens. Not just to. This is. This happens all. Unfortunately, sex trafficking is a real problem in this country and I think, and all over the world. But this is highlighting it because of the vastness of it and the level in which the clients are so high level, you know, heads of financial institutions, academia, politics, that. That's what's brought it to the forefront. But sex trafficking is a real problem. It's just not. It's in the shadows, unfortunately. Right.
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Podcast Host
And this case brought it up. I remember my son said, bill Clinton's on this plane all the time with this famous sex trafficker. And I was like. And he was like, in high school at the time. He's grown now. And I was like, if Bill Clinton were on a plane with a sex trafficker, it would be the front page news of every story. And it turned out he was right.
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Tara Palmeri
Like, it was in page six. It was in a. Right.
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Podcast Host
I mean, five years later, this whole thing. And I'm just like, how have we ignored this for so long?
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Tara Palmeri
One thing that the New York Post wrote about it. But I do think that that shows you how powerful the Clinton media machine is that they were able to quash this story for so long from the mainstream press. Like, that is scary to me. And shows you also how much Epstein owned the press. Yeah.
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Podcast Host
And more.
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Tara Palmeri
Bill Clinton and his family own the press and why the story was allowed to remain quiet for so long. So that. That's my take on why your son read it, because he was probably reading alternate press. Right. Media wouldn't go near it.
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Podcast Host
Right. As they still do now. But that's a whole different topic for another day. I have been fascinated by, and I've asked different attorneys, but were the girls aware they were being videotaped having sex with these men while they were at Jeffrey Epstein's properties?
- [13:15]
Tara Palmeri
You know, that's a really good question. I have heard from survivors that they saw cameras everywhere and assume that they were being recorded. You can see them even in the photographs from the New York Times. Inside of Jeffrey Epstein's townhouse, there is a camera in every corner. You could claim their security cameras, but footage from security cameras compromise. But you don't usually put a security camera inside of a bedroom.
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Podcast Host
Right. Why would you need a security camera in a bedroom? And then we heard Howard Lutnick say, well, he recorded everything and he bribed people with these, these videotapes. So my question, I guess is, as we've seen in other cases of powerful men that recorded sex, they have been threatened. I'm going to put this out publicly.
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Tara Palmeri
The sex tape.
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Podcast Host
Did, did he threaten those, these young girls like that, or were they kind of knew what was going on but not aware of what happened afterwards?
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Tara Palmeri
I don't think the girls understood the whole power dynamics and the power plays at hand. Some of them just like didn't really recognize these men. I mean, I don't think women could necessarily reckon like a 14 year old or 15 year old wouldn't necessarily recognize a Marvin Minsk who was on the property, you know, who's a academic. Academic or like a. Even someone like Bill Richardson that, you know, Virginia Giuffre was traffic. Said she was trafficked too. She led that. Or you know, Senator Mitch Mitchell or you know, others that were around him. Like, these are people that aren't household names. Think about when you were 14 or 15 years old. Like, I'm about the same age as these girls. And I remember, you know, Britney Spears and. Right. And anyone who's like. But not academics, you know, necessarily like heads of, you know, Silicon Valley entrepreneurs or, you know, Elon Musk wasn't a huge thing. Peter Thiel. They were just around a lot of men and they were probably a lot of them like faceless white men, frankly, and did not remember all of them. So. Yeah.
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Podcast Host
Okay, one more question.
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Tara Palmeri
Prince Andrew comes, comes up frequently because they know him.
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Podcast Host
Right. He was obvious. He was one of the obvious. Okay, one more question. I know time's running short as we approach this December 19th deadline for DOJ to release this stuff. Number one, I am not confident that DOJ is going to properly release what it should release. What is the feeling of the survivors as we approach this date? Do they have trepidation because we've already seen Republicans release their private information or are they like, good, get it out.
- [15:54]
Tara Palmeri
It's a mix. Okay, so there are obviously only a few dozen survivors that have come out and actually, you know, identified as Epstein survivors outside of Jane Doe. And that's fine. Like if you are, if you are a victim of sexual assault, there's a reason why we have Jane Doe laws to protect you from the shame, from the, from all of it. So a lot of them don't Want their names out there, their families don't know their children, their friends. They don't want the press to follow them, follow them around. Now, the DOJ has nine days to actually release these files. And according to a letter that they wrote to two judges two days ago in a court document, they said they're still compiling a master list. They're decentralizing this. They're still hearing from new victims who have not been represented or come came forward before. They're still redacting. And they are also warning that there might be a mosaic in which they're identifying descriptors or, you know, features in the documents that might actually reveal victims, if not by name, but just with details. So they are very far from actually protecting the victims of Jeffrey Epstein and revealing the list in full. And a lot of the victims lawyers have already come forward saying, listen, what you dumped. Congress revealed the names of some victims who did not want their names out there. And as we know, they were working around the clock in the spring, you know, about a ousand agents over 24 hours to try to redact Trump's name. But what about the victims? Like, what were you doing then? So, Christy Greenberg, who's a former sex crimes prosecutor in the Southern District of New York, I just had her on my show, the Tara Palmeri Show. You can see it on YouTube or anywhere you get your podcast. But she said there's no way that they should be able to release the full Epstein files by December 19th and protect the victims at the same time. So.
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Podcast Host
Well, and they're going to delay trying to protect victims. They're trying to protect the rich, powerful men, in my opinion, and I'm not saying you're co signing that, but they've spent hours and hours and a thousand FBI agents to protect Donald Trump. I don't think they're interested in protecting the victims at this point. Call me cynical, but that's, that's but the history of their behavior.
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Tara Palmeri
I think that you are making an assumption based on a decent. I think that is a very decent assumption. So I'm not going to question that one.
- [18:24]
Podcast Host
Well, Tara Palmeri, thank you so much.
- [18:26]
Tara Palmeri
They can find you@tara palmari.com. it's where you can sign up for the red letter. It's how you can get my exclusive reporting. I'm an investigative reporter. Go straight to your inbox. I also cover politics. I used to be a political reporter. I still am for, you know, 15 years and maybe more now. Geez. And also I have got a show, the Tara Palmeri Show. YouTube, Apple, Spotify, wherever you get your podcast. And thank you so much for having me. I'm a fan of the show and it's such a pleasure to be on and I'd love to have you on my show as well.
- [18:59]
Podcast Host
Well, I. Here's the deal. You have to come back because I still have front and back questions I want to ask you.
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Tara Palmeri
Let's set it up. I'm ready.
- [19:06]
Podcast Host
Okay, great. Thanks, Kira. Thank you.
- [19:08]
Tara Palmeri
That was another episode of the Tara Palmari Show. Thanks so much for tuning in. If you like this show, please rate it, subscribe, follow share it with all your friends. Leave a comment if you like my reporting, go to Tara Palmeri.com that's T A R A P a L m e r I.com and sign up for the Red Letter, my newsletter. It's how you get exclusive reporting straight to your inbox. And it's how you can support my independent journalism by becoming a paid subscriber. I want to thank my producer Eric Abenate. I want to thank Abby Baker for booking this show. She also does my social media and research. I want to thank my manager Dan Rosen and Adam Stewart on the graphics. See you again tomorrow.
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