ICE Raids Divide America After Renee Good’s Death in Minneapolis

Summary

The Tara Palmeri Show

Episode: ICE Raids Divide America After Renee Goode’s Death in Minneapolis
Date: January 14, 2026
Host: Tara Palmeri
Guests: Roland Martin (Liberal Commentator), Laverne Spicer (Republican Congressional Candidate)

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Overview

This episode centers on the national fallout after the fatal shooting of Renee Nicole Goode, a U.S. citizen, by an ICE agent in Minneapolis. Host Tara Palmeri moderates a heated debate between liberal commentator Roland Martin and conservative congressional candidate Laverne Spicer. Together they dissect the impact of recent escalated ICE raids, contrasting narratives about immigration, law enforcement accountability, civil liberties, and partisan divides in both public response and governmental policy.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Minneapolis ICE Shooting: Divergent Narratives and Civil Liberties

[04:28–08:35]

• Setting the Scene: Tara opens by detailing the Jan 7th incident: the shooting of Renee Nicole Goode by ICE agent Jonathan Ross, noting how public opinion splits along political lines, even when presented the same video footage.
• Roland Martin’s Perspective: Martin argues that ICE’s tactics are needlessly escalatory and breed distrust—both among the public and fellow law enforcement.
  • “Their actions are also frankly, pissing off law enforcement ... When we talk about law enforcement, we often talk about the need to deescalate, whereas their attitude is walk in—massive escalation...” (Roland Martin, [04:28])
  • He contrasts this administration’s approach with that under Obama and Biden, emphasizing previous deportations were less theatrical and confrontational.
• Laverne Spicer’s Perspective: Spicer attributes the underlying problems to open borders, lack of vetting, and the influx of undocumented individuals.
  • “The problem is with these illegals—They have not been vetted ... They could be prisoners, they could have been gangbangers or whoever.” (Laverne Spicer, [06:19])
  • She insists individuals must comply with law enforcement and defends the agent’s use of lethal force, claiming Goode “was trying to run that man over.”

2. Enforcement Tactics: Legality, Accountability, and Obedience

[08:35–14:32]

• Obedience to Law and ICE’s Conduct:
  • Martin pushes back on Spicer’s focus on “obeying,” highlighting that ICE itself often oversteps laws (e.g., detaining legal citizens, demanding ID without cause).
    • “We’ve seen them grab people, pull them out of cars who are legal citizens ... do you speak English, where you from? ... So they have also been breaking the law themselves.” (Roland Martin, [11:42])
  • He accuses the Trump administration of fostering impunity among ICE through political messaging.
  • Spicer doubles down: “If you don’t want to obey the orders ... then so be it. You’re going to deal with the consequences.” ([11:27])
• Concerns About ICE Methods:
  • Tara repeatedly presses Spicer on whether she has concerns about current ICE methods; Spicer repeatedly redirects to concerns about “illegals,” sidestepping direct criticism of ICE.
    • Tara: “You don't care how they do it. Yeah, you don't care how they do it.” ([14:20])

3. Lethal Force and Federal Standards

[16:14–18:19]

• Tara asks: What standards should apply to federal agents’ use of lethal force and who should investigate abuse?
  • Spicer: Investigation should happen “if done incorrectly,” but defends the ICE agent’s perception of a threat.
    • “If your life is in jeopardy, you should have the right to use lethal force.” ([17:46])
  • Martin: Criticizes lack of real investigation by the Trump administration, noting Justice Department resignations in protest.
    • “They came out with, ‘Oh, no investigation needed because we've already concluded what happened.’ So you don't have any trust in a real investigation.” ([18:19])

4. Political Responsibility and Immigration Policy

[20:24–24:41]

• Spicer: Continues blaming the Biden administration and open borders for current problems.
• Martin: Points out inconsistencies in how ICE enforcement is applied—raids are directed at blue cities, while red-state agricultural employers of undocumented workers face fewer crackdowns.
  • “You have big business that has benefited from [undocumented labor] … never, ever want to call out conservatives, business owners who employ undocumented workers … So make up your mind, Republicans.” ([20:38])
• Tara: Notes Republicans, being in power, could pass comprehensive reform but haven’t acted.

5. Selective Enforcement and Regional Disparity

[24:54–27:13]

• Martin: Critiques selective enforcement, accusing the administration of targeting blue cities for political theater rather than consistent national policy.
  • “We’re going to target blue cities, blue states, and we’re not going to target red states. ... This is all about a MAGA agenda to say we’re going to chokehold blue cities.” ([26:20])
• Spicer: Repeats the demand for vetting; frames the influx in Minneapolis as a "Somalian invasion," and criticizes Congresswoman Ilhan Omar for alleged fraud.

6. Fraud, Social Services, and Political Deflection

[27:39–34:54]

• Spicer: Shifts discussion to supposed fraud among Somali organizations in Minnesota, expresses outrage over misallocated government funding.
  • Advocates for more funds to go to U.S. veterans and seniors rather than immigrants.
• Tara: Clarifies there’s no evidence fraudsters in the cited case were in the U.S. illegally; notes the leader was a white woman.
• Martin: Accuses Spicer (and MAGA) of selective outrage—highlighting cases of fraud by immigrants but ignoring large-scale fraud and pardons among Trump allies.
  • “Does MAGA only care about fraud when it involves undocumented workers, or do they care about fraud when it’s Republican donors … Trump has pardoned a number of people who have stolen billions.” ([33:48])
• Spicer: Responds by criticizing Biden’s pardons, bringing up unsubstantiated claims about prominent figures.

7. Debate Closes With Unresolved Tensions

[34:25–35:55]

• Tara attempts to moderate final statements, pressing Spicer on her views about Trump pardons.
• Spicer counters with Biden-related accusations.
• Both guests end with bravado about their willingness to debate.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Roland Martin on ICE Tactics:
  “When we talk about law enforcement, we often talk about the need to deescalate, whereas [ICE’s] attitude is walk in—massive escalation because Donald Trump made it perfectly clear ... they’ve got 100% immunity.” ([04:28])
• Laverne Spicer’s Defense of ICE:
  “If an officer asks you to stop, you should stop. You have to obey the law, and it’s just that simple.” ([07:28])
• Tara Palmieri Pressing on Methods:
  “Are you concerned about the methods that they're using?” — met with evasiveness by Spicer ([13:54]) “You don't care how they do it.” ([14:20])
• Martin on Political Motivations:
  “This is not about policy. This is about... We’re going to target blue cities, blue states, and we’re not going to target red states.” ([26:20])
• On Fraud and Pardons:
  “Do you only care about fraud when it involves undocumented workers, or do you care about fraud when it’s Republican donors who are able to buy themselves pardons?” ([33:48])

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [04:28] Roland Martin: ICE tactics and escalation
• [06:19] Laverne Spicer: Open borders and lack of vetting
• [11:42] Roland Martin: ICE violating legal citizens’ rights
• [14:20] Tara: Presses Spicer on care for ICE tactics
• [17:46] Spicer: Justification for use of lethal force by agents
• [18:19] Martin: Critique of investigation process (or lack thereof)
• [20:38] Martin: Big business and GOP hypocrisy on immigration
• [24:54] Martin: Why ICE targets blue cities over red state industries
• [26:20] Martin: “This is all about a MAGA agenda...”
• [29:25] Spicer: Fraud against veterans versus immigrants
• [32:22] Martin: Fraud leader was a white woman; broader issues ignored
• [33:48] Martin: “Does MAGA only care about fraud ...”
• [34:54] Closing remarks and final confrontation

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Tone and Style

• Energetic, confrontational, fast-paced: Frequent interruptions, rapid-fire exchanges, and pointed questions.
• Sharp, direct questioning from Tara: Unafraid to call out evasiveness or contradictions.
• Strong ideological contrasts: Each guest remains firmly on-script, at times talking past, not to, each other.
• Heated yet candid: Despite the arguments, both guests display a willingness to debate openly, with occasional humor amidst the acrimony.

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For Listeners

This episode offers a bracing cross-section of America’s immigration and law enforcement debates in early 2026. It is particularly valuable for its unfiltered display of both policy disagreement and partisan perception—showcasing not only different “sides,” but also the underlying emotions and tactics that shape contemporary political discourse on immigration, law enforcement accountability, civil rights, and government trust.

Transcript

[Tara Palmieri]

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[Laverne Spicer]

What I am concerned about is their legals that I hear. I am concerned about that.

[Roland Martin]

Answer the question.

[Laverne Spicer]

And I'm talking to her.

[Tara Palmieri]

Welcome back to the Tara Palmieri show. Today you're hearing a heated debate because the country is on fire. ICE raids, civil unrest and the killing of Renee Nicole Goode, a 37 year old US citizen shot by an ICE agent in Minneapolis on January 7th. There are competing narratives, a contested video and a Justice Department that's now facing resignations and real questions about trust. So I brought in two voices who are in on polar opposite sides of the conversation. Liberal commentator Roland Martin, who I first met when he was hosting a show on CNN about a decade ago. And Republican Laverne Spicer, who is running for Congress for the fourth time out of Miami. I'm giving them a fair fight, but I'm not letting either side hide behind talking points. We're going to define the line between enforcement and intimidation. Talk about what happens when cities erupt. And I'm going to demand something rare in cable news, a straight answer. But Republicans are in power right now, Laverne. They have the House. They have the Senate. They have the White House. They could do it now. They could do. Happy New Year. If you're anything like me, then your intention is to feel more present in your body, to bring more little luxuries into your life, to treat yourself like a queen, to really embrace life. And that's where Cozy Earth comes in. Their soft bedding, their luxurious pajamas and their towels that feel like a hug. Just a way to enjoy being in the present by upgrading the things around you that your senses, your touch, your smells. And so that's why I brought Cozy Earth into my life. And there's a hundred night SK sleep trial. You don't love them, return them hassle free. It's also a 10 year warranty because they're betting that this quality will last that long. Start the new year off right and give your home the luxury it deserves and make home the best part of Life. Head to cozyearth.com and use my code. Tara. That's T A R A for up to 20% off. And if you get a post purchase survey be sure to mention that you heard about cozy earth. Right, right here. Refresh your routines with comfort that makes everyday life feel like new year. Do it. Thank you both for joining the show. This is a little bit unconventional. I love that, Roland, that you're in the car right now in the middle of a debate. So, you know, I want it to be energetic, but I don't want any, I don't want any car crashes. So we'll.

[Roland Martin]

Don't worry about it. Don't worry. We good? I can do, I can do both.

[Tara Palmieri]

Got it. So we'll try to like, we'll try to like keep it controlled. One minute for answers, 30 seconds for rebuttals. And I'll try to keep on top of that so that you don't have to think about the actual time. But I think we'll flow through it pretty quickly just in time for you to make it to the dentist. So let's get going. I think that we should absolutely start with the ICE Minneapolis shooting. It is what everyone is talking about. And you know, I want to talk about what happened in Minneapolis on January 7th when Renee Nicole Goode, 37 year old US citizen was just shot and killed by an ICE agent, Jonathan Ross. And depending on which political persuasion you are, you believe something totally different happened. You look at it even from a camera angle differently. It's kind of something I feel like could only happen in America, the fact that there are so many different interpretations of what happened when, you know, this woman, Renee Nicole Goode was killed. So, Roland, I want to start with you on this one. Are ICE operations and the escalation we're seeing undermining civil liberties? What's the line between enforcement and intimidation?

[Roland Martin]

I think one of the first things we have to recognize that ice, their actions are also frankly, pissing off law enforcement. I've spent a lot of time talking to Noble National Organization of Black Law Enforcement executives and others and how they behave, how they operate. When we talk about law enforcement, we often talk about the need to de escalate, whereas their attitude is walk in massive escalation because Donald Trump made it perfectly clear. You've heard Stephen Miller say it, oh, they've got 100% immunity. If you look at deportations, if you look at deportations under President Obama and deportations under President Biden, there were significant deportations, but they didn't turn all this into a television show. And so when you look at the dragging of folks out of cars, the busting of windows, all of that is grossly unnecessary. And so what that then does it heightens Tension, it pisses people off. And even how they treat local law enforcement. We saw when they went into Chicago how there was suburban police chiefs were like, don't. Don't just treat us like. Like we're nothing. And that's why I think you saw the reaction from the Philadelphia County Sheriff and others. And so their behavior is also what drives the tension and the reaction from people. And that to me, I think what is shameful and unfortunate, that and absolutely unnecessary to do the actual job. If the job is about deportations, that's one thing, but it's really about creating this sort of 48 hours effect, which is why the officer was sitting here. How are you having. Actually, you're shooting on your phone with one hand and then you're trying to deal with a situation in the other. What's your priority right now?

[Tara Palmieri]

Okay, Laverne, what do you think? You have 30 seconds.

[Laverne Spicer]

So, you know, that's hard to do in 30 seconds. Very hard to do in 30 seconds. But actually it's easy all. No, it's not. But anyway, part of the problem why we have the O was the open borders when Biden allow over 200 and some million illegals to come into this country. First of all, that's part of the problem. The problem is with these illegals. They have not been vetted. We do not know who they are. They could be prisoners. They could have been gang bangers or whoever. Okay? So we do not know who these illus are because they have not been vetted. The next thing is what country can you go into and do whatever you want to do in that country? Because in a lot of those countries, when you try to go there and do what you want to do, you're going to get stoned. Are you going to get locked up? And the situation is not going to.

[Tara Palmieri]

But we're not. We're not the type of those. We aren't those types of countries. You know, we're not, you know, Saudi Arabia or, you know, the Middle east talking about.

[Laverne Spicer]

So with these officers, they have a job to do. Okay? If I offer to ask you to stop, you should stop. You have to obey the law, and it's just that simple. Okay? And when you watch these two type of videos, you don't even. They are showing it from so different, many angles. If he says stop, why would she take off driving toward the officer? Okay, so, yeah, obey the law. The officer says stop. Stop. She wasn't trying to stop. She was trying to run that man over.

[Tara Palmieri]

But that does she deserve to be Shot. I mean, we'll move on.

[Roland Martin]

Do you think if somebody is in.

[Laverne Spicer]

A car and they driving towards you, right, what you gonna do? You're gonna stand there and let them run you over? Are you going to defend.

[Tara Palmieri]

No, you move out of the way. You don't pull a gun out while they're driving and shoot up.

[Laverne Spicer]

It's on the line. So if my life is on my line, I'm going to protect myself, because self preservation is the first law of nature. So I'm going to do what I got to do to protect myself.

[Roland Martin]

Tara, I think this is a perfect example. If you listen to the question that you initially asked, and my response, and then what you just heard, you did not hear any condemnation of how ICE behaves in terms of how they operate. We have enough examples, a litany of examples of how they come in, frankly, crazed and deranged and how they behave, how they approach situations. And so you cannot ignore that reality. Now, here's the other thing. All this. Oh, illegals. And not proper vetting from their own data. Most of the people who they have arrested do not have criminal records. So if you. And this is why. Excuse me. One second, one second, one second. I didn't interrupt you. I didn't interrupt you.

[Laverne Spicer]

Go ahead.

[Roland Martin]

And so the point here. The point here is it's not a question. It's not a question of. It's not a question of do you have deportation actions? I said you had those things happening under Obama and Biden. The question is, how do you behave? And what we have is we have individuals who are operating as thugs. You have individuals who you don't even know if they're actually ICE officers. You have people now who are impersonating ICE officers. It happened in. In Texas. And so the behavior of ICE officers and Border Patrol has to be examined. And when they are allowed to operate with impunity and what they're doing, they are creating the tension when you should be operating with de escalation and not higher escalation. And that's what law enforcement executives I've talked to on the local, state, and federal level have said as well. Law enforcement is embarrassed by their actions. I'm not talking about protesters and activists. Actual law enforcement.

[Tara Palmieri]

Yeah. Laverne, what I want to ask you about the fact that there are so many raid. Sorry. There's so many, like, protests, and there's so much unrest in the streets in America among, you know, U.S. citizens. How much does the government bear responsibility for this backlash? How much?

[Laverne Spicer]

Government has a lot to do with it. Like I said, the open borders created a lot of this crisis, as we've seen throughout the United States, like Colorado, where people, thugs came when the illegals came in, took over those buildings, start charging those people rent, banned the landlords for coming in. And we see a lot of criminal activities taking place all throughout this country. It's different.

[Tara Palmieri]

Are you concerned about the methods that.

[Laverne Spicer]

I'm concerned about who those people are? I have a job to do. The police have a job to do. So if you don't want to obey the orders that when they say it, then so be it. You're going to deal with the consequences.

[Roland Martin]

Here's a perfect example about obey. It's about obey. We've seen ICE officers come up to people and demand their id. We just saw a video the other day. A guy says, my ID is in my house. I can go get it. They snatched the guy and say, no, we'll figure out who you are. When we get down to headquarters, he can look at the id. We've seen them how they have grabbed people, pull them out of cars who are legal citizens. And so this, again, we keep saying, is obey. Well, wait a minute. If she's saying that we have to obey the law, don't they also have to obey the law? We've seen examples of where ice. 1 second, 1 second, 1 second. We've seen where ice and Border Patrol have come up to people and made demands. Do you speak English where you're from? And folks have been legal citizens. And so they have also been breaking the law themselves. And so what owners do they have to obey the law? The problem is when you have the twice impeached, criminally convicted con man in chief, Donald Trump and Stephen Miller, who have said that you have 100% immunity, whatever you do will protect you, then they know, oh, we can act a fool, and they got our back. And that is the problem. ICE Border Patrol should also be examining their behavior. And as I have said repeatedly, other law enforcement executives are not happy with how they behave because they say, you put my officers in jeopardy. And we've heard that tar from police chiefs, from state police and other law enforcement.

[Tara Palmieri]

Laverne, are you concerned about the method ICE is using right now, these agents?

[Laverne Spicer]

Am I concerned about what I was.

[Tara Palmieri]

Born here about the methods that they're using?

[Laverne Spicer]

I was born and raised.

[Roland Martin]

She said the methods. She said the methods. The law enforcement.

[Laverne Spicer]

Scare her. So that's what's the problem. Okay, so what did you say, Tara?

[Tara Palmieri]

I said, are you concerned about the methods that they're using to pick people up, these ICE agents, how they're doing.

[Laverne Spicer]

What I am concerned about is the illegals that are here. I am concerned about that.

[Roland Martin]

Answer the question.

[Laverne Spicer]

And as I said, the agents. I'm talking to her. The agents have a job to do.

[Roland Martin]

Answer the question.

[Tara Palmieri]

You don't care how they do it.

[Roland Martin]

She said about.

[Tara Palmieri]

You don't care how they do it. Yeah, you don't care how they do it.

[Laverne Spicer]

Listen, when you dealing with people that don't want to listen, you got to do what you got to do.

[Roland Martin]

And see, right there, Tara, this is why this is so important right here. Because what you just heard. What you just heard, Tara, is exactly. Is exactly what African Americans have said in terms of how police have acted in certain neighborhoods. Again, as somebody who has talked to. I've been on right alongs with police officers in terms of how police officers operate. You may. Your job is to. Is to serve and protect. Hopefully that's the case, citizens. But what you cannot say, again, I'm going to take ICE and Border Patrol out. I will not say that the Houston Police Department and Chicago PD and LAPD can operate with impunity and how they behave and how they attack folk and bust out windows. You said tactics, and she wouldn't answer the question. And so you can be in support. You can be in support of Trump and ICE and still say the tactics that they are using are wrong and it is the wrong way to go about this. And again, we have evidence of significant deportations that took place under President Obama, under President Biden, that was not conducted in the same way as we're seeing right now. And in fact, the data shows there were more. One second that the data shows. Tara. The data shows there were more deportations under Biden and Obama than what Trump is doing. And the tactics were different. So what is your goal? To allow the cops, ICE to act any way they want to, or is it to have a meaningful, consistent, proper deportation procedure? That is the real issue.

[Tara Palmieri]

I just have a question for Laverne really quick. What standards should apply when a federal agent uses lethal force? Hey, want a cookie? Oh, I know you just ate, so you're craving something a little sweet. Besides, one cookie isn't going to kill you. How about half? Just a bite. Bite it. Bite it. Bite it.

[Roland Martin]

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[Tara Palmieri]

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[Roland Martin]

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[Tara Palmieri]

Results may vary on a civilian. And who do you think should investigate it if it's not done properly?

[Laverne Spicer]

If it's not investigated properly, then they have people in place to investigate it.

[Tara Palmieri]

They're not investigating the case of Raw.

[Laverne Spicer]

Something that's done incorrectly, then it should be investigated, but it needs to be investigated properly.

[Tara Palmieri]

What is correct? What is the standard?

[Laverne Spicer]

Show it from all angles. Don't just show it from one side so we can see, oh, what the agent did, what did the lady do, what did Ms. Good do you know? Because when they show. They're showing it from one angle. Show it from all angles so that we can see everything that took place doing that.

[Tara Palmieri]

I think we're still, we're seeing all the angles now. It's coming out. But they, you know, the Trump administration has decided not to investigate. But should there be a standard for when you can use lethal force on a civilian? And what should that standard be?

[Laverne Spicer]

I think if your life is in jeopardy, you should have the right to, to use legal force. If y', all, if you believe your life is in jeopardy, you have, you should be able to stand.

[Tara Palmieri]

So she, she should have had the right to shoot him back. It's what you're saying. Because I'm asking about a federal agent using lethal force.

[Laverne Spicer]

She was trying to run him over with the vehicle. Come on, make it, make this make sense. If she's driving and I'm trying to run somebody over, what the. I gotta shoot him for. For what purpose would I have to shoot them?

[Roland Martin]

Now, Tara, the question you just raised is a critical one. And again, the question was not answered. You asked about investigative procedures. Now, here's the thing, and this is why it's based upon numerous reports, why it's a problem inside of Trump administration when you have the shooting, when the initial reaction. I mean, I'm talking about the initial reaction of Ice Barbie herself, Department of Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem and Trump is to immediately say, this is what happened. This is it. These are the facts. When the video did not support that, especially, oh, they were stuck in the snow. They were trying to get out. It was nonsense. That's the problem. And so they came out with, oh, no investigation needed because we've already concluded what happened. So you don't have any trust in a real investigation. Now you have officials in the Department of Justice Civil Rights Division who have resigned because, oh, we're not going to be investigating when that's actually the agency that investigates. But this is no shock, because the first time Trump was there, you only had one patterns and practices investigation launched by his department of just his civil rights division of Justice Department. You had far more under President Biden. Trump has made it clear previous, his previous attorney generals, Attorneys general made it clear that we're not going to be investigating police. So there is no desire on the part of Trump, Stephen Miller, Kristi Noem, to investigate what happened here. So the public cannot trust this administration because they've made it clear they don't want an investigation. And Laverne just said, oh, there should be one. But we now know there's not going to be a real investigation because they've already determined the answer to it prior to even launching one. And that is when you lose trust in the federal government and trust in what they have to say.

[Laverne Spicer]

Well, I'm going say once again, the problem is Biden opened them borders and allowed all those people to come.

[Roland Martin]

You know what? That's interesting. That's very interesting. Tara.

[Laverne Spicer]

Can we put a queen. He's not wrong.

[Roland Martin]

I would love to put a pin right there. That's interesting. So when they were conducting. When, when, when, when Trump's folks were conducting raids on farms, what happened in Nebraska? What happened? One second. What happened in Nebraska? The Nebraska farmers were crying by saying, oh, my God, we don't have anybody here to work. What did the governor of Nebraska, a Republican, do, Tara? He called Trump and said, hey, hey, man, my state, we've lost already. We've lost 6% of our GDP. Can you, like, hold off on these raids now? What does that mean? That means that here you have the governor, Republican governor of a state, calling Trump by saying, because you guys are raiding these farms, we don't have any workers. So the problem when we talk about immigration, undocumented workers, folks crossing the border in this country, the problem is that you have big business that has benefited from this. And so if you truly want to deal with the issue of illegal immigration, undocumented workers, why is there such a resistance to penalizing the people who are in the employers? Trump literally said after the governor called, we're going to stop these actions. Stephen Miller then countered him. So what is it? So make up your mind, Republicans. Do you want, do you want to rid undocumented workers from working and get out of the country, or do you want to employ them? We are seeing in Texas, they're complaining about, we don't have any construction workers. The farms in Nebraska, the same thing in Indiana and other states. And so it's amazing how Republicans, never, ever want to call out conservatives, Business owners who employ undocumented workers, who are growing their businesses, who now are saying, oh, my God, we're going to shut down. So we now have a bailout, not only because of Trump's terrorists, because these same farmers are going, hey, Trump, you're taking all of our workers. And now taxpayers got to do a $12 billion bailout of. Bailout of farmers because of the same actions? No, no, it's because of the terrorists, but it's also because of. They've lost workers. And so, Republicans, y' all gotta make up your mind. Which one of these. Do you want them out of the country, or do you want them as cheap labor in your businesses?

[Laverne Spicer]

Yeah.

[Tara Palmieri]

What do you think about the fact that it seems like farmers and certain states, red states, seem to be able to, you know, they seem. It seems to only be targeted in big cities. These, these rates. It's not across the country.

[Laverne Spicer]

Okay, I said it once, I' ma say it again. Repug. Republicans, conservatives, we already said it. We want them to be vetted. We want to know who these people are that are coming into this country. We want them to come in legally. That's the reason why your Kristen all already said, we will give you a thousand dollars to leave this country and you can return. Why not set up the immigration policy? They say you can return, but they want nothing to be vetted. We want to know who these people are. That's the whole problem in a nutshell. Come in this country, become legally, make it a legal thing.

[Roland Martin]

Tara, you.

[Laverne Spicer]

You.

[Roland Martin]

I'm gonna answer your question.

[Tara Palmieri]

Never put forward any legislation to put. Yeah, the Republicans have never put forward any legislation to make that happen. They're trying to. Repeat. They're trying to.

[Laverne Spicer]

The Democrats.

[Tara Palmieri]

No, I mean, they. They haven't, but they're more open to it.

[Laverne Spicer]

Exactly, exactly. So you just can't throw that on the Republic.

[Tara Palmieri]

Republicans are in power right now, Laverne. They have the House. They have the Senate. They have the White House. They could do it now. They could do it.

[Roland Martin]

Tara, I'm gonna answer your question because I. You didn't get an answer right there, and it's really important. No, no, no. You said. You asked a very specific question. Why are these actions taking place in large cities and not elsewhere? So it's a perfect example. They're sending an additional thousand agents to Minneapolis. Do you know that there are far more undocumented workers in Texas, in Texas cities then in Minneapolis? Do you actually see the same energy? Do. Do you. And See, I'm from Texas, born and raised, still vote there. And the reality is Donald Trump, Stephen Miller, Kristi Noem, they will not use the same actions in Minneapolis, in Chicago, in Los Angeles. They're not going to do it in Texas. They're not going to do it in Dallas or El Paso. Paso. They're not going to do it in the Rio Grande. They're going to do it in Corpus Christi or in Houston. They're not. Because as Greg Abbott. So we know what's going on here. So what Laverne is saying is just simply nonsense. They don't. This is not about policy. This is about. We're going to target blue cities, blue states, and we're not going to target red states. We can show you undocumented workers in one second.

[Laverne Spicer]

That's in red states.

[Roland Martin]

We see it. We see it. Right, right now.

[Laverne Spicer]

Tara.

[Roland Martin]

Right now.

[Laverne Spicer]

Right now is being invaded.

[Roland Martin]

No, right now. This is a fact. Right now. The governor of Georgia has gone to South Korea three times in order to save that Hyundai plant because this MAGA woman called in an ICE rated facility that's going to cost them billions of dollars. That's a red state. Do you see ICE being deployed in rural Georgia? Do you see them being deployed in Tennessee? Do you see them? No, they're not. And so we know what this is all about. This is all about a MAGA agenda to say we're going to chokehold blue cities. We're going to leave red cities and red states alone. So we know what this is about. It's not about an actual national policy.

[Tara Palmieri]

Yeah. Laverne, what do you. What do you think about that? What do you think about the fact that it does seem like they're sending 600 more ICE agents to Minneapolis? I mean, after this happened. I mean, why aren't those 600 ICs and just going around the country? Because of what? I'm sorry.

[Laverne Spicer]

Because I didn't hear you. Has an invasion of Somalians. Ah, that's what I said. And I'm sure that would have a lot to do with it.

[Tara Palmieri]

What do you mean? A lot of them came here legally, the Somalians.

[Laverne Spicer]

Of course they did. And they're running the country under the leadership of Omar.

[Tara Palmieri]

But you can't.

[Laverne Spicer]

You can't talk about the $250 million scam that she gave to that organization that never provided any food to anybody.

[Tara Palmieri]

I understand that. That's. That is a.

[Laverne Spicer]

It's a huge. Because I have been feeding people for over 30 years of my life with the organization right Here in Miami, Florida. So for all the small organizations that are providing services to people throughout the United States, legally, they have never received even a million dollars. This is a real slap in the face to sit back and watch all the money that they have used in a fraudulent way, in fraudulent activities, including over 3 million that was given to daycare workers that are Somalians throughout Minnesota that never even opened up a daycare in the first place.

[Tara Palmieri]

We lost. We lost Roland there. But I do want to follow up with you. I do think that the fraud is obviously horrendous, and there needs to be an investigation into that in the same way that there should probably be. Not probably, there should be investigation.

[Laverne Spicer]

That's a real slap in the face because we, like my organization, we put in a lot of work. We never seen $10 million, $5 million. A lot of these small organizations bust their ass each and every day just to keep their doors open and to continue the work that they do throughout the community. And then to sit back. Okay. And of course, it has a lot to do with your elected officials, you know, that you go and talk to and ask them for support.

[Tara Palmieri]

I mean, there's a huge amount of. There's also a huge amount of fraud.

[Laverne Spicer]

In Miami, that type of support in the first place. But to watch what Congresswoman Omar has done in her community actually shows us how much funding that they actually have ability that they have available to help all these organizations, especially the ones that are servicing the veterans and the elderly population, because many veterans are homeless.

[Tara Palmieri]

Yeah. No, I think everyone would agree that the fraud that happened there is that.

[Laverne Spicer]

There'S over 2500 veterans homeless in Broward county that are sleeping in the streets.

[Roland Martin]

Oh, Tara, Tara, thank you so much, because Laverne just talked about.

[Laverne Spicer]

Wait, wait, wait. I didn't interrupt you.

[Roland Martin]

Well, first. Well, first of all.

[Laverne Spicer]

First.

[Roland Martin]

First of all, first of all, first of all, Laverne. First of all.

[Laverne Spicer]

Calm down.

[Roland Martin]

Laverne. Laverne. Wusa with the seniors that we see.

[Tara Palmieri]

Wait, wait, guys, hold up. No, hold on. I let you speak for over a minute and a half.

[Laverne Spicer]

How long you wanted to. Now seeing peoples. A lot of them seniors get five to ten dollars in food stamps. But yeah, what was we doing for the illegals around the United States? Chicago, 17,000. California, 30,000. That money should have been going to the American people. This country, first place. Especially with our senior population, many of them get less than $700.

[Roland Martin]

Ah, Tara, Tara, thank you so much.

[Tara Palmieri]

There's no record.

[Laverne Spicer]

Not interrupt you, Mar. No, no, no.

[Tara Palmieri]

But I have To. I have to. I am the moderator here, so I can give you two minutes. Okay. And I just want to correct. You said that it was illegal Somalians that were stealing money in Minnesota. There.

[Laverne Spicer]

What?

[Tara Palmieri]

There were people from Minnesota that were of this descent that were stealing from Feeding Our Future, but there's no evidence to prove that they were illegally there. And so that doesn't explain why you would send ICE agents.

[Roland Martin]

It was a white woman who led. It was a white woman led to fraud. Atari. His was interesting. This. I love this. I love this.

[Tara Palmieri]

Yeah.

[Roland Martin]

I love. I thank you so. Thank you so much, Laverne, for your concern about veterans and others and fraud, because I notice you. I notice you and others have been completely silent about the number of individuals that Donald Trump has pardoned or commuted who literally stole. Who literally hurt seniors, veterans, teachers, police officers. Not just that, the actions of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. One second. Don't interrupt. Don't interrupt. Then you don't interrupt. Don't interrupt. Then you have the actions of Russell Voight and the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau where they let companies off the hook who have hurt seniors, veterans, police officers, teachers, regular, ordinary citizens. So which is it? Do you only care about fraud? One second, one second, one second. Do you, Tara, this is the question. Does maga. I am talking, Laverne, and I'm raising a question. It's very simple. Does MAGA only.

[Tara Palmieri]

You guys, one minute.

[Roland Martin]

This is very simple.

[Tara Palmieri]

Each. And then we're going to wrap up.

[Roland Martin]

Does MAGA only care about fraud when it involves undocumented workers, or do they care about fraud when it's Republican donors who are able to buy themselves partner commutations and screw the American people and then let them off? The facts are the facts. Trump has pardoned a number of people who have stolen billions from regular, ordinary citizens. And MAGA has been extremely quiet. Laverne, do you oppose those pardons and computations? Yes or no?

[Tara Palmieri]

Well, here's the thing. I'm going to give this here, because we've already hit the 30 minute mark. Laverne, I'm going to give you the last minute of the show, and then we're going to be. We'll be done. Yeah, you get the last minute, but I'm gonna. I'm gonna hold it. Hold you to it, and. Sorry, sorry, Roland, but you won't be able to respond, but I'll give you the last minute. What do you think about the pardons, as Roland asked, of frauds? Yeah.

[Laverne Spicer]

What? I feel the same. Okay. How I feel about it. Let's talk about the ones that President Biden.

[Tara Palmieri]

No, no, Rowan, let her speak.

[Laverne Spicer]

What about the criminals that he pardoned? What about the criminals that he pardoned? Child molesters and everything else that he parted.

[Tara Palmieri]

We're the child molesters. That's for the child molesters that he.

[Laverne Spicer]

Child molesters and everything else that he pardoned.

[Tara Palmieri]

I don't, I don't believe that he pardoned a child master. He did pardon his son and Dr. Fauci, which was considered and his entire family, actually.

[Laverne Spicer]

That's more than enough.

[Tara Palmieri]

But I don't. I don't recall there are any child molesters. Thank you both. I thought this was very interesting. Okay, guys, thank you both for your time. Interesting to hear on America right now concerning immigration. So thank you both and I hope to have you back.

[Laverne Spicer]

And thank you, Martin, for coming in the room. Thank you.

[Roland Martin]

I ain't afraid to debate nobody boo.

[Laverne Spicer]

Me neither. Me neither.

[Tara Palmieri]

I appreciate that. I appreciate that on both of you. That was another episode of the Tara Palmari Show. I'd love to hear what you think about it. That is not a normal format for us, but I'd like to integrate more debates. Who do you think won? Who lost? Please leave your comments. I want to hear all about it. Or you can, of course, reach out to me on substack by going to tarapalmieri.com you can sign up for my newsletter, the Red Letter, become a paid subscriber to become a part of the Red Letter community and get all of my exclusive reporting straight to your inbox. If you like this show, please follow subscribe, Rate it Share it with all your friends. I want to thank my producer, Eric Abenate. I want to thank Abby Baker, who helped produce this, did research and the social media. Want to thank Adam Stewart on the graphics and Dan Rosen, my manager. See you again soon.