Inside Michael Cohen’s Pardon Play — and How It Could Help Trump on Appeal

Summary

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The Tara Palmeri Show

Episode: Inside Michael Cohen’s Pardon Play—and How It Could Help Trump on Appeal

Date: January 29, 2026
Host: Tara Palmeri

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Episode Overview

In this gripping episode, Tara Palmeri dives into the explosive revelations surrounding Michael Cohen (Donald Trump’s former fixer), his dealings related to the Jeffrey Epstein files, and a complicated backchannel effort allegedly seeking a pardon from Trump. The conversation unravels how these new disclosures could crucially help in Trump’s ongoing legal appeals, especially in the hush money case. Alongside real-time reporting and live fact-checking, Palmeri and her guests pull back the curtain on the persistent tangle of cover-up, power dynamics, and personal motivations at the highest levels of American politics.

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Key Discussion Points & Major Insights

1. Michael Cohen and the Epstein Files

[00:17–02:52, 07:21–13:55]

• A Surprise Discovery:
  Independent journalist Ellie Leonard uncovers a letter in the Epstein files suggesting Cohen, while incarcerated, had information linking Trump and Epstein he offered to prosecutors, potentially to reduce his sentence.
• Cohen’s Historical Denial:
  Tara recalls, “He’s always said that he knew nothing about Jeffrey Epstein, never heard a thing, there’s nothing to it.” ([00:35])
• Contradictory Claims:
  Under questioning, Cohen has admitted partial knowledge about one “Jane Doe” case—but his story appears inconsistent and unverifiable.
  Tara: “It was pretty clear from the beginning of our conversation when he said, ‘I know nothing, I know nothing.’ And then by the end... he cracked and admitted that he knew this one case, but it just didn’t make sense.” ([07:35])
• Concern for Victims:
  Both hosts express alarm over Cohen’s handling of alleged sexual assault cases and use of private investigators to track accusers:
  Tara: “I was also kind of disturbed, not kind of, very disturbed to hear that his way of handling it... was to send a private investigator...” ([08:25])
• Legal Implications:
  If Cohen held useful information for prosecutors, why does he now minimize or dismiss its significance? The contradiction raises red flags about his credibility.

2. Prosecutorial Pressure & Impact on Trump’s Appeal

[01:11–02:34, 09:20–13:55]

• Cohen’s New Allegation:
  Cohen now claims New York County DA Alvin Bragg and AG Letitia James pressured him to testify against Trump—making him the “star witness” in the hush money case.
• Timing & Legal Repercussions:
  Tara: “If it seems the star witness was pressured and coerced, [that] could throw the case out altogether. It’s a huge favor to Trump, right?” ([01:34])
• Strategy Suspicions:
  Tara and guests note the suspicious timing of Cohen's reversal of narrative, questioning whether Cohen deliberately switched sides to help himself legally (perhaps in exchange for future leniency).

3. Cohen's Alleged Pardon Play: The Backchannel Saga

[02:34–07:21, 13:55–25:15]

• Lev Parnas’ Account:
  Lev Parnas claims Cohen actively tried to seek a pardon from Trump via backchannels—including connections through controversial figures such as George Santos. Lev: “Michael even reached out to me...if I had any contacts to reach out to Trump to try to figure out what he could give Trump to be able to get a pardon.” ([14:09])
• Live Reporting & Real-Time Texting:
  Tara and the co-host demonstrate journalism in action on-mic, texting both Michael Cohen and George Santos to corroborate or debunk the story.
  Tara: “Hey, Michael, did you ask Jorge Santos?” ([17:33])
  George Santos: “I met Michael once...on election night at the studios of Channel 4 UK...No conversation ever happened.” ([22:24])
  Lev: “Lev has receipts. That’s gonna be your new one.” ([22:29])
• Parnas and Receipts:
  Lev insists he has text evidence proving the backchannel’s existence and points out the shifting stories from those involved.

4. Implications for Accountability & the Epstein Coverup

[07:21–13:55, 25:07–32:49]

• The Rot at the Top:
  Tara contextualizes why the Epstein saga haunts the public imagination:
  “The Epstein story has captivated the American public for so long...that sense that the rot goes all the way to the top.” ([11:53])
• Resistance to Testimony:
  Questions persist about why figures like Cohen and others named in the Epstein files (e.g., Steve Bannon, Michael Wolff) have not been compelled to give sworn testimony.
• Petition and Public Pressure:
  Tara supports efforts to petition Congress for full release of the Epstein files and deposition of all key players:
  “We know Steve Bannon, we know Michael Wolff, and we know Michael Cohen...They should be deposed right now while we’re waiting for the rest.” ([30:47])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Cohen’s Duplicity and Motives

• Tara Palmeri:
  “The man doth protest too much...I’m not sure if it’s real or if he made it up because he felt like he was under pressure and...knew that he couldn’t talk about the Katie Johnson case.” ([10:22])
• Tara Palmeri:
  “I would just like to know a docket number. I’m sure he has notes somewhere...it’s pretty critical.” ([11:30])
• Co-host:
  “Cohen is not stupid. He understands that if he tells on Trump, it’s like Sammy the Bull Gravano telling on Gotti...He would have to admit he was the one that did the things to Katie Johnson. He understands he would never...He would have to pay a heavy price.” ([26:34])

On Real-Time Reporting

• Co-host:
  “This is journalism in action. Wow.” ([18:55])
• Lev Parnas:
  “Lev always has the receipts.” ([22:29])
• Tara Palmeri:
  “Wow, let’s see how far they want to take...” ([32:05])

On Broader Accountability

• Tara Palmeri:
  “If there’s anyone who understands and knows that, it would be him of all people.” ([11:55])
• Co-host:
  “We know these people are named in the Epstein file. We know these people have information about Trump, Epstein, and a lot more than they’re talking. And they should be deposed right now...” ([30:47])

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Intro & Background on Cohen/Epstein File Discovery: 00:17–02:34
• Lev Parnas Describes Cohen’s Pardon Play: 13:55–17:07
• Live Texting with Cohen & Santos: 17:07–24:39
• Lev Insists on Having “Receipts”: 22:29–23:30
• Analysis of What Cohen’s Actions Mean for Trump: 25:07–27:41
• Why the Epstein Ties Remain Explosive: 29:40–32:05
• Wrap-Up & Call to Action on Full Disclosure: 32:05–32:49

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Conclusion

This episode captures an extraordinary in-the-moment investigation into Michael Cohen’s recent maneuvers and the explosive legal stakes for all involved. Palmeri and her guests blend dogged reporting, skepticism, and a dash of gallows humor as they chase leads in real time, revealing how old loyalties, personal ambitions, and the shadow of the Epstein scandal continue to collide in modern politics. For anyone interested in the nuts and bolts of accountability at the highest level, this is gripping inside reporting you won’t want to miss.

For the full story and ongoing updates, Palmeri encourages listeners to subscribe to her newsletter, The Red Letter, and support independent journalism.

Transcript

[Monday.com Advertiser]

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[Tara Palmeri]

Welcome back to the Tara Palmieri Show. A lot has happened since Ellie Leonard, the independent journalist, revealed a document inside of the Epstein filed deep inside that showed that Michael Cohen was dangling information about Jeffrey Epstein that he heard from President Trump. And he believed that that information could be so helpful to prosecutors that it could help reduce his sentence or help him in his cases. His lawyers got involved. Yeah, pretty crazy, right? And as you all remember from my interviews with Michael Cohen, he's always said that he knew nothing about Jeffrey Epstein, never heard a thing, there's nothing to it. The Jane Doe case that he worked on, it was all bullshit and it was dropped and this and that.

[Interviewer/Host]

He told me it was bullshit, take care of it. I said, okay, that was it. That was it. Bullshit. He said bullshit never happened.

[Tara Palmeri]

That was really quite revealing. But then get this. After that, Cohen says that the New York County District Attorney Alvin Bragg and, and the Attorney General Letitia James, pressured and coerced him into an anti Trump testimony in the hush money trial. If you remember, he was the star witness. Obviously this comes at a very good time for Trump.

[Interviewer/Host]

Right?

[Tara Palmeri]

This is super helpful because that case is out on appeal. If it's seems that the star witness was pressured and coerced, could throw the case out altogether. It's a huge favor to Trump, right? And then that's where the next wrinkle comes in. So Lev Parnas said that Cohen has been working back channels to get to Trump through the White House to personally request a pardon. And he even wanted to go through Jorge Santos to ask for advice on how to get one. Lev says he has receipts. It's a pretty wild interview.

[Interviewer/Host]

Lev even pulls up his phone.

[Tara Palmeri]

I do some texting to ask George Santos and, and Michael Cohen their version of events. But yeah, this has all happened in the past few weeks. And Midas Touch, which is the podcast network that was carrying Michael, they dropped him after all of this.

[Interviewer/Host]

So this is a pretty crazy interview.

[Tara Palmeri]

You get to see some live reporting. I'm trying to get down to the.

[Interviewer/Host]

Bottom of this all.

[Tara Palmeri]

I mean, Michael clearly has helped Trump and if he's looking for a pardon, this would probably be a way to get one. And he knows Trump better than anyone. Let's not forget he worked for him for many, many years as his fixer. So take a listen to this interview. I'm desperate to hear what you think.

[Co-host/Commentator]

Look at him, eating whatever he wants, never gaining a pound. Well, I'm stuck with the boring special and can't lose an ounce. How's your lunch, man? Amazing.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yours?

[Co-host/Commentator]

So good. Oh, I'm so happy for you. Cool, buddy.

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[Co-host/Commentator]

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[Co-host/Commentator]

Crazy day. Busy news day. We have a lot of breaking news going on right now. It's coming out straight from Davos. Let's give it a look, a few seconds. Let some more people join because. And folks, smash those hearts. We have an incredible special guest with us. We have Tara Palmeri. This is the person that has been a true supporter of the Epstein survivors. She's been on this case from the very beginning, for years, and she's been fighting for their story, for their truth to come out. And sometimes you never know where that thing might happen that pops the whole thing wide open. And then, you know, something crazy happened with a regular interview that she was doing with Michael Cohen and she asked a regular question. And from the regular question, folks, here we are. We are now in the middle of something, I think, that is very big. Something that is not just. This is not something where it's me or Tara or anybody against Michael Cohen. This has nothing to do with Michael Cohen. I want to make it very clear. This has to do with Epstein survivors. This has to do with justice for the Epstein survivors. And it also has to do with accountability for the criminals and the people that have been covering up and involved in this for a while. And one thing that I want to make sure also is that there's a lot of things going on back and forth. Michael Cohen is trying to make a claim that we are accusing him of something. Nobody, neither Tara, nor Zeb, nor myself, nor Ellie has ever accused Michael Cohen of anything except for not telling the false story. We deal on facts. The facts are, folks, that Michael Cohen's name is in the Epstein files. It's black and white. There's no question about it. And it's not just a name. It basically says a letter from his attorneys while he was incarcerated at the time of Epstein's arrest, basically saying to the prosecutors that Michael Cohen has information about Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein. That's black and white. It's in the Epstein files. So that's one thing. We need explanation. We need Michael Cohen to tell us what's going on there. Number two is Michael Cohen was working for Donald Trump as his fixer. And today I put out a video for those of you that some of you might have forgot who really Michael Cohen is. And it shows you a CNN outtake of Michael Cohen threatening a reporter, asking him a question, just like Tara about at that point the rape of Ivana Trump. And Michael Cohen, just like he unleashed on the reporter there, unleashed on terror. And you could see the true Michael Cohen, that nothing changed. And I put that out there today because Michael Cohen at that time in 2016 when there was a actual case filed by a minor, a 13 year old Katie Johnson, she was Jane Doe, she filed a case three days prior, X amount of days prior to the election, all of a sudden the case was dropped. Michael Cohen was his number one fixer at the time. Since then, Michael Cohen has been telling a story, one story he's been telling to Tara, he's been telling others about this other Jane Doe about another case. And even though Michael thinks that it somehow whitewashes him, but it's even worse because he's telling Tara and all of us basically that there was another child basically saying that she was raped by Donald Trump and that he basically sent private investigators to look to find her. So this is how this all started. I'm giving you a preamp. And this is how we are here today. So those are facts. We need those two things. If anything else on the record, Michael Cohen explaining exactly about this Jane Doe, which nobody else seems to find. There's no record of another Jane Doe, another case file. And this is, he needs to go on the record, and he needs to go on the record under oath explaining what it is he was going to tell the government about Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein to be able to get out of jail and get Rule 35. So Tara, I brought it up to you. Tell us what's going on.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah, no, I think it's interesting. I saw over the weekend that might at Touch decided they no longer want to produce a show with Michael Cohen on their network. And you know, it's, this isn't like a witch trial, it's just, you know, what do you know? What do you not know? I think it was pretty clear from the beginning of our conversation when he said, I know nothing, I know nothing. And then by the end of the conversation he cracked and admitted that he knew this one case, but it just didn't make sense. It didn't make sense because like you said, we haven't seen this doc, this, this case on the docket. And so I called around to other lawyers who were doing Epstein, you know, cases at the time to see if they were aware of this, because, you know, when there are new dockets on, on the file that involved Jane does, that mentioned Jeffrey Epstein, lawyers, they work together, you know, this, like they try to figure out if they can help each other on the case. And none of them knew about this case. I was also kind of disturbed, not kind of very disturbed to hear that his way of handling it when President Trump told him to handle it, was to send a private investigator, which is exactly why, you know, women file and men as Jane does or John does, to protect their identity so that private investigators don't harass them, don't find them, don't shame them, don't threaten their lives. And so a lot of these, these women who are, you know, sexually harassed and abused by Jeffrey Epstein, like he used, he used private investigators to, to harass them. One of them, Jane Doe 1, Courtney Wild, said she was nearly run off the road from them and she was a teenager at the time. So, yeah, it was really disturbing. He said in his interview with Joe Walsh that, that the only. That what he was offering, the, what he was offering the Feds was the Jane Doe.

[Co-host/Commentator]

Jane Doe. Great story.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah, exactly. But the thing is that the way he described it to me is he said it was bullshit. So like, how could that, how could that something, a story that's bullshit be valuable enough to the feds that it would trigger Title 35 and would reduce whatever sentence or whatever sentence that he had by providing information that was so useful to the feds that they could use it in another case. So I think ultimately, like, if that is true, if they were being honest with the sdny, which I would have to assume his lawyers were being honest with the sdny, then they have very valuable information that the public should know about. And I just found, found it to be very suspicious when, you know, Michael went on TV and was constantly saying Trump did nothing wrong with Epstein. I just know it. I just know it. And he didn't say why. There were no follow up questions. And I just felt like it needed a little bit more explaining because at the same time, when the Katie Johnson case came forward, he was also dealing with Stormy Daniels, Karen McDougal. These were the cases that he dealt with. So he definitely has had at least some context or knowledge of a very prominent case that was filed three times. With very big lawyers, like heavy hitters like Lisa Bloom behind her. And so, at the very least, he would have been aware of it. He's like, I know nothing. I never talked to Trump about Epstein. I know nothing. And it was just like, the man doth protest too much. And then we found out that there is some case, but it doesn't. I'm not sure if it's real or if he just made it up because he felt like he was under pressure and he felt like he had to say something, but knew that he couldn't talk about the Katie Johnson case. The video you posted this morning, though, of him, you know, screaming at a reporter. I mean, I've been on the other end of a call like that back when he was still working for Trump and I was a White House correspondent. So, you know, I think a lot of reporters understood that, like, it was his job to protect Trump at all costs, which is like something you never really forget when you're on the other end of a call like that, because it reminds you that, like, that that was his job. And so therefore, he probably likely had more information than he's saying. I would just like to know a docket number. I'm sure he has notes somewhere and could tell us a little bit more about this Jane Doe case. It's pretty critical. It's not like we're just talking about. Not that any rape by any man is right, but we're talking about, you know, protecting the most powerful man in the world at one time. And so it's kind. It's very critical. I mean, it's why the Epstein story has captivated the American public for so long is that sense that it has, that the rot goes all the way to the top. And so if there's anyone who understands and knows that, it would be him of all people. So I think that's what we're getting to now. It's Michael Fear for his life. Does Michael Fear. Does Michael see an end game where he switches sides again? I don't know, because I did think the timing was interesting when he'd said that Tish James pressured him into testifying against Trump. And obviously that testimony that, that, that, that could be used in an appeal, and Trump is trying to appeal that, that ruling, and so he can say star witness was pressured. Suddenly, suddenly, he's helping Trump. What does this mean for him and his future legal problems? Like, there's one thing I think we know about Michael is that he's got a lot of legal issues to deal with, and so being on the right side of the most powerful man in the world is not, you know, a bad thing. Now, I don't want to speak for him. I don't know exactly if he is being completely honest and says, yeah, it's just that he's been so all over the place. Like, even the prosecutors, in the email that they exchanged, the sdny, when Michael claimed to have been, they were like, but can we really trust him? Like, is he credible? And I don't know, it's, to me, like, I'm not going to say, like, who can be a, you know, an independent journalist or commentator or pundit, but it's just so all over the place. And, yeah, there's a lot. There's a lot of, like, what's going on there. And I don't really care if he attacks me personally, because this is very. It's kind of territory.

[Co-host/Commentator]

Yeah. But, you know, he shouldn't. Trump should. Nobody should have a right to attack and do the things the way, the tactics that he used. And he just shows you more and more of Trump and I. First of all, I want to say we have close to a thousand people, everybody, if you haven't yet, make sure to go subscribe to terror right now. She has been on this from the beginning. Between the work that she started, she's been on it. Then Ellie came in, found some more stuff, and this is what independent journalism. And she knows Michael going back, like, listen to the story. So you want to, especially as this story uncovers, make sure to give Tara a follow. But, Tara, let me tell you what I'm hearing and give you a little background on what's been going on and why. The timing, it's not coincidental because me and Michael have been going at it behind, behind the scenes, because I've been also hearing from my sources on the inside of the White House that Michael's been reaching out to Trump, that he's been trying to somehow. But Trump has been ignoring him. Michael doesn't really have a good chance because Michael even reached out to me and tried to figure out if I had any contacts that he could reach out to Trump and try to figure out what it is he could give Trump to be able to get a pardon. I remember having that conversation saying, michael, you're crazy.

[Interviewer/Host]

I said, when was this conversation? Do you mind me asking?

[Co-host/Commentator]

This was a few months ago. A few months ago. And I remember even saying, I think. I think it was right around the time when he wrote the first letter with him and Jesse Jackson about that that didn't get too much press. But if you remember, he wrote a letter about the pardon, that Biden didn't pardon him and that him and Jesse Jackson were going. And he was trying to get me on board with that. And I thought he was crazy. And I said to myself, michael, I have a better chance of getting pardoned by Trump without even speaking to him than you do. I remember us having that conversation. I said to him, you really. The Stormy Daniels case, it wasn't just a financial case. I mean, there's a lot of people, kids were involved. I said, you know, Melania, I said, you have zero chance. And he kept telling me, no, if I find the right thing, what to call. And I could get to him, it will be, you know, I could get to him. And when the. When. When the. The paperwork dropped, when we fight, because first we went at. Me and Michael got into this whole thing after what happened with you, what happened with Zeb, with Ellie, we started going back and forth. He got my son involved, the Midas guys. We had this whole big outburst and. But we didn't have a smoking gun until Ellie's subscriber found that, you know, memo in the Epstein files that had that conversation about Michael actually having information about, you know, Epstein, Trump. And when confronted, like, you know, everything else, Michael tried to squeeze a lot of it, squirm out of it. I at the time, was confronting him behind the scenes, telling him, listen, I know you're trying to get a pardon and use it. And that's when basically, literally that day, he wrote the letter about Tish James and about. Or a few days later, I don't remember the exact days or the timing, but he wrote the letter. And one of the people that I'm hearing he was dealing with, talking through is George Santos, where he was looking out to get help. So I don't know if George Santos was the actual guy.

[Interviewer/Host]

Wow. So he was asking George Santos for advice on how to get a pardon from Trump?

[Monday.com Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

Pretty amazing.

[Co-host/Commentator]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

You are listening. I mean, I've almost got a text him about this. Do you mind.

[Co-host/Commentator]

Asking. Go ahead, ask him. Ask him. Yeah, what's go. Like, just ask him like this. What's your relationship with George Santos?

[Interviewer/Host]

I mean, that is crazy. Hey, Michael, did you ask Jorge Santos?

[Co-host/Commentator]

No, he's going to respond. Just ask him what his relationship with your Santos. First give him a little because like this, he'll just say, you know, no, you know what I'm saying to you?

[Interviewer/Host]

What is your rel. Okay, I'll ask Him.

[Co-host/Commentator]

Yeah, let's see how he responds to that.

[Interviewer/Host]

Hold on. You know what's even. Let me ask George.

[Co-host/Commentator]

Yeah. Say, hey, George, do you know.

[Interviewer/Host]

Do you have journalism in action?

[Co-host/Commentator]

This is question.

[Interviewer/Host]

Quick question. Did Michael Cohen. Oh, my God. This is insane. This is how politics works in the Trump era, right?

[Co-host/Commentator]

Yeah. Say the Michael Cohen ever discuss pardons with you or anything now prior to or before you go to prison or anything somehow like that? Like posted pardons?

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah. Wow. Sorry, guys. I just want to, like, figure this.

[Co-host/Commentator]

One out, because this is not yet. We don't have a confirmation. We're trying to confirm it. This is what we don't know. We're trying to. Yeah, like, I heard. That's what I said. We don't know for a fact if George is the person, but let's see. Maybe right here live. That would be awesome. Yeah, that would be awesome.

[Interviewer/Host]

Journalism in action. Wow.

[Co-host/Commentator]

But, yeah, so he basically is. Tried to do. Backfired big time. Trump responded, obviously, but he didn't get the response wanted. And obviously, I think he put himself a little bit in peril with that, because for him to go out right now, and I know Trump's gonna use it anyway. I heard Trump's already, you know, basically trying to put, you know, get. Go after Letitia James and maybe somehow use it and also use it, like you said, for his appeal that he has going on to get those cases dismissed. But it also puts Michael in a kind of a jam because then he would have had to have perjured himself on the stand if he would have actually did those things again. I spoke to. I don't know. I'm not a lawyer, but it gets very, very complicated about saying. Especially after there's so much video of him coming out and praising Letitia James and Alvin Bragg of how great that work was and how incredible. You know what? You want me to text George also while we're doing this?

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah, that's the question mark. I'll just say. See what George says.

[Co-host/Commentator]

Okay, let me see.

[Interviewer/Host]

This is amazing. Wow.

[Co-host/Commentator]

Yeah. Hold on a second.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah, no, he said, I want to make sure you have the right person. Oh, wait, am I texting with. Shoot.

[Co-host/Commentator]

I got.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah. Yes. Yes. I. Yes, I heard he. He said. Lol. Yes. I heard he was asking you for advice on how to get a pardon from Trump, which his response makes me think.

[Co-host/Commentator]

I'm telling you.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah. Or who knows, Maybe I'll put them on a group text like you said.

[Co-host/Commentator]

Wow, that was great, Tara. I love it, man. That's.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah. This Guy still says we're watching. Yeah, yeah. Just.

[Co-host/Commentator]

Yeah. Hey, guys, you know what? We'll have George on here. Believe me, we don't play games.

[Interviewer/Host]

He said it's bad info.

[Co-host/Commentator]

Yeah, okay. Yeah, okay, George. I'll give George a call also.

[Interviewer/Host]

I mean, if you get. If you find the. If you get.

[Co-host/Commentator]

No, no. Yeah, I'm gonna push it, especially if he. His first response to you was lol. And then. Yeah, okay, George.

[Interviewer/Host]

The wrong person. Yeah. He said, I met Michael once, and it was on election night at the studios of Channel 4 UK. We do election night coverage in 2024. Okay.

[Co-host/Commentator]

Oh, he's. Oh, now he's playing a game with you now. Tell him. Actually, I heard that I have sources saying that Lev introduced the two of you. That you, Lev and Michael Cohen. Actually, that Lev introduced. I have a source that says that Lev is.

[Interviewer/Host]

Did I just say. Lev said that he introduced you to.

[Co-host/Commentator]

Oh, sorry.

[Interviewer/Host]

Just say it.

[Co-host/Commentator]

Yeah, go. Ye.

[Interviewer/Host]

That he introduced you to, I think.

[Co-host/Commentator]

Yeah, go ahead. Go for it. Yeah. Why play games?

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah. Oh, let's see what he says. How George Santos, Michael Con. Walk into a bar. Let's start. Talk. Talk. Pardons. He said no conversation ever happened. Okay.

[Co-host/Commentator]

Okay. Watch this. Okay, so Lev always has the receipts.

[Interviewer/Host]

Lev remembers. Lev has receipts. That's gonna be your new one.

[Co-host/Commentator]

Yeah. Hold on a second, George.

[Interviewer/Host]

Lisa goes. The real sleuths of Substack. This is hilarious. Safe to say I spent the last year focused on myself.

[Co-host/Commentator]

Oh, now he's deceiving.

[Interviewer/Host]

Well, he was in prison, so it's hard to. With my mountain of stuff. That's true.

[Co-host/Commentator]

Okay.

[Interviewer/Host]

This is amazing.

[Co-host/Commentator]

Okay, so. So, guys, you know how love has the proof? December 2nd. February 5th.

[Interviewer/Host]

Oh, George said, if I knew how to get a pardon, I would have gotten one for myself, because you just got to come.

[Co-host/Commentator]

Tara, Tara, read. Who. Who's who? George Santos and whose number I sent them on what day?

[Interviewer/Host]

Go ahead, George. Wow. Okay. Lev has receipts. Oh, my God.

[Co-host/Commentator]

George has gotten into some shit. Stupid George.

[Interviewer/Host]

Well, he has a. He. He might be playing on the technicality. He did get a commutation, not a pardon.

[Co-host/Commentator]

We. Hey, we just broke some news, guys. This is serious stuff. George Santos is just lied to.

[Interviewer/Host]

What was his response? Like when you said. When you said to Michael, like, you were like, hey.

[Co-host/Commentator]

George. George texted me. What are you doing? I thought you and Michael are friends. Oh, let me show you that text.

[Interviewer/Host]

Oh, my God.

[Co-host/Commentator]

If George wants to go that route, you know, we. You know, guys, I never play games.

[Interviewer/Host]

I know.

[Co-host/Commentator]

Tara's Like, I know.

[Interviewer/Host]

Why do I even bother not. He said not denying having it. I just never had the interactions. He's leading you to believe I did. So he says he has your info, the info. He just didn't have any interactions with him.

[Co-host/Commentator]

He could tell. Tell George that you're a good. You're a good talker, George. Say, can I have a. Can I have you? Oh, oh, say, can I have you and Love on at the same time? Let's do an interview.

[Interviewer/Host]

Come on. Substack now.

[Co-host/Commentator]

Would you like say love invite is inviting you on with. With him right now.

[Interviewer/Host]

Love wants to have you on. Wants to have you on this live. Spread the word, kids. We might be getting hit those hearts.

[Co-host/Commentator]

We might get George.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah.

[Co-host/Commentator]

I guarantee you he's texting Michael right now. He's like, oh, crazy. Yeah. You know what I understand is why do they lie? Like, he could have just said, yeah, I spoke to Michael and that would have been the end of it. But why lie? Like, why turn around, say, no, I don't. Now all of a sudden, first he went from he's never spoken to Michael. Now he's gone to I've gotten the information, but I didn't use it.

[Interviewer/Host]

It. He said that he's not sure why you're looping him into this, but everyone seems to want to backtrack their trashing of potus. He said he's not going to come on the show, so. Got it.

[Co-host/Commentator]

Okay. We tell him we. We understood.

[Interviewer/Host]

Understood.

[Co-host/Commentator]

Somebody said he'll be on live tomorrow with Michael Cohen. Guys, how could we ever compete with.

[Interviewer/Host]

That programming that would never. No.

[Co-host/Commentator]

Never know that. This was very unexpected. We just went on some, you know, in for inside. You know, sources told us this is what's going on. And we did some journalism work right here. Tara called and confronted them. And you saw live what happened.

[Interviewer/Host]

Well, yeah, we might get the answers from Michael later today if I do hear from him.

[Co-host/Commentator]

Yeah. You know, or post.

[Interviewer/Host]

Okay.

[Co-host/Commentator]

Yeah. Stay tuned. Definitely make sure you subscribe, because if there's, you know, we're going to be breaking it. Me and Tara will go live from wherever we are. But you know what? Why. What's. What has Donald Trump and Michael Cohen. Why this is so such a big situation, Tara, and why Cohen is. Has a big. Cohen would have told about Trump. What people don't understand is Cohen is not stupid. He understands that if he tells on Trump, it's like Sammy the Bull Gravano telling Gotti. Yes. Did he get Gotti in prison? Did he get less Time off. But everybody still understood. Sammy, the builder of Grah killed 19 people. He was a nasty human being. Same thing here. He would have to admit that he was the one that did the things to Katie Johnson. He would have to admit that he was the one that whatever it was, paid her off, threatened her, talk to her. He would have to be the one. And he understands he would never. Yes, that would get Donald Trump in whatever, in trouble, whatever. But he also would have to pay a heavy price. And maybe with his family, maybe with the world, whatever it is, but that is what. That's the secret that's holding them together.

[Interviewer/Host]

I understand. Why go out and talk about Epstein if, you know, you're so tied to it, that.

[Co-host/Commentator]

Thank you. Thank you so much. Because that's that narcissist. That's that narcissistical, like, you know, like, compulsion. Yeah. Like. And then also it's like, you know, people like that, the reason why they do it is because they're con artists. And it's you. Because I've been a lot of con artists. You know, you guys know my story. I've been around some of the biggest con artists and the biggest crooks and mafia bosses all over the world. And that's part of the theory, because he pushes something onto you, which he never thinks you could prove. Trump does the same thing if you know this a lot of time, because, like, he's pushing out, because he would never. He never thought that that one piece of paper would be. Would come out in this dump of the FC, especially with 1%. Just think about the chances out of that whole dump.

[Interviewer/Host]

Trump.

[Co-host/Commentator]

We're getting a Michael Cohen letter about Epstein and Trump. What are the chances of that, Tara? That's like getting a needle in a haystack. So he didn't think. And he knew. The other thing is he knew that Trump would never allow anything to come out that would have his stuff in it. So he assumed it's either getting scrubbed, he assumed it's either gonna get blacked out, or he assumed it's gonna get destroyed. Because Trump would never allow Michael Cohen stuff. Because the other thing I heard from some insiders, Tara, which you can also look into, maybe to some of your contacts and the DOJ is that there was another proffer. And that's why we're looking into Ellie's looking into the dumps. And then we see. And that's why, coincidentally, I don't believe, all of a sudden they came out, said they're not giving any more. Remember, right after two Hours. This happened right after Michael wrote that letter, by the way. So what I want to say to you is what I'm hearing is that after they came back and said to him, no, they're not listening to him, his attorneys went back to Michael and Michael gave them a little bit more of a proffer. So then the attorneys came back with a proffer, a little, you know, to, to start the conversation. So there was something that was said and is on paper about you.

[Interviewer/Host]

Have you've heard that?

[Co-host/Commentator]

That's what I've heard. That's why that I spoke to Ellie. That's why. That's what I'm saying. I'm telling everybody, check your sources. What I'm hearing is there was a follow up conversation that. That wasn't the end to that because Michael was trying very hard and I have proof that he continued to try to get the.

[Interviewer/Host]

It ended up in the Epstein files. Right.

[Co-host/Commentator]

Anything following should be right. It should be there. And that's why I think they stopped it. I think they were. I think Trump. I think they're looking for that follow up. Because that's the link. Because that's the whole link. And I don't have the smoking gun on that. But this is where I'm hearing and what I'm looking into. That's why, folks, the biggest thing you could do to help us with what we're doing is we have a petition out there right now. This petition is to be able to. Right now, yes. Congress should be able to walk and chew gum at the same time while they're out there fighting to be able to release all the Epstein files, which we want. Everything. But while we have this 1%, we know for a fact that there's at least three people in there that are considerably named besides Les Wexner and others that we know are just irregulars. We know Steve Bannon, we know Michael Wolff and we know Michael Cohen. Now we know these people are named in the Epstein file. We know these people have information about Trump, Epstein and a lot more than they're talking. And they should be right now being deposed. They should be deposed right now while we're waiting for the rest. Have to wait for everything and then get this whole dump of convulsion. We can walk and choose. Gun. Do you agree with me, Tara?

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah, no, I agree. I totally agree. I don't. I think, I don't know why we haven't heard these tapes that, that these men are holding onto. I think they'd be really valuable. Not just. I think that they're trying to like, profit off the tapes. That's the problem.

[Co-host/Commentator]

Sick.

[Interviewer/Host]

The other thing I was think. So just to be clear, Michael asked you for George's number and you said to George, here's Michael's number.

[Co-host/Commentator]

I don't remember exactly who's. I'll check my texts, but I know put you this way. The three of us spoke together. They're full of shit. Like, I mean, we've spoken like, I think George or Michael even gave me Matt Gaetz's new number at some point when I wanted to go, believe me, if they're gonna go that route, we'll blow em. I got text messages. You know how we don't play games, Terrence. So, like, let's see how this plays out. Let's see where they want to, you know, I'm saying to you. And we'll see how far they want to take.

[Interviewer/Host]

Wow, that's crazy.

[Co-host/Commentator]

You know what I'm saying? Hey, Tara, I want to. First of all, thank you so much. I know you're busy, you're traveling. I know you got a lot going on, but we're going to keep on it. This is just the beginning, folks. Please, if you haven't yet, make sure. Go follow Tara Palmeri. Subscribe. Tara is on this and if you can, like I say, this is independent journalism. We don't have corporate media, so pay subscribers goes a long way and allows us to do what we do. So, Tara, thank you so much. Have a great night. I'll talk to you later.

[Interviewer/Host]

Bye.

[Tara Palmeri]

That was another episode of the Tower of Palmari Show. What a wild one, right? I hope you leave some comments, questions. I. I'm still in shock from it all. I want to thank you all for tuning in and obviously follow like subscribe. Share this with all of your friends.

[Interviewer/Host]

Go.

[Tara Palmeri]

Go to tarapaumieri.com Sign up for my newsletter, the Red Letter. It's where you can get all of my exclusive reporting straight to your inbox. You could have actually watched this go down live if you are a subscriber to the Red Letter. And it was. It was quite something, I've got to say. And yeah, it's just. And also it's a way to support my independent journalism. I want to thank my producer, Eric Einate. I want to thank Abby Baker, who does my social media and research. I want to thank Dan Rosenway, manager, and Adam Stewart with these epic graphics. See you again soon.

[Interviewer/Host]

This is a Monday.com ad, the same Monday.com designed for every team. The same Monday.com with built in AI scaling your work from day one. The samemonday.com with an easy and intuitive setup. Go to Monday.com and try it for free.