Antonia Hylton (3:41)

Ken, we just got a new statement from Pam Bondi, so I want to read some of it. Over the next month, I will be working tirelessly to transition the Office of Attorney General to the amazing Todd Blanche before moving to, to an important private sector role I am thrilled about and where I will continue fighting for President Trump in this administration. That's just the first of a couple short paragraphs, Tara, I imagine today, or actually I don't have to imagine because we just had Stacey Williams on in the last hour. But for many of the victims, today must be a bit hard. While they may be grateful to hear that Pam Bondi, someone who they have described as basically refusing to meet with them, look them in the eye, famously, during a hearing, that the person who has taken her job is the guy who flew down to talk with Ghislaine Maxwell. And then the main thing, at least from many of their points of view that came out of that, was just that Ghislaine Maxwell got better digs and not that they got any more justice and accountability. What kinds of conversations are you having with the network, the community of survivors today?

Mochi Health Advertiser (4:49)

Yeah, they're really disappointed, but I Mean, they're also equally angry at Pam Bondi. They felt that she never took them seriously. Like you said, she wouldn't even turn around to acknowledge them. When they were standing behind her during a congressional hearing and they were standing up behind her, she just wouldn't even acknowledge it. Said that she didn't want to get into the gutter with the congresswoman. That was Pramila Jayapal who was directing the questions at them. There was a really, really heartbreaking moment for me when I heard from one of the survivors. This was shortly after the first batch of Epstein files were released. And this survivor was really hoping to meet with Pam Bondi. And she said that they had a meeting in the books and actually asked me, told me this off the record at the time because she felt that if I had reported on it that it might cause the meeting to be canceled. That's how much hope she was gripping onto and how desperately she felt. If she could only see Pam Bondi face to face, she could reason with her, woman to woman, and explain why this justice is so important for them and the other survivors. After decades of being ignored by various justice departments led by men, I mean, this was the first woman to lead a Justice Department. And they really hoped that they could break through. And then at the last minute, that meeting was canceled by Pam Bondi.

Antonia Hylton (6:13)

Well, this is woman to lead the Justice Department. But also, as you know, Tara, earlier in her career, she had made prosecuting people who abused children, sex offenders as a major part of her identity. I mean, another version of Pam Bondi. When she was working in Florida, there were some people who thought that this might be something she might take very seriously. Barb, I want your thoughts on what comes next here. Because of course, Democrats are trying to make clear that they still still expect her to show up in just a matter of days to testify under oath. But our colleague Michael Schnell is reporting that, at least from Chairman Comer at Oversight, that from a spokesperson that she's been in touch with. They're re reviewing that. Basically looking to see if her coming before lawmakers is still going to be necessary. In your view, will she still need to show up and testify under oath?

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Barb McQuaid (7:39)

Well, it seems that until Congress gets answers to its questions, somebody needs to come and testify under oath. Perhaps Todd, Todd Blanche is a better person to come and testify under oath if he's going to be leading the department. But I think many of the questions that remain unanswered relate to the Epstein files, the redactions, the failure to follow up on investigations, the failure to pursue investigations against people identified in those files. And so testimony under oath, I think is important from a high level official at the Justice Department. But it may be that if I think, I think if I were a member of Congress thinking about that, I might prefer to make it Todd Blanch. He is going forward, going to be the leader at the Justice Department, at least in the short term. And he played a key role in overseeing the production and the redaction of the Epstein files. And so I think at this point I might prefer to go after Blanche, who's still got some skin in the game, as opposed to Bondi, who might be a convenient person for the justice for the Trump administration to throw under the bus.

Antonia Hylton (8:43)

David, we know from Ashley Parker, who I had on in the last hour, that Blanche is hoping that this interim job becomes a permanent job. He'd like to stay in the role. She even says that at times he's basically felt like he was always a better fit for it than Bondi was. But then we also know from the reporting that Lee Zeldin thinks he's going to be up for the job. Can you tell us a bit about how they're viewed among conservatives and if you have a position on who's most likely to come out as the actual Trump pick here?

Unspecified Casual Speaker (9:15)

You know, that's a really good question. I would say Todd Blanch, his star has risen in MAGA over the course of the last 12 months. He's been the Trump enforcer. He has been the very tip of the spear. He's somebody who's kind of taken part of the lead and politicizing the Department of Justice. And so this is a guy who I don't think that anyone in MAGA would question his commitment to doing exactly what Trump tells him to. Now, I don't think he'll have any more success than Pam Bondi had because, you know, as we said earlier, she was running up against the justice system. She was running up against federal judges, she was running up against grand juries. I don't think Todd Blanche will have better success. Lee Zeldin, I would say, is more universally respected amongst Republicans than, say, a Todd Blanche. Todd Blanche might be more narrow caste maga. I think Lee Zeldin is somebody who has wider, wider degree of respect within Republican circles. But both of them are going to face the same issue. They're going to face unreasonable demands from an unreasonable boss that they cannot possibly deliver because they do not control the judiciary, they do not control juries. And so we're just going to see the cycling, this escalating discontent and cycling as even people like Upam Bondi, who will abandon all of the DOJ standards for Trump, still cannot bend federal judges to their will. And that's the firewall. That's the firewall right now that's frustrating Trump. And no attorney general can do a darn thing about that.

Antonia Hylton (10:48)

Well, David, no attorney general can do a thing about the juries, the judges, the facts in any one of these cases. But do you think either, at least just to take these two, Blanche and Zeldin, do you think either of them have the ability to build a new type of relationship with the Epstein survivors, to take a different approach, to look them in the eye, to show more empathy than we've seen from this doj?

Unspecified Casual Speaker (11:14)

Maybe. But then anytime you're doing that, you're running headlong against Donald Trump because it's very clear that Donald Trump wants all of this Epstein stuff completely, totally behind him. And so any empathy you show towards victims, any sort of consideration you give them is giving more oxygen to something that Donald Trump quite obviously just wants to go away. And so this is one of those very tiny few areas where MAGA and Trumpism diverge, because MAGA has traditionally been super alarmed and concerned about Epstein Trump, not so much because of his obvious entanglements. And so here's where Trumpism departs from maga. And Trump is the head of the executive branch. And I don't think Blanche or zeldin will have 1 millimeter of room to maneuver on the Epstein case without Trump watching them like a hawk.

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