Inside Washington’s Shutdown Games

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Tara Palmeri Show

Episode: Inside Washington’s Shutdown Games

Date: October 28, 2025
Host: Tara Palmeri

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Overview

In this episode, Tara Palmeri dissects the ongoing government shutdown—now at nearly four weeks—exploring the entrenched dysfunction in Washington and the political gamesmanship between Republicans and Democrats. The episode goes beyond headlines, exposing how real Americans are suffering as both parties treat the shutdown as leverage over issues like SNAP benefits and Obamacare subsidies. The podcast features Palmeri’s solo analysis, her reporting from inside Capitol Hill, and extended highlights from her panel appearance on CNN’s “Abby Phillip Tonight," joined by political commentators Anna Kasparian, Harrison Fields, Neera Tanden, and Joe Borelli.

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Key Discussion Points

1. Government Shutdown: Political Games at the Expense of Americans

• Entrenched Dysfunction: Both parties are fully “dug in,” more concerned with who is “winning” and poll numbers than with the everyday people affected by the shutdown.
• Impact on SNAP Benefits: 42 million Americans (1 in 8) depend on the SNAP (food stamps) program, receiving $188 a month. As the shutdown nears a month, these benefits are endangered.
  • “As soon as Saturday, they may not have it. And this is because the Republicans want to make this as painful as possible for Democrats.” (Tara Palmeri, 02:05)
• Obamacare Subsidies Leverage: Democrats are holding out for a renewal of Obamacare (ACA) subsidies. Without resolution, people may see up to a 30% jump—$900/month—in health insurance premiums starting Nov 1.
  • “They’re hoping that will put political pressure on Republicans to come to the table…” (Tara Palmeri, 04:10)
• Political Calculus: Both sides are using vulnerable Americans as pawns—Republicans want to force Democrats to cave by making hardship visible; Democrats hope public pain from lost subsidies will force the GOP’s hand.
• Shutdown Tactics: House Speaker Mike Johnson has closed the House, keeping members away from Washington to prevent any cross-party negotiations—notably yielding power to Trump’s demands.
  • “The pain register is about to hit level 10.” (Mike Johnson via Palmeri, 06:00)

2. Inside the Numbers: Pressure and Polls

• Palmeri cites a July memo from Trump pollster Tony Fabrizio, warning Republicans could lose 10-15% in races if Obamacare subsidies aren’t renewed.
• GOP sources indicate willingness to let the shutdown drag on, predicting internal Democratic pressure will mount once ACA subsidies expire.
  • “Republicans are pretty content to let this thing ride out and make the Democrats eventually cave.” (Palmeri quoting GOP Senate source, 09:35)

3. Real-Life Harm and the Lack of an “Off Ramp”

• Palmeri warns of real consequences: delayed flights, unpaid federal workers, looming hunger, and widespread uncertainty.
• Federal workers’ unions may soon pressure Democrats to strike a deal.
• “They don’t see an off ramp in sight. I’ve never seen anything quite like it.” (Palmeri, 08:45)

4. On Political Panel: The Shutdown on CNN (12:05–25:41)

• Partisan Blame Game: The panel mirrors the gridlock in D.C.—each side blames the other for the shutdown; both refuse to move without concessions on core demands (ACA subsidies or government funding).
  • “All Republicans want is for Democrats to do what Democrats have demanded others do... vote for clean CRs.” (Anna Kasparian, 14:41)
  • “Both sides are playing politics. Very clear.” (Joe Borelli, 20:09)
• SNAP Funding Options: Both the Trump administration and Democrats have previously used or could use emergency funds to cover benefits, but are presently refusing for tactical reasons.
  • “In 2018, during Trump’s shutdown, he used emergency funds to pay for food stamps. He could do that right now, but he’s choosing not to because this is all about political games.” (Tara Palmeri, 17:54)
  • “The administration can look at many ways to solve this problem... But the one thing...” (Harrison Fields, 19:46)
• Will It End—and How? Consensus emerges that Trump will eventually concede on ACA subsidies because it affects voters in red states, but not before both parties inflict maximum pain.
  • “He will end up giving the concession of the subsidies. He’s already said it. He knows he said it.” (Tara Palmeri, 21:34)

5. Gavin Newsom’s Podcast Appearance & Democratic Vulnerabilities (26:14–37:15)

• Newsom is criticized for attempting to present a “cool” persona on a popular podcast; discussion follows about authenticity, Democratic “pandering,” and policies failing to address affordability and quality of life.
  • “He spends too much time trying to be cool and look cool. Remember during COVID, he still had to look cool at French Laundry, having his dinner with his friends.” (Anna Kasparian, 34:38)
• Debates on whether Newsom’s reputation can translate nationally and his challenges in winning over less coastal, more moderate Democrats.

6. Populism, AOC, Bernie Sanders, and New York’s Socialist Momentum (38:09–44:18)

• The rise of “populist socialist” candidates like Zoran Mamdani in New York City draws massive crowds and early voter turnout, signaling an energized base.
  • “He is a rock star next to AOC and Bernie Sanders. And I don’t think it’s because he has the word socialist in front of his name. I think it’s because it’s the populist message... Republics have a problem.” (Palmeri, 08:00 and reiterated, 42:20)
• The establishment’s embrace of leftist candidates worries some panelists who fear it may cost Democrats in broader national races.

7. Presidential Health and Transparency (46:16–51:14)

• President Trump’s recent MRI and health concerns stir debate about transparency from the White House; parallels drawn to previous administrations’ lack of candor.
  • “He has a doctor that’s always happy to say that his health is amazing. And we know that there’s no transparency... Presidents feel like their health is connected to their power.” (Palmeri, 47:03)
  • “The idea that an MRI is part of a standard physical is not true. It’s a test that is done when they are checking for something.” (Abby Phillip, 51:14)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Dysfunction:
  “Both sides are completely dug in. They have forgotten that there are real American people paying the price for this political brinkmanship.”
  — Tara Palmeri, 00:48

• On Political Gamesmanship:
  “We are going to turn the pain register up to level 10.”
  — Speaker Mike Johnson (via Tara Palmeri), 06:00

• On SNAP and ACA Leverage:
  “Who closed the government? The Democrats. Who closed it?”
  — Harrison Fields, 17:41
  “In 2018... Trump used emergency funds to pay for food stamps. He could do that right now, but he’s choosing not to because this is all about political games.”
  — Tara Palmeri, 17:54

• On Panel Frustration:
  “If you’re going to do it anyway, why not just do it?”
  — Abby Phillip, 23:22
  “Republicans just don’t really care about whether the government is funded. We’re in very weird times.”
  — Tara Palmeri, 09:00

• On Populism:
  “There was always a crossover between the Bernie voters and the Trump voters. The populist message, it rings true. Doesn’t matter who’s saying it.”
  — Tara Palmeri, 42:20

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Important Timestamps

• 00:45–09:15 – Palmeri’s solo analysis: why the shutdown is unresolved and the political calculus for both sides
• 12:05–25:41 – Extended panel debate: shutdown politics, SNAP, ACA, blame games
• 26:14–37:15 – Gavin Newsom’s podcast moment, Democratic branding, and implications for 2028
• 38:09–44:18 – Zoran Mamdani, AOC, Bernie, socialist/populist rally, and voter mobilization in New York
• 46:16–51:14 – President Trump’s health, MRI, and transparency standards

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Takeaways

• The federal shutdown is a high-stakes leverage game; real Americans are the losers while parties jockey for future election advantage.
• Both Republicans and Democrats are employing tactics traditionally attributed to the other, reflecting a deep political realignment.
• Populist rhetoric—on both the right (Trump) and left (Mamdani, Sanders, AOC)—proves highly potent with disillusioned or frustrated voters.
• Democratic leadership faces new internal pressures from the growing power of left-populist movements.
• Transparency regarding presidential health remains a bipartisan problem.
• The impasse in Washington may not end until both parties have exhausted every means to escalate the “pain register,” underscoring a governance culture increasingly divorced from public service.

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For more in-depth reporting, visit tarapalmeri.com or subscribe to The Red Letter.

Transcript

[Tara Palmeri]

This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever think about switching insurance companies to see if you could save some cash? Progressive makes it easy to see if you could save when you bundle your home and auto policies. Try [e-mail] Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states. Welcome back to the Tara Palmeri Show. As many of you know, I've been a political reporter for my entire career, but I don't believe in carrying water for either side. It is day 28 of the government shutdown, and what we are seeing is dysfunction. Parties unified in dysfunction. Bipartisan dysfunction, I will say. Both sides are completely dug in. They are so afraid of showing cracks. And, I mean, when you ask either side, people at the highest level of power, what's going on, all they can talk about is who's winning. They show you polls about which side is winning the debate. And they have forgotten that there are real American people paying the price for this political brinkmanship, that some people are going to be hungry if President Trump does not allow emergency funds to be used to cover SNAP. SNAP program or food stamps. It's $188 a week for people. One in eight Americans, 42 million people rely on this social safety net to be able to eat. And as soon as Saturday, they may not have it. And this is because the Republicans want to make this as painful as possible for Democrats. Okay? And Democrats are thinking at the same time, well, how do we make this as painful as possible for Republicans? We keep the government shut down because we want these Obamacare subsidies to be renewed. And by Saturday as well, November 1st, people are going to go shopping for their health insurance on the Obamacare system like I will. And they will see their premiums go up as much as 900 per month, 30% per month. It is shocking. And they're hoping that will put political pressure on Republicans to come to the table about these Obamacare subsidies. I know from sources and I around Trump, and I'm sure that he will do this ultimately. He will renew the Obamacare subsidies because he knows it impacts his voters in red states. The question is, who waves the white flag first? Right? I mean, I just don't see President Trump doing it. He said, I will work on this health care issue, but we have to reopen the government. So in the meantime, the two parties are just trying to make it painful for each other and trying to say that they're winning and looking forward to the midterms in 2026. And I will say Trump's own pollster, Tony Fabrizio, put out a memo in July warning when they were negotiating the big beautiful bill that cut out the Obamacare subsidies being renewed, that they could lose by 10 to 15% percent if they don't fix this. So they know it's a problem and they have to deal with it. But in the meantime, House Speaker Mike Johnson, in a call with his members, said, we are going to turn the pain register up to level 10. The exact quote is, quote, the pain register is about to hit level 10. Okay, so there's almost an enjoyment in this. And to make sure that there is no negotiating, as you would hope would happen in Congress, to make sure that people on both sides of the aisle can't talk and figure out how to make this work, Mike Johnson has closed the House. He has literally kept the House out of session for a month so that they can't even speak to each other so that they're scattered around the country. He's ceding his own power to Trump. And not that they would likely feel comfortable making deals without Trump support because they're terrified of him, but still. So when I talk to Republicans, they say, oh, yeah, this shutdown could go as long as December, maybe more. Democrats are more optimistic. November, but they don't see an off ramp in sight. I mean, flights are delayed. Thousands of flights are being delayed already. Imagine the holidays. People could be hungry in a few days. Somehow they were able to pay the troops. But what's next? It's, it's just, it's out of control. So I was on a panel with Abby on Abby Phillips show on CNN last night. And I tried to point this out. I was surrounded by partisans on the left and on the right. And I was like, guys, this is all about political brinkmanship. And we need to remember that at the end of the day, this will all end with a government reopened, Obamacare subsidies likely renewed. And in the meantime, are we really going to make people suffer? Seriously. And I also mentioned, hey, let's not forget that during the 2018 shutdown, the only one beating the this one with 32 days, Trump's first shutdown, she didn't really seem to care about much. Like this one. He's in Asia after all. Right. That he used emergency funds to pay for food stamps. So he could do that right now, but he's choosing not to because this is all about political games. People are political pawns in all of this. Now there is a federal workers union that's going to put pressure on Democrats to come to the table. That's a big deal. We'll see if that causes any movement. You know, I get the sense that they're, that they are very dug in, that they don't see an off ramp. I've never seen anything quite like it, but who knows? I mean, things can happen. But if they remain as dug in as they have been, which has been very remarkable, I don't see an off ramp anytime soon. Now, I talked to a Republican Senate source, and I want to read to you what this person said to me. Okay. Republicans are pretty content to let this thing ride out and make the Democrats eventually cave. This person said the calculus has been harder for Democrats to stay together after the Obamacare subsidies go up. And good luck getting Republicans to agree on a health care bill. So that's the calculus for Republicans. They think it will be harder for Democrats to stay together after the Obamacare subsidies go up. Yeah, they're all just applying pressure until the other one caves. It's scary, right? Yeah. So I, I don't, I don't know when this will end. Although I do think that Democrats are losing leverage every day, mostly because Republicans don't seem to care. Trump's checked out. He doesn't even really know the details of the bill, according to Democrat Democratic leader Chuck Schumer. And that's what he said in a readout of his meeting with President Trump. They didn't know the details, and what they really fear is that he's just bored by it and checked out and. And the rest of the Republican members are in a stalemate around Trump and what he wants to do. So I guess it's. We're all just on autopilot. This is a very weird thing to see Republicans calling for the government to be reopened. So they're not even. They don't even really care. They don't even feel like the government is being held hostage by Democrats who are doing something that they don't normally do, which is using a shutdown for leverage. It's a very odd posture for both of them because, you know, Republicans just don't really care about whether the government is funded. We're in very weird times. I tried to be the sane one at the table. We also talked about Zoram Mamdani, and, you know, Republican leaders seem to be giddy that they're going to have a foil a socialist fo oil in New York. But I think they've missed the point that Zoran Mamdani is bringing out tons of people, masses of people voting early. There at stadiums watching him. He's a rock star next to AOC and Bernie Sanders. And I don't think it's because he has the word socialist in front of his name. I think it's because it's the populist message, a similar populist message that President Trump wrote in on that the elites are not looking out for you. And he came in on affordability. And that's another issue that Republicans have. They ran on affordability and guess what? Life is not any more affordable. You know, inflation is still high, the cost of living. If he can run on affordability and drive voters out like this, then Republicans have a problem. So they shouldn't be giddy. They should say instead of socialist Zoran Mamdani, they should see the word populist in front of it, just like their leader. President Trump wrote in on a populist message and that means that there are problems for both parties. Well, I just hope you enjoy the show. It can get rowdy again. I tried to be the sane one coming armed with facts and insider reporting, which you can find at the red letter. By the way, if you go to tarapaul mary.com that's T A R A P A L M E-R-I.com you will get all my insider reporting exclusive straight to your inbox before anybody else. It's also a way to support independent journalism. You know, I don't have any corporate boards or shareholders or anyone over me telling me what to write or what to do. I am getting the facts first without fear or favor and presenting them to you and letting you decide. I've been in this game for a long time. I'm pretty jaded by a lot of it. But I do feel like the only power we have in this situation is information. So I will give you exactly what I know without bias. And I hope you will continue to support this channel. Please leave comments, please, about what you think I got right or got wrong. This is an open conversation. And take and take a watch of my appearance on cnn.

[Joe Borelli]

That DIY Headless Horseman costume you've been.

[Neera Tanden]

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[Tara Palmeri]

Just remember, when the lights go off.

[Neera Tanden]

The alarm should go on. Visit ADT.com or call 1-800-ADT ASAP when.

[Abby Phillip]

Every second counts, count on ADT tonight, the shutdown is about to get desperately real. 40 million Americans who rely on food stamps will soon be without them. Is this an inflection point in the standoff? Plus, as MAGA insists, there's a plan to get Donald Trump a third term. He's on board with it.

[Harrison Fields]

I would love to do it. I have my best numbers ever.

[Abby Phillip]

And he's not the only one to await 28.

[Anna Kasparian]

You're going to give it serious thought? Yeah, I'd be lying.

[Abby Phillip]

Also, as aoc, Bernie Sanders and the New York Socialist attract enthusiastic crowds, are Republicans and Democrats alike underestimating them?

[Harrison Fields]

AOC's low IQ.

[Anna Kasparian]

It's truly the end of the Democratic Party as we've known it.

[Abby Phillip]

And MRI mystery. Does the American public deserve answers on the president's health? Live at the table, Anna Kasparian, Harrison Fields, Neera Tanden, Joe Borelli and Tara Palmieri. Americans with different perspectives aren't talking to each other, but here they do.

[Tara Palmeri]

Good evening.

[Abby Phillip]

I'm Abby Phillip in New York. Let's get right to what America is talking about. The government shutdown is about to get worse tonight. Panic is setting in for tens of millions of Americans who are now at risk of losing critical food assistance. The Department of Agriculture has warned that the money that funds the SNAP program, better known as food stamps, will run out by this Saturday. And the Trump administration is saying that it will not tap into emergency funds in order to pay for it. SNAP provides aid to low income families, seniors, people with disabilities, so that they can afford groceries. And it's a key pillar of the social safety net. Nearly 42 million Americans rely on snaps, or about 1 in 8 people. It provides an average monthly benefit of $188 per person. Now, the shutdown has dragged on for 27 days now, and it's on track to being the longest ever if lawmakers can come up with a solution to reopen it, even though most are not even in Washington anymore.

[Anna Kasparian]

I don't know what the Democrats are doing other than publicity stunts, but I can tell you the House Republicans are doing some of the most meaningful work of their careers. So I don't want to pull them away from that work right now when their insight and their counsel and their assistants and those of their who, by the way, aren't getting paid soon, that is most essentially needed right now back home.

[Abby Phillip]

You know, this is the shutdown that could very well just not end because nobody seems to be that interested in ending it. But for Americans who are on snap this weekend is going to be where they're going to have to face the reality that honestly, $188 in this economy, it's not even a whole lot of money for food, but it's going to go away.

[Joe Borelli]

I mean, luckily we have the money to bail out Argentina to the tune of $40 billion. And by bailing out Argentina, of course, the Trump administration is helping to bail out the hedge funds invested in Argentina. It's not a good look when the Republican Party won't concede on the one thing that's important here, which is add the subsidies to the Affordable Care act so people's health care premiums don't double. And that's it. That's what the Democrats are asking for, but Republicans refuse to sign on to that. And if we're going to keep having this dysfunctional government situation or congressional situation year after year, I mean, they're still collecting my taxes. Why are they collecting my taxes? For what? And what's the important work that Mike Johnson is doing right now and the Republicans are doing right now? Does anyone know? I mean, there's some Republicans on the panel right now. Can you guys.

[Anna Kasparian]

All Republicans want is for Democrats to do what Democrats have demanded others do time and time again, what Democrats themselves have done. Vote for clean CRs.

[Joe Borelli]

Do you think that has been this.

[Anna Kasparian]

Has been this, I think, premium, the premium that your party chose to have.

[Harrison Fields]

Have subsidies, a product the Democratic Party's own. The premiums, they're looking and they're trying to point the finger at the Republican question.

[Joe Borelli]

Should the premiums double?

[Harrison Fields]

Should they open up the government? The answer is yes, the government will open up the government if they can.

[Joe Borelli]

Get the Democrats the one thing they're asking for, which is a just issue.

[Anna Kasparian]

You want to talk about premiums and.

[Harrison Fields]

We just talked about SNAP benefits. Who cares about health care when you cannot put food on the table?

[Joe Borelli]

Yeah.

[Harrison Fields]

You have a lot of Americans that are going to be without food stamps.

[Joe Borelli]

So you want the Democrats to sign on to funding the government.

[Anna Kasparian]

We want them to do what they've committed to do time and time again. What is the difference of the bill? What is the difference for the bill about the American?

[Neera Tanden]

There is a big difference.

[Abby Phillip]

This is the new Democratic Party.

[Neera Tanden]

Time for now. Amazing. To get lectures on how much you care about SNAP benefits because I have.

[Harrison Fields]

Family members on snap.

[Neera Tanden]

Then why did you. Why did you support the president when he asked for and got $186 billion of cuts to SNAP?

[Harrison Fields]

They were cleaning up the program from waste, fraud, and abuse. You and I both know that. Because you cannot have a program. No, no, no.

[Neera Tanden]

From those straw man's argument, you cannot have those people. I'm sorry, you just paid for 180. So you took $186 billion out of its NAP program. $186 billion that will go waste around. It's not wasteful. You would like to say that, but it's actually false.

[Harrison Fields]

Look at, look at what we actually. What you're mad about is the passage of one big, beautiful bill. You guys have to realize that elections have consequences.

[Abby Phillip]

Hold on one second. Just on, just on the waste, fraud and abuse point. Over the last 15 years, SNAP fraud has fallen from 4% to 1%. So there's already very little fraud in the SNAP program. According to the government, $80 billion.

[Joe Borelli]

A lot more.

[Abby Phillip]

But regardless of that, regardless of that, I mean, people who are on the program right now are going to not have benefits. I think it's interesting because the Trump administration says, you know, there's $6 billion in the emergency fund, 8 billion is needed to cover the month of November. They're saying that they can't use that money because that money needs to be set aside for, you know, hurricanes and other emergencies. But they've been willing to move money.

[Harrison Fields]

Around for all other, for aviation, savings.

[Abby Phillip]

All kinds of other. They've been willing to move. Democrats can't pass the reason. The question is why not this one. Let me, let Tara have a moment.

[Tara Palmeri]

We have to all acknowledge that these are political games that are being played by both sides. Of course, it's politics.

[Anna Kasparian]

Clean CR is not against tomorrow.

[Tara Palmeri]

But they are using, they are using an old Republican tactic of closing the government to have leverage right now.

[Harrison Fields]

Who closed the government? The Democrats. Who closed it.

[Tara Palmeri]

But they are doing it for leverage.

[Harrison Fields]

And who.

[Tara Palmeri]

The Democrats realize that the Democrats are.

[Anna Kasparian]

Not the number two in the household.

[Harrison Fields]

You have the number two House Democrats saying that this is a leverage.

[Tara Palmeri]

In 2018, they had the same 2025. In 2018, they had the same risk of losing food stamps, not benefits. And they went into another reserve to cover it during Trump's longest shutdown, and.

[Neera Tanden]

That was the Trump administration.

[Tara Palmeri]

The point is, is that both are withholding funds.

[Harrison Fields]

You all are ignoring all sit down.

[Abby Phillip]

And so let me, let's just, let's just address what she said because she's arguing. And I think there's good reason to believe that, that obviously there are political games being played here. Democrats are keeping the government shut down until they get concessions on health care. And the Trump Administration, which in the past has used other funds to cover SNAP benefits, is not doing it now. Why?

[Harrison Fields]

Okay, we have to step back for a moment. The Democrats have been getting rolled for the past nine months by the President of the United States. They haven't had an answer for how to get after what the president has been doing, his historic agenda. So now they have their rally around the flag moment or we're going to stick it to Trump. Who they're really sticking it to is the American people. They're holding this government. If you open.

[Abby Phillip]

Let me address the government, we can.

[Harrison Fields]

Get to these negotiations about.

[Abby Phillip]

No, no, no. Let me, let me, let me re. Ask you the question that I asked you, which is that we know that the Trump administration of the past has been willing to use other funds to cover SNAP benefits. We know that the Trump administration of present has been willing to use other funds to cover other emergency needs for people that need to be paid. Why will they not do this? On the issue of food on the table for children under five, children five to seven, very clear. Who's going to adults, adults over 60 years old, people with disabilities. I mean, is the answer as simple as they're not going to give Democrats anything. And maybe they think that this is going to hurt Democrats more if you.

[Harrison Fields]

Open up the government. But people get that you're pouring the figure out the point president of the.

[Abby Phillip]

United States, when it's the Democratic Party.

[Harrison Fields]

That is holding the government hostage, who came out today and said this is.

[Abby Phillip]

Able to sort of put the politics.

[Harrison Fields]

On the federal workers union said this.

[Abby Phillip]

You're not willing to acknowledge that politics is at play here.

[Harrison Fields]

What I'm saying is that the Democrats are playing politics with this shutdown.

[Joe Borelli]

Both sides are playing politics. Very clear.

[Abby Phillip]

Granted. Hold on one second. Granted. One second, Harrison. Granted. The Democrats are playing politics with the shutdown, with American people's lives. They are playing the very same shutdown game that the, that Trump and Republicans played in his first administration.

[Harrison Fields]

Are we dealing with the shutdown of 2018?

[Anna Kasparian]

But now you're playing the what about.

[Harrison Fields]

Us Right, these political games. But you know what? The people on SNAP benefits don't care about.

[Abby Phillip]

I'm asking you.

[Harrison Fields]

They don't care about it.

[Abby Phillip]

Will you acknowledge that the withholding of SNAP benefits in this moment is something that Trump doesn't have to do.

[Harrison Fields]

The administration can look at many ways to solve this problem. Look at what they're doing for our troops. Look at what they're doing for aviation safety. Is there a way to do it? I bet you Secretary Rollins is looking at it. But the one thing.

[Neera Tanden]

Can I just make a point?

[Abby Phillip]

One second, everybody. Just a second. Let me just say I appreciate that you acknowledge that there are options on the table. They're not being utilized.

[Harrison Fields]

If you could acknowledge the government and this problem won't be a problem.

[Joe Borelli]

You don't think that that one secession Democrats is okay, like just one concession, which is the subsidies for the Affordable Care Act? One thing they're asking for because we love that premium.

[Anna Kasparian]

I think they're really sad.

[Tara Palmeri]

Can I just say how I predict this will end? This will end. I'm not sure who will waive the white flag first. I doubt it will be Trump, but he will end up giving the conception concession of the subsidies. He's already said it. He knows he said it.

[Abby Phillip]

Mike Johnson has said it. They've all said that they're going to have a conversation.

[Neera Tanden]

What's ridiculous, honestly, is that he, Trump and Trump has said it's an issue. Mike Tillis has said it's an issue. Senator Tillis has said an issue. What they're really negotiating at this point, basically Thune and others are basically, let's keep the government. This is the negotiation.

[Anna Kasparian]

What the Democratic Party is doing. They're doing the equivalent of a guy down at the Port Authority bus stop putting a gun to your head and saying, give me your money. That's what a shutdown is. It's brinkmanship. It's forcing a negotiation. It's we're here today and I guarantee you, you would have said it's wrong. If they do it, my two friends will say it's wrong. All we're asking Democrats to do is what Democrats said they should do time and time again. They voted for the clean CR 13 times.

[Joe Borelli]

This is not new.

[Anna Kasparian]

They can vote for the cross. They could take the gun out of the head of the American taxpayers. They could take the gun out of.

[Abby Phillip]

The head of the 42 million people that are. I've asked this a couple of times because I just think that let's just put ourselves in the position of a regular human being American just out there living their lives. They want to be able to have the government do what their tax dollars are asking them to do. I think that both, both sides are overestimating the degree to which anybody cares who is responsible, who will be blamed 100% if there is an issue of their premiums going up, they would like that issue resolved. That's what the polling says. And they don't care whether it happens after somebody claims victory because the government is reopened or not to your point.

[Tara Palmeri]

So.

[Anna Kasparian]

Your point.

[Abby Phillip]

I'm just saying if I'm a regular person, they're asking why, if you're going to do it anyway, why not just do it?

[Neera Tanden]

Can I just say so wait, hold on.

[Anna Kasparian]

Point stipulated. I don't think the average American cares which side is doing it. That's why it's so fundamentally stupid that the Democrats are continuing to harm this many Americans, this many Americans who not only will have their food stamp benefits cut, but even the Americans that will have their ACA subsidies. The Republicans want to negotiate on that. They don't want to negotiate with a gun to their head.

[Joe Borelli]

I'm sorry, this is the one time in which the Democrats who do not have power in Congress right now actually have a little bit.

[Harrison Fields]

They do have power.

[Joe Borelli]

They're holding up the donors because of the government funding.

[Tara Palmeri]

Joe.

[Neera Tanden]

And there's really one answer that could solve both the SNAP benefits and the premium tax credit. The truth is you could just have an agreement.

[Abby Phillip]

Exactly.

[Neera Tanden]

Which is what increasing senators like Lisa Murkowski recognizes that basically cutting. Having REST open up the. Also Thom Tillis said let's do a two year negotiation. Let's do two years for the premium tax credit. So the truth is there is a simple strategy here which is they could resolve in a day. But Republicans and the president are not engaged in this battle and they are just letting all this happen. And I just want to make them.

[Abby Phillip]

One quick note. I mean, Anira, you understand this. The largest union representing federal employees says it's time to. To cut this out. And that's going to. That's going to be pressure on Democrats.

[Neera Tanden]

I will say. I actually think what they said is right. We should have a clean cr, a clean resolution.

[Anna Kasparian]

My God.

[Neera Tanden]

But we don't have that Christmas miracle.

[Tara Palmeri]

No, no, we do.

[Neera Tanden]

You guys are wrong. Because the difference between we agree this cr. No difference. Could you just let me finish? The difference between this CR and every other pass CR is this president goes behind the back to just cut whatever he wants. So the truth is you can't even make a deal because Russia Russ Vaught will just. And then afterwards we started having respond just cut willy nilly. So for the dignity of the Senate and for a House, they actually have to come to an agreement on funding the government, which means Rus Fat doesn't just get to do whatever he wants.

[Harrison Fields]

All right.

[Neera Tanden]

That's the big difference between this year and every other one.

[Abby Phillip]

Next that Democrats voted for Gavin Newsom is being mocked for quote, acting like a brother on a Podcast while Donald Trump says that he'd love to do something unconstitutional. Plus, do Americans deserve to know the specifics of the president's mysterious mri? We'll debate isn't considering it. And MAGA is also taking notice of his recent media blitz, which includes this remark that he made on a podcast.

[Anna Kasparian]

Classic divorce, family. My dad was great. Later reconnected.

[Tara Palmeri]

Better late than never.

[Anna Kasparian]

Yeah, he was never terrible, but he just wasn't. He didn't raise us. My mom was 19, pregnant, and divorced a few years later with two kids. Came from no money. It was also about paying the bills, man. And it was just like hustling. And. And so I was out there kind of raising myself, turning on the tv. Started, you know, just getting obsessed, you know, sitting there with the, you know, the Wonder Bread and five stacks of, you know, like, the white stack five story. Come on, macaroni and cheese.

[Abby Phillip]

Some MAGA voices called out Newsom, highlighting the fact that his father was a successful lawyer and appeals court judge who had billionaire friends. Others took issue for the way that he spoke to two black men on that podcast.

[Harrison Fields]

The white benevolent liberal is the most racist person I've ever seen in the history of this country, and many of them don't even know it. The condescending tone in which they address us is utterly ridiculous. They think they can now talk to two black basketball stars, and then now all of a sudden, I'm a brother now, too, because I'm hip and I'm down. And to be honest with you, it's quite condescending. It's actually quite disgusting. You not think that we are beneath you, that you are going to carry us and pat us on the head and say, come along, young boy, and let me show you the ways of the white man. We don't need you to do that.

[Abby Phillip]

Okay, look, I think there's a lot to say about the Gavin Newsom of it all. It's probably a bit of a stretch to say that, you know, whatever he described Newsom as is the most racist thing that he's ever seen, because there's been some racist things in this country's history. But, I mean, what do you make of Gavin Newsom's appearance on that podcast? Trying to, I guess, get some cool points.

[Harrison Fields]

He falls into the trap of Democratic pandering. This is what Hillary Clinton did when she carried hot sauce in her bag. No one believes that she carries hot socks in her bag.

[Neera Tanden]

She does carry hot sauce in her bag. She actually did carry hot sauce in her bag.

[Harrison Fields]

The point is, she panders and if you.

[Neera Tanden]

Okay, well, she was telling the truth.

[Harrison Fields]

A lot of black people, because they didn't vote for her.

[Neera Tanden]

When you look, when you look at.

[Abby Phillip]

The numbers were starting to listen. I don't know. All I will say is that I don't know that that was like a pander to black people.

[Harrison Fields]

It was. And she changed her dial like it's a thing that Democrats do. I'll pull up the tape. There's plenty of it. But the reality is you can do all the podcasts, but the people are looking at the policies. You look at Gavin Newsom's policies. A lot of black Americans are not going to be running towards Gavin Newsom if they were. Paul. Black America. Do you want to live in Los Angeles? You want to live in Miami? Guess where they're going? Miami. They would rather live in a state like Florida than a state like Gavin Newsom's California. Day in, day out.

[Joe Borelli]

I don't know about all that, but I will concede that Gavin Newsom's leadership in California has been a complete and utter disaster. As a Californian, I, 100% have experienced just he's out to lunch, right? Like he changes his ideology depending on what he thinks is fresh and what's hip at any given moment. 76% of Californians voted in favor of something known as Prop 36, which is to roll back some of the soft on crime policies that requires funding. He has been pushing back against, adequately funding the efforts to essentially roll back those policies to ensure that people.

[Neera Tanden]

You're for his more pro crime strategy. You're for the more pro crime I'm fighting strategy, just to be clear.

[Joe Borelli]

Absolutely.

[Neera Tanden]

Okay, good. Okay. Yeah. So, okay, so that's important. So you think it's important to have the investments in fighting crime. Okay, 100%. Because a big challenge among some of the left is not supporting that in the past. So you're wrong. He's not wrong. He's not doing enough to.

[Joe Borelli]

I think the left wanted prison reform. The left wanted better police training. The left wanted real reforms where people aren't getting shot as they're running away from cops and unarmed. What we got instead is the premature closure of four prisons. Gavin Newsom is preparing to shut down the fifth state prison. As a result, the county prisons are full to the brim of inmates, basically. And then what they do is they end up releasing people early because they don't have room for them. So Gavin Newsom, that's just one of the issues I have with Gavin Newsom. Another issue is $24 billion in California taxpayer money gone. It was supposed to help the homeless. It didn't help the homeless. To all these nonprofits that squandered that money.

[Abby Phillip]

Okay, can I just play one. One response to Gavin Newsom on that podcast. This is Adam Carolla talking about it. Also a Californian. Here's what he had to say.

[Anna Kasparian]

He tried to sell that shit here too. Single mom, mean streets, tough, tough upbringing. You should know his dad was lead counsel for Getty Oil. Getty's like the richest family in country, maybe in the world. And that's where Stab is. A judge and a lawyer.

[Harrison Fields]

Right to.

[Anna Kasparian]

He's a world class douchebag who has no personality other than the personality he perceives other people wanting him to have when he's in the room with them. Right.

[Neera Tanden]

I mean I have to say this is like this like total bag on Kevin Newsom to me is a little surprising, I would say amongst Democrats. One of the things that he is doing is there are these, there are Republican attempts to do these mid decade redistricting which people are really worried are going to overturn, basically rigging these elections. And he has, and actually he's put forward, he's actually responding with Prop 50, which is I think going to pass. And it's going to pass because he is demonstrating leadership on at least this core issue of democracy. So I'm sorry.

[Harrison Fields]

Bring in Arnold Schwarzenegger. He'll do what he did to Jake Tapper schooling Texas.

[Neera Tanden]

He's running these ads. And yet Californians 2 to 1 are moving against.

[Harrison Fields]

How many Republicans represent any congressional district in New England? The answer, zero. 40% of them voted for President Trump.

[Neera Tanden]

That is phenomenal. That is a great statistic. Let's look at other states like the Dakotas or other places or one rep. This is not.

[Tara Palmeri]

Like.

[Anna Kasparian]

I think Anna makes a great point.

[Neera Tanden]

Mid decade redistrict. You're totally fine with mid decade redistricting.

[Harrison Fields]

What? Texas, what law are we breaking?

[Neera Tanden]

You're. You're not breaking a law. But that is why we are playing.

[Harrison Fields]

A game that you guys did for so long and trust me, it doesn't taste.

[Joe Borelli]

Paranoid.

[Abby Phillip]

I.

[Neera Tanden]

When you look across the country, Republicans.

[Abby Phillip]

Hold on one second. Let's stick with apples to apples and Republicans oranges.

[Neera Tanden]

Okay, answer.

[Abby Phillip]

Your gerrymandering, Illinois is done by both parties. But hold on, hold on, let me finish the sentence please. Thank you. Gerrymandering is done by both parties. Okay. That is a fact. However, the mid district, the mid decade nature of this redistricting is what is causing so much uproar because there was a census that was done. There was redistricting that was just done. And now they're doing it again with the explicit purpose. The explicit purpose of getting more seats to stave off losses elsewhere in the midterms. So look, you can argue about whether that is legal or illegal. Nobody's saying it's illegal. She's arguing that it's wrong. Many people argue that it's wrong. It's just a fact of what is.

[Harrison Fields]

If it's so wrong, then why is Gavin Newsom.

[Abby Phillip]

Let me ask you about. I don't want to get. I don't want to go down the redistricting cul de sac here. Let me just talk about Gavin Newsom for just a second because what he is doing is trying to run for president. And if you are trying to run for president, it makes sense to go on these podcasts and to show a different side of your personality. But then you also risk getting called out for inauthenticity for kind of glossing over parts of your story, like the fact that your dad was a very successful lawyer.

[Anna Kasparian]

This is Gavin Newsom's problem.

[Abby Phillip]

That is a problem.

[Anna Kasparian]

His problem is that he spends too much time trying to be cool and look cool. Remember during COVID he still had to look cool at French Laundry, having his dinner with his friends. I don't think he wanted to go. She is a California Democrat, right? Bonafide California Democrat, Independent. Independent. Used to be someone who leans left. If she is not the base voter of Gavin Newsom going into a presidential cycle, who in God's name are the people that Gavin Newsom views as demographic because they're all fleeing the state. They're moving.

[Tara Palmeri]

Democrats might be underestimating how difficult it may be for Gavin Newsom to tell his story of California outside of California, especially to Southern Democrats, to the rest of the country, to the Midwest. I just think he's going to struggle. He is a coastal Democratic elite.

[Anna Kasparian]

Where is he?

[Tara Palmeri]

And he does not have a strong story of governance. And he is very preoccupied with the podcast right now, one that he himself.

[Joe Borelli]

I'm begging the Democratic establishment to just consider how much of a target rich environment Gavin Newsom happens to be. Look at his leadership in the state of California. I know that he looks slick.

[Anna Kasparian]

But.

[Neera Tanden]

He'S like field for lots of people are going to run. But I have to say I find it very entertaining that people are basically attacking Gavin Newsom when Donald Trump, who's from New York City, who's like an attention machine has become president of the United States. I think a lot of this, I mean, it is an open field. It's an open field. But I do think fundamentally the one thing about Trump, let me just finish one thing I don't think is what you saw is what you got with Donald Trump. But I do think an issue with Gavin Newsom is he attracts.

[Anna Kasparian]

Are you saying Trump doesn't say verbatim what he thinks? At the moment we're saying it says.

[Neera Tanden]

His core beliefs fundamentally change on a regular basis. And that is like a fact about Donald Trump.

[Harrison Fields]

I think what we're hearing from here is actually a problem that you brought up. The Democratic establishment, which is you going.

[Abby Phillip]

To choose already has a finish.

[Harrison Fields]

You already have a Newsom 2028 bumper sticker on your car. That's what it sounds like.

[Neera Tanden]

And you have to realize.

[Harrison Fields]

You have to to get to a primary. He's not going to win South Carolina. He's not going to win New Hampshire. And it's great for us. But the one person we're not talking about, I'm sure we will, Kamala Harris. No one is talking about her. She's probably going to get into this race and that's going to be a pretty battle. Like you said earlier, I agree there's going to be a, a lot of horses in this race. Lot of people, a lot of. And none of them can beat the next Republican ticket, whoever that is.

[Abby Phillip]

Listen, it's too 40% approval rating. It'll be too early for all of that. You can see CNN's interview with Governor Gavin Newsom on the Story with Alex Michelson. It debuts tonight and will air every weeknight at Midnight Eastern at 9pm Pacific right here on CNN. If you want the whole story about his potential run in 2028, tune in next for us as AOC Bernie Sanders and Zoran Madani draw crowds like this. AOC says that they aren't the crazy ones. Are conservatives and liberals underestimating the political power at play here? We'll debate next. Speaking at the New York Is not for Sale event for New York City mayoral candidates around Mumdani, Alexandria, Ocasio, Cortez had a simple message. It's not us, it's them.

[Tara Palmeri]

We are not the crazy ones. New York City.

[Abby Phillip]

We are not the outlandish ones.

[Tara Palmeri]

New York City. They want us to think we are crazy. We are sane. To demand an affordable and decent housing, a decent wage. The right to health care is not a radical act. It is basic and core humanity.

[Abby Phillip]

Senator Bernie Sanders was there and so was New York Governor Kathy Hochul. She was appearing with Mamdani for the first time since endorsing him late September. That was met by ridicule. What you heard there from aoc, from Republicans, including from House Speaker Mike Johnson. Let's listen.

[Anna Kasparian]

We saw our clearest sign yet that this radical insurgent movement in the Democrat Party is succeeding and they are ending what has always been known as the Democrat Party in America. After a months long pressure campaign from the far left, House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries finally relented. He gave in and he gave his endorsement to the socialist running to be mayor of New York City.

[Abby Phillip]

So none of that is surprising that Mike Johnson would say that. But I also think that there is something happening in New York City, at least when you get, you know, 15,000 people in a room and they are all there to support the guy who's calling himself a socialist. And that's not something that necessarily can be ignored.

[Anna Kasparian]

Look, Trump had 40 something thousand at MSG one night just a year ago, which was pretty impressive. But that crowd was impressive and God bless him, right? You have a right to go to a rally. You know, we talk about AOC and Bernie being there and that's something. The interesting thing is that Kathy Hochul and the leadership, the establishment leadership of the state legislature were there as well. And that to me is the sign that the establishment Democratic Party is embracing this democratic socialist agenda. They are embracing it 100%. And this is an issue set that they are running on that plays well in Bushwick, Brooklyn. It plays well with the cat ladies on the Upper west side. It does not play well in all 435 seats of the House of Representatives that are up. This is a bigger problem for Democrats than just New York City. If they win, if the socialists win the race here in New York City, fine. I think they're going to pay a price downstream in a lot of other districts.

[Abby Phillip]

All right, 19,000 in MSG, by the way, but I think 40, but just double it. But no, I mean, look, I think that you're right that the establishment has come on board, Neera, with this moment for New York. But again, one of the reasons that they're doing it is because it's seems like what Mamdani is able to do, a lot of other Democrats are not able to do around the country, which is get people really excited. The early voting numbers in New York right now are crazy. Okay? The first weekend in 2021's general election, there were 31,000 people. So far, 223,000 early voting check ins in New York in this general election. There's something going on here.

[Neera Tanden]

There's, there's definitely something going on in New York City. I think the question really is, is what? What will happen on Tuesday? I think that's really important. But this is. There are multiple races on Tuesday. There's a New Jersey governor's race, a Virginia governor's race. Virginia governor's race is a lot, much more bellwether for the country than New York City. I mean, New York City is really important, but it is not representative of America itself. And so I do think there are important lessons to learn on the cost of living. I do think Zoran Mandani focused in on that and it was the right issue. People do think housing costs too much in the country. But I also think actually when you're looking at the country, it's more important. It will be as important, if not more important, how Abigail Spanberger does or Mikey Sherrill does in states where you are running statewide, not just in your most urban area.

[Abby Phillip]

Tara.

[Tara Palmeri]

I just think that this, this race, Zoran Mambani, his messaging is all about affordability, which is smart. I mean, and I think that can affect both parties if they don't watch it soon. I mean, inflation is off the charts. The cost of living is insane. And if they don't seem to get the answers, inflation, if they don't get the answers from the Republican Party. We have to remember that there was always a crossover between the Bernie voters and the Trump voters. The populist message, it rings true. Doesn't matter who's saying it. Okay? And somebody's got to bring answers. And he is now a shiny bright object and he's bringing people out. And I know it's a, it's a, it's a label of socialism. And it sounds crazy, but it's still the same populist message.

[Abby Phillip]

Yeah, I think there's a fundamental.

[Anna Kasparian]

Affordability is a problem here in New York because of Democratic problems. Affordability is a problem in New Jersey because of.

[Joe Borelli]

Energy.

[Neera Tanden]

Prices are up, utility prices are.

[Anna Kasparian]

Up because in New Jersey, like you pointed out, New Jersey's energy policies have been rush.

[Tara Palmeri]

Where, where is it?

[Anna Kasparian]

LNG is cheaper in New York than New Jersey because of Phil Murphy's policies. Phil Murphy turned off the energy ticket and New Jerseyans are paying the price. People, they're not moving to New York.

[Abby Phillip]

They'Re moving out of New York.

[Joe Borelli]

Where is it?

[Tara Palmeri]

Where?

[Abby Phillip]

Just one second. I mean, Joe, you're right in the sense that New York is run by Democrats. So, yes, they're responsible for New York. But the country is feeling that it's expensive, that the prices are ticking up now, inflation is heading in the wrong direction. Not the right direction under, under Trump. And that is going to be still a central issue for the next midterm elections, not just for next Tuesday, but the next midterm elections and the presidential election after that. So the candidates like Trump and Zoran Mamdani, who are using populism to address that, clearly something is working. And Mamdani, just because he has a socialist next to his name, clearly voters are listening to the message more than.

[Harrison Fields]

They'Re, they're, they're being sold a bag of goods that is just not going to come to fruition. If you look at Mayor de Blasio's, if you look at Bloomberg's, if you look at all of these Democrats who have ran the city, they wish they promised the same thing and they never deliver. I have a brother in Queens. He's heard mayor since the 70s, since he was born, promised the same thing for the city. Guess what? You never delivered the one mayor that actually delivered on something. Mayor Giuliani. What do you say he was going to do? Get the crime crisis under wraps. And what did he do? Crime deteriorated rapidly. And what. And they. And New Yorkers remember that what Zorhan is doing. This is a guy who's spoken vile about Jews, vile about the nypd. It is true.

[Joe Borelli]

What did he say about Jews? What did he say from the river D.C. please. You're going to talk about.

[Tara Palmeri]

Charter literally.

[Joe Borelli]

Says that they're going to pursue the Greater Israel Project and literally steal land from all these. This is why you have rabbis telling.

[Harrison Fields]

Their congregations to vote.

[Anna Kasparian]

This is the new Democratic Party.

[Joe Borelli]

This is the platform of the establishment. Establishment has not actually looked at anti Semitic.

[Anna Kasparian]

That's what it is fundamentally.

[Joe Borelli]

Please stop with this nonsense. Every single day. I can call you an anti Semitic.

[Harrison Fields]

Because it's exactly what you were doing. The Democratic Party has an anti Semitic why?

[Joe Borelli]

Because they want to visit Israel as the mayor of New York City.

[Harrison Fields]

Is that why he should be arrested?

[Joe Borelli]

He's a war criminal.

[Harrison Fields]

There you go.

[Joe Borelli]

Yeah, yeah, there you go. I'm right.

[Harrison Fields]

Modern day democracy.

[Joe Borelli]

He's wanted by the International Criminal Court. There's a war now for his arrest.

[Abby Phillip]

Modern day Democratic Party next for us. Why did President Trump get an mri? And don't Americans deserve to know what's going on with his health? We'll debate that too, next. There are new questions tonight about President Trump's health after he revealed that he received an MRI during his visit to Walter Reed Medical center earlier this month.

[Harrison Fields]

We had an mri. Mri, and in the machine, you know, the whole thing. And it was perfect. The doctors said some of the best reports for the age, some of the best reports they've ever seen, some of.

[Abby Phillip]

The best MRIs you've ever seen. At the time, the White House described the visit as a routine yearly checkup. It was, though, his second in a matter of months. Trump received an annual physical back in April. So, you know, Tara, we've covered White Houses before. This is always a little bit of, kind of like a mystery when presidents go into the doctor and they don't say why, but with Trump, it's gotten more frequent. And let's be honest, I mean, Trump is, is older, and there are things that are going to happen to his health. The question is, will the White House be transparent about it?

[Tara Palmeri]

Right. And he has a doctor that's always happy to say that his health is amazing. And we know that there's no transparency. Listen, I don't think that there was much transparency during the Biden years either, about his health, as we all know and saw. So the presidents feel like their health is connected to their power. Right? They don't want to show any weakness. And there is the perception that, you know, if they're not fit, it could, it could hurt their mandate. And he has.

[Anna Kasparian]

The reason why we're in this conversation and the reason why there is a distrust from the American public about how the president, this one or any other is healthy or not is because we had a president who covered up his own health decline. And you had people, enablers, I won't say who.

[Harrison Fields]

Some of them were called into Congress.

[Tara Palmeri]

Some people, these guys are both in their 80s.

[Anna Kasparian]

And we saw the physical decline of a. We saw the physical decline of a human on live television. Couldn't handle a pair a set of stairs. And the Democratic Party, he's fit as a fiddle. He's sharp as a tail. He has to have Nancy Pelosi's name on a note card because he couldn't recognize the Nancy Pelosi. But he's sharp as attack that Trump.

[Tara Palmeri]

Is just a year or two younger than Biden. Let's watch him in a year or so. Okay. Because when you get old, you get old really fast.

[Anna Kasparian]

We saw it and then we'll see. Trump challenge was, let's do it.

[Neera Tanden]

Joe Biden was very old. And you know what? People covered it all the time. And it was the number one conversation everyone had about him, he was old. I totally get that. But I think it's a little ridiculous when a guy's talking about having a third term is hiding his MRIs from the American public.

[Harrison Fields]

He's not hiding his MRIs. He literally spoke to the American people.

[Neera Tanden]

And nobody.

[Abby Phillip]

Let me. Let me play the Caroline Levitt sound. And this is what she said. And she was asked explicitly if he had had an mri.

[Tara Palmeri]

Any more details on the president's Walter Reed visit? The readout from his doctor mentioned advanced imaging.

[Abby Phillip]

What procedure was he referring to?

[Tara Palmeri]

Advanced.

[Neera Tanden]

Advanced imaging is something that presidents receive.

[Tara Palmeri]

And people receive when they go to the doctor. And so we provide a detailed readout of that physical.

[Neera Tanden]

And I would encourage you back to that president.

[Tara Palmeri]

I don't know the exact imaging that.

[Neera Tanden]

Took place, but as the physician's note said, the president is in incredibly good shape. Listen, it doesn't sound like transparency.

[Harrison Fields]

Caroline is a dear friend and my former boss. She's a lot of things. She's not a doctor. So for whatever that segment was supposed to be, for her to somehow confirm.

[Neera Tanden]

Whether or not he was getting by the doctor.

[Harrison Fields]

I was there when the. When the president's doctor sent her report and we made it public about the issues that some people were questioning online.

[Abby Phillip]

This is the name. Let me just show you.

[Harrison Fields]

And what does he do out of transparency? We came out. The president was very honest about it. The doctors.

[Abby Phillip]

In a way, it was. In a way, it was unavoidable because of images like this.

[Tara Palmeri]

This is.

[Abby Phillip]

These are his hands.

[Harrison Fields]

We addressed it.

[Abby Phillip]

That. That show that they were.

[Anna Kasparian]

Secretary of Defense disappeared.

[Harrison Fields]

Surgery.

[Abby Phillip]

Some swelling in his ankles.

[Harrison Fields]

And if you wanted a true testament.

[Abby Phillip]

To his health, look at where he is right now. Okay. This is not a general. But this is not a general statement about his health. It's just a very simple question.

[Harrison Fields]

Transparency.

[Abby Phillip]

Hold on. It's a very simple question about whether she could acknowledge that he had an mri and rather than say at the.

[Harrison Fields]

Time, I doubt she knew, and the president came out and said that he had an mri. Talk about transparency.

[Neera Tanden]

As you know, this press secretary does talk to the doctor. You know that that is what is supposed to happen. And if she.

[Harrison Fields]

To the extent of all this.

[Neera Tanden]

Why is the doctor hiding that from every single. Frankly, if the doctor.

[Harrison Fields]

Carolina. The stethoscope was used.

[Abby Phillip]

Probably not.

[Harrison Fields]

Did the doctor tell her a stethoscope?

[Abby Phillip]

That. That the idea that an MRI is part of a standard physical is not true. It's not. It's. It's a. It's he is human, okay? He is the president of the United States. Undisputably so.

[Harrison Fields]

Well, many Democrats dehumanize him, but yes.

[Tara Palmeri]

Hold on a second.

[Abby Phillip]

Let's, let's.

[Harrison Fields]

Are you saying, you're saying that's not true?

[Abby Phillip]

An MRI is not a part of a normal, normal presidential physical or any other physical. It's a test that is done when they are checking for something. So we will find out, I suppose, what they were checking for at some point. We've got but everyone with us, thank you for being here. Breaking news tonight. The strongest storm in the world this year is just hours away from making landfall. We're going to have all the latest updates on that very dangerous situation up next.

[Tara Palmeri]

That was another episode of the Tara Palmari show. Thank you for tuning in. You can support this show by rating, subscribing, following it, sharing it with your friends, leaving comments. Go to tarapaumary.com and sign up for my newsletter, the Red Letter. That's how you can support my independent journalism, by becoming a paid subscriber. I want to thank my producer, Eric Abenate. I want to thank my researcher and social media star, Abby Baker. I also want to thank Adam Stewart, who handles my thumbnails. Don't steal any of them. I'll be back again tomorrow.