Tara Palmeri (2:42)

Oh, my God. I remember you breaking down the first time when you were like, tara, what am I doing? And so Sally, obviously has been behind the anchor desk. She's been in war zones, conflict zones, and you don't realize how much of a team you and I wanted to, like, be there for you, because I probably had the breakdown one month earlier than you. And I'm like, I know what this is. Like, I have been there before. It feels like nothing works. And then suddenly the camera works. Suddenly the lights come on, and you realize, you can do this. You just have to get through those hard spots. And I'm. I'm so impressed with you. And we've been friends, so, you know, I knew she's a good egg. But seeing someone, the way they work, it really changes your perspective on them as well, because that's when you see sort of the stress, you know, that's when you see how people react to it.

Sally Lockwood (3:32)

So, yeah, we've had to prop each other up and, you know, it's been really lucky to have each other. But also thanks to people watching and listening who've been so forgiving, you know, because the lighting has been awful. Like, my lighting is regularly not great because I'm not very good at it. I also am terrible at doing my own hair and makeup, and I don't enjoy it at all. And I really miss that. Used to support everything that went into making programs. Anyway, whatever, let's move on. We'll do an episode on that sometime. But today, t. I mean, we're going to focus on, as we often do, you know, what's happening in the US how it's impacting regions like the one I live in, the Middle east, you know, I was speaking to a senior NGO official in Jerusalem recently. I had dinner with him. He just left Gaza. He arrived that night, and he'd been in Gaza City, where this huge offensive is taking place at the moment. And he said to me, you know, his, like, lasting impression was just that they were scavenging on the streets for just anything that. Such is the level of desperation. And I. And I said to him, you know, Gaza City is under an evacuation order. They're all being told to leave. And there is this huge exodus and that, you know, of Palestinians from, from Gaza City moving south. But there's three roads, right, that go from Gaza, that exit Gaza City and go south, but only one is open for these people to evacuate on. And it is absolutely packed. Not everyone can afford transport, not everyone can afford a shelter. There just simply aren't enough tents. That's the one thing that they're really desperate for. And some people are choosing to stay in Gaza City and ride it out and just see what happens, even though they're potentially at huge risk, because the alternative is taking your family to God knows where. They're supposed to be moving down to this humanitarian zone in the south, but it's absolutely packed with people and there's not enough resource for the people that are already there. Would you want to take your family on the road not knowing where you were going? You know, and this guy who works as a humanitarian in Gaza said to me, you know, I saw this girl, little girl walking along the street and she was holding like a piece of guttering, like a plastic bit of piping and some foam. And he looked at her and he thought, what is she going to do with that? And he said to me, I'm not sure she even knew what she was going to do with that, but she was carrying it anyway, you know, and.

Tara Palmeri (6:11)

That just sort of possession, right? I mean, well, just like.

Sally Lockwood (6:16)

Well, they're burning plastic for fuel now. So was it that, you know, I mean, the whole thing is just horrendous. So I, I think living like that.

Tara Palmeri (6:25)

And then they cut off of aid that was coming into Gaza completely intercepted by Israeli forces. And now you're also hearing that a part of this plan is that the IDF will remain in Gaza. So I don't, you know, it's like they're really not giving up an occupation of the area, right? No, it doesn't.

Sally Lockwood (6:44)

Absolutely not.

Tara Palmeri (6:44)

The only thing in the plan that seems pretty striking to me is that, like, Israel is not deciding that they are going to take over Gaza. You know, that's like they're not claiming Gaza, which is what they've wanted all along, but otherwise it doesn't really seem to change anything.

Sally Lockwood (7:00)

Yeah, look, so let's start with the flotilla and then we'll get on to the plans for Gaza. So the aid flotilla of more than 40 vessels had traveled from Spain. It was escorted by Spanish and Italian naval ships. There was a. There was a Turk. There was Turkish drones offering surveillance as well to protect this flotilla. Because there were allegations that they'd been attacked in the past by the Israelis. Now, as we expected, they were not going to be allowed to bring this aid on into Gaza. They were not going to be allowed to dock on the Gaza coastline. Well, for the same reason, for the same reason that international journalists are not being allowed access to Gaza is because Israel is controlling the borders and they are also controlling the coastline and they are not allowing anyone, such as journalists, such as myself, such as you and, you know, civilians, Greta Thunberg, who was on the flotilla, such as civilians and activists who were on those boats in. And they will say it's because it's an active war zone, but you could also argue that they don't want us to see what's happening there.

Tara Palmeri (8:07)

But also how many. You've covered a million active war zones. Well, not a million, but you know what I'm saying, like you've covered active war zones. You're allowed to go in there.

Sally Lockwood (8:16)

Yeah, yeah, I know, exactly. This is a first and it's a really, really worrying situation because there is a concern it's going to set the blueprint for other wars that other, well, other governments or regimes might attempt to do the same. But yeah, this flotilla of activists weren't allowed access as expected and they were intercepted, you know, less than 100 miles off the Gaza coastline by the Israelis and detained and I'm sure will be subsequently deported. But, you know, they made a very big political point. I think the Israelis did offer to distribute the aid for them and the activists declined. So but this was, this was a political statement and they were attempting to.

Tara Palmeri (9:05)

Cry and they didn't trust them. Is that what the point was or.

Sally Lockwood (9:08)

Good question. I actually don't know the answer to that, but it's a very good question to put to them because if that is what they were trying to do, you could argue, well, the Israelis offered to distribute it. Maybe it's that they didn't trust them to do so or maybe they were trying to make the point that they should have access to guards as well. Who knows? But essentially they were trying to break the siege on Gaza, which, you know, Israel has, has controlled the borders and the coastline since October 7th and you cannot penetrate them without their say so. So unless you are from the UN with, you know, with sign off, unless you are an accredited international medicine, you know, you can't just get into Gaza. It's so strictly controlled.

Tara Palmeri (9:54)

I do, though, want to fast forward a little bit, though, to this reaction to all of these, to the latest events Rising antisemitism. It's just like. It's just out of control. And we've seen it in America. There was a shooting outside the Jewish Museum a few months ago. And now in Manchester, England, the stabbing at the synagogue just in the past week. It's horrific. Police trying to gun down the assailant and missing and hitting two people and killing them. And they're celebrating Yom Kippur, one of the most holy holidays in the Jewish faith. It's incredibly shocking. Sally, tell me, what's going on in the uk. Is it as bad as it is in the us?

Sally Lockwood (10:45)

I think it's worse, to be honest. Thi. What a mess. So, yeah, just to recap, there was an attack on a synagogue in northern England in the city of Manchester on Yom Kippur, the holiest day in the Jewish calendar, where a British citizen of Syrian descent, the son of a doctor, reportedly. And he drove. Oh, and he grew up locally, very locally, close to the synagogue, and he drove his car into worshippers on Yom Kippur before getting out and attacking them with a knife. And police were on the scene within six minutes. You know, this was something that security services and the police had prepared for, unfortunately, due to the depressing state of anti Semitism. So police arrived on the scene within six minutes, and it looked like. I mean, there was complete chaos and panic. Police yelling at people to move away because it looked like he was wearing a suicide vest.

Tara Palmeri (11:51)

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Sally Lockwood (12:10)

Everybody else, get back. If you're not involved, move back.

Tara Palmeri (12:19)

Stabbed him.

Sally Lockwood (12:21)

No, he's got.

Tara Palmeri (12:22)

Now.

Sally Lockwood (12:23)

Police shot the suspect dead, but in doing so, they also injured one worshipper and killed another who were hiding behind the synagogue door. It's absolutely tragic. But, you know, I have to say we've spoken a lot about the war in Gaza on this podcast. You know, we cover it regularly. We talk a lot about the Palestinians suffering. We've heard from a lot of Israelis about how they feel since October 7th. But what we haven't really touched on, hardly at all, is the impact that October 7th has had on the Jewish community worldwide. And, you know, certainly in certain European countries like France, Spain and the uk, where there is an anti Israeli sentiment now and certainly a very strong pro Palestine sentiment, many Jewish people just don't feel as safe as they used to. They're feeling increasingly vulnerable and they're Feeling, you know. Well, it's not just a case of feeling. They're experiencing hatred and they are, they've seen a huge rise in anti Semitism and it's a really depressing state of affairs. Let's listen to a bit of an interview that I did with a senior rabbi in London who talked to me about what he's experienced in his community and how the community is feeling generally. But actually, let's just listen to that bit first and then I'll bring you on to another bit.

Rabbi Dweck (13:59)

We are, we're shocked, we're broken hearted, we are worried and feeling terribly vulnerable at the moment and grieving really well. We've been seeing a significant rise in antisemitism and anti Semitic behavior and actions against the community. I mean, I myself, I've experienced people screaming at me from the street, from their cars. I've, you know, I've had questions from people in my community, you know, feeling that they felt very uncomfortable keeping their mezuzah on the door, which is kind of a, you know, a religious parchment of some verses from the Bible that we tend to put at our doorposts.

Tara Palmeri (14:50)

Wow. I can only imagine it's such a. The tensions are so high and it just seems so unfair as well. I mean, it's not like, you know, they have control over what leadership in Israel is doing and it's terrible.

Sally Lockwood (15:05)

Absolutely. I mean, you can condemn the suffering of Palestinian civilians in Gaza and condemn anti Semitism at the same time. You know, it is possible to have more than one truth. And I think it's really, really sad that so many Jewish people are feeling this way, living in countries such as the uk. And in fact, you know, I was speaking to a Jewish friend of mine in London shortly after October 7, just to give you an idea of how life's changed. She said to me her children are no longer allowed to go to the public park as part of their school activities, which they used to since October 7th because of security reasons. And when I'm back in London from here in North London, where there's a big Jewish community, I sometimes take my daughter to Hampstead Heath to play. And there's a kids play park there. And there's often Jewish mums and nannies and kindergarten teachers there. And they always have security with them. Now. I wouldn't want to live in any country where my child wasn't safe in a park. And I was speaking to Rabbi Dweck about this and I said, you know, are people in the UK making plans to leave? You know, I've been hearing this from other sources, that there are Jewish people in France, Jewish people in Spain, who no longer feel safe there. One Australian Jew who I got talking to on my last visit to Jerusalem a couple of weeks ago, he said to me, you know, mark my words, you're going to see a mass exodus of Jewish people from France coming to Israel not because they want to, but because they need to. And I just found that so sad and so shocking. But that was his prediction. And I put that to Rabbi Dweck to see what he thought.

Rabbi Dweck (17:04)

I think there's definitely a sense of that in the uk. I think that it's heartbreaking for so many British Jews. I'm the senior rabbi of the oldest Jewish community in this country, which was established in 1656. That means that I genuinely have members of my community that are here for 10 generations. It is absolutely heartbreaking that there is genuine worry and consideration that we may not be safe in this country anymore. That a country that we have so loved and frankly have invested so much in, in terms of just what, you know, the Jewish community has done over the last 400 years to invest in British society and in all sectors. And as much as we are shocked and aggrieved, I hesitate to say that we are not entirely surprised. And that is, you know, that's a terrible reality.

Sally Lockwood (17:56)

Are Jewish people in the uk, some at least making plans to leave?

Rabbi Dweck (18:02)

Yes, I absolutely. I absolutely know that there are people who are making plans, considering their options. Yeah, it's happening.

Sally Lockwood (18:12)

And where are they planning on going?

Rabbi Dweck (18:14)

Many are thinking to go to Israel. Some are thinking to go to the United States if they can.

Sally Lockwood (18:19)

So it really. I found that, you know, such a fascinating and really saddening insight that people in the UK are making plans as to where they might move to. And, you know, that he said the two places they're considering is Israel and the United States. And, you know, that does tell me that actually that the situation in the United States must be more secure, or at least is perceived to be more secure. What's the situation in the US when it comes to anti Semitism at the moment?

Tara Palmeri (18:52)

I think there's rampant antisemitism still in the United States. We just have, like, certain pockets, particularly in New York, where, you know, we've got a large Jewish population, the largest population outside of Israel. But we've seen attacks on synagogues. We saw attacks. The Jewish museum in Washington, D.C. in the last few months. We did a whole show on it. I think Jews might be slightly safer just because, like, America's default stance in support of Israel. But, you know, probably more than half of the country, according to the polling right now, is really against the war and sees, you know, Israel as the aggressor. Does that mean that they are going to enact attacks on Jewish people? God, I hope not. But then again, we have more people with access to guns in this country. A lot of unstable people who feel like it is their duty to take up arms based on world events and to. To carry out merciless attacks on civilians. And, you know, we saw it with Charlie Kirk. We're seeing a lot of political violence in the US So I actually think it's pretty risky too, to move to the United States considering how many people have access to arms. I mean, if this was the US the guy wouldn't be running around with a knife attacking people at a synagogue. He'd be there with a shotgun.

Sally Lockwood (20:14)

True. It is a really sad state of affairs. Thi. This whole situation in the Middle east is being felt around the world and it's a complete mess. And frankly, politics should never be conflated with humanity and empathy and we should all be checking in on our Jewish neighbors.

Tara Palmeri (20:34)

That seems like a. I agree with that. Well, Sal, this was. I feel like we covered a lot. Israel, it seems to always be the center focus. Maybe next week we will. Hopefully there'll be a breakthrough and we'll be able to report on that next week and maybe touch on a few other parts of the world, like Ukraine. I mean, what is going on right now?

Sally Lockwood (20:54)

Yeah, I know a lot. Why don't we. Yeah, let's jump on another call in the next few days and we can. We can bring you guys an update on stuff outside of the Middle east as well. But thanks so much for watching. We really appreciate it. Hit subscribe if you don't already and you'll see when our updates drop and tea. Have a great weekend. I'll see you soon.

Tara Palmeri (21:14)

Thanks, Sally. Same to you. Bye.

Sally Lockwood (21:17)

Bye, guys.