← The Tara Palmeri Show
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- [00:00]
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- [00:27]
Tara Palmeri
Welcome back to Tara Palmeri show. I know this isn't my normal background. That's because I am in the Middle East. I landed in Dubai at midnight a few days ago and I'm here for the Billion Follower Summit. It is the largest digital content creator festival in the world. I'm speaking here on a panel I'm moderating to others. I came to meet all the others who are, you know, big in the game in terms of social media and content creation. So I'll tell you all about it when I get back. But I couldn't help but notice on the tower here in Dubai, there is a huge picture of Lara Trump, the daughter in law of President Trump. Apparently she is being featured at this summit. It's really quite interesting. So I wanted to show you some of the B roll of what Dubai looks like. I filmed some of it on my, on my phone. But you know, you can't really move around Dubai that easily and just record, you need a license from the media office. You know, it's not the kind of free press that we have in the United States. And, and I, I realized because I was asking around about like, why don't we just shoot in front of Trump's golf course? Because I've just become so interested in the fact that the Gulf states, United Arab Emirates, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, I mean, these, these countries, they have become probably our closest allies during the Trump years. This is not usual. Usually our closest allies are Canada, Mexico, NATO. No, President Trump is, his love language is here in the Middle east where they have given us trillions of dollars in investment. This country alone has given the United States $2.4 trillion in investment. And they get it. Trump's love language, it's money helps too that there's a golf, there's a golf course here, a Trump golf course, there's a Trump states here and they're about to build a Trump hotel. So there's a lot of development opportunities which a lot of ethicists might say, hey, what's going on over here? So while I was here, I just felt like I needed to know what.
- [02:37]
Is it that the Gulf states are.
- [02:39]
Getting from Trump by giving him all this money and what is Trump getting from them? And so I sat down with my very good friend Sally Lockwood of the State of the World show. She lives here now in Dubai. This is where she covers the region. And we went to her backyard. She's a really good friend of mine. And we caught up and we just talked about geopolitics and. And what it all comes down to. What is the root of this special relationship? I mean, I would say it's much closer at this point than even what we have with the British, with the Brits, which has always been the American US Special relationship. There doesn't seem to be many trade wars going on with the Gulf states. So this has been a very interesting time for me, especially realizing that I have so many freedoms being based in the U.S. so do you. I mean, I can record and even criticize our country and our governments, but that is not a freedom that's attributed here. So I do think there's a little bit of irony that there's a creator that festival in Dubai in the United Arab Emirates, where people aren't exactly allowed to be that free with their creative expression. You know, everything isn't what it seems here. It's an interesting place to be, for sure. It's actually my third time visiting. The second time I was here was with Secretary of State Mike Pompeo on a foreign visit. But, yeah, this is a very geographically interesting place for the United States. Not just because, you know, we're just. We're so close to Iran right now, which is on fire. We're close to Israel, Gaza. So it's not just a place of geopolitical tension, but for President Trump, he sees a lot of dollar signs, let's be honest. So take a listen to the show. It's very rare that I get to do a show where I'm sitting right next to my very good friend. Seeing her and getting to really talk to her, get all of that great information from her, and I hope you enjoy it. I'd love to hear what you think so le comments and please share this with your friends.
- [04:38]
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- [04:46]
Tara Palmeri
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Tara Palmeri
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- [05:01]
Tara Palmeri
And your friends learn more@joinmochi.com Mochi members have access to licensed physicians and nutritionists Results may vary. Welcome to the state of the world. And the Tara Palmeri show collides literally in Dubai. I am in Sally's backyard. I have not seen you in so long.
- [05:17]
Sally Lockwood
I know.
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Tara Palmeri
So happy to be here. And I cannot believe it.
- [05:20]
Sally Lockwood
And you are actually in my back garden. Not just in my backyard in the uae. You're actually in my back garden. Do you like my olive tree?
- [05:26]
Tara Palmeri
It's gorgeous. I'm so happy to be underneath it. And we decided when two brains collide, why not just do a podcast? So thank you, Sal, for having me. And, um, I gotta talk to you though, because I flew Emirates, which is obviously very bougie. I'm here for the Billion Follower summit, which is the largest digital summit in the world, and we're both gonna be there. But I was on the plane and I couldn't help but notice all of the, you know, I guess, ads for Trump properties. And, you know, I actually haven't seen that.
- [06:01]
Sally Lockwood
I mean, they love doing an ad on Emirates. They love. I mean, everyone's like, in flight, entertainment is paused. It's not optional. Right. And you are made to watch that video before you arrive in the UAE of everything Dubai has to offer.
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Tara Palmeri
Everything about real hard.
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Sally Lockwood
But I haven't seen the Trump properties advertised yet. That must be a new thing.
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Tara Palmeri
Yeah. So I think the company is Dar Dar. I took a picture of it actually last night in flight because I couldn't get over it. And it was like glitzy and glam, just like all the other jet setters and champagne and parties and girls. I'm like, is this Gulf State? I'm so confused. It is. They're really, they're really pushing it. Vegas meets Miami. But, yeah, it's. It's all over. I mean. Oh, here it is. It's. Of course, I couldn't help myself. Dar. Darglobal.co.uk and they have obviously already. There's a Trump hotel that's in the works. There's a Trump golf course here already. And you know, the other Gulf states like Qatar and Saudi Arabia, they're also investing in Trump hotels. Now, of course, Eric Trump is the face and he does everything, you know, for his father. But you can't help but think Trump comes here. First of all, I don't know that he's done another foreign trip anywhere.
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Sally Lockwood
Well, this was the first scheduled one. Right.
- [07:13]
Tara Palmeri
Because he went to go see the Pope for the funeral.
- [07:15]
Sally Lockwood
Well, he didn't see the Pope because the Pope was dead.
- [07:18]
Tara Palmeri
That's true.
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Sally Lockwood
Yeah. But, yeah, I Mean, obviously he went to the Vatican for the Pope's funeral, but this was always his first scheduled foreign trip.
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Tara Palmeri
But he hasn't done another one since. Has he not? I don't think so.
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Sally Lockwood
Or yes, he had the UK state visit.
- [07:32]
Tara Palmeri
Oh, that's right, because the queen invited him to.
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Sally Lockwood
Yeah, he wasn't gonna miss that.
- [07:36]
Tara Palmeri
Yeah, well, no, she wasn't. She was dead. Sorry. King Charles invited him. Okay, guys, I am jet lagged, okay? I went to bed. I left at midnight. Okay. And then I landed at midnight. And then I somehow went to bed for a few hours. I slept actually pretty decently.
- [07:51]
Sally Lockwood
I actually can't believe that we're doing this today. I thought you were gonna be completely out of it.
- [07:56]
Tara Palmeri
Yeah. So basically everything I'm saying, Sally's going to fact check, but I feel pretty.
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I feel very confident about this.
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I was not hallucinating when I saw the Trump commercials.
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Sally Lockwood
And you are right that this, the Middle east was his first scheduled visit of his second term in office. And it was his first visit last time because you were on it, remember?
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Tara Palmeri
Yes, they went to Saudi Arabia.
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Sally Lockwood
So he stopped in Saudi, and then he came here, I think, and then he went to Qatar, and that was back in May. And we recorded a podcast then, do you remember? Because it was these trillion dollars worth of deals that he did with these Gulf nations. And then, yes, he's been to the UK for that royal invitation from King Charles, but otherwise. Otherwise. Has he done anything else?
- [08:40]
Tara Palmeri
No, he's not a big traveler. You know, he sends vans to go to Greenland and he's sort of, you know, they. They send Marco everywhere. Marco Rubio, the Secretary of State, he trapped pieces all over the world. But I'm not Steve Wickhole, right? Obviously. But this is like, you know, Trump is very intentional. But let's not Forget, okay, the UAE has already promised to invest $1 trillion into US economy, right? And on the most recent visit, they agreed to $1.4 trillion into data centers, manufacturing in the United States, in our infrastructure. I mean, what do they want from President Trump? I'm sorry, but, like, we don't. Like when we offered to bail out Argentina from their crisis, the farmer crisis. Like, you know, obviously people were angry and they were upset, but I don't gather that people here think, oh, wow, that was a mistake to give the United States all that money. I mean, what do they want, Trump?
- [09:32]
Sally Lockwood
I think they want prominence, they want influence. They want to be in the top tier of nations that are involved in decision making on the world stage. I think that they are also extremely transactional in the way they do business, in the way they do politics. So over here in the Middle east, it is not uncommon for public business to be mixed with private business. These huge sovereign wealth funds.
- [09:57]
Tara Palmeri
Right, right.
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Sally Lockwood
And they like to do deals. And I think that for them, actually, when it comes to Donald Trump, it's not about liking him, it's about understanding his language. I think he talks their talk. Everything's transactional. And it's not about lecturing each other on morals and human rights. It's sign the contract. I know.
- [10:18]
Tara Palmeri
I don't even know why. It's, it's pretty terrible. Like, it's not diplomacy, It's. And actually, because Trump doesn't really care about diplomacy, he cares about money. Transaction. Feeling like he got something out of the trade. Feeling like even in Venezuela, he's going in there and what is he touting? He's not saying, we saved the people from Maduro and these human rights abuses. He's not saying crippled economy. No. He's even left there, he's left the leadership there. It's not even like he really cares about bringing democracy or, you know, any U.S. values. He cares about taking, what is it, 30 to 50 barrels of crude oil, which we'll have to process in the United States.
- [10:50]
Sally Lockwood
Million.
- [10:50]
Tara Palmeri
Yeah, million. Excuse me again, but Jet flag, but, you know, this is, that's his way of being like, we won, it was worth it. We spent money on military, you know, resources, possibly, you know, risking the lives of men. But this is what we get. We get oil and you're all going to be richer for it. And so, you know, I guess. And there's unlimited money here. Like, I was talking to one of my friends who's in finance, she's like, if you really want to do a big deal, you have to come here. Yeah. Which also makes me think of his son in law, Jared Kushner, who's like constantly tinkering and everything and is obviously a huge real estate magnet. His best friend, Steve Wytkop, who was working on the Gaza peace deal, who is also working on the Ukraine peace deal, if that'll ever happen. He's also, he borrowed, you know, $500 million from Qatar when. Well, technically, I think they bought his. Yeah, he, they bought his Park Hotel, actually, let me get the exact figure on that one. But yes, they bought his Park Hotel in New York. So, like, these people have done a lot of business with the Gulf states and yet they're still, they're doing diplomacy too. It's very. It's a strange world to live in.
- [11:53]
Sally Lockwood
And don't forget, Jared also broke the Abraham Accords during Trump's first terminal.
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Tara Palmeri
Yeah.
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Sally Lockwood
He was here all the time. And that was when the UAE normalized relations with Israel, which is why you can now fly between the UAE and Israel almost every hour, but every day. You never used to be able to fly direct between countries before the Abraham Accords. Right. So it has made a big difference and they care about it and it matters. But that was definitely Jared Kushner, who was the linchpin in all of that, and he comes back and forth here quite regularly. And it's interesting that you now see him and Steve Wyckoff being dispatched to the Middle east all the time when something needs to be done, because you get the impression it's really not just about diplomacy. It's these crises that you see, these wars, the crisis in Gaza, the ceasefire deal that's been done in Gaza, which, you know, question arguably is not really a ceasefire because there's been so many violations of it, but it's all about what happens next. Who gets the building contracts to rebuild Gaza, who gets to invest. It's definitely all about the money. Not just in this region, where it's always, always been about the money.
- [13:05]
Tara Palmeri
Yeah.
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Sally Lockwood
But it now is when it comes to the Trump administration, in terms of how they do diplomacy and how they do foreign policies.
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Tara Palmeri
Totally.
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Sally Lockwood
Certainly how it feels.
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Tara Palmeri
Totally. I just want to go back to what I was talking about with Qatar and Steve Wyckoff and their long standing relationship, because we cannot forget that Qatar gave Trump the jumbo chat.
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Sally Lockwood
Yeah, we'll talk about that.
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Tara Palmeri
Yeah, yeah.
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So he.
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The Qatar Investment Authority, which is basically the government, they bought his Park Hotel in New York City for $623 million. So, like, they have long standing, you know, they have long standing relationships. And I believe Kushner has also done huge deals that involved, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And Saudi Arabia. I mean. Yeah. And they're gonna. There are new agreements now in Oman, Jeddah and Dubai that the Trump Organization will have their design management brand towers all over luxury estates. I mean, this is. This is their love language, like you said. So.
- [13:59]
Sally Lockwood
But this is how. This is how American politics is now.
- [14:01]
Tara Palmeri
What? I know it's. It would be. I mean, in prior administrations, this would be a huge red flag ethics concern. You would have people filing lawsuits. They are. But, like, people would be screaming from the rooftops and I was just like, up. That's business as usual.
- [14:17]
Sally Lockwood
Yeah. So talking about the 747 jumbo jet that was gifted from Qatar to Trump to be used as, like, Air Force.
- [14:24]
Tara Palmeri
One and then go to his presidential library in three years. So by the time it's actually been retro and all of the bugs have been taken out, it's actually been made safe enough to be used as Air Force One for public use, technically, because he is a public servant, it will go into the presidential library.
- [14:39]
Sally Lockwood
So it's not even going to be used.
- [14:40]
Tara Palmeri
I mean, Sal, by the time they finish this, which they say is going to take forever and will cost hundreds of millions of dollars, I mean, don't.
- [14:46]
Sally Lockwood
You think Chance is going to keep it for himself, though?
- [14:48]
Tara Palmeri
He is. He's already said it.
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Sally Lockwood
Well, it's Trump Force One. Yeah.
- [14:50]
Tara Palmeri
It's going to his presidential library.
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Sally Lockwood
Oh, okay. That means he can still use it. It's his presidential library. It's not. It's not the state's presidential.
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Tara Palmeri
No, no, no, no. In America, this is his presidential library. Yeah.
- [15:02]
Sally Lockwood
So that's really interesting, because can you imagine any other president prior to Trump accepting that gift? But actually, if you look at how the Middle east operates, how these Gulf states operate, that for them is a gesture. It's seen as a handshake. It's sending a message. We're friends. We're going to do deals.
- [15:22]
Tara Palmeri
You.
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Sally Lockwood
We care about you. We want you to accept this gesture as a sign of our friendship. Right. But of course, it comes with all of these question marks, all of these red flags. And I think it was also a test. It was a test. Will he accept it? How is America now doing statehood? This isn't viewed as corruption because he accepted it.
- [15:46]
Tara Palmeri
Okay, we're going to take a break for a second for our sponsors while I finish Googling and finding out what other major gift a president has accepted from a foreign nation. And we're back live from Sally's backyard in Dubai in the heart of the Gulf Middle East. Actually really close to Iran, which I want to talk about, too, and if that's scary, because I remember saying to my friend who's watching my dog, she's actually Iranian, she's Persian. I was saying, what happens if I'm trapped here? What if they close the airspace because of Iran? Which I'm going to ask you about a second, but now that I've gotten the results, yes, The Qatari luxury 747 Dash 8 jet is the most expensive gift a US president has ever received from a foreign nation. Under US law, foreign gifts above a minimal value must be reported and generally are considered gifts to the Amer, the US people, not the president personally. So there are constitute, there are constitutional limits on what officials can accept. We got a giant panda from China. Okay. That was a notable one. And a gold and diamond encrusted snuff box from king Louis the 16th of France to Benjamin Franklin in the 1780s. It was an extravagant 18th century gift. But various jewel sets and luxury items given to presidents like Barack Obama were also kind of. I mean, at the time, people went hysterical over that. I remember. Okay. Fears now about, like, what do you think about me being worried about leaving Dubai because of possible unrest in Iran? I mean, you saw Trump just drop a bomb.
- [17:19]
Sally Lockwood
Well, technically I think that Americans get jittery about things like that. More than, more than I would. Because you don't travel.
- [17:29]
Tara Palmeri
You don't travel.
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Sally Lockwood
It's a really long way away. Like the Middle east is 15 hour flight from New York.
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Tara Palmeri
Right?
- [17:34]
Sally Lockwood
Yeah.
- [17:34]
Tara Palmeri
It's not our backyard.
- [17:35]
Sally Lockwood
And I think for people like me who live here, is not something that I'm worried about or would worry about. I mean, you would not see the airspace close here. I mean, in extremists. Okay, so we saw that happen last summer, do you remember, during the 12 Day War between Israel and Iran.
- [17:50]
Tara Palmeri
Yes.
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Sally Lockwood
Do you remember that? And then I'm trying to remember Iran. That's right. Iran, in this very choreographed attack, attacked Alade Air Base, the American airbase in Qatar.
- [18:01]
Tara Palmeri
Do you remember? Yeah.
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Sally Lockwood
But it was, it was all like, all the back channels were open. Everyone knew it was going to happen so that Iran could save face. And the Qatari airspace closed for less than a day. I can't remember how many hours exactly. And here the airspace closed, but really for not very long at all. And they don't, they didn't even make a public announcement here. But while it was happening, I remember because I was called by Sky News in London and I was asked to go live for them because it was just, it all happened quite quickly and it was kind of wild. And we could see on the flight radar. Yeah, we could see essentially all of the aircraft. Just like Dubai is the second busiest airport. Airport in the world. I think.
- [18:45]
Tara Palmeri
I believe that.
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Yeah.
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Sally Lockwood
All these aircraft just suddenly just like started leaving the UAE airspace and you could see them just like circling and moving and it was just like the airspace over Dubai was completely clear for like maybe an hour. It wasn't long. Because everyone knew it was happening. I mean, not at my level, not at your level, but in terms of the military and governments and so when you think of, like, how extreme that was that Iran lobbed a missile at Qatar and it was, you know, aimed at Al Udeid airbase because of American involvement in the Israeli bombing campaign in Iran, I mean, it happened so quickly, and that was a really big deal. That was very dramatic. But it. I mean, the airspace here closed like an hour. There were flights that were delayed. I can't. I don't even know if any were canceled.
- [19:36]
Tara Palmeri
Right.
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Sally Lockwood
And people did. People did worry. There were. It was definitely. The region was definitely on edge during that couple of weeks. Everyone here was talking about it. I mean, the types of people that would never normally talk to me about that sort of thing. You know, like people I bump into a yoga class were saying to me, oh, my God, what's going on? What's going to happen? You know, are things going to impact us here? Because what was happening between Iran and Israel, and people were worried about it because it's so close. You know, at its closest point, Iran is 75 miles from Dubai.
- [20:09]
Tara Palmeri
I know you. I feel like you were more freaked out at the time. There was something that you felt. No, you were definitely panicked. You were panicked.
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Sally Lockwood
I think it was just more adrenaline. It was just. We weren't expecting it. I think people here were more worried about their travel plans for the summer being impacted.
- [20:25]
Tara Palmeri
Honestly, that would make sense than actually.
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Sally Lockwood
Feeling like their security was threatened.
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Tara Palmeri
Okay.
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Sally Lockwood
If I'm honest.
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Tara Palmeri
Yeah.
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Sally Lockwood
But certainly it was something that we weren't expecting or it was extremely unusual. Like, if you'd said. If you'd said a year ago, two years ago that that was going to happen, I think people would have been quite surprised. Whereas now, I think in the current climate, we feel that it could actually all kick off again. It wouldn't take very much for the Iran situation to kick off again. And, yeah, that would definitely impact the wider region. I mean, yeah, there were Iranians escaping to the UAE during that period on little boats.
- [21:03]
Tara Palmeri
Right. Well, I don't know what.
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Sally Lockwood
I don't know what kind of boats they were because I never saw pictures of them, but I certainly heard reports from Iranians living here that they knew of Iranians coming here by boat. Whether that was ferry or. Or what, I don't know. And I know some have never gone back.
- [21:20]
Tara Palmeri
Yeah, I heard that they're giving Iranians $7 a day to stop the protests. That was the latest reporting.
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Sally Lockwood
I mean, honestly, it's hard to even get accurate information out of Iran.
- [21:31]
Tara Palmeri
Yeah, right.
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Sally Lockwood
They have, you know, these kill switches where they can Literally shut down the Internet, plunge an entire area, entire city into blackout. And it's very hard for them to communicate with the outside world. Social media is blocked there. And people are scared as well. They're scared to, you know, send information to a reporter. They're scared to talk to each other. They should be hard to get.
- [21:55]
Tara Palmeri
Yeah.
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Sally Lockwood
Anyone should talk to you, even off the record there. And I've got a lot of Iranian contacts who live here and beyond, and they wouldn't want. Some of them don't even want to talk to me unless it's anonymous, because they're worried about their family members, like they're being targeted. But it's really interesting, you see that Iran has erupted into protest and unrest again in the last two weeks. And, you know, they do want regime change there. The majority of Iranians want regime change. You've got a population there, like 60% of the population is under 35. They, they're young and they're educated.
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Tara Palmeri
Right.
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Sally Lockwood
There is a very high level of college educated young people in Iran, especially women. And they've got nothing to, like, you know, they've got no aspirations. You know, the economy is completely screwed. The currency is just devastated, and there's very little opportunity. And they're living under, like, repression. Yeah. And barbaric rule. And you just think it's a matter of time. Right. It's a matter of time before there is regime change and a revolt by the people. But I think what people are now concerned about is that actually there could be US Intervention, because Donald Trump's already made making noises about, you know, potentially getting involved in Iran or Greenland next. What he's going to, you know, what.
- [23:18]
Tara Palmeri
Is he going to do?
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Sally Lockwood
Anything can happen and anything. Anything can happen. And we're used to Trump saying crazy things, but I think now people realize that actually, you've got to take him at his word as well.
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Tara Palmeri
Yeah.
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Sally Lockwood
And you're right. If Trump does, I mean, because he said if protesters in Iran are treated brutally or violently, he will rescue them. And he said America is locked and loaded and ready to go, which is a very. It's a very militarized language. And you've got to ask yourself, I mean, Trump seems to be really chuffed. That's a UK expression. It's really pleased. Really chuffed.
- [23:52]
Tara Palmeri
I need to use that in a sentence next time.
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Sally Lockwood
It's a great word.
- [23:55]
Tara Palmeri
I'm feeling very chuffed with myself right now. I'm awake. That is why I'm chuffed with myself.
- [24:00]
Sally Lockwood
But Trump seems really chuffed with how the Venezuela operation went. Right. And I think he feels emboldened. He seems to, you know, I mean, he's just used his military in an incredibly impressive way. He's had this result and he. I don't know. Does he. Is he now looking for his next thing?
- [24:21]
Tara Palmeri
Yeah.
- [24:22]
Greenland. You just announced five countries that they would invade.
- [24:25]
Sally Lockwood
I know. I mean, we're laughing, but it's not actually.
- [24:28]
Tara Palmeri
No, it is real.
- [24:30]
Sally Lockwood
So, okay, in what order do you think that will go?
- [24:33]
Tara Palmeri
Definitely Greenland first.
- [24:35]
Sally Lockwood
I don't think so.
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Tara Palmeri
What do you think?
- [24:36]
Sally Lockwood
Iran. Iran. I'll tell you why.
- [24:38]
Tara Palmeri
Because NATO to destabilizing.
- [24:41]
Sally Lockwood
I think firstly, if, if anything happens with Greenland, I don't think it will be by military force.
- [24:46]
Tara Palmeri
They'll buy it.
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Sally Lockwood
I think it will be a deal because he won't. I mean, I just.
- [24:50]
Tara Palmeri
They get a military.
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Sally Lockwood
Can you imagine, can you imagine America attacking Greenland? Like.
- [24:54]
Tara Palmeri
No, no.
- [24:55]
Sally Lockwood
A European territory. I mean, that would be.
- [24:59]
Tara Palmeri
No, it's insane. It's insanity. But he wants to show people that he's a madman, I think have leverage.
- [25:04]
Sally Lockwood
I think Greenland makes great headlines and I think it, it scares the bejesus out of Europe, European leaders. But I think that Iran is more realistic because he's got form there. He last year joined Israel in the bombing campaign in Iran. Nuclear facilities. I don't think it would be. I mean, it certainly wouldn't be as shocking. And I think for Trump it's probably much more within his reach to do that without upsetting the wider world as much.
- [25:32]
Tara Palmeri
Right.
- [25:33]
Sally Lockwood
Trying to attack or trying to take Greenland by force. Yeah, yeah.
- [25:37]
Tara Palmeri
No, you're right.
- [25:37]
Sally Lockwood
Yeah. I think it's crazy that we're even talking about prospect. And you think.
- [25:40]
Tara Palmeri
Yeah, no, for sure. And also, what are Americans thinking? I was just looking at some polling and 75 or 76% of Republicans are with him, which is, you know, big. That's a lot.
- [25:52]
Sally Lockwood
Yeah.
- [25:52]
Tara Palmeri
Democrats, not surprisingly, about 11% are with him.
- [25:56]
Sally Lockwood
Yeah. But of all, of all voters, I would have expected.
- [25:59]
Tara Palmeri
Of all voters, 40% are with him. They want. Follow. They want, like they're, they're an accident.
- [26:06]
Sally Lockwood
You say with him with regards to Venezuela or general.
- [26:09]
Tara Palmeri
They approve of it. Of the, of the. His moves in Venezuela, but they worry about the follow through. They do not want this to be an occupation. They do not want to be involved in another forever war.
- [26:21]
Sally Lockwood
In Trump's own words, was Donald Rumsfeld, right. Who said if you break it, you own it? Was it him that said that when it came to Iraq? And I think that's that has been the issue with all these forever wars. Right. With Afghanistan. Right.
- [26:32]
Tara Palmeri
You just can't leave it.
- [26:33]
Sally Lockwood
I mean, what, what is the plan for Venezuela? They've got you. Dulcie Rodriguez, the number two, is now in charge. Like, what does that mean? What's going to happen there? I don't know. Is anything going to change for the Venezuelan people?
- [26:45]
Tara Palmeri
Probably not.
- [26:46]
Sally Lockwood
Or is it just a case of America now has access to its crude oil?
- [26:49]
Tara Palmeri
That's probably it.
- [26:50]
Sally Lockwood
That's probably it, isn't it?
- [26:51]
Tara Palmeri
I hope there's no famine, though, and I hope that people are okay, because this is, these are kind of the situations that set up instability for the actual people.
- [26:59]
Sally Lockwood
I mean, the economy there is devastated.
- [27:02]
Tara Palmeri
Yeah, that was horrible.
- [27:03]
Sally Lockwood
Inflation is through the roof.
- [27:04]
Tara Palmeri
It's horrible.
- [27:05]
Sally Lockwood
I mean, I'm, I mean I'm not, I am by far like not a Venezuela expert by any stretch of the imagination, but suddenly we're all, you know, having to pay a lot of interest, take a lot of interest in what's happening. And when I read the detail of how bad things are in Venezuela, it's absolutely, you know, outrageous. Imagine, imagine trying to raise a family there. Imagine trying to make a living there. I mean, it's, it's actually kind of crazy that we've now got to a point where America has done what it's done under this Trump administration. They've essentially kidnapped the leader and his wife and there's no follow up, there's no plan. Right.
- [27:46]
Tara Palmeri
For what happens. There never was.
- [27:48]
Sally Lockwood
And it's not about. And it's not about the people.
- [27:50]
Tara Palmeri
No, it's not.
- [27:51]
Sally Lockwood
And it's not about human rights and it's not about values.
- [27:54]
Tara Palmeri
It's not about spreading. I mean, in fairness, like George W. Bush was all about spreading American values when he went into Iraq and Afghanistan. Those were the covers. Obviously he was looking for, sure, Very similarly looking to plant American influence, allegedly fight war on terror and yeah, to take resources from the region. But I do think when he went into Africa and he, and he tried to fight the AIDS crisis and he really helped with education, I do think he actually genuinely cared about spreading democracy, democratic values and improving the lives of people. Like, he was seen as the one president who like, truly cared a lot about Africa and he did a lot of good there. But, you know, Venezuela is a country where in one year people lost 20 pounds on average from famine.
- [28:37]
Sally Lockwood
Wow.
- [28:37]
Tara Palmeri
Yeah, it's horrible. It's horrible. And there's no plan for that. How do we know that there aren't just Three people who are going to get rich from this new, you know, this new relationship with the US.
- [28:49]
Sally Lockwood
And I think when you look at what's happened with Venezuela, I mean, 2026 has had a wild start. And I was just saying last night, you know, I kind of, you know, every year I think, oh, this year is not going to be as crazy as the last. And it manages to kick it as that somehow.
- [29:05]
Tara Palmeri
Yeah, it does.
- [29:06]
Sally Lockwood
And I feel like the way that the first week of January, you know, I think it set the tone for the, for 2026. And I think what we could see with Trump is, is more crazy moves when it comes to Iran, when it comes to Greenland, when it comes to the, you know, NATO alliance. Like, I just feel that all of the old establishment things that we could rely on in terms of how the world order operated just don't exist anymore. And I think Europe no longer relies on America as a trusted, reliable partner, which is super sad. And I think that America, I mean, you may disagree with me, and I'm sure a lot of your audience may disagree with me because obviously you view things very differently in America to how we view what's happening from outside. But I think we always trusted America to kind of do the right thing. And I don't think that people feel that way anymore. And I, and I think that they've lost their, their moral standing in terms of, you know, if Russia invades another European country, if it go heads for Moldova next, will America give a damn? Will Trump give a damn?
- [30:19]
Tara Palmeri
No.
- [30:19]
Sally Lockwood
And if they even did, do they have a leg to stand on anymore? Because look what they've just done in Venezuela. It's complete hypocrisy now.
- [30:26]
Tara Palmeri
Problem is that, like, Democratic leaders also didn't care about Ukraine. I mean, they let, even during Obama's, like, presidency, they let Russia take Crimea pretty quickly.
- [30:36]
Sally Lockwood
I don't know. There was a lot of outrage for a long time.
- [30:38]
Tara Palmeri
That's true.
- [30:39]
Sally Lockwood
There was a lot of outrage for a long time.
- [30:40]
Tara Palmeri
And then after, like, what's in it for us?
- [30:42]
Sally Lockwood
But then the world got distracted by other stuff and attention moved on, and before you know it, they're still occupying Crimea even now, obviously. And that that invasion happened in 2014. But you're right, I think the world kind of just got over it.
- [30:53]
Tara Palmeri
Yeah, it's just a bit of what's in it for us mentality. That's the Trump Doctrine. Sure. You call it Donro Doctrine. Whatever. Carving up the world.
- [31:01]
Sally Lockwood
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.
- [31:02]
Tara Palmeri
Divide. It's like dividing, you know, Carve up the world and conquer. Take whatever, whatever you can without any, like, long term plans or thoughts about alliances and.
- [31:12]
Sally Lockwood
Well, it's essentially spheres of influence, isn't it? And it's like, we'll take care of our backyard and let you take care of your backyard. No questions asked. Right.
- [31:22]
Tara Palmeri
But at some points the backyards meet.
- [31:25]
Sally Lockwood
Yeah, true.
- [31:25]
Tara Palmeri
And then what happens there on the borders. Yeah, what happens on the borders.
- [31:29]
Sally Lockwood
Yeah, I know. Scary prospect, isn't it? And I think when Trump visited this region last year and he made that speech in Riyadh and he said there'll be no more lecturing.
- [31:40]
Tara Palmeri
Yeah.
- [31:40]
Sally Lockwood
I think that was like a really big moment in terms of setting the tone for how Trump does foreign policy, which is. I don't really care about Khashoggi, what you're doing.
- [31:51]
Tara Palmeri
Yeah. Human rights can fade into the brutal murdering a journalist. Mbs, like, it's cool.
- [31:56]
Sally Lockwood
Yeah.
- [31:57]
Tara Palmeri
No big deal.
- [31:57]
No.
- [31:59]
Sally Lockwood
Yeah. I mean, as long as we get the deal, everyone does. Okay. Out of this. All those human rights issues, let's not just. We will not talk about those. Let those fade into the background. I mean, when mbs Mohammed bin Salman, the Crown Prince of Saudi, was in the White House recently, Donald Trump said to a reporter, I mean, Donald Trump defended him and attacked a reporter for asking a question about Khashoggi. Do you remember? And he was saying, oh, don't be rude to our guest. And he said something along the lines of, you know, people get things wrong. You know, we all make mistakes. You know, I can't remember what he said exactly, but he did try to really minimize the butchering of a journalist who wrote for the Washington Post.
- [32:41]
Tara Palmeri
That was horrible.
- [32:43]
Sally Lockwood
And I think that's, that's how Trump does foreign policy. But I've got a question for you. So obviously the America first last question sounds.
- [32:51]
Tara Palmeri
Bernard Aid. Jet lag.
- [32:53]
Sally Lockwood
Last question. I told you everything that I think in terms of, you know, how we view what's happening on the outside. Just give me a flavor of how people are viewing it within America and whether the MAGA movement give a damn that the America first stuff is actually kind of not really being adhered to. Like, it was all like, America First.
- [33:13]
Tara Palmeri
No, it's totally interventionist. Like, they do not want this.
- [33:16]
Sally Lockwood
And now Trump's getting, getting involved everywhere.
- [33:18]
Tara Palmeri
No, like there is a mixed messaging. I remember right after the Venezuela attacks, when I woke up in the morning, I got a bunch of text messages from Republican, you know, officials in. On the Hill. Just talked to some of like the MAGA influencers And at first they didn't know how to react. They were like, should we be outraged that we went into Venezuela? This is ins. Insanity.
- [33:40]
Sally Lockwood
Yeah.
- [33:40]
Tara Palmeri
I mean, once Trump was like, woohoo. Press conference.
- [33:43]
We crushed it.
- [33:44]
Like, look how amazing it was. Then they kind of got on board and rallied with. But this is not what they signed up for. This is not the policy that they, you know, that they voted for. And I think, like, you're going to see it in the midterms. What they voted for was, I guess, some culture stuff, but also just to improve the economy. And, like, I don't think these, these fights, these, these foreign wars, you know, jaunting around, becoming an alleged peacemaker for his Nobel Peace Prize as the ego, you know, jaunts. I don't think they actually help the everyday American feel like they have more money in their pocket. And that is. It's the economy, stupid. You know, to quote the great James Carville. But, you know, it's. This is not why they voted for him. And so, you know, everybody loves to.
- [34:35]
Be behind a winner.
- [34:35]
So when Trump makes himself a winner, they're not going to fight him. And he's pretty good at corralling them, but only for so long. I think he's, he's, he's walking a fine line right now. And these better not be messy wars that we've been involved in, or his people are going to turn on him very quickly. I think that they're getting a little tired and it's, you know, you've had a year now, you can't blame it on the Biden economy anymore.
- [34:58]
Sally Lockwood
So. And I think that might be the one thing that stops him from getting involved in Iran, Greenland, other areas is the fact that he's going to get that verdict in the midterms. Right.
- [35:09]
Tara Palmeri
Yeah. I also think that Marco Rubio is a very ambitious man. He's the Secretary of State. He saw, you know, going into Venezuela as a way to shore up the Hispanic community for his own run. And, you know, obviously, America is a very deeply Hispanic community, and they have a lot of sympathies for the Venezuelan people. And I don't think it's personal. He's a Cuban refugee. His family, he comes from Cuban refugees. And, you know, he's. This will fall on Marco, too, though, if it doesn't work out.
- [35:41]
And his.
- [35:41]
He put his own political future on the line.
- [35:44]
Sally Lockwood
And he's an experienced political operator.
- [35:46]
Tara Palmeri
Yeah, he is.
- [35:47]
Sally Lockwood
He's one of the grownups in the.
- [35:48]
Tara Palmeri
Room, allegedly, if there are any. Okay, let's go not be grown ups for a little bit and have some lunch time off. Okay.
- [35:56]
Sally Lockwood
Let's go for a swim.
- [35:57]
Tara Palmeri
Yeah.
- [35:57]
Thanks for, thanks everyone for tuning in to the show. State of the World meets the Tara Palmeri show in the Middle East. Dubai. I hope you enjoyed just a casual chit chat on foreign policy in our backyard. And we'll be back actually live from the billion follower summit. I don't know if we're going to go live. We'll probably pre tape and we're going to talk about our journeys in independent journalism and where we are, where we've.
- [36:23]
Sally Lockwood
Been since we started and how it's going.
- [36:25]
Tara Palmeri
Yeah.
- [36:25]
Sally Lockwood
Going to be a therapy session.
- [36:26]
Tara Palmeri
Yeah, yeah, yeah. We started like I think Sal, you and I had the first phone call back in January, so about a year ago.
- [36:32]
Sally Lockwood
So year anniversary.
- [36:33]
Tara Palmeri
Yeah, yeah, we, that's when I, I told her, sal, you gotta do this, you gotta go independent. And so we'll have a lot to say and we'll give you some of the, give you some talk. We'll tell you what we, we talked about in the show. But thanks for tuning in.
- [36:46]
Sally Lockwood
Thanks guys.
- [36:47]
Tara Palmeri
See you soon. Bye.
- [36:48]
That was another episode of the Tara Palmeri show live from Dubai. Thank you so much for tuning in. If you like the show, please subscribe, rate it, share it with all your friends. If you like my reporting, head to Tara Palmeri.com, sign up for the red letter, become a paid subscriber and you can get my exclusive reporting straight to your inbox. And it's how you can support my independent journalism. I want to thank my producer, Eric Abenante, Abby Baker on the social media and research, Adam Stewart on my graphics, and Dan Rosen, my manager. See you again soon.