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The Tara Palmeri Show
Most Americans Think Trump’s Iran War Is About Epstein—What They’re REALLY Saying w/ Mehdi Hasan
00:28:49
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- [00:00]
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Mehdi Hasan
Here's my favorite stuff that 1 in 4 Republicans say, yeah, we think Epstein played a role in this war. A quarter of Republicans.
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Tara Palmeri
Welcome back to the Tara Palmeri Show. It's been day 18 of a war in Iran. And while the administration calls it Operation Epic Fury, most Americans are calling it Operation Epstein Fury. And that's because we're getting so many mixed messages from the world, White House, the Department of War. The impression is that this whole thing was launched on a feeling, not on hard data because we're really not getting a lot of information. It's all over the place. We've been hearing for years that Iran is just weeks away from a nuclear weapon. And now suddenly in March, we are at war. We're all just supposed to go along with it, even though we have not gotten any buy. And the president hasn't tried to even sell us on this war. He hasn't tried to sell our allies on it either. And now he's wondering why they won't help him with the strait of war moves which is backed up. So Americans are incredibly suspicious. They have been for a very long time and for good reason. We've been dragged into wars before. We've seen leadership botch serious problems like a pandemic, for example. And so, you know, I was at Doral, President Trump's golf course for his first press conference since the war. And I wanted to ask him, you know, is Congressman Thomas Massie right when he said no, you know, no strike on Iran will distract from the Epstein files, Are you trying to change the conversation with this invasion. But I didn't get that question. I didn't get asked a question. I was sadly behind a very tall person. And the way it works is that in the press corps, the press pool tends to be in the front. And as Medi and I reveal in this episode, the press corps tends to go along with each other. They don't really back each other up and they're kind of sheep. They stay in the same lane. And they're at the mercy really of the wranglers of the press. They're really at the mercy of the White House press secretary. So it was the question that I wanted to ask the President, believing that I was asking a question on behalf of the American people. Because that's the question that many Americans want to know right now. Well, Medi Hassan, his site, zatio drop site and the center for American Progress, which is a center left think tank, they actually asked the American people that question. They asked them why they think the President went to war with Iran. And the exact statement that they asked in their polling, President Trump was at least partly motivated to take military action against Iran in order to distract from the Epstein scandal. And they asked if voters agreed with that statement. And 52% of them agreed. 52% of likely voters, 40% did not. Now, among Democrats, 81% of them agreed. That's almost like universal agreement. 26% of Republicans agreed, which is pretty shocking when you think about it. And for people under 45, it's almost, it's incredible these numbers. 66% agree. So we go into all of this in this episode, we break down the findings. There are, you know, a lot of different threads in this poll to pull on. We talk about why they conducted it. Mehdi, I speak to his reporting on Iran, what he's hearing from people on the ground. How do they really feel about the US Ever since this attack, I know many of them wanted liberation, but how do they feel now when they see that our AI generated drones and attack and, and weapons are, are taking people out indiscriminately. And we look back at the war in Afghanistan and Iraq and Medi, you know, reflects on how he felt about George Bush at the time when he was protesting and those two wars and how he is feeling really right now. So I hope you'll stick around for this episode. It is a fascinating one. But first, a moment from our sponsors. Picking the right medical coverage is stressful. So if you or someone you love is on Medicare, you really need to pay attention here. Because it's confusing at times and I actually think it's on purpose. Well, Chapter has unbiased independent Medicare advisors that are salary based. They're not looking to waste your time. In fact, they can scan through tons of plans in under 20 minutes and they'll tell you if the one you have is the right one or if you can save money as much as eleven hundred dollars, you. That's the average that people save. And the best part is it's totally free. It's a great way to find a plan that fits your needs. So for free and unbiased Medicare help, dial 305-515-5237 to speak with my trusted partner Chapter or go to ask chapter.org Maddie, thank you so much for coming on the show. I am, yeah, I'm a huge fan of Zetio Breaking Points, the whole collaboration that you guys do. And I was really intrigued by the polling that you've recently conducted about how Americans are really feeling about this war in Iran because it feels like every single day the US is losing that support
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Mehdi Hasan
100%. And we commissioned a poll last week with it was a joint endeavor, independent journalist coming together. US and DropSite News came together and commissioned Data for Progress, a pretty well known center left progressive polling company, to do a poll of 1300American adults around March 6 to March 8, about a week into the war. And there's been a lot of polls, to be fair, about the Iran war. And guess what? They all find one thing, the American public does not support this war. Which is remarkable, Tara, because in my lifetime, every American foreign war has had the backing of the American public, even if they were skeptical. Once troops are deployed, we get behind the boys. But not this time. The American public is so fatigued with endless wars and so fed up of Donald Trump's lies that they are not coming behind this war. And our poll found the same thing that, you know, a majority of Americans disapprove of the war. But we asked another question as well, which was why do you think we went to war? On whose behalf did we go to war? What was Donald Trump's goal in going to war? And there were some fascinating results.
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Tara Palmeri
Yeah, it was very fascinating. And I think it's reflective of the era that we're living in right now where everything is, you know, there we don't really trust our leaders anymore, especially after the war in Iraq and Afghanistan, you know, the COVID up and with the Epstein files a lot, the disenchantment with how the government handled, handled Covid for Example. So it does, it makes sense that everyone is sort of like clinging to a wag the dog type of reason for a war that we weren't expecting. Because like you said, I mean, when George Bush went into Iraq and Afghanistan, he spent many, many months lobbying Congress. He spent many months making the case of weapons of mass destruction to the American people. We didn't get that for Iran. We've been told for years and years and years Iran is six weeks away from a weapon of mass destruction. And we have. It just has never happened. But suddenly we wake up one Saturday just like Venezuela and a.
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Mehdi Hasan
And we're in war, just like Venezuela, just like Nigeria. Remember, we bombed Nigeria on Christmas Day. Don't forget about that random, random bombing campaign of Nigeria. Christmas day was Nigeria. January 3rd was Venezuela. This is the peace president. And February 28th, we go to war in Iran. And as you say, I mean, I'm old enough to remember the Iraq war. I marched against the Iraq war. I was 22, 23 years old. But at least, and I have to go take a shower now after saying this, at least Dick Cheney and George Bush and Tony Blair went to the UN to try and get a resolution. They failed to do so, but at least they tried. Colin Powell went with a little vial. At least George Bush went to Congress and got Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden and others to vote for an authorization for the use of military force in October of 2002. These guys don't care. They don't care about the U.N. of course, they don't care about Congress. They just did it right. And even now, Donald Trump won't do a proper explanation as to what the war is for, who it's for. So the public, of course, have reacted to naturally, in a skeptical way. When we polled the American public last week for Zatteo and Dropsite, we found that the public are split on whether Trump went to war for American interests or Israeli interests, which is an astonishing split. 46, 47, like dead split of the public. That's crazy. You can't think of a previous war where half the country think, you didn't go to war for us, you didn't go to war for our country. You went for a foreign country, which shows the frustration also with Israel's role in our foreign policy and in our politics, which an NBC News poll today also shows. Tara, I don't know if you've seen the NBC News poll. No, I did this morning. Phenomenal change in attitudes amongst the American public. Complete switch from Democrats and independents from 10 years ago on whether they support Israel or the Palestinians, and they become much more pro Palestinian, much more anti Israeli, the American public as a whole. And then the other question we asked, because we thought it was worth asking and we're so glad we asked, was, do you think this war was driven? And you mentioned this. You said, wag the dog. People watching this who are younger than you and I, Tara, they may not know the wag the dog reference. Fantastic Robert De Niro movie, which is all about a president who goes to war to distract from an affair, from a domestic political scandal, creates a fake war with fake videos. Donald Trump, of course, was not distracting from his affairs. He already got away with all those. He was distracting from his relationship with Jeffrey Epstein and these Epstein files that have been coming out since December, January, and destroying his poll ratings, destroying his approval ratings. So we asked a natural question, which is, do you think this war, at least partly, was done to distract from Jeffrey Epstein and the Epstein files? And the answer was 52% of Americans, a clear majority against, 40% said, yes, we do think Epstein was a role in this war? Which is, again, astonishing when you compare it to polling for previous wars. What you might think is a conspiracy theory is backed by a majority of Americans. In fact, amongst Democrats, you won't be surprised to hear 81% of Democrats think Epstein was a factor in the war. A majority of independents also think it was a factor in the war. And here's my favorite stat. One in four Republicans say, yeah, we think Epstein played a role in this war. A quarter of Republicans.
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Tara Palmeri
It's incredible. And it really is the important question. You know, I was, I went to Doral, his golf course, this past week to go to the press conference, the first press press conference he actually did after they declared war. It was almost 11 days. We were getting mixed messages from Hegseth, from these, you know, random questions. He would take, phone calls from reporters. Just all this murkiness around the war in Iran, right, that, that we're all supposed to buy into, that we're all supposed to pay for economically, not just from the fact that it costs over $1 billion a day to go to war, but also at the pump in other ways. But, you know, reporters never really got a chance to ask any questions in a press conference like setting against Trump, against. With Trump. And I asked one of the reporters of the New York Times and the Washington Post are part of the press corps. I said, well, have they asked yet if it's, if he did it because of Epstein? And they said, no. No one's asked that yet. Like not even in when he does his scrums. Not even one of these many reporters who get phone calls with him. I mean, I have his number. Many do you call him? He will answer. And I, and I said, well, if I get a chance, which I didn't because I was behind a very tall woman and I wasn't a part of the traveling press pool, which gets to be in the front row. But yeah, I said, well, why don't we just ask him What?
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Mehdi Hasan
Tara, Tara, call him. Max Tney called him on Saturday, didn't answer. But you should call him and ask him about Epstein because you're right, it's insane that we don't answer the obvious question that the American public are thinking about right away. The Google searches, just for people to be aware. Up until Iran, the Google searches on Epstein were all up, up, up, up. You look at the graph and if you look since February, it's dropped. So in that sense they've done what they set out to achieve, which is we're not talking about Epstein right now. Just like they tried to do with Venezuela at the start of the year when there was a big batch of Epstein files. But we're not talking about Epstein. I don't think that's sustainable. I think we will be talking about Epstein again. I think they've just, you know, put it off for a little bit. But I don't think the Epstein story is going anywhere. The Democrats have finally latched onto it. We know we're seeing investigations of the New Mexico ranch that's going on right now. If something comes out of that, there's no way they're going to be able to like cover that up at this point. So I don't think it's gone away long term, but short term they've managed to distract us all, which they're very good at doing. But you're right, they're enabled by a press corps that very rarely asks important follow up questions or asks what Americans are thinking about. You know, still operate by old conventions and deference. You saw, I'm sure, Tara on Air Force One over the weekend, him batting away questions from the ABC producer who was part of the pool, who asked a question about why was he fundraising off of pictures of coffins and he just said, you're obnoxious, you're abc, you're fake news. I'll take the next question. And of course my question always is, why don't the other reporters back each other up? But that's a conversation for another day.
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Tara Palmeri
It's so true. And I do remember this, and someone warned me about this before I became a White House correspondent, that they are essentially all sheep and they are going in a lot of the same direction. And, you know, when Trump says to you, or they say, you know, first of all, now we know that they will use their power to block your news organization out of the Oval Office. And when you are so reliant on photographs and footage and quotes for your wire service, for broadcast, etc, like you, you are, you are under control. You're at their mercy. And then, and then the other thing, too is if you ask the question, you know, you know, you can even say Thomas Massie, a congressman, said that no strike in Iran will overshadow the Epstein story. Are you trying to change the narrative? And you pin it on someone who has said this, a member of Congress, publicly, They'll say, batted away and say, this is ridiculous that you would ask a question like, yeah, you got super
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Mehdi Hasan
mad the other day at a reporter. Well, how could you ask that here at this event about the FIFA. Yeah, no, they're all, they're all slow.
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Tara Palmeri
We're in the middle of a war. And that's all you can ask. Like, make it seem like you're, you're trivial. Or.
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Mehdi Hasan
Although it's funny that they're in the middle of a war, but they'll happily take questions about the ballroom.
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Tara Palmeri
Oh, right. Exactly. Well, that is. Yeah. I mean, the public perception is certainly changing. Right. And, and even our allies, President Trump is shocked, as we see in a lot of the reporting today, that our allies are not really willing to go to the Strait of Hormuz and, and try to facilitate any sort of movement or engage in warfare. I mean, they're not that we wanted to invade Denmark the other day, if I'm, if I can remember that. Right. But, yeah, no, that was one of
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Mehdi Hasan
the many countries he wanted to invade. I mean, look, the Europeans are all over the place. They didn't come out strongly enough against the illegal attack on Iran. I saw British government ministers falling over one another, not to say it was illegal, but on the other hand, they know that they are next and they know that they can't be relied on to be pulled into a war that their publics don't want at all. The Spanish prime minister is a bit of a hero right now. He's the only European leader who stood up to Trump publicly. The rest of them are sheep, like the White House press corps, as you mentioned. They kind of, you know, follow along Mumble along. But, you know, my colleague Swin Soup Sang reported for Zateo this morning that, you know, U.S. officials are admitting to him that European countries are saying, we're not going to die for your president who.
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Tara Palmeri
We've already done that before. We've done that.
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Mehdi Hasan
Yeah, we've done that. We did it. A, didn't work out so well, and B, at least George Bush pretended to care about European views, pretended to be friends with Tony Blair. To get the British on board, Donald Trump sent a message to the UK publicly on his social media platform to America's closest ally, supposedly saying, thanks, but no thanks, uk, I don't need your help now. You've come too late. Well, turns out he does need their help. Turns out he does need the French and the Germans and the rest of them and the Canadians. And it'll be interesting to see what they do going forward. But now is a moment for them really to get their act together, because as you say, look, Denmark, Greenland, you're next. The more successful wars he pulls off, the more he wants. Donald Trump is not the peace president. He is the warmonger that many of us said he would be.
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Tara Palmeri
Yeah. You know, there is a story that really breaks my heart. And I know you feel the same way. I'm sure. I mean, if you have a pulse and a heart, a beating heart, you would feel horrible that on the first day of this war, we killed more than 175 people, most of them little girls and teachers at a school in southern Iran. And I say we killed them because all of the evidence points, points to the fact that there are four countries with access to Tomahawk missiles. We are one of them, and the UK are the only others that actually have them in their possession. And yet President Trump said at a press conference that Iran may have shot a Tomahawk missile at their own school.
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Mehdi Hasan
Yeah.
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Tara Palmeri
And I mean, and in your, in your.
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Mehdi Hasan
He's even walked that back, Tara. He now says we're the only people with ts. So classic Trump says things to contradict himself. Often all the evidence suggests we bomb that school and they're having an investigation. This sounds like the Israeli narrative in Gaza where they blow up a school or hospital and say, we're going to investigate ourselves. Do you trust a Peter Hexith Pentagon investigation of itself? I don't. The media at least broke this story. The New York Times, cnn, others identified the fact that this was. Bellingcat, which is an independent outlet, identified this stuff. We knew from day one. The moment I knew it was The Americans was when the Israeli said, well, it wasn't us, which was Israel throwing America under the bus. And I thought, all right, then definitely it was America. Because if they wanted to blame Iran, they would have blamed Iran. But they very carefully said it wasn't Israel that bombed the school, I. E. It was the other party in this war and the U.S. look, you can say it was an accident. You could say it was based on old intel. They're using AI Tara to come up with a thousand targets a day. So of course there are going to be mistakes. That's outrageous that we're outsourcing war fighting to AI Now. And I listen to Peter Hexus say, I don't believe in stupid rules of engagement. And I think to myself, was it an accident? Yeah. The assumption should be it's an accident. Why would we deliberately bomb a school? But when you have people like Pete Hes in charge, who's written a book saying we don't need to care about the Geneva Conventions, we don't need to care about war crimes, A man who carries Christian crusader tattoos on his body, when he says we don't care about stupid rules of engagement, this is not a politically correct war, then you have to ask the question, what the hell are we doing bombing that school? Not once, by the way. Twice. It was a double tap strike.
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Tara Palmeri
Oh, God. And I just want to go back to your polling, by the way. 32% of people have not heard about this. This is. Should be a national outrage.
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Mehdi Hasan
Yes. It's a failure of our media, though, Tara. It's a failure of our media. I'm sorry. The only people you blame for that are the media. The New York Times put the bombing of that school when it first happened on page A11 of the paper.
- [19:53]
Tara Palmeri
Wow. 23 had, quote, heard a little. 29 of people that you pulled said they had heard some. Only 16 had heard a lot. I mean, it gives me chills when I think about it. And this is day one of our
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Mehdi Hasan
broken media looks like. Tara, I'm sorry to say this is why I'm happy to be an independent media, because I enjoyed myself working at some of the big media outlets. But when it comes to issues of war and peace in particular, our media fails us when it comes to foreign policy and foreign affairs. Even more than domestic politics, our media fails as we don't. We don't talk about our victims in the same way that we do at home. We dehumanize people abroad. I mean, just imagine if Iran had bombed an Israeli school and killed 170 Israeli schoolgirls. Their photos would be on our TV every day. Their names would be all over the newspapers. We would be talking about nothing else in Congress here. We killed a bunch of Iranians, but because they're Iranians, they're brown, they're Muslim, whatever. We don't care. It's not a big issue. Speaker Johnson is not holding discussions or debates on the floor of the Congress.
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Tara Palmeri
I 1000% agree with you. I. I mean, it would be like the hostage situation in. In Israel. It would be at the same level in the US If. If we truly cared. I mean, we did this. It wasn't like we were. It was Hamas who. Who took these Israeli people and. And made them hostages. We killed them. We Americans paid for it.
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Mehdi Hasan
We paid for the.
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Tara Palmeri
We killed them. And. And there are no trials. There should be trials going on right now.
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Mehdi Hasan
Trials. There won't even be anybody fired for it. You watch. Not a single person. They'll blame it on some technical error, if they even do that. Look, this is the Israeli playbook, Tara. For two and a half years, they did whatever they wanted in Gaza, and they said, we'll investigate it. And no soldiers went to prison for killing innocent people in Gaza or sniping children or whatever it is. Nobody was forced to resign from the Israeli government in shame over any kind of targeting issues. They just dropped the charges in Israel against five soldiers accused of gang raping a Palestinian detainee. So the culture of impunity in Israel, we're just borrowing that? It's the same thing now in the American government. Pete Hegseth, all these guys, they're saying, well, you know what? This is the new world order now. You do what you want. Anyone can dare to stop us. Why should we? And we have a useless opposition party. We have a useless media. So who's holding these people to account?
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Tara Palmeri
Yeah. Okay, Mehdi, obviously, I'm going to reveal my age. I'm 38. I was a little bit younger, you know, when the. The war. During the war in Iraq and Afghanistan. But do you ever remember.
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Mehdi Hasan
Thanks for rubbing it in. I was. I'm 46.
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Tara Palmeri
Yeah, those 10 years can make a difference, but I.
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Mehdi Hasan
Calm down.
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Tara Palmeri
Yes, I'm right. Can you, like, do you recall an act against civilians in Iraq or Afghanistan to that extent?
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Mehdi Hasan
No. No. I followed both wars closely, and I followed the massacres that were also ignored, by the way. We've also never really had accountability for what happened in Iraq and Afghanistan. George Bush and Tony Blair have never headed for the Hague to answer Questions there. But, you know, there were massacres in Iraq, like the Haditha Massacre, which was later made into a movie where American Marines went crazy and gunned people down and murdered people en masse in a town in Iraq. There were massacres in Afghanistan, airstrikes that bombed weddings. Right. We bombed weddings in Afghanistan that we thought were Taliban gatherings, but they were just Afghan tribal weddings. We killed dozens and dozens of innocent people, but I can't think of one where we killed 160 kids in a single strike on the first day of the war. By the way, the controversies, the massacres in Iraq, Afghanistan, they came years into the conflict. They didn't happen on day one.
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Tara Palmeri
They were sort of checked out and they were, they were a little bit more checked out of the war.
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Mehdi Hasan
Yeah. After we were stuck at a quagmire and fighting, losing battles against insurgents. This was day one of the war with supposedly the greatest military fighting force in the history of the world, all of our AI from Claude and Maven, Palantir Technologies. And they bombed a school and then they lied about it, and Donald Trump lied about it, saying it was Iran.
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Tara Palmeri
It's incredible. And we're hoping that the Iranians will be on our side. Right, for this inevitable people. Yeah, the Iranian, Iranian people. Because you can't really install a government without having them on your side. Yes, essentially. And I, I, I don't know what your sources are like on the ground there, but has this, is this must have demoralized them. This has, must have them not willing to trust us, or are they just. So do they hate the, the Shah, the leader, Ayatollah, so much that they.
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Mehdi Hasan
I'm sure some do. It's hard, it's hard to make sweeping judgments either on the diaspora or on the Iranian country. One of the problems we have is it's not a democracy, so you don't have, you know, vote totals. You don't have free polling. This has been the problem throughout. When people try and speak on behalf of a big group of people, no one's a monolith. Certainly 80, 90 million people, Iran are not a monolith. There are people who support the government, There are people who hate the government. There are people who just want to keep their heads down and survive like any other place in the world. What I would say is, if you look at the excellent reporting that's been done by the ft, for example, in the UK or the BBC, and actually, to be fair, NBC News also did the similar reporting where they went and spoke to pro war Iranians under Cover of anonymity. Obviously they can't give their names. People in Iran who were living in Tehran, who said, we were welcoming this, we wanted America and Israel to bomb. We, we were gung ho, come save us from the ayatollahs. Those people are now saying, we didn't expect this. We didn't expect you'd kill us. We didn't expect you'd blow up our oil depots or damage our cultural institutions or blow up schools. We didn't want this. So even the people who were pro war Iranians are saying to foreign reporters under cover of anonymity where they can speak freely, this is not what we wanted or expected.
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Tara Palmeri
Wow. Well, on that note, thank you for your amazing reporting, your polling, for putting money into it. Polling is not cheap. I saw that you did 1200 web participations.
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Mehdi Hasan
Expensive. That's why independent journalism, we all need support from people watching.
- [25:48]
Tara Palmeri
Exactly. And. And you did. And you did some polling on the ground as well. Like focus style reporting, or is it mostly.
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Mehdi Hasan
No, we did polling with data for progress, but that's something we do want to do. Focus grouping is a. Is again, very expensive, time consuming. If we want to compete with the big boys, which we do, this stuff costs tens of thousands of dollars. So I just want to let subscribers know. People who are subscribers to Zataya, people are subscribers to yours. Support independent journalism because you've got to put your money where your mouth is. It's very easy to say, well, I don't like mainstream media, I like corporate media. What are you doing about it? To support those of us who are trying to provide an alternative.
- [26:20]
Tara Palmeri
Right. And it's really important that we get those questions that often the American people, they know when they're being fed dog food. I would say it happened in the last administration and it happens in this administration and it happened in the administration before that. And we're smarter than that. And it's, it's great to have independent journalism. It kills the bureaucracy that exists in journalism. The coziness among the elites at the top, where the top, the heads of news agencies are just as close with the politicians are supposed to be covering. And that's where the problem rots, 100%. All right, thanks so much for coming on the show. We really appreciate it, everybody. Support Zattao, Tara Palmeri show, the Red Letter. And we, we appreciate your support for independent journalism.
- [27:06]
Mehdi Hasan
Thanks so much.
- [27:07]
Tara Palmeri
That was another episode of the Tara Palmieri Show. Thank you so much for tuning in. If you like this show, just hit that subscribe button. Follow Rate it, Comment Share it with all your friends. That's how you keep this going. You keep the algorithm picking me up right. And it's a great way to show your support. You can go to tarapalm.com and sign up for my newsletter, the Red Letter. I can get my exclusive reporting straight to your inbox. By becoming a paid subscriber, you support this important independent journalism. You get the questions asked that you you want and you make sure that corporate media is not holding back the questions that you are thinking. I want to thank my producer, Dan Schiffmacher. I want to thank Abby Baker who produced, booked and did social media for this show. Adam Stewart on the graphics. Dan Rosen, my manager. See you again.
- [28:05]
Commercial Narrator
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