NEW Epstein Photos: What They Really Reveal

Summary

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The Tara Palmeri Show

Episode: NEW Epstein Photos: What They Really Reveal

Date: December 12, 2025
Host: Tara Palmeri
Guest/Co-host: UnderTheDeskNews (“V” in transcript, aka Virginia Giuffre; note: Virginia Giuffre is a key survivor in the Epstein case, but here “V” and Virginia Giuffre are used interchangeably, possibly referencing the same or another survivor, or the UnderTheDeskNews host acting as spokesperson for victims)

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Episode Overview

Tara Palmeri, acclaimed investigative journalist, dives into the latest batch of 19 photos released by the House Oversight Committee from the Jeffrey Epstein estate. Joined by the incisive UnderTheDeskNews (“V”), they analyze what these new images reveal—and don’t reveal—about Epstein’s network of power, the mounting pressure for transparency, and what is (and isn’t) expected in the upcoming DOJ release of Epstein files. The hosts scrutinize arguments over who knew what, address recurring attempts to minimize or obscure associations with Epstein, and explore the ongoing dangers of unchecked power.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. What’s New in the Photo Dump? (00:30 - 03:25)

• Scope of Release:
  The House Oversight Committee released 19 photos from the Epstein estate, not to be confused with the still-unreleased "Epstein files."
• Who’s in the Photos:
  Faces include Bill Gates, Bill Clinton, Steve Bannon, Prince Andrew, King Charles (cropped in one), Richard Branson, Alan Dershowitz, and Donald Trump—all documented associates.
• Nature of Photos:
  Most images are familiar to those who've closely followed the case, but some are new. Trump’s photos are particularly “suggestive,” always around women, often redacted for their faces—especially notable at the 1997 Victoria's Secret Fashion Show.
• Political Reaction:
  The Trump White House calls it a hoax and accuses Democrats of cherry-picking, but “seeing is believing.”
  Quote [Tara Palmeri, 02:07]:
  “What universe does she live on? ... He has literally been saying, this should go away. It's a hoax. I don't want anything to do with this. And bullying members to not vote to release the Epstein files for months. Transparency. No, he wanted this to go away.”

2. The Purpose and Impact of These Photos (05:00 - 07:42)

• Blackmail Material or Social Mementos?
  These are believed to be everyday snapshots Epstein kept in his house—possibly blackmail, likely artifacts of his world.
• The “Awkwardness” Myth Debunked:
  Everyone in the photos looks comfortable, dispelling myths they were forced into Epstein’s circle—particularly Trump.
  Quote [Virginia Giuffre, 05:20]:
  “Anyone who wants to be like, I was forced to hang out with Epstein when, against my will, everybody looks pretty freaking happy right there.”
• Sexualized Imagery & Redactions:
  Multiple pictures show very young women; faces are redacted for protection, but clear evidence of a predatory environment is visible everywhere.

3. Political Calculations and Coverups (06:22 - 09:59)

• House Oversight’s Approach:
  Rep. Robert Garcia emphasizes the goal of transparency but within legal boundaries, prioritizing victim protection.
• Public Perception Shift:
  These pictures undermine the “I didn’t know, I was naive” defense among powerful associates, including Bannon and Gates.
• Bill Gates’ Attempts at Reputation Management:
  Gates’ legal team once sent cease & desists about rumors, actively monitoring his associations for damage control. Quote [Interviewer, 08:23]:
  “They really are monitoring to see where his name shows up and everything.”

4. The Fate of Epstein’s Properties: Possible Evidence Destruction? (09:59 - 12:25)

• Posthumous Property Overhauls:
  Epstein’s Palm Beach and NYC properties were bulldozed or gutted soon after being sold, raising suspicions about erasing crime scenes.
• Real Estate Rivalries:
  The Trump-Epstein soured friendship is revisited—Trump lost a bidding war to Epstein, flipped the property to a Russian oligarch for a massive profit.

5. Internet Conspiracies & Redactions (12:25 - 14:35)

• Misidentified Individuals:
  Online speculation misidentifies some figures in the photos (e.g., Pam Bondi). Most images are public; few are truly new.
• Strategic Redactions & Chopped Royalty:
  King Charles’ face was removed from photos; certain whiteboard scribbles were obscured, fueling fresh but mostly unfounded speculation.

6. Objectification, Power, and Body Language (13:34 - 14:35)

• Analyzing Interactions:
  The demeanor and posture of men in photos (Trump, Epstein, Clinton, Bannon) display comfort, camaraderie, and a sense of impunity. Quote [Interviewer, 14:23]:
  “The posture that these people have in these pictures is friendly. They're not threatened by him at all. They're very happy.”

7. Unseen Evidence and DOJ Delays (17:27 - 21:16)

• Disappointment with Public Disclosures:
  Many known perpetrators’ names have still not appeared in the files so far.
• Imminent DOJ File Release:
  Anxieties about redactions, victim confidentiality, and government delays as the release date looms. Quote [Virginia Giuffre, 19:18]:
  “I just. I don't know how they're going to do it by next Friday. ... They don't even have a process for redactions, and they're a week away, and we've only seen such a small percentage of the 300 gigabytes of files that they have.”

8. Lack of Justice and Consequences for Victims (21:28 - 23:36)

• Institutional Cynicism:
  DOJ is accused of caring little for real accountability. Political figures (e.g., Pam Bondi) previously denied third-party culpability.
  • House Democrats possess 95,000 photos, DOJ has 300GB of data—its real status is unknown.
• Leaks and the Role of Journalists:
  Some materials or information are already on Reddit or shared among journalists, but disclosure is legally and ethically fraught. Quote [Virginia Giuffre, 22:46]:
  “It's not that I have, like, obscene files. I just have information that, like, you were her friend. It's hard to back up, because the person who gave me that information is now dead.”

9. Systemic Exploitation and the Modeling Pipeline (26:19 - 28:52)

• Modeling, Beauty, and Exploitation:
  Epstein and Jean Luc Brunel’s agencies recruited young Eastern European girls under false pretenses, often controlling them by seizing passports and funds.
  • Virginia notes that “ambitious” girls were especially vulnerable to being trafficked under the guise of legitimate opportunity. Quote [Virginia Giuffre, 28:29]:
    “They would come to this country being told they would become models ... They become essentially sex slaves.”

10. Cultural Critique: Pageants, Content, and Women’s Agency (28:50 - 32:47)

• New Pipelines of Exploitation:
  Pageantry and social media influencer culture now promise young girls fame/fortune but often under exploitative conditions (e.g., “Bop House” as an OnlyFans pipeline).
• Empowerment Through Education:
  Both hosts strongly advocate for young women to gain skills, education, and self-sufficiency.

11. The Ongoing Danger of Elites Above the Law (23:55 - 25:54; 38:21 - 39:32)

• No Policy Change, No Accountability:
  Many powerful people remain protected. Victims continue to be failed by institutions and political inertia.
• Structural Anger:
  Epstein’s network reflects a broader American power structure that insulates the elite and perpetuates exploitation.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On transparency:
  “Seeing is believing. For a lot of people who question whether he was close with Jeffrey Epstein. I mean, look at all the pictures of them together.”
  — Tara Palmeri, [00:54]

• On the environment in Epstein’s house:
  “You could not walk into this man's house and not think it was creepy. She said the girls walked around naked often ... and there were pictures of young girls all over the house.”
  — Virginia Giuffre, [07:16]

• On DOJ urgency:
  “They created a victim hotline ... New victims are coming forward. They don't have a master database. They don't even have a process for redactions.”
  — Virginia Giuffre, [19:19]

• On the enduring culture of silence:
  “Really powerful people can keep their names concealed, the crimes they committed concealed, and not pay anything at all.”
  — Virginia Giuffre, [23:28]

• On modeling agencies as trafficking fronts:
  “They would come to this country being told they would become models ... they become essentially sex slaves.”
  — Virginia Giuffre, [28:29]

• On gendered expectations:
  “If I could encourage young girls, I'd say, go to school. No matter how pretty you are.”
  — Virginia Giuffre, [28:50]

• On contemporary online exploitation:
  “What the pageant circuit promised young teenage girls... is what content creation is promising them now... Is this trafficking pipeline into like the new young Hollywood.”
  — Interviewer, [33:17]

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Timeline of Key Segments

• [00:30] Explanation of new photo dump; who's pictured and why the images matter
• [02:01] White House response and criticism; Tara calls out official statements
• [05:00] V breaks down what these photos really mean; the “everyone looks happy” narrative
• [07:16] Creepy environment at Epstein’s house described first-hand
• [09:59] Discussion of suspicious property sales and evidence destruction
• [12:25 - 14:13] Disputing online conspiracy theories about identity in photos; redactions discussed
• [17:27] V expresses disappointment at missing names in files; anticipation for actual DOJ release
• [19:19] DOJ’s struggles with redaction and ongoing victim identification
• [21:28] Skepticism towards DOJ, Pam Bondi’s denials, and the possibility of leaks
• [26:19] Deep dive into how modeling, beauty, and show business made girls vulnerable to trafficking
• [28:50 - 32:47] Modern corollaries to “modeling pipeline” exploitation—social media, content houses, and female agency
• [38:21] Reflection on how deeply Epstein’s reach infiltrated American society
• [39:36] Tara’s next steps: watch for DOJ document dump, continued reporting

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Final Thoughts

Tara Palmeri and V/UnderTheDeskNews guide listeners through the real meaning and context behind the latest Epstein photo drop. They connect dots between the power elite’s patterns of denial, the credibility of evidence, the perverse incentives of ambition, and society’s repeated failure to protect the vulnerable. The upcoming release of the full DOJ Epstein files is presented as a potential turning point but with little optimism for unvarnished truth. Throughout, they reinforce the need for public pressure, institutional accountability, and personal vigilance, especially for women and young people aspiring to power or celebrity.

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Follow-up Info:

• Tara Palmeri’s investigative content and newsletter: tarapalmieri.com

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Transcript

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[Tara Palmieri]

Welcome back to the Tower of Palmieri Show. The House oversight committee dropped 19 new photos from the Epstein estate. These aren't the Epstein files. These are just documents handed over from the Epstein estate. And they show a lot of the faces of Epstein's closest friends, like Bill Gates, Bill Clinton, Steve Bannon, the former Prince Andrew, even King Charles in one of these pictures, which Richard Branson, Alan Dershowitz, and of course, President Trump. Now, these are all men who are on the flight logs. They're in the little black book. We've seen them exchange emails with Epstein. We know they were his friends. So none of it is too surprising. A few of them are new, but for the most part, they're pictures I've seen before. But I've also been knee deep in this story for a really long time. The interesting thing is that the pictures of President Trump, they're all a bit more suggestive than the others. They're all mostly with women. One is at the 1997 Victoria's Secrets Fashion show. There's another one where he is surrounded by women and their faces are all blacked out, obviously redacted by the House Democrats. There's a weird Donald Trump condom, too, that says I'm huge. It's some sort of gag, I guess. Of course, the White House is calling it a hoax and they're accusing Democrats of cherry picking pictures. I don't know how the. The actual pictures are a hoax. To me, seeing is believing. For a lot of people who question whether he was close with Jeffrey Epstein. I mean, look at all the pictures of them together.

[Virginia Giuffre]

They're friends. He seems happy.

[Tara Palmieri]

He does not seem like he was being forced to hang out with Jeffrey Epstein. But I do want to quote Caroline Levitt, the spokesperson for the White House. This is just mind blowing what she said. The Trump administration has done more for Epstein's victims than Democrats ever have by repeatedly calling for transparency. What. What universe does she live on? He has literally been saying, this should go away. It's a hoax. I don't want anything to do with this. And bullying members to not vote to release the Epstein files for months. Transparency. No, he wanted this to go away. But, you know, take a look at some of these Pictures. There isn't that much new in this dump, at least not for people who have been following closely.

[Interviewer/Host]

I'm.

[Tara Palmieri]

I wasn't really too surprised. But I'm going to talk about all of this, what it all means. Remember, these aren't the Epstein files. These are just documents that were handed over. Subpoenaed documents from Epstein's estate to the House oversight committee. And we do have a week way the actual files are they're due. Will they be ready? Will we see them? Will they be completely, you know, transparent or will it be mostly redacted? And going to talk about all of that with V. You know her under the desk news. She's a huge star and she seems to really always get to the heart of the issue.

[Virginia Giuffre]

So take a listen.

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[Interviewer/Host]

So folks who are just joining, thank you for joining me in. Tara Palmer Terra Palmieri. Hottest ticket on the Epstein drop days. Everybody tries to get Tara on their show for Epstein drop days and I'm so glad that you always make the time. For us, as we were just chatting, next Friday is allegedly when the DOJ has to drop the Epstein files which are separate from the estate photos that we got today, right?

[Virginia Giuffre]

Yeah, they are. This is totally different. These are just basically the pictures that Epstein would hang around his house or like held onto for possible Probably a blackmail at some point. Who knows? But, yeah, this is not the Epstein files. This is just. I've seen a lot of these pictures. Some of them are new, but it's like, if seeing is believing, then here you go. This is. These are his friends. These are the guys in the. On the. In the flight logs. I mean, these are people who are in the black book. These are people who spent time with him, who emailed with him. They are. These are. This is his life. Like, this is his universe. So there you go. Anyone who wants to be like, I was forced to hang out with Epstein when, against my will, everybody looks pretty freaking happy right there. And, you know, particularly the pictures of President Trump. Like, he's the one who's with women in these pictures. The Victoria's secret model in 1997. At the show, he, you know, is pictured with a number of women. We don't know who they are. Their faces are blacked out, obviously to protect their identities. Then on the flight, I'm assuming it's Lolita Express, because he used to, you know, use his jet to go down to Palm Beach. So, you know, doesn't look like he's hanging out with Epstein against his will. Neither do the rest of them. They all look very comfy and cozy with him.

[Interviewer/Host]

Well, I think that that is the greater purpose in these particular photos, because I got to meet with Robert Garcia and ask him, like, you know, how are you making decisions about what to release and when? And he's like, it's our goal to release everything that we have to the public as we are able to, like, vet it as, like, appropriate and make sure we're not breaking any laws by posting some of these pictures, because some of them are really awful and making sure that the victims are, of course, protected. And to me, this completely kills the narrative that any of these people were unaware of what Jeffrey Epstein was doing or that it was awkward for them. Their posture in the pictures. Like, even Steve Bannon, he's leaned back. He's very comfortable there. It wasn't his first time. And then there are pictures of what, to me, appear to be very young women everywhere. They're hanging on the wall. They're on his desk. There are pictures of children everywhere. There is no way that you could say, I didn't find it weird at his house, at least.

[Virginia Giuffre]

No, I mean, that was one thing that Virginia Jufri always said to me. You could not walk into this man's house and not think it was creepy. She said the girls walked around naked often Especially at the Palm beach house. He liked tan bodies with no tan lines. And there were pictures of young girls all over the house, like on the walls. And he's an older man hanging out with all of these young girls.

[Tara Palmieri]

It's weird.

[Virginia Giuffre]

And. And like, even Michael Wolf in his.

[Tara Palmieri]

Piece, he was like, you know, he.

[Virginia Giuffre]

Said that they were. He basically wrote in his piece that he let Epstein scene advance, breaking basically every journalistic rule that he like, oh, he always has women around him. I mean, they were. He called them women. That may have been a stylistic choice, but, yeah, this was Jeffrey. Jeffrey Epstein. His world was about being around young girls. Like, that was what made him cool. Like, that's why he wanted to go hang out with Jeffrey Epstein, because he lived like the Bachelor and someone like Bill Gates wanted to hang out there at night.

[Interviewer/Host]

I'm very interested in that because Bill Gates is one of the only people who has ever sent me a cease and desist before. And it was a long time ago. And it came from a woman at his desk who said that the way had made a TikTok. I said that Bill Gates had. Was on the island and he wasn't on the island, and they wanted a retraction that Bill Gates was not on the island. And. But he was, of course, in his company and that that mattered to them. And it's the only one I ever got. And I ignored it because I was panicked. And when I panicked, that's what I do. I ignore things. But then years ago, nothing ever happened. Nothing ever happened. But I was like, whoa, he saw my little TikTok. This was way before I was like anything. I was like, they really are monitoring to see where his name shows up and everything. And his wife.

[Virginia Giuffre]

This was a huge hit, like an.

[Interviewer/Host]

Egregious offense in their marriage that was related to him. I have to wonder, like, what does that mean, you know?

[Virginia Giuffre]

Well, first of all, I. I think a lot of people saw that you are. You are a star. You are extremely charismatic. And I think for him too, he saw the bubbling up of the story and the relevance. And so he's tried to zap it any way he could. Um, and he's had to pay a really big price for it, deservingly. And I think for. And that's why these pictures are so important, because for everyone who wants to call it a hoax, that is, you have to be able to see Epstein in his element and the men around him in his element, all seeming very quite comfortable.

[Interviewer/Host]

One of the things that I'm waiting to come out is the financial records. And that's what we've been really digging into over here. And that takes a really long time. And. And the thing that I keep running into that maybe you know a little bit more about is, like, they sold the Palm beach house to some guy, right? And I'm. I'm like, okay, somebody was going to buy. People buy terrible properties all the time, but then that guy bulldozed that house, right? And then he built on top of it. Like, in every case, it seems like when they bought the guy who bought the Epstein townhouse in New York City, had it fully gutted before he did anything. And it feels a little bit like destroying evidence to me more than, like, trying to make a better situation out of a bad place. What do you think about, like, the turnover of his houses and these, like, crime scenes and the way they've been sort of, like, bleached out by the folks who have built. Purchased them? You think I'm overreacting?

[Virginia Giuffre]

No, I think they probably saw that the value of the house being, like, erected and having that juju was probably going to be bad for the value of the actual place. And also, it was waterfront property in Palm beach, so they were probably. Probably just like, let's raise this. And mostly what? Like, really rich people just want their own thing. Like, they don't want somebody else's house. They want their own house.

[Interviewer/Host]

So, you know, one conspiracy down, it wasn't that they're. But because I'm so interested in Zorro Branch, too. Like, what the hell's going on out there?

[Virginia Giuffre]

He's a state is just like, we need to. Like, we need to get through this in a way that they're lawyers. Like, they probably. They have a problematic client. Well, yeah, no, I do think it's interesting, though. I mean, who knows? I do. The thing that was super fascinating to me, too, was like, the fight between Trump and Epstein over real estate, the House of Friends, which broke them up, allegedly. And then, you know, Trump was pissed because Epstein bid on the same place and it made him pay more. And Trump is cheap and didn't want to pay more for the house. He ends up flipping it a year later, some Russian oligarch for, like, double $96 million, something he paid $30 million for, $40 million for not a year. It may have been more than that, but it was like, very short period of time. Yeah. It was not like he had hold on this for decades. It's almost like, well, what. What's going on there, kids?

[Interviewer/Host]

Let me ask you now that we've debunked one of my conspiracy theories. The Internet has some conspiracies about some of these photos. And so. Like this one here.

[Virginia Giuffre]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

People think that's Pam Bondi.

[Virginia Giuffre]

No, it's not.

[Interviewer/Host]

Okay, moving on.

[Virginia Giuffre]

I don't think it's.

[Interviewer/Host]

I don't think so either. I get that she's a blonde woman, whatever. But I was like, that doesn't really look like Pam Bondi to me, but.

[Virginia Giuffre]

I think I know who that girl is, to be honest. Like, if I. From the. Like, her hairline and the shape. Yeah. I've seen pictures of her before.

[Interviewer/Host]

Do you think that they asked to have their faces redacted in this way? Is it like. I think they're just like, why not this one?

[Virginia Giuffre]

You know, she's a famous model.

[Interviewer/Host]

Oh, she's a famous model. So they're like, okay, people know who that is.

[Virginia Giuffre]

Yeah, yeah. And that's on Getty. Like, that's the thing. Some. I think only. Only a few of these pictures are actually new. A lot of them are public photos. I thought it was interesting that the House Oversight Committee chopped off King Charles out of one of the pictures. The one that Prince Andrew. Former Prince Andrew is in.

[Interviewer/Host]

He was in that one too.

[Virginia Giuffre]

Yeah. And they, like, chopped his face out of it, which was.

[Interviewer/Host]

They redacted some stuff on that chalkboard, too, that. That photo from the Last Drop had already been out with that redactions, so there's some goofy stuff going on. The other thing I found interesting was, like, their mannerisms in this photo. This is when they're staring at that model and like, when do you ever see Jeffrey Epstein or Donald Trump tight lipped? Like, what are they trying not to say to her? Or what do they. I don't know. There's just such awkwardness and so many stories. Like, even in the body language of these photos, that is just horrific. I mean, you got Bill Clinton posing for a photo with Ghislaine Maxwell and Jeffrey Epstein. Like, Bill Clinton was obviously very involved. This just looks like photo line to me, though. This doesn't look like anything.

[Virginia Giuffre]

See, I think the blonde girl that's next to him seems like that might be the one that's also in the.

[Interviewer/Host]

In the other photo, Right?

[Virginia Giuffre]

Yeah. Because of the hairline and like.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah, yeah, Maybe it was all the same night. I mean, it's so gross. But yeah, like, the posture that these people have in these pictures is friendly. They're not threatened by him at all. They're not scared at all. They're very Happy.

[Virginia Giuffre]

They're having a good old time on.

[Interviewer/Host]

Episode, having a great time, joking around. I don't know what the hell this was. Like, let's selfie.

[Virginia Giuffre]

Let's do it.

[Tara Palmieri]

Let's get ready together.

[Interviewer/Host]

I've seen Bannon has one shirt. That's the only shirt he's ever worn in his frigging life. Like, I just. The Steve Fannon stuff. Can we talk about that? I'm not going to show the sex pictures because they're disgusting, but there's pictures of really just unusual sex toys and different things that they were using that are there. I mean, this one's a little bit funny.

[Virginia Giuffre]

Yeah, that one is weird. But.

[Interviewer/Host]

Woody Allen and Steve Bannon and, like, why is there a children's chalkboard behind them? Like, my niece has that. You know, it's like a little shorty chalkboard.

[Virginia Giuffre]

It's not a place where you want your kids to be hanging out. But I. I think that, you know, Steve Bannon is sitting on a lot of. A lot of tapes right now.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah. Couldn't he be sequestered or whatever for these? Sequestered? Can he be subpoenaed for these?

[Virginia Giuffre]

He can be, yeah. I mean, he might argue they're journalistic. That would be his. His reason to not hand them over.

[Interviewer/Host]

But he's.

[Virginia Giuffre]

Michael Wolfe is still sitting on tapes, probably waiting for the highest bidder.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah.

[Virginia Giuffre]

We don't know what he's holding on to.

[Interviewer/Host]

His relationship with Epstein, is that. Is that something that you think people really knew a lot about ahead of time, or is this something like, you had heard? Is Steve involved in crimes? Or was he, like, there trying to grift and make off of genuinely being, like, a political consultant for him, you.

[Virginia Giuffre]

Know, I just don't see, like. I just didn't see in, like, any of the documents, Steve, in his universe until, like, after he went to prison. So, like, I don't know how long it had been. I think, to be honest, I could see Steve, you know, being interested in Epstein and his money, and I could see Epstein seeing Steve be Steve as someone who's useful to get access to Trump, because I ultimately think from reading those emails that Epstein was sad that as someone who was such, like, a connector and liked having access to the most powerful people in the world that, like, he didn't have that with Trump and that he really underestimated Trump and didn't think that he could win the election. And then when he saw this guy who, you know, was his friend and they became enemies, and to see him in the White House and have him be the one person that he doesn't have this sort of, you know, control over. Yeah, control or relationship with. And then he's thinking to himself, like, well, I might have something on him. Right. And how do I get to him? Bannon is the easiest conduit. So I think it was kind of a mutual relationship in which they could sort of, you know, they. They both had reasons for their relationship.

[Interviewer/Host]

Gross. Guys find each other. I guess that's the lesson here. What do you think is not coming out? Like, you've been following us for years and years. You're, like, the one you knew. Virginia, you've done several podcasts about this whole situation. When we hear Epstein Drop comes out, to me, it always feels sort of new because I'm like, okay, well, what are they releasing now? Why is this coming out now? People go crazy. Are you disappointed with the stuff that gets released, or is there something you're waiting for more? That would be like, okay, we're finally getting closer.

[Virginia Giuffre]

Yeah. I mean, so far I've been a little disappointed just because, like, I know a lot of the names of the perpetrators and you haven't seen them come out.

[Interviewer/Host]

Right.

[Virginia Giuffre]

And that's what's been disappointing. So we'll see what happens on Friday. If any of the names of the men who have been accused will actually be revealed, I would like to see Virginia Giuffre's full docs revealed and unredacted. I think that'll be really illuminating to a lot of people.

[Interviewer/Host]

And can you say that because she's passed away now and Jeffrey Epstein's passed away now, doesn't that sort of, like, free up some of the legalities of withholding this information?

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[Virginia Giuffre]

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[Virginia Giuffre]

Mark is a Mochi member compensated for his story. A lot of men paid a lot of money to make sure their names were redacted from those files.

[Interviewer/Host]

I see. Yeah.

[Virginia Giuffre]

Yeah. And so I think I'm hoping that we'll see that, but it's unclear if that'll actually happen, so. It's crazy.

[Interviewer/Host]

Crazy.

[Virginia Giuffre]

It is crazy.

[Interviewer/Host]

Times.

[Virginia Giuffre]

I just. I don't know how they're going to do it by next Friday. It's Friday today, literally. They are ordered to do it by Friday. They. They filed a letter, the Department of Justice, to Judges Engelmeier and Berman, and they said, you know, we're sorry that some of the documents that we handed over to the House Oversight Committee revealed the names of victims, but they were already revealed another. In another way that. So it was. They didn't feel terrible about it, but they said, you know, we're still compiling a list of victims right now. New victims are coming forward. They created a victim hotline, like an email now, and new victims are coming forward. They don't have a master database. They don't even have a process for redactions, and they're a week away, and we've only seen such a small percentage of the 300 gigabytes of files that they have. So how are they all going to do this? I mean, they were working round the clock, you know, nearly a thousand agents 24 hours a day back in March to try to redact Trump's name from a bunch of files before a Freedom of Information request was. Was requested on Epstein. And, like, how are they going to go through a thousand victims and do the same thing? That was one man's name.

[Interviewer/Host]

Right.

[Virginia Giuffre]

They used a thousand agents round the clock. What are they doing right now? I think what might happen is either really sloppy and you see the names of these victims being revealed and then they face, like, harassment and their identities being revealed in a way they didn't want. I mean, they have the right legally to be Jane does, or you see overreactions. And it's basically what we've seen before, which is just like, what's the point? It's just like wallpaper, black lines. So that's something I fear. Or they ask for delay, which in some ways I'd almost rather them ask for the delay so that they do it right. Yeah. Because I just don't know how they do it.

[Interviewer/Host]

They're not putting money on this, though. Like you said, Trump is cheap. He already got his name off it. They're not putting money on this to do it.

[Virginia Giuffre]

But also, like, what? You know, they don't care about this. They don't care at all.

[Interviewer/Host]

It doesn't happen whatsoever.

[Virginia Giuffre]

And also, are we really supposed to trust the Department of Justice after Pam Bondi said there are no third party perps? Wait, we're reopening the case again? Now, Wasn't the Democratic one crazy?

[Interviewer/Host]

And she was like, yeah, there's no. There's no. There's no burps. It was the Epstein thing. It was no big deal. Thousand victims, but no Johns. Get the fuck out of here. Like, that is crazy, because they were saying there's, like, 95,000 photos that Robert Garcia has now in the House. Democrats have. And I'm like, okay, if they have 95,000 photos from the Epstein estate, then what is 300 gigabytes of data look like? Like, what boxes, what physical evidence do they have and where is it? Sitting in the doj. And, like, we're supposed to trust her? Cash Patel. Like, do you think at some point somebody just leaks this? Like, I know that there are former FBI agents, journalists, different folks who have this information. Will somebody, like, Drudge report this? And that's how it gets built, filled in. And that's not fair, either.

[Virginia Giuffre]

I mean, a lot of it's on Reddit already. Yeah, I thought about that myself. I'm like, I know a lot of this stuff, and I'm like, should I just put it out there? Because. But I'm also a journalist, so it's like, I have to be careful. You know what I mean? I have to, like, be. I can't just, like, put it out.

[Interviewer/Host]

There for what, Tara, under this administration, so you can be harassed and killed, and then. And then they never do anything with the info. It's like, you have to. I understand. You have to weigh that. Like, if I do, what comes of it.

[Virginia Giuffre]

Right. And also that I. It's not that I have, like, obscene files. I just have information that, like, you were her friend. It's hard to back up, because the person who gave me that information is now dead.

[Interviewer/Host]

Right.

[Virginia Giuffre]

You know what I mean? And so. And. And, yeah, that's. It's really difficult. And, like, some of the names, for example, that she didn't even include in her book. Virginia Fry. Like, I was kind of. You know, that was a disappointment to me, but I understand, like, the. That was on the publisher. They decided they didn't want to indemnify her for that.

[Interviewer/Host]

Right.

[Virginia Giuffre]

So this is the world we live in, where, like, really powerful people can keep their names concealed, the crimes they committed concealed, and not pay anything at all.

[Interviewer/Host]

So do you think this is going on to this day in some form? Certainly not at the Epstein level. But people who are freaks like that don't just stop being freaks like that. Like, if you're an addict or a weirdo, you're an addict and a weirdo forever. Like, do you Think there's, like, is there a danger in the fact that it could still be going on in some way because we're not getting accountability?

[Virginia Giuffre]

Yeah, sure. Yeah, I do think so. Yeah, of course. I mean, it's also just a ma. Like, a matter of people who believe they live above the law. So it's like they're breaking these kind of laws, like, the worst, most heinous crimes. Like, what else are they doing? And I just think it's demoralizing for society. Yeah, it's just not good precedent. Like, it's. And it's hard for the victims. Like, victims of any crimes. Why should they think that they. That they are going to be heard? I mean, I don't think it's a safe time to go report a sex crime against someone powerful. Hell, no. Like, you don't know what's going to happen to you. The Justice Department has shown that it does not care about justice. We're in a very weird time.

[Interviewer/Host]

What do you think about this crowd?

[Virginia Giuffre]

What was that?

[Interviewer/Host]

What do you think about Kavanaugh's camera name coming up in the emails? Brett Kavanaugh, they were talking about him being confirmed. It was a Steve Bannon Epstein conversation. He came up a couple times. I don't know. They didn't say Kavanaugh came to the island or anything like that. They were just interested in him as a sympathetic figure where he was being falsely accused by this woman. And it's sort of like, what's happening to me. Jeffrey Epstein was apparently saying in these.

[Virginia Giuffre]

Emails, like, yeah, Jeffrey.

[Interviewer/Host]

That he was watching the trial, and, like, watching Kavanaugh really made him feel like that's what's happening to me, too. And, like, this crazy is this, like.

[Virginia Giuffre]

It'S just for real. I mean, come on. People really, like, so basically what is happening is that they're about. This is. This is like, the victims. They're all victims. Epstein's a victim in his own eyes. Everybody's a victim in their own eyes, right?

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah.

[Virginia Giuffre]

It's absurd. It's obscene. I just don't know anymore. It's. It's a scary world we live in. But the problem is that the victim class, the quote, unquote, victim class, they're all in power.

[Interviewer/Host]

Right. I wonder if there's any crossover with, like, Hugh Hefner and the playboy bunny of it all, or was that, like, the west coast sex crimes ring situation because they were operating essentially at the same time. Like, are we ever going to find out that Hugh Hefner and Jeffrey Epstein hung out together? Or like, there was some sort of, like, crossover between these models and the pageants. Like, I just was a weird time man.

[Virginia Giuffre]

Well, here's my thought on Hugh Hefner. I mean, those girls were supposed to be adults, right? I mean, they were on tv, and that was, like, a place where, you know, celebrities would go. And it was an open. Like, it was not a secret sex dungeon. I mean, it was. So I would assume that he wouldn't take on girls that were underage. But maybe I'm wrong. I don't know that he had a pedophilia streak. So that's the other thing. But I could be wrong again. Rest in peace, Hugh. No, I'm kidding. But I do think that with. Not so much the pageants, but more so the. The modeling industry and the fact that Epstein had a modeling agency with Jean Luc Brunel, who killed himself MC squared in a. In a French prison mysteriously. And they did bring a lot of girls from Eastern Europe to his house. In fact. In fact, one of the young girls that was interviewed by the cops said that that Epstein would call one of the girls his sex slave. And they would come to this country being told they would become models. They would have their, you know, passports taken from them. They don't have any money. They don't have anything. They become essentially sex slaves. And so that is how they have control. And so I do think the modeling agencies, beauty pageants, I guess if they're like, if they're team beauty pageants, I just think the entire beauty industry is really, like, scammy. And it's designed to prey on insecurity, and it's designed to create false promises and hope and escalation and status through, you know, something that can be exploited. And so, I mean, I'm sure you could say that about a lot of industries, but it seems to prey on the young because, you know, our society values youngness as beauty. So, like, you're putting kids in this situation where they think, I'm gonna leave Slovenia.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah.

[Virginia Giuffre]

You know, or I'm gonna leave.

[Interviewer/Host]

Literally.

[Virginia Giuffre]

Yeah. I'm gonna leave, you know, small town, Missouri, become a supermodel, and that's going to be my ticket out of town. And it leaves people vulnerable. I think, you know, not to be. Not to harp on anything, but if I could encourage young girls, I'd say, go to school.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah.

[Virginia Giuffre]

No matter how pretty you are.

[Interviewer/Host]

This is the anti Erica Kirk channel right here. We are saying, go to school to find a husband. Go to school to find yourself and find your interest, to Actually, you know, actual way out is. Yeah.

[Virginia Giuffre]

If you want safety in life, like, true safety, security, you can only do that yourself. Right. There really is no one else. And so, like, what Erica Kirk is preaching, which, by the way, she didn't even live up to herself. I mean, she's covered in jewelry. She has a jewelry company, and now she's about to take over. Like, yeah. Now she has to be the CEO of a conservative company. Like, also, I love how they were like, oh, and like, girls, you should get married before you're 30. She met him in her 30s and he was in his 20s. So they were. They weren't even preaching. They weren't. They weren't even practicing what they preach, by the way, she was living in.

[Tara Palmieri]

New York City, the heathen capital of.

[Interviewer/Host]

The world, selling real estate, no less. Like, she was doing fine. Yeah. It's like when Pete Hegseth and JD Vance, they don't go to college, but they went to Yale and Princeton. Like, do as I say, not as I do.

[Virginia Giuffre]

Yeah. And their wives work in as, like, top executives at. In television. Ambitious women who are on tv. Like, what's his name? Sean Duffy. The real. The Real World. Yeah. Saying, like, women should stay at home. Like, his wife's on Fox.

[Interviewer/Host]

I mean, she's from Real World too. She was originally famous for hooking up with Puck. That was her first claim to think classy.

[Virginia Giuffre]

Love that. Love that these people are suddenly in power right now. They definitely weren't. They definitely weren't studying much.

[Interviewer/Host]

No. If only they would have dressed up at the airport and could do a proper pull up, we'd be in a perfect situation.

[Virginia Giuffre]

Just I'm so over it. And I just like, if anyone is imbibing this and listening to it, they are giving up their own agency. And I don't know, I don't feel bad about myself that I'm a single woman. I feel freaking good, actually.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah. Because you're more than that. Right? You have like, a whole career in education. That's why I say education is actually your only way out.

[Tara Palmieri]

I'm like, it is.

[Virginia Giuffre]

I can go do what I want tonight. I can do my. I can choose my life and live it the way I want. Like.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah.

[Virginia Giuffre]

I don't. I don't need to. Like, I mean, having children, it's fine. It's great. But, like, I also feel like if I don't, like, doesn't mean I'm any less of a person.

[Tara Palmieri]

Like, my legacy will not just be.

[Virginia Giuffre]

Whatever comes out of my legs.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah.

[Virginia Giuffre]

Goes in My legs, you know, it's good.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah. We could be more than did we have children or not? For sure. This is the thing I try to teach, like my nieces and nephews and I worry about because they want to be content creators, right? Like all the kids in my life see what I do and they're like, I want to be a YouTuber. I want to be a content creator. I'm like, oh, babes. Okay. But like, you gotta have like life experience to actually be good at the content thing. I think people think, oh, I could just make content. But it's like, if you didn't live in the real world, then you have nothing to be relatable for online. Which is why people like you is because they feel like you're a real person with lived experience. Experience. And I worry that what the pageant circuit promised young teenage girls like US in the 90s and early 2000s is what content creation is promising them now. Sign with us. Go to this hype house. Do these things we're hearing about. Like, have you heard of Bop House?

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[Tara Palmieri]

People love.

[Interviewer/Host]

This. Do you know what this is? Oh, Tara. So it's essentially like only fans, you know, like, you turn 18 and you join a Bop House and they are doing only fans stuff.

[Virginia Giuffre]

Why does everything get exploited? Jesus.

[Interviewer/Host]

You can't just be young and happy and people and they are making money. I mean, they're making crazy money. But like, there's one creator that I really like that speaks out against her experience having gone through it. And she's like, nothing bad happened to me. I don't have anything where I say, oh, I was assaulted or anything happened. She's like, but I will never be able to go the rest of my life and say that I didn't have sex for money. And that's something you need to know when you make these choices and you're young is like, do you want to spend the rest of your life being able to say, I never had sex for money or. Or do you want to say that you did? And there's no shame in Sex work. You just need to make that decision for yourself because people will make that decision for you forever. You will never be able to not have done that if that's not something you've really like taken the time to think about. Am I coming to this from an honest place? Is this something that I enjoy and I'm proud of and I'm going to work professionally in or is this something that people are promising me the whole world and I'm sort of making a short term decision about? And that's what I worry about with content creator stuff. Is this trafficking pipeline into like the new young Hollywood.

[Virginia Giuffre]

Yeah. I have to say, like, I don't, like I said, I don't have kids. Sure, I would have them, would love them maybe. Yes, I would love the kids if I had them. But like you like your own kids, other people's kids. But it might. I will say my parents were basically let me be raised by wolves. They didn't do much, but I will give them credit. They were never complimentary about anything. And I'm so happy that they told me I couldn't do shit in life and I had to prove them wrong.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah.

[Virginia Giuffre]

And then I'm also really happy that they never praised me for my parents or told me that I should use it in any way to get something in life. And I think young women need to be reminded that they are more than just their, like, you know, their looks. They are, have to be reminded that they are more than the person they marry. They have to be like, I just, and I know, and I'm sure this applies to men too, but I only have the female experience to reference. And I just see this, that the messaging you're getting there, you're getting right now from like the, the conservative leaders about what we should be. And it's just taking us back so far. And I don't know, I hope that the creators don't get like dragged into some sort of idea that this is all glitz and glamour. It's hard.

[Interviewer/Host]

There are scary people everywhere. There are scary people everywhere. And you know, Natalie came from like the child prodigy music world and we have talked a lot about if we have kids. I'm like, well, would you want them to be musicians and do what you did? And she's like, yes. And we would get a hotel in town because you cannot just send your kid to these prodigy schools where they're told, do whatever the teacher says. Look what happened at Interlochen, which was a place that Jeffrey Epstein was also involved in. She never Went to that school. She was a Tanglewood person. I guess there's like, different things, but. And she's like, nothing bad ever happened to me, but it's like you kind of knew it was happening around you, maybe to some other people. And it's just any of these things where you have young, talented, hungry people who are trying to get out of a bad situation with their family or sometimes a low income situation, and they want a bigger, better life for themselves, and they have a big dream, and some person with power and money wants a songbird. And so they're like, okay, I'll be your patron. And this is how that's going to shape ourselves.

[Virginia Giuffre]

They're encouraged to do that. They're literally encouraged to look for patrons.

[Interviewer/Host]

That's what she said.

[Virginia Giuffre]

Yeah. I mean, I don't know if I was going to be a musician or a singer or an actor. How would you survive? I mean, if you don't have family support, you can't. That's why it's all Nepo babies on tv.

[Interviewer/Host]

It is, yeah. And with these schools, it's like on certain scholarships, but then you're expected to perform at their private events because, oh, this is my protege, this is my mentee, this is my. Whatever. Dangerous out there, man. Yeah, Your plumbing degrees, be an engineer. Don't do anything.

[Virginia Giuffre]

Trust. And you're supposed to trust your children with the hands of other adults. I mean, it's. It's. Oh, it's scary. I mean, listen, I hope we. At some point in your life, you do let your kids go. They go to college or they go wherever they want to go at 18, and they. They live their lives. But I do think under the age of 18, it's just. It's hard. And when they put so much in, they. They're ambitious and of course. And I. One of my friends is an artist, and he said that Glenn would come to their. To their. What was it called?

[Interviewer/Host]

Like, their exhibitions.

[Virginia Giuffre]

Yeah, the school, I can't remember. It's a famous one, too. And. And she would try to smell out artists who seemed desperate and needed money, and then that would be what she, like, sort of preyed on them. And he was lucky to come from a wealthy family, so he didn't have that same sort of feeling. But, like, not everyone made, you know, have the lucky sperm, you know, a.

[Interviewer/Host]

Cello is $100,000 when you're at a professional level. Some of Natalie's bows are 40, $50,000. Like, it's crazy. And then there's the training and the Travel and the practice rooms. And it's a whole thing that, like, you have to work extremely hard. And she's lucky. She got, like, a good job and she could swing it. But, like, not everybody has that. And. And she's like, it's very easy because the schools teach you to find rich people to make them love you, because that's the only way that a lot of folks can get in one, that you can get cast sometimes or you can get into places like Juilliard. Like, surely it goes by your talent. But Jeffrey Epstein had sway on the board as well. Like, it's a very tricky thing.

[Virginia Giuffre]

Well, that's what he would say. He'd be like, I can get you into Victoria's Secret. His best friend, Lex Wessner. Lex Wessner ran Victoria's Secret. All made sense. Like, all these girls, everybody with ambition. He could offer them something. Except the price. It's not worth it.

[Interviewer/Host]

I know we're going to see more and more people come out. If you had any involvement in New York city in the 80s 90s, early 2000s, somebody that you know or somebody that you worked for was involved. We just saw. My cousin called me the other day because the restaurant group we work for, the guy's name showed up in it not as anything necessarily bad, but that he would, you know, make frequent reservations directly through this restaurant owner. And I was like, fuck. Like, that's. That's crazy. And then when we think about, like, anytime a restaurant opened in New York City, they would hire models to walk around and do cocktail trays to present that. It's just, like, the Epstein thing that blows my mind is not just the violence of the. Of the crimes that we know about, but is the structure of how America was really built for these powerful people to exploit these generations. And I think it carries over into why we have so much anger that, like, folks won't leave Congress on time and that millennials and younger have never been able to, like, break this. This leash that they've kept everyone on.

[Virginia Giuffre]

But, yeah, no, that they're forcing people into positions that they don't want to be in.

[Interviewer/Host]

What do you think next? Like, what are you. What are you working on right now? Like, what do you.

[Virginia Giuffre]

What do you. I'm. I'm like, I'm waiting on the files. I'm going to, like, wait to see what actually is revealed and what isn't, and, like, try to put together the things that I know that haven't been revealed and try to, like, really hold the government to account with this. So that, like, it's not just a bunch of blank line, you know, black lines so that people feel like they're getting answers, they're not left in the dark as they seem to always be with these dumps. So that, that's something I'm going to definitely work on. And, and I'll be here, like, analyzing and talking about the. The news as it comes out. I mean, I expect the next week is going to be really big. Whether they make the deadline or not, we're going to see things. And I assume there will be a lot of friction between Pam Bondi and FBI Director Cash Patel. That is going to be crazy because.

[Interviewer/Host]

Cash and Don Bongino made their whole careers on Epstein, on being like, release the files. Release the files. There's this cadre of like, Democrat child eaters out there.

[Virginia Giuffre]

I mean, there's going to be a lot of finger pointing as people are angry and. Yeah. Within the administration too. It's just a mess.

[Interviewer/Host]

So I appreciate that. You can always tell us what's not true, right? Probably not Pam Bondi in that picture that Hillary Clinton's probably not going to leave Bill over this drop. Although maybe she is. I don't know. That's the rumor on the street, too. I don't think she's stuck with them through all. All that Monica Lewinsky time. And I'm sure she knows, you know, whatever she knows about what was going on.

[Virginia Giuffre]

Oh, yeah. She knows who her husband is. Most women do. Right?

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah. So I'm like, thank you for coming and helping us at least be calm with the information so we don't run down rabbit holes that we don't need to and save our energy for, like, actual accountability.

[Virginia Giuffre]

Yeah. I'll get the foghorn when it's time.

[Interviewer/Host]

Okay, good. Make sure you're following Tara. She publishes the Red Letter weekly several times a week, always doing great updates. You'll see her on cnn, msnbc, Fox, everywhere. Talking about this was dear friend and confidant of Virginia Giuffre. And we just all hope that, you know, in her family gets the justice they deserve and that she couldn't get in life. So.

[Virginia Giuffre]

Yeah. And everyone, please follow V. Sure you already under the dusk News is amazing. And really, I'm so in awe of everything you built and how just clairvoyant you are and make great content. I just, I want to be more like.

[Interviewer/Host]

I want to be more like you.

[Virginia Giuffre]

I'm see, I'm like be more like the. How do I do it?

[Interviewer/Host]

We just, we grow together and we. Everybody has strengths that work out. I'm just a yapper and a good friend. And I know you're a real good friend.

[Virginia Giuffre]

And yeah, you're great. I'm really proud to know, you know, you.

[Interviewer/Host]

All right, thanks, Tara. We'll see you later. Good luck with the rest of all your interviews today.

[Virginia Giuffre]

Okay, bye.

[Tara Palmieri]

That was another episode of the Tara Palmieri Show. I hope you enjoyed it. I hope you felt like you learned something. It's going to be a really wild week. The Epstein Files are due to come out one week from today from Friday. We'll see what happens. But I will be reporting on it every step of the way. And as you know, I reported two podcasts on Jeffrey Epstein and I got to know Virginia Giuffre really well through it. Broken Jeffrey Epstein Empower the Maxwells. They're great briefers. If you want to know more about this case, you can also just follow all of my exclusive reporting by going to tarapalmieri.com and and you can subscribe for my newsletter, the Red Letter. You can see all of my reporting, all of my exclusives as I focus in on the Jeffrey Epstein story, which is only going to get bigger in the next week. So please come back here and tell all of your friends about it. I want to thank my producer, Eric Abinace. I want to thank Abby Baker, does my social media and research. I want to thank Dan Rosen, my manager, and Adam Stewart on the graphics. See you again soon.