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The Tara Palmeri Show
Royal Bombshell: Sarah Ferguson’s Alleged Relationship With Diddy Began Through Ghislaine Maxwell
00:58:41
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- [00:00]
Andrew Lowney
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- [00:15]
Tara Palmieri
Welcome back to the Tara Palmieri Show. Today we have esteemed royal biographer and friend of the show, Andrew Lowney. I think he's back. You're back for your third or fourth time and it's always lovely coming here. Yeah, we're always happy to have you. So Andrew's book entitled the Rise and Fall of the House of York is an investigative joint biography of Prince Andrew and of his ex wife Sarah Ferguson. And tomorrow you can buy an updated paperback edition containing I would call it a sensational 37 new pages of material exploring their. They're ongoing in ties, their extravagant lifestyle and of course their links to Jeffrey Epstein. But here's my question, Andrew. Can you actually buy this book in paperback in the United States?
- [01:10]
Andrew Lowney
Yes. I mean, we have problems with the hardback because somebody chooses to cancel the contract just before publication. But this has now been distributed by my UK publisher, HarperCollins and you should be able to buy it in Walmart, it should be in bookshops and it should certainly should be available online with Amazon and others.
- [01:30]
Tara Palmieri
Can you explain to our readers some of the backstory about why you had difficulty even publishing this book and why so many people had to just read it online, they couldn't get access to it for months?
- [01:44]
Andrew Lowney
Well, it's a good question. I mean, I'm taking some, yeah, I'm taking some just as court to find out why they canceled in such caviar way and kind of destroyed my US publication. So we'll know then. But I did try and self publish the book, but it was a corrupted file that I was given to upload and clearly that didn't work very well. So it was difficult. I think there were some third party sellers who were selling copies, but otherwise it was very difficult to get a hold of the book. I mean, there was an audio version by Blackstone and I'm just hoping that this new edition will give readers in the States and in Canada a chance to read the book, which they were denied at the hardback stage.
- [02:26]
Tara Palmieri
Why? Why were they denied? What did the publisher tell you? Why wouldn't they, why wouldn't they publish it?
- [02:31]
Andrew Lowney
Well, they weren't very clear about that. They claimed that it was unreadable. But the version that was published and the version I delivered to them was about 1% difference. I mean that was mostly legal changes. They could easily have offset off the HarperComms edition. There were no problems anywhere else in the world. I've never, in the course of 40 years of writing books, ever had anything turned turned down. So I think there was some other agenda going on, which hopefully we'll discover when the case comes up in the autumn.
- [03:04]
Tara Palmieri
Does this have anything to do with Melania Trump and your reporting on her?
- [03:08]
Andrew Lowney
No, it doesn't. I mean, the reference to Melania Trump was only discovered, or the President only complained about it after the book was published, and that was never an issue before that, so. And of course, we've now found with the Epstein releases that what I put in about Melania was proved to be true. But I think the publishers didn't really want him to get a fight, a legal fight, which would be expensive and time consuming, so we took it out. But it doesn't mean it wasn't true.
- [03:39]
Tara Palmieri
What was the reporting?
- [03:42]
Andrew Lowney
Well, it was about how Melania met Trump, which is a story that I think is intrigued people. I mean, it's been reported. I mean, I think she also threatened to sue Michael Wolf and Michael Wolf countersued. But I had to follow the. The. What the publishers wanted to do. Ironically, they were not. They were. Harper Collins only had the British rights, but they felt that because the book might get into the States in various ways that it was more prudent to. To take out that. That line and that. That's fine. I mean, they would. They. They're responsible for my legal position, so, I mean, I have to follow what they say.
- [04:23]
Tara Palmieri
Yeah. So specifically, the reporting was. And you can correct me if I'm wrong, you had reported that Melania Trump was in a relationship with Jeffrey Epstein, or at least engaged with him sexually, and then he introduced him to Donald Trump after that.
- [04:38]
Andrew Lowney
Yeah, that's my, that's my understanding from my source. I mean, I didn't say it was true. I just said that's what Epstein boasted. And of course, you can't always believe everything Epstein said, but I believe others have said that. I think Hunter Biden has also been. Was also threatened with being sued. So it's not a disclosure. I think the sources were all different. It's not something that was a huge secret.
- [05:04]
Tara Palmieri
But still intriguing. So now you know why Andrew Lowney's book, it took a while for us to get it in America, but in some ways I think we worth the wait because the Reckoning, this latest chapter, is really quite revelatory and it is backed by the Epstein files that have been released. And so many of them have come out since August. That is when we saw Prince Andrew, essentially. Well, I'm going to just call him Andrew. He shouldn't be called Prince Andrew anymore. But Andrew lose his title. And so can you kind of explain to me when the reckoning began and what triggered it?
- [05:45]
Andrew Lowney
Yeah, well, I think the real reckoning was, was the. The release of the Epstein files at the end of last year. And I think just seeing in very clear detail, I mean, him, all this detail, pictures of him leering over young girls sharing confidential information, all those things just, you know, was the final nail in the coffin. And it was gratifying to see that a lot of those backed up what my own sources had told me. But, I mean, in some ways it's been a snowball effect. I mean, the press had got more emboldened. There were leaked emails in the autumn about how long Andrew and Sarah had known Epstein, revealing that they'd been telling lies. I think Virginia Giffrey's book was very important. It kind of humanized the whole story. You know, we suddenly saw the impact on someone and, you know, from a very respectable ghostwriter, a very moving, profound book. So, you know, I. I think it was just a drip, drip feed that would force the British royal family to act. And then, you know, more and more disclosures came out as more and more of these releases emerged. And, you know, I hope there will be more releases. I mean, they said they won't, but also, as we begin to study, you know, these millions of pages, I think we're discovering more and more, we're discovering that was a bigger network than was realized. Lots and lots more people were targeted. And it's moving, I think, more from a story about sexual trafficking and financial manipulation to one about national security. There's new material in the book, based on an FBI report, date dated 15th of January this year, about Andrew being basically targeted by Russian criminal gangs and run by the Russian intelligence services, and that he kind of willingly cooperated with them in their activities because they provided what he wanted, which was money and women.
- [07:30]
Tara Palmieri
Right. And also these FBI files that you've looked through also suggest that Epstein was involved in those Russian ties and that he was both working for Russia and Israel. Correct?
- [07:42]
Andrew Lowney
Yes. I think, you know, there's always been big suspicions about how he made his money. Now claims, including from former British intelligence agents, that, you know, he was a Russian asset, but clearly had very close connections with Israeli intelligence as well. And that, you know, isn't surprising. Often these intelligence agencies will will cooperate or people will be sort of operating as freelancers to the highest bidder or sharing the information among several agencies. So that not surprising, but, you know, it is worrying. I mean, the fact that there's so little accountability around members of the British Royal family means that they can easily be targeted by foreign powers. And this is clearly what's happened with, with Andrew. I mean, both Chinese and Russian agents were very much in his entourage.
- [08:29]
Tara Palmieri
Right. So Congresswoman Nancy Mace suggested that Andrew should be prosecuted on US soil for the sex crimes. What's stopping that from happening? Are there diplomatic back channels right now, or is it just there's no political will behind it because President Trump was so close to both Andrew and Jeffrey Epstein?
- [08:51]
Andrew Lowney
Yes, well, I think that's a suspicion that. That some deal has been done and Trump is not going to deliver up Andrew. I mean, we've got situation at the moment where the DOJ is not giving the Metropolitan Police the unredacted emails and files that would be helpful in their investigations into Andrew. In some ways, this is just tit for tat because the British weren't very cooperative when the Americans wanted, under the Mutual Legal Assistance Treaty, to have access to materials. So some childish games are being played and clearly some deals have been going on behind the scenes. But this is an outrage for the victims that these people are not being held to account. I think someone has actually said to me that Andrew could be prosecuted in the States because a lot of these crimes took place in the States. And even though he's a British citizen, that doesn't save him from being prosecuted. I think we've got a whole series of charges could be laid at him. I mean, everything from malfeasance and public office, which is basically behaving badly in a public office, through to sex trafficking. I think the most likely is something to do with fraud or with breaking the Official Secrets Act. But we've also got more and more information coming to light of a woman who were trafficked to him. There's a case that's just emerged today in Britain in Surrey, historic abuse case, where people have made claims against Andrew for sexual abuse and those are now being investigated by Surrey police. So there looks like a sort of effort by the law enforcement here to, to at least to be seen to be doing something. But the danger is this is all going to take years. By the time any charges are perhaps even leveled, that will be in a new reign and it will be a completely different scenario.
- [10:43]
Tara Palmieri
Right. Do you, Sarah Burr asks, is Trump doing this to appease Charles. King Charles, that is his brother.
- [10:50]
Andrew Lowney
Well, I think there is, there is a suspicion that there were some chats behind the scenes also to do with not revealing Harry's visa and whether he'd taken drugs, claimed to have taken drugs or not. So I think, you know, there were, there were, there were, there were various things going on during that official tour the other day that perhaps hadn't been reported. But, yeah, Trump doesn't want this story to come out. I think he has a great deal of admiration for the Royal Family. He was, as you say, friendly with Andrew, used to play golf together. They used to swap notes about Mass Earth that they liked. So I think he's probably protecting Andrew. And, you know, this is an outrage because, you know, the victims want to see justice done and even those who are not victims feel that the law has to be served.
- [11:35]
Tara Palmieri
So in this episode, we, we. I mean, what I found to be quite interesting on top of the many revelations, is this convergence of two of the biggest, you know, sex crime scandals in our country in a. For a very long time. The, the, the story of, of Sean Combs or Diddy. He's a disgraced rapper who in 2025, just last year, was found guilty on two counts of transportation for prostitutions and he's been sentenced to 50 months in prison. And Glenn Maxwell and Jeffrey Epstein, we. Your. Your reporting is that Sarah Ferguson met Sean Combs through Galen Maxwell at one of her events and it started a sort of, you call it secret friends with benefits relationship beginning in 2004 and lasted for years. Can you tell us a little bit more about that?
- [12:34]
Andrew Lowney
Yes, I mean, it came after, you know, after the hardback came out, came from, from. Staff from, from Sarah Ferguson. And then I was able to kind of follow it up with people in P. Diddy's entourage. In fact, it didn't begin in 2002. I've discovered that Sarah was attending P. Diddy's party in 1998. So it actually goes back an earlier four years. They didn't meet at Ghislaine's. I got that wrong. But, you know, there are lots of pictures of them together. I mean, she took Eugenie, age 16, to one of the yacht parties. Beatrice went to the launch of the fragrance Unforgivable, which was supposedly inspired by Sarah Ferguson. It kind of didn't surprise me in the end because he was kind of drawn to British royalty. He liked getting close to them. She was drawn to that celebrity world. She has a long history of being interested in some bad boys like P. Diddy she actually had rappers used to perform at her children's birthday parties. She gets these fiction fixations. She kind of followed Tiger woods across America. She often denies these relationships and they're proved to actually be true. So when it came to it, having thought, this is a bit surprising and, you know, there she was. She was one of the first people to greet Epstein when he came out of prison, if not the first. She took her young daughters off to meet Peter Nygaard, another sex offender who's in prison. And I think why I felt it's important to tell the story is here's someone who presents herself as a good mother and as someone who is protecting people who've been trafficked, women who've been trafficked and has made a reputation with, with charity, supposedly to protect them. And here she is consorting with some of the best known sex predators in the world. And it's. It's not a good look, I have to say. And so I think there, you know, there is a case, I think, for, for talking about this. I understand that there will be more revelations this weekend, not from me, but from other people who are looking at the story and know about it. So stay tuned. I mean, this story, I think, is going to get bigger and bigger. And I think also he had connections with Epstein, so it's not just a sexual relationship. There seems to be a financial one as well.
- [14:48]
Tara Palmieri
Yeah, right. I've always found Sarah Ferguson to be particularly icky, especially when those leaked tapes came out of her on the couch and just all like, I always saw her as some sort of grifter, but she, you know, obviously has attached her name to philanthropy to try to launder herself. Right. And we know that despite her denials and her claims that she cut off communication with Jeffrey Epstein after he was convicted of procuring a child for prostitution, that she emailed him in 2009 and called him my dear, spectacular and special friend, the brother I've always wished for. But in another email on September 9, September 17 that year, she wrote about a woman saying, you can marry her, too. She is single and has a great body. Okay, well, marry me and then we will employ her. I mean, to me, first of all, she wants to marry Jeffrey Epstein. She knows what he's about. But she almost seems like a Glenn Maxwell figure in the sense that she would have been happy to marry him and then employ her. What does that mean? Is that trafficking? Is that abuse? Is this prostitution?
- [16:06]
Andrew Lowney
Sarah Ferguson did? Well, Sarah Ferguson certainly slept with a lot of her financial backers in Fact, I'm having dinner tonight with the wife of one of the financial backers who told me about Sarah's affair with him. And in fact, One of the PAs talks about Sarah sleeping with financial backers. But yeah, it is odd. I mean, there she is when she's encouraging her goddaughter to go and stay in Epstein's block of flats on her own. Sarah did have this kind of role, a bit like Ghislaine, of kind of bringing women into the, into the net for whether it was Andrew or others. You know, she, as she said, is a people pleaser. But it is, it is very bizarre behavior, particularly given, as you say, she's tried to launder her reputation through charities. I mean, she uses charities also to bolster her social ambitions and sometimes to make money on the side. And there's a little bit about that in the book, but, you know, it is highlighting the hypocrisy and cynicism with which she operated. And she got away with this.
- [17:01]
Tara Palmieri
I mean, at one point. Right. At one point you write that she asked to work as Epstein's personal assistant. And if you know anything about the Epstein story, his personal assistants were essentially recruiters. I mean, Ghislaine Maxwell described herself as his personal assistant. You knew what you had to do if you worked for Jeffrey Epstein.
- [17:24]
Andrew Lowney
Yeah, I think, you know, Sarah Ferguson doesn't have any moral boundaries. I think she, she, you know, she'll do whatever it takes to, to make a quick buck and to ingratiate herself with people that she feels are important and could be useful. And this is one of the points again, her personal assistant made that, you know, every even social engagement was actually focused on how they could make it into some sort of business arrangement where she gets some money. And, you know, that the assistant found this very embarrassing. So, you know, everything is, is, is transactional with, with Sarah Ferguson and, and that's why it's, you know, and, and I think people are kind of finally realizing it. But it is an extraordinary way to, to, to behave given, given how she presents herself in public as, as a great humanitarian.
- [18:11]
Tara Palmieri
Sarah Ferguson wrote children's books, she's friends with Jeffrey Epstein. Why does she gravitate towards these kinds of men?
- [18:23]
Andrew Lowney
Well, I think her father was a bit like that. I mean, her father was a real sort of philanderer. I mean, even had an affair with, with his wife's bridesmaid and I understand was caught in, in one of the big London hotels shortly before Sarah Ferguson's wedding was with two women having a. So Called business meeting, which kind of upset, you know, almost called off the wedding. And he was of course caught at one point, famously in a massage parlor in London, the Wigmore Club. So he was also sleeping with a woman called Leslie Player at the same time she was sleeping with Sarah's boyfriend while she was married, a man called Steve Wyatt. So it's a world which is slightly different from most people's and I think she just feels she's relaxed about sort of sexual morality and doesn't, doesn't, you know, where it doesn't worry her too much. But yeah, you know, the problem was she did had bad influences. Her mother ran away when she was 13 to marry an Argentinian polo player and moved to Argentina. So she has very low self esteem and I think this is part of the problem. She, she needs some, she's always trying to curry favor in some way and that's why she's always buying presents to give people. I mean, she had one person just employed to give presents, sort out presents for people and take photographs, send out photographs. She had someone else who dealt just with the tablets. She took diet pills and various supplements. There were two people just to pick up dog poo. She had these extraordinary Marie Antoinette sort of views of life because she felt she could afford this lifestyle she was going to enjoy, but she couldn't afford it.
- [20:05]
Tara Palmieri
Yeah, I mean this one sentence that she wrote to Jeffrey Epstein is really telling I am at your service. Just marry me. That is a woman with very low self esteem, I would say.
- [20:20]
Andrew Lowney
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Well, I don't think she particularly liked him and I don't think he particularly liked her. They were just both of them using each other. He saw her as a way into Andrew and the Royal Family and she saw him as just basically a cash cow.
- [20:35]
Tara Palmieri
Yeah, I mean, she needed his help. There was an email that you, you described in which she's asking for him to upgrade a ticket a, a flight that he bought for her and the two princesses, her daughters, and they were sitting economy and she was sitting business and it was a $14,000 ticket and she asked to upgrade it to first and wanted her daughters to sit in business. Epstein appears to have ignored it. But then the cake anecdote that you have, I mean, can you explain this to the audience? I found it to be particularly revealing of her character.
- [21:13]
Andrew Lowney
Yeah, it is extraordinary. It's like actually several stories we had in the hardback. So with the, with the, the trip to the States that was to meet Epstein and she even gave her frequent flyer card. She was going to try and collect points on it, paid for by Epstein. But the cake came from a filmmaker called Dominic Morgan. I think he was told it by. By one of the chefs. And she had away and a new one was made the next day. And there are lots of stories like that of her, you know, having three meals prepared and not eating any of them because she couldn't. Couldn't decide which one she wanted and then eat some, Some. Some what we call crisps here, I think you call chips. Stories of having meals prepared for her when at her ski chalet in Verbier and then deciding at the last minute to go out. So there's a very strange relationship with food that she has. I mean, she kind of wants it, but doesn't want it sometimes. But, you know, again, extravagance. Opening very expensive bottles of wine and not drinking any of them, not putting the cork back in. And I think people are really shocked by that. I mean, I think what was interesting is what people get shocked about. And it was. For example, there's a story with Andrew kicking a dog in the head. And that seems to been particularly upsetting. But actually what I found revealing about it was that the person who reprimanded Andrew for his behavior was not his parents who were present, but actually a stranger who was at the shooting weekend. So. And the food, the waste of food, I think is something for someone, again, who works with charities, who's dealing with deprived, who actually did several television programs about how people could eat better and eat more cheaply to then on the side behave like this. Again, points up to this sort of double standards.
- [23:06]
Tara Palmieri
Yep. She would make cake each day and then toss it out and then make a new one. I mean, that. That is excess in a very sharp anecdote. And also kicking a dog, as you know, in America, Kristi Noem shooting a dog, I mean, it's ruined her political career. We have very. We have soft spots for animals, especially dogs. They're our companions. And to have little, you know, affection or mercy for them is really revealing of one's character.
- [23:38]
Andrew Lowney
Yes, absolutely. Yeah. And I think, you know, the point that was made was Philip did come up at the end that evening and say to the man, well done for scolding of Andrew. He needs. He needs to be told off sometimes. But why wasn't Philip doing this? You know, as his father? I mean, he was known as quite a strict disciplinarian. And yet this is another example of how Andrew was basically allowed to behave exactly as he wanted. And no one you know, no one held him to account then and I think that's why he feels he's not going to be held to account now.
- [24:08]
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- [24:37]
Tara Palmieri
It's interesting because to me you really see a person's character on a plane, right? I mean you're in this confined space, you're around a lot of other people, there's a bit of anxiety because you're flying. There's the, they're going through the whole process. I'm talking about a commercial flight, right? Not a, a private jet, which I'm sure he preferred to fly. But you tell the story of how he spoke to a stewardess on a first class British airways flight in 2010. Another very revealing anecdote. Can you tell the listeners about that?
- [25:18]
Andrew Lowney
Yeah, I mean I think both Sarah and Andrew have kind of arrested development. They behave like children and there's several stories about flying. I mean it's of course the famous episode where Sarah Ferguson kind of had a breakdown on a flight when she was caught, I think one of her affairs and put paperbacks on her head and threw things at the old passengers. But in this case Andrew wanted a cool drink, a glass of water and he likes his water lukewarm rather than cold. And so when the stewardess brought him the bottle of water he said actually it's too cold but I'll warm it up. And he just unzipped his trousers and stuffed it them and down the front of his trousers and I mean sort of thing a sort of 8 year old might do but not, not someone who's that sort of age. But I think, you know, a lot of the stories were about his sort of predatory sexual behavior very appropriately. And he would be introduced to air stewardess on getting onto the plane. He'd sort of spin around, come to her almost as if they, you know, he was going to sort of have anal sex with her and practice his golf swing or he would say to them as a chat up line, you know, what's it like to feel the royal so and so against your thigh? He was, he would make inappropriate comments to 18 year old girls who wouldn't quite know how to respond. Pitch their bottoms, play footsie with them under the table. All sorts of, you know, really strange things. Making passes at women, you know, Pilates teachers, for example. With his wife literally in the room, he has no filter. I mean, it's extraordinary behavior and it's just amazing that no one really has called this out until now.
- [26:58]
Tara Palmieri
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- [28:28]
Andrew Lowney
Nope, I'm making dinner tonight.
- [28:29]
Tara Palmieri
You don't have time. Josh has practice.
- [28:31]
Andrew Lowney
Oh, that's right.
- [28:32]
Tara Palmieri
I'll just get a salad and fries.
- [28:34]
Andrew Lowney
No, just the salad.
- [28:36]
Tara Palmieri
But salad cancels fries.
- [28:37]
Andrew Lowney
Salad only.
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Tara Palmieri
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- [28:48]
Andrew Lowney
Salad. Sorry.
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Tara Palmieri
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Tara Palmieri
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- [28:54]
Andrew Lowney
So I was gonna say actually one of the extraordinary things is there are women who you know will very loyal to him. There's a woman, I quote in the book called Bridget Matthew who's about 10 years older than him and she has a rather sweet story of making fudge together and him taking it back to members of the Royal family and him coming to visit her brother when he was in hospital. So, you know, there are some very positive things to say about him. This is what's so odd. This is again this, this sort of schizophrenic nature to him and you know, some intelligent woman that he was almost engaged to a woman called Amanda Staveley, who's a very well known businesswoman here. And so it wasn't just very to very temporary things. I mean, the relationship with Sarah Ferguson is interesting. They were supposed to be the happiest divorced couple ever, but actually that was all a myth. She kind of hung in there limpet light because that gave her access to the Royal Family. It brought the Queen on side. It meant that when she did a business activity she could claim to be an insider. But it's interesting, as soon as he lost his title, as soon as he was out of Royal Lodge, she was nowhere to be seen. And so there's, there's just so many elements to this story which are actually mythical really, but it's taken some time for, for that myth to be demolished.
- [30:09]
Tara Palmieri
I want to bring the Queen back into this. We've talked a lot about how she covered for Andrew, how she was getting, you know, warnings from the MI6, the British intelligence about what Andrew was up to. And yet here he was going to Saudi Arabia and doing arms deals on behalf of the Queen. Can you tell us a little bit more about the kind of work he did as a trade envoy, how he abused his role and how he abused that role?
- [30:42]
Andrew Lowney
Yeah, well, it's very clear from the Epstein releases and some of the stuff I found that I mean literally he would be given commercially sensitive or diplomatically sensitive information. He would share them almost immediately with some of his business associates, people who are basically bankrolling Sarah Ferguson. And Lord Mandelson, the former British Ambassador in the States was also doing this. I mean, he also has been arrested and I suspect will be charged. And I think they'll make a distinction between the fact that he was a paid official and Andrew wasn't. But extraordinary things, you know, given that he served in services, he was Colonel in chief of various regiments. He was extraordinary. Exploiting business opportunities in Afghanistan at a time when a lot of British blood had been shed with, with soldiers, you know, serving There. And yeah, I mean again, there are a lot of. That's why it's so important to know who was on these trips and what they were doing because there's several of these trips, they're people who actually senior army officers who are passed off as working for charities or private secretaries and their identity is disguised. And in fact when I wrote to these people to say what were you doing these trips? They wouldn't reply. So there was a lot of stuff going on on these taxpayer funded trips which were clearly not necessarily about promoting British trade. They were often about promoting the business certificates as friends. But there seems to be also another element with, with, with arms sales. And he was very rude about the Arabs. I mean, you know, he said they buy lots of arms from us, but you know, they're very boring and they give us these presents we don't like. And he had an Arab da boat which he actually presented to a woman at an RAF station and said let's do target practice on it or drop out of a plane. You know, extraordinary sort of childish behavior to, with people that he had never met before.
- [32:30]
Tara Palmieri
Yeah, it is interesting. You were talking about how in Switzerland he was around a bunch of Swiss business leaders and he talked about the life of PI and how PI could be pronounced P and then went on about urine. He seems like a child. Like he's like you said, arrested development. But I want to go into this document about the Russian intelligence services and you know, it talked about, you know, figures like Jeffrey Epstein, Epstein as access to political and business leaders. And can you tell me more about this document about the Russian intelligence services and how Epstein and Prince Andrew were connected?
- [33:12]
Andrew Lowney
Yeah, it's a document I was given by an American intelligence official. It's dated 15th of January. It's called Andrew Mountbatten Windsor Political Corruption. It's categorized as both RIs, Russian intelligence services and Chinese Intelligence Services. And it kind of goes into the fact that Russian criminal gangs have been basically infiltrated by Russian intelligence. They're operating together, they're taking advantage of, for example, green energy subsidies and they're out to basically, you know, this is part of the hybrid warfare that's going on. And they're using sort of useful idiots like Andrew to get, lend credibility to projects to give access to particularly important people. They say that he's driven not because he's been blackmailed but because he's been given the things that he likes, which is woman contacts, money. A lot of it's driven by a hatred for his brother Charles. So really, really Revealing sort of document. And certainly, you know, there are a lot of Chinese and Russian spies hanging around Andrew and you can see why. Very easy to get access. There's no proper scrutiny of him. And if you want to meet important people then a British royal is a good way of doing it. Particularly one who's looking for money. And we, we see various figures as an interesting figure called Johnny Hahn, who's very close to, to both North Korean and Chinese governments, who's been paying large sums of money to Sarah Ferguson each year as a brand ambassador for one of his businesses. And he gave quite a lot of money to one of her businesses, raised money from Chinese investors and used her as a way of raising the money and then gave money to her and spent quite all the money himself on things like meetings with Victoria Secrets models and the sort of things that you know, most people would run a mile from and if there was proper scrutiny of the royals would not be allowed to happen. So I think there is to say there's an intelligence aspect to this. There's a quite a well known political commentator here who's also written about this clearly from tipped off by his own government sources that this is the way the story is going. And it's clear that Andrew was blackmailed or certainly this compromat on him from Honeytrap's or from all over the world. I mean Libya, China, Middle East, Central Asia, they've all got compromising material about Andrew in these honey traps. He, Andrew would, would request girls be provided for him when he made these trips. There's one episode in Prague where someone paid €10,000 I think for former Miss Slovakia to sleep with him, keep him happy. There's a story in Hong Kong of someone being deputed to take care of him and being shocked by Andrew bringing in prostitutes, watching porn, discussing Japanese rope bondage. I mean these are on official trips. I mean in the hardback I had a story of him in Thailand booking in 40 prostitutes on an official trip. And certainly one of my contacts was talking about how, you know, when the expenses came in from one of these trips, Andrew was claiming the massages with some of these escorts on, on taxpayers, the taxpayers tab. And he was told, yes, let it through. You know, we'll disguise this under general accounting. Extraordinary. You know, he just felt he could do anything he wanted. No one would, would, would challenge him.
- [36:31]
Tara Palmieri
It's incredible. So you report that US intelligence was concerned that Jeffrey Epstein was running the world's largest honey trap for Israel and Russia. Which brings me back to Robert Maxwell Someone that I covered very closely for the series that, the Sony podcast series that I did in 2021 called Power the Maxwells. And it's widely believed that Maxwell was a double agent working for the two countries helping Soviet Jews move to Israel. How are those two people connected at Maxwell and Epstein? And when did they become connected? And can you explain how Prince Andrew fits into all of this?
- [37:20]
Andrew Lowney
Well, I mean, it's still a mystery and I suspect you know more about it than I do. I mean, one of my new sources talks about kind of hanging out with Ghislaine Epstein and Andrew in the mid-1980s, which would suggest that relationship goes much, goes back a decade. I mean, the story, the different versions, you know, that Ghislaine met Andrew when she was at Oxford in the mid-80s. There are other stories saying that Sarah Ferguson introduced Andrew when Sarah Ferguson and Ghislaine were kind of sort of social butterflies in New York in the 90s. I, I think it does make sense in some ways this link with Maxwell. Presumably it could have been introduced through, through, through an intelligent source. We know that there were, you know, when Epstein was teaching at Dalton School, he had connections clearly with the Barr family, who had backgrounds in intelligence there, but, you know, with American intelligence, but, you know, perhaps through some other contacts he got into. He was brought together with Maxwell who as you say, was working for, for the British, for the Russians and for Israeli intelligence. And that's how the money, you know, that's how he made some money so quickly. He was kind of brought in. I mean, there's stories from one intelligence person I talked to about Ghislaine, I think being introduced to Epstein way back in the 80s at an art gallery in, in New York. So I mean, there's just so many rumors running around, very difficult to pin down. And you know, there are one or two commentators, Ari Benshi is it, who, who's talked about, know, working for, for Maxwell and, and, and, and stories about Epstein. So. But it sounds like, you know, Epstein was, was actually not the, the mastermind of all this, but was just another player in a kind of wider conspiracy which goes back, you know, a lot earlier than people think. It involves intelligence services and, and it was the, the, the compromat that was, was all about political subversion as well as financial manipulation. And it was just one of the, just the device to compromise people to get them to do what they, whatever the various organizations wanted them to do.
- [39:36]
Tara Palmieri
Yeah, for some context about Robert Maxwell, he was a media baron at the time, who was a Rival to Rupert Murdoch. I mean, he owned the New York Daily News, the Mirror, MTV Europe, Peregrine Press, a number of, of, of media properties. And he also was a member of Parliament at one time. He was, you know, a high flying media mogul. And his daughter, Glenn Maxwell, if he, if he survived and well, not survive, we don't, that's another thing. He died mysteriously off the side of his yacht, the Lady Galen, when he was suddenly in a position where he had robbed the, the pensioners from the Mirror. And he was obviously probably more easily compromised because he was in that financial position. And so he mysteriously dies, his body washed ashore. They bury him in the Mount of Olives in, in Israel, which is reserved for princes and kings and people of the high state. And you know, Glenn said in her testimony to Todd Blanche, if you can believe him or not, that Hank Greenberg called and asked Robert Maxwell what he thought of Jeffrey Epstein when he was thinking of hiring him. I believe it was Hank that did that. And so, you know, there are a lot of questions about how far back their relationship goes. Did you know, Robert bring Epstein in earlier on than we think? Did he introduce Glenn to Jeffrey? And it's really hard to get down to the bottom of it, but they certainly seem like very similar characters to say the least.
- [41:18]
Andrew Lowney
Yeah, absolutely. So, and you know, Ghislaine, because we'd never, and no one's ever really been able to explain Ghislaine meeting Epstein. And if it came, you know, it's all supposed to have happened after her father's death when she came to New York, but it sounds like it all happened beforehand. So, you know, I think that's what's so fascinating. This story has a long way still to run. I think we've only really got the tip of the iceberg in terms of what really happened. Happened.
- [41:44]
Tara Palmieri
Right. Did her father launder his money through Jeffrey Epstein and is that how she had this multi million dollar townhouse after he died?
- [41:52]
Andrew Lowney
Yes. Well, I think, you know, that's certainly one of the suspicions. And of course, you know, all, all, you know, that again comes back to connections with, with Trump and some of the work that people like Craig Unger has done. So it's, it's, you know, I think as we begin to try and put the pieces together, we're beginning to get a sense of, of what happened.
- [42:12]
Tara Palmieri
Right. I mean, I find it fascinating too that Trump and Robert Maxwell were on his yacht, the Lady Galen in New York, and Glenn is trying to sell Trump their corporate gifts. This company, I mean, there's so many crossover. There's so much crossover between these two worlds and. Yeah. Well, I want to bring us to today, the present day. We know that Prince Andrew put out a statement saying he thinks it's best for the family if he steps aside from royal life, does not mention the victims. Can you tell me a little bit about the reaction to that in the family, how Charles has handled it, what this could do to his throne and his brain?
- [42:55]
Andrew Lowney
Well, I think there was a great deal of outrage after Andrew was allowed to make that statement at the beginning of October. I mean, he, as you say, he didn't express any of any remorse or apology, though he'd been, you know, told that he should. He was allowed to say that he was stepping down voluntarily. He denied all the allegations. And I think that forced the King to really do something. And the King should always have made the statement. The statement he made at the end of October, he should have made at the beginning of October. And, you know, he, he earned a lot of respect when he was much more ruthless because I think, you know, he's just kind of dithered on this. The royals have been too slow to address this and get ahead of the story. So we, we saw some things change. I think the publication of Virginia Giffre's book also changed public opinion. Again, what's interesting, I was told by my FBI source that they provided a copy of Virginia Jeffrey's book while she was alive, so pre April to the Royal Family. So they knew what was coming and yet nothing was done. And it's always this. It's only ever in reaction to events. And, you know, there is this big question. I mean, the King got heckled in October. That was another factor in terms of him, you know, taking the title away from Andrew, getting eventually out of Royal Lodge. But, but, you know, the question that's still being asked, what did the Royal Family know and when did they know it and what did they do about it? And if they have been protecting Andrew, they've been aware of. Of what he's been up to for a long time. That's going to be very damaging to. And I think, you know, this is the, the thing the King needs to answer. I mean, this is a story that's been in the Press for 15 years. There have been particularly highlights. One in 2010, when Seraph was caught selling access to Andrew for half a million pounds, the 2022 Selman Turk High Court case, in which 1.3 million pounds was being fenced through Ferguson and Andrew's accounts which couldn't be explained. I mean, even when my book came out in August though, you know, there was some, some controversy. Nothing happened. They didn't actually address some of the things that I'd raised. And so it's really only with the, the releases in the, at the end of last year and through this year that really anything has been done. But even then I think it's performative. It's saying, you know, let the law take its course, but at the same time I'm hearing stories of policemen being reminded of their obligations of confidentiality, etc. So it's all window dressing. What goes on in public and what is happening behind the scenes, I think are two very different things.
- [45:26]
Tara Palmieri
Yep. And we also went to Sarah Ferguson for comment. She's not responded. And we understand that you've made attempts to contact the palace on the allegations against Andrew. I'm still in shock that in 2009 Sarah tried to go into business with Jeffrey Epstein. Sarah Ferguson was talking about giving him a 51% stake in mother's Army, a company and personal brand that aimed to help amplify the voices of mothers all over the world. I mean it's shocking to me.
- [46:00]
Andrew Lowney
Again she uses charities, you know, for basically financial reasons. And I mean again the relationship with Howard Lutnick, you know, who gave her free accommodation and officers in the two towers, but also was involved in these money making operations. You know, Andrew was going to lend credibility to a lot of these operations which would actually bring Canto Fitzgerald quite a lot of money.
- [46:23]
Tara Palmieri
Howard Lutnick is our Commerce Secretary by the way, who denied that he had continued a relationship with Jeffrey Epstein after 2009. But it appears that his relationship continues to at least 2012. I want to talk about the COVID up, the death now. We have this letter where Jeffrey Epstein is supposedly saying, you know, goodbye. This is it for me. It's his suicide note. Do you think it's real?
- [46:47]
Andrew Lowney
Yes. I don't believe the letter is genuine. I mean we don't know the provenance. It's odd why it suddenly appeared it's not the way that Epstein written. But you know, I think there are also questions now about the suicide. I mean putting aside the suicide note, I mean there's, there's evidence from Michael Baden that the, the, the sort of forensic pathologist that this was a homicide rather than a suicide. We've got inmates saying that he couldn't possibly have committed suicide given the height of the beds and the sheets. And we've got mysterious payments to the two last Guards who saw him, who mysteriously fell asleep, both at the same time. When someone came into a cell, we think, or when he committed suicide. We've got lots of shredding of documents. We've got cameras that fail. We've got people with testimony saying that he wasn't as suicidal. I think, you know, there was this concern that he was about to spill the beans and therefore, you know, he could prove to be rather dangerous. And I think, you know, the fact that he wrote as well a few days before he died doesn't suggest he was committing suicide, but that he might himself be suicided. And there's a whole series of people who've died, mysterious circumstances through, through suicide in prison.
- [48:03]
Tara Palmieri
Right. I mean, prisons supposedly are designed so that this won't happen, right?
- [48:07]
Andrew Lowney
Yes. I mean you're supposed to be safe in prison. And, and you know, again, interesting, interesting things. Cell mates had moved out of, of the cell. No one was disciplined. You know, this was pretty embarrassing to have a high level prisoner like that who was able to commit suicide. You know, lots and lots of things just don't add up. And you know, Torah Noel Tover. Noel, who's one of the guards, I think has just given some testimony. But again, her testimony doesn't really make sense. You know, she talks about these quite large payments which are, I think enough to buy a car, were for overtime. So, you know, I think there's a lot more still to come out about some Epstein's death.
- [48:47]
Tara Palmieri
Right. You write that According to an FBI report on July 24, this is just shortly before he kills himself. In the Epstein files, he met a prison psychologist insisting he had, quote, no interest in killing himself and that it would be crazy, his words, to commit suicide. I have a life and I want to go back to living my life. And I even Alan Dershowitz himself thought that he would be able to get off. Alan Dershowitz was his lawyer?
- [49:12]
Andrew Lowney
Yes, absolutely. It doesn't ring true. I mean, you know, he's an art. I mean talking to victims, lawyers. I mean everyone said that, you know, he, he thought he was going to get out of this. He, he'd managed to get out of everything before he had expensive lawyers. It was the whole start of the process and it just doesn't make sense. So, you know, whether we'll ever get to the full, the full story and who, if he was killed, who killed him is, you know, is really interesting. I mean, there's talk that was Mossad agents, there's suggestions, a whole series of quite important people in American politics. Who may have been behind it, or some of the people, the co conspirators, you know, who knows? But maybe something will emerge, you know, some documentation or some testimony that will shed some light on this.
- [50:01]
Tara Palmieri
I remember from the 60 Minutes documentary that was done shortly afterwards because there were so many inconsistencies in this. Former police detective Herman Weisberg, you write about this, told cbs, after studying the pictures, quote, it appeared that the scene was, for lack of a better term, staged a bit. And we know that Epstein's brother Mark has been trying to prove that he was killed. He hired an independent pathologist, but the body was moved, which makes it difficult. Why do you think Mark is so intent on proving this, that his brother was killed? Is it for insurance money? Does he want to sue the jail? I mean, or is it something else? I'm always suspicious when it comes to him.
- [50:43]
Andrew Lowney
Yeah, I just don't know. I mean, I actually had lunch with him in New York in December and he was saying at that stage that he was going to, to produce a team of experts that were going to, to prove that it was murder. But he hasn't done so. I mean, I think he was talking about February being the date. Well, here we are in May and nothing has appeared. But who knows, you know, again, you know, the full story of Mark Epstein and Jeffrey. I mean, he says that they were quite, you know, remained quite close, but hardly saw each other. But, you know, you know, there were several people who were quite close to Jeffrey who have, you know, accountants and lawyers and people who we, I don't think we've really got the full story from yet. And I find it extraordinary that people who are working for Epstein haven't been subpoenaed to talk. I mean, the Sarah Kellons and Leslie Grofs and others, it seems extraordinary that they are allowed just to sort of operate quietly and live their lives without anything, any, any questioning whatsoever.
- [51:43]
Tara Palmieri
I also am really bothered that it's all happening behind closed doors. You know, I, something you, that you mentioned in the book that I don't think has gotten enough attention is that Bill Barr, who was Trump's Attorney General at the time, visited Epstein in prison. I mean, what do we think they talked about? And it's, it's, it's interesting to me too, because as we know, Epstein worked for Bill Barr's father at Dalton, has
- [52:10]
Andrew Lowney
a background in intelligence, as did the father, I think. So it is extraordinary that, that, you know, that's never been explained. It seems a very sort of obvious thing in a very public thing to do. And as you say, no one's ever been explained what they talked about, why he came there. Just one of the, you know, one of the various mysteries that still surround that, that, that death.
- [52:33]
Tara Palmieri
I want to go back to the fallout for the royal family. We know that the princesses and Andrew's daughters, they have profited from their role in the royal family. What is to come of them? I mean, they haven't done anything wrong themselves, but this can't be great.
- [52:54]
Andrew Lowney
Well, I mean, there's a big PR campaign to sort of paint them as innocent victims of their parents. I think that's not entirely the case. I mean, we have plenty of instances of money being found, their accounts that they couldn't explain from people they didn't know. And I mean, large sums that you wouldn't, you know, you would have noticed. You know, there's plenty of evidence of them supporting the. Promoting banks, for example, in the Middle east and various organizations and charities, which presumably they were paid to do. And that's why I think it's so important to have a proper royal register where, you know, people like that do have to declare their business interest in the way that members of Parliament in this country have to, so that there, you know, there is transparency about what they're doing. You know, they're entitled to business careers. But I think if there's a sense that it, this, these, that they're making money off the back of their royal titles and these, these events are done not by Beatrice Mosey, but by Her Royal Highness Princess Beatrice, then, you know, I think that that does. Does raise questions.
- [53:57]
Tara Palmieri
Sounds familiar, huh?
- [53:58]
Andrew Lowney
So I, I think we will find more will come out about the daughters in the coming months and the fact that they were asked for an audience.
- [54:05]
Tara Palmieri
It sounds familiar.
- [54:07]
Andrew Lowney
Yeah, well, exactly. You know, I, I think there's so much that could still come out about them, and I think that's very unwise of the royal family to hold them too tight for the moment because I think there could be embarrassing disclosures which could have ramifications for the reputation of the family as a whole.
- [54:22]
Tara Palmieri
What's Andrew's current state of mind? What is he doing right now?
- [54:26]
Andrew Lowney
Well, I mean, from people I've talked to, he doesn't seem to be as upset as you would expect. He kind of has his quiet daily life. He's always been a bit of a couch potato. He watches TV and he no longer is able to. To go out riding, but he goes for walks, he's talking to lawyers. He's not really Having people visit him, relationship with his family seems to be more difficult. I mean, his own daughter didn't tell him directly that she was pregnant. But I think it's a waiting game. You know, he must be wondering if charges will be brought. He doesn't think they will, but he must be wondering what is likely to happen. And, you know, you saw those pictures of him after being to the police station in February. You know, here was a man who I think perhaps, certainly on that day was really coming to realizing how serious a position he was in.
- [55:18]
Tara Palmieri
Yeah. Again, what does this mean for Charles in his reign?
- [55:22]
Andrew Lowney
Well, I think the feeling is, you know, that the Queen has passed the buck to Charles and William doesn't want Charles to pass the buck to him. He wants this dealt with in the current reign, if necessary. Charles takes the. And William inherits a throne which is a clean slate and all the stables have been cleaned. And I think that's not going to happen. And I think that, you know, William is. Sees the reputational damage. He doesn't want to be tarred with this brush and he would like his father to deal with it. But. And I suspect there are conversations going on like that the whole time. But Charles may feel obligated to his mother. He may have done some deal with Andrew to protect the daughters as the price of getting Andrew out of Royal Lodge. Who knows? You know, what, what's. We're getting very mixed messages about what's
- [56:07]
Tara Palmieri
happening all the while. Andrew is playing World of Warcraft video games.
- [56:14]
Andrew Lowney
Yes. Well, I mean, he's always enjoyed video games. I mean, he, you know, he likes, you know, violent films. He would take date nights, he would take girls to sort of Rambo and Top Gun. So he's, he's not a very sophisticated person. He's not a group reader. He doesn't have a huge hint to land. And so I think it must be difficult. I understand that he often is still in his dressing gown at lunchtime. You know, he's become a bit of a slob. He's kind of lost a sort of purpose and discipline in his life, which he had.
- [56:46]
Tara Palmieri
Yeah. Well, Andrew, thank you so much for your time. This was fascinating. Go out, buy the book, you can finally get the paperback in, in the United States and in Canada. I found it to be fascinating. I had to read it, you know, via PDF, but get the hard copy. This is history and it's happening every day. And I have a feeling you're going to either write another edition or you're going to have more chapters to add.
- [57:11]
Andrew Lowney
I'm going to do a new book, a new book called Untitled, which will tell the full story of the fall from Grace.
- [57:19]
Tara Palmieri
Exactly. Actually, Hamilton asked. He said, I'm proud to have been one of the first to listen to the audiobook in the States and support the book. Will the new chapter be automatically added to the audiobook on Audible?
- [57:34]
Andrew Lowney
Yes, it will. Absolutely. It will just be just added automatically. And I've read it again and we've made a few small corrections. I think I got the data, I got the gap between Andrew, Princess Diana wrong, for example. So we've made a few Twitter tweaks and then added these 40 pages which will be there on any audio you've already bought.
- [57:58]
Tara Palmieri
Okay, well, thank you so much for your time, Andrew and everyone. You can support this show. You can support my my independent journalism, and you can support Andrew by going out and buy the book. Hit the subscribe button if you're watching this. Tell your friends all about it. This is the kind of important investigative journalism into corruption at every single level. And we're doing this independently and hope that you will support us in this fearless journalism. Thanks, Andrew.
- [58:27]
Andrew Lowney
Great. Very nice to talk to you.
- [58:30]
Tara Palmieri
Of course. Thank you.
- [58:32]
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