The GOP Mutiny Begins: Why Women in the Party Turned on Speaker Johnson—Starting With Epstein with Annie Karni

Summary

The Tara Palmeri Show — Episode Summary

Episode Title: The GOP Mutiny Begins: Why Women in the Party Turned on Speaker Johnson—Starting With Epstein
Air Date: December 7, 2025
Host: Tara Palmeri
Guest: Annie Karni, Capitol Hill Correspondent, The New York Times

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Overview

In this episode, Tara Palmeri sits down with New York Times reporter Annie Karni to dissect the growing internal revolt against House Speaker Mike Johnson within the Republican Party, with a particular focus on the outspoken role of GOP women. The discussion covers the origins and implications of this mutiny—from Johnson’s handling of the high-profile Epstein vote to cultural and gender dynamics in GOP leadership—and the prospects for the party’s future as frustration mounts on Capitol Hill.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The GOP Revolt Against Speaker Mike Johnson

• Unprecedented Public Criticism:
  Multiple Republican lawmakers, especially women, are voicing their discontent on the record—a rarity in congressional politics.
  • "The floodgates are clearly unleashed...this isn't like on backgrounds, off the record, without your name...this is just a full on willing to attack him publicly under your name." — Annie Karni [06:21]
• Not Limited to Factions:
  The dissent cuts across the party, not just the Freedom Caucus or moderates.
• Political Ambitions and Senioritis:
  Key critics (e.g., Elise Stefanik, Nancy Mace) are pursuing governorships, making them less restrained in criticizing leadership.
  • "It's like senioritis in the house for these people who are not coming back." — Annie Karni [07:53]

2. The Epstein Vote: Catalyst for Dissent

• Personal Stakes for GOP Women:
  Several GOP women, including Boebert and Mace, resisted Trump's and Johnson’s pressure over the Epstein documents release—partly motivated by their own experiences with sexual harassment and assault.
  • "You can't discount...the life experiences that members bring to issues that also help them form where they're going..." — Annie Karni [08:59]
• Moment of Defiance:
  These women held firm against extraordinary pressure, forcing a vote Johnson hoped to avoid and driving open criticism of his leadership.

3. Gender and Cultural Clashes within GOP Leadership

• Johnson's Traditionalism:
  Johnson’s evangelical background and public comments on traditional gender roles have created a perception among some women that he is dismissive of their input.
  • "Culturally...they just feel like Johnson, an evangelical Christian from the south...has a traditional outlook on gender roles...there's just a cultural issue...they're not really able to communicate with him or feel like he listens to them." — Annie Karni [09:29]
• Notable Quotes & Controversies:
  • Johnson and his wife compared men’s and women’s thinking to "waffles" and "spaghetti and meatballs," respectively, suggesting women are less able to compartmentalize (from a Katie Miller podcast). — [11:38]
  • He said he’d trust the only female member of House leadership, Lisa McLean, to cook Thanksgiving dinner, raising eyebrows with other GOP women.

4. Feminism and Ambition Amidst Conservatism

• Contradiction in Terms:
  Palmeri points out the paradox of ambitious, career-driven Republican women disliking the "feminist" label, yet embodying many of its characteristics.
  • "To me, it seems like hypocrisy because a lot of these women sound to me like feminists...Elise Stefanik would probably jump out of her skin if I said...‘you're a feminist.'" — Tara Palmeri [13:24]
• The "Modern Feminist" Label:
  Even figures like Marjorie Taylor Greene have been described (by others) as "modern feminists" for their independence within the party.

5. Johnson’s Weak Base of Support

• Perceived as a Trump Proxy:
  Johnson is widely seen as installed and protected by Trump, lacking an organic base among his colleagues.
  • "He didn't—Trump got him elected...he has it because...he has Trump's support." — Annie Karni [18:48]
• Short Lifespan of GOP Speakers:
  The history of quick turnover in GOP leadership is fueling speculation about Johnson’s chances.
  • "Republican speakers generally have short lives. Like the minute you get elected, it's kind of a sand hourglass..." — Annie Karni [31:00]

6. Broader Malaise and Dysfunction in the House

• Lack of Achievements:
  Members are frustrated by the lack of legislative progress, failed redistricting efforts, and extended recesses.
  • "They want to be able to show their voters, you know, we have achievements...and he's kind of put the House on recess for eight weeks." — Annie Karni [17:56]
• Anger Lacks Focused Target:
  Frustration with Trump is redirected toward Johnson since direct anger against Trump is politically risky.

7. Future Scenarios: Who Could Replace Johnson?

• No Clear Alternative:
  Despite widespread dissatisfaction, the lack of a viable replacement keeps Johnson in his role. Tom Emmer is the only name occasionally floated.
• Not Likely to Remain if GOP Loses the House:
  Johnson is unlikely to be kept on as Minority Leader should the party lose its majority.
  • "No, I think once you're out, you're out." — Annie Karni [23:00]

8. What’s Next for GOP Women and the Party?

• More Retirements Possible:
  Although many threaten to quit, immediate departures are unlikely due to party pressure and norm expectations.
  • "I know a lot of people want to [leave]...the place runs on vibes. If it becomes, like, acceptable...maybe. But...there'll be so much pressure for them not to do that..." — Annie Karni [24:11]
• Backlash to the “Women’s Revolt” Narrative:
  Some GOP women (e.g., Claudia Tenney, Lisa McLean, Mary Miller) have pushed back, publicly defending Johnson’s leadership.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Trump jokes to people, 'I’m the Speaker and the President'...It's not really like a lot of people don’t really think that’s such a joke. They're like, yeah, pretty much.” — Annie Karni [16:40]
• “Women may be tougher than men, some might say.” — Tara Palmeri [28:44]
• “She [Marjorie Taylor Greene] calls him weak. She attacks him publicly. She stands up to him. She has no respect for him, clearly.” — Annie Karni [29:46]

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Important Timestamps

• Discussion of Johnson’s leadership, GOP women’s revolt: [3:36–8:59]
• Epstein vote as catalyst: [8:26–9:29]
• Johnson’s views on women & gender roles: [10:48–13:24]
• Feminism and conservative women: [13:24–15:48]
• Johnson as a Trump proxy, Speaker instability: [16:33–18:48]
• House dysfunction, lack of productivity: [17:56–18:40]
• Prospective replacements & internal dynamics: [20:05–22:29]
• Retirement rumors and party pressures: [23:08–24:17]
• Impact and aftermath of Epstein vote: [25:17–28:12]
• Assessment of Johnson’s mismanagement: [29:24–30:24]
• Pushback from Johnson’s women allies: [30:54–31:15]

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Conclusion

This episode offers a rare, unvarnished look at the mounting discontent toward Speaker Mike Johnson inside the GOP, fueled notably by outspoken Republican women with little to lose. Cultural, political, and personal tensions are boiling over in the party’s House caucus, and while Johnson’s grip is loosening, the lack of an obvious successor may be the only thing keeping him in the chair. The discussion highlights how personal experiences—from trauma to professional ambition—shape political battles, as well as the subtle (and sometimes not-so-subtle) gender politics influencing today’s Republican Party.

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Transcript

[Tara Palmeri]

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[Annie Carney]

Like they're going to lose the House and he's in charge of the House. So you know, Republican speakers generally have short lives. Like the minute you get elected, it's kind of a sand hourglass. Like how much time you have till they they like to eat their own.

[Tara Palmeri]

Welcome to the Tara Palmeri shows. Speaker Mike Johnson is losing his grip on the Republican conference. And it's the Republican women who are screaming the loudest about it. Congressman Elise Stefanik, she called him a habitual liar. Nancy May said she's particularly annoyed at the way he treats women. And Marjorie Taylor Greene, she just up and quit, but not before calling him a weak man. There are questions now over how long he can hold on to the Speaker's gavel. There are so many complaints about his leadership and they are growing every single day. So many Republican members are now threatening to quit. And so much of this anger, it goes back to his handling of the Epstein vote and how he bullied so many members to not vote for the discharge petition. Of course, he was doing that on behalf of President Trump. So to discuss all of this and more, the the complaints, the who else if not the Speaker Mike Johnson and the Trump and Epstein of it all, I have New York Times's Capitol Hill correspondent Annie Carney on the show. She has a recent piece called Republican Anger Erupts at Johnson as party Frets about the future that everyone is forwarding around the Capitol. So I wanted you to get the inside scoop, what everyone is really saying about Speaker Johnson and his leadership. Take a listen here. It's an interesting if you're anything like me, then you hate running around from store to store to store for holiday gifting. But you still want to get people that you love something beautiful, something timeless, something that they will wear for years. And that's why this year I'm going to quince from Mongolian cashmere sweaters that only cost $50 to Italian wool coats. Everything is premium quality at a price that actually makes sense. I personally wear a lot of their silk tops on this show because they're so reasonably priced and they're made with premium materials from ethical, trusted factories priced so far below luxury brands. I don't know how they do it. Their craftsmanship is shown in every single detail. The stitching, the fit, the drape. It's elevated. It's timeless. It's, it's clothing you'll wear forever. So if you want to find gifts that you'll want to keep for yourself, Then head to quint.comtara for free shipping on your order and 365 days of return. They're now available in Canada, too. That's Quince Q-U-I-N C E.com Tara T A R A to get free shipping and 365 days of returns. Quince.com Tara Annie, thanks so much for joining the show. It's actually a very big treat for me to have you on as my.

[Annie Carney]

Former colleague twice in her webinar.

[Tara Palmeri]

We worked together at the New York Post when we were in our 20s and then politico in our 30s. Now you're at the New York Times covering the Hill.

And you've been doing amazing work. And I always look forward to your pieces because you always seem to get the human angle in politics, which I think a lot of people forget that a lot of this is about ego and personality and grievance and often not about what they promised the electorate, their constituents when they get there. You seem to really understand the madhouse, as in the name of your new book, which you should all go out and buy. Annie gets Annie Gets It. And I think, you know, we probably learned that at the New York Post, all those signs that said news doesn't have to be boring to be news.

[Annie Carney]

Yeah, I learned a lot, a lot at the New York Post that has stuck with me over the years.

Yeah, great lessons there.

[Tara Palmeri]

So, yeah, so we're all comes full circle. But you were at the White House when we were together and now you're on the Hill. Which do you prefer?

[Annie Carney]

I have had more fun covering the Hill, the White House, you know, it's kind of exactly what people told me to expect. The White House is a great job to have done more than to do. You learn a lot. But it's such a controlled environment. There's probably half a dozen people who talk to the press and we and everyone sort of talks to the same people. And there's they control the story of the day, much more so than on the Hill where there is 435 members and there's a lot of different there's just more opportunity for enterprise on the Hill for seeing a story that not everyone else is doing that day. I mean, the White House reporters still do that, but I find it easier to do on the Hill and to find an original angle or to find original people to talk to. I think it's much more also, everyone's.

[Tara Palmeri]

Just, like, clamoring to be heard. You've got so many type A personalities there. They're the biggest. They're the mayors of their towns. You know what I mean? They're the biggest fish, and they just want to be heard. And you're at the New York Times, which is like the zenith of publicity for a lot of these people. I noticed that in your recent piece, which we're going to talk about, because I absolutely loved it, that a member sat down for a photograph with the New York Times in a piece that was really critical of the speaker of the House. I mean, it's about Republican anger at him and the idea that he might not last that long. And it's.

[Annie Carney]

Yes. Yeah, they're not. I mean, the floodgates are clearly unleashed. I mean, these Republicans are going on the record, you know, sitting for a photo, you know, not. This is. This isn't like on backgrounds, off the record, without your name on it, sniping about the Speaker. This is like just a full on willing to attack him publicly under your name from many. And also from many different. It's not just like the hard right Freedom Caucus. It's not just the moderates. It's not just the women. It's kind of.

[Tara Palmeri]

Exactly. And I thought. I thought that was super interesting. So even when you read this piece online, Republican anger erupts at Johnson.

[Annie Carney]

You'll see.

[Tara Palmeri]

I mean, everyone's. These are the kind of pieces you'd usually have to get people. You could get them maybe on background to speak about leadership. You certainly don't get Democrats yet on the record, really talking about Hakeem Jeffries that way. And he's only been a leader for two years as well. But, yeah, they're willing to let it rip on Johnson, which I think just shows what type of precarious position he's in right now. I love, though, that it's the ladies that are revolting. Although I find it to be a little rich that the ones that are the loudest voices, Nancy Mace, Elise Stefanik, they're running for governors, Elise running for governor in New York, Nancy's running for governor in South Carolina. So it's not like they really have to deal with the guy much anymore.

[Annie Carney]

Yeah.

[Tara Palmeri]

Shiv them on the way out. Right. Like, they don't care.

[Annie Carney]

Right. Well, I think a few. Yeah, I think that's fair. I mean, they have. It's like senioritis in the house for these people who are not coming back. Right. There's, like, you have to think, like, what is their analysis of doing this? Are they trying to gain credit on the right for being willing to attack, like, Elise Stefanik was attacking him from the right, like, trying to prove that she's. But I also. I think she's also just personally mad at him over some things. But the women have been.

A fertile beat, sub beat on the Hill for a while now. They. I mean, I think it. It started really on the Epstein vote, which you covered so intensely. But the three, I mean, it was Lauren Boebert, Nancy Mace, and Marjorie Taylor Greene who.

Stuck strong under intense pressure from Johnson and from Trump to remove themselves from that discharge petition and didn't. And forced Johnson's hand on bringing a vote to the floor that he really didn't want to bring.

That was driven partly by their own experiences. Two of those three women have talked openly about their own experience with sexual assault and her harassment. And so you can't discount. Just like the life experiences that members bring to issues that also help them form where they're going to be as much as their political ambitions. And.

Where was I going with this thought? They also feel like, culturally, I've. A lot of them told me this. Culturally, they just feel like Johnson, an evangelical Christian from the south who has been vocal. He used to do a podcast with his wife where they really talked a lot about, like, the roles that men and women should play, the importance of marriage, the importance of a woman's role in marriage and raising the kids. And. And he has a traditional outlook on gender roles. And. And women, some of the women who serve with him in the house say that they feel that in conversations with him that. That there's just a cultural issue where he's. They're not really able to communicate with him or feel like he listens to them. And that is another thing. You know, I think Elise Stefanik is publicly lashing out at him in part because she doesn't feel like she's gonna get her way in a private conversation with him. They don't feel like he's listening to them. But also, this is. Yeah, I think you're definitely right to bring up the fact that these women have nothing to lose, are not looking for a long career in the House.

But Some of the other. And then Kevin Kiley is a member who. From California, who's been really vocal about how much he's upset with Johnson. He is going to lose his seat next year in redistricting. Yeah.

[Tara Palmeri]

Yeah. I want to get back to this whole idea of. Of the evangelical Mike Johnson and his views on women, because you put this in your piece. For example, he said in a recent interview that women weren't able to compartmentalize their thoughts and that the member who he would trust most to cook him a Thanksgiving dinner was Representative Lisa McLean. Yeah.

[Annie Carney]

That is harsh. By the way.

[Tara Palmeri]

All these women are obviously not women who see themselves as Betty Homemaker, because they are leaders running for Congress.

[Annie Carney]

Are not probably, like, doing all the cooking for Thanksgiving dinner. They have huge jobs and a lot of travel. But no, that was. So that was on Katie Miller's podcast. We've got that podcast.

He and his wife were both said that men and women's brains are just differently. They compared men's brands to waffles that have little compartments for different thoughts and women's brains to, like, a bowl of spaghetti and meatballs. He's saying they're messy.

[Tara Palmeri]

He's saying they're messy and they're unable to contain their emotions.

[Annie Carney]

So his wife made the spaghetti and the waffle comparison, and he agreed with it. And then Katie Miller and.

Mike Johnson's wife Kelly, were talking about how they can't turn off their brains at night. They will have ruminating thoughts all night if they're stressed about something. And Mike Johnson was like, see, that's because your brains are different. That's such bullshit.

[Tara Palmeri]

Okay, first of all, I sleep like a baby, and I know men that stay up all night.

[Annie Carney]

Right. I think women are actually fairly good at compartmentalizing. But it's. What. And then. And then the Thanksgiving dinner thing, he was asked by Katie, which member would you trust to cook you Thanksgiving dinner? So it was kind of. I mean, I don't.

And he said, Lisa McLean.

The Lisa McLean thing was brought up to me by two members who noticed it and just thought, like, of course he picked a woman when asked about a cooking question. But I don't know if he. It was kind of like a throwaway question in an interview, kind of a silly question. I don't know that he put so much thought into naming Lisa. But it stuck out to some of the women members that he chose the only woman in leadership in the House as the one he would want.

[Tara Palmeri]

The only one man in leadership, by the way.

[Annie Carney]

One woman in leadership was the one he named. So I stuck that in the story just because it was. I noticed it when I listened to the podcast, kind of like, oh, but make too much of it. But when it was brought up to me by a few female members, I put it in the story because it really so interesting.

[Tara Palmeri]

To me, though, like, all of. To me, it seems like hypocrisy because a lot of these women sound to me like feminists.

They would hate. Elise Stefanik would probably jump out of her skin if I said to her, you're a feminist. You are a Harvard graduate. You are running for governor in New York.

You are like, you believe in equal rights for women, women and men. You wouldn't be running against a man. You know, it's. Well, she's running against a woman, Kathy Hoch, but still he has run against men in her. If she didn't think she was equal or if not better than those people.

[Annie Carney]

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[Tara Palmeri]

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[Annie Carney]

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[Tara Palmeri]

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[Annie Carney]

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[Tara Palmeri]

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[Annie Carney]

Mark, is a mochi member compensated for his story?

Oh, yeah. No, I think Elise Stefanik has a healthy ego. I think she thinks she's smarter than her colleagues. And.

This is always an issue for women with conservative values who are ambitious and career driven. Right. Like Elise Stefanik. She wanted to be picked for Trump's vice president, which means she looks in the mirror and maybe thinks, I could be president one day. That's a healthy ego and that's a healthy, driven person. But with conservatives, you also are like, conservative values.

Sometimes lead to infringing upon women's rights.

And being, you know, so that's like a tension for conservative political women, for sure, the values that they espouse and what they. Their own ambitions. But I'd say that.

You know, I wrote a profile of Marjorie Taylor Greene a little before she completely broke with her party. And Brian Glenn, her boyfriend, I quoted him in the story calling her a modern feminist. Yeah, yeah.

But, yeah, the. I would say that the women right now with Johnson, it's certainly them leading the charge. They're kind of not afraid to break with him. But it's indicative of a larger overarching frustration and depression with his leadership and with how the House is doing. I think that's largely driven by the fact that they feel like they're going to lose the House and he's in charge of the House. So, you know, Republican speakers generally have short lives. Like the minute you get elected, it's kind of a sand hourglass, like how much time you have till they, they like to eat their own. They, you know, they get rid of their leaders fairly quickly. And I think that we've really, since they came back from the eight week break that Johnson put them on during.

[Tara Palmeri]

The show because of the Epstein scene.

[Annie Carney]

Just like boiling. Yeah, because of the Epstein, which means he's just a tool of Trump.

[Tara Palmeri]

You wrote this in one of your pieces, by the way, which I loved. You had a background quote of saying that Trump was telling people that he is both the speaker and the President.

[Annie Carney]

Which was just gold, right? Yeah.

Yeah. Trump jokes to people, I'm the speaker and the President. And it's not really like a lot of people don't really think that's such a joke. They're like, yeah, pretty much, you know, in, in the Katie Miller podcast, Johnson also had a quote saying, I like to joke that I'm not really the Speaker. Again, like kidding on the square. That's how people feel. Like there's not leadership. Let's just tick through the issues that they're upset about, like redistricting. They feel like he didn't do anything to save them. And not only the people like Kevin, Kylie, who are literally going to lose their seats, but incumbent members hate redistricting, even when it just changes their district and they can still win. But it's a new district. It's new voters to get to know they know how to win their districts. They don't like having to learn a new district. So they're upset about redistricting that he didn't really do anything on. He let the White House just run that show. They're upset. Moderates are really, really want this ACA tax credit extension that they think they lose their seats without doing something on that. He's resisting that. They didn't like going home for eight weeks and not doing anything. Like they want to be able to show their voters, you know, we have achievements. We control the Senate, the House and the White House and we achieved some things. And he's kind of put the House on recess for eight weeks. And they are frustrated. A lot of these people actually got elected because they want to do something and they feel, I think pretty Depressed about the state of, like, why am I also, like, these jobs are hard. They're kind of thankless. It's a lot of travel and it's like, I'm killing.

[Tara Palmeri]

They haven't passed any bills. Like, how many bills have they actually really passed?

[Annie Carney]

I don't know, but it's not, it's like, it's not a very productive Congress.

So. Yeah. And, and another thing that I've been reminded of by members and talking about Johnson is.

He didn't Trump got him elected. Like, without Trump getting him over the finish line and supporting him, he would not have the gavel today. Like, he has it because, you know, he has Trump support. Kevin McCarthy, in contrast, like, was in leadership for a very long time, built that House majority, got those people elected, raised money for them, years of like building and recruiting. So he had, yes, he had a band of members who ultimately ousted him, but he also had like hundreds of members who actually felt they owed him. And like, and there's not a lot of that feeling with Johnson who sort of came in out of nowhere that they owe him that, that they owe him their elections, that he really helped them get there. So there's not that thing that to fall back on, which makes. Once the anger erupts, it's like.

[Tara Palmeri]

And the guy who pressured them into voting for Johnson, Donald Trump, hasn't done anything for them. Like, from what I've heard, there's just been a lot of complaints that members feel like they're being pushed around and they don't even get like the, you know, handshake time at the White House kind of glad handing stuff that they like. Right.

[Annie Carney]

I still get that sometimes. But yeah, they don't get that. And I do think that these members, like, they need, they're angry and they can't really be angry with Trump. So. Johnson's a good point.

[Tara Palmeri]

That's a good point. Okay, so who else? I mean, that's the other problem. If not Johnson, who.

[Annie Carney]

I mean, this is why he's still there. I keep hearing from people that it's. They feel like it's a big eye roll about his leadership, but, like, there's not a real obvious alternative, which is why they won't get rid of him. I have heard recently Tom Emmer's name being floated as someone who would have the votes. He's the number.

Yeah, he ran for speaker in that crazy period where everyone ran for speaker and no one got it. And he did.

[Tara Palmeri]

Right.

[Annie Carney]

Probably the worst of anyone. Trump, like shift him at the end. But he has recovered his relationship with Trump. That's now like two years ago. Dynamics have shifted maybe, I don't know. I don't think that Johnson's getting ousted like tomorrow. But.

They there I have started hearing names of like, is there another option?

[Tara Palmeri]

What about police? The number two to me.

[Annie Carney]

I haven't heard him mention. I mean that's the thing though. The anger is really at Johnson. It's not at all of leadership. So look, these guys, you know, are always want to be speaker. I mean he's like lying low waiting to their. That's how we close this card. Yeah, they're. They probably want an opening. We know they wanted to speak or they jumped at it when they had an opportunity two years ago. I.

Most people think Johnson won't last the term either because of being ousted or because of. They'll just lose the majority. But I think right now I'm still thinking it'll be more likely the latter. And, and Trump's a huge factor. The thing is that I'm interested in is the floodgates have really opened since the Epstein vote with people on the record, as you were saying, lashing out of him. And Trump reads the news and he doesn't like weakness. So I would say that Johnson, like Trump, will see that they are not afraid to attack publicly. And that could be problematic for Johnson and his relationship with Trump. But for now he's proven himself to be a loyal soldier. So I don't, I haven't heard of a rift between Trump and Johnson and that is his most important thing to keep.

[Tara Palmeri]

You think they would keep him as minority leader?

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[Annie Carney]

No, I think once you're out, you're out. Yeah, yeah. Oh, you mean if they lose the house. God, no. Absolutely not. Zero. Zero. No.

[Tara Palmeri]

Okay. So everyone's been reporting that there will be more retirements. Do you think that's real? Are they just threats?

[Annie Carney]

Good question. I mean, I reported that Nancy Mays is so fed up she's going to meet with Marjorie Taylor Greene next week and she immediately went out and denied that, which I'm extremely confident in my reporting. I don't know that she'll actually leave, but I know she's thinking about it. I think that people hate it. They're really upset. There'll be huge pressure to avoid that because the majority, because they have such a slim majority, they can't lose many people. And it's extremely unusual to leave midterm if it's not for a sickness or for like, like you kind of owe it to your voters to finish out your term. It's like what Green did was, like, really shocking. I don't know. I know that a lot of people want to. I know that the place runs on vibes. If it becomes, like, acceptable to do, maybe. But I have a feeling.

I think we have to just wait and see. I think there'll be so much pressure for them not to do that and risk losing majority.

[Tara Palmeri]

Is the White House doing anything about this?

[Annie Carney]

Yeah.

[Tara Palmeri]

Are they at least trying to keep these members happier and not retiring?

[Annie Carney]

That's a good question.

You know, not recently. Not on any recent vote. There was.

Earlier this year. They did a lot of bringing members into the Oval photos, signed merch, like, all things that help keep members happy. And, like, they can send the photos back to their districts and.

Trump will call like, members brag. He calls me by my first name. But there hasn't been, you know, they were pressuring the people to get off the Epstein petition, but I haven't. They haven't been like working them on a big vote recently because they've been gone for so long. So, no, I haven't heard a lot of big charm offensive. Maybe it's what's needed. Yeah, there hasn't been one in a while.

[Tara Palmeri]

How much destruction has the Epstein vote caused to the Republican caucus?

[Annie Carney]

Well, I think they were saved. I mean, it was going to be a horrible vote, which is why they were doing everything in their power to avoid having it. That was going to be a disaster, like making them choose between crossing Trump or letting down their voters. And Trump saved them by announcing at the last minute, telling them to vote for it at the last minute. And then literally everyone except one.

Every member of Congress, Senate and House, except for one guy, Troy Nels, voted to release, who said he's not running again. So that made it easy. I mean, at the end of the day, it was just kind of sailed through. Now the question is, are they actually going to release files? I mean, yeah, no, I think there.

[Tara Palmeri]

Should be an investigation into the releasing of the files that Congress, if they were a true over, like, outbalance to the executive branch, would be overseeing, don't you think, to make sure that they're not withholding or redacting documents that are related to this SDNY investigation into Democrats related to Epstein. I mean do the Democrats even have the power to make sure that this oversight happens?

[Annie Carney]

I don't know.

[Tara Palmeri]

They're not in leadership so.

[Annie Carney]

They don't have subpoena power. Yeah but I think that the vote, the vote at the end of the day was not a big deal. They just kind of got through it all, voted unanimous, basically unanimously. And Trump said, I mean that's something they should be thankful to Trump for, that he saved them. What was going to be a really politically perilous vote by telling them just go.

[Tara Palmeri]

Gotta say I'm kind of proud of those survivors for holding an entire Congress. The fire, you know what I mean? That's a huge.

[Annie Carney]

I mean and the, the three of them, Mace Boebert and great Green is a Green doesn't really flip flop. She's always kind of in like if she says she's no on a cr, she usually no that not a great example. She's not as much of a flip flopper as a lot of these members who are say they're not for something and ultimately always vote for it. But Mace is a huge flip flopper.

[Tara Palmeri]

I thought for sure that with the, with South Carolina and wanting that endorsement that she would pull out.

[Annie Carney]

I was really watching that carefully. Like Trump could kill her governor's race by endorsing someone else and going hard after her. And she stayed strong. And Gilbert was under pressure like calling her personally. I mean and these are true, true Trump believer. Like she's a true. Bobert's a true Trump believer. And I was. I mean that was real pressure they were under and they resisted it and we have not seen. And what I found most interesting about that was like these three MAGA.

Lawmakers.

Stood up to Trump in a way that we have not seen any center leaning Republican who privately hates Trump ever stand up to him. It was these three, like hard right. Who actually stood up to him on something that really mattered and that was impressive to see and really surprising. And if it's the women, I'm telling you, you got to keep track of the women. The women are a fertile beat in Congress. They do interesting things.

[Tara Palmeri]

Women may be tougher than men, some might say.

[Annie Carney]

Yeah.

[Tara Palmeri]

Despite being characterized.

[Annie Carney]

Yeah, yeah. Definitely earned them especially mtg like some strange new respect from various corners who probably never took her seriously.

[Tara Palmeri]

Like Kevin McCarthy definitely courted her a lot he wanted. He knew she was gonna be the most difficult. So he took care to really nurture the Marjorie Taylor Greene needs. Whereas I don't I think Speaker Johnson thinks I could, you know, could care less about her. And he's probably mismanaged her. I don't think he's a good manager of humans in the same way.

[Annie Carney]

I agree. He's clearly mismanaged green. He's made an enemy of her. She tried to oust him last year. Yeah. And failed. But. But, yeah, he hasn't managed her at all. I mean, she calls him weak. She attacks him publicly. She stands up to him. She has no respect for him, clearly.

And, yeah, I mean, tending to. It's not an easy job. You have to tend to all these various members. But.

The women think that part of the reason he hasn't tended to them is a cultural issue about professional women. That's what they are chalking up to. And let me. Just to be fair, you know, when I was working on this, I had a lot of women who serve in the House who are Johnson allies call me and tell me the opposite. So, like, let's just be clear. Like, I heard from Claudia Tenney from New York, Lisa McLean, the one who was tasked with Thanksgiving dinner, who says, you know, he's always leadership to my voice.

[Tara Palmeri]

Guy carries a lot of power.

[Annie Carney]

You don't want to mess with them. Yeah. But, like, oh, I thought it was funny after I wasn't the only one who. A few other people wrote the women's story also after I wrote it. And Mary Miller, like, just. Just put out a statement talking about how great Johnson is. So they're. They clearly are trying to get the women who support him to, like, be vocal and push back on this narrative that it's just like, these squeaky wheels. So I just to be in full fairness, like, I also heard from women who like him and think he's, like, a good leader. And listen, thank you for that.

[Tara Palmeri]

Full disclosure, Annie, I know you have to be out. We had a hard. So always love talking to you. I'd love to have you on the show more frequently. I'm a huge fan of your work. Every time I see it on X, I'm like, yes. And Annie Carney special again. So come back.

[Annie Carney]

Thank you.

Independent. Thank you.

[Tara Palmeri]

All right, thanks. That was another episode of the Tara Palmeri Show. Thanks so much for tuning in. As you can see, I am in a new location. I am starting to set up my set. So for all of you who watch this show on YouTube, you will start to see it evolve as I figure out where and how I will be recording. Thank you for all of your patience throughout the week. I know it wasn't a typical week, but if you like this show, please rate, subscribe and follow share it with all your friends. If you like my reporting, please go to tarapaulmieri.com that's T-A-R-A P A L M E R I.com and sign sign up for my newsletter, the Red Letter. If you become a paid subscriber, you will get my exclusive reporting straight to your inbox and it's a way to support my independent journalism. No corporate overlords here. I want to thank my producer Eric Abenate, I want to thank Abby Baker who does my social media and research, Daniel Rosen, my manager and Adam Stewart on the graphics. I'll be back again this week.

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